Edward Elliott wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Flash also behaves consistently cross-browser, cross/platform -- and
features cannot be disabled by the user.
^^
And that's a good thing? Maybe for Macromedia, not for us. This smells
like astroturf.
We don't need any proprietary junk to make a nice-look website:
http://www.csszengarden.com
You can navigate in this site with any kind of browser, even graphical
or text-based, like lynx.
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Ben Finney wrote:
SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I keep trying to understand why people like HTML/JS, I don't think I
am gonna understand.
It's fairly simple: HTML, CSS and JavaScript have all been
standardised independent of any single corporation, and are freely
implementable,
I would. Most people would, once they realize that shiny/flashy is
information too.
High production values affect value-determining centers of the brain,
bypassing the linguistic and logical centers. They make you understand
that the thing you're being presented is worth something.
Most of
SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But your brain doesn't care. It's got a shortcut to your wallet, and
the information on the screen is accessing that.
This was the most useful comment for me. I never fully considered that
Flash was aiming at a different part of the brain. HTML is
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
SamFeltus wrote:
Here is a visual argument,
http://samfeltus.com/swf/contact_globes.swf
Here's a text-based argument.
If I search Golge for gardener, Athens, GA then Google's spiders
won't have recorded your contact page. So I don't find you as a local
I guess for better or worse, Flash is a very different mindset and
approach to the web.
I do find it interesting that Flash folks readily will acknowledge that
Flash has shortcomings, yet anti-Flash folks seem to have great
difficulty acknowledging Flash's positive features over HTML. Such
SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I do find it interesting that Flash folks readily will acknowledge that
Flash has shortcomings, yet anti-Flash folks seem to have great
difficulty acknowledging Flash's positive features over HTML. Such
situations always make me suspicious Ludditism is at
SamFeltus enlightened us with:
I do find it interesting that Flash folks readily will acknowledge
that Flash has shortcomings yet anti-Flash folks seem to have great
difficulty acknowledging Flash's positive features over HTML.
I must say I've never seen a pro-Flash person acknowledging that
I don't agree with 99.9%, but the majority of Flash sites are done
poorly. Mine is certainly sub-optimal, :)
1. Loss of back button
Isn't this really a myth? A page with a time dimension, be it Flash,
HTML/JS or whatever, breaks the back button. A page without a time
dimension doesn't break
Perhaps the my question should be this, and don't get me wrong, I
REALLY like Python.
Perhaps Python is not a great language to focus on for someone with a
strong interest in Flash and little interest in HTML?
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SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As for the blind issue,that makes no sense to me. Is the suggestion
that we should give up using images in web sites since some people
can't see them. Might as well throw out the use of the img tag while
we are at it?
Img tags should always have alt text
Sybren Stuvel wrote:
Heiko Wundram enlightened us with:
And: the web is a platform to offer _information_. Not to offer
shiny graphics/sound [...]
Many would disagree...
Not me, but I know a lot of people that would.
I would. Most people would, once they realize that shiny/flashy is
SamFeltus wrote:
Here is a visual argument,
http://samfeltus.com/swf/contact_globes.swf
Here's a text-based argument.
If I search Golge for gardener, Athens, GA then Google's spiders
won't have recorded your contact page. So I don't find you as a local
gardener, so I don't hire you for my
SamFeltus wrote:
1. Loss of back button
Isn't this really a myth? A page with a time dimension, be it Flash,
HTML/JS or whatever, breaks the back button. A page without a time
dimension doesn't break the back button. Should we now and forever
more give up the time dimension to avoid
This has all been very helpful. I've been struggling for awhile on
which direction to go with computer programming. I realize the problem
with HTML and the P language family is that although it makes sense to
me, it doesn't really resonate with my perspective. Flash definitely
does. I finally
SamFeltus enlightened us with:
1. Loss of back button
Isn't this really a myth?
No, it isn't a myth. Pressing the back button is the action second
most performed in a browser, clicking a link being the first. People
want to go back from where they came.
A page with a time dimension, be it
SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am uncomfortable with the seperating of the code from the visual/time
element, as well as the lack of emphasis on the visual/time element.
Maybe you should buy a camcorder and make movies, instead of doing web
sites.
I am not a big Perl/PHP fan, I find
Nah, the world needs more Flashy WebSites, :) But I do renounce my
uglier criticisms of HTML. I realize now it is just a completely
different mindset, not a bad technology.
Python is far easier than PHP IMO. Especially if there is minimal
HTML, I mostly just want to get at a database and
Sybren Stuvel schreef:
SamFeltus enlightened us with:
1. Loss of back button
Isn't this really a myth?
No, it isn't a myth. Pressing the back button is the action second
most performed in a browser, clicking a link being the first. People
want to go back from where they came.
I don't even
Don't worry, you won't have to look if it makes you feel dirty...
:)
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SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I do find it interesting that Flash folks readily will acknowledge
that Flash has shortcomings, yet anti-Flash folks seem to have great
difficulty acknowledging Flash's positive features over HTML. Such
situations always make me suspicious Ludditism is at
I find it tiresome that Flash apologists believe technical
advantages
can overcome a need for open, community-driven, vendor-independent
standards.
:)
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None of you seem to know what you are talking about.
Flash should be used where one needs to use Flash, and HTML/JS/CSS
(+XML+XSLT) likewise.
Flash can play video. That is not possible w/ HTML/CSS/JS.
Flash also behaves consistently cross-browser, cross/platform -- and
most features cannot be
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Flash is like a 2 MB download that works in almost *every* browser
out there.
Except all the browsers on platforms Macromedia have not chosen to
support. And no-one else can implement it on those platforms, except
by guessing about the closed implementation
I am in agreement that open standards are better. I also wish the open
standards bodies would work more creatively, to bring us the most
advanced standards, and not some echo of yesterdays technology. But,
too me, saying No Flash is saying No Source if not Open Source. But,
for me, it is better
[EMAIL PROTECTED] enlightened us with:
None of you seem to know what you are talking about.
That's not a way to make friends. I very well know what I'm talking
about. None of the issues I've raised are negated by what you say, so
every single one still stands.
Flash also behaves consistently
SamFeltus schreef:
Here is a visual argument, I would love to see a list of AJAX and SVG
sites that display excellent graphics.
http://bacardimojito.com/main.swf
http://tokyoplastic.com/LF.swf
http://coolbreathpower.com/
http://www.peterjoel.com/flash8previews/candleFlame.html
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Flash also behaves consistently cross-browser, cross/platform -- and
features cannot be disabled by the user.
^^
And that's a good thing? Maybe for Macromedia, not for us. This smells
like astroturf.
Flash can load and play
Roel Schroeven wrote:
SamFeltus schreef:
Here is a visual argument, I would love to see a list of AJAX and SVG
sites that display excellent graphics.
[snip]
In my humble opinion, those sites are an argument _against_ the use of
Flash on websites. They may look pretty (I don't think they
Hmmm... It is interesting how something is terrible to one person, and
great to another, and vice versa.
I keep trying to understand why people like HTML/JS, I don't think I am
gonna understand. I guess for better or worse, Flash is a very
different mindset and approach to the web.
Oh well, I
IMHO, there's nothing more annoying that a website showing me a
progression bar, indicating how much time it will get to provide the
information I'm looking for...
And when the progression bar ends, I have to wait until the flashy
graphics and stupid presentation shows me the go to html site...
I
SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I keep trying to understand why people like HTML/JS, I don't think I
am gonna understand.
It's fairly simple: HTML, CSS and JavaScript have all been
standardised independent of any single corporation, and are freely
implementable, resulting in competing free
As a final thought, seperate from the whole open source/search issue,
which has obvious merit, it does seem Flash has many excellent ideas as
a language/tool for creating/expressing non written ideas that are
lacking in the HTML world.
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bruno at modulix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
SamFeltus wrote:
I am trying to figure out why so little web development in Python uses
Flash as a display technology. It seems most Python applications
choose HTML/CSS/JS as the display technology, yet Flash is a far more
powerful and elegant
Florian Diesch enlightened us with:
- Flash is a proprietary technology requiring a proprietary plugin.
There seem to be at least two free implementations:
But the website of OP together with the websites of many other people
are incompatible with those, since they require the latest and
Am Donnerstag 18 Mai 2006 08:51 schrieb SamFeltus:
I am trying to figure out why so little web development in Python uses
Flash as a display technology. It seems most Python applications
choose HTML/CSS/JS as the display technology, yet Flash is a far more
powerful and elegant display
Heiko Wundram enlightened us with:
And: the web is a platform to offer _information_. Not to offer
shiny graphics/sound [...]
Many would disagree...
Not me, but I know a lot of people that would.
Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital
SamFeltus enlightened us with:
I am trying to figure out why so little web development in Python
uses Flash as a display technology.
There are a couple of reasons:
- Flash is bad for websites that are 100% done inside the Flash
movie. In such a case the back-button doesn't work
SamFeltus wrote:
I am trying to figure out why so little web development in Python uses
Flash as a display technology. It seems most Python applications
choose HTML/CSS/JS as the display technology, yet Flash is a far more
powerful and elegant display technology. On the other hand, HTML/JS
SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It seems most Python applications choose HTML/CSS/JS as the display
technology,
These are open, freely-implementable, non-proprietary standards
controlled by standards bodies.
yet Flash is a far more powerful and elegant display technology.
This is a
I guess there isn't much to understand. If you are satisfied with a
text based, static image web, that is light on artistic possabilities,
all that HTML stuff is acceptable. Perhaps the HTML/JS group will even
get off their rear ends and bring some decent cross platform graphics
capabilities to
I guess there isn't much to understand. If you are satisfied with a
text based, static image web, that is light on artistic possabilities,
all that HTML stuff is acceptable. Perhaps the HTML/JS group will even
get off their rear ends and bring some decent cross platform graphics
capabilities to
SamFeltus wrote:
I guess there isn't much to understand. If you are satisfied with a
text based, static image web, that is light on artistic possabilities,
all that HTML stuff is acceptable.
1. artistic != animated.
2. the web has mostly been designed for text-based content.
Perhaps the
SamFeltus enlightened us with:
I guess there isn't much to understand. If you are satisfied with a
text based, static image web, that is light on artistic
possabilities, all that HTML stuff is acceptable.
You don't need Flash to be artistic.
Perhaps the HTML/JS group will even get off their
SamFeltus wrote:
I guess there isn't much to understand. If you are satisfied with a
text based, static image web, that is light on artistic possabilities,
all that HTML stuff is acceptable.
Personally, I always heave a big sigh of resignation when I'm on a site
that uses Flash, because I
SamFeltus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I guess there isn't much to understand. If you are satisfied with a
text based, static image web, that is light on artistic possabilities,
all that HTML stuff is acceptable. Perhaps the HTML/JS group will even
get off their rear ends and bring some decent
Am Donnerstag 18 Mai 2006 16:09 schrieb SamFeltus:
I guess there isn't much to understand.
Sure, there's a lot to understand here. What I guess you can't come to terms
with is the fact that the web (hell, the whole Internet) isn't designed for
Windows personal computers only, but for a whole
SamFeltus wrote:
I guess there isn't much to understand. If you are satisfied with a
text based, static image web, that is light on artistic possabilities,
all that HTML stuff is acceptable. Perhaps the HTML/JS group will even
get off their rear ends and bring some decent cross platform
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