Le mardi 3 décembre 2013 15:26:45 UTC+1, Ethan Furman a écrit :
On 12/02/2013 12:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native
On 04/12/2013 13:52, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip all the double spaced stuff]
Yon intuitively pointed a very important feature
of unicode. However, it is not necessary, this is
exactly what unicode does (when used properly).
jmf
Presumably using unicode correctly prevents messages
On 2013-12-04, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
Yon intuitively pointed a very important feature of unicode.
However, it is not necessary, this is exactly what unicode does
(when used properly).
Unicode only provides character sets. It's not a natural language
parsing facility.
On 03/12/2013 04:32, Grant Edwards wrote:
On 2013-12-03, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
I believe that Pythonistas should commit themselves to achieving the
goal, before this decade is out, of making Python 3 the default version
and having everybody be cool with unicode.
I'm cool with
On 03/12/2013 01:38, Roy Smith wrote:
In article mailman.3485.1386021891.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
I believe that Pythonistas should
On 2013-12-02, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests
being failures or dubious. If you believe that the native
string type should operate on code-points, then you'll think
that
On 12/02/2013 12:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
operate on code-points, then you'll think that Python does the
Le mardi 3 décembre 2013 06:06:26 UTC+1, Steven D'Aprano a écrit :
On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 16:14:13 -0500, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 3:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests
Le dimanche 1 décembre 2013 21:54:48 UTC+1, Tim Delaney a écrit :
On 2 December 2013 07:15, wxjm...@gmail.com wrote:
0.11.13 02:44, Steven D'Aprano написав(ла):
(2) If you reverse that string, does it give lëon? The implication of
this question is that strings should operate on
On 02/12/2013 12:39, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.
PS I did not even speak about the FSR.
1) Your English is far from perfect as you clearly do not understand the
repeated requests *NOT* to send us double spaced crap via
On 12/2/13 9:46 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 12:39, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.
PS I did not even speak about the FSR.
1) Your English is far from perfect as you clearly do not understand the
repeated requests
On 02/12/2013 15:22, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 9:46 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 12:39, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.
PS I did not even speak about the FSR.
1) Your English is far from perfect as you
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
He's quite deliberately dragged it up by using p.s. Without doubt he's the
worst loser in the world and I'm *NOT* stopping getting at him. I find his
behaviour, continuously and groundlessly insulting the Python core
On 12/2/13 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 15:22, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 9:46 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 12:39, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.
PS I did not even speak about the FSR.
1)
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.
--
Terry Jan Reedy, one of multiple list
On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.
The
On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
operate on code-points, then you'll think that Python does the right
thing.
I think Python is doing it
On 12/2/13 3:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
operate on code-points, then you'll think that Python does the
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Ned Batchelder n...@nedbatchelder.com wrote:
This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy. Isn't it the case that
some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't be normalized
down to a single code point? Characters can accept many accents,
On 02/12/2013 21:14, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 3:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
operate on code-points,
On 12/2/13 3:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply
On 12/02/2013 12:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does*
On 12/02/2013 01:23 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Ned Batchelder n...@nedbatchelder.com wrote:
This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy. Isn't it the case that
some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't be normalized
down to a single
On 02/12/2013 21:25, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 12/02/2013 12:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation
On 12/2/13 4:25 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 12/02/2013 12:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation
On 12/2/13 4:44 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 3:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of
On 02/12/2013 22:24, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 4:44 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 3:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I consider your continual direct personal
On 12/2/13 5:32 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 22:24, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 4:44 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 3:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
the worst loser in the world
Mark, I
Ned Batchelder n...@nedbatchelder.com writes:
This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy. Isn't it the
case that some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't
be normalized down to a single code point? Characters can accept many
accents, for example.
That's true,
On 12/02/2013 02:32 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
... the other being a pot smoking hippy who ...
Please trim your posts. You comment a lot on people sending double-spaced
google posts -- not trimming is nearly as bad.
The above is a good example of unnecessary name calling.
I value your good
In article mailman.3485.1386021891.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
I believe that Pythonistas should commit themselves to achieving the
goal,
On 12/2/2013 4:25 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
jmf is certainly a troll
No, he is a person who discovered a minor performance regression in the
FSR, which we fixed. Unfortunately, he then continued for a year with a
strange troll-like anti-FSR crusade. But his posts in the Unicode
handling
On 2013-12-03, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
I believe that Pythonistas should commit themselves to achieving the
goal, before this decade is out, of making Python 3 the default version
and having everybody be cool with unicode.
I'm cool with Unicode as long as it just works without me
On 12/02/2013 07:22 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 12/2/2013 4:25 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
jmf is certainly a troll
No, he is a person who discovered a minor performance regression in the FSR,
which we fixed. Unfortunately, he then
continued for a year with a strange troll-like anti-FSR crusade.
On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 16:14:13 -0500, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 12/2/13 3:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 04:32:13 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
On 2013-12-03, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
I believe that Pythonistas should commit themselves to achieving the
goal, before this decade is out, of making Python 3 the default version
and having everybody be cool with unicode.
How would a grapheme library work? Basic cluster combination, or would
implementing other algorithms (line break, normalizing to a canonical
form) be necessary?
How do people use grapheme clusters in non-rendering situations? Or here's
perhaps here's a better question: does anyone know any
Le dimanche 1 décembre 2013 00:07:36 UTC+1, Ned Batchelder a écrit :
On 11/30/13 5:37 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
And do you know the origin of this typographical feature?
Because, mechanically, the dot of the i broke too often.
In my opinion, a very
30.11.13 02:44, Steven D'Aprano написав(ла):
(2) If you reverse that string, does it give lëon? The implication of
this question is that strings should operate on grapheme clusters rather
than code points. Python fails this test:
py print(noe\u0308l[::-1])
leon
0.11.13 02:44, Steven D'Aprano написав(ла):
(2) If you reverse that string, does it give lëon? The implication of
this question is that strings should operate on grapheme clusters rather
than code points. ...
BTW, a grapheme cluster *is* a code points cluster.
jmf
--
On 2 December 2013 07:15, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
0.11.13 02:44, Steven D'Aprano написав(ла):
(2) If you reverse that string, does it give lëon? The implication of
this question is that strings should operate on grapheme clusters rather
than code points. ...
BTW, a grapheme cluster
On 01/12/2013 20:54, Tim Delaney wrote:
On 2 December 2013 07:15, wxjmfa...@gmail.com
mailto:wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
0.11.13 02:44, Steven D'Aprano написав(ла):
(2) If you reverse that string, does it give lëon? The
implication of
this question is that strings should
On 2 December 2013 09:06, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I don't remember him ever having a valid point, so FTR can we have a
reference please. I do remember Steven D'Aprano showing that there was a
regression which I flagged up here http://bugs.python.org/issue16061. It
was
On 01/12/2013 22:29, Tim Delaney wrote:
On 2 December 2013 09:06, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk
mailto:breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I don't remember him ever having a valid point, so FTR can we have a
reference please. I do remember Steven D'Aprano showing that there
was
On 12/01/2013 02:06 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
I don't remember him [jmf] ever having a valid point, so FTR can we have a
reference please. I do remember Steven D'Aprano
showing that there was a regression which I flagged up here
http://bugs.python.org/issue16061. It was fixed by Serhiy
On 01/12/2013 22:50, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 12/01/2013 02:06 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
I don't remember him [jmf] ever having a valid point, so FTR can we
have a reference please. I do remember Steven D'Aprano
showing that there was a regression which I flagged up here
On 30/11/2013 02:08, Roy Smith wrote:
In article 529934dc$0$29993$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
(8) What's the uppercase of baffle spelled with an ffl ligature?
Like most other languages, Python 3.2 fails:
py
Le samedi 30 novembre 2013 03:08:49 UTC+1, Roy Smith a écrit :
The whole idea of ligatures like fi is purely typographic. The crossbar
on the f (at least in some fonts) runs into the dot on the i.
Likewise, the top curl on an f run into the serif on top of the l
(and similarly
wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
And do you know the origin of this typographical feature?
Because, mechanically, the dot of the i broke too often.
In my opinion, a very plausible explanation.
It doesn't sound very plausible to me, because there
are a lot more stand-alone 'i's in English text than
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 00:37:17 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
So, who am I to argue with the people who decided that I needed to be
able to type a PILE OF POO character.
Blame the Japanese for that. Apparently some of the biggest users of
Unicode are the various Japanese
On 11/30/13 5:37 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
And do you know the origin of this typographical feature?
Because, mechanically, the dot of the i broke too often.
In my opinion, a very plausible explanation.
It doesn't sound very plausible to me, because there
are a lot
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 11:37:30 +1300, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Which makes it even sillier to have an 'ffi' character in this day and
age, when you can simply space the characters so that they overlap.
It's in Unicode to support legacy character sets that included it[1].
There are a bunch of
On 2013-12-01 00:22, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
* KELVIN SIGN versus LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A
I should hope so ;-)
-tkc
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 18:52:48 -0600, Tim Chase wrote:
On 2013-12-01 00:22, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
* KELVIN SIGN versus LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A
I should hope so ;-)
I blame my keyboard, where letters A and K are practically right next to
each other, only seven letters apart. An easy typo to
On 2013-12-01 00:54, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 18:52:48 -0600, Tim Chase wrote:
On 2013-12-01 00:22, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
* KELVIN SIGN versus LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A
I should hope so ;-)
I blame my keyboard, where letters A and K are practically right
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 18:52:48 -0600, Tim Chase wrote:
On 2013-12-01 00:22, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
* KELVIN SIGN versus LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A
I should hope so ;-)
I blame my keyboard, where letters
In article mailman.3431.1385860444.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 18:52:48 -0600, Tim Chase wrote:
On 2013-12-01 00:22, Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/bofh_2010_episode_18/
ChrisA
What means PFY? The only thing I can think of is Poor F---ing
Yankee :-)
In the context of the BOFH, it stands for Pimply-Faced Youth and means
BOFH's
There's a recent blog post complaining about the lousy support for
Unicode text in most programming languages:
http://mortoray.com/2013/11/27/the-string-type-is-broken/
The author, Mortoray, gives nine basic tests to understand how well the
string type in a language works. The first four
On 30/11/2013 00:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
(5) What is the length of ?
Both characters U+1F636 (GRINNING CAT FACE WITH SMILING EYES) and U+1F63E
(POUTING CAT FACE) are outside the Basic Multilingual Plane, which means
they require more than two bytes each. Most programming languages using
In article 529934dc$0$29993$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
(8) What's the uppercase of baffle spelled with an ffl ligature?
Like most other languages, Python 3.2 fails:
py 'baffle'.upper()
'BAfflE'
but Python 3.3 passes:
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
I would certainly expect, x.lower() == x.upper().lower(), to be True for
all values of x over the set of valid unicode codepoints. Having
u\uFB04.upper() == FFL breaks that. I would also expect len(x) ==
len(x.upper()) to be
In article mailman.3417.1385777557.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
I would certainly expect, x.lower() == x.upper().lower(), to be True for
all values of x over the set of valid unicode
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:28:47 -0500, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
In article mailman.3417.1385777557.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
I would certainly expect, x.lower() ==
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:08:49 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
In article 529934dc$0$29993$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
(8) What's the uppercase of baffle spelled with an ffl ligature?
Like most other languages, Python 3.2 fails:
In article 529967dc$0$29993$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
You edited my text to remove the ligature? That's... unfortunate.
It was un-ligated by the time it reached me.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
:
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 04:21:49AM +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:08:49 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
The whole idea of ligatures like fi is purely typographic.
In English, that's correct. I'm not sure if we can generalise that to
all languages that have ligatures. It
On Saturday 30 November 2013 00:23:22 Zero Piraeus did opine:
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 04:21:49AM +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:08:49 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
The whole idea of ligatures like fi is purely typographic.
In English, that's correct. I'm not sure if we
In article 529967dc$0$29993$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
The whole idea of ligatures like fi is purely typographic.
In English, that's correct. I'm not sure if we can generalise that to all
languages that have ligatures.
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
I was speaking specifically of ligatures like fi (or, if you prefer,
ligatures like ό. By which I mean those things printers invented
because some letter combinations look funny when typeset as two distinct
letters.
I think
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 02:05:59 -0300, Zero Piraeus wrote:
(I happen to think the presence of ligatures in Unicode is insane, but
my dictator-of-the-world certificate appears to have gotten lost in the
post, so fixing that will have to wait).
You're probably right, but we live in an insane world
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 23:00:27 -0700, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
I was speaking specifically of ligatures like fi (or, if you prefer,
ligatures like ό. By which I mean those things printers invented
because some letter combinations look
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 00:37:17 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
So, who am I to argue with the people who decided that I needed to be
able to type a PILE OF POO character.
Blame the Japanese for that. Apparently some of the biggest users of
Unicode are the various Japanese mobile phone manufacturers, TV
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