alex23 wrote:
This is my biggest issue with Knuth's view of literate programming. If
the generated source isn't readable, am I just supposed to trust it?
How can I tell if an error lies in my expression of the algorithm or
in the code generation itself?
Knuth would say that the code generator
alex23 wrote:
Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
Knuth wanted the generated source to be unreadable, so people would not be
tempted to edit the generated code.
This is my biggest issue with Knuth's view of literate programming. If
the generated source isn't readable, am I just supposed
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote:
From: alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Teaching Programming
To: python-list@python.org
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 8:47 PM
Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Knuth wanted the generated source to be unreadable, so
people would
On 5/5/2010 4:50 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
alex23 wrote:
Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
Knuth wanted the generated source to be unreadable, so people would
not be tempted to edit the generated code.
This is my biggest issue with Knuth's view of literate programming. If
the generated source
On 05/04/10 12:59, superpollo wrote:
Martin P. Hellwig ha scritto:
cut
For the corner cases (I can think of a couple) it is good to know you
can use ';' most of the time.
most but not always as i noted (think about loops or function definition)
Well through in some exec magic then, for
Martin P. Hellwig ha scritto:
On 05/04/10 12:59, superpollo wrote:
Martin P. Hellwig ha scritto:
cut
For the corner cases (I can think of a couple) it is good to know you
can use ';' most of the time.
most but not always as i noted (think about loops or function definition)
Well through
André wrote:
To Samuel Williams:(and other interested ;-)
If you want to consider Python in education, I would encourage you
have a look at http://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/edu-sig/
I think you will find that there are quite a few resources available -
perhaps more than you are
I personally like indentation.
I just wonder whether it is an issue that some people will dislike.
But anyway, I updated the language comparison to remove this critique.
Kind regards,
Samuel
On 4/05/2010, at 9:22 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
André wrote:
To Samuel Williams:(and
Samuel Williams ha scritto:
I personally like indentation.
I just wonder whether it is an issue that some people will dislike.
i think there is an issue if you -- say -- produce python code, from
within another programming environment, to be executed on the fly, at
least in some instances.
superpollo, 04.05.2010 12:28:
i think there is an issue if you -- say -- produce python code, from
within another programming environment, to be executed on the fly, at
least in some instances. there might be problems if for example you
generate code from a one-line template.
There are a
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
superpollo, 04.05.2010 12:28:
i think there is an issue if you -- say -- produce python code, from
within another programming environment, to be executed on the fly, at
least in some instances. there might be problems if for example you
generate code from a one-line
On 05/04/10 11:28, superpollo wrote:
Samuel Williams ha scritto:
I personally like indentation.
I just wonder whether it is an issue that some people will dislike.
cut
there might be problems if for example you
generate code from a one-line template.
cut
Well a one-line template code
superpollo, 04.05.2010 13:23:
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
the main reason why this problem doesn't hurt much in Python
is that Python is a dynamic language that can get you extremely far
without generating code. It's simply not necessary in most cases, so
people don't run into problems with it.
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
superpollo, 04.05.2010 13:23:
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
the main reason why this problem doesn't hurt much in Python
is that Python is a dynamic language that can get you extremely far
without generating code. It's simply not necessary in most cases, so
people don't
Martin P. Hellwig ha scritto:
On 05/04/10 11:28, superpollo wrote:
Samuel Williams ha scritto:
I personally like indentation.
I just wonder whether it is an issue that some people will dislike.
cut
there might be problems if for example you
generate code from a one-line template.
cut
Well
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Feb 17 2009, 20:16:45)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
A,B=2,3
if AB:
... print A+B
... else:
... print A**B-B**2
...
-1
A,B=3,2
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:56 PM, superpollo ute...@esempio.net wrote:
of course! *but* if i must generate on-the-fly python code that defines a
function i am back again to the problem:
One-liner:
$ python
Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 27 2010, 18:26:49)
[GCC 4.4.1 (CRUX)] on linux2
Type help,
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
From: Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de
Subject: Re: Teaching Programming
To: python-list@python.org
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 7:43 AM
superpollo, 04.05.2010 13:23:
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
the main reason why this problem
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 7:23 AM, superpollo ute...@esempio.net wrote:
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
superpollo, 04.05.2010 12:28:
i think there is an issue if you -- say -- produce python code, from
within another programming environment, to be executed on the fly, at
least in some instances.
James Mills ha scritto:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:56 PM, superpollo ute...@esempio.net wrote:
of course! *but* if i must generate on-the-fly python code that defines a
function i am back again to the problem:
One-liner:
$ python
Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 27 2010, 18:26:49)
[GCC 4.4.1
superpollo, 04.05.2010 13:56:
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
The question is: why do you have to generate the above code in the
first place? Isn't a function enough that does the above?
of course! *but* if i must generate on-the-fly python code that defines
a function [...]
Well, could you
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010 14:15:
I wrote AsciiLitProg (http://asciilitprog.berlios.de/) in Python. It is
a literate programming tool. It generates code from a document. It can
generate code in any language the author wants. It would have been a LOT
easier to write if it did not generate Python code.
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
superpollo, 04.05.2010 13:56:
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
The question is: why do you have to generate the above code in the
first place? Isn't a function enough that does the above?
of course! *but* if i must generate on-the-fly python code that defines
a function
superpollo, 04.05.2010 14:46:
my template system wants
the input to generate the code to stay on a single line ( don't ask :-( )
I hope you don't mind if I still ask. What are you generating and for what
templating system?
Stefan
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
From: Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de
Subject: Re: Teaching Programming
To: python-list@python.org
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 8:40 AM
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010 14:15:
I wrote AsciiLitProg (http://asciilitprog.berlios.de/) in Python
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
superpollo, 04.05.2010 14:46:
my template system wants
the input to generate the code to stay on a single line ( don't ask :-( )
I hope you don't mind if I still ask. What are you generating and for
what templating system?
ok, since you asked for it, prepare
Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
For more information on Literate Programming in general see the following
links.
None of which address the question of what you found problematic about
generating Python code. Was it issues with indentation?
--
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote:
From: alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Teaching Programming
To: python-list@python.org
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 10:06 AM
Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com
wrote:
For more information on Literate Programming in
general see the following
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
To deal with indentation I had to
1) keep track of indentation of all chunks of code embedded in the
document and indent inserted chunks to the sum of all the
indentation of the enclosing chunks.
In my experience of
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:35 PM, James Mills
prolo...@shortcircuit.net.au wrote:
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
To deal with indentation I had to
1) keep track of indentation of all chunks of code embedded in the
document and indent inserted chunks to
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, James Mills prolo...@shortcircuit.net.au wrote:
From: James Mills prolo...@shortcircuit.net.au
Subject: Re: Teaching Programming
To: python list python-list@python.org
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 10:35 AM
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Ed
Keith e_...@yahoo.com
wrote
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Teaching Programming
To: James Mills prolo...@shortcircuit.net.au
Cc: python list python-list@python.org
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 11:00 AM
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:35 PM
Andre Engels wrote:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:35 PM, James Mills
prolo...@shortcircuit.net.au wrote:
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
To deal with indentation I had to
1) keep track of indentation of all chunks of code embedded in the
document and indent
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010 15:19:
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Stefan Behnel wrote:
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010 14:15:
Python is a great language to write in (although I do
wish it did a better job with closures). But it is a PITA to
generate code for!
Interesting. Could you elaborate a bit? Could you give a
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
From: Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de
Subject: Re: Teaching Programming
To: python-list@python.org
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 11:33 AM
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010 15:19:
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Stefan Behnel wrote:
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010
On Wed, 5 May 2010 00:35:18 +1000
James Mills prolo...@shortcircuit.net.au wrote:
In my experience of non-indentation sensitive languages
such as C-class (curly braces) it's just as hard to keep track
of opening and closing braces.
Harder. That was the big Aha! for me with Python. My first
Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
Tabs are always a problem when writing Python. I get
around this problem by setting my text editor to expand
all tabs with spaces when editing Python, but I have had
problems when coworkers have not done this.
It's best not to trust others to do the right
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010 17:43:
The PITA is having to keep track of the indentation of each embedded
chunk and summing it for each level of indentation. This requires a fair
amount of bookkeeping that would not otherwise be necessary.
The original prototype simply replaced each embedded chunk with
superpollo ha scritto:
Stefan Behnel ha scritto:
superpollo, 04.05.2010 14:46:
my template system wants
the input to generate the code to stay on a single line ( don't ask
:-( )
I hope you don't mind if I still ask. What are you generating and for
what templating system?
ok, since you
On 5/3/2010 7:46 PM, cjw wrote:
Nobody likes indentation at first,
Speak for yourself, please. For two decades before I met Python, I
indented code nicely whenever it was allowed. That option was one of the
great advancements of Fortran77 over FortranIV. Coming from C, I was
immediately
On Tue, 4 May 2010 17:00:11 +0200
Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com wrote:
Although I have little or no experience with this, I still dare to say
that I don't agree. The difference is that in C you do not _need_ to
know where in the braces-defined hierarchy you are. You just embed or
change a
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 8:49 AM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain da...@druid.net wrote:
On Wed, 5 May 2010 00:35:18 +1000
James Mills prolo...@shortcircuit.net.au wrote:
In my experience of non-indentation sensitive languages
such as C-class (curly braces) it's just as hard to keep track
of opening and
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010 17:43:
The PITA is having to keep track of the indentation of each embedded
chunk and summing it for each level of indentation. This requires a fair
amount of bookkeeping that would not otherwise be
On 5/4/2010 8:46 AM, superpollo wrote:
but i do not think i can use it myself, since my template system wants
the input to generate the code to stay on a single line ( don't ask :-( )
I think we can agree that Python (unlike C, for instance) is not good
for writing non-humanly-readable
Ethan Furman wrote:
div class=moz-text-flowed style=font-family: -moz-fixedAndre
Engels wrote:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:35 PM, James Mills
prolo...@shortcircuit.net.au wrote:
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
To deal with indentation I had to
1) keep track of
Terry Reedy wrote:
On 5/3/2010 7:46 PM, cjw wrote:
Nobody likes indentation at first,
Speak for yourself, please. For two decades before I met Python, I
indented code nicely whenever it was allowed. That option was one of
the great advancements of Fortran77 over FortranIV. Coming from C, I
superpollo, 04.05.2010 17:55:
since i have some kind of computer literacy (as opposed to most of my
colleagues), some years ago i was kindly asked to try and solve a
simple particular problem, that is to write a program that generates
math exercises (q+a) from an example taken from the textbook.
James Mills ha scritto:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:56 PM, superpollo ute...@esempio.net wrote:
of course! *but* if i must generate on-the-fly python code that defines a
function i am back again to the problem:
One-liner:
$ python
Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 27 2010, 18:26:49)
[GCC 4.4.1
superpollo ha scritto:
James Mills ha scritto:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:56 PM, superpollo ute...@esempio.net wrote:
of course! *but* if i must generate on-the-fly python code that
defines a
function i am back again to the problem:
One-liner:
$ python
Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 27 2010,
On 5/4/2010 1:44 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
On Tue, 04 May 2010 12:06:10 -0400, Terry Reedytjre...@udel.edu
declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
Speak for yourself, please. For two decades before I met Python, I
indented code nicely whenever it was allowed. That option was
superpollo ha scritto:
superpollo ha scritto:
James Mills ha scritto:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:56 PM, superpollo ute...@esempio.net wrote:
of course! *but* if i must generate on-the-fly python code that
defines a
function i am back again to the problem:
One-liner:
$ python
Python 2.6.5
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:16 PM, superpollo ute...@esempio.net wrote:
superpollo ha scritto:
James Mills ha scritto:
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:56 PM, superpollo ute...@esempio.net wrote:
of course! *but* if i must generate on-the-fly python code that defines
a
function i am back again to
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
From: Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de
Subject: Re: Teaching Programming
To: python-list@python.org
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 11:52 AM
Ed Keith, 04.05.2010 17:43:
The PITA is having to keep track of the indentation of
each
Ed Keith e_...@yahoo.com wrote:
Knuth wanted the generated source to be unreadable, so people would not be
tempted to edit the generated code.
This is my biggest issue with Knuth's view of literate programming. If
the generated source isn't readable, am I just supposed to trust it?
How can I
Dear Friends,
I'm looking for some help from the Python community. I hope this is the right
place to ask for information.
I'm putting together a website aimed at high school students and teachers, and
would like to make sure the following page is as good as possible:
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:05 AM, Samuel Williams
space.ship.travel...@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Friends,
I'm looking for some help from the Python community. I hope this is the
right place to ask for information.
I'm putting together a website aimed at high school students and teachers,
and
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:29 AM, Chris Rebert c...@rebertia.com wrote:
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:05 AM, Samuel Williams
space.ship.travel...@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Friends,
I'm looking for some help from the Python community. I hope this is the
right place to ask for information.
I'm putting
Dear Chris,
Thanks for reading further into the site.
Yes, it is complicated to provide a good comparison. It isn't always accurate
and I welcome feedback.
Please be aware that orange does not mean problem - it simply means take note
that there may be potential issues that you need to
On 4/05/2010, at 1:06 AM, Chris Rebert wrote:
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:29 AM, Chris Rebert c...@rebertia.com wrote:
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:05 AM, Samuel Williams
space.ship.travel...@gmail.com wrote:
snip
In particular, Why would I learn this language? section needs to have a
few
Dear Chris,
I will take your feedback into consideration and let you know the outcome when
I have time to think about it.
Again, I appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to think about
the comparison chart.
Kind regards,
Samuel
On 4/05/2010, at 1:58 AM, Chris Rebert wrote:
I
in
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882
Please have a look at it,
Helmut.
(I'm teaching programming for more than 15 years)
--
Helmut Jarausch
Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 5/3/2010 9:38 AM, Samuel Williams wrote:
Dear Chris,
Thanks for reading further into the site.
Yes, it is complicated to provide a good comparison. It isn't always
accurate and I welcome feedback.
Please be aware that orange does not mean problem - it simply means
take note that there may
To Samuel Williams:(and other interested ;-)
If you want to consider Python in education, I would encourage you
have a look at http://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/edu-sig/
I think you will find that there are quite a few resources available -
perhaps more than you are aware of.
On 03-May-10 09:38 AM, Samuel Williams wrote:
Dear Chris,
Thanks for reading further into the site.
Yes, it is complicated to provide a good comparison. It isn't always accurate
and I welcome feedback.
Please be aware that orange does not mean problem - it simply means take note that there
Nobody likes indentation at first, it is different.
For what it's worth, I didn't have a programming background, and I
liked Python's indentation right from the start. I was used to
thinking in terms of indentation from writing and word processing
documents with subordinate sections, so I
65 matches
Mail list logo
