Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 5:32 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > > On Dec 14, 2016, at 9:44 AM, Chris Barker wrote: > > conda also has a non-framework build of Python -- not sure if that would > cause any issues with the wheels. > > > I am not up on all the technical specifics, but this suggests to me

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Dec 14, 2016, at 9:44 AM, Chris Barker wrote: > > conda also has a non-framework build of Python -- not sure if that would > cause any issues with the wheels. I am not up on all the technical specifics, but this suggests to me that Conda would be generally unsuitable for use as a Mac nat

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > If we were to add s PyObjC build to conda-forge, the full stack should > "just work". > > And conda forge has s CI system set up to auto build for various python > versions > > http://conda-forge.github.io/#add_recipe > > > Why would

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Dec 13, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Christopher Barker wrote: > > Personally, I have avoided all this mess the last couple years by using conda > (miniconda install). It does a nice job of keeping entirely separate from the > system ( or any other) python, and it can manage non-python libs as well,

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

Personally, I have avoided all this mess the last couple years by using conda (miniconda install). It does a nice job of keeping entirely separate from the system ( or any other) python, and it can manage non-python libs as well, so you don't need Brew. And it has environments that are like virtual

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On 14 Sep 2016, at 00:28, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > > >> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Andrew Jaffe > > wrote: >> >> But this is the framework (non-apple!) build!… > > "framework build" refers to the way that Python is built. Apple's python, > Python.org

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Oct 7, 2016, at 1:36 AM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > > On 06/10/2016 20:26, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >>> On Oct 6, 2016, at 2:56 AM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: >>> On 17/09/2016 18:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily wrote: > On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz w

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Oct 6, 2016, at 2:56 AM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > > On 17/09/2016 18:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >> >>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily wrote: >>> >>> On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe > wrote:

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Oct 12, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > > Not me. If I understand correctly, Glyph -- who undoubtedly understand the > situation better than I do -- still thinks that there's no actual bug here, > since we shouldn't be using the framework build this way, but I'm not sure I > und

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 01:52, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > > That would work, and in fact I don't really need PyObjC (sorry, Ronald!) but > I've got my whole setup working with the "global" python.org > framework build, so I am used to that... and the Sierra > status quo does see

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily wrote: > > On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe >> > wrote: >>> >>> Aha! >>> >>> $ ls -lt /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/ >>> total 0 >>> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 157

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > > But this is the framework (non-apple!) build!… "framework build" refers to the way that Python is built. Apple's python, Python.org's python, and Homebrew's python are all framework builds. So, to be clear: this is python.org python? >

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > > On 17/09/2016 18:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >> >>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily wrote: >>> >>> On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe > wrote:

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Sep 13, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Jack Jansen wrote: > > I think > /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/site-packages > is a very old location for storing Python packages. Recently things have been > installed in /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages. > > Could it be tha

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > > Aha! > > $ ls -lt /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/ > total 0 > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 157 31 Jul 02:36 Extras.pth* > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 119 31 Jul 02:36 README > $ more /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/Extras.pth > /Sy

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

> On 25 Oct 2016, at 10:36, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > > On 12/10/2016 21:02, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > > >> On 12 Oct 2016, at 21:09, Glyph Lefkowitz >> > wrote: > >> > >>> On Oct 12, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Andrew Jaffe >>> > wrote: > >>> >

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On 12/10/2016 21:02, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > >> On 12 Oct 2016, at 21:09, Glyph Lefkowitz > > wrote: >> >>> On Oct 12, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Andrew Jaffe >> > wrote: >>> >>> Not me. If I understand correctly, Glyph -- who undoubtedly >>> un

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On 11/10/2016 22:26, Ronald Oussoren wrote: On 17 Sep 2016, at 19:59, Glyph Lefkowitz mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe mailto:

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On 06/10/2016 20:26, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Oct 6, 2016, at 2:56 AM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: On 17/09/2016 18:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily wrote: On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: $ ls -lt /Library

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On 17/09/2016 18:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily wrote: On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Aha! $ ls -lt /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/ total 0 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root w

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On 20/09/2016 20:54, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >> On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: >> >> On 17/09/2016 18:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily wrote: On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andr

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On 17/09/2016 18:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Ned Deily wrote: On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Aha! $ ls -lt /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/ total 0 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root w

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

On 2016-09-13 19:33, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: >> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Andrew Jaffe > > wrote: >> >> Aha! >> >> $ ls -lt /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/ >> total 0 >> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 157 31 Jul 02:36 Extras.pth* >> -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 119 31

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

Hi, > On 13 Sep 2016, at 23:28, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > > >> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Andrew Jaffe wrote: >> >> But this is the framework (non-apple!) build!… > > "framework build" refers to the way that Python is built. Apple's python, > Python.org's python, and Homebrew's python ar

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

OK, I’m still being dense: > On 13 Sep 2016, at 22:56, Jack Jansen wrote: > > It’s hardcoded in the Python executable, I’m afraid:-( > > Just tried “python -s -S -v”, and the Extras/lib/python is still in sys.path. > > That wasn’t a very smart move by the Apple engineers, I guess…. But this i

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

It’s hardcoded in the Python executable, I’m afraid:-( Just tried “python -s -S -v”, and the Extras/lib/python is still in sys.path. That wasn’t a very smart move by the Apple engineers, I guess…. What you could do (but this is getting rather hacky) is create a /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

Hi, > On 13 Sep 2016, at 22:26, Jack Jansen wrote: > > You’re absolutely right (both on SIP and on > /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework probably being a python.org install), > sorry for the confusion. > > This seems to be due to the way Apple has done the “Extras” directory, and > adding

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

You’re absolutely right (both on SIP and on /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework probably being a python.org install), sorry for the confusion. This seems to be due to the way Apple has done the “Extras” directory, and adding things there to sys.path. See for example https://github.com/pypa/pi

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

I think /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/site-packages is a very old location for storing Python packages. Recently things have been installed in /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages. Could it be that you’ve installed pyobjc a couple of OSX releases ago? And could i

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

Dear Chris and Glyph, > > On Sunday, September 11, 2016, Andrew Jaffe wrote: > Dear Ronald, > > Thanks, as usual, for all this. > > I have upgraded to the GM version of 10.12 on the beta track. I use the > python.org framework builds of python. > > When I do "pip list --outdated", I get a lon

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

Dear Ronald, Thanks, as usual, for all this. I have upgraded to the GM version of 10.12 on the beta track. I use the python.org framework builds of python. When I do "pip list --outdated", I get a long list: altgraph (0.10.2) - Latest: 0.12 [sdist] macholib (1.5.1) - Latest: 1.7 [sdist] m

[Pythonmac-SIG] PyObjC and macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

Hi, I’m slowly working my way through the SDK headers for macOS 10.12 during idle time at EuroPython2016, from the frameworks with small diffs to those with larger diffs. There are at the moment about 26 frameworks I haven’t looked at at all, and another 10 where I know I have to do some mor