Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Wolfgang Uhlig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes Marcel wrote: Quite normally, I guess. But there will be problems when a) two users trying to start QPC at the same instant (one will get a "Cannot open SMSQE.BIN" or something like that). b) two users trying to access the .WIN file at the same time. To prevent those problems I did it the following way in the language institute I worked, where severals students had to work with the same QL-program at the same time. 1) There is one original QPC, SMSQ/E.bin and QXL.win on the server. 2) Clicking a QPC-icon on the client's desktop first runs a small batch-file which will XCOPY (DOS command) all files to the client computer and then 3) run QPC from the client computer. The XCOPY command cares for copying only when something on the server has changed, so you can make sure that changes to programs or data is only done on the server "original" qxl.win file. If changes on the client computers have to be stored, just adapt the XCOPY-batch to not copy QXL.win. Everything runs fine, fast and complications are not likely. Modern PC-networks are so fast, that you hardly notice the copying. Umm ... a cool solution, Wolfgang. You have brought back memories of discovering the use of XCOPY rather than COPY in DOS ... :-) Your solution should be perfect for Dilwyns' proposal for his small user network. Because, as you say, the background copying will hardly be noticed. In fact my experience of using networks is that it is nearly always 'slow' compared to a single machine anyway. So the user is hardly going to be inconvenienced. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Ah, great news. That sounds like it will achieve what I want to do. If the data in the file needs updating (e.g. new forms to add) I could temporarily un write protect it, update it, and restore normality. In normal everyday use, nobody will need to write to it. If I need to update it, I'll tell everyone not to use it until I tell them I've finished (administrator rules OK!) Thanks Marcel and everyone, just the information I wanted. Also, while you at it you may as well make the win_ file on the sever as big as you can get away with ... then you will have lots of space to store QL stuff that no one else will need to know about. I remember the DOS command to make a file read only is 'attrib +r' ... ? From: Marcel Kilgus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2005/02/11 Fri PM 03:28:31 GMT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > As long as nobody opens a channel to write to it, Doesn't matter whether you open the file for writing or only for reading. The drive will be blocked. But I just remember one other solution. If you set the .WIN file attribute to "read only" in Windows then the QPCs will open the file in a different mode. In this mode two or more QPCs can actually have the file opened *at the same time* because they can be sure that no other application will be able to corrupt the cached FAT data. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marcel Kilgus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes Phoebus Dokos wrote: The one thing that I can tell you is that at least my QPC will not share a QXL.WIN file with another QPC (or uQLx - Q-emuLator for that matter). Although QPC will start normally, the second another application tries to use the QXL.WIN file, the first QPC will not have access to the QXL.WIN file until the sharing application ceases to operate. Do a "WIN_REMV x", x being the drive number, on the PC that hosts the .WIN file (it is automatically done if QPC detects that the .WIN is on a remote server). In short that means that you cannot have one shared qxl.win across the network. Wrong. They can't access it at the same time (i.e. after "OPEN#3,win1_boot" WIN1 is blocked for the other machine until you do a "CLOSE#3"), but apart from that they can share it just fine. And the latter is also true of multiple instances of QPC2 on the same PC I assume ? Which I haven't tried by the way. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
Ah, great news. That sounds like it will achieve what I want to do. If the data in the file needs updating (e.g. new forms to add) I could temporarily un write protect it, update it, and restore normality. In normal everyday use, nobody will need to write to it. If I need to update it, I'll tell everyone not to use it until I tell them I've finished (administrator rules OK!) Thanks Marcel and everyone, just the information I wanted. Dilwyn Jones > From: Marcel Kilgus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2005/02/11 Fri PM 03:28:31 GMT > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > As long as nobody opens a channel to write to it, > > Doesn't matter whether you open the file for writing or only for > reading. The drive will be blocked. > > But I just remember one other solution. If you set the .WIN file > attribute to "read only" in Windows then the QPCs will open the file > in a different mode. In this mode two or more QPCs can actually have > the file opened *at the same time* because they can be sure that no > other application will be able to corrupt the cached FAT data. > > Marcel > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm > ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
This seems quite straightforward, thank you. A couple of things which worried me were: 1) how to install it on the server - I guess you just put the floppy disk in the server and install normally. I didn't know if QPC2's installation routine could handle installing on a server. 2) whether I'd have to somehow ensure that the relevant files (it should only be a small QXL.WIN) were either accessible from the server, or if there had to be copies (even if only temporary on the client hard disk) locally when it was used. When I'm ready to finish doing this, it should be an interesting exercice in itself even if no long term use comes from it. Dilwyn Jones > > From: "Wolfgang Uhlig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2005/02/11 Fri PM 02:41:45 GMT > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2 > > Marcel wrote: > > Quite normally, I guess. But there will be problems when > > a) two users trying to start QPC at the same instant (one will get a > > "Cannot open SMSQE.BIN" or something like that). > > b) two users trying to access the .WIN file at the same time. > > To prevent those problems I did it the following way in the language > institute I worked, where severals students had to work with the same > QL-program > at the same time. > > 1) There is one original QPC, SMSQ/E.bin and QXL.win on the server. > 2) Clicking a QPC-icon on the client's desktop first runs a small > batch-file > which will XCOPY (DOS command) all files to the client computer and > then > 3) run QPC from the client computer. > > The XCOPY command cares for copying only when something on the server > has changed, so you can make sure that changes to programs or data is only > done on the server "original" qxl.win file. > If changes on the client computers have to be stored, just adapt the > XCOPY-batch > to not copy QXL.win. > > Everything runs fine, fast and complications are not likely. Modern > PC-networks are so > fast, that you hardly notice the copying. > > Wolfgang > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm > ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
> Quite normally, I guess. But there will be problems when > a) two users trying to start QPC at the same instant (one will get a > "Cannot open SMSQE.BIN" or something like that). I can understand that part. They will just have to be primed to try again when that happens. > b) two users trying to access the .WIN file at the same time. Can two programs just read from the QXL.WIN at the same time, or does this apply to reading files as well, even if no program has a write channel open to it at the time. > > > Ffibys > > Mealrc > > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm > -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > As long as nobody opens a channel to write to it, Doesn't matter whether you open the file for writing or only for reading. The drive will be blocked. But I just remember one other solution. If you set the .WIN file attribute to "read only" in Windows then the QPCs will open the file in a different mode. In this mode two or more QPCs can actually have the file opened *at the same time* because they can be sure that no other application will be able to corrupt the cached FAT data. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
> > In short that means that you cannot have one shared qxl.win across the > > network. > > Wrong. They can't access it at the same time (i.e. after > "OPEN#3,win1_boot" WIN1 is blocked for the other machine until you do > a "CLOSE#3"), but apart from that they can share it just fine. > > Marcel Ah, in my case none of the QPCs would write to the file on the server, they would simply read startup information from there, and any extra info stored on there. Written information would be stored on a local QXL.WIN on the user's drive C: if the need arises. It's a program to do calculations of volume, weight and checklists to go through for planning purposes. Copies might be printed, but nothing stored. What I envisage is that a small menu driven front end would load master files from, say, WIN8 which happens to be on the server. The user would print to their local printer if needed, or save to WIN1_ on their own hard disk if they really wanted to save something, which wouldn't be an option in the demo version used initially at least. As long as nobody opens a channel to write to it, the QXL.WIN on the server could be used by two copies of QPC2 on different machines? Or did I misunderstand that bit? -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
Marcel wrote: Quite normally, I guess. But there will be problems when a) two users trying to start QPC at the same instant (one will get a "Cannot open SMSQE.BIN" or something like that). b) two users trying to access the .WIN file at the same time. To prevent those problems I did it the following way in the language institute I worked, where severals students had to work with the same QL-program at the same time. 1) There is one original QPC, SMSQ/E.bin and QXL.win on the server. 2) Clicking a QPC-icon on the client's desktop first runs a small batch-file which will XCOPY (DOS command) all files to the client computer and then 3) run QPC from the client computer. The XCOPY command cares for copying only when something on the server has changed, so you can make sure that changes to programs or data is only done on the server "original" qxl.win file. If changes on the client computers have to be stored, just adapt the XCOPY-batch to not copy QXL.win. Everything runs fine, fast and complications are not likely. Modern PC-networks are so fast, that you hardly notice the copying. Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
Phoebus Dokos wrote: > Hmmm I did not know that WIN_REMV applied to that situation as well (Is it > in the QPC manual?) Hey, you expect me to know my manuals? You're the user, you should have read them and be able to tell whether it's in there or not ;-) But actually, it is: "When a drive is declared removable, the .WIN file is closed after all SMSQ/E files on it are closed. This can also be used to allow a single .WIN file to be shared over a network. (Files on a remote computer are automatically set to be removable). As long as one instance of QPC has open files on the drive, no other instance can access it." Perhaps this is too technical for most people to follow, I have no clue, but at least it's documented. > Hmm then as I recently discovered this only applies if you share the same > qxl.win file between QPC and a non QPC emulator... I don't think any other emulator can do this, yes. > In any case though, I thought that Dilwyn wanted to run QPC directly > from the server (but locally) and all of the copies running would > access the one QXL.WIN file. How would that work? Quite normally, I guess. But there will be problems when a) two users trying to start QPC at the same instant (one will get a "Cannot open SMSQE.BIN" or something like that). b) two users trying to access the .WIN file at the same time. > Ffibys Mealrc ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
ÎÎÎ Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:49:40 +0100,Î(Î) Marcel Kilgus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ÎÎÏÎÏÎ/wrote: Phoebus Dokos wrote: The one thing that I can tell you is that at least my QPC will not share a QXL.WIN file with another QPC (or uQLx - Q-emuLator for that matter). Although QPC will start normally, the second another application tries to use the QXL.WIN file, the first QPC will not have access to the QXL.WIN file until the sharing application ceases to operate. Do a "WIN_REMV x", x being the drive number, on the PC that hosts the .WIN file (it is automatically done if QPC detects that the .WIN is on a remote server). Hmmm I did not know that WIN_REMV applied to that situation as well (Is it in the QPC manual?) In short that means that you cannot have one shared qxl.win across the network. Wrong. They can't access it at the same time (i.e. after "OPEN#3,win1_boot" WIN1 is blocked for the other machine until you do a "CLOSE#3"), but apart from that they can share it just fine. Hmm then as I recently discovered this only applies if you share the same qxl.win file between QPC and a non QPC emulator... In any case though, I thought that Dilwyn wanted to run QPC directly from the server (but locally) and all of the copies running would access the one QXL.WIN file. How would that work? Ffibys ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
Phoebus Dokos wrote: > The one thing that I can tell you is that at least my QPC will not share a > QXL.WIN file with another QPC (or uQLx - Q-emuLator for that matter). > Although QPC will start normally, the second another application tries to > use the QXL.WIN file, the first QPC will not have access to the QXL.WIN > file until the sharing application ceases to operate. Do a "WIN_REMV x", x being the drive number, on the PC that hosts the .WIN file (it is automatically done if QPC detects that the .WIN is on a remote server). > In short that means that you cannot have one shared qxl.win across the > network. Wrong. They can't access it at the same time (i.e. after "OPEN#3,win1_boot" WIN1 is blocked for the other machine until you do a "CLOSE#3"), but apart from that they can share it just fine. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] network installation of QPC2
ÎÎÎ Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:13:17 +,Î(Î) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ÎÎÏÎÏÎ/wrote: The one thing that I can tell you is that at least my QPC will not share a QXL.WIN file with another QPC (or uQLx - Q-emuLator for that matter). Although QPC will start normally, the second another application tries to use the QXL.WIN file, the first QPC will not have access to the QXL.WIN file until the sharing application ceases to operate. In short that means that you cannot have one shared qxl.win across the network. However, you could have one QPC copy running on the server (with sernet-udp) set as server and then client QPCs accessing that locally :-) I mean the networking facility of SMSQ/e was designed for just that. Ffibys -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] network installation of QPC2
Does anyone have any experience of installing QPC2 on a network server? I'm in the process of writing a program which would be useful to all of us here at work. In order to demonstrate it, it might be useful to be able to install QPC2 demo on the server, so that we can all have a QPC2 icon on our desktop and QPC2 will fire up offering the option to run this program. Presumably I'd have to configure it with the WINs etc set to the UNC paths to the relevant location on the server, but I'm not too worried about that. One WIN device can point to the QXL.WIN on the server holding the program, another can point to a local QXL.WIN on the user's machine for their own local files. What advice I need really is how I should go about installing it on the server to save putting a copy on everyone's PC, that way each time I update the program I need only update the copy on one machine (or on the server more likely) for everyone to get the latest copy. Although it's about QPC2, I'll understand if people prefer to reply off-list on this one. The only relevance to us would be the information being available if anyone else wants to do something similar with QPC2. If enough information comes my way, I might even write it up as an article for posterity. Equally, if this is impractical (although I won't let Roy deter me by demanding I stay off the company server) then as long as I understand the reasons I'll leave well alone! Of course, if it works here, the next step will be a small network at home between the wife's laptop and my PC, plus my son and step daughters when their computers want to join in! Then they'll find QPC2 imposed on them too! -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
