Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
On 02/15/2012 08:15 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: On 02/15/2012 08:33 AM, Dan McAllister wrote: I know I'm almost always the odd man out on issues like this one - the squeaky wheel, so to speak - but I too would like to see us additionally support Debian (or Ubuntu), as they are gaining in popularity... and I like the idea of being a supporter/developer on a mail system that is gaining in popularity (as QMT is). I agree. That being said, I see no reason to try to support it with a binary build, as I fully support the idea of moving towards a _*QMT as an appliance*_ approach (which is to say as a virtual machine that has multiple storage options -- on the VM, on the host system, or even on a NAS.) As an appliance, we could run QMT on Fedora Core 1, if we so chose... (not that we would, but as an appliance, the choice of maintained OS becomes far less important!) I agree with this as well. While this seems to contradict the previous paragraph in some senses, I think we can provide QMT in a variety of distribution formats (first), and a variety of platform/distros (secondarily, later on). FWIW, I'm thinking of making QMT not a single appliance necessarily, but a set of appliances, each with a specific role which operates in harmony with the others (MTA, MSA, MUA, ...). For a single mega-appliance (which is what QMT is presently), all of the individual appliances could be combined into one. Or you could combine whichever ones you'd like, as you see fit. This sort of flexibility will allow QMT to scale much more easily, among other benefits. Stay tuned on the developers list for more about this. ClearOS is what I view as the ideal toaster. It does exactly what your describing. While it's called a gateway, it can be easily used as a web or e mail server with a very nice interface. I personally prefer CLI, but for the masses the simplicity of the GUI is a consideration. CentOS is stable in every sense. I use SuSe on my desktop and have for server use and it's been very good too. I think it's the # 1 Distro for enterprise IIRC. I think both are good choices for QMT Personally, this is the way I'm moving (virtualization) -- not only for my QMT, but also for my apache (HTTP) and DNS/DHCP/Auth systems... I believe that most people are with you there. I'm leaning toward nginx instead of apache these days though. ;) Just my 2-cents worth... Closer to $2. ;) PS: I use Ubuntu 10.4 LTS as a desktop on old laptops -- other than HD media (where they just don't have enough horsepower) and some Windoze Media (where there just aren't codecs that I can find), these little laptops do everything a kid normally wants to do on a computer -- and on hardware that costs less than $200! (I have tried CentOS on these same laptops have far more issues with media than with Ubuntu -- haven't had time to figure out why, I'm just satisfied that there IS such a thing!) I use Ubuntu LTS 10.4 on my desk/laptop (workstation). I'll have some big decisions to make come this summer. I didn't actually install 10.4 until about the time that 10.10 came out though, so I won't be in a hurry to get to 12.4. I *do* like stable things. :) BTW: I use CentOS 5 on most of my older servers (having migrated to CentOS from Fedora 8 some years ago), and CentOS 6 on my newer ones... as I have pointed out on several occasions here, I have had NO PROBLEMS building QMT on CentOS 6, and don't personally care about the lack of the toaster-admin web-GUI... in fact, several people have pointed out that a change to the php.ini file could fix those problems, but I haven't tested it out because I simply don't use the GUI interface to begin with, and I just haven't gotten around to it! While I don't discourage anyone from being on the bleeding edge if that's their preference, I don't want to be in any hurry getting to COS6. There's no urgency (5 is supported 'til 2017), and there are some new system features (systemd and rsyslog to be specific )that I'd like to consider using if possible. Migrating to these common system services will make inclusion of other distros a bit easier as well. As you can see, I don't drink anyone's Kool-Aid... the RIGHT tool in the RIGHT place, regardless of who its from or what update mechanism is used! :-) Right. Which is why I'm giving OBS serious consideration. ;) Thanks Dan. -- Cecil Yother, Jr. cj cj's 2318 Clement Ave Alameda, CA 94501 tel 510.865.2787 | http://yother.com Check out the new Volvo classified resource http://www.volvoclassified.com - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for
[qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
On 02/14/2012 11:46 PM, Pak Ogah wrote: please take a look at iredmail.org it support 4 mainstream distro - rhel/centos/scientific - debian/ubuntu - opensuse - freebsd There are some things about iredmail that I like, and others that I dislike (I'll let you guess which are which). I hope that the things I like will be incorporated into QMT in the future, while leaving the distasteful things behind. they can manage this because all the components they use are officially provided by the distros' repositories. (that's why I am also agree Eric decision to use dovecot, mailman as it's provided by distro and also will using SA/clamav from distro) what iredmail do, is provide a script that work on those distros, installing all components, then configured them and finally give the end users A REALLY NICE admin interface. no hassle maintaining the core softwares, repositories and infrastructures. but since we are qmailtoaster group we use qmail,vpopmail,qmailadmin,daemontools,ucspi,etc which is not officially supported by most distros that's why we need to maintain our core softwares, repositories and infrastructures. True enough, Pak. Indeed, we hope to leverage upstream packagers more effectively going forward, in a (somewhat) similar fashion to iredmail. Unfortunately, we sometimes still need to build our own packages to add support that is not included upstream (such as including vpopmail with dovecot). Choosing to focus on RHEL/CentOS at this time is not a permanent moratorium on other distros. It's only a case that I think doing so will allow us to focus more easily on changes that need to be made in order to get to where (I think) we want to be. (I don't mean to sound like a politician, but hey, I can't lay out the whole game plan right here). Thanks to Johannes, we *may* be leveraging the OBS (Open Build Service) for building our packages, which means that support for other distros may come along sooner than I'm anticipating. This is not yet a certainty, but it's looking promising at this point. Hop on over to the devel list if this interests you. Keep in mind that providing support for other platforms is not a trivial matter, even with OBS. What's needed as much as anything are people to test, use and support it on those platforms once it's built. That is a much larger commitment of resources than simply building the packages. I'll conclude this piece by saying that reshaping QMT for a virtualized landscape (I refrain from using the c word) will continue to be a higher priority than providing multiple platform support. Thanks to everyone for their comments and support. -- -Eric 'shubes' - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
[qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
On 02/15/2012 08:33 AM, Dan McAllister wrote: I know I'm almost always the odd man out on issues like this one - the squeaky wheel, so to speak - but I too would like to see us additionally support Debian (or Ubuntu), as they are gaining in popularity... and I like the idea of being a supporter/developer on a mail system that is gaining in popularity (as QMT is). I agree. That being said, I see no reason to try to support it with a binary build, as I fully support the idea of moving towards a _*QMT as an appliance*_ approach (which is to say as a virtual machine that has multiple storage options -- on the VM, on the host system, or even on a NAS.) As an appliance, we could run QMT on Fedora Core 1, if we so chose... (not that we would, but as an appliance, the choice of maintained OS becomes far less important!) I agree with this as well. While this seems to contradict the previous paragraph in some senses, I think we can provide QMT in a variety of distribution formats (first), and a variety of platform/distros (secondarily, later on). FWIW, I'm thinking of making QMT not a single appliance necessarily, but a set of appliances, each with a specific role which operates in harmony with the others (MTA, MSA, MUA, ...). For a single mega-appliance (which is what QMT is presently), all of the individual appliances could be combined into one. Or you could combine whichever ones you'd like, as you see fit. This sort of flexibility will allow QMT to scale much more easily, among other benefits. Stay tuned on the developers list for more about this. Personally, this is the way I'm moving (virtualization) -- not only for my QMT, but also for my apache (HTTP) and DNS/DHCP/Auth systems... I believe that most people are with you there. I'm leaning toward nginx instead of apache these days though. ;) Just my 2-cents worth... Closer to $2. ;) PS: I use Ubuntu 10.4 LTS as a desktop on old laptops -- other than HD media (where they just don't have enough horsepower) and some Windoze Media (where there just aren't codecs that I can find), these little laptops do everything a kid normally wants to do on a computer -- and on hardware that costs less than $200! (I have tried CentOS on these same laptops have far more issues with media than with Ubuntu -- haven't had time to figure out why, I'm just satisfied that there IS such a thing!) I use Ubuntu LTS 10.4 on my desk/laptop (workstation). I'll have some big decisions to make come this summer. I didn't actually install 10.4 until about the time that 10.10 came out though, so I won't be in a hurry to get to 12.4. I *do* like stable things. :) BTW: I use CentOS 5 on most of my older servers (having migrated to CentOS from Fedora 8 some years ago), and CentOS 6 on my newer ones... as I have pointed out on several occasions here, I have had NO PROBLEMS building QMT on CentOS 6, and don't personally care about the lack of the toaster-admin web-GUI... in fact, several people have pointed out that a change to the php.ini file could fix those problems, but I haven't tested it out because I simply don't use the GUI interface to begin with, and I just haven't gotten around to it! While I don't discourage anyone from being on the bleeding edge if that's their preference, I don't want to be in any hurry getting to COS6. There's no urgency (5 is supported 'til 2017), and there are some new system features (systemd and rsyslog to be specific )that I'd like to consider using if possible. Migrating to these common system services will make inclusion of other distros a bit easier as well. As you can see, I don't drink anyone's Kool-Aid... the RIGHT tool in the RIGHT place, regardless of who its from or what update mechanism is used! :-) Right. Which is why I'm giving OBS serious consideration. ;) Thanks Dan. -- -Eric 'shubes' - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
[qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
On 02/13/2012 10:58 PM, Khan Mohamed Ashraf wrote: What about Ubuntu server, would the team consider getting qmailtoaster to work with it? If not why? At some point, perhaps either debian or ubuntu server. In either case we'd be applying the When in Rome principle, and use debian packages and distribution management methods (apt-get etc). At this point, I think I'd favor debian over ubuntu though, as debian will be using systemd (like RHEL), whereas ubuntu appears to be sticking with upstart, at least for the time being. That could all change by the time we get there though, which I don't anticipate to be any time this year. -- -Eric 'shubes' - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Eric Shubert e...@shubes.net wrote: On 02/13/2012 10:58 PM, Khan Mohamed Ashraf wrote: What about Ubuntu server, would the team consider getting qmailtoaster to work with it? If not why? At some point, perhaps either debian or ubuntu server. In either case we'd be applying the When in Rome principle, and use debian packages and distribution management methods (apt-get etc). At this point, I think I'd favor debian over ubuntu though, as debian will be using systemd (like RHEL), whereas ubuntu appears to be sticking with upstart, at least for the time being. That could all change by the time we get there though, which I don't anticipate to be any time this year. -- -Eric 'shubes' Thanks. That was illuminative. Ashraf --**--** - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group ( www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! --**--** - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscribe@** qmailtoaster.com qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-help@** qmailtoaster.com qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com -- Khan Md.
Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
+1 to RHEL/CentOS. I started some with RH9, and then migrato to Fedora Core 1. That was one of my biggest mistakes. In two years Fedora reach Core 5. That's when I decided to move to CentOS. Happy since that day. On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Khan Mohamed Ashraf kmash...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Eric Shubert e...@shubes.net wrote: On 02/13/2012 10:58 PM, Khan Mohamed Ashraf wrote: What about Ubuntu server, would the team consider getting qmailtoaster to work with it? If not why? At some point, perhaps either debian or ubuntu server. In either case we'd be applying the When in Rome principle, and use debian packages and distribution management methods (apt-get etc). At this point, I think I'd favor debian over ubuntu though, as debian will be using systemd (like RHEL), whereas ubuntu appears to be sticking with upstart, at least for the time being. That could all change by the time we get there though, which I don't anticipate to be any time this year. -- -Eric 'shubes' Thanks. That was illuminative. Ashraf --**--** - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group ( www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! --**--** - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscribe@** qmailtoaster.com qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-help@** qmailtoaster.com qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com -- Khan Md.
[qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
On 02/14/2012 01:23 AM, Johannes Weberhofer wrote: Dear Eric, First, I want to thank Jake for the work in the last years, sencond I want to thank you for taking over the project now. As said several times in the past, I am offering a qmailtoaster spin-off at openSUSE's build service. https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Aweberho%3Aqmailtoaster. I have packages all possible packages in a standard FHS compatible way. And removed the -qmailtoaster extensions from all the packages which were not really toaster-specific. Some of the packages are meanwhile in the main openSUSE repositories - Alexandre (aledr) is maintaining some of the packages, thank you Alexandre! I have re-worked all the packages to make them compiling on all possible operating systems. The only thing that's currently not compiling is simscan on CentOS/RHEL, as I did recently remove clamav and spamassassinto support the OS's versions (and CentOS/RHEL so not offer those in the standard distribution, when I'm right). The spec files have been completely rewritten, all dependencies have been corrected; On openSUSE 12.1 for example you can install it using the command line: zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/weberho:/qmailtoaster/openSUSE_12.1/ zypper in qmail-toaster simscan dovecot12 Updates are made using zypper up That's it when I remember right; all dependencies are automatically resolved and installed, down to perl packages. If you like to, have a look at the packages. You can see all codes via the above mentinoned web-interface. In case you like to cooperate: it would be a pleasure! Best regards, Johannes Thanks for reminding me about this, Johannes. I've taken a brief look at what's there, and I like some of the things you've done. I most definitely would like to leverage your work there. I think it behooves us to work together as much as possible. I'll also consider using OBS for a build environment going forward. I have a feeling that it may create as many problems as it solves, but we'll see. I think the QMT project needs a good dose of the KISS rule at this point, and to be honest, building rpms isn't much of a problem at this point. I'm not I'm not going to commit to supporting SuSE quite yet, but will give it all careful consideration. I can safely say that SuSE support will be largely dependent upon your and Alexandre's participation (and whoever else may step up and contribute), so there may be hope for it. We'll continue this topic on the devel list. Thanks again for your help and participation. P.S. Will you see that Alexandre gets subscribed to the devel list? ;) -- -Eric 'shubes' - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
Am 14.02.12 16:00, schrieb Eric Shubert: On 02/14/2012 01:23 AM, Johannes Weberhofer wrote: Dear Eric, First, I want to thank Jake for the work in the last years, sencond I want to thank you for taking over the project now. As said several times in the past, I am offering a qmailtoaster spin-off at openSUSE's build service. https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Aweberho%3Aqmailtoaster. I have packages all possible packages in a standard FHS compatible way. And removed the -qmailtoaster extensions from all the packages which were not really toaster-specific. Some of the packages are meanwhile in the main openSUSE repositories - Alexandre (aledr) is maintaining some of the packages, thank you Alexandre! I have re-worked all the packages to make them compiling on all possible operating systems. The only thing that's currently not compiling is simscan on CentOS/RHEL, as I did recently remove clamav and spamassassinto support the OS's versions (and CentOS/RHEL so not offer those in the standard distribution, when I'm right). The spec files have been completely rewritten, all dependencies have been corrected; On openSUSE 12.1 for example you can install it using the command line: zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/weberho:/qmailtoaster/openSUSE_12.1/ zypper in qmail-toaster simscan dovecot12 Updates are made using zypper up That's it when I remember right; all dependencies are automatically resolved and installed, down to perl packages. If you like to, have a look at the packages. You can see all codes via the above mentinoned web-interface. In case you like to cooperate: it would be a pleasure! Best regards, Johannes Thanks for reminding me about this, Johannes. I've taken a brief look at what's there, and I like some of the things you've done. I most definitely would like to leverage your work there. I think it behooves us to work together as much as possible. I'll also consider using OBS for a build environment going forward. I have a feeling that it may create as many problems as it solves, but we'll see. I think the QMT project needs a good dose of the KISS rule at this point, and to be honest, building rpms isn't much of a problem at this point. I'm not I'm not going to commit to supporting SuSE quite yet, but will give it all careful consideration. I can safely say that SuSE support will be largely dependent upon your and Alexandre's participation (and whoever else may step up and contribute), so there may be hope for it. We'll continue this topic on the devel list. Thanks again for your help and participation. P.S. Will you see that Alexandre gets subscribed to the devel list? ;) Eric, I have BCCd Alexandre, so he should get this mail, too. What I have done in the last years was simplifying the packages as much as possible. Specs are _much_ shorter now, normally it's not necessary to make changes to support new distribution versions, except when packaging changes (packages were split into -devel and -lib packages recently) or when the compilers or lint are uncovering problematic code. But those fixes are normally also good for older distributions. Johannes -- Johannes Weberhofer Weberhofer GmbH, Austria, Vienna - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
Sounds good to me as well. Thought I'd pop in here and throw my 2 cents in :-) goes back to his hole Scott - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
RE: [qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
/me plays wackamole 'Back into that hole Back!!' 2 Distros should be plenty for folks to deal with - helps yall refine the product and keep support efforts predictable. -Original Message- From: South Computers [mailto:i...@southcomputers.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 11:22 AM To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com Subject: Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY Sounds good to me as well. Thought I'd pop in here and throw my 2 cents in :-) goes back to his hole Scott - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com The information contained in this email is intended only for the person or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential or privileged material; unauthorized use of this information is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender and delete the material immediately. ~~ Thank you. - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Future Distros - RHEL/CentOS ONLY
On 02/15/12 0:27, James Beam wrote: /me plays wackamole 'Back into that hole Back!!' 2 Distros should be plenty for folks to deal with - helps yall refine the product and keep support efforts predictable. I agree with binary distribution so that can simplify updating system and I am also agree it based on RHEL/CentOS but I think 2 Distros is not plenty please take a look at iredmail.org it support 4 mainstream distro - rhel/centos/scientific - debian/ubuntu - opensuse - freebsd they can manage this because all the components they use are officially provided by the distros' repositories. (that's why I am also agree Eric decision to use dovecot, mailman as it's provided by distro and also will using SA/clamav from distro) what iredmail do, is provide a script that work on those distros, installing all components, then configured them and finally give the end users A REALLY NICE admin interface. no hassle maintaining the core softwares, repositories and infrastructures. but since we are qmailtoaster group we use qmail,vpopmail,qmailadmin,daemontools,ucspi,etc which is not officially supported by most distros that's why we need to maintain our core softwares, repositories and infrastructures. but I don't regret why my senior/consultant left me with qmailtoaster box because I learn a lot from it and the community is friendly and helpful :D - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
