Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop for Qubes 4+ and Heads

[Franz]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:36 AM, Chris Laprise  wrote:

> On 08/10/2018 08:25 PM, Franz wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Jonathan Brown <
>> jonbrownmaste...@gmail.com > wrote:
>>
>> How bad does the RAM issue affect your VM number you want to run vs
>> what you can run? Can it handle all the required VMs needed by
>> default along with both Whonix templates and split GPG?
>>
>> yes, a part from the system VMs, I usually run 6 VMs. When the machine is
>> fresh started I can easily reach 9 VMs.  But after a couple of days working
>> it doesn't let me start new VMs.
>>
>> How does it actually run performance wise?
>>
>>
>> Smooth and fast.
>>
>> But I never tried gaming or specially intensive tasks.
>>
>
> The ivy bridge CPUs are pretty fast.. the last generation before Intel cut
> max wattage in half with haswell.
>
> BTW there are little tricks to improving RAM usage, as my regular system
> has 8GB. Net and proxy VMs can usually be set to max 350MB RAM, and I find
> dom0+KDE works smoothly with max RAM at 1500MB. Most personal and work VMs
> do fine with max RAM at 1500 - 2000MB.
>
>
I tried reducing RAm allocated to various VMs and dom0  and it much
improved: I am able to get 27 concurring open VMs

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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop for Qubes 4+ and Heads

[Chris Laprise]

On 08/10/2018 08:25 PM, Franz wrote:



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Jonathan Brown 
mailto:jonbrownmaste...@gmail.com>> wrote:


How bad does the RAM issue affect your VM number you want to run vs
what you can run? Can it handle all the required VMs needed by
default along with both Whonix templates and split GPG? 



yes, a part from the system VMs, I usually run 6 VMs. When the machine 
is fresh started I can easily reach 9 VMs.  But after a couple of days 
working it doesn't let me start new VMs.


How does it actually run performance wise?


Smooth and fast.

But I never tried gaming or specially intensive tasks.


The ivy bridge CPUs are pretty fast.. the last generation before Intel 
cut max wattage in half with haswell.


BTW there are little tricks to improving RAM usage, as my regular system 
has 8GB. Net and proxy VMs can usually be set to max 350MB RAM, and I 
find dom0+KDE works smoothly with max RAM at 1500MB. Most personal and 
work VMs do fine with max RAM at 1500 - 2000MB.


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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop for Qubes 4+ and Heads

[Franz]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Jonathan Brown 
wrote:

> How bad does the RAM issue affect your VM number you want to run vs what
> you can run? Can it handle all the required VMs needed by default along
> with both Whonix templates and split GPG?
>

yes, a part from the system VMs, I usually run 6 VMs. When the machine is
fresh started I can easily reach 9 VMs.  But after a couple of days working
it doesn't let me start new VMs.


> How does it actually run performance wise?
>
>
Smooth and fast.

But I never tried gaming or specially intensive tasks.

Please do not top post and do not drop the qubes-users group

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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop for Qubes 4+ and Heads

[Franz]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:00 AM,  wrote:

> Heyo,
>
> I am looking for the best laptop for Qubes 4.0+ to take advantage of all
> the features along with Heads. I know Heads only officially supports Lenovo
> Thinkpad 230 but is that the best choice to future proof myself and take
> advantage of all security benefits?
>
> How is the 230 on the binary blob front and other firmware? Is there any
> other technology besides Heads that could enhance Qubes or provide
> better/additional protection?
>
> Here is more info on Heads http://osresearch.net/
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>
I own a couple of x230. Yes they support coreboot and Qubes runs pretty
well. Also intel ME can be blocked. The problems may be that max RAM is
16MB and CPU has only two cores. The first one is harder to accept for me
because I want to keep open more VMs than my RAM allows. But if you can
accept these limitations then x230 is pretty good. There are also new
motherboards on sale here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LENOVO-THINKPAD-X230-TABLET-SYSTEM-BOARD-04X3744-I7-3520-WITH-CPU-FAN/322898398982?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

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[qubes-users] Best Laptop for Qubes 4+ and Heads

[jonbrownmasterit]

Heyo,

I am looking for the best laptop for Qubes 4.0+ to take advantage of all the 
features along with Heads. I know Heads only officially supports Lenovo 
Thinkpad 230 but is that the best choice to future proof myself and take 
advantage of all security benefits?

How is the 230 on the binary blob front and other firmware? Is there any other 
technology besides Heads that could enhance Qubes or provide better/additional 
protection?

Here is more info on Heads http://osresearch.net/

Any help is greatly appreciated. 

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[qubes-users] Best laptop for qubes 4.0 ?

[rodgerdeny]

0. bios 

coreboot 

https://firmware.intel.com/learn/fsp/about-intel-fsp
http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html

1. cpu 

SLAT (EPT) Intel VT-x 

https://ark.intel.com/Search/FeatureFilter?productType=processors&ExtendedPageTables=true&MarketSegment=Mobile

2. ram 32-64gb 

3. video 

integrated intel HD or nVidia Quadro (?)

4. SSD 1TB +

5. Disabled micro and webcam

Is that correctly ? such a laptop will cost about 2000 dollars, maybe its top 
Thinkpad workstation, but coreboot flashes only T2xx/T4xx old models.

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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[cooloutac]

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 2:33:39 PM UTC-4, tai...@gmx.com wrote:
> On 06/27/2017 12:03 PM, Peter Thurner wrote:
> 
> > I'm running qubes on a Thinkpad T520 - the Laptop is way to big in my
> > opinion. I build 16 GB RAM into it with a 500GB SSD and it runs qubes
> > quite smoothly.
> >
> > What do you guys think about this Laptop?
> >
> > https://puri.sm/products/librem-13/
> >
> > With the i7 and 16 GB RAM it costs around 2k USD. Seems kind of legit in
> > my opinion. One has to buy an additional 3G card though, if one wants
> > one (and then one wont be able to add a second SSD).
> It is a ripoff, you would be better off buying a thinkpad x230 at least 
> then you would have an open init.
> Purisms version of coreboot is a wrapper layer that doesn't init any 
> hardware, the real work is done by the FSP binary blob.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem_laptop_purism_doesnt_believe_in/
> They will never be able to reverse engineer ME, and their hardware is 
> not at all "free" or "open source

i'm confused, amd is open source? at least you know you won't have 
compatibility problems with purism, presumably.

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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 06/27/2017 12:03 PM, Peter Thurner wrote:


I'm running qubes on a Thinkpad T520 - the Laptop is way to big in my
opinion. I build 16 GB RAM into it with a 500GB SSD and it runs qubes
quite smoothly.

What do you guys think about this Laptop?

https://puri.sm/products/librem-13/

With the i7 and 16 GB RAM it costs around 2k USD. Seems kind of legit in
my opinion. One has to buy an additional 3G card though, if one wants
one (and then one wont be able to add a second SSD).
It is a ripoff, you would be better off buying a thinkpad x230 at least 
then you would have an open init.
Purisms version of coreboot is a wrapper layer that doesn't init any 
hardware, the real work is done by the FSP binary blob.

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem_laptop_purism_doesnt_believe_in/
They will never be able to reverse engineer ME, and their hardware is 
not at all "free" or "open source"


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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[helpplshelp]

Anybody tried qubes on Alienware yet?

Quoting qubesgr...@gmail.com:


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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[Peter Thurner]

I see purism was discussed in this thread before - hence nvm :)


On 06/27/2017 06:03 PM, Peter Thurner wrote:
> I'm running qubes on a Thinkpad T520 - the Laptop is way to big in my
> opinion. I build 16 GB RAM into it with a 500GB SSD and it runs qubes
> quite smoothly.
>
> What do you guys think about this Laptop?
>
> https://puri.sm/products/librem-13/
>
> With the i7 and 16 GB RAM it costs around 2k USD. Seems kind of legit in
> my opinion. One has to buy an additional 3G card though, if one wants
> one (and then one wont be able to add a second SSD).
>
>
> On 06/27/2017 05:22 PM, Chris Laprise wrote:
>> On 06/27/2017 01:16 AM, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
>>> I have friends happily running qubes on other thinkpads (X230, T430,
>>> and various editions of the X1 carbon), and even one happily running
>>> qubes on a macbook. One friend ran it on a dell and gave up due to bad
>>> hw support (graphics & suspend/resume issues) and no patience for
>>> messing with kernel versions, etc. YMMV.
>> Dell were the most notorious cost-cutters for a long time. But in all
>> fairness, I think one must discern between the consumer and business
>> product lines when discussing compatibility issues and quality.
>>
>> So even though I have a warm spot for Thinkpads, I also recognize that
>> other 'primary' PC brands -- namely Dell and HP -- have business
>> laptops that fare well. And I can't imagine why anyone would want to
>> spend hours and days of their time trying to get
>> understandably-finnicky software like Qubes running on whatever
>> consumer models happen to be laying around. (Well, I can imagine, but
>> I know it has to do with an unexamined delusion that "PC hardware"
>> represents some kind of blank slate that Windows just happens to run
>> on instead of the reality that they are Windows-focused and full of
>> undocumented shortcuts and bugs that greatly impact non-Windows systems.)
>>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
>
> Peter Thurner
>
> --
>
> Blunix GmbH - Consulting for Linux Hosting 24/7
>
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> 10999 Berlin, Germany
>
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> W: https://www.blunix.org
>
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> CEO: Brian Wiborg & Peter Thurner
>

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,


Peter Thurner

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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[Peter Thurner]

I'm running qubes on a Thinkpad T520 - the Laptop is way to big in my
opinion. I build 16 GB RAM into it with a 500GB SSD and it runs qubes
quite smoothly.

What do you guys think about this Laptop?

https://puri.sm/products/librem-13/

With the i7 and 16 GB RAM it costs around 2k USD. Seems kind of legit in
my opinion. One has to buy an additional 3G card though, if one wants
one (and then one wont be able to add a second SSD).


On 06/27/2017 05:22 PM, Chris Laprise wrote:
> On 06/27/2017 01:16 AM, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
>> I have friends happily running qubes on other thinkpads (X230, T430,
>> and various editions of the X1 carbon), and even one happily running
>> qubes on a macbook. One friend ran it on a dell and gave up due to bad
>> hw support (graphics & suspend/resume issues) and no patience for
>> messing with kernel versions, etc. YMMV.
>
> Dell were the most notorious cost-cutters for a long time. But in all
> fairness, I think one must discern between the consumer and business
> product lines when discussing compatibility issues and quality.
>
> So even though I have a warm spot for Thinkpads, I also recognize that
> other 'primary' PC brands -- namely Dell and HP -- have business
> laptops that fare well. And I can't imagine why anyone would want to
> spend hours and days of their time trying to get
> understandably-finnicky software like Qubes running on whatever
> consumer models happen to be laying around. (Well, I can imagine, but
> I know it has to do with an unexamined delusion that "PC hardware"
> represents some kind of blank slate that Windows just happens to run
> on instead of the reality that they are Windows-focused and full of
> undocumented shortcuts and bugs that greatly impact non-Windows systems.)
>

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,


Peter Thurner

--

Blunix GmbH - Consulting for Linux Hosting 24/7

Glogauer Straße 21
10999 Berlin, Germany

P: +49 30 / 120 839 90
W: https://www.blunix.org

AG Charlottenburg, HRB 174906 B
CEO: Brian Wiborg & Peter Thurner

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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[Chris Laprise]

On 06/27/2017 01:16 AM, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:

I have friends happily running qubes on other thinkpads (X230, T430,
and various editions of the X1 carbon), and even one happily running
qubes on a macbook. One friend ran it on a dell and gave up due to bad
hw support (graphics & suspend/resume issues) and no patience for
messing with kernel versions, etc. YMMV.


Dell were the most notorious cost-cutters for a long time. But in all 
fairness, I think one must discern between the consumer and business 
product lines when discussing compatibility issues and quality.


So even though I have a warm spot for Thinkpads, I also recognize that 
other 'primary' PC brands -- namely Dell and HP -- have business laptops 
that fare well. And I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend hours 
and days of their time trying to get understandably-finnicky software 
like Qubes running on whatever consumer models happen to be laying 
around. (Well, I can imagine, but I know it has to do with an unexamined 
delusion that "PC hardware" represents some kind of blank slate that 
Windows just happens to run on instead of the reality that they are 
Windows-focused and full of undocumented shortcuts and bugs that greatly 
impact non-Windows systems.)


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https://twitter.com/ttaskett
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Re: [qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 3:50 PM,   wrote:
> I know this question has been asked many times but there is still no 
> definitive answer. The Purism laptops do not have TPM support and in the HCL 
> list there is not a machine that ticks every box without issues. What 
> machines are the devs using? What laptop does Joanna use?

"best" is subject to one's perspective, so I don't think you'll get a
"definitive" answer. For example, which do you care most about: raw
performance, battery life, the openness of your boot sequence,
something else?

>From my personal experience and that other Qubes users I know IRL, any
used (to give hardware support a year or so to settle) X-series or
T-series thinkpads seem to hit a good balance between compute power,
hardware support, and price. The fact that they're popular among
hackers means they get more attention for hardware support (including
coreboot support for select models).

Personally, my day-to-day machine is a thinkpad x1 carbon with an i7
and 16gb ram. It took about a year, but hardware support is more or
less perfect now, with the exception of suspend/resume still failing a
couple times a month (not often enough for me to care, and I suspect
due to an embedded controller issue and not linux/xen). Battery life
is ~6 hours, but my workload is probably much heavier than the typical
user (usually 10-20 VMs running at a time, lots of DispVM starts, and
lots of compiling). The CPU is powerful enough to handle my workload
without issue.

I have friends happily running qubes on other thinkpads (X230, T430,
and various editions of the X1 carbon), and even one happily running
qubes on a macbook. One friend ran it on a dell and gave up due to bad
hw support (graphics & suspend/resume issues) and no patience for
messing with kernel versions, etc. YMMV.

Cheers,
Jean-Philippe

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[qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[qubesgroup]

Any one got an X270 or Kaby Lake machine?

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[qubes-users] Best Laptop For Qubes

[qubesgroup]

I know this question has been asked many times but there is still no definitive 
answer. The Purism laptops do not have TPM support and in the HCL list there is 
not a machine that ticks every box without issues. What machines are the devs 
using? What laptop does Joanna use?

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