Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts
Hello Leeteqxv, if I understood you correct, what your clientele want's to have is constant improvements for Qubes OS. They don't want to compile or test things. This is a subscription based model, where people pay the Qubes OS team for their ongoing work rather than for an existing product. Furthermore, I agree with you "memberships-based support services (premium communities) is a good business model for" Qubes OS. However, I think that testing new features and introducing new features can be done together with the open source community and Qubes OS could offer a LTS version for money. LTS version could focus on guaranteeing backports and fixes for specific LTS version over a period of 3 or more years, whereas the community support will only be offered for a year or till the next version of Qubes OS appears. I think the Qubes OS team should focus on getting paid for their ongoing work rather than Qubes OS as a product and the only way to do this is to offer monthly or yearly subscriptions for customers and additionally support memberships for IT professionals (consultants, IT departments etc.). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/e8d451fa-9131-4977-a651-e105842fcc13%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts
On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Leeteqxv wrote: > On 15/12/16 23:46, je wrote: > >> >> > I do not believe that developing a commercial operating system >> based on an >> > open source foundation will pay off on a long run. >> >> Is there a specific reason you think it will not? Just curious. >> >> >> 1. Selling a license provides a one time payment. Even if you are able to >> sell 100_000 licenses for 40 you would earn >> 4_000_000, but the same companies will not buy a license the year after >> that. Which means no constant income for the long run. >> >> Most companies will stick with one version of the product till they >> really have a reason to upgrade. >> Because, the costs for upgrading are actually higher than the costs of >> the license and upgrades involve the risk of causing >> disruption (problems during the upgrade, which blocks employees from >> getting their work done. Which again means I loose money). >> With other words Qubes OS will be stuck with one version for years. >> >> 2. The simple question is how can you sell a product which contains >> mostly GPL licensed code (Xen, Linux Kernel) >> which everybody can download and compile for free? >> >> RHEL sells support subscriptions. They offer support (10 years >> backporting, customer support etc.) and most important they offer a >> platform for other business software. >> The work RedHat constantly invests in their RHEL can not be easily >> replicated and that is the reason why CentOS is not a competitor. >> >> 3. Security is a process and not a product. As an enterprise customer I >> want to have constant updates and upgrades, security bulletins and other >> security information. >> I want to know if DirtyCOW, hardbleed or other security flaws affect my >> business if I use Qubes OS or not? >> >> Furthermore, I believe that the Qubes OS team and ITL does not understand >> what Qubes OS could offer on an enterprise level. >> -- >> > I am working with IT strategy myself. Enterprise needs are clearly > completely different from SMB, etc., so in that sense we are talking about > two entirely different strategies and support models. I think Qubes should > pursue both, but with two distinctly different teams in charge, with the > suitable understanding of each area. > > As the whole industry (and society at large) continues to mature into > various ways of readiiness for Open-Source things, I am quite sure that we > will see a growing market among SMB's that are willing to pay for support > and related peace-of-mind aspects even if it is possible to compile > everything oneself. It is worth paying to "delegate" both such manual work > and to avoid keeping up on the related competence race. > > A license is one thing, perhaps even limited in time, but an accompanying > support agreement is yet another. Both are needed, IMO. > > There is also a middle ground here - Take for example me: > I would like to offer entry-level services to clients, who all will pay > the license + pay for my services. In turn, I want to be a > professional-level client of Qubes support, so that I can get their backup > when there is something I run into which I cannot answer or solve properly > for my entry-level clientele. So I would be willing to pay a professional > support membership of some sorts. > > I strongly believe memberships-based support services (premium > communities) is a good business model for this, atop of whatever licensing > scheme one may have. > > Agree with that. On the license side also a mixed scheme may be interesting. For example there is an obvious need of some development directed to the very special enterprise needs. This additional enterprise development may be kept closed-source for a limited time, perhaps 5 years rather than the international 50 years of copyright law. During this limited time this additional software may be available under a non-disclosure agreement for the licensee to check it or even compile it. Best fran > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "qubes-users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms > gid/qubes-users/fe5ecfd0-8869-2c19-6309-e870f8377eef%40leeteq.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/CAPzH-qDP3QAV6-gYRbbh3bQ5a%2B1CA3uUXgajV9FAv5S5sKVD0A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/
Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts
On 15/12/16 23:46, je wrote: > I do not believe that developing a commercial operating system based on an > open source foundation will pay off on a long run. Is there a specific reason you think it will not? Just curious. 1. Selling a license provides a one time payment. Even if you are able to sell 100_000 licenses for 40 you would earn 4_000_000, but the same companies will not buy a license the year after that. Which means no constant income for the long run. Most companies will stick with one version of the product till they really have a reason to upgrade. Because, the costs for upgrading are actually higher than the costs of the license and upgrades involve the risk of causing disruption (problems during the upgrade, which blocks employees from getting their work done. Which again means I loose money). With other words Qubes OS will be stuck with one version for years. 2. The simple question is how can you sell a product which contains mostly GPL licensed code (Xen, Linux Kernel) which everybody can download and compile for free? RHEL sells support subscriptions. They offer support (10 years backporting, customer support etc.) and most important they offer a platform for other business software. The work RedHat constantly invests in their RHEL can not be easily replicated and that is the reason why CentOS is not a competitor. 3. Security is a process and not a product. As an enterprise customer I want to have constant updates and upgrades, security bulletins and other security information. I want to know if DirtyCOW, hardbleed or other security flaws affect my business if I use Qubes OS or not? Furthermore, I believe that the Qubes OS team and ITL does not understand what Qubes OS could offer on an enterprise level. -- I am working with IT strategy myself. Enterprise needs are clearly completely different from SMB, etc., so in that sense we are talking about two entirely different strategies and support models. I think Qubes should pursue both, but with two distinctly different teams in charge, with the suitable understanding of each area. As the whole industry (and society at large) continues to mature into various ways of readiiness for Open-Source things, I am quite sure that we will see a growing market among SMB's that are willing to pay for support and related peace-of-mind aspects even if it is possible to compile everything oneself. It is worth paying to "delegate" both such manual work and to avoid keeping up on the related competence race. A license is one thing, perhaps even limited in time, but an accompanying support agreement is yet another. Both are needed, IMO. There is also a middle ground here - Take for example me: I would like to offer entry-level services to clients, who all will pay the license + pay for my services. In turn, I want to be a professional-level client of Qubes support, so that I can get their backup when there is something I run into which I cannot answer or solve properly for my entry-level clientele. So I would be willing to pay a professional support membership of some sorts. I strongly believe memberships-based support services (premium communities) is a good business model for this, atop of whatever licensing scheme one may have. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/fe5ecfd0-8869-2c19-6309-e870f8377eef%40leeteq.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 2016-12-04 02:27, Zbigniew Łukasiak wrote: > On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 3:41 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA512 >> >> On 2016-12-04 00:08, Zbigniew Łukasiak wrote: >>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 6:13:35 PM UTC-5, Andrew David Wong wrote: > So that's what I'm thinking, maybe it would be good for the > "evangelization" of Qubes to make some very simple, brief, and > to-the-point videos and howto's? > Yes, certainly. Would you be willing to help us with that? :) >>> >>> I am new to Qubes - just installed it on my computer. I can note the >>> problems that I encounter. Where to send this? >>> >>> Z. >>> >> >> Please take a look at this page: >> >> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/reporting-bugs/ >> > > Well - this is not about bugs but about surprises. From my experiences > with other OS projects I learned that people quickly forget what was > difficult at the beginning. It is seasoned developers who make > documentation who have already internalized many details - so the docs > often lack information. It is useful to include the newbies in > writing the docs. - surely they cannot write the answers - but they > can note the questions :) And they can also mark the areas of > difficulties. This is the kind of feedback that I had in mind. > > Cheers, > Zbigniew > I understand. Please feel free to help us by contributing to the documentation by following these guidelines: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/doc-guidelines/ P.S. - Please keep the mailing list CCed, unless there's a need for privacy: https://www.qubes-os.org/mailing-lists/#specific-rules-and-notes - -- Andrew David Wong (Axon) Community Manager, Qubes OS https://www.qubes-os.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYQ/QBAAoJENtN07w5UDAwrFkP/joAsy9FmBT+Ik/PHak1gV7Y NbvbSoTxrc2AABqIHZzY1FvwJ24qn70N/klIYBN9NlkjZH3jGyt1+z+hBOqMzAnG CpPC+z1xetyH5fwVgGqL4bffzcW6M9hfcN7oImTeyI7L3vGdhs57aCMVc0a8BOsN xiDFYTGyiROjkfpu4+12pzQVaB2IT2vRHAnUQOO8yw3aFKAtcY0+uVp11zinLtsq KPIehVlouXgpAHcopq2YpzQc7qBr06WUe31modMF+PKGXGDA0MNaQxTRi5M26BX5 IbVMHC1o4J7/6bqYZEmrljpX8GHk7hMeodiLWhzs7j9KtA1TMVSCwgFOGNXbNffh C2olBHvvgyEYxRxS9RslNEZa7wiXgliPZjwMhNpfOmj773J7t31irwqlrGMnK5c0 0DChEWsTPQdZfqy0x+QAEr5K7Fwj8pdxzAR0HeplYXusyitUNFVC/3bmliZv0mmI yFSyW7rfQDySDJuxAu0rPGTX62mqplr2HGdsfwoy9V3KF42ZQs4V2rMuWLMkuzAZ PiezOPf4klJnL/0uokCV0nHoFrPMcn3a8ocnOo4OHEZ2+OGKMW6ZQND+XQ0NNa1p MWOQOTaXG8KVglkwAQsktj/P5H2siZBs9z77/br/LtGKbdQfqultEGQZDK2EPVSQ fwDrViAzt0IpmPeDpumt =JKJ2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/b58ce4d3-d69c-f987-6969-ddcf1348fb95%40qubes-os.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 2016-12-04 00:08, Zbigniew Łukasiak wrote: > On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 6:13:35 PM UTC-5, Andrew David Wong wrote: >>> So that's what I'm thinking, maybe it would be good for the >>> "evangelization" of Qubes to make some very simple, brief, and to-the-point >>> videos and howto's? >>> >> >> Yes, certainly. Would you be willing to help us with that? :) > > I am new to Qubes - just installed it on my computer. I can note the problems > that I encounter. Where to send this? > > Z. > Please take a look at this page: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/reporting-bugs/ - -- Andrew David Wong (Axon) Community Manager, Qubes OS https://www.qubes-os.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYQ9bQAAoJENtN07w5UDAwsxcQAIm/HcgRTL78y6xXxVry8uC0 pLN5qR++46uuGQ+5pIT9puuiSZ0ik9pXx0kuCbVPJAWDnD63hfP7l2so74eifaLp 7Z0ZFq/6iR20+s9Cw8zqhkwhtS0eLIZMt+xcLzcWJ77Dk+4OT8j3wYfWxROXZ99y sLsyp3EQJYC1XOpEeP+r9DnELvwGkhPMEjlQpLh1zQ27JuLhrziYdiNCAYKNYxVb jx2Vsa2BAThXY6J0wIeQdB2sqb3018uB2g69MEyxMdaRhVz1FiMbWXmuFDOBCV7q FJlZsB/+6xVeZKtzqOGJ+Z8zwhENunPsosEuYTJvMwvGNDlAhCqJvbDtniCyLn6c kbWE2KPFOK+WJZ47wq2IU1a7w732MKSouv5IorY0Be3yaa+XQBvezkgs78hooKIe InPQGV5yyAyhIsOpH1g0H8I3ULsRMqXzW8FKZdpgCRwNt4b79hHzJ7i1rj39tZoZ YHfIHjuaExgLLHza1n/9tGh4u64i01G+u3Owf7pu/u3fTCeHUFgvzhixW4ce7MaD ZXSy1p5lJePdjWxMmhGYeu+brtM7UxO5eIrDzfmxBlBMImc7kByZKrV7owQQpYW0 7JNsWuC4i8KmhBunR6fJzm9tdzFKkpcEEH6WMflAtOF4ovsdioTO0dCDhrfr6J+R QP2R/A6LHWwM1Igf+cXr =gSbS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/034a1390-e09e-dee4-c590-41eec48f7efc%40qubes-os.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Re: [qubes-devel] Re: Announcement: Qubes OS Begins Commercialization and Community Funding Efforts
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 2016-12-03 06:14, Kopimi Security wrote: > On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 12:13:35 AM UTC+1, Andrew David Wong wrote: >> On 12/02/16 11:17, Kopimi Security wrote: >>> I'm excited about this, and wish to support Qubes. >>> My first thoughts are "How can Qubes reach a broader community", and "Can >>> the HOWTO's be made more approachable?". >>> For example, the section 'assigning-devices' on the /doc/, didn't get into >>> how to actually use a mouse with a sys-usb qube, before at the very end. >>> And there, the way it was written gave the impression of giving the answer >>> almost as an afterthought, as if it should have been obvious to everybody. >>> As such, it reads as it was written by somebody "too close to the problem". >>> Somebody being so familiar with the system that outsiders' inability to >>> grasp the "obvious", escapes him. Or her. >>> This is not a unique issue for ITL though, the same problem pops up >>> everywhere when highly technical minded people try to convey something to >>> people who just wants to be *users*! >>> >>> So that's what I'm thinking, maybe it would be good for the >>> "evangelization" of Qubes to make some very simple, brief, and to-the-point >>> videos and howto's? >>> >> >> Yes, certainly. Would you be willing to help us with that? :) >> > > Absolutely! > Would it be okay if I started with some of the /doc/-articles? > I've noticed that some of them could benefit from an update, as an example > the one on Kali (https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/pentesting/kali/). > > Please let me know if this is something that I could help out with. > Yes. Please take a look here: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/doc-guidelines/ - -- Andrew David Wong (Axon) Community Manager, Qubes OS https://www.qubes-os.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYQ9XZAAoJENtN07w5UDAwATEP/263uVXxXi7NxUjPJHpgExfN L+FFMkt9IcDDwJCmaBVxqOuZOAKYq4EzgFOt6n4QXObJVUgfu1i8WmmMVpBRhQ9q swVfjTKQH7hsICT5xRriLD8erDm0NzEB2lRnv0kvhJVlFHWHiv5/UrZ6S2+v3GmV wTjfTtaptgyJ5HMEK6Wh2OjYktKSNEf9EAU6CEKHtR7JLawRIvYBERPOdHeUS4Sh FOsOSy2ke1jITX39YXLzx3Yv8pd/56KDUjArjqmtUWsndt9YJvLjU6aSu2z+FhiZ aubpamsTsUtd9znbt/YSQcK+hyVQjk15QQtEqCTU04A3mhKKkYQKDM6YZBxxF7EO 2XRSxB29fKD8OqZiHwHgF8KC8EPxZwkfWYiR6CwPCoaT3u/KYyWjPdWBUcEcF94q l8fzBPCbC/jAm7/tBUTSiHjB6xroElW6GHTr/fsL8Zee+15gfB12kiL+dtsFvpFA FYxV0Or7f4HKXrGoOQOBqxOHWJXDptw+iMyClpDRhuhSu38krieLQbt0nK9xhdny AnXLzLP149+jTzKKjfvLg9JEwtZfKErrPFqez+BTKuSubzDofRi5sUquRJUbFeAi QbbTSCeLm1oQnq8/Eb/Z+C9tj+3ruyuFISIAIrLUulCbsSkynVoo5KwfBxNQ/ukF vGxZRIhSWUO0837609OI =FFM1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/54e6-5b9a-e482-264a-23ee3b783c79%40qubes-os.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
