Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Marc Roos]

 
And how would that relevant?
 
 >
 >Looks like they do better than us in some aspects.
 >
 >
 >
 >>
 >> > Remember that github  stopped using the term "master" to describe 
 >> > the
 >> main branch of a repository for example.
 >>
 >> Github is some sort of national language institute, with a board of 
 >> literary, sociology, psychology professors?
 >>
 >> Afaik is github owned by Microsoft, and Microsoft is known to be an 
 >> offender of peoples rights. Who the @#$@#$ cares what they do?
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Charles Novaes de Santana]

Looks like they do better than us in some aspects.

On Friday, November 20, 2020, Marc Roos  wrote:

>
> > Remember that github  stopped using the term "master" to describe the
> main branch of a repository for example.
>
> Github is some sort of national language institute, with a board of
> literary, sociology, psychology professors?
>
> Afaik is github owned by Microsoft, and Microsoft is known to be an
> offender of peoples rights. Who the @#$@#$ cares what they do?
>
>
>

-- 
Um axé! :)

--
Charles Novaes de Santana, PhD
https://github.com/cndesantana

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[John via R-help]

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 23:27:29 +0100
Heinz Tuechler  wrote:

> One may remember that people who might feel offended by "Indian Red"
> (Native Americans) make up less than 0.5 percent of all "Indians".
> It is hardly the fault of the people of India that Native Americans
> were called Indians by an Italian navigator who thought he had landed
> in India.

I have worked with and know or knew probably somewhere near 100
American Indians.  None of them were "offended" by "Indian," most
referred to themselves as "Indian," particularly when few outsiders
could even pronounce their tribal names.  Several of them referred me to
the works and words of Russel Means, Ogalala Lakota, an actor and
activist, who mocked the use of phrases such as "Native American" as
silly, and easily as offensive and racist in its failure to distinguish
among tribal peoples as any such sweeping label could be.

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[John via R-help]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 17:35:41 -0900
Lainey Gallenberg  wrote:

Lainey,

Assumptions are always fraught.  Your assumption about the "meaning" of
Indian Red is simply wrong.  Indian red is named for a lateritic soil in
India.  It isn't racist, and I have American Indian friends who have
expressed disappointment at the historical facts.  They also prefer
"American Indian" to "Native American."  So, what to do??? 

JWDougherty

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Abby Spurdle]

> Surely these colors can be changed
> to something less offensive- my suggestion is "blush."
> How can I find out who to contact about making this happen?

Yes, they can.

blush <- "#CD5C5C"
mycols <- function () { #your code here...

I note that:

(1)
Changing existing code (esp in base packages) creates considerable problems.
Because code (not just CRAN packages) may depend on whatever is being changed.

(2)
The word "Blush" may also offend someone.
Blush is a type of makeup, often tested on animals.
Hence, we go around in a circle.

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Heinz Tuechler]

inline - David Wright wrote on 19.11.2020 12:39:

Appropriation of Indian Red as 'Chestnut' (or other alternative) will
be viewed by some as 'making appropriate' the label for a colour, and
no doubt by other groups as cultural theft by excising reference to
its origin.

Seems the best option is to recognise the actual etymology carries no
semblance of offense whatsoever, and leave well alone.



One may remember that people who might feel offended by "Indian Red"
(Native Americans) make up less than 0.5 percent of all "Indians".
It is hardly the fault of the people of India that Native Americans were
called Indians by an Italian navigator who thought he had landed in India.

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[David Wright]

Appropriation of Indian Red as 'Chestnut' (or other alternative) will
be viewed by some as 'making appropriate' the label for a colour, and
no doubt by other groups as cultural theft by excising reference to
its origin.

Seems the best option is to recognise the actual etymology carries no
semblance of offense whatsoever, and leave well alone.

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 at 10:44, Mark Hall  wrote:
>
>
> And then there is also the issue of some people seeing it offensive and 
> others not seeing it offensive (and both camps are in the minority group).  
> Case inpoint is look at the term being used for self-identification with 
> California Native American groups List of Federally-Recognized Tribes in CA | 
> Links and Resources
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> List of Federally-Recognized Tribes in CA | Links and Resources
>
> The Indian Health Service (IHS), an agency within the Department of Health 
> and Human Services, is responsible fo...
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
> I also distinctly remember in the NAGPRA brouha of 2008 on the UC Berkeley 
> campus when the Metis chancellor of UCB at the time told several groups the 
> term Indian was derogatory and shouldn't be used--a variety of California 
> Native Americans gave him a piece of their mind in no uncertain terms...
> Best, Mark E Hall
> On Tuesday, November 17, 2020, 7:22:33 AM PST, T. A. Milne via R-help 
>  wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100Jim Lemon  
>  wrote:
>
> > Hi Elaine,There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence 
> > everywhere. Idon't think that it does anything against racism, sexism 
> > orantidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexiconto 
> > comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of theuser. It is 
> > the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing thewords wastes your 
> > time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,and gives the real offender 
> > time to find another epithet.
> >
> Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have saidthat! Your 
> posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,alongside Dr. 
> Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".cheers,Rolf
> -- Honorary Research FellowDepartment of StatisticsUniversity of 
> AucklandPhone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276
>
> To Rolf's excellent example, I would add Mandy Rice-Davies' immortal words 
> from the witness box.
>
>
>
> - T. Arthur Milne
>
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> __
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> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Mark Hall]

 
And then there is also the issue of some people seeing it offensive and others 
not seeing it offensive (and both camps are in the minority group).  Case 
inpoint is look at the term being used for self-identification with California 
Native American groups List of Federally-Recognized Tribes in CA | Links and 
Resources

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
List of Federally-Recognized Tribes in CA | Links and Resources

The Indian Health Service (IHS), an agency within the Department of Health and 
Human Services, is responsible fo...
 |

 |

 |


I also distinctly remember in the NAGPRA brouha of 2008 on the UC Berkeley 
campus when the Metis chancellor of UCB at the time told several groups the 
term Indian was derogatory and shouldn't be used--a variety of California 
Native Americans gave him a piece of their mind in no uncertain terms...
Best, Mark E Hall
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020, 7:22:33 AM PST, T. A. Milne via R-help 
 wrote:  
 
 
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100Jim Lemon  
 wrote:

> Hi Elaine,There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. 
> Idon't think that it does anything against racism, sexism 
> orantidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexiconto 
> comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of theuser. It is the 
> intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing thewords wastes your time, 
> blames those who use the words harmlessly,and gives the real offender time to 
> find another epithet.
>
Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have saidthat! Your 
posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,alongside Dr. 
Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".cheers,Rolf
-- Honorary Research FellowDepartment of StatisticsUniversity of AucklandPhone: 
+64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276

To Rolf's excellent example, I would add Mandy Rice-Davies' immortal words from 
the witness box.



- T. Arthur Milne


    [[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Bernard Comcast]

If the word Indian refers to India, the place of origin for the color, then 
referring to it by this name gives an acknowledgement to this fact and I would 
have assumed such acknowledgement  is a positive thing.

Bernard
Sent from my iPhone so please excuse the spelling!"

> On Nov 17, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Spencer Graves 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Might it be appropriate to raise that question on the Talk page 
> associated with the Wikipedia article on "Indian red (color)":
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)
> 
> 
>  Many Wikimedian are generally sympathetic to discussions of
> political correctness and similar topics.  If the name of that article were 
> changed, then it should be a lot easier to pursue a similar name change 
> elsewhere.
> 
> 
>  Spencer Graves
> 
> 
>> On 2020-11-17 15:25, Mitchell Maltenfort wrote:
>> What about just amputating the final "n?"
>> "Indian" might mean one of two things, but "India" is pretty distinct.
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 4:10 PM T. A. Milne via R-help 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Apologies to the list for continuing a thread which is clearly off-topic.
>>> However, contacting the maintainer of an R package to complain about this
>>> specific color name seems ill-considered.
>>> 
>>> 1)  The name "indian red" is a part of widely-used color schemes
>>> everywhere, not just in R.  It's the color defined as:
>>> 
>>> "The color indianred / Indian red with hexadecimal color code #cd5c5c is a
>>> shade of red. In the RGB color model #cd5c5c is comprised of 80.39% red,
>>> 36.08% green and 36.08% blue. In the HSL color space #cd5c5c has a hue of
>>> 0° (degrees), 53% saturation and 58% lightness. This color has an
>>> approximate wavelength of 611.37 nm."
>>> 
>>> https://encycolorpedia.com/cd5c5c
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2)  The "indian" in the color name refers to ferric oxide, historically
>>> sourced from India.  Per Wikipedia:
>>> 
>>> "The name Indian red derives from the red laterite soil found in India,
>>> which is composed of naturally occurring iron oxides.[citation needed] The
>>> first recorded use of Indian red as a color term in English was in 1672.[3"
>>> 
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Given the name refers to the locus of the ferric oxide source, It isn't
>>> obvious that any particular group should be offended by the name.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --  T. Arthur Milne
>>> 
>>> 
 On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner 
>>> wrote:
 
 On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
 Jim Lemon  wrote:
 
 
> Hi Elaine,
> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.
> 
 Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
 that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
 alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".
 
 cheers,
 
 Rolf
 
>>> You know, I wouldn’t have continued this thread (which has now wandered
>>> off topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel
>>> now like it’s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering
>>> moderating me after letting these posts by):
>>> 
>>> That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly
>>> by white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a
>>> variety of reasons, and this “pretending no one else on earth exists” kind
>>> of stuff is at least some part of the reason. The question at issue here
>>> aside, white men complaining about people finding racism or sexism
>>> everywhere they look doesn’t pass the sniff test. Most or all of these
>>> things that people are reporting as offensive are being reported by people
>>> you’re clearly not listening to.
>>> 
>>> Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize,
>>> regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it’s the right
>>> thing to do. If someone tells you “that thing you’re saying is offensive or
>>> is hurting me” and you say “I didn’t mean it,” and then keep right on doing
>>> it, what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone
>>> that is being “blamed,” as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do
>>> better next time.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> #BlackLivesMatter
>>> 
>>> || \\UTGERS, |---*O*---
>>> ||_// the State  | Ryan Novosielski - novos...@rutgers.edu
>>> || \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus
>>> ||  \\of NJ  | Office of Advanced Research 

Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Boris Steipe]

I would not be optimistic about a change - the naming scheme is a community 
standard, and the community is VERY large; this scheme is employed in thousands 
of software assets. Ultimately it goes back to X11 color naming in the 
eighties. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11_color_names for details on how 
it was created and to get a sense where else the scheme and its derivatives are 
being used. 

AFAIAC R is simply following standard usage, which is generally a Good Thing - 
except for the inertia this creates to maintain outdated standards - at times.


B.


> On 2020-11-18, at 07:57, Spencer Graves  
> wrote:
> 
> EXTERNAL EMAIL:  Treat content with extra caution.
> 
> Might it be appropriate to raise that question on the Talk page
> associated with the Wikipedia article on "Indian red (color)":
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)
> 
> 
> Many Wikimedian are generally sympathetic to discussions of
> political correctness and similar topics.  If the name of that article
> were changed, then it should be a lot easier to pursue a similar name
> change elsewhere.
> 
> 
> Spencer Graves
> 
> 
> On 2020-11-17 15:25, Mitchell Maltenfort wrote:
>> What about just amputating the final "n?"
>> 
>> "Indian" might mean one of two things, but "India" is pretty distinct.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 4:10 PM T. A. Milne via R-help 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Apologies to the list for continuing a thread which is clearly off-topic.
>>> However, contacting the maintainer of an R package to complain about this
>>> specific color name seems ill-considered.
>>> 
>>> 1)  The name "indian red" is a part of widely-used color schemes
>>> everywhere, not just in R.  It's the color defined as:
>>> 
>>> "The color indianred / Indian red with hexadecimal color code #cd5c5c is a
>>> shade of red. In the RGB color model #cd5c5c is comprised of 80.39% red,
>>> 36.08% green and 36.08% blue. In the HSL color space #cd5c5c has a hue of
>>> 0° (degrees), 53% saturation and 58% lightness. This color has an
>>> approximate wavelength of 611.37 nm."
>>> 
>>> https://encycolorpedia.com/cd5c5c
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2)  The "indian" in the color name refers to ferric oxide, historically
>>> sourced from India.  Per Wikipedia:
>>> 
>>> "The name Indian red derives from the red laterite soil found in India,
>>> which is composed of naturally occurring iron oxides.[citation needed] The
>>> first recorded use of Indian red as a color term in English was in 1672.[3"
>>> 
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Given the name refers to the locus of the ferric oxide source, It isn't
>>> obvious that any particular group should be offended by the name.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --  T. Arthur Milne
>>> 
>>> 
 On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner 
>>> wrote:
 
 On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
 Jim Lemon  wrote:
 
 
> Hi Elaine,
> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.
> 
 Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
 that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
 alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".
 
 cheers,
 
 Rolf
 
>>> You know, I wouldn’t have continued this thread (which has now wandered
>>> off topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel
>>> now like it’s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering
>>> moderating me after letting these posts by):
>>> 
>>> That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly
>>> by white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a
>>> variety of reasons, and this “pretending no one else on earth exists” kind
>>> of stuff is at least some part of the reason. The question at issue here
>>> aside, white men complaining about people finding racism or sexism
>>> everywhere they look doesn’t pass the sniff test. Most or all of these
>>> things that people are reporting as offensive are being reported by people
>>> you’re clearly not listening to.
>>> 
>>> Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize,
>>> regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it’s the right
>>> thing to do. If someone tells you “that thing you’re saying is offensive or
>>> is hurting me” and you say “I didn’t mean it,” and then keep right on doing
>>> it, what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone
>>> that is being “blamed,” as you put it, is being asked to 

Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Spencer Graves]

	  Might it be appropriate to raise that question on the Talk page 
associated with the Wikipedia article on "Indian red (color)":



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)


  Many Wikimedian are generally sympathetic to discussions of
political correctness and similar topics.  If the name of that article 
were changed, then it should be a lot easier to pursue a similar name 
change elsewhere.



  Spencer Graves


On 2020-11-17 15:25, Mitchell Maltenfort wrote:

What about just amputating the final "n?"

"Indian" might mean one of two things, but "India" is pretty distinct.



On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 4:10 PM T. A. Milne via R-help 
wrote:



Apologies to the list for continuing a thread which is clearly off-topic.
However, contacting the maintainer of an R package to complain about this
specific color name seems ill-considered.

1)  The name "indian red" is a part of widely-used color schemes
everywhere, not just in R.  It's the color defined as:

"The color indianred / Indian red with hexadecimal color code #cd5c5c is a
shade of red. In the RGB color model #cd5c5c is comprised of 80.39% red,
36.08% green and 36.08% blue. In the HSL color space #cd5c5c has a hue of
0° (degrees), 53% saturation and 58% lightness. This color has an
approximate wavelength of 611.37 nm."

https://encycolorpedia.com/cd5c5c


2)  The "indian" in the color name refers to ferric oxide, historically
sourced from India.  Per Wikipedia:

"The name Indian red derives from the red laterite soil found in India,
which is composed of naturally occurring iron oxides.[citation needed] The
first recorded use of Indian red as a color term in English was in 1672.[3"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)


Given the name refers to the locus of the ferric oxide source, It isn't
obvious that any particular group should be offended by the name.


--  T. Arthur Milne



On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner 

wrote:


On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
Jim Lemon  wrote:



Hi Elaine,
There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.


Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".

cheers,

Rolf


You know, I wouldn’t have continued this thread (which has now wandered
off topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel
now like it’s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering
moderating me after letting these posts by):

That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly
by white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a
variety of reasons, and this “pretending no one else on earth exists” kind
of stuff is at least some part of the reason. The question at issue here
aside, white men complaining about people finding racism or sexism
everywhere they look doesn’t pass the sniff test. Most or all of these
things that people are reporting as offensive are being reported by people
you’re clearly not listening to.

Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize,
regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it’s the right
thing to do. If someone tells you “that thing you’re saying is offensive or
is hurting me” and you say “I didn’t mean it,” and then keep right on doing
it, what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone
that is being “blamed,” as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do
better next time.

--
#BlackLivesMatter

|| \\UTGERS, |---*O*---
||_// the State  | Ryan Novosielski - novos...@rutgers.edu
|| \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus
||  \\of NJ  | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark
  `'

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[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

__

Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Mitchell Maltenfort]

What about just amputating the final "n?"

"Indian" might mean one of two things, but "India" is pretty distinct.



On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 4:10 PM T. A. Milne via R-help 
wrote:

>
> Apologies to the list for continuing a thread which is clearly off-topic.
> However, contacting the maintainer of an R package to complain about this
> specific color name seems ill-considered.
>
> 1)  The name "indian red" is a part of widely-used color schemes
> everywhere, not just in R.  It's the color defined as:
>
> "The color indianred / Indian red with hexadecimal color code #cd5c5c is a
> shade of red. In the RGB color model #cd5c5c is comprised of 80.39% red,
> 36.08% green and 36.08% blue. In the HSL color space #cd5c5c has a hue of
> 0° (degrees), 53% saturation and 58% lightness. This color has an
> approximate wavelength of 611.37 nm."
>
> https://encycolorpedia.com/cd5c5c
>
>
> 2)  The "indian" in the color name refers to ferric oxide, historically
> sourced from India.  Per Wikipedia:
>
> "The name Indian red derives from the red laterite soil found in India,
> which is composed of naturally occurring iron oxides.[citation needed] The
> first recorded use of Indian red as a color term in English was in 1672.[3"
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)
>
>
> Given the name refers to the locus of the ferric oxide source, It isn't
> obvious that any particular group should be offended by the name.
>
>
> --  T. Arthur Milne
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
> > Jim Lemon  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hi Elaine,
> >> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
> >> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
> >> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
> >> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
> >> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
> >> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
> >> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.
> >>
> > Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
> > that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
> > alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Rolf
> >
> You know, I wouldn’t have continued this thread (which has now wandered
> off topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel
> now like it’s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering
> moderating me after letting these posts by):
>
> That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly
> by white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a
> variety of reasons, and this “pretending no one else on earth exists” kind
> of stuff is at least some part of the reason. The question at issue here
> aside, white men complaining about people finding racism or sexism
> everywhere they look doesn’t pass the sniff test. Most or all of these
> things that people are reporting as offensive are being reported by people
> you’re clearly not listening to.
>
> Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize,
> regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it’s the right
> thing to do. If someone tells you “that thing you’re saying is offensive or
> is hurting me” and you say “I didn’t mean it,” and then keep right on doing
> it, what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone
> that is being “blamed,” as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do
> better next time.
>
> --
> #BlackLivesMatter
> 
> || \\UTGERS, |---*O*---
> ||_// the State  | Ryan Novosielski - novos...@rutgers.edu
> || \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus
> ||  \\of NJ  | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark
>  `'
>
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[T. A. Milne via R-help]

Apologies to the list for continuing a thread which is clearly off-topic.  
However, contacting the maintainer of an R package to complain about this 
specific color name seems ill-considered.

1)  The name "indian red" is a part of widely-used color schemes everywhere, 
not just in R.  It's the color defined as:

"The color indianred / Indian red with hexadecimal color code #cd5c5c is a 
shade of red. In the RGB color model #cd5c5c is comprised of 80.39% red, 36.08% 
green and 36.08% blue. In the HSL color space #cd5c5c has a hue of 0° 
(degrees), 53% saturation and 58% lightness. This color has an approximate 
wavelength of 611.37 nm."

https://encycolorpedia.com/cd5c5c


2)  The "indian" in the color name refers to ferric oxide, historically sourced 
from India.  Per Wikipedia:

"The name Indian red derives from the red laterite soil found in India, which 
is composed of naturally occurring iron oxides.[citation needed] The first 
recorded use of Indian red as a color term in English was in 1672.[3"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)


Given the name refers to the locus of the ferric oxide source, It isn't obvious 
that any particular group should be offended by the name.


--  T. Arthur Milne


> On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
> Jim Lemon  wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Elaine,
>> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
>> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
>> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
>> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
>> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
>> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
>> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.
>>
> Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
> that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
> alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".
>
> cheers,
>
> Rolf
>
You know, I wouldn’t have continued this thread (which has now wandered off 
topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel now like 
it’s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering moderating me 
after letting these posts by):

That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly by 
white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a variety of 
reasons, and this “pretending no one else on earth exists” kind of stuff is at 
least some part of the reason. The question at issue here aside, white men 
complaining about people finding racism or sexism everywhere they look doesn’t 
pass the sniff test. Most or all of these things that people are reporting as 
offensive are being reported by people you’re clearly not listening to.

Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize, 
regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it’s the right thing 
to do. If someone tells you “that thing you’re saying is offensive or is 
hurting me” and you say “I didn’t mean it,” and then keep right on doing it, 
what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone that is 
being “blamed,” as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do better next 
time.

--
#BlackLivesMatter

|| \\UTGERS, |---*O*---
||_// the State  | Ryan Novosielski - novos...@rutgers.edu
|| \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus
||  \\    of NJ  | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark
 `'

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Derek Ogle]

I agree with, support, and appreciate this message. Thank you Ryan for the 
courage to write this, and Lainey for your courage to persist with your 
question.

-Original Message-
From: R-help  On Behalf Of Ryan Novosielski
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 9:40 AM
To: r-help mailing list 
Cc: Lainey Gallenberg 
Subject: Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

*** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] https://www.northland.edu/about/external-email;>What does this mean? 
***

> On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
> Jim Lemon  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Elaine,
>> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I 
>> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or 
>> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon 
>> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the 
>> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the 
>> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, 
>> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.
> 
> Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said that! 
> Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric, 
> alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Rolf

You know, I wouldn’t have continued this thread (which has now wandered off 
topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel now like 
it’s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering moderating me 
after letting these posts by):

That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly by 
white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a variety of 
reasons, and this “pretending no one else on earth exists” kind of stuff is at 
least some part of the reason. The question at issue here aside, white men 
complaining about people finding racism or sexism everywhere they look doesn’t 
pass the sniff test. Most or all of these things that people are reporting as 
offensive are being reported by people you’re clearly not listening to.

Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize, 
regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it’s the right thing 
to do. If someone tells you “that thing you’re saying is offensive or is 
hurting me” and you say “I didn’t mean it,” and then keep right on doing it, 
what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone that is 
being “blamed,” as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do better next 
time. 

--
#BlackLivesMatter

|| \\UTGERS, |---*O*---
||_// the State  | Ryan Novosielski - novos...@rutgers.edu
|| \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus
||  \\of NJ  | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark
 `'

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Chris Evans]

... and we are off topic and I'm not sure I would vote for changing the name of 
the colour but at the same time I have to endorse that as a brilliant, 
brilliant summary of the issues which ought to be a fortune candidate.  

I have cc'd in the noble Achim, maintainer of the cookies package as I seem to 
remember that's the correct way to make a formal nomination.

Very best all, 

Chris

- Original Message -
> From: "Ryan Novosielski" 
> To: "r-help mailing list" 
> Cc: "Lainey Gallenberg" 
> Sent: Tuesday, 17 November, 2020 16:39:38
> Subject: Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner  wrote:
>> 
>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
>> Jim Lemon  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Elaine,
>>> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
>>> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
>>> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
>>> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
>>> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
>>> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
>>> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.
>> 
>> Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
>> that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
>> alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".
>> 
>> cheers,
>> 
>> Rolf
> 
> You know, I wouldn’t have continued this thread (which has now wandered off
> topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel now like
> it’s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering moderating me
> after letting these posts by):
> 
> That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly by
> white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a variety 
> of
> reasons, and this “pretending no one else on earth exists” kind of stuff is at
> least some part of the reason. The question at issue here aside, white men
> complaining about people finding racism or sexism everywhere they look doesn’t
> pass the sniff test. Most or all of these things that people are reporting as
> offensive are being reported by people you’re clearly not listening to.
> 
> Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize, 
> regardless
> of whether or not it was intentional, because it’s the right thing to do. If
> someone tells you “that thing you’re saying is offensive or is hurting me” and
> you say “I didn’t mean it,” and then keep right on doing it, what does it say
> to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone that is being “blamed,” 
> as
> you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do better next time.
> 
> --
> #BlackLivesMatter
> 
>|| \\UTGERS,|---*O*---
>||_// the State | Ryan Novosielski - novos...@rutgers.edu
>|| \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus
>||  \\of NJ | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, 
>Newark
> `'
> 
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

-- 
Small contribution in our coronavirus rigours: 
https://www.coresystemtrust.org.uk/home/free-options-to-replace-paper-core-forms-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

Chris Evans  Visiting Professor, University of Sheffield 

I do some consultation work for the University of Roehampton 
 and other places
but  remains my main Email address.  I have a work web site 
at:
   https://www.psyctc.org/psyctc/
and a site I manage for CORE and CORE system trust at:
   http://www.coresystemtrust.org.uk/
I have "semigrated" to France, see: 
   https://www.psyctc.org/pelerinage2016/semigrating-to-france/ 
   
https://www.psyctc.org/pelerinage2016/register-to-get-updates-from-pelerinage2016/

If you want an Emeeting, I am trying to keep them to Thursdays and my diary is 
at:
   https://www.psyctc.org/pelerinage2016/ceworkdiary/
Beware: French time, generally an hour ahead of UK.

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Ryan Novosielski]

> On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
> Jim Lemon  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Elaine,
>> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
>> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
>> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
>> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
>> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
>> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
>> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.
> 
> Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
> that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
> alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Rolf

You know, I wouldn’t have continued this thread (which has now wandered off 
topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel now like 
it’s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering moderating me 
after letting these posts by):

That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly by 
white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a variety of 
reasons, and this “pretending no one else on earth exists” kind of stuff is at 
least some part of the reason. The question at issue here aside, white men 
complaining about people finding racism or sexism everywhere they look doesn’t 
pass the sniff test. Most or all of these things that people are reporting as 
offensive are being reported by people you’re clearly not listening to.

Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize, 
regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it’s the right thing 
to do. If someone tells you “that thing you’re saying is offensive or is 
hurting me” and you say “I didn’t mean it,” and then keep right on doing it, 
what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone that is 
being “blamed,” as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do better next 
time. 

--
#BlackLivesMatter

|| \\UTGERS, |---*O*---
||_// the State  | Ryan Novosielski - novos...@rutgers.edu
|| \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus
||  \\of NJ  | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark
 `'

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and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[T. A. Milne via R-help]

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100Jim Lemon  
 wrote:

> Hi Elaine,There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. 
> Idon't think that it does anything against racism, sexism 
> orantidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexiconto 
> comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of theuser. It is the 
> intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing thewords wastes your time, 
> blames those who use the words harmlessly,and gives the real offender time to 
> find another epithet.
>
Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have saidthat! Your 
posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,alongside Dr. 
Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".cheers,Rolf
-- Honorary Research FellowDepartment of StatisticsUniversity of AucklandPhone: 
+64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276

To Rolf's excellent example, I would add Mandy Rice-Davies' immortal words from 
the witness box.



- T. Arthur Milne


[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Mitchell Maltenfort]

Thanks, Rolf, I never saw the Letter to Chesterfield myself.

Though I admit I run more to Swift's "A Modest Proposal" but then if you
really want to get into being impolitic that's a stellar example!

Mitch

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:46 PM Rolf Turner  wrote:

>
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
> Jim Lemon  wrote:
>
> > Hi Elaine,
> > There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
> > don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
> > antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
> > to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
> > user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
> > words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
> > and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.
>
> Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
> that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
> alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".
>
> cheers,
>
> Rolf
>
> --
> Honorary Research Fellow
> Department of Statistics
> University of Auckland
> Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276
>
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Stephen Ellison]

>  Whether or not you agree with my reason for doing so, my question was
> how to contact the creator of the "colors" function. If you do not have advice
> on this, please refrain from weighing in.

... which is precisely what Prof Gunter said.

However, it is worth consulting the documentation when you are seeking an 
author or maintainer. In this instance, you will find that 'colours' (and yes, 
'color' grates) is part of the grDevices package, and the package maintainers 
and the relevant email is on the ?grDevices manual page.





***
This email and any attachments are confidential. Any use...{{dropped:8}}

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Rolf Turner]

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100
Jim Lemon  wrote:

> Hi Elaine,
> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon
> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the
> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the
> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly,
> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet.

Jim:  This is superbly expressed.  I wish that I could have said
that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric,
alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield".

cheers,

Rolf

-- 
Honorary Research Fellow
Department of Statistics
University of Auckland
Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Martin Morgan]

Lainey wishes to report a bug, so should see ?bug.report. Mail sent to R-core 
will be held for moderator approval, and relevant input or ultimate resolution 
would not be visible to the wider community; it is not a good place to report 
bugs.

Martin Morgan

On 11/16/20, 4:48 PM, "R-help on behalf of Mitchell Maltenfort" 
 wrote:

r-c...@r-project.org. would be the first stop.



On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 4:37 PM Lainey Gallenberg <
laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Whether or not you agree with my reason for doing so, my question was how
> to contact the creator of the "colors" function. If you do not have advice
> on this, please refrain from weighing in.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:03 PM Bert Gunter 
> wrote:
>
> > WIth all due respect, can we end this thread NOW. This is not a forum to
> > discuss social or political viewpoints. I consider it a disservice to
> make
> > it one.
> >
> > Bert Gunter
> >
> > "The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along
> and
> > sticking things into it."
> > -- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:54 PM Jim Lemon  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Elaine,
> >> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
> >> don't
> >> think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
> >> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon 
to
> >> comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the user. It
> is
> >> the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the words wastes
> your
> >> time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, and gives the real
> >> offender time to find another epithet.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 5:39 AM Lainey Gallenberg <
> >> laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me
> to
> >> > lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
> >> > shocked to see there are four named color options that include the
> term
> >> > "indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
> >> > offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to 
contact
> >> > about making this happen?
> >> >
> >> > Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
> >> >
> >> > Sincerely,
> >> > Elaine Gallenberg
> >> >
> >> > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >> >
> >> > __
> >> > R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> >> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> >> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >> >
> >>
> >> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >>
> >> __
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> >
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Mitchell Maltenfort]

r-c...@r-project.org. would be the first stop.



On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 4:37 PM Lainey Gallenberg <
laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Whether or not you agree with my reason for doing so, my question was how
> to contact the creator of the "colors" function. If you do not have advice
> on this, please refrain from weighing in.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:03 PM Bert Gunter 
> wrote:
>
> > WIth all due respect, can we end this thread NOW. This is not a forum to
> > discuss social or political viewpoints. I consider it a disservice to
> make
> > it one.
> >
> > Bert Gunter
> >
> > "The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along
> and
> > sticking things into it."
> > -- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:54 PM Jim Lemon  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Elaine,
> >> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
> >> don't
> >> think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
> >> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon to
> >> comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the user. It
> is
> >> the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the words wastes
> your
> >> time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, and gives the real
> >> offender time to find another epithet.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 5:39 AM Lainey Gallenberg <
> >> laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me
> to
> >> > lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
> >> > shocked to see there are four named color options that include the
> term
> >> > "indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
> >> > offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to contact
> >> > about making this happen?
> >> >
> >> > Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
> >> >
> >> > Sincerely,
> >> > Elaine Gallenberg
> >> >
> >> > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >> >
> >> > __
> >> > R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> >> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> >> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >> >
> >>
> >> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >>
> >> __
> >> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> >> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >>
> >
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Lainey Gallenberg]

 Whether or not you agree with my reason for doing so, my question was how
to contact the creator of the "colors" function. If you do not have advice
on this, please refrain from weighing in.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:03 PM Bert Gunter  wrote:

> WIth all due respect, can we end this thread NOW. This is not a forum to
> discuss social or political viewpoints. I consider it a disservice to make
> it one.
>
> Bert Gunter
>
> "The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along and
> sticking things into it."
> -- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:54 PM Jim Lemon  wrote:
>
>> Hi Elaine,
>> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I
>> don't
>> think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
>> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon to
>> comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the user. It is
>> the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the words wastes your
>> time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, and gives the real
>> offender time to find another epithet.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 5:39 AM Lainey Gallenberg <
>> laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me to
>> > lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
>> > shocked to see there are four named color options that include the term
>> > "indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
>> > offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to contact
>> > about making this happen?
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Elaine Gallenberg
>> >
>> > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>> >
>> > __
>> > R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
>> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
>> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>> >
>>
>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>>
>> __
>> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Bert Gunter]

WIth all due respect, can we end this thread NOW. This is not a forum to
discuss social or political viewpoints. I consider it a disservice to make
it one.

Bert Gunter

"The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along and
sticking things into it."
-- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )


On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:54 PM Jim Lemon  wrote:

> Hi Elaine,
> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I don't
> think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon to
> comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the user. It is
> the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the words wastes your
> time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, and gives the real
> offender time to find another epithet.
>
> Jim
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 5:39 AM Lainey Gallenberg <
> laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me to
> > lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
> > shocked to see there are four named color options that include the term
> > "indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
> > offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to contact
> > about making this happen?
> >
> > Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Elaine Gallenberg
> >
> > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >
> > __
> > R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Jim Lemon]

Hi Elaine,
There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I don't
think that it does anything against racism, sexism or
antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon to
comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the user. It is
the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the words wastes your
time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, and gives the real
offender time to find another epithet.

Jim

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 5:39 AM Lainey Gallenberg <
laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me to
> lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
> shocked to see there are four named color options that include the term
> "indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
> offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to contact
> about making this happen?
>
> Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
>
> Sincerely,
> Elaine Gallenberg
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Lainey Gallenberg]

Hello,

Thanks for the information. I am glad to learn the etymology of the word is
not related to the offensive terms used in the US and Canada. Personally, I
would prefer if R took Crayola's route and changed the name to avoid this
mistake in the future, but perhaps this sentiment is not shared by others.

Best,
Elaine

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:46 AM Mitchell Maltenfort 
wrote:

> According to Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)
> -- "Indian red" refers to a pigment from India.
>
> The Wikipedia page reports that Crayola were concerned about the mistaken
> etymology so used the name "Chestnut"
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:39 PM Lainey Gallenberg <
> laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me to
>> lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
>> shocked to see there are four named color options that include the term
>> "indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
>> offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to contact
>> about making this happen?
>>
>> Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Elaine Gallenberg
>>
>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>>
>> __
>> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Kevin Thorpe]

This is a standard colour palette name that has been in use for years. R did 
not invent it. It simply uses the standard names. Look up indianred on google. 
You will find Wikipedia entries, hex codes for the colour, etc.

This has nothing to do with R, in my opinion.

-- 
Kevin E. Thorpe
Head of Biostatistics,  Applied Health Research Centre (AHRC)
Li Ka Shing Knowledge Institute of St. Michael's
Assistant Professor, Dalla Lana School of Public Health
University of Toronto
email: kevin.tho...@utoronto.ca  Tel: 416.864.5776  Fax: 416.864.3016
 

On 2020-11-16, 1:39 PM, "R-help on behalf of Lainey Gallenberg" 
 wrote:

EXTERNAL EMAIL:  Treat content with extra caution.

Hello,

I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me to
lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
shocked to see there are four named color options that include the term
"indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to contact
about making this happen?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Sincerely,
Elaine Gallenberg

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Rainer M Krug]

Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color) 
 for where the name comes 
from. To cite:

"The name Indian red derives from the red laterite 
 soil found in India 
, which is composed of naturally occurring 
iron oxides .[citation needed 
] The first recorded 
use of Indian red as a color term in English 
 was in 1672.[3] 
”

So I do not see any offence in the name.

Cheers,

Rainer



> On 16 Nov 2020, at 03:35, Lainey Gallenberg  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me to
> lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
> shocked to see there are four named color options that include the term
> "indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
> offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to contact
> about making this happen?
> 
> Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Elaine Gallenberg
> 
>   [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> 
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

--
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, 
UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Orcid ID: -0002-7490-0066

Department of Evolutionary Biology and Environmental Studies
University of Zürich
Office Y34-J-74
Winterthurerstrasse 190
8075 Zürich
Switzerland

Office: +41 (0)44 635 47 64
Cell:   +41 (0)78 630 66 57
email:  rainer.k...@uzh.ch
rai...@krugs.de
Skype: RMkrug

PGP: 0x0F52F982




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Re: [R] Inappropriate color name

[Mitchell Maltenfort]

According to Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color)
-- "Indian red" refers to a pigment from India.

The Wikipedia page reports that Crayola were concerned about the mistaken
etymology so used the name "Chestnut"

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:39 PM Lainey Gallenberg <
laineygallenb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping someone on here knows the appropriate place/contact for me to
> lodge a complaint about a color name in the "colors" function. I was
> shocked to see there are four named color options that include the term
> "indianred." Surely these colors can be changed to something less
> offensive- my suggestion is "blush." How can I find out who to contact
> about making this happen?
>
> Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
>
> Sincerely,
> Elaine Gallenberg
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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