Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 06:19:41PM -0500, Robby Findler wrote: > Yes, I can see that. That said, I think that good GUI design is > probably best conducted not in brainstorming sessions on a mailing > list, however. No, but collecting ideas that might be useful in UI design can be done here. > > At the risk of repeating myself, I think it makes sense to see if we > can get good information first and then decide where to put it second. > I still think there are lots of places where it could do and be > unobtrusive, but it will be easier to find a good one if we know what > kind of information we have. > > Robby > > > On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:44 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users > wrote: > > > >> On Oct 29, 2017, at 15:35, Robby Findler > >> wrote: > >> > >> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:31 PM, John Clements > >> wrote: > >>> > On Oct 29, 2017, at 15:27, Robby Findler > wrote: > > I think it is a bad idea to dump output into the interactions that > isn't being printed by the program. > >>> > >>> We currently print “Welcome to DrRacket” at the start of each > >>> interaction, so it’s not as if *all* of the output is generated by the > >>> program. > >> > >> True. A little status bar that showed up there wouldn't be > >> objectionable if it were clearly not output, for example. That seems > >> against the ease (which seem to be the spirit of the suggestion), tho. > >> > >>> How about a “turn-down” arrow printed right before or after this message > >>> that when opened will display this input? This turn-down arrow could have > >>> state, so that if you opened it last time, it would stay open in future > >>> runs. > >> > >> Well, the logging window is a lot like that, but you have to click a > >> menu item instead of turn-down something a triangle (which seems > >> better to me). > > > > Speaking only for myself, the logging window chews off a giant chunk of my > > user interface; leaving it open makes me feel like I’m editing in a tiny > > little window. Adding output to the top of the interactions window costs me > > nothing, since it scrolls to disappear. Maybe I’m missing something? > > > > John > > > >> > >> Robby > > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Racket Users" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
Yes, I can see that. That said, I think that good GUI design is probably best conducted not in brainstorming sessions on a mailing list, however. At the risk of repeating myself, I think it makes sense to see if we can get good information first and then decide where to put it second. I still think there are lots of places where it could do and be unobtrusive, but it will be easier to find a good one if we know what kind of information we have. Robby On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:44 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users wrote: > >> On Oct 29, 2017, at 15:35, Robby Findler wrote: >> >> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:31 PM, John Clements >> wrote: >>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 15:27, Robby Findler wrote: I think it is a bad idea to dump output into the interactions that isn't being printed by the program. >>> >>> We currently print “Welcome to DrRacket” at the start of each interaction, >>> so it’s not as if *all* of the output is generated by the program. >> >> True. A little status bar that showed up there wouldn't be >> objectionable if it were clearly not output, for example. That seems >> against the ease (which seem to be the spirit of the suggestion), tho. >> >>> How about a “turn-down” arrow printed right before or after this message >>> that when opened will display this input? This turn-down arrow could have >>> state, so that if you opened it last time, it would stay open in future >>> runs. >> >> Well, the logging window is a lot like that, but you have to click a >> menu item instead of turn-down something a triangle (which seems >> better to me). > > Speaking only for myself, the logging window chews off a giant chunk of my > user interface; leaving it open makes me feel like I’m editing in a tiny > little window. Adding output to the top of the interactions window costs me > nothing, since it scrolls to disappear. Maybe I’m missing something? > > John > >> >> Robby > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
How about a progress bar in the status bar (like some Web browsers used to have, and Thunderbird still does), accept that it will be non-monotonic and not an accurate wall-clock-time % for some compilation tasks, and overlay it with some simple metric like "Compiled 8 / 12 files..."? If you can find a way to also visually fit in the filename(s) of the file(s) most immediately being compiled on the cores at that moment (some of the leaves in the tree of not-yet-finished-compiled dependencies), that might also be helpful. More information, like what's being compiled, could be sent as `debug` to the logger, or maybe as `info` for whatever the compiler's logger. A transient popup/dialog window, rather than status bar, might also work, but DrRacket is nicely tile-ly, and a transient frame for this little status indicator might not be the best UI. (An app startup splash screen is different.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 15:35, Robby Findler wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:31 PM, John Clements > wrote: >> >>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 15:27, Robby Findler >>> wrote: >>> >>> I think it is a bad idea to dump output into the interactions that >>> isn't being printed by the program. >> >> We currently print “Welcome to DrRacket” at the start of each interaction, >> so it’s not as if *all* of the output is generated by the program. > > True. A little status bar that showed up there wouldn't be > objectionable if it were clearly not output, for example. That seems > against the ease (which seem to be the spirit of the suggestion), tho. > >> How about a “turn-down” arrow printed right before or after this message >> that when opened will display this input? This turn-down arrow could have >> state, so that if you opened it last time, it would stay open in future runs. > > Well, the logging window is a lot like that, but you have to click a > menu item instead of turn-down something a triangle (which seems > better to me). Speaking only for myself, the logging window chews off a giant chunk of my user interface; leaving it open makes me feel like I’m editing in a tiny little window. Adding output to the top of the interactions window costs me nothing, since it scrolls to disappear. Maybe I’m missing something? John > > Robby -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:31 PM, John Clements wrote: > >> On Oct 29, 2017, at 15:27, Robby Findler wrote: >> >> I think it is a bad idea to dump output into the interactions that >> isn't being printed by the program. > > We currently print “Welcome to DrRacket” at the start of each interaction, so > it’s not as if *all* of the output is generated by the program. True. A little status bar that showed up there wouldn't be objectionable if it were clearly not output, for example. That seems against the ease (which seem to be the spirit of the suggestion), tho. > How about a “turn-down” arrow printed right before or after this message that > when opened will display this input? This turn-down arrow could have state, > so that if you opened it last time, it would stay open in future runs. Well, the logging window is a lot like that, but you have to click a menu item instead of turn-down something a triangle (which seems better to me). Robby -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 15:27, Robby Findler wrote: > > I think it is a bad idea to dump output into the interactions that > isn't being printed by the program. We currently print “Welcome to DrRacket” at the start of each interaction, so it’s not as if *all* of the output is generated by the program. How about a “turn-down” arrow printed right before or after this message that when opened will display this input? This turn-down arrow could have state, so that if you opened it last time, it would stay open in future runs. John > > There is a logging window, perhaps that can be used? > > Robby > > > On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:25 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users > wrote: >> This is a great idea: I feel like this change would deliver 80% of what I >> want, and be easy to implement. It would give a concrete and recognizable >> visual “path” of the compilation. I would not be inclined to delete it when >> finished. Could it ever be long? Would it make other people unhappy to see >> this output (presumably not in teaching languages?)? >> >> John >> >>> On Oct 28, 2017, at 13:42, Ben Greenman wrote: >>> >>> I like the output `raco make -v ` gives on the command-line. >>> >>> How about piping that into the interactions window? >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Racket Users" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
I think it is a bad idea to dump output into the interactions that isn't being printed by the program. There is a logging window, perhaps that can be used? Robby On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:25 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users wrote: > This is a great idea: I feel like this change would deliver 80% of what I > want, and be easy to implement. It would give a concrete and recognizable > visual “path” of the compilation. I would not be inclined to delete it when > finished. Could it ever be long? Would it make other people unhappy to see > this output (presumably not in teaching languages?)? > > John > >> On Oct 28, 2017, at 13:42, Ben Greenman wrote: >> >> I like the output `raco make -v ` gives on the command-line. >> >> How about piping that into the interactions window? > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
This is a great idea: I feel like this change would deliver 80% of what I want, and be easy to implement. It would give a concrete and recognizable visual “path” of the compilation. I would not be inclined to delete it when finished. Could it ever be long? Would it make other people unhappy to see this output (presumably not in teaching languages?)? John > On Oct 28, 2017, at 13:42, Ben Greenman wrote: > > I like the output `raco make -v ` gives on the command-line. > > How about piping that into the interactions window? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
What about a simple timer and an indicator of compilation time compared to the previous compilation? The reasoning is that for a small project compilation time is short so it doesn’t matter that it will be wildly inaccurate, but for longer projects where compilation time is long, the number of changes you make will be proportionately smaller so you will at least have a rough estimate. I’m guessing that sometimes this will be poor, but for most compilations it will be okay. Kr Stephen On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 at 22:15, Shu-Hung You < shu-hung@eecs.northwestern.edu> wrote: > I think printing which file is currently being loaded can also help, > like the logs given by enter! #:verbose. These logs can also be > printed to the interaction window and be erased after the loading > process is finished. This can let the user know that something is > actually running. > > --Shu-Hung > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Ben Greenman > wrote: > > I like the output `raco make -v ` gives on the command-line. > > > > How about piping that into the interactions window? > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Kind regards, Stephen -- Ealing (London), UK -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
I think printing which file is currently being loaded can also help, like the logs given by enter! #:verbose. These logs can also be printed to the interaction window and be erased after the loading process is finished. This can let the user know that something is actually running. --Shu-Hung On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Ben Greenman wrote: > I like the output `raco make -v ` gives on the command-line. > > How about piping that into the interactions window? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
I like the output `raco make -v ` gives on the command-line. How about piping that into the interactions window? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
I would not want to see a popup window, but there are lots of other, more subtle ways to indicate progress that would totally work here. Lets see if we can find a measure of progress that makes sense first. One idea: the drracket startup progress bar counts the number of files that are passed to one of the eval/compile handlers as a measure of progress and it tracks if the total number changes over time. Maybe that would work? Related to this is the very recent discussion about errortrace in a DrRacket issue, as compiling a file (via errortrace) is a completely different than loading a zo file off of the disk. Robby On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 3:13 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users wrote: > Okay, this is just what the world needs…another DrRacket GUI suggestion. If > it makes sense, though, I’d love to help implement it. > > If there’s anything that the last 30 years of UI (oh… sorry… UX) design has > taught us, it’s that people hate to wait, and they REALLY hate to wait when > they have no sense of progress. > > Currently, hitting the DrRacket “run” button can result in substantial > compilation delay, especially when using Typed Racket. > > There are various things that can actually make compilation better. > > Alongside this, though, one thing that might make people happier would be to > provide a short-lived pop-up progress window that tries to indicate the > progress toward full compilation. > > The obvious problem here is that it’s impossible, in general, to predict how > many files will have to be compiled, and in fact “compilation” is a very > flexible term in the Racket world. In many cases, opening one file will > reveal many more that need to be compiled. In fact, it’s essentially a tree > exploration; I’m not sure there’s a good visualization for this, but it would > be interesting to try. > > Does this sound like an interesting or useful idea? > > John > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[racket-users] DrR compilation progress bar
Okay, this is just what the world needs…another DrRacket GUI suggestion. If it makes sense, though, I’d love to help implement it. If there’s anything that the last 30 years of UI (oh… sorry… UX) design has taught us, it’s that people hate to wait, and they REALLY hate to wait when they have no sense of progress. Currently, hitting the DrRacket “run” button can result in substantial compilation delay, especially when using Typed Racket. There are various things that can actually make compilation better. Alongside this, though, one thing that might make people happier would be to provide a short-lived pop-up progress window that tries to indicate the progress toward full compilation. The obvious problem here is that it’s impossible, in general, to predict how many files will have to be compiled, and in fact “compilation” is a very flexible term in the Racket world. In many cases, opening one file will reveal many more that need to be compiled. In fact, it’s essentially a tree exploration; I’m not sure there’s a good visualization for this, but it would be interesting to try. Does this sound like an interesting or useful idea? John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
