[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

To the Republican members of this group, As a sixty two year old man, who still suffers from the effects of child abuse, child neglect and abandonment, I say without any reservation, and with great passion, that taking children away from their parents is one hundred percent wrong. The children

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Ha Ha .. IS is Indivisible . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Thanks Justin! If not for your post, I would have missed Grant's blahg. This thread helped me learn a bunch of things about the issue. As a society we go no where by making noise only inside our echo chambers. Discussions that occur in diverse groups like this are very useful. On Tuesday,

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Who here is absolutely free of sin as to cast the first stone, against ANYONE, for ANY reason-excuse ? Oh ... an "eye for a eye" so says in a book a book ! ? "Evil must be destroyed " ? That's the absolute authority claimed evil itself is authority ? Did it ever occur to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Nice. I think the thread actually got BETTER at the end. Unusual. The dialogue is informative, and the editorializing is overt. Philip Also not affronted, in Santa Rosa, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Just a few quick responses: 1). Do you have cites for the second sentence? It does not appear to be true: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-safe-country-20180518-story.html The article gives a lot of pretty good reasons people might want to avoid seeking asylum in

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

"Absent that, and based on #'s 1 and 2 above, I think that all should be deported." Elle Oh Elle, bro -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Max, Thanks for first-hand acknowledgement that mine was not a "wall of BS text." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Larry, thanks for the explanation of the legal constraints. The legal process for seeking asylum you described matches the one my family followed (albeit different countries) some decades ago and one I’m familiar with. (There was an NPR segment today that featured an interview with the lawyer

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

*I started this saying that being logical begets abuse. I expect it now. But I try to approach all contentious subjects from a legal and logical perspective and not let emotions get in the way of a decision. This is also why my first marriage ended. LOL* Thanks for trying to set out the

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Justin - I'm the admin of both groups. I left the thread unmolested here because historically, the quality of interaction within this group remains high. Even though I try to retain high quality within both venues, there's a difference. Although this thread has veered and swerved, it did

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

ustin - I'm the admin of both groups. I left the thread unmolested here because historically, the quality of interaction within this group remains high. Even though I try to retain high quality within both venues, there's a difference. Although this thread has veered and swerved, it did

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

By all means, end wall of text BS with LOL. People love that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

This is a difficult subject because too many people approach the subject emotionally and attempts to be logical/unemotional get one labeled, targeted, and rejected. The reality is that there are multiple mitigating facts: 1. Mexico is a signatory to multiple international asylum and refugee

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Fair is fair — separating infants from families is different than unaccompanied minors. I was pointing out that this is part of an issue whose scale is perhaps larger than many think of, and the plan for handling which may be lacking. BTW, you can donate to organizations that help refugees...

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Jim, I knew you were mods of both groups, so I figured there must've been a good reason the FB was deleted. Thanks again for doing an excellent job moderating. Phil Arlington, VA On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 12:09:31 PM UTC-4, Jim Edgar wrote: > > Justin - > > I'm the admin of both groups.

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I should clarify it comes up again elsewhere in that issue. The first paragraph isn't all Grant said. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I remember getting that RR. I never told Grant this (I don't think) but that really helped me to "unstick" after 9/11. My reaction to that atrocity was to just kind of STOP..my brain kept looping as if that day was The Last Day, and I couldn't move on into living with it as an "in the past"

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Not entering the fray or offering an opinion, just fixing the picture:

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

It should also be noted that in the previous Blahg Grant mentioned he doesn't look at the replies, Dave does. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

As Joe pointed out, the reason for Grants comments (& thus this thread), was children being separated from their parents, NOT unaccompanied minors. It's sort of a tactic and semantics really to refer to these people as criminals when the crime for most of them is entering this country illegally.

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Justin - I'm the admin of both groups. I left the thread unmolested here because historically, the quality of interaction within this group remains high. Even though I try to retain high quality within both venues, there's a difference. Although this thread has veered and swerved, it did

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I was at Rivendell purchasing a bike on the 19th (the date this blahg was posted) and had a conversation with the guys about how I felt guilty spending big $$$ on a bike when I should be donating it to the ACLU or some other organization helping out these families. I imagine that hearing

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Sadly the admin of the Facebook group deleted a similar thread. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Hats off to Grant for taking a position and speaking out. The 'issue that shalt not be named' is truly horrifying, and the problem is not fixed. It's gut-check time for America right now, and opportunities to find common ground should be a priority. Y'all need to talk to each other more, not

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Or just self moderate. Regards, Richard Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2018, at 2:26 PM, Virgil Staphbeard wrote: > > But is it supple? > >> On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 7:57:02 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote: >> Morality planes. > > -- > You received this message because you are

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

But is it supple? On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 7:57:02 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote: > > Morality planes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

The quality of this thread has deteriorated to the point where I urge the moderator to step in. Sheesh. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

As the husband of a product of refugees with a daughter who wouldn’t exist without a humane refugee policy I agree. Squirm. You should be uncomfortable. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Personally I hope everyone who is pro "ripping babies from refugee mothers" is very uncomfortable here and in their daily lives. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Great point and fantastic analogy, Philip. John Who also thanks Grant for taking the risks that he takes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

For what it is worth the issue isn’t done. Interesting bit of background from one of my colleagues. As I mentioned below, a briefing from the DOJ’s Gene Hamilton this afternoon makes clear what we discussed: the Executive Order is illegal on its face. The White House knows this. You can’t

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Thanks for speaking out Grant. It means a lot. Brynnar Indy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

The thing Grant wrote about has been rescinded and we're still here debating if it was ok to discuss here. Seems a bit silly at this point. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I just read all the posts in this thread and it seems there is more arguing whether this thread is or isn't about politics, than there is actual political discussion. Riv content: I own three Rivendells. On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:16 PM Drw wrote: > I really don’t understand how this is

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Whether or not a person agrees it was appropriate to post this topic on this forum, the sharp division this discussion has caused (even to the point of certain members being singled/called out/attacked/given attitude, for voicing their opinions) is an excellent example of why topics of this

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I really don’t understand how this is considered political. Japanese internment camps are atrocities now. Maybe they were political when they were happening. If your child was taken from you, would that feel political? Or worse, if you were a child and had your parents taken away from you,

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Please don’t extrapolate not wanting this place to turn into a political forum with agreement on what is happening along our borders. I’m a mom. I get it more than you will ever know. Grant made his comments off forum - not here. I think we are in agreement with that -- You received this

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I am a member of a closed FaceBook group for people that have Golden Retriever puppies from a specific breeder. Yes - controversial Golden puppies. I just came from there to read this forum after one of the members demanded that everyone “unfriend” her if they didn’t totally agree with her

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Yay Grant! Yay treating people with dignity and humanity! It’s nice to hear all (most) of you here are on the side of kindness and decency. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Taking the high road requires high trail. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

The defense of this decision - how horrific the policy was, and that Grant put it on Rivbike - has been explained several times in this thread. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I feel like I have logged in to the wrong forum. I didn’t think this was a forum to discuss politics. Regardless of whose party you belong to. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

This is thread is perfect. On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 7:57 PM Joe Bernard wrote: > Morality planes. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Morality planes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

What can’t a Rivendell do? -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Grant writes post decying separation of families at the border ... Trump signs executive order ending family separations at the border. Grin. Way to go, Grant! With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Thank you Grant! On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 11:07:07 PM UTC-4, Justin, Oakland wrote: > > Glad to see you voice your opinion on the Blahg/Blug/whatever it was. > > -Justin > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Quite right, your post did not state any feelings about the Grant's post, just whether it should be discussed here. My apologies. Eamon Seattle On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 12:09:04 PM UTC-7, d2mini wrote: > > It started off that way but of course specifics are now being > discussed/argued.

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Agreed! Thank you, Grant! On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-5, Justin, Oakland wrote: > Glad to see you voice your opinion on the Blahg/Blug/whatever it was. > > -Justin > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

*"Isn't this same fear & hatred of Others what is behind car driver road rage against bicyclists?"* I don't think it's only fear and hatred, it's also arrogance and ownership, and expectation of privilege, but I feel the correlation on a personal and systemic level. - Some people feel

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

You got caught in "I have to agree with Matt" which I noticed immediately and thought, "yeah, someone's going to read that out of context." The internet is fun! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

It started off that way but of course specifics are now being discussed/argued. I'm not saying I don't agree with Grant (no idea where you got that, that is your poor assumption), but even Grant used his blog, not this forum. There is a time and a place. But hey, it's not my forum, I'm just a

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Thank you, Grant, for taking a stand on the side of humanity. Every time you do make your views known, I am that much more proud of you and Rivendell. It does take courage, and you set a grand example. I am also gratified by the response of the listers here. If the separation of children

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Dear Grant, Thank you for your Blahg post. Isn't this same fear & hatred of Others what is behind car driver road rage against bicyclists? My wife is a proud Rivendell Betty Foy owner, and a Mexican-American, born here in the U.S. to parents born here in the U.S. to grandparents born here in

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Matt's reply to the OP wasn't something we haven't seen here before - (*Please do not introduce political non “bike” talk on the board)* - I mean, perhaps it could have been more eloquently expressed ... but if I had to guess, it's a sentiment that has been generally agreed with across the

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." A big Amen to that. And a big southern "Bless your hearts" to the defenders of the indefensible. Thank you Grant. Laing Cocoa FL > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Mattt and d2mini, I respectfully suggest that this is simply a thread thanking Grant for a post on his blog. Clearly you disagree with his sentiment, and have expressed so. Why not leave it at that? Eamon Seattle -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

This is a Riv Forum originally started by Grant, our government had embarked on a human rights atrocity, Grant mentioned it, and we're talking about it. Have a nice day. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I have to agree with Matt. This is not the place for discussion of politics. At least I didn't think so. Nothing good ever comes from a political post (evident in this very thread) on a non-political forum, and most non-political forums/discussion groups don't allow it. Anyone who has been

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

The order has been reversed because we were right and Trump saw the writing on the wall. Public pressure works, something terrible got fixed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

The back and forth is why these kind of issues should not be brought up on this group. Nothing Will get resolved. We have differing opinions and everyone is right. There are heated arguments over bikes on this group. This issue will not be resolved on the Rivendell Owners Bunch. I

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Thanks, Grant. Bottom line for me is, due to trade issues, and now this obscenity, I'll source my purchases from other countries. At least for now*. Madness. EricF Vancouver BC * usually less than $1K/year -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Let's not talk about bike infrastructure articles, bike lanes, or helmet laws. Let's also not mention whether we are happy Grant has made-in-Taiwan frames. Let's not praise Grant for trying to get in MUSA products when he can. That would fall under commerce. On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Let's not talk about bike infrastructure articles, bike lanes, or helmet laws. Let's also not mention where we are happy Grant has made-in-Taiwan frames, or other posts where Grant tries to support MUSA items when he can ever again as that is under commerce. On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

That's a whole lotta bullshit, Matt. The issue was children being abducted from parents who at worst had committed a misdemeanor while fleeing violence. A lot of these kids are now sitting in camps with their parents already deported, and the government has no system for reuniting them. The

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

FALSE http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/19/matt-schlapp/no-donald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/ Yes, blatant lies (and the fiesty response) will probably get this thread shut down. On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 11:23 AM, Mattt wrote: > This post will probably get

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

This post will probably get the thread shutdown. The reason I said politics is because the definition of politics is the art or science of Government. This is a matter of government not Rivendell bikes. This issue was not created by the United States, it was created by people who violate

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

+1 on a HUGE thank you to Grant... > > Do not take down this thread. I think this is a wonderful show of support for a topic that transcends political viewpoints and boils down to basic human decency. This forum isn't limited to technical conversations and his Blahg posts should certainly be

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

DHS is hinting at overturning this absurd separation policy, so there's a ray of hope amongst the madness. It will be for some crass "our internal polling looks bad" reason, but I'll take what I can get from these reprobate monsters. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

And I, in turn, hope this board and every aspect of all of our lives is over run with the outrage that is appropriate and which spurs action until this affront to both god and man is ended. This isn’t politics. This is humanity pure and simple. Hugh On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 11:34 AM Christopher

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

I’m super-hoping this thread gets shut down- the sooner the better. This is obviously a political issue. Whatever your beliefs, aren’t there better places to discuss them? Call your representatives, write a letter, scream in the backyard, talk to a friend. Something and someplace other than

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Regardless, evil things are being done and they need to stop. Thanks to all who have used to words to convey this thought. -Jim W > On Jun 20, 2018, at 4:48 AM, Garth wrote: > > Protests are not about "making things right, whole, complete, perfect" , > they're about keeping things divided,

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Yes, Thanks Grant. And thanks, Justin, for opening this thread. And thanks John, Eamon, Joe, and all of the rest. Oh, and Mattt...bless your heart... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Thank you, Grant! Bernie Burton On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:11 AM, John A. Bennett wrote: > To quote John F. Kennedy, who was paraphrasing Edmund Burke: > > As the great parliamentarian Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary > for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." > > The

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

To quote John F. Kennedy, who was paraphrasing Edmund Burke: As the great parliamentarian Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." The full speech, delivered in Canada, back in the Olden Days when we were still friends with them:

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Matt if you find this topic political, I can't imagine how exhausted you must be. On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 11:52:20 PM UTC-4, Mattt wrote: > > Please do not introduce political non “bike” talk on the board. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW

Re: [RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

So, shut up and get in line?  Is that what you're saying? On 06/20/2018 07:48 AM, Garth wrote: Protests are not about "making things right, whole, complete, perfect" , they're about keeping things divided, separated and incomplete. Double-mindedness.  2 sides of the same coin arguing with

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Yeah well I'm going to go ahead and protest evil. That shit doesn't just fade away by itself, you have to fight it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

[RBW] Re: Thanks Grant

Protests are not about "making things right, whole, complete, perfect" , they're about keeping things divided, separated and incomplete. Double-mindedness. 2 sides of the same coin arguing with each other, threatening each other with annihilation though incapable of following through(since