It's not the lugs. I've had lugged bikes that felt sluggish and tigg'd or
fillet brazed bikes that felt lively.
As to thicker-walled and over-sized tubing: that 2003 Riv Road custom
you've all enjoyed hearing so much about never felt as lively as the 1999
RRc. I don't know what the difference in
HI,
I have built many frames, some have 80,000 miles on them.
There are a few reasons tubes are thicker at the ends, which is commonly called
butted tubes, but the process that makes them is called swedged.
The thicker ends allow the frame to have a much longer life and helps reduce or
prevents
Is it possible that a tube can have shorter butted (thickened) sections at
its ends if it is going to be brazed in place vs welded? Is more material
necessary to compensate for the annealing that occurs from the higher
temperatures encountered during welding? Taking advantage of such ability
I own two "old style" Rivendells:
2011 A. Homer Hilsen
2019 Legolas
I recently picked up a used, fillet brazed L' avecaise (Jeff Lyon) built
frame with a light wieght top tube, down tube and its bit lighter overall
than the similarly sized Legolas. The ride is great and it feels easier to
Doing some interwebs reading over a lunchtime sandwich, it seems most people
side with Bill. Lugs are apparently stronger, and possibly prettier, and they
are easier to do a tube replacement with, but tube size, frame geometry, wall
thickness and tube alloy are more where the stiffness enters
I owned one of the first batch of Atlantis frames, and had it seventeen
years. It was a really nice looking bike with some nice parts. But I did
not ride it enough, and when I did it felt a bit dead. I also own a Rosco
Bubbe, and I find that I like the ride much better, seems a bit more
I'm with Bill here. I believe that material and geometry factor much more
into the ride quality of a bike than the joinery(?). Lugs are beautiful and
historic, and I imagine many on the board here appreciate them, but you
would have trouble convincing me that any perceived difference between
Fullylugged said about lugs: " It's not the look, it's the livelier action
you get in a lugged frame, I think"
That's a pretty hot take. I wonder how many others feel the same way? The
vast majority of folks attribute "liveliness" and "deadness" to tubing
specs: tubing that flexes more is
Bill wrote, " It does not have the lugged look if you need that look".
The Salsa and the Crust are welded frames. It's not the look, it's the
livelier action you get in a lugged frame, I think. A Rawland Norvindian
felt dead underneath me, and so did a LHT. My fullylugged Ram and Road
For anybody wanting to emulate the riding behaviors of an original
Atlantis, I'd enthusiastically recommend the Black Mountain Cycles Rim
Brake Monster Cross. It does everything an original Atlantis does. It
takes 700c wheels in all sizes, fits 2" tires plus fenders, has
traditionally short
Thanks, Doug! Yes -- with 1.5" tires, there is *just* room for fenders!
Would be nice to have room for wider tires plus fenders, but 1.5" is good
enough...
That's exactly the way I would set up the Atlantis for me as well (although
probably without the riser -- a Technomic Deluxe height
I have 64cm Mark 1 frame (no 93), it is my favourite bike. I will never
sell it
On Sunday, 1 August 2021 at 05:51:26 UTC+10 dougP wrote:
> Elisabeth:
>
> My wife has 47cm Atlantis & with 1.5" tires it has around 1/2" clearance
> between the top of the tire & the bottom of the fork. It's an
Elisabeth:
My wife has 47cm Atlantis & with 1.5" tires it has around 1/2" clearance
between the top of the tire & the bottom of the fork. It's an early
production one & has the 44cm chainstays. She doesn't have fenders but it
looks like they would fit. She's just under 5'2" tall, rides with
I do wish I had not sold my AR, had fitted it with fatter tires but I just had
no clue then. At least it went to an iBOB list member some years ago.
Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 12:23 PM, iamkeith wrote:
> Interesting question to think about (though I agree it's
Interesting question to think about (though I agree it's unlikely to
happen.)
I have an All Rounder from just prior to when the larger sizes got 700c
wheels and then morphed into the Atlantis as a production model. On one
hand, it remains my favorite and most-used "road" bike but, on the
I think Joe & Joel have some good points, I can't see Grant doing a full
run of bikes based on one of his old designs. Especially the Atlantis,
given that it evolved from the XO-1 (I read Grant said this somewhere, old
interview or Reader) and he has been refining it for almost 30 years.
I
I get the feeling that Grant will not build bikes with his older philosophy
of the shorter chain stays. If you read the information on the new customs
it says longer chainstays…. Maybe he could be convinced on a custom. I
bought the Hillborne to have shorter chainstays.
On Friday, July
Would absolutely be in for that -- with the original geometry, please,
including a size that will actually work (with drop-bar set-up) for someone
between 5'0" and 5'2"! (But, in this round, room in the fork for the 47cm
frame to include a fender!)
-- Liz
On Friday, July 30, 2021 at
One of my touring buds had a LHT for years, but always hankered for an
Atlantis. His wife bought him one as a surprise & of course he loved it.
He said the Atlantis was a better ride & more nimble than the LHT. The
Surly didn't stick around for long after the Atlantis arrived.
RE:
Buy a Crust Romanceur if you want a similar frame.
On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:55:31 PM UTC-5 Lucky wrote:
> I have also owned a LHT and it was nowhere near as nimble/responsive as my
> Atlantis. It wasn’t fun to ride unloaded, got sold.
>
> On Jul 30, 2021, at 16:41, Ian A wrote:
>
> I
Thanks for the info, Lucky. I figured the Atlantis would be more
responsive, especially unloaded.
IanA
On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 5:55:31 PM UTC-6 Lucky wrote:
> I have also owned a LHT and it was nowhere near as nimble/responsive as my
> Atlantis. It wasn’t fun to ride unloaded, got sold.
I have also owned a LHT and it was nowhere near as nimble/responsive as my
Atlantis. It wasn’t fun to ride unloaded, got sold.
> On Jul 30, 2021, at 16:41, Ian A wrote:
>
> I think the original Atlantis in size 56cm/26" wheel is one of my grail
> bikes. Have considered buying a Surly LHT
I think the original Atlantis in size 56cm/26" wheel is one of my grail
bikes. Have considered buying a Surly LHT and having it powdercoated
Atlantis green! I'm guessing the Surly is stouter and obviously not as
aesthetically pleasing and also not built at Toyo, but a good touring bike
I have an older one (2004) and love it to death, though I do experience toe
overlap, and nowadays would probably have bought the next size up.
That said, it’s the only bike I have never considered selling.
I’m currently running 26” Super Yummy tires which seem fat enough, even too fat
maybe.
I had a Mark 1, the Toyo built version with starlight stays,
tire capacity was bit smaller and head angle a bit steeper.
Yes, I'd like to have one again, the old one was stolen.
Scott G.
On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 4:10:43 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
> I could see that, assuming they ever
I could see that, assuming they ever catch up frame production enough to
change a current model. Right now the MIT Atlantis is practically identical
to the Appaloosa; an original design - but from the Taiwan factory - might
be a better position for that model.*
*BUT it's like asking Grant for
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