[RBW] Another stolen Riv in the SfBay area

2013-10-31 Thread Bill Lindsay
why would anyone claim their 2TT Bombadil had 26" wheels? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To p

[RBW] Another stolen Riv in the SfBay area

2013-10-31 Thread Dan McNamara
Not mine, just posting to help. Hopefully. I need to stop the Craigslist searches: My 2008 Rivendell Bombadil bike was stolen on the night of Oct. 30 in the Claremont Hills. A great bummer as it is a wonderful (though very well used) bike that I have greatly enjoyed using over the past 5 years

Re: [RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Tim McNamara
On Oct 31, 2013, at 8:20 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: > > I'm with Garth, I prefer my Revelate seat bag to any of the Carradice > saddlebags. They are lighter, don't sway and are great for compressing your > gear. Also. on rugged terrain, you are often pushing your bike, which can be > a hassle w

[RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Joe Bernard
Are you cross-chaining? You might be catching the chain on the front teeth sideways-like if the bend from the granny to the smaller rear cogs is too severe. I only use the granny in the 3-or-4 biggest/lowest-gear cogs. On Thursday, October 31, 2013 3:35:22 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: > This

[RBW] Re: Highland Day Ride

2013-10-31 Thread hsmitham
20 degrees and dark! I would say I'd love to join in but there's the matter of scents (not saying I stink) and that I think it's cold at 40 degrees, hey that is cold in Southern California :-) Seriously, I totally enjoy the scenery in your part of the world. One of these days I will ride in Col

[RBW] Re: Whimsy in the Catalogue

2013-10-31 Thread hsmitham
While up in June, Grant seemed at least to me having a grand time with Oliver and the photography. I think a lot of enjoyment went into it's creation. ~Hugh On Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:37:57 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote: > > Ligatures; the plastic bastard that cracks on Silver shifters is ac

[RBW] Re: POLL: You like Gray or black housing for your Rivendell? Ferrules?

2013-10-31 Thread Joe Bernard
My first Bridgestone - an XO-3 in 1994 - came with gray, and that's been the way housing is "supposed" to look to me ever since. No particular preference for ferrules. They's shiny and that's good :) Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA. On Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:09:54 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote: > 1.

[RBW] Whimsy in the Catalogue

2013-10-31 Thread Joe Bernard
Ligatures; the plastic bastard that cracks on Silver shifters is actually called Plastic Bastard; Phil is "at the top of the bottom bracket heap". Someone(s) thoroughly enjoyed putting this together :) Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goog

[RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Mojo
My offroad riding buddies all carry packs. I ride with a rack and trunk bag, and strap on panniers for overnights+. Apparently I am hopelessly outdated. So be it. I have that equipment and don't plan to buy another set of bags to fit the latest trends, dagnabit! -- You received this messag

[RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Mike Schiller
I'm with Garth, I prefer my Revelate seat bag to any of the Carradice saddlebags. They are lighter, don't sway and are great for compressing your gear. Also. on rugged terrain, you are often pushing your bike, which can be a hassle with rear panniers in the way. As a lifelong backpacker, I've

Re: [RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
Absolutely, Hugh. Fun away! My ancestors are from the Argyle Peninsula, so just a few wee boat rides and portages away. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:12:53 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote: > > Just funnin with ya Deacon...I'm from a long line from the Hebrides > > > Best, > > >

Re: [RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Hugh Smitham
Just funnin with ya Deacon...I'm from a long line from the Hebrides Best, ~Hugh On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote: > Scots are all about spending money in maintenance to save more money in > breakage. This just started, so hopefully no drive train issues save the > chain

[RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Edwin W
I was having the worst ghost shifts with my 1x8 set up on my Sam. A good chain cleaning (1st in months) solved it. I used the PDW chain cleaning machine, but a stiff brush and cleaning fluid does the same. Edwin "don't like to clean things much" -- You received this message because you are s

[RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Christian
Anne et al, Take a look at these excellent blogs: http://www.whileoutriding.com and http://thelazyrando.wordpress.com. Some of you no doubt know about them already. There's a lot of good info on the pros and cons of bikepacking type set ups. I've learned a lot and gone from being very skeptic

[RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
Scots are all about spending money in maintenance to save more money in breakage. This just started, so hopefully no drive train issues save the chain. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:24:14 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote: > > Deacon, > > Ah yes replace chain...it's not expensive

Re: [RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Hugh Smitham
Bill, He needs to look at the chain ring teeth if they are sharp then he'll need to replace same goes for the cassette, my understanding is that the issue is throwing on a new chain with worn out chain rings and cassette teeth will result in poor shifting and destroy a perfectly good chain. `Hugh

[RBW] Re: Hetre/Synergy safety issue?

2013-10-31 Thread Mike B
Thanks Toshi and thanks Jan. I liked everything else about the Hetres and I'm going to give them another shot at some point. My bike is 58cm but there is a 54cm Polyvalent kickin around that my girlfriend rides. Maybe I will put em on that bike and see how it feels. I will report back if its

[RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Bill Lindsay
Measure it before you replace it, though. If it is horribly stretched, you may be replacing the entire drivetrain. Chain + cogset + chainrings. If the chain is horribly stretched and you only replace the chain, a new chain might be even worse. Measure first to get a sneak preview. On Thur

[RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread hsmitham
Deacon, Ah yes replace chain...it's not expensive, you Scots. Grin I've had chain suck once and it was my fault starting a climb as I waited too long to gear up and feather the front derailleur. I could imagine that though you geared up at an appropriate time that the chain wasn't fully engage

Re: [RBW] POLL: You like Gray or black housing for your Rivendell? Ferrules?

2013-10-31 Thread Peter Morgano
Jagwire titanium with brass ferrules, silver and gold baby! On Oct 31, 2013 7:09 PM, "Michael" wrote: > 1. You like gray or black on your Rivendell? > 2. You like silver, or brass colored ferrules like Riv does? > > Noticed that Riv builds have gray housing with brass ferrules. Was > wondering wh

[RBW] Re: POLL: You like Gray or black housing for your Rivendell? Ferrules?

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
It works so well I don't need to notice it. That's what I prefer. Grin. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:09:54 PM UTC-6, Michael wrote: > > 1. You like gray or black on your Rivendell? > 2. You like silver, or brass colored ferrules like Riv does? > > Noticed that Riv build

[RBW] Re: Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Bill Lindsay
Has it been 18 months on that chain? It would be worth a measurement if it has been. 24 links should be exactly 12 inches. Common rule of thumb is replace the chain every 2000miles On Thursday, October 31, 2013 3:35:22 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: > > This isn’t happening when shifting, it

Re: [RBW] Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
"Bent chain ring tooth?" Isn't that improbable on the granny? With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:54:00 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On 10/31/2013 06:35 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote: > > This isn�t happening when shifting, it�s new and happening when well > establis

[RBW] POLL: You like Gray or black housing for your Rivendell? Ferrules?

2013-10-31 Thread Michael
1. You like gray or black on your Rivendell? 2. You like silver, or brass colored ferrules like Riv does? Noticed that Riv builds have gray housing with brass ferrules. Was wondering why they use that combo. Seems like it stands out less on a bike than black housing does. What a cool idea. Don'

Re: [RBW] Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Steve Palincsar
On 10/31/2013 06:35 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote: This isn’t happening when shifting, it’s new and happening when well established in gear with gear mostly happy (it makes some noise in lowest gear that it doesn’t in higher ones), cranking up a steep hill. Especially happens if I stand to peddle. A

Re: [RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Bill Lindsay
I do have a White VBC crankset. I've only had it a short while and I load balance across several bikes, so it hasn't seen a lot of miles yet. VBC rings are 7075 aluminum also.I'm not terribly worried about the proprietary rings. If I get nervous I'll buy a few spares. On Thursday, Octo

Re: [RBW] Nitto love and more box origami

2013-10-31 Thread Curtis McKenzie
The box thing. When my Albatross bar arrived I felt sure they were on back order. However, they were in the impossibly small box. Enjoy your Riv stuff and stay clean with the soap. Curtis On Thursday, October 31, 2013, Bill Lindsay wrote: > I got a Riv Box yesterday. My order was Steel Albatro

Re: [RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Mike On A Bike
Do you have one of the cranks, Bill? If so, I'd like to know how much mileage you've gotten out of your W.I rings. I read a post on here where Jan Heine said the rings he sells that are made of 7075 aluminum last ~25,000 miles and I was interested to know if White's have a high life expectancy

Re: [RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Garth
FWIW .. I don't consider the Nelson and others like it "common", so my comment was not speaking to those Anne ;) I'm speaking of the common bags you find most widely distributed in bike shops and online retailers and such. To a Riv owner, yes they are ... but outside of this comparatively s

[RBW] Chain Suck under torque in Granny Gear

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
This isn’t happening when shifting, it’s new and happening when well established in gear with gear mostly happy (it makes some noise in lowest gear that it doesn’t in higher ones), cranking up a steep hill. Especially happens if I stand to peddle. All suggestions welcome. Possible fixes would s

Re: [RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Bill Lindsay
Jim Bronson I assume you mean in the White Industries setup? The big ring is the spider When using White Industries crank arms, the big ring attaches to the splined part of the right crank arm and is held in place with a lock ring. The small ring bolts to the big ring. Check out lots of pict

Re: [RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Joe Broach
Hi Anne, Interesting observations. I've been happy with my old Baggins Hoss but not too thrilled with my Carradice Camper (purchased in 2010). The leather straps on the latter are poor quality and started cracking almost immediately. The hardware is cheap with sharp edges. It's currently out of co

[RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Michael
> > I love my carradice pendle bag. I got a great blowout sales price from Peter White Cycles on my first one. I need to get another for my Bleriot. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and sto

Re: [RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
If you're gonna take marketing personally you're in for a wild ride. Grin. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:11:53 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote: > > "The nylon used is heavy duty and top notch,and very very well thought > out, unlike your common saddlebag." > > I don't doub

[RBW] Highland Day Ride

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
Well it was a bundle and batten down your chihuahua type of day. 20˚F for most of my ride, as I started out before sunrise, and quickly climbed to 10,000+ feet. Lots of the ride was through 1-2” of remnant snow. I came to one cleaning and the chihuahua was less dog and more kite — someone hadn’t

Re: [RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Anne Paulson
"The nylon used is heavy duty and top notch,and very very well thought out, unlike your common saddlebag." I don't doubt that the Revelate bags are thought out, but I take exception to the idea that other saddlebags are not well thought out. I have both a Nelson Longflap and the splendid Rivendel

Re: [RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Jim Bronson
Where's the spider in that setup? On Oct 31, 2013 2:04 PM, "Mike On A Bike" wrote: > Thanks for all of the input, but it turns out I've changed my fancy crank > overhaul plans some. I decided to get White ENO arms and set these up as a > double, and I'll be pairing it with a 113 mm SKF BB that I

[RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
"those not wanting to get tangled up with bushes and such along tight trails" I thought that's what momentum is for. Grin. It got me through a number of snug encounters with a satisfying "CRACK SNAP!" That SaddleSack waxed canvas is durable stuff and such loving abuse just adds character to it.

[RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Garth
I bought the slightly smaller "Pika" and am very very happy with it ! Joe b. mentioned many of my reasons too. My biggest reason is no, zero, nada saddlebad "sway" ! I ride in and out of the saddle, and I do not like the "sway" effect at all. These bags are easily compressed with the straps

[RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread hsmitham
That's a good question. Beyond the small opening I can only surmise that this bag suits those not wanting to get tangled up with bushes and such along tight trails hence keeping it all close in with the bike. Just my .02 I for one love my low saddle long flap bag. ~Hugh On Thursday, October 31

Re: [RBW] Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Joe Broach
Hi Anne, I wouldn't call the Viscacha small. I think it's about the same as a Nelson Longflap main compartment. The biggest "advantage" is probably that the Viscacha doesn't need a rack for support. Other potential advantages are: lighter (by half, not counting the eliminated rack), doesn't stick

[RBW] Re: Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Deacon Patrick
Anne, those bags are for the equivalent of fast packing or ultralight back packing. On the Colorado Trail we saw a few folks with this type of set up -- they were racing from Durango to Denver the full 500 miles. Not my dram of whiskey. I like to be warm if it's cold, dry if it's wet, prepared i

Re: [RBW] Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Christopher Chen
It's funny what counts as a "big" bag these days. Chris "10 lbs of apples" Chen On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Anne Paulson wrote: > I'm still thinking about setting up a dedicated mountain bike for > offroad touring. As I read journals and articles online, I see that > the various frame bags

[RBW] Saddlebags vs Revelate bags

2013-10-31 Thread Anne Paulson
I'm still thinking about setting up a dedicated mountain bike for offroad touring. As I read journals and articles online, I see that the various frame bags made by Revelate and others are becoming popular. Like this one: https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/Seat-Bags/Viscacha

[RBW] Re: Nitto love and more box origami

2013-10-31 Thread Brewster Fong
On Thursday, October 31, 2013 12:54:16 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > I got a Riv Box yesterday. My order was Steel Albatross bars, tektro > brakelevers, a bar of grampa's pine tar soap, a black and white bandanna, > and some goldy brassy ferrules. > > 1. The box was so small that I was

[RBW] Re: Need collectives help on color choice.

2013-10-31 Thread Philip Williamson
Pea sage green, hands down. One of the great Rivendell colors. And I'm a giant fan of orange bikes. Philip www.biketinker.com On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:23:36 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: > > Hi Bunch, > > New to me Atlantis and having it painted and need you opinions on which > color to go w

[RBW] Nitto love and more box origami

2013-10-31 Thread Bill Lindsay
I got a Riv Box yesterday. My order was Steel Albatross bars, tektro brakelevers, a bar of grampa's pine tar soap, a black and white bandanna, and some goldy brassy ferrules. 1. The box was so small that I was 100% CERTAIN that one of three things had happened: A. they forgot to ship th

[RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Mike On A Bike
Thanks for all of the input, but it turns out I've changed my fancy crank overhaul plans some. I decided to get White ENO arms and set these up as a double, and I'll be pairing it with a 113 mm SKF BB that I bought from Compass. Jan Heine said I should be fine with a 113 for that even though th

Re: [RBW] Re: Winter Projects, 2013/14 version

2013-10-31 Thread Ryan
OK...I'm not brave enough for fixed, and I admire those who ride fixies, especially when they ride them with grace and skill...there's a local courier who rides an old flat black fixie of mysterious origins all year round in all kinds of weather and his style is just so effortlessbut when

[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Stub Stewart Overnight from Portland/Hillsboro MAX

2013-10-31 Thread Shawn Granton
It was a decent little trip. Still need to work on my write-up, but here's photos: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/sets/72157637164143863/ -Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from t

Re: [RBW] Re: It's here!

2013-10-31 Thread Dave
I read it from cover to cover last night. What a great job they've done putting together an aesthetically pleasing, joyfully educational, and truly authentic-to-themselves catalogue On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:17:04 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: > > Joe, > > I think you nailed it. > > Best, >

[RBW] Re: 56 Ram stolen in Berkeley CA

2013-10-31 Thread hsmitham
I can't imagine losing a bike as beautiful as yours, really hope you get it back! I'm totally paranoid leaving my AHH anywhere for too long. ~Hugh On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:21:52 PM UTC-7, danmc wrote: > > Spotted this on the SF Craigslist. > > My 56cm 2003 Rambouillet was stolen from my pl

Re: [RBW] Re: Homer goes to Amish country.

2013-10-31 Thread Iron Rider
According the the interwebs the use of bicycles by the Amish vary according to Geography. They are not permitted in Lancaster County but are permitted in other areas. *"The PA Amish church placed a taboo on the bicycle in order to keep youth close to home. However, non-motorized scooters are

[RBW] Re: 56 Ram stolen in Berkeley CA

2013-10-31 Thread Ryan
Man, I hope you get your bike back. Best of luck On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:21:52 PM UTC-5, danmc wrote: > > Spotted this on the SF Craigslist. > > My 56cm 2003 Rambouillet was stolen from my place of business in West > Berkeley (see map), shortly before lunchtime on Monday, October 27. > >

[RBW] Re: Matching bartape for Bleriot?

2013-10-31 Thread Frank
On the list and still here. I exchanged back-channel email with Michael, but for the group, the tape on the Bleriot is one of the Japanese blues that Rivendell used to sell. Not sure who manufactured it, but someone in the Bay Area probably has a line on it. Couldn't find it on the Yellow Jerse

[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Stub Stewart Overnight from Portland/Hillsboro MAX

2013-10-31 Thread Andy Smitty Schmidt
Nice report and great pics, Chris. Bummed I couldn't join you. --Smitty On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:57:23 PM UTC-7, Christopher Chen wrote: > > Most of you know the route from Hatfield Government Center Station. > > According to the weather talkers, a system is supposed to come in today. >

[RBW] FS: 58.5cm Curt built Riv Custom F/F/HS

2013-10-31 Thread stoker
Hello all – I am selling my 58.5 cm Curt Goodrich built Rivendell Custom frameset/fork. It includes the ‘fancy’ paint details on the fork tips, seat and chainstay bridges, ‘keyhole’ on the seat lug, etc. It is in excellent condition – no chips, scrapes, dents, dings, blemishes. It is in fant

[RBW] Re: Matching bartape for Bleriot?

2013-10-31 Thread Minh
it's been a long time since i've seen a bleriot IRL. the roll i just put onto my SH, maybe. the roll i have in storage i don't think so, it's a little too dark. that's the warning that i have about the viva, there seems to be quite a bit of variation from batch to batch. i think the reason

[RBW] Re: FS: 1st gen / Riv MUSA pant / s: small

2013-10-31 Thread greenteadrinkers
Pants have been sold, thanks everyone. Best, Scott On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:26:15 AM UTC-4, greenteadrinkers wrote: > > New price - $20.00 shipped. > > Best, > Scott > > On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 12:57:57 PM UTC-4, greenteadrinkers wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Selling my lightly used pai

[RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Ron Mc
ps - might also call the folks at Boulder Bicycle since they sell and install both the SKF and Carmina. On Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:39:59 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote: > > a reply to Mike on the SKF BB. This is a symmetric BB, and they offer > spacers up to 4mm. I would go for the 116 and make

[RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Ron Mc
a reply to Mike on the SKF BB. This is a symmetric BB, and they offer spacers up to 4mm. I would go for the 116 and make sure you have the 3 available spacers (1.5, 2, 4). This will get you up to the extra 10mm with the width plus spacer offset, and gives you 3 other options for dialing in c

[RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Garth
And really, I found it best to simply invest in a number of sizes of cartridge BBs to have on hand to test with . I don't recomment the Shimano UN-54/55 as they have a lid on the non DS cup that does not allow for DS spacers and the slight shift in the cartridge in the shell. Tange LN-3922's a

[RBW] Re: TA Carmina BB recommendation - Atlantis

2013-10-31 Thread Garth
I'm going to contradict myself and say I think I may have used a 110 Tange w/DS spacers with the Carmina triple lol. I cannot recall for sure ! I sold them a while ago. I'm pretty sure RIV has not had experience with Car

[RBW] Re: wtb: Rivendell Bombadil ~ 56cm ~ diagatube?

2013-10-31 Thread Garth
The Bomba is pretty much a full custom frame anyways these days. the price difference, if any, is negligible. So just make it an official "custom" and you can have anything you wish. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To un

Re: [RBW] Re: Homer goes to Amish country.

2013-10-31 Thread Ron Mc
thanks for the info, and enjoyed the blog On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 9:40:33 PM UTC-5, Robert Barr wrote: > > The Amish communities in northern Indiana are heavily bicycle oriented, to > the degree that there are some remarkable home-crafted cargo and child > carrying bikes. Bob (Indianapoli

[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Stub Stewart Overnight from Portland/Hillsboro MAX

2013-10-31 Thread hsmitham
Chris, I enjoyed the pictures and as I'm a Southy don't know if I have the metal to 1. Wake up at 6am (I work Swing) 2.Ride in below freezing temps in darkness. The galaxy picture was great.Thanks for sharing. ~Hugh On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:57:23 PM UTC-7, Christopher Chen wrote: > >