[RBW] Re: Has anybody 650'ed a Riv Road?

['Peter Bridge' via RBW Owners Bunch]

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 1:29:48 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:

Out of curiosity, did you get the pink one off craigslist?  If so, please 
don't paint it.  Be brave enough to ride pink. 


Who, me? I carefully delayed until it vanished. I was tempted to chase it.  
I'm already pretty heavily invested, emotion and energy rather than funds, 
in a bike that checks a lot of boxes for me, including clearing 38 tires. 
Would have taken no bravery for me to ride a pink bike. A screaming pink 
Eisentraut was my main ride for 25 years. Pink bikes might be the only 
bikes that are cooler than orange bikes.

Thanks, everybody for the responses.

~pb

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[RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[DamonLee]

Hi David, what stem are your rocking there? Is it a quill stem or an 
adapter + stem combo? Any photos would be great - your platy looks so at 
home in the woods there!

On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 1:14:19 PM UTC+11 DavidP wrote:

> I'm in the same boat as Tom - sized up on a  60cm Platy. Mine has a 120mm 
> stem and 650mm Toscos and I love the huge fore-aft position range they give 
> me (from 75-45 degrees back angle, or even lower depending on how much I 
> bend my arms). I can stand and pedal holding the bars back at the grips or 
> further up at the "ramps" and find myself doing both. I will grip the flats 
> of the Tosco when I want to be less upright on the open road but prefer a 
> wider grip for standing climbing.
>
> My Platypus looks pretty long but that may just be the proportions of the 
> fit:
> [image: R001-002U8A3910_platy-1080.jpg]
>
> -Dave
>
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 9:06:57 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> [image: Clementine2344.jpg]
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your thoughts so far everyone! 
>>
>> Tom - Here is a pic of my setup. Im trying not to fiddle with the build 
>> too much at this point. 
>>
>> Garth - I actually really like this bike and find it extremely 
>> comfortable, just a different style of riding. I tend to sit and climb on 
>> most of my bikes I've owned. I was just curious because the arrangement is 
>> considerably different than a traditional geometry bike and riding style. 
>>
>> Kim - I find it similar. Especially fast descending feels great standing. 
>> Eventually I sit back down and spin away. haha 
>>
>> I do find Loscos a bit more ergonomic for an aggressive forward position 
>> with a lesser bend and have considered trying a swap - but the bar end 
>> shifter always makes me put it off. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:41:07 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm, I guess I could grab the low flats up front on the Bosco for 
>>> standing, I hadn't thought of that. It would be similar to a flatbar 
>>> mountain bike. I'll try it! 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:21:00 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 That's pretty aggressive Garth, I don't think Mackenzy signed up for 
 being confronted. 

 To answer the question the thread is about: I use Boscos on my custom 
 and sit bolt upright and love it. I don't stand, I spin, cuz that's my jam.

 Joe Bernard 

 On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:52:17 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Since you already know that the Bosco doesn't work for you with your 
> Clementine, why haven't you changed the bars and stem to allow for more 
> effective reach and use of the steering aixs? I wouldn't touch a Bosco 
> with 
> a ten foot pole either for the very reason you stated. I bought a Tosco 
> and 
> simply in my hands my only  thought was "what the heck was I thinking ?" 
> The only swept back bar I can take is a 56cm steel Albatross and that's 
> with a 130mm stem on frames that have longer than average top tubes and 
> frame reach. I ride them stretched out and even or just above the saddle. 
>  
> To me an "upright posture" for bike riding is very unnatural. Don't let a 
> builder/seller's idea-l bar prevent you from finding your won. They're 
> not 
> you. There's endless bar shapes so you're bound to find the right combo 
> for 
> you. 
>


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[RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Luke Hendrickson]

Much of what’s been said is why I run the Nitto Bullmoose bars on my 
Atlantis. It feels swept back enough and I can still get a more 
‘aggressive’ riding position should I wish to do so. 

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 6:06:57 PM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> [image: Clementine2344.jpg]
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts so far everyone! 
>
> Tom - Here is a pic of my setup. Im trying not to fiddle with the build 
> too much at this point. 
>
> Garth - I actually really like this bike and find it extremely 
> comfortable, just a different style of riding. I tend to sit and climb on 
> most of my bikes I've owned. I was just curious because the arrangement is 
> considerably different than a traditional geometry bike and riding style. 
>
> Kim - I find it similar. Especially fast descending feels great standing. 
> Eventually I sit back down and spin away. haha 
>
> I do find Loscos a bit more ergonomic for an aggressive forward position 
> with a lesser bend and have considered trying a swap - but the bar end 
> shifter always makes me put it off. 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:41:07 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Hmm, I guess I could grab the low flats up front on the Bosco for 
>> standing, I hadn't thought of that. It would be similar to a flatbar 
>> mountain bike. I'll try it! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:21:00 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> That's pretty aggressive Garth, I don't think Mackenzy signed up for 
>>> being confronted. 
>>>
>>> To answer the question the thread is about: I use Boscos on my custom 
>>> and sit bolt upright and love it. I don't stand, I spin, cuz that's my jam.
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:52:17 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>>
 Since you already know that the Bosco doesn't work for you with your 
 Clementine, why haven't you changed the bars and stem to allow for more 
 effective reach and use of the steering aixs? I wouldn't touch a Bosco 
 with 
 a ten foot pole either for the very reason you stated. I bought a Tosco 
 and 
 simply in my hands my only  thought was "what the heck was I thinking ?" 
 The only swept back bar I can take is a 56cm steel Albatross and that's 
 with a 130mm stem on frames that have longer than average top tubes and 
 frame reach. I ride them stretched out and even or just above the saddle.  
 To me an "upright posture" for bike riding is very unnatural. Don't let a 
 builder/seller's idea-l bar prevent you from finding your won. They're not 
 you. There's endless bar shapes so you're bound to find the right combo 
 for 
 you. 

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Joe Bernard]

Hmm, I guess I could grab the low flats up front on the Bosco for standing, 
I hadn't thought of that. It would be similar to a flatbar mountain bike. 
I'll try it! 

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:21:00 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That's pretty aggressive Garth, I don't think Mackenzy signed up for being 
> confronted. 
>
> To answer the question the thread is about: I use Boscos on my custom and 
> sit bolt upright and love it. I don't stand, I spin, cuz that's my jam.
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:52:17 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>
>> Since you already know that the Bosco doesn't work for you with your 
>> Clementine, why haven't you changed the bars and stem to allow for more 
>> effective reach and use of the steering aixs? I wouldn't touch a Bosco with 
>> a ten foot pole either for the very reason you stated. I bought a Tosco and 
>> simply in my hands my only  thought was "what the heck was I thinking ?" 
>> The only swept back bar I can take is a 56cm steel Albatross and that's 
>> with a 130mm stem on frames that have longer than average top tubes and 
>> frame reach. I ride them stretched out and even or just above the saddle.  
>> To me an "upright posture" for bike riding is very unnatural. Don't let a 
>> builder/seller's idea-l bar prevent you from finding your won. They're not 
>> you. There's endless bar shapes so you're bound to find the right combo for 
>> you. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Kim Hetzel]

MacKenzy,

Since, I have owned my Clem "L" bike with Bosco bars from last September, I 
primarily remain seated and spin. My pace of riding is mostly slow and easy 
going. I do not feel the need to stand up in the pedals, except only to get 
temporary relief from sitting in the saddle too long for a short while. 
Upon doing this, I find my hand position changes onto the upper bend of the 
handlebars from my grips.  

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.


On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I've recently been riding my more traditional geometry fixed gear quite a 
> bit for "urban commuting". Out of necessity I've been standing and 
> "mashing" more on inclines. I recall most of my "traditional diamond frame 
> bikes" I would stand and pedal a fair amount. 
>
> Every time I switch back to my Clementine with Boscos I find standing 
> pedaling to be quite un-natural feeling with my hands more or less by my 
> thighs. It works for a short burst to speed up my cadence but doesn't seem 
> like an option for sustainable climbing. 
>
> It's got me thinking with the laid back seat tubes, swept back bars, what 
> is peoples instinctive climbing methods on "hillibikes" (not traditional 
> geo rivs)
>
> Seated spinning? Or have you found a method of standing and pedaling that 
> works well. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Joe Bernard]

That's pretty aggressive Garth, I don't think Mackenzy signed up for being 
confronted. 

To answer the question the thread is about: I use Boscos on my custom and 
sit bolt upright and love it. I don't stand, I spin, cuz that's my jam.

Joe Bernard 

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 4:52:17 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Since you already know that the Bosco doesn't work for you with your 
> Clementine, why haven't you changed the bars and stem to allow for more 
> effective reach and use of the steering aixs? I wouldn't touch a Bosco with 
> a ten foot pole either for the very reason you stated. I bought a Tosco and 
> simply in my hands my only  thought was "what the heck was I thinking ?" 
> The only swept back bar I can take is a 56cm steel Albatross and that's 
> with a 130mm stem on frames that have longer than average top tubes and 
> frame reach. I ride them stretched out and even or just above the saddle.  
> To me an "upright posture" for bike riding is very unnatural. Don't let a 
> builder/seller's idea-l bar prevent you from finding your won. They're not 
> you. There's endless bar shapes so you're bound to find the right combo for 
> you. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Hoch in ut]

My main mountain bike is a singlespeed so I know what you mean by standing 
and mashing. For bikes with swept back bars, it just doesn’t work for me to 
do that. 
When I had the Clem on steep dirt roads, I sit and spin. 
First reason, as you stated, bars are too close to your legs. It feels very 
awkward. 

Second, with such long wheelbase, and more importantly, gigantic 
chainstays, it actually helps to sit and keep the weight back to give that 
rear wheel some traction. Especially when it gets loose and rocky. Just 
gear down and the thing tractors up some steep climbs. It doesn’t feel 
natural as a single speeder but you get used to it. 

If you must stand, I put my hands closer to the front of the bars.  There 
not really a great way to grip it, but it’s better than hands by your 
thighs. 

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-6 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I've recently been riding my more traditional geometry fixed gear quite a 
> bit for "urban commuting". Out of necessity I've been standing and 
> "mashing" more on inclines. I recall most of my "traditional diamond frame 
> bikes" I would stand and pedal a fair amount. 
>
> Every time I switch back to my Clementine with Boscos I find standing 
> pedaling to be quite un-natural feeling with my hands more or less by my 
> thighs. It works for a short burst to speed up my cadence but doesn't seem 
> like an option for sustainable climbing. 
>
> It's got me thinking with the laid back seat tubes, swept back bars, what 
> is peoples instinctive climbing methods on "hillibikes" (not traditional 
> geo rivs)
>
> Seated spinning? Or have you found a method of standing and pedaling that 
> works well. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Garth]

Since you already know that the Bosco doesn't work for you with your 
Clementine, why haven't you changed the bars and stem to allow for more 
effective reach and use of the steering aixs? I wouldn't touch a Bosco with 
a ten foot pole either for the very reason you stated. I bought a Tosco and 
simply in my hands my only  thought was "what the heck was I thinking ?" 
The only swept back bar I can take is a 56cm steel Albatross and that's 
with a 130mm stem on frames that have longer than average top tubes and 
frame reach. I ride them stretched out and even or just above the saddle.  
To me an "upright posture" for bike riding is very unnatural. Don't let a 
builder/seller's idea-l bar prevent you from finding your won. They're not 
you. There's endless bar shapes so you're bound to find the right combo for 
you. 

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[RBW] Re: Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Tom Palmer]

I have a 60cm Platypus that I am at the very bottom of PBH recommendation. 
It is a long bike. I am using VO Granola bars flipped and not as high as 
most that I see on the list. I still use a pretty long stem and stand to 
climb often. I taped the front part of the bars for even farther forward 
grip. If the bars were higher and closer, I would not feel comfortable 
standing either. I never made Boscos work for me, but never tried on 
something as long as the Platypus. 
Any pictures of your bike to share? 
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:13:14 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I've recently been riding my more traditional geometry fixed gear quite a 
> bit for "urban commuting". Out of necessity I've been standing and 
> "mashing" more on inclines. I recall most of my "traditional diamond frame 
> bikes" I would stand and pedal a fair amount. 
>
> Every time I switch back to my Clementine with Boscos I find standing 
> pedaling to be quite un-natural feeling with my hands more or less by my 
> thighs. It works for a short burst to speed up my cadence but doesn't seem 
> like an option for sustainable climbing. 
>
> It's got me thinking with the laid back seat tubes, swept back bars, what 
> is peoples instinctive climbing methods on "hillibikes" (not traditional 
> geo rivs)
>
> Seated spinning? Or have you found a method of standing and pedaling that 
> works well. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Sharing Your Winter Ride Fotos 2023

[Stephanie A.]

Paul, that beautiful picture *almost* makes me yearn for my Dallas days.

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:05:49 PM UTC-4 Paul in Dallas wrote:

>
>
> From today's ride on my Sam Hillborne.
>
> Paul in Dallas 
>
> Sent from AT Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>

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[RBW] Hillibikers - do you stand and pedal?

[Mackenzy Albright]

I've recently been riding my more traditional geometry fixed gear quite a 
bit for "urban commuting". Out of necessity I've been standing and 
"mashing" more on inclines. I recall most of my "traditional diamond frame 
bikes" I would stand and pedal a fair amount. 

Every time I switch back to my Clementine with Boscos I find standing 
pedaling to be quite un-natural feeling with my hands more or less by my 
thighs. It works for a short burst to speed up my cadence but doesn't seem 
like an option for sustainable climbing. 

It's got me thinking with the laid back seat tubes, swept back bars, what 
is peoples instinctive climbing methods on "hillibikes" (not traditional 
geo rivs)

Seated spinning? Or have you found a method of standing and pedaling that 
works well. 

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[RBW] Re: Adjusting Toyo Atlantis geometry

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Seems a great and worthwhile experiment, I look forward to your follow up. 
-Kai

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:14:47 PM UTC-4 Jay P wrote:

> I do a lot of trail riding + loaded bike picnicking with a 58cm Toyo 
> Atlantis (72.0 degree head tube and seat tube).  
>
>  
>
> And I have noticed those angles slacken a bit on Rivendell production 
> frames over the last 10-15 years
>
>  
>
> I also saw that in addition to the regular 1mm baseplate for the fork 
> crown the Chris King website also lists a thicker 5mm baseplate that they 
> no longer produce, sell, or are willing to manufacture. 
>
>  
>
> At some point I realized a thicker baseplate would slacken the Atlantis 
> head and seat tubes and started to wonder how that would change the nature 
> of the bike.  
>
>
> And figured a thicker baseplate would be fine on my Atlantis as it has 
> ~15mm of extra steerer tube, a very low bottom bracket, and is a little 
> undersized for my 91cm pbh. And as Chris King uses base plates rather than 
> crown races (ie, it does not serve as a bearing race), I figured a custom 
> fabricated piece would likely work fine.
>
>  
>
> So eventually I asked Jim Merz (via the Classic Rendezvous list) to 
> fabricate an 8mm thick baseplate – that is pictured next to the original 
> baseplate (he made it out of 10-2-3 Ti alloy) -- which I believe will 
> slacken the Atlantis angles by ~0.43 degrees. I was aiming for somewhere 
> between too much change and too subtle to notice.  
>
>  
>
> I’ll try the thicker baseplate with no other changes to the bike, and then 
> will swap the current 46cm noodle bars + 10cm dirt drop stem with a 135mm 
> face plate stem + wavie bars + lugged seat post (to experiment with further 
> slackening the effective seat tube angle) to get a still relaxed and 
> upright but more assertive and stretched riding position for trails (and 
> maybe a little better for a wider range of handlebars). 
>
>  
>
> I won’t be able to install until the end of March but thought to share the 
> idea with the group in case this is novel or interesting –  it’s been fun 
> to think through and will be an easy experiment to undo.
>
>
> Jay P.
>
> Marin, CA 
>
>
> [image: IMG_8033.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Riders in Western NC

['Gary L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Yes, Steve - all the options I selected were the weekends of May and the 
first weekend of June.

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:09:19 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you Gary for setting this up!Are you thinking weekends, or...?
>
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:59:12 PM UTC-4 Gary L wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone, at the risk of being presumptuous I went ahead and created 
>> this Doodle scheduling poll to see what (if any) weekend dates in May/June 
>> would work best for a Riv group meetup in Asheville.  Just click on the 
>> link and it will guide you to a calendar that will allow you to select the 
>> dates you are (and are not) available for a weekend meetup. After about a 
>> week, I can post the results and we can either take the planning further 
>> from there or else pick different dates and try again.  Here is the link to 
>> the poll:  https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/eXQgKnka
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 11:00:51 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Gary, I second your suggestion.   I lived in North Asheville on Melrose 
>>> St for a number of years - I'm currently on the south side. Those roads 
>>> above the Grove Park Inn and on to Town Mountain and then the BRPW were my 
>>> go to routes (that was back when Michael Davis owned ProBikes). I haven't 
>>> ridden up that way for over a decade. Good to hear it's still decent 
>>> riding. 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:23 PM 'Gary L' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 Steve - Yes, Bent Creek and the River Arts sounds good. We could also 
 add another ride the following day on quiet roads (they do exist!) just 
 north of downtown, up Sunset to Town Mt, around Montford, etc. that could 
 follow the Asheville bike routes.

 On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 4:47:59 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> Gary, May would be a good choice. September is  generally a bit 
> quieter as well. I'm guessing most would prefer a weekend???   
>
> I'm thinking a 3-4 hour ride at Bent Creek early in the day and then 
> possibly an afternoon to early evening ride on the River Arts District 
> greenway concluding with a stop for food & beverage. 
>
> Anyone want to weigh in?
>
> On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 12:28:31 PM UTC-4 Gary L wrote:
>
>> Steve, I agree that July 4 wknd would not be the best time for a 
>> gathering as Asheville gets mobbed then. But if we can find a suitable 
>> date 
>> I’d be happy to help with some organizing of the gathering. Seems like 
>> the 
>> biggest hurdle is getting a date nailed down. Any summer date would 
>> probably work for me, but I’d suggest late May/early June if we wanted 
>> to 
>> avoid July 4. Not quite as many tourists here then.
>>
>> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 5:38:05 PM UTC-5 steve...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Giving this thread a bump -  Hate to see it get lost.  Trigger 
>>> Warning: Long Post.
>>>
>>> I've been living and riding in Asheville for 30 some years now, and 
>>> would be happy to offer some route ideas - but first a caveat. The 
>>> Asheville metro area has seen phenomenal growth over the past decade 
>>> (from 
>>> 282,000 to 371,000 residents). We're also seeing about 11 million 
>>> annual 
>>> visitors. 
>>>
>>> The result of the rapid growth  transpo infrastructure has been 
>>> overwhelmed. Paved routes around town and the surrounding county that 
>>> were 
>>> old favorites have mostly become Thunderdome rides. --   
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JKZKjFjHDM ---   
>>>
>>> If you're still reading this - in addition to the decline in road 
>>> riding pleasantness,  the best close to town off pavement riding (Bent 
>>> Creek) has become a "regional destination". Trailhead parking can 
>>> be a challenge, especially on weekends. Having said that, BC and the 
>>> Pisgah 
>>> National Forest are still great riding. If you want you can climb up to 
>>> Bent Tree Gap  and descend on the BRPW through two tunnels  (bring 
>>> your lights).  Ample (& secure) parking is available at the NC 
>>> Arboretum 
>>> for $20 per vehicle. I have an annual membership and could transport up 
>>> to 
>>> 4 bikes and three passengers. 
>>>
>>> As already mentioned, the new urban greenway in the River Arts 
>>> District is pleasant, albeit short, with multiple interesting places to 
>>> stop for food and/or beverage or just to gawk at the graffiti murals.. 
>>> There are some opportunities to climb up into surrounding neighborhoods 
>>> on fairly quiet streets.   There also happens to be a small RV park 
>>> (with a 
>>> tent area) that the western end of the River Greenway. runs right 
>>> through.
>>>
>>>  I do not recommend planning a 

Re: [RBW] Re: Taking it to 2

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot: lash: I'm still learning about the different hubs, but I did read
that the minimal lash on the TF is due to the bare simplicity of the gear
system due, I think in part to the "natural" 75% drop versus the slightly
more complex design needed for a smaller drop. I mean to read further to
find out about the 3:4 ratio and what about it requires less stuff.

That said, the TC (and the AM which has the same 86.54% drops) doesn't feel
any more draggy than the TF or than a direct cog-to-hub-to-tire drive, for
that matter.



On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 2:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> The TF and TC wheels will be occasional wheels, thus quick-on/quick-off
> systems; at least for now.
>
> TC wheel for Spring winds so I can gear down from 76" to 66" without
> moving the chain -- tho' that's not hard with the QR axle. I may just have
> the wheel rebuilt as a "main" fixed wheel for the AM-hub errand bike, where
> I miss a fixed drivetrain.
>
> The TF is for hillier rides. I can no longer climb Tramway to the East
> standing (with very short breaks) in a 76" or even 68" (19 cog on the
> Dingle), and there are some nice climbs to the west that are as steep or
> steeper tho' much shorter.
>
> QR shifter means for now thinly taping general area for shifter and
> bending clamp sufficiently (doesn't take much) to install or remove; and
> taping ditto for the roller, but that has a 2-piece clamp so goes on and
> off with no bending.
>
> I think, or thought that the TC hub requires more cable pull than the TF
> to shift from direct to low, and I and someone else speculated that this
> was because the original driver was swapped for an AW driver. So I ordered
> a 3-speed quadrant shifter (for same on/off routine) -- due today, in fact
> -- which has a longer (2nd to 1st) pull; but on more fiddling and thinking
> I think that the problem (TF shifter not pulling enough cable to get TC
> innards far enough away from neutral into low) might have been due simply
> to the shifter being insufficiently tightly clamped and sliding slightly on
> the tape. I did replace the flat head screw with an allen bolt. I will try
> the TC again with the TF shifter now that it's tightly in place.
>
> One day I might simply make the TF wheel the "main" wheel, but for now the
> Phil Dingle is the one I'll ride most. If I do make the TF permanent, I'll
> probably install a trigger shifter on the bar.
>
> The Naches Pass experiment probably has only a few days left as the (brand
> new) rear tire is slowly expanding with use; there is no more than 2 mm on
> each side at the chainstays and I expect it won't be long before it grows
> beyond clearing.
>
> Lots to learn.
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 9:41 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> So now you've got three rear wheels for this bike.  Do you expect to be
>> swapping them in and out frequently with your daily whims?  Or do you think
>> one will be the normal?
>>
>> Do you attribute the smaller lash on the TF to it's being NOS?  and the
>> larger lash on the TC because it is used?
>> Will you use the TC predominantly and only use the TF when you are going
>> on longer climbs?
>> Why does the driver conversion on the TC influence the necessary cable
>> pull?
>> Is your sorted shifter architecture all quick change like you had
>> planned?  How long does it take?
>> Is this project complete?  Or are there more stages in the works?
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Riders in Western NC

[Steve]

Thank you Gary for setting this up!Are you thinking weekends, or...?

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:59:12 PM UTC-4 Gary L wrote:

> Hi Everyone, at the risk of being presumptuous I went ahead and created 
> this Doodle scheduling poll to see what (if any) weekend dates in May/June 
> would work best for a Riv group meetup in Asheville.  Just click on the 
> link and it will guide you to a calendar that will allow you to select the 
> dates you are (and are not) available for a weekend meetup. After about a 
> week, I can post the results and we can either take the planning further 
> from there or else pick different dates and try again.  Here is the link to 
> the poll:  https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/eXQgKnka
>
> Gary
>
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 11:00:51 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Gary, I second your suggestion.   I lived in North Asheville on Melrose 
>> St for a number of years - I'm currently on the south side. Those roads 
>> above the Grove Park Inn and on to Town Mountain and then the BRPW were my 
>> go to routes (that was back when Michael Davis owned ProBikes). I haven't 
>> ridden up that way for over a decade. Good to hear it's still decent 
>> riding. 
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:23 PM 'Gary L' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Steve - Yes, Bent Creek and the River Arts sounds good. We could also 
>>> add another ride the following day on quiet roads (they do exist!) just 
>>> north of downtown, up Sunset to Town Mt, around Montford, etc. that could 
>>> follow the Asheville bike routes.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 4:47:59 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Gary, May would be a good choice. September is  generally a bit quieter 
 as well. I'm guessing most would prefer a weekend???   

 I'm thinking a 3-4 hour ride at Bent Creek early in the day and then 
 possibly an afternoon to early evening ride on the River Arts District 
 greenway concluding with a stop for food & beverage. 

 Anyone want to weigh in?

 On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 12:28:31 PM UTC-4 Gary L wrote:

> Steve, I agree that July 4 wknd would not be the best time for a 
> gathering as Asheville gets mobbed then. But if we can find a suitable 
> date 
> I’d be happy to help with some organizing of the gathering. Seems like 
> the 
> biggest hurdle is getting a date nailed down. Any summer date would 
> probably work for me, but I’d suggest late May/early June if we wanted to 
> avoid July 4. Not quite as many tourists here then.
>
> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 5:38:05 PM UTC-5 steve...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Giving this thread a bump -  Hate to see it get lost.  Trigger 
>> Warning: Long Post.
>>
>> I've been living and riding in Asheville for 30 some years now, and 
>> would be happy to offer some route ideas - but first a caveat. The 
>> Asheville metro area has seen phenomenal growth over the past decade 
>> (from 
>> 282,000 to 371,000 residents). We're also seeing about 11 million annual 
>> visitors. 
>>
>> The result of the rapid growth  transpo infrastructure has been 
>> overwhelmed. Paved routes around town and the surrounding county that 
>> were 
>> old favorites have mostly become Thunderdome rides. --   
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JKZKjFjHDM ---   
>>
>> If you're still reading this - in addition to the decline in road 
>> riding pleasantness,  the best close to town off pavement riding (Bent 
>> Creek) has become a "regional destination". Trailhead parking can be 
>> a challenge, especially on weekends. Having said that, BC and the Pisgah 
>> National Forest are still great riding. If you want you can climb up to 
>> Bent Tree Gap  and descend on the BRPW through two tunnels  (bring 
>> your lights).  Ample (& secure) parking is available at the NC Arboretum 
>> for $20 per vehicle. I have an annual membership and could transport up 
>> to 
>> 4 bikes and three passengers. 
>>
>> As already mentioned, the new urban greenway in the River Arts 
>> District is pleasant, albeit short, with multiple interesting places to 
>> stop for food and/or beverage or just to gawk at the graffiti murals.. 
>> There are some opportunities to climb up into surrounding neighborhoods 
>> on fairly quiet streets.   There also happens to be a small RV park 
>> (with a 
>> tent area) that the western end of the River Greenway. runs right 
>> through.
>>
>>  I do not recommend planning a gathering for a holiday weekend --- 
>>  or any time in the month of October.  
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 9:01:54 PM UTC-5 Pam Bikes wrote:
>>
>>> I think we should stick to the Asheville area for the main ride.  I 
>>> know Wilson Creek is beautiful.  I've hiked there.  

Re: [RBW] Re: Taking it to 2

[Patrick Moore]

The TF and TC wheels will be occasional wheels, thus quick-on/quick-off
systems; at least for now.

TC wheel for Spring winds so I can gear down from 76" to 66" without moving
the chain -- tho' that's not hard with the QR axle. I may just have the
wheel rebuilt as a "main" fixed wheel for the AM-hub errand bike, where I
miss a fixed drivetrain.

The TF is for hillier rides. I can no longer climb Tramway to the East
standing (with very short breaks) in a 76" or even 68" (19 cog on the
Dingle), and there are some nice climbs to the west that are as steep or
steeper tho' much shorter.

QR shifter means for now thinly taping general area for shifter and bending
clamp sufficiently (doesn't take much) to install or remove; and taping
ditto for the roller, but that has a 2-piece clamp so goes on and off with
no bending.

I think, or thought that the TC hub requires more cable pull than the TF to
shift from direct to low, and I and someone else speculated that this was
because the original driver was swapped for an AW driver. So I ordered a
3-speed quadrant shifter (for same on/off routine) -- due today, in fact --
which has a longer (2nd to 1st) pull; but on more fiddling and thinking I
think that the problem (TF shifter not pulling enough cable to get TC
innards far enough away from neutral into low) might have been due simply
to the shifter being insufficiently tightly clamped and sliding slightly on
the tape. I did replace the flat head screw with an allen bolt. I will try
the TC again with the TF shifter now that it's tightly in place.

One day I might simply make the TF wheel the "main" wheel, but for now the
Phil Dingle is the one I'll ride most. If I do make the TF permanent, I'll
probably install a trigger shifter on the bar.

The Naches Pass experiment probably has only a few days left as the (brand
new) rear tire is slowly expanding with use; there is no more than 2 mm on
each side at the chainstays and I expect it won't be long before it grows
beyond clearing.

Lots to learn.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 9:41 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> So now you've got three rear wheels for this bike.  Do you expect to be
> swapping them in and out frequently with your daily whims?  Or do you think
> one will be the normal?
>
> Do you attribute the smaller lash on the TF to it's being NOS?  and the
> larger lash on the TC because it is used?
> Will you use the TC predominantly and only use the TF when you are going
> on longer climbs?
> Why does the driver conversion on the TC influence the necessary cable
> pull?
> Is your sorted shifter architecture all quick change like you had
> planned?  How long does it take?
> Is this project complete?  Or are there more stages in the works?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Riders in Western NC

['Gary L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Everyone, at the risk of being presumptuous I went ahead and created 
this Doodle scheduling poll to see what (if any) weekend dates in May/June 
would work best for a Riv group meetup in Asheville.  Just click on the 
link and it will guide you to a calendar that will allow you to select the 
dates you are (and are not) available for a weekend meetup. After about a 
week, I can post the results and we can either take the planning further 
from there or else pick different dates and try again.  Here is the link to 
the poll:  https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/eXQgKnka

Gary

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 11:00:51 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> Gary, I second your suggestion.   I lived in North Asheville on Melrose St 
> for a number of years - I'm currently on the south side. Those roads above 
> the Grove Park Inn and on to Town Mountain and then the BRPW were my go 
> to routes (that was back when Michael Davis owned ProBikes). I haven't 
> ridden up that way for over a decade. Good to hear it's still decent 
> riding. 
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:23 PM 'Gary L' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Steve - Yes, Bent Creek and the River Arts sounds good. We could also add 
>> another ride the following day on quiet roads (they do exist!) just north 
>> of downtown, up Sunset to Town Mt, around Montford, etc. that could follow 
>> the Asheville bike routes.
>>
>> On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 4:47:59 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Gary, May would be a good choice. September is  generally a bit quieter 
>>> as well. I'm guessing most would prefer a weekend???   
>>>
>>> I'm thinking a 3-4 hour ride at Bent Creek early in the day and then 
>>> possibly an afternoon to early evening ride on the River Arts District 
>>> greenway concluding with a stop for food & beverage. 
>>>
>>> Anyone want to weigh in?
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 12:28:31 PM UTC-4 Gary L wrote:
>>>
 Steve, I agree that July 4 wknd would not be the best time for a 
 gathering as Asheville gets mobbed then. But if we can find a suitable 
 date 
 I’d be happy to help with some organizing of the gathering. Seems like the 
 biggest hurdle is getting a date nailed down. Any summer date would 
 probably work for me, but I’d suggest late May/early June if we wanted to 
 avoid July 4. Not quite as many tourists here then.

 On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 5:38:05 PM UTC-5 steve...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Giving this thread a bump -  Hate to see it get lost.  Trigger 
> Warning: Long Post.
>
> I've been living and riding in Asheville for 30 some years now, and 
> would be happy to offer some route ideas - but first a caveat. The 
> Asheville metro area has seen phenomenal growth over the past decade 
> (from 
> 282,000 to 371,000 residents). We're also seeing about 11 million annual 
> visitors. 
>
> The result of the rapid growth  transpo infrastructure has been 
> overwhelmed. Paved routes around town and the surrounding county that 
> were 
> old favorites have mostly become Thunderdome rides. --   
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JKZKjFjHDM ---   
>
> If you're still reading this - in addition to the decline in road 
> riding pleasantness,  the best close to town off pavement riding (Bent 
> Creek) has become a "regional destination". Trailhead parking can be 
> a challenge, especially on weekends. Having said that, BC and the Pisgah 
> National Forest are still great riding. If you want you can climb up to 
> Bent Tree Gap  and descend on the BRPW through two tunnels  (bring 
> your lights).  Ample (& secure) parking is available at the NC Arboretum 
> for $20 per vehicle. I have an annual membership and could transport up 
> to 
> 4 bikes and three passengers. 
>
> As already mentioned, the new urban greenway in the River Arts 
> District is pleasant, albeit short, with multiple interesting places to 
> stop for food and/or beverage or just to gawk at the graffiti murals.. 
> There are some opportunities to climb up into surrounding neighborhoods 
> on fairly quiet streets.   There also happens to be a small RV park (with 
> a 
> tent area) that the western end of the River Greenway. runs right 
> through.
>
>  I do not recommend planning a gathering for a holiday weekend ---  or 
> any time in the month of October.  
>
>
> On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 9:01:54 PM UTC-5 Pam Bikes wrote:
>
>> I think we should stick to the Asheville area for the main ride.  I 
>> know Wilson Creek is beautiful.  I've hiked there.  I ride fully loaded 
>> and 
>> am not into hiking a bike.  Mine is too heavy.  I think we should shoot 
>> for 
>> a ride in Asheville at the end of June 
>> For those who want to do Wilson Creek would y'all want to a 2 part 

[RBW] Re: Tubus Log EVO on a 650B Platypus

[Mr. Ray]

Tubus Logo rear rack is a great rear rack for short/normal chainstay's 
because the pannier rails sit further back.  Platypus has long chainstays 
so a rack without compensation would be more appropriate.  Logo will fit 
650B.  If not, Tubus sells an accessory rack kit to adjust rack mounting 
points.

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 1:55:57 PM UTC-4 C Lin wrote:

> Tubus website says it works for 26" and 28" wheels so I assume it should 
> work for 27.5" 650B?
>
>
> Carlos in "usually sunny but less so this winter" So Cal.
>

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[RBW] Review: Neugent Wheels

[Piaw Na]

I promised a review of those wheels earlier, so here it 
is: https://blog.piaw.net/2023/03/review-neugent-cycling-a422towox-wheels.html

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Re: [RBW] Has anybody 650'ed a Riv Road?

[JohnS]

Hello Peter, 

Have you checked on the 650b group? https://groups.google.com/g/650b

Steve, 

Super nice build. Plus 1 on using the VO/Roadrunner rando bag, I mount mine 
to the rack like you did. Just the right size for me, not too big, not too 
small.

John

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 11:19:16 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> I can't speak specifically to 700c to 650b conversion on a Riv, but I have 
> done the switch with a Sampson Silverton racing bike that I've been riding 
> since the late 1990s.  . 
>
> Fork clearance with 700c wheels limited the rubber to 28mm. With 650b 
> Velocity Dyad rims (21 ID, as I recall) I am running RH 38mm Loup Loups 
>  with 50mm fenders. Brakes were traded out for Tektro 559s. It works!  As a 
> reference, the bike has 43cm chain stays and estimated 73 degree ST and HT 
> angles. I've not measured fork offset (I should do that sometime!) but can 
> share that it was built by a local bike shop mechanic who was just getting 
> into frame building to give me a bit more trail than the original one. 
>
> How about the ride?  The diameter of the 650b x 38 tires are just 18mm 
> less than the 700 x 28s,  Though that reduces the trail a bit  my immediate 
> impression was that it's all about the fatter tires, and after logging a 
> few hundred miles on the bike that's still my impression. I've been running 
> the RHs around 40-42 psi, so they're really cush, which I think totally 
> outweighs any reduced trail effect. Recently I  added a front rack which 
> settled the front end down even more. The ride is smth (or, dare I say, 
> "supple"). I do ride it a bit slower than I did with the 700c wheel set but 
> do have to say it increased the fun factor for a bike that after 20 some 
> years I almost parted ways with.  
>
> [image: Sampson.jpg] 
> On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 5:47:26 PM UTC-4 Doug Van Cleve wrote:
>
>> FWIW,
>>
>> Mine is a Joe Starck ‘99 (maybe the earlier Waterfords are different), 
>> but it fits a true 32mm with Campy dual pivots…
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 10:58 AM 'Peter Bridge' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anybody on the list 650'ed one of the old Rivendell Road frames, the 
>>> ones that take short brakes and that max out at 28c tires?  What was the 
>>> outcome?  
>>>
>>> ~pb
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: DT Swiss R460/Campy Chorus/Shimano Freehub/700C

[Dave Grossman]

SOLD PENDING FUNDS

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 8:26:59 AM UTC-5 Dave Grossman wrote:

> Now $225 Net plus Shipping
>
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 9:15:37 AM UTC-5 Dave Grossman wrote:
>
>> DT R460 rims laced to silver Campy Chorus Hubs
>>
>> 32/32
>>
>> 100/130
>>
>> Shimano Freehub
>>
>> $250 net to me + Shipping or local in Chicago.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ryiTchuR7jcjb2UW9
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Taking it to 2

[Bill Lindsay]

So now you've got three rear wheels for this bike.  Do you expect to be 
swapping them in and out frequently with your daily whims?  Or do you think 
one will be the normal?  

Do you attribute the smaller lash on the TF to it's being NOS?  and the 
larger lash on the TC because it is used?
Will you use the TC predominantly and only use the TF when you are going on 
longer climbs?  
Why does the driver conversion on the TC influence the necessary cable 
pull?  
Is your sorted shifter architecture all quick change like you had planned?  
How long does it take?
Is this project complete?  Or are there more stages in the works?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 10:34:21 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> On-topic content: Bike in question is the 1999 Joe Starck fixed gear road 
> custom.
>
> Well, a year after I received the 2-speed fixed TF and TC-hub wheels, I 
> finally got the shifter sorted, or so I thought, and I've ridden both hubs 
> briefly and they're pretty nice! TF gives direct and 75% (52/17 X 24.8" 
> wheel = 76" and 57"), TC gives direct 76" and 86.5% or 66". The TF drop is 
> like shifting from a 52 t ring to a 39 t ring while using the 17 t cog.
>
> The TF has hardly any lash; it feels like a fixed cog and a well-adjusted 
> chain. The TC has much more slop, but less than the annoying S3X, and the 
> direct-to-2nd gap is far, far more useful.
>
> The NOS TF top-tube-mount quadrant shifter pulls a shortish amount of 
> chain and, of course, shifts the TF perfectly. I had hoped it would work as 
> well with the TC, but that hub was modified by having a modern AW 3-spline 
> driver replace the original 12-spline driver for which cogs are very hard 
> to find, all of them 1/8". (I've filed modern 3-spline SA 3/32" cogs to fit 
> the 12-spline TF driver, and I suppose I could re-swap the TC driver, but 
> it's easier to get a new shifter, and I found a NOS SA 3 speed quadrant 
> shifter on British eBay which I hope will arrive this month. The longer 
> pull of the 3 speed shifter ought to allow installation and adjustment to 
> shift the 2-speed TC and perhaps even the TF, since the cable pull from 2nd 
> to 1st is considerably more than that from 3rd to 2nd.
>
> Pictures soon, and more ride reports after I ride them more. But what's to 
> report about 2 speeds???
>
> The TC hub was rechromed nicely by a Seattle shop; the TF is 85-year-old 
> NOS (both hubs are dated 1937), and Aaron at Rat City Bikes did the 
> overhauls.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Paul Mini-Moto Brakeset (Front/Rear) in Silver

[Michael Ullmer]

Bump and a price drop, $210 plus shipping

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 1:29:20 PM UTC-5 Michael Ullmer wrote:

> Bump on these, lots of interest but no follow-throughs.
>
> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:09:01 PM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>
>> Cross-posting from i-bob
>>
>> I picked these up to see if they would fit on my 650b Trek conversion 
>> with 42mm Tires and Fenders, alas they do not. In fine shape. Pads are 
>> used, but have some life left. 
>>
>> $225 plus shipping via Pirateship.
>>
>> Pics here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/xPPzijwyEfLH1FaC6
>>
>> PM off-list,
>>
>> Mike in Minneapolis
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: DT Swiss R460/Campy Chorus/Shimano Freehub/700C

[Dave Grossman]

Now $225 Net plus Shipping

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 9:15:37 AM UTC-5 Dave Grossman wrote:

> DT R460 rims laced to silver Campy Chorus Hubs
>
> 32/32
>
> 100/130
>
> Shimano Freehub
>
> $250 net to me + Shipping or local in Chicago.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ryiTchuR7jcjb2UW9
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Taking it to 2

[lconley]

It is just an aluminum baking sheet, probably from Target.

Laing

On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 5:22:08 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:


Is your work tray magnetic? I should get something like that; can you give 
product maker or link? Thanks.

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 2:33 PM lconley  wrote:

In the meantime - a dis-assembled NOS 1972 40 hole AW and the longest axle 
that I could find. Just a standard 3 speed, not one of Patrick's exotic 
Sturmey-Archers. For the Rosco Baby. Original grease/oil was fairly 
petrified.

What kind of oil do you use in your SAs, Patrick?

[image: IMG_0146.jpg]

Laing



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