[RBW] Re: Roadini on F1 Track ride report

[Anthony Holden]

That sounds like a total blast! I think it speaks well of an event when you 
can see riders of all styles, abilities, and ages coming together to have a 
good time. Love that Roadini. The Safety Pizza and snazzy bar tape 
complement it so well.

On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 1:37:05 PM UTC-7 Mike Packard wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> We have a Formula 1 track in Austin called Circuit of the Americas and on 
> many Tuesdays they have a bike night. Last night was the first one of the 
> season. 
>
> The track is about a 3.36 mile loop with 1 very steep (11%) uphill (and 
> corresponding steep downhill). The pavement is so smooth and free of 
> debris, in certain places it makes a satisfying sticky-grippy sound as the 
> tires roll. There is a bypass for the big hill if one does not want to do 
> it every lap.  
>
> Aside from the novelty of riding on an F1 race track, the really special 
> thing about it is it's just nice to ride somewhere without having a single 
> thought about cars or having to stop for any reason. There's so much space. 
> Everyone can ride at the pace they want. There are some really fun slight 
> descent sections that are a blast to pedal hard and get going really fast 
> under my own power (i.e. not just hill induced). Or just toodle around with 
> your legs outstretched singing out loud.
>
> I brought my 57 Roadini and had a lovely time. This time was neat because 
> my friend brought his 8-year-old twins who'd never been before. I was 
> impressed they did the big downhill (I wouldn't have been brave enough at 
> that age.)
>
> Definitely worth checking out if you're within striking range of Austin, 
> especially before it gets too hot.
>
> Mike 
>
> https://circuitoftheamericas.com/bike-night/
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Otay Valley Regional Park

[Jerry Lynn]

It's a wonderful route - I ride it 2-3 times a week. I love the mountain 
bike park and enjoy the BMX pump track too (a few yards behind the bench in 
your photo). Although the creek has proven challenging lately. Hit me up 
when you next plan a visit there.

On Tuesday 19 March 2024 at 12:08:30 UTC-7 Bill Schairer wrote:

> Beautiful park, beautiful day, beautiful ride!
>
> [image: 38E7757F-F580-4399-8950-27B3EA4882EA_1_105_c.jpeg]
> [image: 7C23013D-2E40-4A8C-96F4-34632153297C_1_105_c.jpeg]
> [image: 35342AC4-7214-4FBD-928E-17A566D0276D_1_105_c.jpeg]
> Bill S
> San Diego
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[John Dewey]

@ http://disraeligears.co.uk/…well I suppose if you pedal around in a
saltwater bath, like some of those unfortunate souls…that might happen.

For those us who ride under sunny skies now and again—and take care of
stuff properly—I can tell you that after years and years of working those
mechs, never a mixed-up shift that wasn’t my doing and not even a
microscopic spot of corrosion to be found anywhere.

Total hooey I say. And I’ve got the goods to prove it 浪

Jock


On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:15 PM Chintan Jadwani 
wrote:

> Another question - from a couple of reviews here people seem indifference
> of the performance between low vs high normal. But online elsewhwre, there
> seems to be strong dislike for low normal - why is that?
>
> For example - disraeligears.co.uk writes for the xt m760
>
> "The Shimano Deore XT (M760) is my absolutely least favourite Deore XT
> variant. It has cheap (rust prone) detailing, unnecessary styling and,
> worst of all, it’s low normal. not your obvious choice for slogging your
> way through the mud and grime of a British winter. Bring back stainless
> steel small parts, polished finishes and top normal operating logic."
>
> On Wed, 20 Mar, 2024, 5:07 am John Dewey,  wrote:
>
>> And the Rivendell ‘fan base’ is a subset of another and another so as to
>> be mostly inconsequential. We do count, however and a few brave souls do
>> sort-of OK serving us.
>>
>> Nevertheless, most of us (even here in RBW’s backyard) seldom cross paths
>> with cyclists with whom we have anything in common other than two wheels.
>> We’re already a bit abnormal and ‘low-normal’ makes us even more so.
>>
>> Jock (and his fleet of abnormal low-normals)
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:41 AM Johnny Alien 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have to think that most of the market for these is from the Rivendell
>>> fan base. I don't hear any other bike group talking about them at all.
>>> Because of that I kind of think IF Riv ends up bringing their new one to
>>> market the used scene will come WAY down. Just a theory. I really hope that
>>> I can test the theory (because they successfully release it)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time
 I am on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the
 cassette I feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur.

 Thanks also for clarifying that any of these will work well.

 The RR will also hypothetically make life a little easier in
 introducing a friend to front and rear shifting- why does the same action
 push the bike to a higher gear in the front and lower gear in the rear (I
 forget too..)

 On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 20:58, Miles Payton  wrote:

> I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few
> months ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off
> offer so I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're
> usually $50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a
> top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's
> where you start spending $200 or more.
> I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed
> shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it 
> wouldn't
> be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a rebuild
> in 20 years. They're pretty well-made.
>
> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote:
>
>> I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60
>> ideally.
>>
>> Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs
>> that one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were 
>> there
>> differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where
>> replacements are available?
>>
>> I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952
>> around that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the
>> prices rise very quickly!
>>
>> Thanks a lot for guiding :)
>> Chintan
>>
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>>> You received this 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Eric Marth]

Just wanted to pop in and say that if you're an eBay whiz and patient you 
can find rapid risers for not too much money. I've found two of the very 
nice Nexave T400s, both new, never used, for less than $30 each. There was 
a seller on eBay sometime in 2023 who listed a bunch of the T400s and 
another model of the Nexave for $25-$30 each, they were all new-old-stock. 

That said the XTR stuff always seems to run on the expensive side, rapid 
rise or otherwise. The LX and XT rapid risers are out there and a little 
cheaper. Another tip: if you can learn to visually ID a low-normal cage 
sometimes you can find derailers that are not listed as rapid rise by the 
seller and snag them for not as much money. 

Definitely agree with Johnny and Bill that Riv riders and readers and board 
members *and* Rivendell employees have been driving demand and therefore 
price. If Rivendell releases their own version and it lands in the $200 
range I don't see that cooling the secondary market. 
On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 10:15:13 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com wrote:

> Another question - from a couple of reviews here people seem indifference 
> of the performance between low vs high normal. But online elsewhwre, there 
> seems to be strong dislike for low normal - why is that? 
>
> For example - disraeligears.co.uk writes for the xt m760
>
> "The Shimano Deore XT (M760) is my absolutely least favourite Deore XT 
> variant. It has cheap (rust prone) detailing, unnecessary styling and, 
> worst of all, it’s low normal. not your obvious choice for slogging your 
> way through the mud and grime of a British winter. Bring back stainless 
> steel small parts, polished finishes and top normal operating logic."
>
> On Wed, 20 Mar, 2024, 5:07 am John Dewey,  wrote:
>
>> And the Rivendell ‘fan base’ is a subset of another and another so as to 
>> be mostly inconsequential. We do count, however and a few brave souls do 
>> sort-of OK serving us. 
>>
>> Nevertheless, most of us (even here in RBW’s backyard) seldom cross paths 
>> with cyclists with whom we have anything in common other than two wheels. 
>> We’re already a bit abnormal and ‘low-normal’ makes us even more so. 
>>
>> Jock (and his fleet of abnormal low-normals)
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:41 AM Johnny Alien  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have to think that most of the market for these is from the Rivendell 
>>> fan base. I don't hear any other bike group talking about them at all. 
>>> Because of that I kind of think IF Riv ends up bringing their new one to 
>>> market the used scene will come WAY down. Just a theory. I really hope that 
>>> I can test the theory (because they successfully release it)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time 
 I am on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the 
 cassette I feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur. 

 Thanks also for clarifying that any of these will work well.

 The RR will also hypothetically make life a little easier in 
 introducing a friend to front and rear shifting- why does the same action 
 push the bike to a higher gear in the front and lower gear in the rear (I 
 forget too..)

 On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 20:58, Miles Payton  wrote:

> I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few 
> months ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off 
> offer so I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're 
> usually $50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a 
> top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's 
> where you start spending $200 or more. 
> I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed 
> shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it 
> wouldn't 
> be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a 
> rebuild 
> in 20 years. They're pretty well-made.
>
> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote:
>
>> I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60 
>> ideally.
>>
>> Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs 
>> that one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were 
>> there 
>> differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where 
>> replacements are available?
>>
>> I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952 
>> around that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the 
>> prices rise very quickly! 
>>
>> Thanks a lot for guiding :)
>> Chintan
>>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Chintan Jadwani]

Another question - from a couple of reviews here people seem indifference
of the performance between low vs high normal. But online elsewhwre, there
seems to be strong dislike for low normal - why is that?

For example - disraeligears.co.uk writes for the xt m760

"The Shimano Deore XT (M760) is my absolutely least favourite Deore XT
variant. It has cheap (rust prone) detailing, unnecessary styling and,
worst of all, it’s low normal. not your obvious choice for slogging your
way through the mud and grime of a British winter. Bring back stainless
steel small parts, polished finishes and top normal operating logic."

On Wed, 20 Mar, 2024, 5:07 am John Dewey,  wrote:

> And the Rivendell ‘fan base’ is a subset of another and another so as to
> be mostly inconsequential. We do count, however and a few brave souls do
> sort-of OK serving us.
>
> Nevertheless, most of us (even here in RBW’s backyard) seldom cross paths
> with cyclists with whom we have anything in common other than two wheels.
> We’re already a bit abnormal and ‘low-normal’ makes us even more so.
>
> Jock (and his fleet of abnormal low-normals)
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:41 AM Johnny Alien 
> wrote:
>
>> I have to think that most of the market for these is from the Rivendell
>> fan base. I don't hear any other bike group talking about them at all.
>> Because of that I kind of think IF Riv ends up bringing their new one to
>> market the used scene will come WAY down. Just a theory. I really hope that
>> I can test the theory (because they successfully release it)
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time I
>>> am on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the cassette
>>> I feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur.
>>>
>>> Thanks also for clarifying that any of these will work well.
>>>
>>> The RR will also hypothetically make life a little easier in introducing
>>> a friend to front and rear shifting- why does the same action push the bike
>>> to a higher gear in the front and lower gear in the rear (I forget too..)
>>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 20:58, Miles Payton  wrote:
>>>
 I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few
 months ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off
 offer so I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're
 usually $50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a
 top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's
 where you start spending $200 or more.
 I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed
 shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it wouldn't
 be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a rebuild
 in 20 years. They're pretty well-made.

 On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote:

> I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60
> ideally.
>
> Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs
> that one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were there
> differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where
> replacements are available?
>
> I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952
> around that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the
> prices rise very quickly!
>
> Thanks a lot for guiding :)
> Chintan
>
 --
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 .

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[RBW] Re: I have questions

[Johnny Alien]

Depends on the tires too. An overbuilt robust 42 will feel slower than a 
fairly supple 48. So if you are comparing a 48 to a 42 rene Herse tire it 
might feel a bit slower. I like GK and I think they roll pretty smooth. I 
can't remember if they have different "toughness" levels. I think you will 
be happy with them. I would personally for sure use those tires for that 
application.
On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 9:58:14 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:

> Those are really nice looking wheels and I, and I'm sure everyone, looks 
> forward to seeing the final build.
>
> I was going to comment briefly about tires, though I've only got a handful 
> of years on large volume tires on the road (before I was strictly a roadie, 
> with 25mm's).  I don't feel a big difference going from 25 to 30, I do feel 
> a difference going up to a 43 (GKSS).  What's interesting is I don't feel a 
> huge difference going from 43 to 55.  In the last few weeks alone I've had 
> a chance to ride all the bikes and wheels/tires I have, and this was my 
> observation about tires as I was thinking about this during and after the 
> rides.  "Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace?"  If you can do 
> this on a 42, comfortably, I think you can do so on a 48 (maybe play with 
> the pressure a bit, to get what works best for speed/comfort balance).  I 
> used the 43's on a ride with my speedy friend a month ago and I kept up, 
> felt pretty comfortable (particularly on descents), but I had to work 
> harder...so I would also recommend a good fuelling strategy for your 2-day 
> event.  Good luck!
>
> Weather :-( I'm just outside Toronto and we're getting second (first?) 
> winter here since Saturday.  I know how you feel.  And the forecast doesn't 
> look great for next 1-2 weeks.  I'm getting out on the 55 tires more, 
> pumping them based on conditions and appreciating I have them and these 
> wider tire bikes, or I would be stuck on the trainer with a road bike 
> (yuck).
>
> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 9:10:14 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I have had some of the same questions tumbling about in my brain as I 
>> wait for the last of the parts for my Gravel & Travel Platy. I just got 
>> back from a warm and delightful weekend of cycling in Philadelphia. I, a 
>> newly minted Michigander, was happy to return to the shire, and for that, I 
>> was welcomed with Second Winter. 
>>
>> Michigan is over here, doing me dirty. 
>>
>> I’m prevailing upon you to humor me and answer my questions, because a 
>> lot of you are having spring and flowers and sunshine, so this is the least 
>> you could do!
>>
>> I got the 50 cm Platy to take on trips. Will fit in the van better, will 
>> fit on Amtrak, be easier to shove in elevators, that sort of thing. But the 
>> tires I have on hand are 48 mm Gravel Kings. They are almost new. I’m 
>> considering taking a train to a ride this summer, but that means no Racing 
>> Platypus, only the purple one can fit. Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road 
>> ride pace? I have 42 on all my other bikes. Would 48s be slow? The ride is 
>> a 2 day event, 100 miles total. I’d like to keep the tires if I could, 
>> because they’re new and they are fat enough to also double as gravel tires, 
>> should I decide to do a gravel ride again. But I do more road rides than 
>> anything else, and if those 48s will cripple me, I’ll go back to 42s. 
>> What’s the consensus?
>>
>> Basket straps. I have the Nitto Basket Rack and even though I’ve disliked 
>> it in the past, I figure it’s pretty and I already own it and I might need 
>> a front rack for travel. But do I really have to put the ugly strap from 
>> bar to basket? Is the Nitto Basket Rack safer than the Mark’s Rack? I know 
>> Sergio was thrown when his Mark’s Rack loosened and hit the front tire and 
>> he’s missing significant chunks of front teeth! What is everyone doing 
>> about their front racks?
>>
>> Lights. I have an Edelux light. It’s not the right color for this build, 
>> but it’s perfectly good. But sometimes I think, “wouldn’t it be nice to 
>> have a light that would charge your phone?” The Sinewave Beacon 2 will do 
>> just that, but it sounds like it’s not a great road light. What are people 
>> using to charge phones on long rides away from home?
>>
>> I ordered my wheels today. This, because J at the Velocity booth in 
>> Philly talked me into them when he heard about the theme of my build. 
>> Here’s a sneak peek.
>>
>> And thanks for helping me out here! It’s good to hear people’s 
>> experiences and points of view!
>> Leah
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: I have questions

[Jay]

Those are really nice looking wheels and I, and I'm sure everyone, looks 
forward to seeing the final build.

I was going to comment briefly about tires, though I've only got a handful 
of years on large volume tires on the road (before I was strictly a roadie, 
with 25mm's).  I don't feel a big difference going from 25 to 30, I do feel 
a difference going up to a 43 (GKSS).  What's interesting is I don't feel a 
huge difference going from 43 to 55.  In the last few weeks alone I've had 
a chance to ride all the bikes and wheels/tires I have, and this was my 
observation about tires as I was thinking about this during and after the 
rides.  "Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace?"  If you can do 
this on a 42, comfortably, I think you can do so on a 48 (maybe play with 
the pressure a bit, to get what works best for speed/comfort balance).  I 
used the 43's on a ride with my speedy friend a month ago and I kept up, 
felt pretty comfortable (particularly on descents), but I had to work 
harder...so I would also recommend a good fuelling strategy for your 2-day 
event.  Good luck!

Weather :-( I'm just outside Toronto and we're getting second (first?) 
winter here since Saturday.  I know how you feel.  And the forecast doesn't 
look great for next 1-2 weeks.  I'm getting out on the 55 tires more, 
pumping them based on conditions and appreciating I have them and these 
wider tire bikes, or I would be stuck on the trainer with a road bike 
(yuck).

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 9:10:14 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I have had some of the same questions tumbling about in my brain as I wait 
> for the last of the parts for my Gravel & Travel Platy. I just got back 
> from a warm and delightful weekend of cycling in Philadelphia. I, a newly 
> minted Michigander, was happy to return to the shire, and for that, I was 
> welcomed with Second Winter. 
>
> Michigan is over here, doing me dirty. 
>
> I’m prevailing upon you to humor me and answer my questions, because a lot 
> of you are having spring and flowers and sunshine, so this is the least you 
> could do!
>
> I got the 50 cm Platy to take on trips. Will fit in the van better, will 
> fit on Amtrak, be easier to shove in elevators, that sort of thing. But the 
> tires I have on hand are 48 mm Gravel Kings. They are almost new. I’m 
> considering taking a train to a ride this summer, but that means no Racing 
> Platypus, only the purple one can fit. Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road 
> ride pace? I have 42 on all my other bikes. Would 48s be slow? The ride is 
> a 2 day event, 100 miles total. I’d like to keep the tires if I could, 
> because they’re new and they are fat enough to also double as gravel tires, 
> should I decide to do a gravel ride again. But I do more road rides than 
> anything else, and if those 48s will cripple me, I’ll go back to 42s. 
> What’s the consensus?
>
> Basket straps. I have the Nitto Basket Rack and even though I’ve disliked 
> it in the past, I figure it’s pretty and I already own it and I might need 
> a front rack for travel. But do I really have to put the ugly strap from 
> bar to basket? Is the Nitto Basket Rack safer than the Mark’s Rack? I know 
> Sergio was thrown when his Mark’s Rack loosened and hit the front tire and 
> he’s missing significant chunks of front teeth! What is everyone doing 
> about their front racks?
>
> Lights. I have an Edelux light. It’s not the right color for this build, 
> but it’s perfectly good. But sometimes I think, “wouldn’t it be nice to 
> have a light that would charge your phone?” The Sinewave Beacon 2 will do 
> just that, but it sounds like it’s not a great road light. What are people 
> using to charge phones on long rides away from home?
>
> I ordered my wheels today. This, because J at the Velocity booth in Philly 
> talked me into them when he heard about the theme of my build. Here’s a 
> sneak peek.
>
> And thanks for helping me out here! It’s good to hear people’s experiences 
> and points of view!
> Leah
>
>
>

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[RBW] Friend in SF Bay Area Selling Roadini

[Stephen]

Hey all,

My friend in the east bay is selling a nice older blue roadini (medium 
reach brake version). 

Heres the craigslist listing:
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/emeryville-rivendell-leo-roadini/7720529232.html

He's had it up for a little bit so I'm helping out posting here to get him 
a little more visibility.

To note: 
he is not interested in parting it out.
Strongly prefers local sale

thanks for looking

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[John Dewey]

And the Rivendell ‘fan base’ is a subset of another and another so as to be
mostly inconsequential. We do count, however and a few brave souls do
sort-of OK serving us.

Nevertheless, most of us (even here in RBW’s backyard) seldom cross paths
with cyclists with whom we have anything in common other than two wheels.
We’re already a bit abnormal and ‘low-normal’ makes us even more so.

Jock (and his fleet of abnormal low-normals)

On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:41 AM Johnny Alien 
wrote:

> I have to think that most of the market for these is from the Rivendell
> fan base. I don't hear any other bike group talking about them at all.
> Because of that I kind of think IF Riv ends up bringing their new one to
> market the used scene will come WAY down. Just a theory. I really hope that
> I can test the theory (because they successfully release it)
>
> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time I
>> am on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the cassette
>> I feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur.
>>
>> Thanks also for clarifying that any of these will work well.
>>
>> The RR will also hypothetically make life a little easier in introducing
>> a friend to front and rear shifting- why does the same action push the bike
>> to a higher gear in the front and lower gear in the rear (I forget too..)
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 20:58, Miles Payton  wrote:
>>
>>> I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few
>>> months ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off
>>> offer so I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're
>>> usually $50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a
>>> top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's
>>> where you start spending $200 or more.
>>> I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed
>>> shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it wouldn't
>>> be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a rebuild
>>> in 20 years. They're pretty well-made.
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote:
>>>
 I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60
 ideally.

 Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs
 that one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were there
 differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where
 replacements are available?

 I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952
 around that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the
 prices rise very quickly!

 Thanks a lot for guiding :)
 Chintan

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Bill Lindsay]

" that Libertas that (yes, Bill) I have plans to build"

blah blah blah.  I'll believe it when I see it.  

BL in EC
On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 1:56:11 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Ah, I mispoke; Huret indeed.
>
> Peter knows much more about such pre-Campy parallelogram derailleur 
> esoterica, and I for one am glad I haven't had to get such a rd to work 
> since my 2-speed SA days, but I recall an old-timer on the CR list saying 
> that they worked pretty well if they were properly set up, but that setup 
> was very hard to do right. 
>
> Peter, insofar as "low-normal" is the thread here and pullchain rds are 
> low-normal, have you set one of these up, and can we see photos? Maybe it 
> will give Grant some ideas.
>
> It has been years since I read Dancing Chain; was he really so dismissive? 
> I don't recall, but I'll have to borrow the book back from my brother.
>
> Also recall someone -- CR lister? -- describing how in the late '40s and 
> '50s in Australia race gearing was sparse (4 or 5 speeds), low (49 t sing 
> ring, 14-20 4-speed), and cadences high; and, shifted with pull chain rds, 
> the drivetrain often sounded like a coffee grinder -- I guess because it 
> was hard to adjust these things well. 
>
> I'm tempted to hunt one down and install it on that Libertas that (yes, 
> Bill) I have plans to build up as a outside-lockable errand bike that is 
> fun to ride. With wingnuts.
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 11:57 AM Peter Adler  wrote:
>
>> And another nitpicky point: The two-lever derailleur is connected not to 
>> a Simplex pullchain derailleur, but to the mid-50s fancy-bikeshorts 
>> pullchain derailleur from their rival, Huret: the Huret Louison Bobet, so 
>> named for the three-time Tour de France winner (1953-55) whose Stella team 
>> rode with that derailleur. Simplex had a competing design - the Juy 543 
>> named for the company president/designer Lucien Juy and the fact that the 
>> derailleur could be set with a slide mechanism to work with 3-speed, 
>> 4-speed and 5-speed freewheels, at a time when all were current in the 
>> marketplace.
>>
>> Like the Huret Louison Bobet, the Simplex Juy 543 had two cables. But 
>> instead of having a separate control lever for chain tension adjustment, 
>> the Simplex mechanism had a junction block which was clamped along the 
>> shift cable between the bottom bracket and the chainstay cable stop. The 
>> main pulley adjustment cable ran full from shift lever to derailleur, while 
>> a second cable stub was clamped to the first cable. The two adjustments 
>> this worked in parallel, which the chain tension automatically 
>> tightened/loosened as one shifted between bigger/smaller cogs.
>>
>> The Simplex was an early example of black-boxing tech; the pullchain and 
>> slide mechanism were concealed from view (and from road scuzz, which I'm 
>> sure was Simplex's excuse) with a chrome cover plate. It's a sleeker, more 
>> modern-looking derailleur than most pullchain models.
>>
>> All this engineering chozzerai must have been expensive to design and 
>> manufacture, and the price obviously discouraged mass appeal. My hunch is 
>> that the 1950s fixation on chain friction must also have been revealed to 
>> be silly. By the end of the decade, as Campagnolo was driving all the 
>> pullchain companies into irrelevancy in the racer market with a durable 
>> rear derailleur that as Frank Berto said, "didn't shift very well, but it 
>> would do it forever", and that didn't cater to the friction fixation at 
>> all. The ne plus ultra of Simplex's high-end pullchain derailleurs was the 
>> Juy 60, cosmetically a clone of the earlier 543 with the chrome cover 
>> plate, but with no freewheel selector (5-speed was assumed) and with no 
>> tension adjustment. After 1960, Simplex accepted that they'd lost the 
>> design war against Campagnolo's parallelogram derailleurs by building the 
>> excellent and beautiful Juy 61 Export (a design that clearly drove the 
>> designers at Suntour), and the technically similar/cosmetically uglier Raid 
>> 35, before going down the drain building derailleurs out of plastic.
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Frank Berto's discussion of the history of the companies in the 1950s in 
>> The Dancing Chain is, IMHO, far better than his discussion of the 
>> derailleurs themselves. Hs take on all the 50s derailleurs other than 
>> Campy's Gran Sport is mostly to call the design stupid, which they sort of 
>> are. They're fiddly to get working; placing the pulley cage under the big 
>> cog is a real balancing act, because the placement is done by adjusting the 
>> tension on that coil spring inside the ribbon spring, which I only 
>> discovered a few days ago by accident.
>>
>> Berto's big objection is mostly to Simplex, who put the dual-spring cage 
>> in/cage  out mechanism at the centerpoint of the pulley cage. Many of 
>> Huret's derailleurs put it close to the end, which means that one could 
>> route the chain like a modern 

[RBW] Re: Abomination? Riv Road "upgrades"

[Jay]

I looked up those BTLOS wheels, very affordable and generally good reviews.

My road bike has Dura-Ace C24, which I believe are just over 1400g.  When I 
start more road rides in the spring I'm going to try out the Roadini, in 
rides with my faster friend, and see how I do in comparison to my road 
bike.  One day, I may use this wheelset on the Roadini and that may tip the 
scales to this being my road bike with this wheelset, and the main wheelset 
with 43mm's being the all-road bike.

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 11:48:07 AM UTC-4 bfd...@gmail.com wrote:

> I think carbon wheels have come a long way!  I recently bought a set of 
> BTLOS carbon rim brake wheels and love them! They hold up to my 200lb 
> weight, are aero (45mm deep rims), and super light (the wheelset came with 
> a listed weight of 1305g - 729g rear and 576g front)! That's tubular wheel 
> weight! The weight was a surprise as the estimate they gave when I finished 
> selecting the parts was 1325 +/- 25g, so I was expecting 1350g! 
>
> Still the wheels have been fantastic and with Reynolds blue carbon pads, I 
> find the braking to be excellent, although I haven't ridden them in the 
> wet. There's little to no flex and they seem to hold up to everything I put 
> them through as I do occasional rides on gravely roads. 
>
> I'm now thinking maybe I should get a set for my Della Santa, which has 
> standard 32h Mavic Open Pro rims and Campy Record hubs...lol 
>
> Of course, YMMV! 
>
> Good Luck! 
>
> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 7:57:32 AM UTC-7 josh.yo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Do whatever makes you happy! I have carbon bits on my Homer so we can be 
>> abominations together.
>>
>> Josh
>> Seattle, WA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ride Reports - Where You Defied the Weather

[Jay]

I agree - thanks for sharing John.  Japan is on my bucket list (for a trip 
in general, cycling as part of the trip would be a bonus).

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 1:55:47 PM UTC-4 Keith P. wrote:

> What a rad adventure.
> Thanks for posting a link to the rest of the ride write-up.
> k.
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2024 at 8:36 PM John Rinker  wrote:
>
>> Short Version: While technically not riding at the time, I was on a ride 
>> circumnavigating Yakushima Island when I was flooded out of my tent and 
>> forced to setup camp for 16 hours in an accessible toilet in Japan.
>>
>> PENCIL-
>>
>> Longer Read: Yakushima, an island off the southern tip of Kyushu in Japan 
>> is home to the oldest cedar (sugi) trees on the planet and it boasts the 
>> highest annual rainfall in Japan, between 4 and 10 meters per year. That's 
>> right, meters!
>>
>> In the Spring of 2021 I went back to Yakushima for a second ride around 
>> the island 
>> . 
>> For several weeks before the trip I began to watch the weather. According 
>> the the Japanese weather reports, which are the most reliable I've ever 
>> used, a big rain was coming during my second night there. 
>>
>> So, I began to plan for this. After I get off the ferry and visit 
>> Shiratani Gorge where some of the oldest cedars on the island reside on 
>> steep slopes, I would head for Anbo. From my last visit, I remembered a 
>> beautiful public park high above the town. Camping in public parks is 
>> permitted- well, not frowned upon- and in Japan such parks are replete with 
>> amenities like 'The World's Cleanest Public Restrooms'. This would be where 
>> I'd weather the predicted 12-15cm of rain. 
>>
>> Fast forward several weeks and I'm riding into the park I remembered. 
>> What made it most memorable is a world-class 400m running track. On a 
>> remote island! In a town of about 8000 people! I find a spot on the lawn 
>> among the blossoming cherry trees(sakura), and there's a small gazebo. My 
>> tent is on the lawn and ready for rain, but if things go sideways I'll duck 
>> into the gazebo.
>>
>> Right on time, a light rain begins while I cook dinner and the sun goes 
>> down. I eat then walk around in the drizzle to enjoy the sakura at 
>> twilight. As the rain picks up its pace, I tuck my bike and gear in the 
>> gazebo and zip myself into my cozy tent. The rain dances on the taut nylon 
>> and soon I'm asleep.
>>
>> In the dream my tent is flowing down hill towards a small cluster of 
>> houses. When the tent comes to a stop, I unzip the fly and a couple of old 
>> friends are there looking over a map. As I greet them I feel as though I'm 
>> on a waterbed. Suddenly, I'm awake in darkness and pelting rain. My old 
>> friends are gone as is the cluster of houses. But I still feel like I'm on 
>> a waterbed. I reach both arms beyond my pad and feel the tent's waterproof 
>> floor. The coated fabric ripples. Now I'm fully awake sloshing about the 
>> waterbed, deflating the air mattress and stuffing clothes and sleeping bag 
>> into a nylon sack before the water seeps through the floor.
>>
>> I unzip the tent and dash through the torrent for the gazebo with all my 
>> gear. The gazebo is sturdy but old and the roof has not been looked after.  
>> As much rain falls on my bike and me as on the tent. Eariler, I scoped out 
>> the bathroom about 600m away (Plan C), and now stuffed everything in my 
>> Wald, hopped on the bike and pedalled (paddled?) through a 5cm of pond that 
>> stretched from the gazebo to the restroom on the other side of the running 
>> track. I'd come back for my tent in daylight.
>>
>> The toilets offered a men's and a women's rooms. In between was a larger 
>> room for wheelchair access. Certainly this was the least used of the rooms, 
>> so I'd sleep here. I slid back the door to reveal, even in the dark, a 
>> gleaming facility (much cleaner I'm certain than most hotel rooms in North 
>> America.) And dry! I filled my Thermarest, rolled out my sleeping bag and 
>> drifted off feeling pretty pleased with myself for having a Plan C. 
>>
>> The next morning the rain had intensified. I ate breakfast and sipped 
>> coffee while I awaited a break in the rain so I could retrieve my tent. The 
>> break didn't really come until about 4pm that afternoon. So, I hung out, 
>> read, cooked, drank tea and enjoyed the variety of small creatures who also 
>> found the wonderful restrooms to be a good Plan C. By 5pm, my sodden tent 
>> and I were underway riding along the coast as the receding cumulonimbus 
>> captured the pinks and oranges of the glorious sunset. 
>>
>> As a final note, Yakushima is also quite well known for its cascading 
>> waterfalls, and each was positively swollen as I rode from one to the next. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_8194.jpeg]
>> Cheers, John
>> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 5:19:17 PM UTC-7 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> I liked your video John - thanks for 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Patrick Moore]

Ah, I mispoke; Huret indeed.

Peter knows much more about such pre-Campy parallelogram derailleur
esoterica, and I for one am glad I haven't had to get such a rd to work
since my 2-speed SA days, but I recall an old-timer on the CR list saying
that they worked pretty well if they were properly set up, but that setup
was very hard to do right.

Peter, insofar as "low-normal" is the thread here and pullchain rds are
low-normal, have you set one of these up, and can we see photos? Maybe it
will give Grant some ideas.

It has been years since I read Dancing Chain; was he really so dismissive?
I don't recall, but I'll have to borrow the book back from my brother.

Also recall someone -- CR lister? -- describing how in the late '40s and
'50s in Australia race gearing was sparse (4 or 5 speeds), low (49 t sing
ring, 14-20 4-speed), and cadences high; and, shifted with pull chain rds,
the drivetrain often sounded like a coffee grinder -- I guess because it
was hard to adjust these things well.

I'm tempted to hunt one down and install it on that Libertas that (yes,
Bill) I have plans to build up as a outside-lockable errand bike that is
fun to ride. With wingnuts.

On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 11:57 AM Peter Adler  wrote:

> And another nitpicky point: The two-lever derailleur is connected not to a
> Simplex pullchain derailleur, but to the mid-50s fancy-bikeshorts pullchain
> derailleur from their rival, Huret: the Huret Louison Bobet, so named for
> the three-time Tour de France winner (1953-55) whose Stella team rode with
> that derailleur. Simplex had a competing design - the Juy 543 named for the
> company president/designer Lucien Juy and the fact that the derailleur
> could be set with a slide mechanism to work with 3-speed, 4-speed and
> 5-speed freewheels, at a time when all were current in the marketplace.
>
> Like the Huret Louison Bobet, the Simplex Juy 543 had two cables. But
> instead of having a separate control lever for chain tension adjustment,
> the Simplex mechanism had a junction block which was clamped along the
> shift cable between the bottom bracket and the chainstay cable stop. The
> main pulley adjustment cable ran full from shift lever to derailleur, while
> a second cable stub was clamped to the first cable. The two adjustments
> this worked in parallel, which the chain tension automatically
> tightened/loosened as one shifted between bigger/smaller cogs.
>
> The Simplex was an early example of black-boxing tech; the pullchain and
> slide mechanism were concealed from view (and from road scuzz, which I'm
> sure was Simplex's excuse) with a chrome cover plate. It's a sleeker, more
> modern-looking derailleur than most pullchain models.
>
> All this engineering chozzerai must have been expensive to design and
> manufacture, and the price obviously discouraged mass appeal. My hunch is
> that the 1950s fixation on chain friction must also have been revealed to
> be silly. By the end of the decade, as Campagnolo was driving all the
> pullchain companies into irrelevancy in the racer market with a durable
> rear derailleur that as Frank Berto said, "didn't shift very well, but it
> would do it forever", and that didn't cater to the friction fixation at
> all. The ne plus ultra of Simplex's high-end pullchain derailleurs was the
> Juy 60, cosmetically a clone of the earlier 543 with the chrome cover
> plate, but with no freewheel selector (5-speed was assumed) and with no
> tension adjustment. After 1960, Simplex accepted that they'd lost the
> design war against Campagnolo's parallelogram derailleurs by building the
> excellent and beautiful Juy 61 Export (a design that clearly drove the
> designers at Suntour), and the technically similar/cosmetically uglier Raid
> 35, before going down the drain building derailleurs out of plastic.
>
> ===
>
> Frank Berto's discussion of the history of the companies in the 1950s in
> The Dancing Chain is, IMHO, far better than his discussion of the
> derailleurs themselves. Hs take on all the 50s derailleurs other than
> Campy's Gran Sport is mostly to call the design stupid, which they sort of
> are. They're fiddly to get working; placing the pulley cage under the big
> cog is a real balancing act, because the placement is done by adjusting the
> tension on that coil spring inside the ribbon spring, which I only
> discovered a few days ago by accident.
>
> Berto's big objection is mostly to Simplex, who put the dual-spring cage
> in/cage  out mechanism at the centerpoint of the pulley cage. Many of
> Huret's derailleurs put it close to the end, which means that one could
> route the chain like a modern derailleur for more chainwrap, with the
> pulley cage near the spring and the tension cage below. The Simplex ones
> work pretty much the same regardless of which way the cage is oriented,
> with no additional takeup. Berto's belief is/was that Simplex had made a
> nice livelihood for themselves making single-pulley derailleurs, and didn't
> want to 

Re: [RBW] Re: FS - Spring Cleaning - Nitto, Crust, Tektro, Etc.

[Eric M Cardella]

Thanks JC. Look forward to hearing about the Fleecer Ridge info. Zip code again is 97330.EricOn Mar 19, 2024, at 1:08 PM, J C  wrote:UPDATING THE LIST WITH WHATS BEEN CLAIMED See Highlighted Below** I should have shipping details available tonight for those who I have spoken with, apologies for the delay **Thanks!JCNew or Like New StuffNitto Noodle 52cm: $100Nitto RM-013 Dirt Drop: $75Nitto Wavie 660: $100Crust Ron's Bar: $100Salsa Cowchipper: $50Tektro CR720: $50Tektro 559 (nutted version): $40Dia Compe Long Reach (nutted): $40Avid BB7 MTN: $50Crust Hand Sanitizer Levers: $30Brooks C17 Cambium: $80Shimano Claris FD: $25Used StuffSoma Cazaderos 700x50: $50/pairRene Herse Fleecer Ridge 700x55: $60/New, $40/3 months useSuntour Levers: $20On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 12:21:34 PM UTC-7 J Imler wrote:PM sent on Dia Compe Long Reach.On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 4:51:46 PM UTC-7 J C wrote:Greetings all,In making room for a new Roadeo, i've been doing some spring cleaning and decided it was time to get rid of some things i've had for way too long.Most items are new or like new condition. Prices do not include shipping, feel free to make reasonable offers.Photos here:https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1t_CxLajkB-9nPWjkQ5EDMNxfJijb-PES?usp=sharingNew or Like New StuffNitto Noodle 52cm: $100Nitto RM-013 Dirt Drop: $75Nitto Wavie 660: $100Crust Ron's Bar: $100Salsa Cowchipper: $50Tektro CR720: $50Tektro 559 (nutted version): $40Dia Compe Long Reach (nutted): $40Avid BB7 MTN: $50Crust Hand Sanitizer Levers: $30Brooks C17 Cambium: $80Shimano Claris FD: $25Used StuffSoma Cazaderos 700x50: $50/pairRene Herse Fleecer Ridge 700x55: $60/New, $40/3 months useSuntour Levers: $20Thanks,JC in Southern California



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[RBW] Re: FS - Spring Cleaning - Nitto, Crust, Tektro, Etc.

[J C]

*UPDATING THE LIST WITH WHATS BEEN CLAIMED See Highlighted Below*

*** I should have shipping details available tonight for those who I have 
spoken with, apologies for the delay ***

Thanks!

JC

*New or Like New Stuff*

Nitto Noodle 52cm: $100
Nitto RM-013 Dirt Drop: $75
Nitto Wavie 660: $100
Crust Ron's Bar: $100
Salsa Cowchipper: $50
Tektro CR720: $50
Tektro 559 (nutted version): $40
Dia Compe Long Reach (nutted): $40
Avid BB7 MTN: $50
Crust Hand Sanitizer Levers: $30
Brooks C17 Cambium: $80
Shimano Claris FD: $25

*Used Stuff*
Soma Cazaderos 700x50: $50/pair
Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge 700x55: $60/New, $40/3 months use
Suntour Levers: $20



On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 12:21:34 PM UTC-7 J Imler wrote:

> PM sent on Dia Compe Long Reach.
>
> On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 4:51:46 PM UTC-7 J C wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> In making room for a new Roadeo, i've been doing some spring cleaning and 
>> decided it was time to get rid of some things i've had for way too long.
>>
>> Most items are new or like new condition. 
>>
>> Prices do not include shipping, feel free to make reasonable offers.
>>
>> *Photos here:*
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1t_CxLajkB-9nPWjkQ5EDMNxfJijb-PES?usp=sharing
>>
>> *New or Like New Stuff*
>>
>> Nitto Noodle 52cm: $100
>> Nitto RM-013 Dirt Drop: $75
>> Nitto Wavie 660: $100
>> Crust Ron's Bar: $100
>> Salsa Cowchipper: $50
>> Tektro CR720: $50
>> Tektro 559 (nutted version): $40
>> Dia Compe Long Reach (nutted): $40
>> Avid BB7 MTN: $50
>> Crust Hand Sanitizer Levers: $30
>> Brooks C17 Cambium: $80
>> Shimano Claris FD: $25
>>
>> *Used Stuff*
>> Soma Cazaderos 700x50: $50/pair
>> Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge 700x55: $60/New, $40/3 months use
>> Suntour Levers: $20
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> JC in Southern California
>>
>

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[RBW] Philadelphia Bike Expo March 16 - 17

[st nick]

Thanks to everyone sharing the Bike Expo info and pictures.
It looks like a remarkably great time was had by all.
I would love to attend one year.
At one point a few years back a Custom bike show was planned for Dallas, TX but 
that was when all the  C_vid stuff was going on and it was cancelled.
Paul in Dallasalso liam_box on instagram.

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[RBW] Re: Spring Cleaning: Swift Bags, Sim Works Rack, Brooks, Wolf tooth

[Drew Fitchette]

Hardly used Black Swift Zeitgeist Bag - *SOLD*

Hardly used Black Swift Holdfast Frame Bag Lg - *$80*

Brooks Flyer *Special* Saddle in Honey - *$100*

Pair of Soma Cazaderos 650B less than 100 miles  -* $90 *

Wolf Tooth 10mm spacers Silver (5 pack) - *$15 *

Simworks Obento Rack - *$160*

Buyers cover shipping! 

On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 3:05:19 PM UTC-4 Drew Fitchette wrote:

> Hey All, 
>
> Cleaning out some of my stock/parts bin and have the following available:
>
> Hardly used Black Swift Zeitgeist Bag - $135
>
> Hardly used Black Swift Holdfast Frame Bag Lg - $80
>
> Brooks Flyer Saddle in Honey - $100
>
> Pair of Soma Cazaderos 650B less than 100 miles  - $90 
>
> Wolf Tooth 10mm spacers Silver (5 pack) - $15 
>
> Simworks Obento Rack - $160
>
> Buyers cover shipping! 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Peter Adler]

And another nitpicky point: The two-lever derailleur is connected not to a 
Simplex pullchain derailleur, but to the mid-50s fancy-bikeshorts pullchain 
derailleur from their rival, Huret: the Huret Louison Bobet, so named for 
the three-time Tour de France winner (1953-55) whose Stella team rode with 
that derailleur. Simplex had a competing design - the Juy 543 named for the 
company president/designer Lucien Juy and the fact that the derailleur 
could be set with a slide mechanism to work with 3-speed, 4-speed and 
5-speed freewheels, at a time when all were current in the marketplace.

Like the Huret Louison Bobet, the Simplex Juy 543 had two cables. But 
instead of having a separate control lever for chain tension adjustment, 
the Simplex mechanism had a junction block which was clamped along the 
shift cable between the bottom bracket and the chainstay cable stop. The 
main pulley adjustment cable ran full from shift lever to derailleur, while 
a second cable stub was clamped to the first cable. The two adjustments 
this worked in parallel, which the chain tension automatically 
tightened/loosened as one shifted between bigger/smaller cogs.

The Simplex was an early example of black-boxing tech; the pullchain and 
slide mechanism were concealed from view (and from road scuzz, which I'm 
sure was Simplex's excuse) with a chrome cover plate. It's a sleeker, more 
modern-looking derailleur than most pullchain models.

All this engineering chozzerai must have been expensive to design and 
manufacture, and the price obviously discouraged mass appeal. My hunch is 
that the 1950s fixation on chain friction must also have been revealed to 
be silly. By the end of the decade, as Campagnolo was driving all the 
pullchain companies into irrelevancy in the racer market with a durable 
rear derailleur that as Frank Berto said, "didn't shift very well, but it 
would do it forever", and that didn't cater to the friction fixation at 
all. The ne plus ultra of Simplex's high-end pullchain derailleurs was the 
Juy 60, cosmetically a clone of the earlier 543 with the chrome cover 
plate, but with no freewheel selector (5-speed was assumed) and with no 
tension adjustment. After 1960, Simplex accepted that they'd lost the 
design war against Campagnolo's parallelogram derailleurs by building the 
excellent and beautiful Juy 61 Export (a design that clearly drove the 
designers at Suntour), and the technically similar/cosmetically uglier Raid 
35, before going down the drain building derailleurs out of plastic.

===

Frank Berto's discussion of the history of the companies in the 1950s in 
The Dancing Chain is, IMHO, far better than his discussion of the 
derailleurs themselves. Hs take on all the 50s derailleurs other than 
Campy's Gran Sport is mostly to call the design stupid, which they sort of 
are. They're fiddly to get working; placing the pulley cage under the big 
cog is a real balancing act, because the placement is done by adjusting the 
tension on that coil spring inside the ribbon spring, which I only 
discovered a few days ago by accident.

Berto's big objection is mostly to Simplex, who put the dual-spring cage 
in/cage  out mechanism at the centerpoint of the pulley cage. Many of 
Huret's derailleurs put it close to the end, which means that one could 
route the chain like a modern derailleur for more chainwrap, with the 
pulley cage near the spring and the tension cage below. The Simplex ones 
work pretty much the same regardless of which way the cage is oriented, 
with no additional takeup. Berto's belief is/was that Simplex had made a 
nice livelihood for themselves making single-pulley derailleurs, and didn't 
want to alienate their racing customers by making derailleurs that worked 
wildly differently. So they made single-pulley derailleurs with two pulleys.

Unfortunately for the hobbyist, Berto's contempt for the design means that 
he doesn't speak at all about making them work. 60+ years after they 
vanished from the marketplace, it's almost impossible to find any 
documentation on configuration, other than the original instructions 
included in the packages written in midcentury flowery French or English 
that's hard for most people (well, for me at least) to translate to 
instructions I can use. Most of the technicians who learned how to do it 
the official way BITD are now dead. Those of us who get them sorta-working 
mostly do so through dumb luck; my addition of a couple of extra links 
beyond the Shimano big-big +1 parallelogram measurement suddenly gained me 
the ability to reach 7 out of 10 gears, where I had only been able to do a 
single speed beforehand. A datapoint for the the tricks file.

Peter "wall of text!" Adler
Berkeley, California/USA

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 8:25:00 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

BTW, Grant is wrong in the March 2022 blog about the second lever for the 
Simplex pullchain rd. It is indeed meant to take up or relax chain tension, 
but not 

[RBW] Re: FS: Box Two Mini-V Brakes & Tektro Levers

[Johnny Alien]

Sold

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 1:23:54 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> On hold pending payment. Thanks!
>
> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:55:22 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I got these Box Two mini V brakes to use on my Protogallop vs full V. I 
>> was just interested in how they worked and they worked great. I switched up 
>> to Mini Motos. Just because I wanted Paul parts. What makes the Box Two 
>> nice is 1. The look pretty nice 2. They are lightweight 3. They offer the 
>> most tire clearance on a mini-V next to the Paul brakes. I was able to get 
>> Ultrdynamico Cavas under it with just enough spare room. Anyway I went for 
>> the blink so I will pass these along at a good price to someone that wants 
>> to give mini-V brakes a shot. These are black and the brake pads are in 
>> great usable condition. I am going to include some Tektro 314 brake levers. 
>> They are cool because they allow for both short and long pull setup. Black 
>> with silver arms. They look like every Tektro brake lever out there. They 
>> work great but there is some wear on the black parts. Not a lot but enough 
>> that I am just going to throw them in for free (since mini-V's require 
>> short pull and most upright levers are longI think). $30 shipped gets 
>> all of it.
>>
>> https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126289808
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Box Two Mini-V Brakes & Tektro Levers

[Johnny Alien]

On hold pending payment. Thanks!

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:55:22 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I got these Box Two mini V brakes to use on my Protogallop vs full V. I 
> was just interested in how they worked and they worked great. I switched up 
> to Mini Motos. Just because I wanted Paul parts. What makes the Box Two 
> nice is 1. The look pretty nice 2. They are lightweight 3. They offer the 
> most tire clearance on a mini-V next to the Paul brakes. I was able to get 
> Ultrdynamico Cavas under it with just enough spare room. Anyway I went for 
> the blink so I will pass these along at a good price to someone that wants 
> to give mini-V brakes a shot. These are black and the brake pads are in 
> great usable condition. I am going to include some Tektro 314 brake levers. 
> They are cool because they allow for both short and long pull setup. Black 
> with silver arms. They look like every Tektro brake lever out there. They 
> work great but there is some wear on the black parts. Not a lot but enough 
> that I am just going to throw them in for free (since mini-V's require 
> short pull and most upright levers are longI think). $30 shipped gets 
> all of it.
>
> https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126289808
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Bill Lindsay]

Johnny, you're probably right: Look at how cheaply we can buy Rene Herse 
Nivex rear derailleurs on the used market today...

;-)

BL in EC

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 9:41:08 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I have to think that most of the market for these is from the Rivendell 
> fan base. I don't hear any other bike group talking about them at all. 
> Because of that I kind of think IF Riv ends up bringing their new one to 
> market the used scene will come WAY down. Just a theory. I really hope that 
> I can test the theory (because they successfully release it)
>
> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time I 
>> am on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the cassette 
>> I feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur. 
>>
>> Thanks also for clarifying that any of these will work well.
>>
>> The RR will also hypothetically make life a little easier in introducing 
>> a friend to front and rear shifting- why does the same action push the bike 
>> to a higher gear in the front and lower gear in the rear (I forget too..)
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 20:58, Miles Payton  wrote:
>>
>>> I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few 
>>> months ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off 
>>> offer so I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're 
>>> usually $50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a 
>>> top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's 
>>> where you start spending $200 or more. 
>>> I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed 
>>> shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it wouldn't 
>>> be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a rebuild 
>>> in 20 years. They're pretty well-made.
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote:
>>>
 I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60 
 ideally.

 Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs 
 that one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were there 
 differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where 
 replacements are available?

 I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952 
 around that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the 
 prices rise very quickly! 

 Thanks a lot for guiding :)
 Chintan

>>> -- 
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>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/W7fPfdsBFqw/unsubscribe
>>> .
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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[RBW] FS: Box Two Mini-V Brakes & Tektro Levers

[Johnny Alien]

I got these Box Two mini V brakes to use on my Protogallop vs full V. I was 
just interested in how they worked and they worked great. I switched up to 
Mini Motos. Just because I wanted Paul parts. What makes the Box Two nice 
is 1. The look pretty nice 2. They are lightweight 3. They offer the most 
tire clearance on a mini-V next to the Paul brakes. I was able to get 
Ultrdynamico Cavas under it with just enough spare room. Anyway I went for 
the blink so I will pass these along at a good price to someone that wants 
to give mini-V brakes a shot. These are black and the brake pads are in 
great usable condition. I am going to include some Tektro 314 brake levers. 
They are cool because they allow for both short and long pull setup. Black 
with silver arms. They look like every Tektro brake lever out there. They 
work great but there is some wear on the black parts. Not a lot but enough 
that I am just going to throw them in for free (since mini-V's require 
short pull and most upright levers are longI think). $30 shipped gets 
all of it.

https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126289808

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Johnny Alien]

I have to think that most of the market for these is from the Rivendell fan 
base. I don't hear any other bike group talking about them at all. Because 
of that I kind of think IF Riv ends up bringing their new one to market the 
used scene will come WAY down. Just a theory. I really hope that I can test 
the theory (because they successfully release it)

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time I 
> am on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the cassette 
> I feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur. 
>
> Thanks also for clarifying that any of these will work well.
>
> The RR will also hypothetically make life a little easier in introducing a 
> friend to front and rear shifting- why does the same action push the bike 
> to a higher gear in the front and lower gear in the rear (I forget too..)
>
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 20:58, Miles Payton  wrote:
>
>> I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few 
>> months ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off 
>> offer so I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're 
>> usually $50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a 
>> top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's 
>> where you start spending $200 or more. 
>> I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed 
>> shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it wouldn't 
>> be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a rebuild 
>> in 20 years. They're pretty well-made.
>>
>> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60 
>>> ideally.
>>>
>>> Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs that 
>>> one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were there 
>>> differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where 
>>> replacements are available?
>>>
>>> I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952 
>>> around that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the 
>>> prices rise very quickly! 
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot for guiding :)
>>> Chintan
>>>
>> -- 
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> .
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a54c1daa-9eed-4c93-a14b-291f86853932n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Chintan Jadwani]

Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time I am
on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the cassette I
feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur.

Thanks also for clarifying that any of these will work well.

The RR will also hypothetically make life a little easier in introducing a
friend to front and rear shifting- why does the same action push the bike
to a higher gear in the front and lower gear in the rear (I forget too..)

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 20:58, Miles Payton  wrote:

> I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few months
> ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off offer so
> I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're usually
> $50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a
> top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's
> where you start spending $200 or more.
> I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed
> shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it wouldn't
> be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a rebuild
> in 20 years. They're pretty well-made.
>
> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote:
>
>> I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60 ideally.
>>
>> Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs that
>> one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were there
>> differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where
>> replacements are available?
>>
>> I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952 around
>> that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the prices rise
>> very quickly!
>>
>> Thanks a lot for guiding :)
>> Chintan
>>
> --
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2024

[Drew Fitchette]

Good Deal on a giant Clem:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/bop/d/tacoma-rivendell-clem-frame-fork-64cm/7728687165.html

On Friday, March 15, 2024 at 11:46:10 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I love a bargain 
>
> On Friday, March 15, 2024 at 7:40:48 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> It's on special offer now to those of us who are watching it.  Now 
>> avaiable for the low low price of $6250.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 9:59:37 AM UTC-7 LBleriot wrote:
>>
>>> Yikes!  I would love to add a Heron Touring to go with my Road, but this 
>>> Ebay listing is kind of a silly way to solicit real offers.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 12:26:30 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Obviously the Chris King Headset Composite Index has gone through the 
 roof.

 On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 6:37 PM Josh C  wrote:

> wow
>
> On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 3:33:10 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> $7000  In a word, HA!  At least they are taking offers...  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 12:28:26 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Heron Touring 
>>> 55cm
>>> $7000
>>> Walled Lake, Michigan
>>> Rare rare rare parts like Titanium Chris King headset, Nitto racks, 
>>> and full Campagnolo...
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/176156925449?itmmeta=01HRQFP37XW2ZW9W57MX91XV8H=item2903c55e09:g:1-QAAOSwlT9le1Vr=enc%3AAQAI4A7jbJYmJLb0qhGidg8sdvoie5vcUpIvYrS%2BSMvrLJLvPiSDvKpjMsaHlJTCd1soc%2BS7lyI3DhBCJIMPjYbsw%2Bz2jx3FF1A8HaYOsrSGCGDojnJMNqrJC9m0GJvRkaVV7ejS4wIjNmkGPkl5PLpOEQlbXY8ub8%2FhPJelndP333HN%2B5YXfIBsGZBcK%2BedK1MLmQWY7kHqX4c4AzxDVzG%2B1rJVrllsTotNUBw2pKEhm%2BQDzzEV4sTfCquOQ0jScQhSElZQaXk3KjAGccNhRMGhT54kCgPjyFiebEPpJtvqbTfN%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4C02O_FYw
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 5:36:38 PM UTC-5 Matthew Williams wrote:
>>>
 Roadini
 57cm
 2000
 Emeryville, CA


 https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/emeryville-rivendell-leo-roadini/7720529232.html

>>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>


 -- 

 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 ---

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 services


 ---

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 *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

 *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Abomination? Riv Road "upgrades"

[Brewster Fong]

I think carbon wheels have come a long way!  I recently bought a set of 
BTLOS carbon rim brake wheels and love them! They hold up to my 200lb 
weight, are aero (45mm deep rims), and super light (the wheelset came with 
a listed weight of 1305g - 729g rear and 576g front)! That's tubular wheel 
weight! The weight was a surprise as the estimate they gave when I finished 
selecting the parts was 1325 +/- 25g, so I was expecting 1350g! 

Still the wheels have been fantastic and with Reynolds blue carbon pads, I 
find the braking to be excellent, although I haven't ridden them in the 
wet. There's little to no flex and they seem to hold up to everything I put 
them through as I do occasional rides on gravely roads. 

I'm now thinking maybe I should get a set for my Della Santa, which has 
standard 32h Mavic Open Pro rims and Campy Record hubs...lol 

Of course, YMMV! 

Good Luck! 

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 7:57:32 AM UTC-7 josh.yo...@gmail.com wrote:

> Do whatever makes you happy! I have carbon bits on my Homer so we can be 
> abominations together.
>
> Josh
> Seattle, WA
>

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[RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Miles Payton]

I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few months 
ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off offer so 
I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're usually 
$50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a 
top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's 
where you start spending $200 or more. 
I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed 
shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it wouldn't 
be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a rebuild 
in 20 years. They're pretty well-made.

On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote:

> I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60 ideally.
>
> Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs that 
> one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were there 
> differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where 
> replacements are available?
>
> I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952 around 
> that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the prices rise 
> very quickly! 
>
> Thanks a lot for guiding :)
> Chintan
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Patrick Moore]

Interesting information about derailleur design history. But I read the
"normal" in "low-normal" or "high-normal" as simply "relaxed spring" and
not as "the way it ought to work."

My 2010 (purchased IIRC in 2011 or so) Sam Hill came with a "low-normal" LX
rd, and it was one of the best shifting rds I've used (first-gen Silver bar
end shifters) -- but that was simply because it was a mature-design
Shimano. I fully expect that I'd have gotten used to the reversed spring
action, but I didn't feel like doing so and sold it, and replaced it with
an equally good-shifting Micoshift road rd. (All modern rds are among the
best-shifting rds I've ever used.)

I did somehow manage to find a NOS "low-normal" Cyclo Benelux rd on a bike
shop in Nairobi in 1970 and used it on a makeshift 2-speed SA AW block
(after shimming out the cage to accommodate a 1/8" chain). That too worked
fine, over 2 cogs but then I had removed the outer chainring (50 t IIRC;
that left the 40 t inner) and front shifter so I had only 1 derailleur
movement to keep track of.

Frank Berto's early 2000's book, "The Dancing Chain" was a wonderful,
thorough but very readable historical overview of derailleur systems from
the turn of the 19th century up to at least the 8 speed era.

Patrick Moore, who likes the term "shifting pope."

On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 4:32 AM Peter Adler  wrote:

> To be nitpicky, "high normal"/"low normal" is terminology that's
> meaningful primarily for parallelogram derailleurs. We operate as if those
> are the only derailleurs that exist because parallelogram derailleurs
> (mostly developed as extrapolations and knockoffs of Campagnolo's 1951 Gran
> Sport, with important upper pivot developments by Simplex and then
> extensive advancement by Shimano and Suntour) have essentially eliminated
> the phantasmigorical range of derailleur designs that existed before 1960.
>
> Consider the Cyclo, a 1930s design employed widely by French framebuilders
> for both touring and townie bikes. The derailleur mounts under the
> driveside chainstay, and has no spring action at all - a single looping
> cable caused a helical shaft to pull the derailleur's pulley cage in one
> direction or the other, and the cage goes however far you pull it. In the
> case of the Cyclo, or other derailleurs in the category Jan Heine refers to
> as "desmodromic" such as the Nivex Rene Herse is duplicating at (I'm sure)
> great expense, there is no "normal"; there is no position to which the
> derailleur cage returns when cable tension is released because cable
> tension is equal throughout the derailleur's range. There is no spring to
> return the cage to a point of stasis.
>
> https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/french_patent_582247_-_cyclo.html
>
> Our understanding that a "normal" derailleur state is conditioned by the
> derailleurs which which we each have personal experience is easy to forget.
> A couple years ago, Grant published a blahg item commenting on a 1950s
> French racer brought in by our mutual acquaintance Ted Trambley of
> Martinez, whom I know from CR primarily as a hobbyist restorer like myself.
> He had brought in an early 1950s Alcyon (a marque which won a fair number
> of Tours de France in the 1920s-30s) equipped with a Huret suicide front
> derailleur (a mutual interest of Grant's and mine; I got Grant's
> reassembled after an attempted cloner had sent it back from Australia in
> pieces) and a Huret Louison Bobet rear derailleur. That rear derailleur
> fits into a category I call "pullchain", because I haven't seen another
> generic name for the type; the shift cable pulls a chain which goes through
> the derailleur body to the pulley cage, and increasing tension on the
> shifter+cable+chain draws the pulley cage outwards towards the body of the
> derailleur projecting outward from the frame, with counteracting pressure
> from a sort of flat clock-type spring.
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/late-march-3
>
> Grant's post gets excited about the fact that this means that relaxing
> cable tension means the pulley cage goes inwards towards the large cog -
> i.e., a "low normal"/"rapid-rise" derailleur. What he doesn't comment on is
> the fact that in the 40s-50s there were dozens of derailleur models from
> multiple companies in multiple countries (including Japan; the first
> Shimano and Suntour derailleurs were knockoffs of Simplex pullchain
> derailleurs) that did exactly the same thing, because that's just how the
> design works. Pullchain rears were the most common format of racing
> derailleur in the era, until enough teams bought Campagnolo's parallelogram
> derailleurs to displace them. I don't know why Grant doesn't mention this;
> I'm guessing it's because that style/design of derailleur is outside the
> range of his first-hand experience, as it is for me until recently and for
> almost any other rider/bike tech nerd under 85.
>
> "Absolute normal"? "Opposite movement"? Who's the Shifting Pope who gets
> to 

[RBW] Re: Abomination? Riv Road "upgrades"

[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Do whatever makes you happy! I have carbon bits on my Homer so we can be 
abominations together.

Josh
Seattle, WA

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Re: [RBW] Philadelphia Bike Expo March 16 - 17

[Tim Burke]

I love expo weekend because it lets us give so many out of towners a taste 
of what makes Philadelphia such a great city for cycling of all types!
I'm so glad that I got to meet so many folks from the forum but I wish I 
that I was able to meet everyone. Eric, it was a pleasure riding with you 
and giving you a taste of our local trails. 
On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 9:19:39 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> All the pictures make me happy for those who attended but sad that work 
> prevented me from being there this year. You all got to see and meet some 
> real icons in person there.
>  
> Having the time to browse and speak with folks who seem like they would be 
> unapproachable pillars of cycling notoriety but are real, humble and all 
> about cycling. I met and talked with so many icons and responsible parties 
> to my cycling path and equipment like Paul Price, who's Racer brakes are on 
> my RIvendell, or Wayne Bingham who now owns Mel Pinto Imports and 
> distributes VAR tools and Cane Creek products. Always love seeing Brian 
> Chapman and Johnny Coast sharing a booth. I was so happy that RIv made the 
> decision to come across the country and be a part of it. It really fits 
> their company. 
>
> I met and talked to Brad Quartuccio, the photographer in bicycling 
> "counter culture" in the '90s-'00s we both realized that we share the same 
> favorite coffee shop and he lived (then) less than a mile form me. 
>
> The Philly Bike Expo has a vibe that the InterBike trade show where I 
> always felt like I was bothering vendors despite running a shop and 
> attending for my business needs.  Bridgestone were an exception, I still 
> remember Grant offered some jelly beans while others were handing out cold 
> micro brews and all sorts of corporate trick or treat valuables (that lowly 
> shop employees in attendance hawked up by the backpackful).  There is no 
> secret handshake at PBE except liking bikes and riding. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 9:38:05 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Fantastic!! I've been keeping up with the PBE posts on Instagram. The 
>> number of vendors and cool products is amazing. I have added this to my 
>> bucket list of activities to do. Thanks for sharing the photos and short 
>> video of Pam maneuvering the box through the exhibit hall. The RivSisters 
>> look happy.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 8:33:18 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pam doing Pam Things (video, hope it works):
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Philadelphia Bike Expo March 16 - 17

[ascpgh]

All the pictures make me happy for those who attended but sad that work 
prevented me from being there this year. You all got to see and meet some 
real icons in person there.
 
Having the time to browse and speak with folks who seem like they would be 
unapproachable pillars of cycling notoriety but are real, humble and all 
about cycling. I met and talked with so many icons and responsible parties 
to my cycling path and equipment like Paul Price, who's Racer brakes are on 
my RIvendell, or Wayne Bingham who now owns Mel Pinto Imports and 
distributes VAR tools and Cane Creek products. Always love seeing Brian 
Chapman and Johnny Coast sharing a booth. I was so happy that RIv made the 
decision to come across the country and be a part of it. It really fits 
their company. 

I met and talked to Brad Quartuccio, the photographer in bicycling "counter 
culture" in the '90s-'00s we both realized that we share the same favorite 
coffee shop and he lived (then) less than a mile form me. 

The Philly Bike Expo has a vibe that the InterBike trade show where I 
always felt like I was bothering vendors despite running a shop and 
attending for my business needs.  Bridgestone were an exception, I still 
remember Grant offered some jelly beans while others were handing out cold 
micro brews and all sorts of corporate trick or treat valuables (that lowly 
shop employees in attendance hawked up by the backpackful).  There is no 
secret handshake at PBE except liking bikes and riding. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 9:38:05 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> Fantastic!! I've been keeping up with the PBE posts on Instagram. The 
> number of vendors and cool products is amazing. I have added this to my 
> bucket list of activities to do. Thanks for sharing the photos and short 
> video of Pam maneuvering the box through the exhibit hall. The RivSisters 
> look happy.
> Doug
>
> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 8:33:18 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Pam doing Pam Things (video, hope it works):
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[DavidP]

I'm using that $13 derailleur on a couple of bikes that see regular 
off-road use (including my Platypus) and it just works. I have some bikes 
with fancier RDs but will continue to use it on future builds where it fits.

The symptom of working fine in all but a couple of cogs always makes me 
think about the hanger alignment (as mentioned by Bill), but it's possible 
the the derailleur may have been damaged too.

Starting with the shifters isn't a bad idea as they will be a notable 
upgrade from the current shifters even if they aren't the cause of your 
problem.

-Dave


On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 11:50:02 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> Yes it is a 9. I've wanted to switch to Silver Thumbies so that might just 
> be the next upgrade. Good point about the derailleur too, that's something 
> to consider.
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 6:11:32 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:
>
>> Hi Vincent,
>>
>> That Clem is beautiful, but your shifting issue sounds frustrating. Are 
>> you running a 9-speed cassette in the back? I had the indexing Sunrace 
>> thumbie on my Rivendell and performance felt just ok. My vintage Suntour 
>> thumb shifters from 1983 were better, and now I have a Riv silver thumbie 
>> on and it's also better. I suggest you buy one Riv silver thumbie and try 
>> that out. I clearly remember the PDF saying the stock shifters clicked but 
>> did not index. 
>>
>> Also, consider that the Altus rear derailleur is a $13 part. Maybe it's 
>> just not up for your rough rides on the train tracks? I have a silver 
>> thumbie with the SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur shifting a 9-speed 
>> cassette, and it works perfectly. I highly recommend it. It has a clutch on 
>> it so you can forget about chain slap and dropped chains. It's available 
>> for nice prices because the trend in mountain bikes is now 12 speeds. (A 
>> matching 10 speed click shifter is also available for cheap, but I haven't 
>> tried it.)
>>
>> I also have a narrow-wide chainring on the front. Perhaps you should 
>> consider one. How often are you using the biggest chainring? For me it's 
>> never (I took it off) because live in a city and commute so I rarely get up 
>> to speed for longer than 4 minutes. Are you regularly cruising above 15 
>> MPH? If not, go lower with your gearing. Wolf-Tooth and Stridsland both 
>> have excellent narrow-wide chainrings that will fit your cranks. Fewer 
>> moving parts is a nice thing for your bike. 
>>
>> I hope this helps. Happy riding. 
>>
>> Michael 
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>>
>>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>>> complete Clem.
>>>
>>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>>> force on the first two gears.
>>>
>>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due 
>>> to the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>>
>>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>>
>>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>>> stripped cogs. 
>>>
>>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>>> situation? Thank you!
>>>
>>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: shifter.jpg]
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Peter Adler]

To be nitpicky, "high normal"/"low normal" is terminology that's meaningful 
primarily for parallelogram derailleurs. We operate as if those are the 
only derailleurs that exist because parallelogram derailleurs (mostly 
developed as extrapolations and knockoffs of Campagnolo's 1951 Gran Sport, 
with important upper pivot developments by Simplex and then extensive 
advancement by Shimano and Suntour) have essentially eliminated the 
phantasmigorical range of derailleur designs that existed before 1960.

Consider the Cyclo, a 1930s design employed widely by French framebuilders 
for both touring and townie bikes. The derailleur mounts under the 
driveside chainstay, and has no spring action at all - a single looping 
cable caused a helical shaft to pull the derailleur's pulley cage in one 
direction or the other, and the cage goes however far you pull it. In the 
case of the Cyclo, or other derailleurs in the category Jan Heine refers to 
as "desmodromic" such as the Nivex Rene Herse is duplicating at (I'm sure) 
great expense, there is no "normal"; there is no position to which the 
derailleur cage returns when cable tension is released because cable 
tension is equal throughout the derailleur's range. There is no spring to 
return the cage to a point of stasis.

https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/french_patent_582247_-_cyclo.html

Our understanding that a "normal" derailleur state is conditioned by the 
derailleurs which which we each have personal experience is easy to forget. 
A couple years ago, Grant published a blahg item commenting on a 1950s 
French racer brought in by our mutual acquaintance Ted Trambley of 
Martinez, whom I know from CR primarily as a hobbyist restorer like myself. 
He had brought in an early 1950s Alcyon (a marque which won a fair number 
of Tours de France in the 1920s-30s) equipped with a Huret suicide front 
derailleur (a mutual interest of Grant's and mine; I got Grant's 
reassembled after an attempted cloner had sent it back from Australia in 
pieces) and a Huret Louison Bobet rear derailleur. That rear derailleur 
fits into a category I call "pullchain", because I haven't seen another 
generic name for the type; the shift cable pulls a chain which goes through 
the derailleur body to the pulley cage, and increasing tension on the 
shifter+cable+chain draws the pulley cage outwards towards the body of the 
derailleur projecting outward from the frame, with counteracting pressure 
from a sort of flat clock-type spring.

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/late-march-3

Grant's post gets excited about the fact that this means that relaxing 
cable tension means the pulley cage goes inwards towards the large cog - 
i.e., a "low normal"/"rapid-rise" derailleur. What he doesn't comment on is 
the fact that in the 40s-50s there were dozens of derailleur models from 
multiple companies in multiple countries (including Japan; the first 
Shimano and Suntour derailleurs were knockoffs of Simplex pullchain 
derailleurs) that did exactly the same thing, because that's just how the 
design works. Pullchain rears were the most common format of racing 
derailleur in the era, until enough teams bought Campagnolo's parallelogram 
derailleurs to displace them. I don't know why Grant doesn't mention this; 
I'm guessing it's because that style/design of derailleur is outside the 
range of his first-hand experience, as it is for me until recently and for 
almost any other rider/bike tech nerd under 85.

"Absolute normal"? "Opposite movement"? Who's the Shifting Pope who gets to 
decide what "normal" is, from which everything else is a deviation? People 
have been making multigeared bikes for over 100 years, most of which have 
incorporated some mechanical means of changing gears while in motion. A few 
systems are still around largely because all the manufacturers dropped the 
other systems during the Eisenhower and Kennedy Administrations, but 
there's patents and surviving examples of other options. IMHO, rapid-rise 
parallelogram derailleurs are a little foolish - not because they've been 
tried in the marketplace several times and very few people other than Grant 
liked them, but because they're trying to force a dropped parallelogram 
mechanism to produce the opposite result of what the mechanism was designed 
to do, which is likely to be done with Rube Goldberg engineering. How much 
more of that do we really need?

Peter Adler
who was a devout rider of the Huret Duopar, the world's most 
over-engineered derailleur, for well over a decade in
Berkeley, California/USA

On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 8:17:37 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:

High normal refers to “regular” rear derailleurs, for which the default 
position with no spring tension is in the highest gear. Hence, high normal. 
Low normal (what Shimano called Rapid Rise) is the opposite: the default 
derailleur position without spring tension is in the lowest (largest) gear. 

This is why Grant/Riv are calling their low normal