[RBW] Re: Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[Joe Bernard]

"My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 miles to the trail 
and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage chipotle, beer, and post 
office runs."

I had a Susie for a short time in a previous life and I really wish I'd 
kept it, it would have been perfect for the town and trail rides I do now. 
For the riding you're describing - including a high priority on comfort - I 
think this distinctive, beautiful and destined to be impossible to find in 
a few years bicycle would be perfect. 

Or if you can live with the colors and low toptubes, get a Clem L. I have 
one, it's wonderful. 

Joe Bernard 

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:43:49 PM UTC-7 Bud Suttree wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> Been enjoying these forums for a while now, with my first post I’d like to 
> lean on the immense collective wisdom here and get some help with picking 
> out the right Rivendell model. I’ve done quite a lot of personal research 
> and spoken to Riv at least once but would like to open things up to the 
> group for general discussion. 
>
>
> Short sketch of my problem: I love bicycles, but haven’t enjoyed riding 
> them in a long time. I have quite a few, and they all are unpleasant to 
> ride for one reason or another. My priorities are, in descending order: 
> comfort, performance (perceived), utility, price/aesthetics (tie), 
> performance (actual), and at the end would be the ability to do any 
> outer-boundary/end-of-spectrum type activity, riding across the country or 
> racing crits, etc. My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 
> miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage 
> chipotle, beer, and post office runs. 
>
>
> Every time I browse the Riv offerings I become convinced I need a 
> different model. I’m thinking maybe the Atlantis would suit me, but I don’t 
> necessarily love the double top tube, and I’d probably be between the 57 
> and 59. The Appaloosa seems pretty similar, but I’m not crazy about either 
> of the current colors. Can’t say I can tell the difference between that one 
> and the Sam, but I like the Sam aesthetic better. I’m also tempted by the 
> gold Susie/Wolbis, but since I’ll be riding mostly around town, worry that 
> it might not feel as agile as the bikes I’m use to riding do.
>
>
> That’s the short version — would welcome any takes or opinions. 
>
>
> Longer story:
>
>
> Like the rest of you, I love bicycles. A substantial amount of my 
> attention is given to them, day after day, in one way or another. 
> Unfortunately, lately this has not translated into actually riding them 
> very often. It’s a paradoxical state, induced by having too many (project) 
> bikes, none of which I can tolerate to ride for more than half an hour. 
> It’s mostly a comfort issue. FWIW, I am a not unhealthy late 20something 
> male with probably poorish posture from desk-jockeying. I rode an aluminum 
> Cannondale road bike daily for five years, crashed, broke some bones and 
> swore it off for two, then entered this present cycle. 
>
>
> Economic realities necessitate the need to flip bikes and parts to fund 
> the passion. Maybe you think that’s a dirty trade; most are. I’ve had the 
> good fortune to pick up an outrageously rare old school BMX bike for 
> essentially nothing that should cover a very nice Rivendell build, and 
> hopefully obviate the need to engage in as much cycling commerce. 
>
>
> Along the way, I’ve acquired an interesting stable:
>
>- 93 Bridgestone RB-1 and MB-2 
>- Custom 90s Ciocc w/ Columbus EL and Chorus 
>- 93ish lugged Trek 990 
>- 1985 Trek 620 
>
> and a cache of interesting parts, so it’s not been for nothing, but I 
> don’t like riding any of those bikes. Had (still have?) big dreams for the 
> RB-1, but cannot tolerate the reach. Have tried a bunch of stem/saddle 
> options, no luck. Currently building it up w/ a Soma Highway bar and zero 
> setback post, preliminary fit check not promising. Found a crack in the 
> MB’s fork when I was tearing it down and don’t think I want to invest in it 
> without the biplane fork. The Ciocc’s max tire clearance for Corsas is 23 
> rear/25 front. The 990 might be all right, and the 620 too, but both need a 
> ton of work. 
>
>
> I’m tired of projects. Wrenching is fun but riding is better, and it was 
> never my goal to be a collector of anything. So, instead of trying to make 
> all these old bikes “like” the bike that I want, I’m just going to actually 
> go and get what I want and then be done with it for awhile. 
>
>
> Some considerations: 
>
>
> I miss running errands on my bike. I don’t have as much free time as I’d 
> like, but everyone has to go to the grocery store. I also miss long weekend 
> adventure rides and casual group rides. I WFH, so don’t need an actual 
> commuter. I like the idea of an overnight trip, and have most of the gear 
> I’d need to do it. 
>
>
> I have two really great handlebar options: the Soma Highway Ones and Ron’s 
> Orthos. I’ve never 

Re: [RBW] Re: Eroica California

[Corwin Zechar]

According to the website, Eroica California is open to all road racing, 
cyclocross and gravel bicycles with carbon, steel, titanium and aluminum 
frames.

The only requirement left over from prior years appears to be that the bike 
must have drop handlebars.

Regards,


Corwin

On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 8:01:33 PM UTC-7 Jim M. wrote:

> I rode it on my Eisentraut with period appropriate Campy Nuovo Record and 
> 30mm tubular tires. As I recall, they allow newer lugged steel bikes, and I 
> definitely saw a few Rivs. There were several folks from this list and 
> I-BOB. There's a bike expo and Concours for people to show off their rides, 
> which is great if you like looking at old steel bikes. There were awards 
> for things like best original Cinelli. Central coast Calif has a lot of 
> beautiful areas for riding. They partnered with local wineries to route 
> through vineyard roads, so there was a lot of strade bianche. Riv content 
> -- I met George Mount, who used to race against Grant back in the day, and 
> I met Andy Hampsten, who has extolled Jack Brown tires. 
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>
> On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 11:05:59 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> If I decide to gear way lower, I'll swap over a vintage compact double. 
>>  I have a Sugino AT triple converted to Guard/46/30.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 7:59:12 AM UTC-7 Keith Weaver wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, 
>>>
>>> I also have a brown Gran Premio! I especially like the Suntour symmetric 
>>> shifters. Univega was the brand sold in my childhood bike store, so when I 
>>> saw mine in a used bike shop, I had to have it. They'll always have a soft 
>>> spot in my heart. If I were to ride mine in the CA Eroica, I think I'd need 
>>> some lower gearing, maybe the Velo Orange 46-30 crankset.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 7:28 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
 I've got the bike for it, and I'm just waiting for the stars to align 
 to do the ride.  My "Eroica Bike" is a time capsule 1983 Univega Gran 
 Premio.  I've got ~700 miles on it, and will not have any issue using it 
 for an Eroica day.  


 https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/49563967306/in/album-72157713199195553/

 BL in EC

 On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 9:41:21 AM UTC-7 chefd...@gmail.com wrote:

> Curious if anyone on this forum is also a Vintage enthusiast and has 
> interest in the Eroica event that is run on the Central Coast of 
> California. I've ridden it a few times on my PX-10... its a great ride, 
> although the organization that runs the event has had its ups and downs 
> over the years. Currently, the website lists September 22, 2024 as the 
> run 
> date, but the registration button leads to last year's sign-updoes 
> anyone have any better intel? 

 -- 

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[RBW] Re: Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[Johnny Alien]

I like to think outside the box. Comfortable, nimble, useful..Platypus

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:16:21 PM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> [image: R0004896.jpeg]
> I suggest the Atlantis, though I am biased as I have one. I have it on 
> good authority that the last run of them was also the last with a double 
> TT. Moving forward, the Atlantis will have a single TT.
>
> I have racked my bike, unracked it, fendered it, have a BOB trailer for 
> it, commute 150 miles a week on it, climb up huge dirt passes, descend 
> roads faster than I should while in an aero tuck (a little hard given I 
> have a 62 and am 6’6”), and overall just really love it. So versatile, so 
> comfortable, and so pretty.
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:55:08 PM UTC-7 aeroperf wrote:
>
>> Get a Sam with a 3x9 drive.
>> Strong enough to do the riding you want, versatile enough for errands and 
>> light touring, and very comfortable.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Kim H.]

@Igor -

As a suggestion you might want to read some of the Gallery of Clem builds 
on the Rivendell Bicycle Works website for fun.

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/customer-bikes/customer-built-clems-april-24?mc_cid=23650f4213

Kim Hetzel. 

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:28:22 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I don't have a Clem and have never done a ground-up Clem build, but I did 
> fix a friend's Large Clem Complete when his stock cockpit proved too flexy. 
>  We slammed (slammed == run the stem at the lowest possible height) a 
> Choco-Moose, and that was a night and day improvement.  I'd absolutely 
> start with Choco-moose again if I was doing another Clem build for myself 
> or anybody else.  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:15:33 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> That is the stem (FW33) I ultimately chose as well.
>>
>> I agree the Albatross is a pretty decent bar for doing the forward 
>> position because it doesn't come back as far as the others but to do it 
>> properly you have to concede that that one of the positions won't be as 
>> ideal. I use the loscos and they work very well too. If you set it really 
>> far forward to account for the sweep back then the forward position is not 
>> great to be in for long. If you set it to be comfortable in the forward 
>> position the upright is sometimes not great. The losco and albatross 
>> counter that pretty well. I never understood the multi position angle that 
>> Riv takes but then tell you you need a really long stem to counter the 
>> sweep. That puts the forward position way out there. So yeah if you want to 
>> use both get one with less sweep and rise/ Thats been what has worked for 
>> me.
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 11:19:05 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:
>>
>>> For what it's worth, I tried a Nitto FW33 stem (120mm, too long for her 
>>> imagine...) and it can be "slammed" in the head tube of this 45cm. I've got 
>>> all of the spacers on the headset and have not/will not cut the steerer of 
>>> the fork either. I need to measure the stem quill length.. 
>>> https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-fw30-power-stem-dull.html
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:46:13 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 My experience on my Clem is quite the opposite of Garth’s. I do 
 understand that my situation may be unique but it is what it is. 45 degree 
 forward simply does not work for me. Bolt upright is the only way I can 
 achieve a no numb hands position. Going into the wind I will assume a more 
 forward leaning position but I cannot stay there very long. Numbness is 
 almost immediately. I ride my Clem for hours with virtually no weight on 
 my 
 hands. And yes, my saddle is in the perfect vertical & horizontal position 
 relative to the bottom bracket. I have ridden in this position, Bosco’s 
 2”-3” above saddle height, for 2 years & over 7,000 miles. No numb hands.
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 5, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Garth  wrote:

 An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept 
 back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to 
 and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a 
 "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the 
 other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is 
 just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, 
 requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with 
 proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your 
 legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having 
 your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I 
 think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand 
 positions 
 are desired. 


 On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the 
> smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 
> 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very 
> far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that 
> with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to 
> get 
> it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go 
> short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars 
> that also have height. 
>
> The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright 
> mix. Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:
>
>> This is a 2023 45cm Clem.
>>
>>  I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and 
>> upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and 

[RBW] Re: Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[Mathias Steiner]

The Sam is certainly a good option.
But I'd be interested in why you didn't enjoy the 
>> 1985 Trek 620 
which many would consider a grail bike.

If the complaint was "too noodley with a load", step right up to a Sam or 
heavier.
If it's "too stiff and dead-feeling" then maybe a Roadini -- or maybe Rivs 
aren't for you, given how conservative they are with tube strength.

Also the Rivendell top tubes tend to be long, to accomodate upright 
handlebars. If you prefer drop bars and you felt "stretched" on the 620, 
that's going to be difficult.

I like what you said about wanting a bike for riding, not wrenching, but 
it's difficult when you can't try the specific models.
If you give us more information, the swarm may be able to help ;)

cheers -mathias

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:12:21 PM UTC-4 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> +1I think a Sam with a 3x9 drivetrain and 44mm tires will be perfect 
> for your needs. Great with or without racks, amazing with drops or upright 
> bars, and it looks great. Easy to basket and fender.
>
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:43:49 PM UTC-7 Bud Suttree wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> Been enjoying these forums for a while now, with my first post I’d like 
>> to lean on the immense collective wisdom here and get some help with 
>> picking out the right Rivendell model. I’ve done quite a lot of personal 
>> research and spoken to Riv at least once but would like to open things up 
>> to the group for general discussion. 
>>
>>
>> Short sketch of my problem: I love bicycles, but haven’t enjoyed riding 
>> them in a long time. I have quite a few, and they all are unpleasant to 
>> ride for one reason or another. My priorities are, in descending order: 
>> comfort, performance (perceived), utility, price/aesthetics (tie), 
>> performance (actual), and at the end would be the ability to do any 
>> outer-boundary/end-of-spectrum type activity, riding across the country or 
>> racing crits, etc. My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 
>> miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage 
>> chipotle, beer, and post office runs. 
>>
>>
>> Every time I browse the Riv offerings I become convinced I need a 
>> different model. I’m thinking maybe the Atlantis would suit me, but I don’t 
>> necessarily love the double top tube, and I’d probably be between the 57 
>> and 59. The Appaloosa seems pretty similar, but I’m not crazy about either 
>> of the current colors. Can’t say I can tell the difference between that one 
>> and the Sam, but I like the Sam aesthetic better. I’m also tempted by the 
>> gold Susie/Wolbis, but since I’ll be riding mostly around town, worry that 
>> it might not feel as agile as the bikes I’m use to riding do.
>>
>>
>> That’s the short version — would welcome any takes or opinions. 
>>
>>
>> Longer story:
>>
>>
>> Like the rest of you, I love bicycles. A substantial amount of my 
>> attention is given to them, day after day, in one way or another. 
>> Unfortunately, lately this has not translated into actually riding them 
>> very often. It’s a paradoxical state, induced by having too many (project) 
>> bikes, none of which I can tolerate to ride for more than half an hour. 
>> It’s mostly a comfort issue. FWIW, I am a not unhealthy late 20something 
>> male with probably poorish posture from desk-jockeying. I rode an aluminum 
>> Cannondale road bike daily for five years, crashed, broke some bones and 
>> swore it off for two, then entered this present cycle. 
>>
>>
>> Economic realities necessitate the need to flip bikes and parts to fund 
>> the passion. Maybe you think that’s a dirty trade; most are. I’ve had the 
>> good fortune to pick up an outrageously rare old school BMX bike for 
>> essentially nothing that should cover a very nice Rivendell build, and 
>> hopefully obviate the need to engage in as much cycling commerce. 
>>
>>
>> Along the way, I’ve acquired an interesting stable:
>>
>>- 93 Bridgestone RB-1 and MB-2 
>>- Custom 90s Ciocc w/ Columbus EL and Chorus 
>>- 93ish lugged Trek 990 
>>- 1985 Trek 620 
>>
>> and a cache of interesting parts, so it’s not been for nothing, but I 
>> don’t like riding any of those bikes. Had (still have?) big dreams for the 
>> RB-1, but cannot tolerate the reach. Have tried a bunch of stem/saddle 
>> options, no luck. Currently building it up w/ a Soma Highway bar and zero 
>> setback post, preliminary fit check not promising. Found a crack in the 
>> MB’s fork when I was tearing it down and don’t think I want to invest in it 
>> without the biplane fork. The Ciocc’s max tire clearance for Corsas is 23 
>> rear/25 front. The 990 might be all right, and the 620 too, but both need a 
>> ton of work. 
>>
>>
>> I’m tired of projects. Wrenching is fun but riding is better, and it was 
>> never my goal to be a collector of anything. So, instead of trying to make 
>> all these old bikes “like” the bike that I want, I’m just going to actually 
>> go and get what I want 

[RBW] Re: Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[Luke Hendrickson]

[image: R0004896.jpeg]
I suggest the Atlantis, though I am biased as I have one. I have it on good 
authority that the last run of them was also the last with a double TT. 
Moving forward, the Atlantis will have a single TT.

I have racked my bike, unracked it, fendered it, have a BOB trailer for it, 
commute 150 miles a week on it, climb up huge dirt passes, descend roads 
faster than I should while in an aero tuck (a little hard given I have a 62 
and am 6’6”), and overall just really love it. So versatile, so 
comfortable, and so pretty.
On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:55:08 PM UTC-7 aeroperf wrote:

> Get a Sam with a 3x9 drive.
> Strong enough to do the riding you want, versatile enough for errands and 
> light touring, and very comfortable.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[Tony Lockhart]

+1I think a Sam with a 3x9 drivetrain and 44mm tires will be perfect 
for your needs. Great with or without racks, amazing with drops or upright 
bars, and it looks great. Easy to basket and fender.


On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:43:49 PM UTC-7 Bud Suttree wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> Been enjoying these forums for a while now, with my first post I’d like to 
> lean on the immense collective wisdom here and get some help with picking 
> out the right Rivendell model. I’ve done quite a lot of personal research 
> and spoken to Riv at least once but would like to open things up to the 
> group for general discussion. 
>
>
> Short sketch of my problem: I love bicycles, but haven’t enjoyed riding 
> them in a long time. I have quite a few, and they all are unpleasant to 
> ride for one reason or another. My priorities are, in descending order: 
> comfort, performance (perceived), utility, price/aesthetics (tie), 
> performance (actual), and at the end would be the ability to do any 
> outer-boundary/end-of-spectrum type activity, riding across the country or 
> racing crits, etc. My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 
> miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage 
> chipotle, beer, and post office runs. 
>
>
> Every time I browse the Riv offerings I become convinced I need a 
> different model. I’m thinking maybe the Atlantis would suit me, but I don’t 
> necessarily love the double top tube, and I’d probably be between the 57 
> and 59. The Appaloosa seems pretty similar, but I’m not crazy about either 
> of the current colors. Can’t say I can tell the difference between that one 
> and the Sam, but I like the Sam aesthetic better. I’m also tempted by the 
> gold Susie/Wolbis, but since I’ll be riding mostly around town, worry that 
> it might not feel as agile as the bikes I’m use to riding do.
>
>
> That’s the short version — would welcome any takes or opinions. 
>
>
> Longer story:
>
>
> Like the rest of you, I love bicycles. A substantial amount of my 
> attention is given to them, day after day, in one way or another. 
> Unfortunately, lately this has not translated into actually riding them 
> very often. It’s a paradoxical state, induced by having too many (project) 
> bikes, none of which I can tolerate to ride for more than half an hour. 
> It’s mostly a comfort issue. FWIW, I am a not unhealthy late 20something 
> male with probably poorish posture from desk-jockeying. I rode an aluminum 
> Cannondale road bike daily for five years, crashed, broke some bones and 
> swore it off for two, then entered this present cycle. 
>
>
> Economic realities necessitate the need to flip bikes and parts to fund 
> the passion. Maybe you think that’s a dirty trade; most are. I’ve had the 
> good fortune to pick up an outrageously rare old school BMX bike for 
> essentially nothing that should cover a very nice Rivendell build, and 
> hopefully obviate the need to engage in as much cycling commerce. 
>
>
> Along the way, I’ve acquired an interesting stable:
>
>- 93 Bridgestone RB-1 and MB-2 
>- Custom 90s Ciocc w/ Columbus EL and Chorus 
>- 93ish lugged Trek 990 
>- 1985 Trek 620 
>
> and a cache of interesting parts, so it’s not been for nothing, but I 
> don’t like riding any of those bikes. Had (still have?) big dreams for the 
> RB-1, but cannot tolerate the reach. Have tried a bunch of stem/saddle 
> options, no luck. Currently building it up w/ a Soma Highway bar and zero 
> setback post, preliminary fit check not promising. Found a crack in the 
> MB’s fork when I was tearing it down and don’t think I want to invest in it 
> without the biplane fork. The Ciocc’s max tire clearance for Corsas is 23 
> rear/25 front. The 990 might be all right, and the 620 too, but both need a 
> ton of work. 
>
>
> I’m tired of projects. Wrenching is fun but riding is better, and it was 
> never my goal to be a collector of anything. So, instead of trying to make 
> all these old bikes “like” the bike that I want, I’m just going to actually 
> go and get what I want and then be done with it for awhile. 
>
>
> Some considerations: 
>
>
> I miss running errands on my bike. I don’t have as much free time as I’d 
> like, but everyone has to go to the grocery store. I also miss long weekend 
> adventure rides and casual group rides. I WFH, so don’t need an actual 
> commuter. I like the idea of an overnight trip, and have most of the gear 
> I’d need to do it. 
>
>
> I have two really great handlebar options: the Soma Highway Ones and Ron’s 
> Orthos. I’ve never spent much of any time on bars that weren’t drops, but 
> think I’m leaning towards the orthos for this project. That said, it would 
> be cool if I could use both. 
>
>
> I want lots of gears. Live in a somewhat hilly town (Nashville) with steep 
> climbs on most of my routes. Getting nearly anywhere usually requires at 
> least some riding on busy streets w/o cycling lanes. 
>
>
> No local Riv dealer anymore 

[RBW] Re: Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[aeroperf]

Get a Sam with a 3x9 drive.
Strong enough to do the riding you want, versatile enough for errands and 
light touring, and very comfortable.

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Re: [RBW] For all-rounder fandom doing spring overhauls

[Joe Kisley]

Bike Farmer is my current favorite YouTube channel.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 11:32 AM Ryan  wrote:

> Ugh...I have a CK headset on my 1997 A/R which is probably suffering from
> benign neglect...maybe I'm not the only one
>
> BikeFarmer Rivendell All-Rounder BIKE CHECK with bonus headset overhaul
> and head tube facing
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysx21nddMmk=53s
>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho... stem question

[Wesley]

For folks who want a higher rise on these stems, my setup combines a 
super-tall quill-to-threadless adapter 
(https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/soma-high-rider-xl-quill-28-6-22-2-290mm-4984)
 
with a 1990s Trek "System 2" stem (for 
instance: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/hT8AAOSwzWBi7UKa/s-l400.jpg) which 
are often available on eBay. I think there are "System 1" and "System 3" of 
similar lengths, too (mine is 150mm).
-Wes

On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 3:43:41 PM UTC-7 Jordan Rosenblum wrote:

> Not unlike other folks, I found the width of the Ortho's demanded a longer 
> stem than I use with Bosco and Tosco bars. Another option that I think sits 
> somewhere between a face-plater and other single bolt stems are the Ritchey 
> Force made by Nitto stems of the 90's, which you can occasionally find in 
> even longer lengths. They are steel with a single bolt—and very pretty. The 
> downside is that they don't have a ton of rise. As the poster above 
> mentions, I have successfully used a Ritchey 25.4 clamp diameter stem with 
> the 26.0 Ortho's, which were very secure—though I don't presume any 
> knowledge of whether this is long-term safe. 
>
> I saw this post just as I was prepping a for-sale post of similar stems on 
> another forum. If Chris or other folks are interested, the following are up 
> for grabs, I am going to create a new post so that I don't derail the 
> thread. These include a 120mm 25.4 faceplate stem, Ritchey 25.4 stems in 
> 150 and 170mm(),  and a Ritchey 135mm, 26.0 (might be what you're 
> looking for). Regardless, if you don't need a long steering column, I 
> highly recommend the Ritchey Force stems if you can scrounge up the size 
> that would work for you.
>
> Jordan in Portland, Oregon
>
> [image: IMG_6005.jpg]
> [image: IMG_6011.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 1:39:02 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> For what it is worth Ron used 25.4 clamp size stems and claims & claims 
>> they work great. Got to spread that clamp I guess.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2024, at 12:09 PM, El Sapo  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Wish I would have understood the issues with the 26 mm handlebar clamp 
>> prior to purchasing the Ortho Bar. No megusta.The pics posted by iamKeith 
>> don’t show that his hair, beard, and hip vibe are much greater riding the 
>> bike with ortho bars.
>> On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 7:50:27 AM UTC-7 Chris K wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you all for the pics and advice! Very helpful.
>>>
>>> I'm putting these bars on a 1985 Trek 870. As Riv says on their 
>>> cardboard geo charts "don't obsess", but geometrically this old frame is 
>>> not terribly far off some Riv models, setting aside, of course, bb drop and 
>>> stack (1985 Trek 870: 21.8" frame, 71º hta, 71.5º sta, 58.0 tt, 48.5 cs, 
>>> 5.0 drop, 52.7 stack, 40.6 reach).
>>>
>>> My current set-up is Choco bars and an 8cm Dirt Drop. The height feels 
>>> fine, just slightly above saddle height, and the reach isn't bad either but 
>>> could be ~1" longer. I'm fairly upright but can lean in and grip forward as 
>>> needed. I just like the idea of more width and more flare.
>>>
>>> Are these details helpful? I'm maybe leaning toward the 135mm Faceplater 
>>> based on your replies, but that does seem long!
>>> On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 5:48:02 PM UTC-6 Dan wrote:
>>>
 [image: IMG_9267.jpeg]I’ve got these bars lined up for my Appaloosa 
 build. 
 My local bike shop had a NOS Velo Orange Grand Cru stem in 120mm that 
 looks pretty perfect. It’s 26.0, and having no rise should be slightly 
 longer in reality than its length number suggests. I’m hoping that the 
 wider clamp section will help it to grip the bars well too, despite the 
 single bolt. 


 On Monday 11 March 2024 at 03:33:24 UTC+10:30 Chris K wrote:

> Hey all, I've got some Ortho Bars in my cart and looking for stem 
> advice from those who use this bar. Obv there are multiple fit and frame 
> factors that play into something like this, but curious what people are 
> generally going with. Here are the options I'm deciding between:
>
> - Faceplater 110mm
> - Faceplater 135mm
> - Tallux 12cm
>
> Will the 110 Faceplater be too short?
>
 -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Long Chainstays - What Problem/Deficiency Do They Solve?

[Roy Summer]

Long chain stays usually mean a longer wheelbase which means a more 
comfortable ride because you’re not sitting on top of the rear wheel (think 
compact car vs. limo) and less climbing ability as the rider, again, is not 
sitting over the rear wheel. That said, use a lower gear to climb and don’t 
worry about being first in the mountain stages at the TDF. A longer 
wheelbase also generally results in a somewhat slower handling bike ( not 
that it is dangerous, just not twitchy) so leave the long chain stay ride 
home when you do your next crit.
On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 1:50:18 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> Enjoyed reading the thread "Anyone else not a fan of long chainstays?", 
> especially Bill L's explanation of the RBW bike design philosophy.   Seems 
> the prevailing thought is long stays are better for
> upright riding
> single track type trails (vs a Rails to Trails type trail)
>
> I'll just note 2 'facts'
> 1  The vast majority of RBW models (except the Roadeo type frame) use 
> slack STA and HTA which may contribute to the ride effect when coupled with 
> long stays.
> 2.  In the beginning RBW addressed getting the bars higher and adopting a 
> non-racer riding style (back at 45° with hands on hoods), which IMHO were 
> solutions to actual problems.
>
> *So What problem or current deficiency in bike design is Grant solving by 
> using long chain stays*
> Just to bring bikes to market that no one else is building??
> Or do they solve a real problem???
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> FWIW 2 of 3 of my frames have 44 to 45cm chain stays, and 1 has a 43cm 
> chain stay.It's hard to notice a ride difference.
>

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

[george schick]

I'm apparently of the same ilk as Bill.  I'm using a Shimano Crane RD 
(their predecessor to the Dura-Ace line) on a Fuji Finest of the same time 
period, very early 70's, and it looks just fine on there.

On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 6:09:49 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I admire how the entire build hinges on a rear derailleur that looks good, 
> first and foremost, and everything else will fall into place after that. 
>  ;-)
>
> BL
>
> On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 12:59:37 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 9:54:49 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Even OLD is TBD?
>>
>>
>> Yes, but I don’t have any specific requirements there. I don’t expect 
>> chainring clearance or chain deflection issues to cause me to lean in a 
>> particular direction. However, availability of compatible  components will 
>> be a factor.
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee WI USA
>>
>

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[RBW] Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[Bud Suttree]

Hi all,


Been enjoying these forums for a while now, with my first post I’d like to 
lean on the immense collective wisdom here and get some help with picking 
out the right Rivendell model. I’ve done quite a lot of personal research 
and spoken to Riv at least once but would like to open things up to the 
group for general discussion. 


Short sketch of my problem: I love bicycles, but haven’t enjoyed riding 
them in a long time. I have quite a few, and they all are unpleasant to 
ride for one reason or another. My priorities are, in descending order: 
comfort, performance (perceived), utility, price/aesthetics (tie), 
performance (actual), and at the end would be the ability to do any 
outer-boundary/end-of-spectrum type activity, riding across the country or 
racing crits, etc. My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 
miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage 
chipotle, beer, and post office runs. 


Every time I browse the Riv offerings I become convinced I need a different 
model. I’m thinking maybe the Atlantis would suit me, but I don’t 
necessarily love the double top tube, and I’d probably be between the 57 
and 59. The Appaloosa seems pretty similar, but I’m not crazy about either 
of the current colors. Can’t say I can tell the difference between that one 
and the Sam, but I like the Sam aesthetic better. I’m also tempted by the 
gold Susie/Wolbis, but since I’ll be riding mostly around town, worry that 
it might not feel as agile as the bikes I’m use to riding do.


That’s the short version — would welcome any takes or opinions. 


Longer story:


Like the rest of you, I love bicycles. A substantial amount of my attention 
is given to them, day after day, in one way or another. Unfortunately, 
lately this has not translated into actually riding them very often. It’s a 
paradoxical state, induced by having too many (project) bikes, none of 
which I can tolerate to ride for more than half an hour. It’s mostly a 
comfort issue. FWIW, I am a not unhealthy late 20something male with 
probably poorish posture from desk-jockeying. I rode an aluminum Cannondale 
road bike daily for five years, crashed, broke some bones and swore it off 
for two, then entered this present cycle. 


Economic realities necessitate the need to flip bikes and parts to fund the 
passion. Maybe you think that’s a dirty trade; most are. I’ve had the good 
fortune to pick up an outrageously rare old school BMX bike for essentially 
nothing that should cover a very nice Rivendell build, and hopefully 
obviate the need to engage in as much cycling commerce. 


Along the way, I’ve acquired an interesting stable:

   - 93 Bridgestone RB-1 and MB-2 
   - Custom 90s Ciocc w/ Columbus EL and Chorus 
   - 93ish lugged Trek 990 
   - 1985 Trek 620 

and a cache of interesting parts, so it’s not been for nothing, but I don’t 
like riding any of those bikes. Had (still have?) big dreams for the RB-1, 
but cannot tolerate the reach. Have tried a bunch of stem/saddle options, 
no luck. Currently building it up w/ a Soma Highway bar and zero setback 
post, preliminary fit check not promising. Found a crack in the MB’s fork 
when I was tearing it down and don’t think I want to invest in it without 
the biplane fork. The Ciocc’s max tire clearance for Corsas is 23 rear/25 
front. The 990 might be all right, and the 620 too, but both need a ton of 
work. 


I’m tired of projects. Wrenching is fun but riding is better, and it was 
never my goal to be a collector of anything. So, instead of trying to make 
all these old bikes “like” the bike that I want, I’m just going to actually 
go and get what I want and then be done with it for awhile. 


Some considerations: 


I miss running errands on my bike. I don’t have as much free time as I’d 
like, but everyone has to go to the grocery store. I also miss long weekend 
adventure rides and casual group rides. I WFH, so don’t need an actual 
commuter. I like the idea of an overnight trip, and have most of the gear 
I’d need to do it. 


I have two really great handlebar options: the Soma Highway Ones and Ron’s 
Orthos. I’ve never spent much of any time on bars that weren’t drops, but 
think I’m leaning towards the orthos for this project. That said, it would 
be cool if I could use both. 


I want lots of gears. Live in a somewhat hilly town (Nashville) with steep 
climbs on most of my routes. Getting nearly anywhere usually requires at 
least some riding on busy streets w/o cycling lanes. 


No local Riv dealer anymore (AFAIK). 


With all that said, of the current offerings, what would y’all recommend? 


Thank you

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Re: [RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[Wesley]

I just want to preface that I am confused but in no way mad:
I made a couple of replies in this thread that were deleted by the 
moderator(s) and I am confused as to why. Apparently I broke some group 
rule(?) and I'd like to avoid doing so in the future so would appreciate 
getting some guidance from the mods. Thanks!
-Wes

On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 8:46:29 PM UTC-7 Emily Guise wrote:

> Hey all, thanks so much for your insights! I'm local to Portland OR, and 
> there is a bike fitter in town, Pedal PT, who also does physical therapy. 
> I've been wondering if I should get a fit with them, and it seems like I 
> should look into it more seriously.
>
> My travel/adventure/distance bike is a Bike Friday, and that's the one I'd 
> get fit. I do tend to like the flatter saddles, and usually ride with the 
> nose titled up. A challenge is that I have very long arms and legs but a 
> shorter torso. Anyone with a similar body type have any advice?
>
> I have tried women's specific saddles- I tried a Terry Liberator for a 
> while, but it was just SO hard, even though the cutout was fantastic. The 
> same with the Brookses, I always felt like I was sitting on the metal edge 
> or the leather was as unforgiving as wood and as uncomfortable. I'm trying 
> out Riv's new plastic saddle on my Platypus right now. It's sort of 
> comfortable but also feels maybe not quite wide enough. I'll have to give 
> it a few more weeks. 
>
>
> On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 7:22:12 AM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> Roberta, have you experimented with a cut-out saddle? 
>>
>> Jock
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 12:20 AM Roberta  wrote:
>>
>>> The Philadelphia Trek store can measure sits bones. Perhaps there is one 
>>> near you to give you some direction?
>>>
>>> I prefer a flat top like the B68 to a rounder top B17. I also have wide 
>>> sits bones, so B17 too narrow for me.   I tilt the saddle nose up, so I’m 
>>> sitting on the flat back part of the saddle.  Otherwise I slide to the 
>>> front sitting on the nose part, and that is very irritating.  Where are you 
>>> sitting on the saddle?
>>>
>>> Also take notice where the seams of your underwear are when you’re 
>>> riding as sit bones on seams are irritating. 
>>>
>>> Roberta
>>> Philadelphia 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 4:00:24 PM UTC-4 Emily Guise wrote:
>>>
 Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a 
 saddle that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always 
 ended up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really 
 limited my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the 
 C canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a 
 saddle that won't hurt. 

 I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic, 
 cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of 
 the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a 
 central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for 
 around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured. 

 It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly 
 comfortable long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I 
 figured I'd ask the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it 
 "disappear"? Was it love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot 
 before finding the ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you 
 ride before it becomes uncomfortable? 

 I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look 
 for in the next saddle I try out. Thanks! 


 -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[Wesley]

If you've thought leather saddles felt too hard and wooden, I recommend 
going for an aggressive break-in that breaks the rules you'll often hear 
about being minimal with anything you put on the saddle. So if you still 
have a Brooks that you thought was uncomfortable, here is what I do to 
break them in fast and soft:

- Work mink oil into the leather with all your strength, alternating 
between massaging it in with your thumbs and then flexing the leather up 
and down between your fingers. Really soften it up, focussing on the 
sit-bone areas.
- Give the saddle a deep soak and then ride it wet. It will stretch and 
soften immediately, and very quickly begin to adapt to your shape.

Some folks say to avoid stuff like this because it makes the leather 
stretch, but in my opinion that stretched and well-softened leather is what 
makes a leather saddle comfortable. Maybe they wear out faster (I haven't 
worn one out after five years) but even so, a comfy saddle that you wear 
out is better than a painful saddle that you never use.
-Wes

On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 8:46:29 PM UTC-7 Emily Guise wrote:

> Hey all, thanks so much for your insights! I'm local to Portland OR, and 
> there is a bike fitter in town, Pedal PT, who also does physical therapy. 
> I've been wondering if I should get a fit with them, and it seems like I 
> should look into it more seriously.
>
> My travel/adventure/distance bike is a Bike Friday, and that's the one I'd 
> get fit. I do tend to like the flatter saddles, and usually ride with the 
> nose titled up. A challenge is that I have very long arms and legs but a 
> shorter torso. Anyone with a similar body type have any advice?
>
> I have tried women's specific saddles- I tried a Terry Liberator for a 
> while, but it was just SO hard, even though the cutout was fantastic. The 
> same with the Brookses, I always felt like I was sitting on the metal edge 
> or the leather was as unforgiving as wood and as uncomfortable. I'm trying 
> out Riv's new plastic saddle on my Platypus right now. It's sort of 
> comfortable but also feels maybe not quite wide enough. I'll have to give 
> it a few more weeks. 
>
>
> On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 7:22:12 AM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> Roberta, have you experimented with a cut-out saddle? 
>>
>> Jock
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 12:20 AM Roberta  wrote:
>>
>>> The Philadelphia Trek store can measure sits bones. Perhaps there is one 
>>> near you to give you some direction?
>>>
>>> I prefer a flat top like the B68 to a rounder top B17. I also have wide 
>>> sits bones, so B17 too narrow for me.   I tilt the saddle nose up, so I’m 
>>> sitting on the flat back part of the saddle.  Otherwise I slide to the 
>>> front sitting on the nose part, and that is very irritating.  Where are you 
>>> sitting on the saddle?
>>>
>>> Also take notice where the seams of your underwear are when you’re 
>>> riding as sit bones on seams are irritating. 
>>>
>>> Roberta
>>> Philadelphia 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 4:00:24 PM UTC-4 Emily Guise wrote:
>>>
 Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a 
 saddle that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always 
 ended up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really 
 limited my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the 
 C canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a 
 saddle that won't hurt. 

 I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic, 
 cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of 
 the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a 
 central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for 
 around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured. 

 It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly 
 comfortable long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I 
 figured I'd ask the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it 
 "disappear"? Was it love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot 
 before finding the ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you 
 ride before it becomes uncomfortable? 

 I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look 
 for in the next saddle I try out. Thanks! 


 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a93cb530-6ec0-4fcd-894a-868948892b91n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[Wesley]

Hey Emily,
I'm also a long legs, short torso person. My experience is that I need to 
use a ridiculously tall stem with a short extension, but that doesn't 
really apply in your case because the Bike Friday stem must already have 
odd proportions.

More importantly, if your complaint with Brooks saddles has been their 
hardness, I'd advise breaking all the rules of breaking-in a leather 
saddle. Work mink oil into the leather until it softens. Give the saddle a 
deep soak and ride it wet. You want to really get the leather stretching 
and softening. It's how I like my leather saddles and they do still last 
for many years (I've had mine for five years and I don't see any evidence 
it is wearing out.) It really makes a big difference and the saddle will 
start adapting to your shape in the first few rides.

I hope this helps!
-Wes

On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 8:46:29 PM UTC-7 Emily Guise wrote:

> Hey all, thanks so much for your insights! I'm local to Portland OR, and 
> there is a bike fitter in town, Pedal PT, who also does physical therapy. 
> I've been wondering if I should get a fit with them, and it seems like I 
> should look into it more seriously.
>
> My travel/adventure/distance bike is a Bike Friday, and that's the one I'd 
> get fit. I do tend to like the flatter saddles, and usually ride with the 
> nose titled up. A challenge is that I have very long arms and legs but a 
> shorter torso. Anyone with a similar body type have any advice?
>
> I have tried women's specific saddles- I tried a Terry Liberator for a 
> while, but it was just SO hard, even though the cutout was fantastic. The 
> same with the Brookses, I always felt like I was sitting on the metal edge 
> or the leather was as unforgiving as wood and as uncomfortable. I'm trying 
> out Riv's new plastic saddle on my Platypus right now. It's sort of 
> comfortable but also feels maybe not quite wide enough. I'll have to give 
> it a few more weeks. 
>
>
> On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 7:22:12 AM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> Roberta, have you experimented with a cut-out saddle? 
>>
>> Jock
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 12:20 AM Roberta  wrote:
>>
>>> The Philadelphia Trek store can measure sits bones. Perhaps there is one 
>>> near you to give you some direction?
>>>
>>> I prefer a flat top like the B68 to a rounder top B17. I also have wide 
>>> sits bones, so B17 too narrow for me.   I tilt the saddle nose up, so I’m 
>>> sitting on the flat back part of the saddle.  Otherwise I slide to the 
>>> front sitting on the nose part, and that is very irritating.  Where are you 
>>> sitting on the saddle?
>>>
>>> Also take notice where the seams of your underwear are when you’re 
>>> riding as sit bones on seams are irritating. 
>>>
>>> Roberta
>>> Philadelphia 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 4:00:24 PM UTC-4 Emily Guise wrote:
>>>
 Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a 
 saddle that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always 
 ended up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really 
 limited my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the 
 C canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a 
 saddle that won't hurt. 

 I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic, 
 cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of 
 the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a 
 central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for 
 around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured. 

 It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly 
 comfortable long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I 
 figured I'd ask the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it 
 "disappear"? Was it love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot 
 before finding the ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you 
 ride before it becomes uncomfortable? 

 I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look 
 for in the next saddle I try out. Thanks! 


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[RBW] Re: Question about rear brake cable housing routing with low friction on a Clem

[Roy Summer]

The roller set up doesn’t really reduce friction as the cable rubs the 
roller and the roller turns as well.  The roller guide often moves and 
causes cable issues if you’re not careful moving the bike or loading a 
rack. The first set up (blue bike) should work better as long as you don’t 
make the cable loop too tight. Use Teflon lined housing, stainless cables, 
and a drop of light oil, and you’ll be good to go.
On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 7:28:13 AM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I currently have the standard cable routing for my rear cantilever brakes. 
> The cable and housing runs up the top low bar onto the seat tube and up and 
> over the seat stay into a cable housing guide off of the seat post binder 
> bolt. See first attached picture.
>
> My question is would there be less friction of having the cable and 
> housing run in the same route as above, except for having it run through a 
> DIA-COMPE 
> center pull cable pulley roller mounted off the the seat binder bolt with a 
> longer seat binder bolt ?  See second attached picture.
>
> What are your thoughts and feedback ?
>
> Would there be any differences ?
>
> Thank-you,
> Kim Hetzel. 
> [image: Nitto S83 Seat post 2mmm.jpg][image: xjeovlzsunac1.jpg]

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long Chainstays - What Problem/Deficiency Do They Solve?

[Jason Fuller]

The only valid way to answer this is to ride them and find out if you like 
it or not. There is no amount of talking about them on the internet that 
can answer the question. That said, I think it's intuitive that it will 
improve comfort even before swinging a leg over one for the same reason 
sitting in the middle of the bus is more comfortable than over the rear 
axle of the bus. At the same time, improving weight balance front to rear 
will benefit front wheel traction, and this is very relevant to Riv's focus 
on safe riding bikes. Not enough weight on the front tire is a recipe for 
the front wheel washing out.  I would also appreciate the ample heel 
clearance with panniers.  

I had the proto Charlie for a bit with 50cm chainstays and it rode nice, I 
saw no drawback to the long rear end, and it improved all the points noted 
above. I wouldn't want them for a bike that I sprint on, or ride really 
playfully like my Wombat, but love it for a touring or commuting bike. 

On Thursday 4 April 2024 at 17:46:01 UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Here's one benefit of very long chainstays: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXRjXv_4v0
>
> You couldn't do that on any of my road Rivs or my Sam.
>
> Patrick Moore, who used to use his right foot to brake the 24" front wheel 
> in 28"-wheel fork on his very first build when riding the fw bike without 
> other brakes in heavy traffic and down steep, winding hills on traffic 
> arteries.
>

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[RBW] Re: For all-rounder fandom doing spring overhauls

[Ryan]

Well...I did have a good LBS(closed now, alas!)  run by a good friend of 
mine do the tapping and facing to install the CK...and I'm sure Rivendell 
did whatever was necessary to install Chris King headsets  for my custom 
road and mixte... so Matthew...what you said about regrease and readjust is 
maybe enough

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 2:42:22 PM UTC-5 Matthew P wrote:

> I watched the first 9 min. Thats pretty good for me! I'll return and skip 
> through the 53 min
>
> Nice bike! Really a joy to see.
>
> Possible the headset was just a little tight? Loosen and bit plus 
> re-grease it and done? I'll watch more to maybe find out :)
>
> What prompted me to write: I like it "when threads collide" - his tall 
> stem called upon that other "clem stem" thread going on.
> His stem makes pulling it out difficult. It wouldn't be the case if he was 
> using more of the length and cable lengths set at that.
> Not a mistake, but we can see how that tall of a stem maybe causes a 
> little difficulty for him (quill stem supposed to make adjustments easier, 
> is one argument) plus the weight (FWIWeighs).
>
> Great bike though. No complaints overall. I'll return to ingest more of 
> the vid.
>
> -Matthew P
> San Diego - Kumeyaay Land
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:45:17 AM UTC-7 Mike Godwin wrote:
>
>> Man, that looks like my long ago released AR. Right year of construction.
>> Mike SLO CA
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:32:53 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> Ugh...I have a CK headset on my 1997 A/R which is probably suffering 
>>> from benign neglect...maybe I'm not the only one
>>>
>>> BikeFarmer Rivendell All-Rounder BIKE CHECK with bonus headset overhaul 
>>> and head tube facing
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysx21nddMmk=53s 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: AliExpress

[Patrick Moore]

For the 13-25 (Soma slick wheelset) I bought about 3 cassettes' worth of
 Miche cogs with extras for the high-use gears, and the outer/small is a
dedicated outer/small with its own spacer.

For the new 14-25 knobby cassette I bought 3 14-25 9 speeds from Peter
White ($28 each, not bad) and disassembled them to replace the spacers and
swap the 21 for a 20 and the 23 for a 22 and add a 28 after the 25. So the
14 outer is a proper Shimano outer with its own spacer (I guess that this
spacer is 2.5 mm? I used Miche 2 mm spacers for the rest of the cassette;
it all shifts perfectly [and the 7402 short cage climbs onto the 28 with no
fuss at all, with capacity to spare].

For a some-time-ago Ram I built a 15-25 9 speed cassette out of Miche
cogs*, and Miche made 15 and 14 t outers for Shimano with built-in spacers;
I think these are used among other places for junior racing.

But I've used all sorts of cogs for the outer position, sometimes just
cramming a regular inner-position cog into first place and just squeezing
it tightly in place with a lot of torque on the lockring. I've never had
one of these skip, but then I rarely use the outer and certainly not under
high torque.

*I got a lovely DA 7410 crank and wanted to use it in place of the TA 46/28
13-something, so I swapped out the 53/39 for a very compact 52/38 and built
the 15-25 to give me very similar gears with the much bigger rings.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 11:57 AM Garth  wrote:

> I ordered some things on Mar. 27th Patrick and they arrived April 3rd. The
> USPS label had a NJ address, but it said "not for returns". Then I noticed
> that label was placed over another label, so I peeled it back as best I
> could and sure enough, I saw an all Chinese printed label, the only English
> I saw was my name. So they must send these via air from China to NJ and
> relabel them with a USPS label. You being in NM they'll likely come from a
> West coast location upon arrival from China. I didn't pay anything extra
> for shipping either.
>
> When you make your own cassettes Patrick, what do you use for the small
> cog next to the lockring ? I see only the 11t and 12t serrated cogs are
> sold, but I know Miche and Shimano sell cassettes with 13,14 and 15t
> smallest cogs. Do you just tighten up against a regular cog without the
> serrations ?
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks again, Garth. I just ordered 10X 2.0, 2.18, and 2.35 mm Shimano
>> spacers for total of $30.20 with shipping and tax. AE did well with my
>> clumsily-placed orders of Shimano 10 sp cogs (instead of thinking ahead and
>> making 1 order for 3 different sizes I frenziedly hit "buy" 3 times and
>> paid extra for shipping); far easier than trying to get a LBS to find and
>> order 3 each of 3 cogs, and far cheaper than ordering from Europe, where
>> shipping costs seem to have tripled since COVID.
>>
>> Curious about AliExpress: search for a 22 t Shimano 10 sp cog and you get
>> 2 dozen offerings many of which give you a price of $0.83 and when you
>> click "yes please" they don't let you buy more than 1, or else the price
>> skyrockets to $2.72 -- still very cheap, of course.
>>
>> I received my shipments in a bit over a week with shipping for small
>> packages of 3 or 4 cogs under $7,  which leads me to wonder if they don't
>> have warehouses scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?
>>
>> At any rate, with spacers of 3 different widths I figure I'm well sorted
>> for any cassette build; as Garth very helpfully pointed out, Miche 10-sp
>> Shimano substitute cogs are 0.2 mm wider in the body (1.8 mm versus 1.6 mm
>> for Shimano cogs) tho' their teeth are 1.6 mm; which means that they take 2
>> mm instead of 2.35 mm spacers -- the total width is about 36 mm in either
>> case.
>>
>> But the cassette I built on Saturday with 10 1.6 mm cogs and 9 2 mm
>> spacers shifts just as well and identically to the other 10 sp cassetted
>> made from 10 Miche cogs and 9 2 mm spacers, without any derailleur
>> adjustment; so who knows. I did order 2.18 mm ones to split the difference.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> 

[RBW] Re: For all-rounder fandom doing spring overhauls

[Matthew P]

I watched the first 9 min. Thats pretty good for me! I'll return and skip 
through the 53 min

Nice bike! Really a joy to see.

Possible the headset was just a little tight? Loosen and bit plus re-grease 
it and done? I'll watch more to maybe find out :)

What prompted me to write: I like it "when threads collide" - his tall stem 
called upon that other "clem stem" thread going on.
His stem makes pulling it out difficult. It wouldn't be the case if he was 
using more of the length and cable lengths set at that.
Not a mistake, but we can see how that tall of a stem maybe causes a little 
difficulty for him (quill stem supposed to make adjustments easier, is one 
argument) plus the weight (FWIWeighs).

Great bike though. No complaints overall. I'll return to ingest more of the 
vid.

-Matthew P
San Diego - Kumeyaay Land

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:45:17 AM UTC-7 Mike Godwin wrote:

> Man, that looks like my long ago released AR. Right year of construction.
> Mike SLO CA
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:32:53 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>
>> Ugh...I have a CK headset on my 1997 A/R which is probably suffering from 
>> benign neglect...maybe I'm not the only one
>>
>> BikeFarmer Rivendell All-Rounder BIKE CHECK with bonus headset overhaul 
>> and head tube facing
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysx21nddMmk=53s 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: NBD - Purple Appaloosa

[Eric Marth]

Great post and run-down, Dan! The Appaloosa is lookin' good. 

On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:29:46 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:

> I also love this post!
>
> I was in C Cycle, home of the Bassi and noticed the Bloomfield.  That 
> caught me eye in your write up so I thought I would mention.
>
> That purple is amazing.  Enjoy!
>
> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 12:55:20 PM UTC-4 mrg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Great story and pics, thanks for sharing Dan. Congrats on the new bike. 
>> It's making me want to put rons bars back on the atlantis. 
>>
>> mike in austin tx
>>
>>
>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 2:44:46 AM UTC-5 Dan wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone, I’d like to share the story of my new purple Appaloosa. 
>>> I’ve gained a great deal of insight and enjoyment from reading this forum, 
>>> so it’s only right that I return the favour with a story of my own.
>>>
>>>
>>> From the first time I had heard that there was a company called 
>>> Rivendell, I knew that someday I’d be riding one. I’d avidly read Tolkein 
>>> in my childhood, so to hear that there were LotR themed bicycles - and that 
>>> they were so beautiful! - was just fascinating to me. The more I read about 
>>> the bikes and the philosophy, the more I was convinced. The final straw was 
>>> coming across ‘Calling In Sick Magazine’, aka the unofficial Rivendell fan 
>>> magazine. Reading the stories and looking at the photos of those people 
>>> riding on dry hills near the ocean, in terrain not to dissimilar to what I 
>>> ride here in Adelaide, Australia, gave me the impetus to make my dream a 
>>> reality.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, why did I choose an Appaloosa? To answer that, here is a little bit 
>>> about the other bikes in my stable…
>>>
>>>
>>> *Surly Straggler*
>>>
>>> This was my first ‘nice’ bike, the first bike I actually did any 
>>> research on before buying. I bought it to be my only bike and a do-it-all 
>>> bike, one that would be reliable and fun both day-to-day and on riding 
>>> anywhere and everywhere when I felt like adventure. In that, it’s met all 
>>> my expectations and then some. It’s set up with a rack and fenders as a 
>>> commuter, but over time I’ve tweaked it with wider, flared drops, fatter, 
>>> more supple rubber and lower gearing to suit my increasing desire to 
>>> explore. I’ve ridden this bike on two (metric) centuries, countless 
>>> suburban explorations, in the rain, on gravel, and on single track. It does 
>>> it all, more or less. I’ve never liked the looks of the stack of spacers I 
>>> needed to get the bars high, and the gearing is probably a bit high, though 
>>> that has made me stronger. Descending on the dirt, even with the flared 
>>> drops, is a whole-body workout. Side note - I actually wanted a Cross 
>>> Check, but they weren’t available to order in Australia when I bought this 
>>> bike.
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_0580.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>> *Bassi Bloomfield*
>>>
>>> It took a while to allow myself the thought that it was ok to have more 
>>> than one bike. I’d been browsing Blue Lug and watching Terry Barentsen 
>>> during the pandemic and fell in love with the idea of 650b, fat tyres, 
>>> upright bars and front baskets. The day after I’d decided that I could get 
>>> myself another bike, my local bike shop listed a whole bunch of Bassi 
>>> frames for sale. The clearance for wide 650b tyres and the flower head tube 
>>> graphic sold me instantly!
>>>
>>> This bike has been a revelation for me. There’s something about it - the 
>>> wide bars, the light frame, having no gears - that just clicks with me. 
>>> It’s like the bike is hard-wired into my brain. And the basket! It’s so 
>>> practical. More than that, though, this bike looks great. It’s a bike that 
>>> non-bike people complement me on. And it sold me on how good it feels to 
>>> ride upright.
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_8340.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>> *Why Appaloosa?*
>>>
>>> Which brings me to the Appaloosa. In the last two years I’d begun to the 
>>> explore the range of hills that flank Kaurna country / the Adelaide plains. 
>>> I like riding from my door, winding through the suburbs to a trail head, 
>>> then climbing and exploring the trails, going a little further each time. I 
>>> wanted a bike that would be fun to ride on the road but more comfortable 
>>> and capable off it than my other bikes. In short, I wanted a touring bike, 
>>> and the Appaloosa seemed like it. I liked that the 2.2” tyres looked like a 
>>> balance of speed and comfort, and the long chainstays promised to smooth 
>>> out bumps and make hair-raising off-road descents more palatable. Spoiler 
>>> alert: both of these things were true!
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ll spare you the story of sourcing the frame. I’ll only say that I 
>>> initially hesitated on the purple colour, which in hindsight was absolutely 
>>> ridiculous. Purple is my favourite colour and THIS purple is amazing. It’s 
>>> perfect.
>>>
>>>
>>> *First Impressions*
>>>
>>> I picked up the Appaloosa on Thursday after my bike shop kindly 

[RBW] Re: AliExpress

[Garth]

I ordered some things on Mar. 27th Patrick and they arrived April 3rd. The 
USPS label had a NJ address, but it said "not for returns". Then I noticed 
that label was placed over another label, so I peeled it back as best I 
could and sure enough, I saw an all Chinese printed label, the only English 
I saw was my name. So they must send these via air from China to NJ and 
relabel them with a USPS label. You being in NM they'll likely come from a 
West coast location upon arrival from China. I didn't pay anything extra 
for shipping either. 

When you make your own cassettes Patrick, what do you use for the small cog 
next to the lockring ? I see only the 11t and 12t serrated cogs are sold, 
but I know Miche and Shimano sell cassettes with 13,14 and 15t smallest 
cogs. Do you just tighten up against a regular cog without the serrations ? 
On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks again, Garth. I just ordered 10X 2.0, 2.18, and 2.35 mm Shimano 
> spacers for total of $30.20 with shipping and tax. AE did well with my 
> clumsily-placed orders of Shimano 10 sp cogs (instead of thinking ahead and 
> making 1 order for 3 different sizes I frenziedly hit "buy" 3 times and 
> paid extra for shipping); far easier than trying to get a LBS to find and 
> order 3 each of 3 cogs, and far cheaper than ordering from Europe, where 
> shipping costs seem to have tripled since COVID.
>
> Curious about AliExpress: search for a 22 t Shimano 10 sp cog and you get 
> 2 dozen offerings many of which give you a price of $0.83 and when you 
> click "yes please" they don't let you buy more than 1, or else the price 
> skyrockets to $2.72 -- still very cheap, of course.
>
> I received my shipments in a bit over a week with shipping for small 
> packages of 3 or 4 cogs under $7,  which leads me to wonder if they don't 
> have warehouses scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?
>
> At any rate, with spacers of 3 different widths I figure I'm well sorted 
> for any cassette build; as Garth very helpfully pointed out, Miche 10-sp 
> Shimano substitute cogs are 0.2 mm wider in the body (1.8 mm versus 1.6 mm 
> for Shimano cogs) tho' their teeth are 1.6 mm; which means that they take 2 
> mm instead of 2.35 mm spacers -- the total width is about 36 mm in either 
> case.
>
> But the cassette I built on Saturday with 10 1.6 mm cogs and 9 2 mm 
> spacers shifts just as well and identically to the other 10 sp cassetted 
> made from 10 Miche cogs and 9 2 mm spacers, without any derailleur 
> adjustment; so who knows. I did order 2.18 mm ones to split the difference.
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] AliExpress

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks again, Garth. I just ordered 10X 2.0, 2.18, and 2.35 mm Shimano
spacers for total of $30.20 with shipping and tax. AE did well with my
clumsily-placed orders of Shimano 10 sp cogs (instead of thinking ahead and
making 1 order for 3 different sizes I frenziedly hit "buy" 3 times and
paid extra for shipping); far easier than trying to get a LBS to find and
order 3 each of 3 cogs, and far cheaper than ordering from Europe, where
shipping costs seem to have tripled since COVID.

Curious about AliExpress: search for a 22 t Shimano 10 sp cog and you get 2
dozen offerings many of which give you a price of $0.83 and when you click
"yes please" they don't let you buy more than 1, or else the price
skyrockets to $2.72 -- still very cheap, of course.

I received my shipments in a bit over a week with shipping for small
packages of 3 or 4 cogs under $7,  which leads me to wonder if they don't
have warehouses scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?

At any rate, with spacers of 3 different widths I figure I'm well sorted
for any cassette build; as Garth very helpfully pointed out, Miche 10-sp
Shimano substitute cogs are 0.2 mm wider in the body (1.8 mm versus 1.6 mm
for Shimano cogs) tho' their teeth are 1.6 mm; which means that they take 2
mm instead of 2.35 mm spacers -- the total width is about 36 mm in either
case.

But the cassette I built on Saturday with 10 1.6 mm cogs and 9 2 mm spacers
shifts just as well and identically to the other 10 sp cassetted made from
10 Miche cogs and 9 2 mm spacers, without any derailleur adjustment; so who
knows. I did order 2.18 mm ones to split the difference.

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Re: For all-rounder fandom doing spring overhauls

[Mike Godwin]

Man, that looks like my long ago released AR. Right year of construction.
Mike SLO CA

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:32:53 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> Ugh...I have a CK headset on my 1997 A/R which is probably suffering from 
> benign neglect...maybe I'm not the only one
>
> BikeFarmer Rivendell All-Rounder BIKE CHECK with bonus headset overhaul 
> and head tube facing
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysx21nddMmk=53s 
>

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[RBW] For all-rounder fandom doing spring overhauls

[Ryan]

Ugh...I have a CK headset on my 1997 A/R which is probably suffering from 
benign neglect...maybe I'm not the only one

BikeFarmer Rivendell All-Rounder BIKE CHECK with bonus headset overhaul and 
head tube facing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysx21nddMmk=53s 

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Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Bill Lindsay]

I don't have a Clem and have never done a ground-up Clem build, but I did 
fix a friend's Large Clem Complete when his stock cockpit proved too flexy. 
 We slammed (slammed == run the stem at the lowest possible height) a 
Choco-Moose, and that was a night and day improvement.  I'd absolutely 
start with Choco-moose again if I was doing another Clem build for myself 
or anybody else.  

BL in EC

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:15:33 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> That is the stem (FW33) I ultimately chose as well.
>
> I agree the Albatross is a pretty decent bar for doing the forward 
> position because it doesn't come back as far as the others but to do it 
> properly you have to concede that that one of the positions won't be as 
> ideal. I use the loscos and they work very well too. If you set it really 
> far forward to account for the sweep back then the forward position is not 
> great to be in for long. If you set it to be comfortable in the forward 
> position the upright is sometimes not great. The losco and albatross 
> counter that pretty well. I never understood the multi position angle that 
> Riv takes but then tell you you need a really long stem to counter the 
> sweep. That puts the forward position way out there. So yeah if you want to 
> use both get one with less sweep and rise/ Thats been what has worked for 
> me.
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 11:19:05 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth, I tried a Nitto FW33 stem (120mm, too long for her 
>> imagine...) and it can be "slammed" in the head tube of this 45cm. I've got 
>> all of the spacers on the headset and have not/will not cut the steerer of 
>> the fork either. I need to measure the stem quill length.. 
>> https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-fw30-power-stem-dull.html
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:46:13 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> My experience on my Clem is quite the opposite of Garth’s. I do 
>>> understand that my situation may be unique but it is what it is. 45 degree 
>>> forward simply does not work for me. Bolt upright is the only way I can 
>>> achieve a no numb hands position. Going into the wind I will assume a more 
>>> forward leaning position but I cannot stay there very long. Numbness is 
>>> almost immediately. I ride my Clem for hours with virtually no weight on my 
>>> hands. And yes, my saddle is in the perfect vertical & horizontal position 
>>> relative to the bottom bracket. I have ridden in this position, Bosco’s 
>>> 2”-3” above saddle height, for 2 years & over 7,000 miles. No numb hands.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 5, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Garth  wrote:
>>>
>>> An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept 
>>> back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to 
>>> and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a 
>>> "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the 
>>> other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is 
>>> just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, 
>>> requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with 
>>> proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your 
>>> legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having 
>>> your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I 
>>> think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions 
>>> are desired. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the 
 smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 
 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very 
 far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that 
 with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to 
 get 
 it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go 
 short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars 
 that also have height. 

 The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. 
 Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)

 On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:

> This is a 2023 45cm Clem.
>
>  I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and 
> upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and 
> levers 
> further up and gives her options. 
> Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her 
> try the Vegan saddle as well.
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hi Igor,
>>
>> For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your 
>> friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell style

[Bill Lindsay]

The "buy a Milwaukee" is pretty solid advice.  Take a nice affordable 
steel, rim-brake, fat tire road bike, and offer a cheap cantilever post 
option, and in 15 stock colors.  Everybody should have a bike like that in 
their stable, and that's a pretty great value considering all those 
options.  Too bad it doesn't come in Patrick Moore's objectively perfect 
size of 60cm c-t-c seat tube and 56cm c-t-c top tube.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 8:27:49 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> For those of you too refined to read Bike Snob regularly, you might want 
> to make an exception for today's (Thursday's) post for Rivendell build 
> canons and style rules. Video included of new Riv owner anxious about 
> acceptance in the Rivendell World. [35-year-old narrator needs training in 
> public speaking.] [Recall when a schtick about Calvin's ~35-year-old father 
> was his mid-30s decrepitude and the absurdity of a middle-aged man riding a 
> bicycle in the wind, rain, and snow. "Time just gets away from us."]
>
> This was fun:
>
> And finally, your Rivendell bicycle should feature a highly 
> improvisational handlebar treatment:
>
> Basically it’s like the Velominati on acid.
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Johnny Alien]

That is the stem (FW33) I ultimately chose as well.

I agree the Albatross is a pretty decent bar for doing the forward position 
because it doesn't come back as far as the others but to do it properly you 
have to concede that that one of the positions won't be as ideal. I use the 
loscos and they work very well too. If you set it really far forward to 
account for the sweep back then the forward position is not great to be in 
for long. If you set it to be comfortable in the forward position the 
upright is sometimes not great. The losco and albatross counter that pretty 
well. I never understood the multi position angle that Riv takes but then 
tell you you need a really long stem to counter the sweep. That puts the 
forward position way out there. So yeah if you want to use both get one 
with less sweep and rise/ Thats been what has worked for me.

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 11:19:05 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:

> For what it's worth, I tried a Nitto FW33 stem (120mm, too long for her 
> imagine...) and it can be "slammed" in the head tube of this 45cm. I've got 
> all of the spacers on the headset and have not/will not cut the steerer of 
> the fork either. I need to measure the stem quill length.. 
> https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-fw30-power-stem-dull.html
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:46:13 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My experience on my Clem is quite the opposite of Garth’s. I do 
>> understand that my situation may be unique but it is what it is. 45 degree 
>> forward simply does not work for me. Bolt upright is the only way I can 
>> achieve a no numb hands position. Going into the wind I will assume a more 
>> forward leaning position but I cannot stay there very long. Numbness is 
>> almost immediately. I ride my Clem for hours with virtually no weight on my 
>> hands. And yes, my saddle is in the perfect vertical & horizontal position 
>> relative to the bottom bracket. I have ridden in this position, Bosco’s 
>> 2”-3” above saddle height, for 2 years & over 7,000 miles. No numb hands.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 5, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Garth  wrote:
>>
>> An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept 
>> back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to 
>> and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a 
>> "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the 
>> other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is 
>> just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, 
>> requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with 
>> proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your 
>> legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having 
>> your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I 
>> think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions 
>> are desired. 
>>
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the 
>>> smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 
>>> 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very 
>>> far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that 
>>> with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get 
>>> it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go 
>>> short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars 
>>> that also have height. 
>>>
>>> The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. 
>>> Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:
>>>
 This is a 2023 45cm Clem.

  I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and 
 upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers 
 further up and gives her options. 
 Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her 
 try the Vegan saddle as well.

 On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:

> Hi Igor,
>
> For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your 
> friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" 
> right 
> answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors 
> (I 
> know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the 
> groundwork for my suggestions). 
> I'd ask the following questions:
>
>- What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes 
>(less reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. 
>- What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, 
>mountain biking? 
>- How does the rider like to be positioned? 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell style

[Mathias Steiner]

That scouring-pad picture is funny.

There is an earnestness at Rivendell that permeates everything they do, 
particularly the bad ideas. It's all-in, all the time, and I find it 
endearing. 

And because I like Grant's writing, and a lot of his ideas make sense, for  
a while there I bought into the gospel. 

After stubbing my toe once or twice on some nonsense, I've learned to pay 
attention to what they Rivendell preaches, but then do some vetting of my 
own. Grant P has my riding better, and I'm grateful for that.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a bar wrap to finish in the plebeian style.

cheers -mathias
On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:50:33 AM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> This is from a while ago, but it’s probably my favorite joke in regards to 
> that weirdo grip wrap style that GP and Riv have come to be known for:
>

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Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Igor]

For what it's worth, I tried a Nitto FW33 stem (120mm, too long for her 
imagine...) and it can be "slammed" in the head tube of this 45cm. I've got 
all of the spacers on the headset and have not/will not cut the steerer of 
the fork either. I need to measure the stem quill 
length.. https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-fw30-power-stem-dull.html

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:46:13 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> My experience on my Clem is quite the opposite of Garth’s. I do understand 
> that my situation may be unique but it is what it is. 45 degree forward 
> simply does not work for me. Bolt upright is the only way I can achieve a 
> no numb hands position. Going into the wind I will assume a more forward 
> leaning position but I cannot stay there very long. Numbness is almost 
> immediately. I ride my Clem for hours with virtually no weight on my hands. 
> And yes, my saddle is in the perfect vertical & horizontal position 
> relative to the bottom bracket. I have ridden in this position, Bosco’s 
> 2”-3” above saddle height, for 2 years & over 7,000 miles. No numb hands.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 5, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Garth  wrote:
>
> An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept 
> back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to 
> and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a 
> "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the 
> other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is 
> just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, 
> requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with 
> proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your 
> legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having 
> your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I 
> think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions 
> are desired. 
>
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the 
>> smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 
>> 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very 
>> far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that 
>> with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get 
>> it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go 
>> short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars 
>> that also have height. 
>>
>> The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. 
>> Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:
>>
>>> This is a 2023 45cm Clem.
>>>
>>>  I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and 
>>> upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers 
>>> further up and gives her options. 
>>> Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her try 
>>> the Vegan saddle as well.
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:
>>>
 Hi Igor,

 For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your 
 friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" 
 right 
 answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors 
 (I 
 know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the 
 groundwork for my suggestions). 
 I'd ask the following questions:

- What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less 
reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. 
- What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, 
mountain biking? 
- How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy? 
Upright and comfy? 
- What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long 
legs, short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?
- Are there aesthetic considerations? 
- Are there cost considerations?

 For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for 
 reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but 
 still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux 
 at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My 
 wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up 
 too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad 
 bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose 
 (67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed 
 and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer 
 rides (on longer 

Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Richard Rose]

My experience on my Clem is quite the opposite of Garth’s. I do understand that my situation may be unique but it is what it is. 45 degree forward simply does not work for me. Bolt upright is the only way I can achieve a no numb hands position. Going into the wind I will assume a more forward leaning position but I cannot stay there very long. Numbness is almost immediately. I ride my Clem for hours with virtually no weight on my hands. And yes, my saddle is in the perfect vertical & horizontal position relative to the bottom bracket. I have ridden in this position, Bosco’s 2”-3” above saddle height, for 2 years & over 7,000 miles. No numb hands.Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 5, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Garth  wrote:An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions are desired. On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars that also have height. The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:This is a 2023 45cm Clem. I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers further up and gives her options. Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her try the Vegan saddle as well.On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:Hi Igor,For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" right answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors (I know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the groundwork for my suggestions). I'd ask the following questions:What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, mountain biking? How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy? Upright and comfy? What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long legs, short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?Are there aesthetic considerations? Are there cost considerations?For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose (67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer rides (on longer rides, I want 45-60° sweep). I tried Boscos for a minute (I think it was the 54cm that came stock on my wife's Clem), but I felt almost cartoonishly upright and didn't feel connected enough with the bike. For your rider, at 5'2", I'm guessing you have a newer (post 2019 geo changes) Clem and it's likely they'll want swept back bars of some sort. I think the Albatross (or Soma Oxford) are perfect for the Clem  - right rise, sweep, width, and good looking to boot. The Toscos, like I mentioned, are great, but I'd opt for the 55cm model probably in your rider's case. Re: the Boscos, I'm a bit taller than your rider, so maybe Boscos would do the trick in their case. Lastly, if they don't want a relaxed position, you've got a billion options of flat or riser bars with minimal sweep, but I won't bother with recs. cheers,John 

Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Kim H.]

@Igor -

If you are interested in Honjo metal fenders on her bike, the Flat 65s'
work great with my 27.5x2.25mm Schwalbe Racing Ralph's on my 2023 52cm Clem.

Furthermore,  I would like to suggest for pedals a pair of MKS Lambda
pedals with pedal extensions with a bag of spike pegs. Rivendell Bicycle
Works sells both of these.

Kim Hetzel.



Kim Hetzel.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024, 6:24 AM Garth  wrote:

> An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept
> back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to
> and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a
> "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the
> other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is
> just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far,
> requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with
> proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your
> legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having
> your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I
> think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions
> are desired.
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the
>> smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the
>> 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very
>> far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that
>> with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get
>> it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go
>> short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars
>> that also have height.
>>
>> The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix.
>> Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:
>>
>>> This is a 2023 45cm Clem.
>>>
>>>  I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and
>>> upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers
>>> further up and gives her options.
>>> Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her try
>>> the Vegan saddle as well.
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:
>>>
 Hi Igor,

 For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your
 friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" right
 answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors (I
 know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the
 groundwork for my suggestions).
 I'd ask the following questions:

- What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less
reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models.
- What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring,
mountain biking?
- How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy?
Upright and comfy?
- What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long
legs, short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?
- Are there aesthetic considerations?
- Are there cost considerations?

 For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for
 reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but
 still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux
 at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My
 wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up
 too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad
 bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose
 (67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed
 and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer
 rides (on longer rides, I want 45-60° sweep). I tried Boscos for a minute
 (I think it was the 54cm that came stock on my wife's Clem), but I felt
 almost cartoonishly upright and didn't feel connected enough with the bike.

 For your rider, at 5'2", I'm guessing you have a newer (post 2019 geo
 changes) Clem and it's likely they'll want swept back bars of some sort. I
 think the Albatross (or Soma Oxford) are perfect for the Clem  - right
 rise, sweep, width, and good looking to boot. The Toscos, like I mentioned,
 are great, but I'd opt for the 55cm model probably in your rider's case.
 Re: the Boscos, I'm a bit taller than your rider, so maybe Boscos would do
 the trick in their case. Lastly, if they don't want a relaxed position,
 you've got a billion options of flat or riser bars with 

Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Richard Rose]

Hmm.., I’ve not run into this problem on my 52 Clem. I do run my FacePlater quite high - 14 of the 16cm available exposed. But, I am able to drop it down a lot which I discovered while searching for the perfect height. I do concede that might not be the case with a 45 frame. Going with a shorter quill would cause me to even more highly recommend the Bosco bar. You almost cannot get the bars too high on a Clem. Although that could just be my 69 year old self talking.:)Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 5, 2024, at 9:02 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars that also have height. The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:This is a 2023 45cm Clem. I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers further up and gives her options. Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her try the Vegan saddle as well.On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:Hi Igor,For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" right answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors (I know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the groundwork for my suggestions). I'd ask the following questions:What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, mountain biking? How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy? Upright and comfy? What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long legs, short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?Are there aesthetic considerations? Are there cost considerations?For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose (67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer rides (on longer rides, I want 45-60° sweep). I tried Boscos for a minute (I think it was the 54cm that came stock on my wife's Clem), but I felt almost cartoonishly upright and didn't feel connected enough with the bike. For your rider, at 5'2", I'm guessing you have a newer (post 2019 geo changes) Clem and it's likely they'll want swept back bars of some sort. I think the Albatross (or Soma Oxford) are perfect for the Clem  - right rise, sweep, width, and good looking to boot. The Toscos, like I mentioned, are great, but I'd opt for the 55cm model probably in your rider's case. Re: the Boscos, I'm a bit taller than your rider, so maybe Boscos would do the trick in their case. Lastly, if they don't want a relaxed position, you've got a billion options of flat or riser bars with minimal sweep, but I won't bother with recs. cheers,John (outside Fontainebleau)On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 6:36:58 AM UTC+2 Kim H. wrote:@Igor -I have a couple of Terry women's saddles that are lightly used to sell, if you are interested for your lady friend.https://www.terrybicycles.com/Cite-X-Gel-Italiahttps://www.terrybicycles.com/Liberator-XContact me off this group for more details and pictures.Kim Hetzel. On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 7:52:34 PM UTC-7 Richard Rose wrote:A lot of nice bars to choose from. That said, the Bosco is perfect. The extra rise is great as it results in less stem exposed than with the Tosco. I suggest one of the three FacePlater stems makes life so much easier & the older tig welded one is currently on sale, I think. But, without the frame & handlebar at hand it’s guesswork at best regarding stem length. I am 5’10”, ride a 52 Clem with Bosco & 135 FacePlater. I do not know how much shorter the reach is on the 45, but I would guess a stem closer to 70-80? Call Riv & ask them, they give excellent advice. Or, try to get your hands n a few different (cheap) stems to try?Sent 

Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

[Ted Durant]

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 3:17:24 AM UTC-5 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

As Snoopy said long ago: "Some of us prefer to sacrifice comfort for style".

I’m not comfortable riding a bike with an ugly derailer so I don’t have 
conflicting objectives.
:-)

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Garth]

An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept back 
style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to and 
just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a 
"racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the 
other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is 
just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, 
requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with 
proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your 
legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having 
your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I 
think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions 
are desired. 

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the smaller 
> sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 50-52 
> sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very far in 
> and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that with a 
> bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get it 
> lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go short 
> even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars that 
> also have height. 
>
> The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. 
> Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:
>
>> This is a 2023 45cm Clem.
>>
>>  I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and 
>> upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers 
>> further up and gives her options. 
>> Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her try 
>> the Vegan saddle as well.
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Igor,
>>>
>>> For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your 
>>> friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" right 
>>> answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors (I 
>>> know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the 
>>> groundwork for my suggestions). 
>>> I'd ask the following questions:
>>>
>>>- What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less 
>>>reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. 
>>>- What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, 
>>>mountain biking? 
>>>- How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy? 
>>>Upright and comfy? 
>>>- What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long legs, 
>>>short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?
>>>- Are there aesthetic considerations? 
>>>- Are there cost considerations?
>>>
>>> For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for 
>>> reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but 
>>> still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux 
>>> at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My 
>>> wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up 
>>> too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad 
>>> bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose 
>>> (67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed 
>>> and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer 
>>> rides (on longer rides, I want 45-60° sweep). I tried Boscos for a minute 
>>> (I think it was the 54cm that came stock on my wife's Clem), but I felt 
>>> almost cartoonishly upright and didn't feel connected enough with the bike. 
>>>
>>> For your rider, at 5'2", I'm guessing you have a newer (post 2019 geo 
>>> changes) Clem and it's likely they'll want swept back bars of some sort. I 
>>> think the Albatross (or Soma Oxford) are perfect for the Clem  - right 
>>> rise, sweep, width, and good looking to boot. The Toscos, like I mentioned, 
>>> are great, but I'd opt for the 55cm model probably in your rider's case. 
>>> Re: the Boscos, I'm a bit taller than your rider, so maybe Boscos would do 
>>> the trick in their case. Lastly, if they don't want a relaxed position, 
>>> you've got a billion options of flat or riser bars with minimal sweep, but 
>>> I won't bother with recs. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> John (outside Fontainebleau)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 6:36:58 AM UTC+2 Kim H. wrote:
>>>
 @Igor -
 I have a couple of Terry women's saddles that are lightly used to sell, 
 if you are interested for your lady friend.

 https://www.terrybicycles.com/Cite-X-Gel-Italia

 https://www.terrybicycles.com/Liberator-X

Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Johnny Alien]

Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the smaller 
sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 50-52 
sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very far in 
and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that with a 
bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get it 
lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go short 
even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars that 
also have height. 

The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. 
Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:

> This is a 2023 45cm Clem.
>
>  I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and upright. 
> Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers further 
> up and gives her options. 
> Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her try 
> the Vegan saddle as well.
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hi Igor,
>>
>> For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your 
>> friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" right 
>> answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors (I 
>> know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the 
>> groundwork for my suggestions). 
>> I'd ask the following questions:
>>
>>- What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less 
>>reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. 
>>- What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, 
>>mountain biking? 
>>- How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy? 
>>Upright and comfy? 
>>- What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long legs, 
>>short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?
>>- Are there aesthetic considerations? 
>>- Are there cost considerations?
>>
>> For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for 
>> reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but 
>> still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux 
>> at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My 
>> wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up 
>> too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad 
>> bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose 
>> (67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed 
>> and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer 
>> rides (on longer rides, I want 45-60° sweep). I tried Boscos for a minute 
>> (I think it was the 54cm that came stock on my wife's Clem), but I felt 
>> almost cartoonishly upright and didn't feel connected enough with the bike. 
>>
>> For your rider, at 5'2", I'm guessing you have a newer (post 2019 geo 
>> changes) Clem and it's likely they'll want swept back bars of some sort. I 
>> think the Albatross (or Soma Oxford) are perfect for the Clem  - right 
>> rise, sweep, width, and good looking to boot. The Toscos, like I mentioned, 
>> are great, but I'd opt for the 55cm model probably in your rider's case. 
>> Re: the Boscos, I'm a bit taller than your rider, so maybe Boscos would do 
>> the trick in their case. Lastly, if they don't want a relaxed position, 
>> you've got a billion options of flat or riser bars with minimal sweep, but 
>> I won't bother with recs. 
>>
>>
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> John (outside Fontainebleau)
>>
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 6:36:58 AM UTC+2 Kim H. wrote:
>>
>>> @Igor -
>>> I have a couple of Terry women's saddles that are lightly used to sell, 
>>> if you are interested for your lady friend.
>>>
>>> https://www.terrybicycles.com/Cite-X-Gel-Italia
>>>
>>> https://www.terrybicycles.com/Liberator-X
>>>
>>> Contact me off this group for more details and pictures.
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 7:52:34 PM UTC-7 Richard Rose wrote:
>>>
 A lot of nice bars to choose from. That said, the Bosco is perfect. The 
 extra rise is great as it results in less stem exposed than with the 
 Tosco. 
 I suggest one of the three FacePlater stems makes life so much easier & 
 the 
 older tig welded one is currently on sale, I think. But, without the frame 
 & handlebar at hand it’s guesswork at best regarding stem length. I am 
 5’10”, ride a 52 Clem with Bosco & 135 FacePlater. I do not know how much 
 shorter the reach is on the 45, but I would guess a stem closer to 70-80? 
 Call Riv & ask them, they give excellent advice. Or, try to get your hands 
 n a few different (cheap) stems to try?
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 4, 2024, at 9:28 PM, Igor  wrote:

 Any suggestions or ways to "know" what stem or 

Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Igor]

This is a 2023 45cm Clem.

 I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and upright. 
Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers further 
up and gives her options. 
Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her try 
the Vegan saddle as well.

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:06:06 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:

> Hi Igor,
>
> For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your 
> friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" right 
> answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors (I 
> know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the 
> groundwork for my suggestions). 
> I'd ask the following questions:
>
>- What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less 
>reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. 
>- What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, 
>mountain biking? 
>- How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy? 
>Upright and comfy? 
>- What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long legs, 
>short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?
>- Are there aesthetic considerations? 
>- Are there cost considerations?
>
> For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for 
> reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but 
> still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux 
> at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My 
> wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up 
> too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad 
> bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose 
> (67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed 
> and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer 
> rides (on longer rides, I want 45-60° sweep). I tried Boscos for a minute 
> (I think it was the 54cm that came stock on my wife's Clem), but I felt 
> almost cartoonishly upright and didn't feel connected enough with the bike. 
>
> For your rider, at 5'2", I'm guessing you have a newer (post 2019 geo 
> changes) Clem and it's likely they'll want swept back bars of some sort. I 
> think the Albatross (or Soma Oxford) are perfect for the Clem  - right 
> rise, sweep, width, and good looking to boot. The Toscos, like I mentioned, 
> are great, but I'd opt for the 55cm model probably in your rider's case. 
> Re: the Boscos, I'm a bit taller than your rider, so maybe Boscos would do 
> the trick in their case. Lastly, if they don't want a relaxed position, 
> you've got a billion options of flat or riser bars with minimal sweep, but 
> I won't bother with recs. 
>
>
>
> cheers,
>
> John (outside Fontainebleau)
>
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 6:36:58 AM UTC+2 Kim H. wrote:
>
>> @Igor -
>> I have a couple of Terry women's saddles that are lightly used to sell, 
>> if you are interested for your lady friend.
>>
>> https://www.terrybicycles.com/Cite-X-Gel-Italia
>>
>> https://www.terrybicycles.com/Liberator-X
>>
>> Contact me off this group for more details and pictures.
>>
>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>
>> On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 7:52:34 PM UTC-7 Richard Rose wrote:
>>
>>> A lot of nice bars to choose from. That said, the Bosco is perfect. The 
>>> extra rise is great as it results in less stem exposed than with the Tosco. 
>>> I suggest one of the three FacePlater stems makes life so much easier & the 
>>> older tig welded one is currently on sale, I think. But, without the frame 
>>> & handlebar at hand it’s guesswork at best regarding stem length. I am 
>>> 5’10”, ride a 52 Clem with Bosco & 135 FacePlater. I do not know how much 
>>> shorter the reach is on the 45, but I would guess a stem closer to 70-80? 
>>> Call Riv & ask them, they give excellent advice. Or, try to get your hands 
>>> n a few different (cheap) stems to try?
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 4, 2024, at 9:28 PM, Igor  wrote:
>>>
>>> Any suggestions or ways to "know" what stem or bars to use? Not sure 
>>> where to begin. 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8d3dff24-49ad-4b4f-bc5c-7baf337495a3n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell style

[Doug H.]

I enjoy Bike Snob and the "Just Kidding" boat  photo never fails to make me 
chuckle. Eben's irreverent sense of humor is right up my alley. Not kidding.
Doug

On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 11:27:49 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> For those of you too refined to read Bike Snob regularly, you might want 
> to make an exception for today's (Thursday's) post for Rivendell build 
> canons and style rules. Video included of new Riv owner anxious about 
> acceptance in the Rivendell World. [35-year-old narrator needs training in 
> public speaking.] [Recall when a schtick about Calvin's ~35-year-old father 
> was his mid-30s decrepitude and the absurdity of a middle-aged man riding a 
> bicycle in the wind, rain, and snow. "Time just gets away from us."]
>
> This was fun:
>
> And finally, your Rivendell bicycle should feature a highly 
> improvisational handlebar treatment:
>
> Basically it’s like the Velominati on acid.
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[John Johnson]

Hi Igor,

For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your 
friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" right 
answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors (I 
know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the 
groundwork for my suggestions). 
I'd ask the following questions:

   - What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less 
   reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. 
   - What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, mountain 
   biking? 
   - How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy? Upright 
   and comfy? 
   - What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long legs, 
   short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?
   - Are there aesthetic considerations? 
   - Are there cost considerations?

For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for 
reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but 
still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux 
at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My 
wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up 
too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad 
bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose 
(67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed 
and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer 
rides (on longer rides, I want 45-60° sweep). I tried Boscos for a minute 
(I think it was the 54cm that came stock on my wife's Clem), but I felt 
almost cartoonishly upright and didn't feel connected enough with the bike. 

For your rider, at 5'2", I'm guessing you have a newer (post 2019 geo 
changes) Clem and it's likely they'll want swept back bars of some sort. I 
think the Albatross (or Soma Oxford) are perfect for the Clem  - right 
rise, sweep, width, and good looking to boot. The Toscos, like I mentioned, 
are great, but I'd opt for the 55cm model probably in your rider's case. 
Re: the Boscos, I'm a bit taller than your rider, so maybe Boscos would do 
the trick in their case. Lastly, if they don't want a relaxed position, 
you've got a billion options of flat or riser bars with minimal sweep, but 
I won't bother with recs. 



cheers,

John (outside Fontainebleau)


On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 6:36:58 AM UTC+2 Kim H. wrote:

> @Igor -
> I have a couple of Terry women's saddles that are lightly used to sell, if 
> you are interested for your lady friend.
>
> https://www.terrybicycles.com/Cite-X-Gel-Italia
>
> https://www.terrybicycles.com/Liberator-X
>
> Contact me off this group for more details and pictures.
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
> On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 7:52:34 PM UTC-7 Richard Rose wrote:
>
>> A lot of nice bars to choose from. That said, the Bosco is perfect. The 
>> extra rise is great as it results in less stem exposed than with the Tosco. 
>> I suggest one of the three FacePlater stems makes life so much easier & the 
>> older tig welded one is currently on sale, I think. But, without the frame 
>> & handlebar at hand it’s guesswork at best regarding stem length. I am 
>> 5’10”, ride a 52 Clem with Bosco & 135 FacePlater. I do not know how much 
>> shorter the reach is on the 45, but I would guess a stem closer to 70-80? 
>> Call Riv & ask them, they give excellent advice. Or, try to get your hands 
>> n a few different (cheap) stems to try?
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 4, 2024, at 9:28 PM, Igor  wrote:
>>
>> Any suggestions or ways to "know" what stem or bars to use? Not sure 
>> where to begin. 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8d3dff24-49ad-4b4f-bc5c-7baf337495a3n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

[Peter Adler]

As Snoopy said long ago: "Some of us prefer to sacrifice comfort for style".

Peter "guilty more often than I care to admit" Adler
Berkeley, California/USA

On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 4:09:49 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

I admire how the entire build hinges on a rear derailleur that looks good, 
first and foremost, and everything else will fall into place after that. 
 ;-)

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