from:"ted"


> On Apr 22, 2024, at 8:35 PM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
> 
> Him: I know how this ends. It ends with the Annual Bike Purchase of the Last 
> Bike I’ll Ever Need.
> 

Doesn’t he know about the n+1 theory of bicycles?

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 8:26 PM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
> 
> Tony, I swooned. Actually swooned. Gorgeous, gorgeous.
> 
It’s even better in person.

> But it was the best ride. Did we have wind? Yes. But somehow it was great and 
> energizing and we just killed it. I had done an intense upper body lifting 
> session this morning and still it was great and not draining!
> 

Nice. Double sessions. 

> There were men I don’t know on the ride tonight, so of course I got comments. 
> One of them said, “I hope you never get a road bike.”

The old back handed compliment. Well, you might pick up a little speed if 
you’re at the front of the peloton going into the wind, but in the pack or 
downwind I suspect you’ll find you’re riding the same speed at about the same 
effort. I’m looking forward to the ride report where you say you felt good at 
the front of the pack, kept your head down, set the internal metronome, and 
ticked away the miles, and when you sat up you realized there was nobody behind 
you.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

In the site instructions it says 10psi at a time. On the box it says 20.

I was nowhere near 10psi when they failed.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 2:17 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> Did you pay attention to the instructions on the box?  Particularly with 
> respect to their warning that you want to pump it up slowly so the material 
> has a chance to stretch?  I read that as a "no compressors" warning.  I 
> always use my floor pump anyway, because that's the gauge I trust.  I only 
> use my compressor to seat tubeless tires.  
> 

Silca floor pump. Started leaking on the 3rd or 4th stroke. And they don’t say 
to pump it up slowly, they say to inflate it 20psi at a time. I was nowhere 
near 20 psi.


Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

Yeah, I was going to call it that but thought people would consider me weird. 
;-)

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 1:31 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> That little ring on mine is not glued down.  It reminds me of a "Shakespeare 
> collar", properly called a ruff:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruff_(clothing)
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> 
> 
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>>> On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this 
>>> morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third 
>>> will serve as a spare. 
>> 
>> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece 
>> of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, 
>> that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the 
>> tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably 
>> would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that 
>> collar attached or flapping around?
>> 
>> 
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this 
> morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third 
> will serve as a spare. 

Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece of 
plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, that 
seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the tube - 
it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably would have 
prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that collar 
attached or flapping around?

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 7:02:25 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

FYI - The RH instructions say to inflate slowly and immediately deflate the 
tubes completely after the tire pops into position, then reinflate.


Well, I put them on my Riv Road today, was very careful with the 
installation, and had the same result. One of the tubes broke at the valve 
stem immediately on inflation in the tire. The rims are narrow Fir, and the 
tires are a pretty tight fit. I used levers to remove the tire but was able 
to reinstall without levers. New tires with only a few rides on them.

So, I've needed 6 tubes to get 4 tires going. That makes the economics a 
little harder to justify. It also makes carrying a new one as a spare a bit 
of Russian roulette.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

> On Apr 21, 2024, at 7:59 PM, RichS  wrote:
> 
> Leah, one more thought building on the Sam, Homer, Ram, etc. suggestions. The 
> periwinkle color samples Will showed in the Friday Riv newsletter strikes me 
> as a color that is right in your wheelhouse. I know one of the country bikes 
> is not at the top of your wanted list, but I believe you could build a 
> reasonably light (23-24lbs.?), zippy periwinkle Sam rolling on RH or 
> Continental 5000 32mm tires and you'd be at the front!
> 

FWIW, I am very happy with my 2 Sams as all-rounder road and trail bikes. I 
have them set up, position-wise, very much like my “road” bikes and with Noodle 
bars. I wouldn’t hesitate to take them on a group ride, though I probably 
wouldn’t try to hang with the 25mph club.  

One thing to be aware of as you compare options is that Grant likes shallow 
seat tube angles these days. That makes it a little trickier to compare the 
handlebar reach with other bikes. (Don’t get me started on the bike companies 
that are now publishing “effective seat tube angle”.) I decided to set up my 
Sams with a bit less reach than my other bikes, so the back of the handlebars 
is just beyond my fingertips, rather than an inch or two. I don’t think you 
need to go all the way down to 32mm tires to make it zippy. I have 48’s on mine 
and that might be overkill, but I bet 38’s would be super fast and agile. 
(Decreasing tire size reduces both pneumatic and geometric trail and it reduces 
rotational inertia, all of which makes a bike feel “zippier”.)

I saw the Periwinkle sample and am stupidly tempted to get a third Sam.

But I also understand the curiosity about a true road bike. My Heron and Riv 
Road and Waterford ST-22 have around 33,000 kms on them since 2017.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 6:00:27 PM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:

I'd be curious if you came off butyl or latex tubes prior? guess I'm just
not that convinced the TPUs are worth the extra price over latex (at least
the price of the RH versions)..

Great question, and one I'd intended to answer in my review, but then
forgot. I've ridden all my RH 32mm tires with Schwalbe SV16 tubes (and
occasionally another 28-32mm tube that's been pressed into emergency
service). I have not used latex tubes in quite a while. I used them on my
Riv Road with some skinny tires and had two pinch flats on one group ride.
Haven't used them since. Soon I will try TPU on my Breadwinner, which is
650x48B. They'll also go on my Heron (after it's back from the spa) and my
Riv Road, both of which also ride on Stampede Pass tires.

The big advantage of TPU over latex, in theory, is the air retention. I'll
know how that's going in a couple of days.

IMO, the question is whether TPUs are worth the substantial price premium
over butyl. I've just "invested" a pretty big chunk of money into TPU tubes
for 4 bikes. In terms of ride quality, my first impression is quite
positive. TBD on the durability and flat-resistance.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 4:07:47 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
wrote:

Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says
they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands
on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions?

Great question. Racers and wannabe racers as I noted set up their bikes
with a big drop from saddle to bars and a shorter horizontal reach to the
bars. And they spend almost all their time on the hoods. I roam all over
the bars. Today's 100km somewhat hilly, fairly windy ride was a great
example. Heading out into the wind I spent a fair amount of time on the
drops and hoods, but I was not riding at a hard effort (averaged around
22kph going out). Getting into the hills was a lot more time on the tops
and the hoods, with a few standing climbs, working harder on the hills that
got up to 15%. Coming home with a tail wind was a fair amount of time on
the top curves, not riding too hard, enjoying the tail wind motor assist
(and the net down hill).

Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of the
bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar
offers?

My experience has been that's not a great alternative. The wrist angles
tend to be weird.

I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. It
felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or
shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.

Understood! That's one reason why some people set up drop bars with
cyclocross-inspired interrupter brake levers under the tops. I never have
felt the need for that on road rides. If my hands are on the tops, I'm
probably not going fast enough to need an immediate stop.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

I just received a box of tubes that I ordered from Rene Herse, so here's my
1-ride review.

Bike and rider weight is about 70kg/150lbs.

First impression ... they are crazy small and light. Clear plastic tubes
with shiny metal valve stems and "Rene Herse blue" caps - nice touch!
Unfolding them they seem fragile, especially the valve stem junction.

I ordered some 700x20-32 and 650x45-68. I installed the 700c tubes on my
Waterford, which has 32mm Stampede Pass EL tires on DT TK-540 rims with
Velox rim tape. The rear tire is fairly new and had a bit over 500km on it.
It had been reinstalled a few times (March is a bad time for flats in WI!).
The front tire is a year old, probably has 3-4000km on it. Both tires come
off the rim and go back on without tire levers. The tubes are a tight fit
on the rim and have to be stretched a bit to get around the rim. The tires
popped right back on, and I inflated to 60 psi to seat the beads, then
backed off to 45psi. On the second wheel the tube/stem interface
immediately cracked and I had to grab a 3rd tube. I don't know if that was
a bad tube or user error. No tire lever, but it's possible I didn't push
the stem up into the tire enough to ensure the tube wasn't trapped by the
bead. Given how fragile they feel, it seems it won't take much to cause
that to happen.

First subjective observation - I can really feel the weight reduction
handling the wheels. Noticeably less inertia around the perimeter.

First ride was 100km of road riding across the north side of Milwaukee
(urban riding) through the western suburbs and exurbs to some rural roads
around Holy Hill. At 900m of climbing, it's a pretty hilly ride but not
crazy. Some of the road surfaces are beautiful, freshly paved goodness.
Others are, well, lunar. I often take my Breadwinner out there for its 48mm
tires.

Immediate second subjective observation is that the tires sound different.
There's a "whoosh whoosh" that sounds like nice tubulars. Third subjective
observation is that the bumps feel and sound different, more "thwip thwhip"
than "thump thump". Third subjective observation is that it FEELS like the
tires return more energy from deflection, whether from bumps or,
especially, when swerving suddenly to avoid an obstacle or making a quick
acceleration. I have no idea if there really is less hysteresis loss, but
it feels that way.

No flats today, but clear dry roads, even crossing the north side of the
city, aren't usually an issue.

So, I very much like the lightness and the feel of them, and the light blue
stem caps are a nice touch that will look good on most of my bikes. I'm
concerned about the fragility of the valve stem interface. No data or
anecdotes, yet, on durability and ease of repair.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 1:12:20 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
wrote:

I am, right now, leaning toward a Gallup bike but will keep reading and
learning. And right now, I’m heading out to do Tabatas training. I had to
look it up. Promises to be the most miserable 4 minutes of my day.

Wow, first we hear you are road bike curious, now you are doing tabata
workouts. Leah is going super hard core on us.

My 2 cents worth ... "road bike", as opposed to what you currently ride and
love, is first and foremost about riding position. FWIW, my recommendation
is to skip past Albastache and Mustache and go straight to drop bars. Start
with them relatively high and close, so when your hands are on the tops you
feel like your back is relaxed and comfy. Bernard Hinault, I think, said
you should feel like you're playing piano on the tops. You then have the
curves on top, where your hands are a bit wider apart and slightly forward,
and your back should still be comfy. Then you go forward to the brake
hoods. Now you should feel like you're more forward than you would be on
your current bikes. But, if you're riding at a hard enough effort (we're
not talking super hard here), the force on the pedals should be carrying
enough of your weight that you're not having to hold yourself up on your
hands. Next you go below the brake hoods to the farthest forward part of
the drops. This is the speedy aero position. You won't have a low, flat
back here until you've lowered your stem/bars quite a bit. But you should
have a flat back and you should be putting a fair amount of force into the
pedals. Finally, there are the flat parts of the drops, with your hands
back a bit closer to you, which are a "cruising" location for me (and right
next to my bar end shifters), low enough to be efficient but not fully
stretched out. I've recently read comments from "racers" that if you spend
any amount of time down there your bars are too high. Well, my bars are
certainly too high by their standards, but mine are set up for me to be
comfortable in every spot. Very important: in EVERY position you should not
be gripping the bar or brake hood tightly, you should have a very loose
grip and not be bearing too much weight there. I typically am very slightly
pulling up on the brake hoods or drops to counteract the pedaling force of
the opposite leg. Also, you should ALWAYS have at least a slight bend in
your elbows in every position. If you are locking your elbows something is
wrong with the position and you're doing bad things to your wrist and
shoulders and neck.

General rule of thumb for starting out, have the tops of the bars maybe an
inch above saddle height or, if you're already pretty flexible in the heaps
and low back, level with the saddle. Put the back of an elbow at the front
of the saddle and stretch your finger tips toward the handlebars. They
should just touch the back of the handlebars at the stem. Maybe a little
closer if you're tight, a little farther if you're flexible. Somebody
recommended Noodle bars, which I heartily endorse, as that's what I have on
most of my bikes. I like them because 1) the curves are generous 2) there's
a little rise in the top curve, making them very comfy in that area) and 3)
there's a fair amount of reach and drop, so you have a good range of
positions. That last part is key for me on long rides. Sometimes I'm riding
hard and need the long and low positions. Sometimes I'm taking it easy and
need the high and near positions.

I won't opine much on "which bike", because once you figure out your fit
criteria, any bike that allows you to have that position will work fine. I
have my Sam Hillbornes set up almost identically to my custom Waterford ST
and Rivendell Road, except on the Riv Road the handlebars are a bit farther
away and lower.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

2024-04-16 Thread Ted Durant

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 8:27:21 PM UTC-5 ber...@bernardduhon.com wrote:

Previous threads and literature suggests that the closer the cogs in 10 &
11 speeds makes for better friction shifting.

What has been your experience?

Like others, I have had mixed experience. A few observations -
1. On a very springy frame, derailer cables get yanked when you push hard
on the pedals. I have a Terraferma that's so flexible even I can make it
swing. I currently have some Cyclone derailers and Silver 1 shifters on
that bike, with a 9-speed cassette, and there's no way I could tighten the
shifters enough to keep it from ghost shifting if I do an out-of-the-saddle
stoplight sprint. Other than that, it's a nice, smooth-shifting experience.
It can be a little tricky to quiet the rear derailer when a cog is between
clicks of the shifter. Which leads to ...
2. The reduction in derailer actuation (the ratio of derailer movement to
cable movement) has been driven by the desire to have more cable movement
per cog, to improve index shifting. The same effect can be felt with
friction shifting, especially with shifters that use a micro-ratchet
mechanism (like Silver). If the derailer requires only a small amount of
cable movement to shift one cog, I find that the shifter can be between
clicks, requiring one extra click then a slight shove forward. This gets
pretty fiddly and would certainly be annoying if you're riding with the
carbon folks or are oxygen deprived at 13k feet. Which leads to ...
3. The Simplex retrofriction bar-end shifters are absolutely perfect for
shifting SRAM "exact actuation" (1.30 derailer actuation) derailers over
10-11 speed cassettes. The 1.30 derailer actuation requires a fair amount
of cable pull, and the Simplex bar-ends pull a lot of cable. Being
retrofriction instead of ratchets, you never have the problem of being
between clicks. Don't go putting Simplex retrofriction downtube levers on
your bike and think you'll get the same experience, though. The downtube
levers pull much less cable.

Bottom line ... you have to match your friction levers to your derailer and
cog count combo if you want a system that works without a lot of fiddling.
Not that fiddling is bad, necessarily. But you also should feel free to
decide that indexing is better for your style of riding.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: WTB - 9spd Dura Ace downtube shifters

2024-04-10 Thread Ted Durant

On Wednesday, April 10, 2024 at 2:48:19 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

Also, you can get brand new 9sp bar cons from Rivendell at $140, and 
elsewhere for a few dollars less.  Some people run bar cons on their down 
tube shifter bosses, and they work fine.


 FYI, Grant tells me that he thinks Shimano has stopped making the 9sp 
bar-end shifters "after 25 or 26 years of making them". Get 'em while you 
can, and expect the price to get eye-watering. 

And, yes, you can run them on the down tube. Interesting bit of RBW history 
... I pointed this out to Grant a long time ago, and that the opposite was 
true, that downtube shifters could be mounted on Shimano bar-end pods. And 
thus were born the Silver 1 bar-end shifters.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

2024-04-06 Thread Ted Durant

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-5 george schick wrote:

I'm apparently of the same ilk as Bill.  I'm using a Shimano Crane RD 
(their predecessor to the Dura-Ace line) on a Fuji Finest of the same time 
period, very early 70's, and it looks just fine on there.


I’m working from a much more modern source of inspiration … my 1979 Fuji 
America.:-) 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

2024-04-06 Thread Ted Durant

On Saturday, April 6, 2024 at 12:21:15 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

I run the gearing that I do (13-34 7s with 46-34-22 up front) solely 
because it allows me to run my Suntour XC three-pulley rd! Admittedly the 
45T chain wrap is nine above the stated 36T maximum but still :)

Bravo! That derailer gets no love from Disraeligears but it has a warm spot 
in my heart. Wacky, clever engineering.

Also, an update here … I added a pristine Cyclone GT to my collection. I 
decided to put the SunTours on my Breadwinner, which has an 11-speed setup, 
to see how they’d manage the required sweep. They don’t. One of the issues 
on that bike is that it’s a 140mm through-axle rear, and the first cog is a 
pretty long way from the face of the derailer hanger. I did a quick look at 
some other bikes, and it appears the derailer hanger-to-first cog distance 
varies by quite a bit.  That will definitely have an impact on whether an 
old derailer has enough sweep for a given setup.  

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

2024-04-05 Thread Ted Durant

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 3:17:24 AM UTC-5 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

As Snoopy said long ago: "Some of us prefer to sacrifice comfort for style".

I’m not comfortable riding a bike with an ugly derailer so I don’t have 
conflicting objectives.
:-)

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

2024-04-04 Thread Ted Durant

On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 9:54:49 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

Even OLD is TBD?


Yes, but I don’t have any specific requirements there. I don’t expect 
chainring clearance or chain deflection issues to cause me to lean in a 
particular direction. However, availability of compatible  components will 
be a factor.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

2024-04-04 Thread Ted Durant

On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 4:29:06 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

 I can confirm that a Vx GT and a Cyclone MkII GT will cover 9 -11 cog 
cassettes. In fact, a Cyclone MkII GT executes flawless index shifting on a 
9-speed 12-36 cassette using Shimano 10-speed bar end shifters.


After more experimentation I have to retract that. The Cyclone MkII GT 
covers 9, but 10 is just a bit too far. In theory it’s less than 1mm extra 
distance. In practice, it probably depends on the specific cassette and 
where that innermost cog lies relative to the face of the derailer hanger. 
 On a VO hub with a Shimano HG body, on my Terraferma, a Shimano 9-sp 12-36 
worked okay, but a Shimano 10-sp 12-28 requires just a bit more sweep.

And I had trouble getting a new Silver (1) shifter to hold its position 
during the test. Beeswax or Loctite might have helped.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 2:05:32 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3573/bicycle-cassette-rear-chainrings-standards/#2.1.2

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1232/bicycle-cassette-compatibility/


Jackpot! Thanks for sharing!
 

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

> On Apr 3, 2024, at 11:54 AM, Piaw Na  wrote:
> 
> I'm a big fan of half-step + granny for 7-speed rear cassettes and 
> freewheels. I think I even wrote an article about it for the Rivendell Reader 
> at one point (good luck digging it up!). What killed it for me was once 
> cassettes got to the point where constructing your cassette was no longer 
> supported or too much work, it was no longer practical.

I remember that, and probably could dig it up! And, yeah, you really have to 
build your own. 

> Those who live in places where 20+% grades are unusual or cannot be found 
> probably won't bother with my low gears.

This is super important and where “YMWCV”! I should have prefaced my entire 
treatise by making it clear that most of my riding is in SE Wisconsin on mostly 
paved roads and crushed limestone trails. The limestone trails are abandoned 
railroad beds, so rarely exceed 2% grade. We have only a few hills that 
approach 20% and they are quite short. Mostly it’s rollers that are 5%, 
occasionally 10%. The wind, on the other hand ….  

Riding in the LA area, especially trying to go up avg 10% dirt/rocky trails 
that go on for miles, my gearing needs are somewhat different. One of the 
thoughts I’m keeping in mind as I spec a new bike is flexibility … if I travel 
with this bike, will I be able to easily modify the 
gearing/tires/fenders/racks/lighting to match the intended conditions. But 
then, I also have a few different bikes, so ultimate flexibility might not be 
paramount :-)

> On Apr 3, 2024, at 12:33 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> So, you have settled on what your gearing and derailleur choices will be?  If 
> yes, what exactly will they be?  What rear wheel OLD will you be using?  Will 
> it be a cassette rear hub or a freewheel?  How many cogs in back, what cogs?  
> If it's a contemporary 10 or 11speed cassette width, have you confirmed your 
> Suntour RD will sweep that horizontal distance?  What shifters will you use?  

All TBD, but I can confirm that a Vx GT and a Cyclone MkII GT will cover 9 -11 
cog cassettes. In fact, a Cyclone MkII GT executes flawless index shifting on a 
9-speed 12-36 cassette using Shimano 10-speed bar end shifters. I’ve posted 
elsewhere about this … SunTour derailers should index perfectly on a 
Shimano-SRAM n speed cassette with Shimano n-1 speed shifters, where 7<=n<=9. 
By “index perfectly” I mean that the horizontal derailer movement is exactly 
the right amount given the cable pull. An odd and interesting historical math 
artifact.

What is also important is related to that. SunTour derailers have a high 
actuation ratio, meaning lots of horizontal movement relative to cable pull. As 
a result, “normal” shift levers are able to move a SunTour derailer across 8-12 
cogs where other derailers would require a shift lever with more cable pull (a 
larger diameter drum around which the cable is wound). SRAM and newer Shimano 
derailers have much lower actuation ratios, driven (I hypothesize) by a desire 
to increase the amount of cable pull per shift and, consequently, increase the 
tolerance for imperfections in cable movement. Campagnolo, interestingly, 
_increased_ the actuation ratio slightly when they went from “old” 9 speed to 
“new” 9 speed and later. Always marching to their own beat, those Italians.

My choice of shifters will depend on several factors, including the gearing, 
the derailer, whether I feel indexing is important, and whether I want to deal 
with the additional complication of handlebar-mounted shifters on a bike that 
might get rinko’d. 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Gearing Choices

that with 44/40 up front, and
like me you ride 650x38b tires at 75-100rpm, you would have 18 distinct
gears in a range from 49.5.kph to 7.6kph with an average step of 9.3% and a
standard deviation of steps of 0.9%. Good luck building a 1x system with
that range, step size, and consistency! And, good luck finding a 9sp
11-13-16-19-23-38-34-41-49 cassette! And, of course, if you want that setup
you are forced to go with a butt-ugly modern derailer in back. The good
news is you can use pretty much anything, including a stick, to shift up
front!

That said, a large number of cogs in back can allow for something of a nice
combination of half-step and crossover. Some people talk of a “1.5 step”,
but I’ve evolved to a bit different way of thinking about it. In theory,
because of the cubing effect of wind resistance as speed increases, you
should want progressively smaller gear differences as the gears get taller
for a consistent difference in pedaling effort. In practice, I find this is
true, to some extent, but the more relevant factors are hills and wind. In
a nutshell, sometimes I want bigger gaps, and sometimes I want smaller.
What I DON’T want, is to have a big difference in gaps smack dab in the
middle of where I usually ride. And, sure enough, on one of my bikes, I am
usually right near where the cogs go 14-15-17. That’s gaps of 6.9% and
12.5% right next to each other, and it’s a jarring difference.

So my new, patent-pending approach, is to think of the rear cogs as
essentially two ranges, close steps on the smaller half and larger steps on
the larger half. If I’m in conditions where I want small steps, I stay on
the smaller half; if I want larger steps, I stay on the larger half. In
practice it’s very similar to a “half step plus granny” setup. It turns
out, I have a bike that has an almost perfect example of this setup, and I
have subconsciously been using it this way.

An important part of this setup is that you cannot use the typical mindset
of “maximize the drop from the big ring to the small” in current 2x setups.
If you do that, you will probably take the gearing too low for the small
steps to be useful. On the setup I have that works well, I chose to make
the chainring jump less jarring than my other bike. A 42/26 combo is a
giant 48% change. If I don’t shift at least two gears in back in
conjunction with a front change, my cadence has to change way beyond my
comfort level. A 44/32, on the other hand, is 32% and far more manageable.
I have that on a bike with 650x48b tires and 11-32 11sp in back. That
cassette is 11-15 in 1-tooth increments, then 17-32 in relatively even
steps. If I cross over from the 44x15 to the 32x12, I have 9 gears that
have an average 7.9% step between them (sd 0.9%). Staying on the small ring
I have 7 more gears at an average 12.6% gap (sd 1.3%). Additionally, I can
ride in the large chainring in the 44x17 at 28.7kph or 44x19 at 25.7 kph,
the heart of my usual speed, and have consistent 2-tooth changes either
direction in back. Or, I can ride in the 32x13 at 27.3 or the 32x14 at
25.3, with nice 1-tooth changes in either direction. The range total range
is 9.6 to 51.0 kph for me. I’d want to get that down some if I was carrying
a bunch of stuff off road in the mountains, but for riding around here
that’s more than enough range.

Back to my dilemma … the large cog of 32 and total wrap of 33 teeth in that
setup are easily managed by a SunTour Cyclone GT derailer from the late
70’s. Be still my beating heart! No ugly modern derailer necessary!

I still think a 2x7 half-step setup, with 18% gaps in the rear and 9% up
front, is a killer setup for most road and gravel riding that doesn’t
involve, say, more than 10% extended climbing grades. You’ll have to build
your own cassette, though. A 2x11 or 2x12 two-range setup as I’ve describe
above, though, is very practical and pretty widely available.

Spreadsheet available upon request.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2024

On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 12:59:04 PM UTC-5 Matthew Williams wrote:


Sam Hillborne F/F/HS/BB
51cm
1550
Livonia, MI
https://www.ebay.com/itm/176315208003

Oooh, it’s tempting to add a blue “Midwest Sam” to join my green “West 
Coast Sam” and silver “East Coast Sam”. Unfortunately I’ve maxed my 
basement bike storage and N+1 is no longer an option.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

FWIW, the center-center spacing for Shimano cogs is:

7sp 5.00
8sp 4.80
9sp 4.35
10sp 3.95
11sp Road 3.69
11sp MTB 3.90

Sorry, I don’t have 12 and 13. 

Cog + spacer widths need to add to those numbers. Theoretically you can use 
thinner cogs than spec with wider spacers, but you would run into trouble 
with chain fit using thicker cogs with thinner spacers. If somebody finds 
or assembles a complete table of cog and spacer thickness spec’s, that 
would be a significant contribution to humankind.

I’ll be posting on a related topic, soon.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: I have questions

2024-03-22 Thread Ted Durant

On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 9:21:01 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

Seconded on RH knobbies. I have them in 42mm and they're alarmingly nice on 
pavement whilst leaving some margin when I hit dirt and gravel spots (which 
is most pavement rides around here). 


I’m not quite as smitten with the RH knobbies. I run 48mm tires on my 
Breadwinner G-Road, and I find the knobbies to be just buzzy enough on 
pavement to detract a bit from the ride. Of course, that’s compared to 
smooth tread ultralights. If I ever take the bike where I expect there to 
be more dirt riding, though, I’d definitely bring the knobbies.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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[RBW] Re: I have questions

2024-03-22 Thread Ted Durant

On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 6:55:19 PM UTC-5 Max S wrote:

A dyno hub puts out a nominal 3 Watts. If you ride it for an hour, that's 3
watt-hours worth of electricity. Let's say it gets split between the light
and your phone. If you ride continuously for 10 hours, that's about 30
watt-hours. Let's say half is used to power the light, half to power the
phone...

I probably read the same long, nerdy article as Johnny A, and I think
you’ll actually get less than half of that going to the phone (or whatever
else you plugged in). That’s why I set up my system to be one or the other.
And, as Jason said, you actually can damage your phone because of the
variable power output. I set up my system primarily so I can charge a power
bank if needed … hopefully as I’m coasting down a nice long mountain
descent where I can convert all that potential energy into stored
electrons. I also like the idea of being able to power the lights from the
battery instead of the generator when I’m on a long climb. Every watt
counts :-) But day in, day out, I like having the lights “always on”
running off the generator.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: I have questions

2024-03-22 Thread Ted Durant

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 8:10:14 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
wrote:

Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace?

Yes. I have Rene Herse 48mm tires on my Breadwinner G-Road, Gravel King
(smooth) 48mm on West Coast Sam, and Ultradynamico 48mm tires on East Coast
Sam, and 15-17mph is pretty much my normal pace on all of them. The Gravel
Kings require only a bit more effort than the RH tires. The Ultradynamico
tires require noticeably more effort, but it's not like they're boat
anchors. I've done a couple of 20mph rides on the Breadwinner. My Rivendell
Road recently went from 26 to 32mm (though they measure 29 on the skinny
rims) tires. It's easier to ride at 20mph on that bike, but only marginally
so.

What are people using to charge phones on long rides away from home?

For my Breadwinner I spent a lot of time thinking about and designing a
flexible generator-light-charging setup, and I'm very happy with the
result. The coaxial wire from the hub ends in a quick-connector behind the
fork crown. Normally my headlight (Supernova E3 pro 2) plugs into that, and
the tail light plugs into the headlight. If I want to charge something, I
have a Sinewave Revolution that can plug into the generator instead of the
headlight. That leaves me without lights, but I also can plug the lights
into a USB power source. Supernova says the lights won't run off a battery,
but the 5v from the battery is more than enough. They aren't at their full
brightness, but they are plenty bright for most conditions. I prefer having
a headlight with a properly shaped beam (sorry, Beacon), and you can't
really generate enough watts to run both a light and charge a phone,
anyway. And besides, reasonably lightweight USB power sources are cheap and
easy. The one I have is only a few ounces and can charge my phone 3x. And I
can recharge it from my generator hub if I want. In fact, theoretically I
can connect both the generator and the lights to the battery, and it will
charge the battery as the battery is powering the lights. I haven't tested
that to see if the generator makes enough power to run the lights and still
add to the battery charge level.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Abomination? Riv Road "upgrades"

2024-03-20 Thread Ted Durant

On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5 EGNolan wrote:

Pairing the wheels with some on-sale Vittoria Corsa G2.0 in 32 width made
the bike smoother than with 650b x 42 GravelKings and loads faster. Is it
an abomination? Heresy?

Well, my only personal feeling about Eric's bike is that the graphics on
the rims are kinda loud. Love the Ritchey cranks, though!

I sold my Heron Touring bike to a friend, for whom it was a perfect fit.
His brother-in-law, a hard-core road bike kinda guy, had a snazzy pair of
"last year's" carbon fiber wheels that he gave to my friend for cheap. I
was initially horrified by it and the cork pads he'd manage to find for the
cantilever brakes, but he was happy and rode it a LOT, so that made me
happy.

I have a lovely Campagnolo Daytona group on my Rivendell Road, with wheels
built by Joe Young using shiny, light, skinny FIR rims. I just discovered
that Rene Herse 32mm tires fit with room to spare, measuring 29mm on those
skinny rims. I also found a NOS 13-26 cassette to replace the 12-23 that I
had on there. Talk about an upgrade! All of a sudden I like this bike a
lot more.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Smooth Post Brake Pads

2024-03-11 Thread Ted Durant

On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 12:46:15 PM UTC-5 Greg J wrote:

Bill and Ted,  can you explain what you mean by the Dia Compe 986 deforming 
or squishing when overtightened?  


I just did a bit of googling and realize the brakes I'm thinking of were 
980, not 986. Wish I still had them to take photos. On mine, working from 
memory, the washers that have the channels for holding the brake pad post 
and the brake pad posts themselves deformed, making fine adjustment 
impossible. The eyebolt openings may also have deformed.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Smooth Post Brake Pads

2024-03-10 Thread Ted Durant

On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 9:11:20 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

...Smooth post cantilevers, in my view, raise the ceiling for a good
mechanic. I feel like the extra work required represents the mechanical
"envelope" to get things perfect. On these forums (RBW, IBOB, 650B) I've
advised that the typical home-mechanic should probably not take on Rene
Herse Cantilevers, it's too heavy a lift. The second reason is that smooth
post cantilevers give me more room to play with rim width. In the hands of
the right mechanic, I think smooth post cantilevers are preferable.

Such a great, thoughtful response, Bill. I encourage everyone to read it
through, even though I've kept just a small part of it here.

I had a laugh because Dia Compe 986 are exactly what I had in mind about
impossible to readjust brakes. 20 year old me had them on both a Marukin
Northstar and a Santana Elan. The Santana was especially challenging
because Santana placed the mounts way too close together. They might have
worked on a 5mm wide rim. The tandem was my wife's and my wedding gift to
each other, and around our 30th anniversary I had Waterford do a full
repaint and I replaced all the components with updated parts. Shimano CX-70
brakes were a revelation and for the first time I had fully confident
braking on the bike. Wished I had them on our honeymoon, camping in Vermont!

I hadn't thought much about rim width in writing my initial post, probably
because I'd forgotten about the initial installation and choosing the right
bolt/spacer combo on the CX-50s. But I don't think my mind is changed about
the extent to which the Shimano CX system improves on smooth posts. On the
contrary, the fact that I didn't have to think about that part of the setup
when changing pads illustrates one of its advantages for me. Different
length bolts and spacers would be compatible with the adapter I have in
mind. Fortunately, having put 4 sets of CX brakes on bikes, I have a pretty
good supply of spacers and bolts :-). I don't think the weight gain, if
there is any, would be enough to change my mind.

One thing that the CX and Rene Herse brakes have in common, that makes them
such a pleasure (and so much easier) to work on, is the quality of the
hardware.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Smooth Post Brake Pads

2024-03-09 Thread Ted Durant

Jumping off of Bill Lindsay's RoadeoRosa thread, where he commented on the
varsity level work required to de-squeak his Rene Herse brakes

I love Jan and his stuff, but I think keeping the smooth post brake pads
for his brakes is being a slave to the past. I've never liked any of the
brakes I've had that used them. Hard to set up, impossible to adjust after
tightening (any aluminum bits immediately deform, preventing further
adjustment), limited replacement options.

I just replaced the pads on the Shimano CX-50 cantilever brakes on East
Coast Sam. I wanted cartridge holders for easy pad swapping, prompted by a
white-knuckle descent of Connor Pass in Ireland on a very wet day. I put on
105 holders with Kool Stop dual-compound pads, which I've loved on the
Silver/Tektro long-reach side pulls I've had on various bikes. Setting them
up took all of about 5 seconds on each side, and zero squeal out the gate.
(Release the springs, do an initial install and slight tighten, then put a
credit card between the trailing edge and the rim, squeeze the brake lever,
loosen and re-tighten the pad, done. Don't forget to put the springs back
on.)

All of which made me dream up an adapter that would allow for mounting a
bolt-on pad on a brake that uses smooth post pads. I'm envisioning a bolt
on one end, to attach to the brake arm, and a flat tab on the other, with a
hole for the pad mounting bolt to pass through. The tab probably wants to
be offset from the center axis of the bolt, to put the inner face closer to
the inside edge of the brake arm.

A bit of Googling came up with zilch. Anybody handy with machining
stainless steel rod stock?

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Sit Bone Width and Saddles

2024-02-29 Thread Ted Durant


> On Feb 29, 2024, at 9:18 PM, Jay  wrote:
> 
>  Maybe it was because I wasn't wearing bibs that have just don't work for me. 
>  

That’s a very good possibility. I worked hard to find saddles that work well 
for me and, in the case of the leather saddles, worked hard to tune the fit. 
Anything more than a very thin pad in biking shorts ruins the ride for me. 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI 53217


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Re: [RBW] Re: Sit Bone Width and Saddles

2024-02-29 Thread Ted Durant

On Feb 29, 2024, at 1:21 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:" It's 275mm wide,"That's probably the length, not the width. :)Yup. Shouldn’t try to make rushed posts before getting on a plane. It’s 140mm wide BL in ECOn Thursday, February 29, 2024 at 8:39:54 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at 6:45:42 PM UTC-6 Jay wrote:I'll preface this by saying I know saddles are highly subjective, and what works for one may not work for you. What I wanted to ask about is "general thinking". Just wanting to confirm some thoughts I've had about this...Saddle dimensions are much more complex than just width. It's not just where the sit-bones hit the saddle, but at what angle. How much of the saddle lies outside the sit-bones and how it's shaped are also very important. Also important are the cant of the rear and how much "scoop" there is in the transition from tail to front. And all of those things, as you note, have to be in the context of your back-hip angle as you ride.WTB saddles tend to be very flat across the back, with an abrupt falloff in cross-section. I was attracted to them by the cant and scoop, which are a key feature of most Brooks saddles, but the flatness didn't work for me. The Soma Ensho, which is made by Velo in Taiwan, is perfect for me. It's 275mm wide, but the back has a slightly rounded cross-section that falls off at an increasing rate. The amount of cant and scoop feel just right. I can only ride B-17's in a more upright position, and I have to be positioned a little forward on them. I also ride a Berthoud Aspin, which is a similar shape and width in cross-section but has a bit less cant and scoop.Ted DurantMilwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Sit Bone Width and Saddles

2024-02-29 Thread Ted Durant

On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at 6:45:42 PM UTC-6 Jay wrote:

I'll preface this by saying I know saddles are highly subjective, and what
works for one may not work for you. What I wanted to ask about is "general
thinking". Just wanting to confirm some thoughts I've had about this...

Saddle dimensions are much more complex than just width. It's not just
where the sit-bones hit the saddle, but at what angle. How much of the
saddle lies outside the sit-bones and how it's shaped are also very
important. Also important are the cant of the rear and how much "scoop"
there is in the transition from tail to front. And all of those things, as
you note, have to be in the context of your back-hip angle as you ride.

WTB saddles tend to be very flat across the back, with an abrupt falloff in
cross-section. I was attracted to them by the cant and scoop, which are a
key feature of most Brooks saddles, but the flatness didn't work for me.
The Soma Ensho, which is made by Velo in Taiwan, is perfect for me. It's
275mm wide, but the back has a slightly rounded cross-section that falls
off at an increasing rate. The amount of cant and scoop feel just right. I
can only ride B-17's in a more upright position, and I have to be
positioned a little forward on them. I also ride a Berthoud Aspin, which is
a similar shape and width in cross-section but has a bit less cant and
scoop.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Los Angeles Riv Ride

2024-02-15 Thread Ted Durant

Ride With GPS route:
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/45602857

Ted Durant

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

2024-02-15 Thread Ted Durant

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com
wrote:

That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get
comfortable on it. I am too stretched out.

Yup, that is a beautiful bike! I know the feeling of being too stretched
out, even as someone who is naturally quite flexible and likes to ride in a
pretty low back position. My Sams are set up with a shorter reach than my
other bikes and I have found I like it. Contrary to the others and to
"conventional wisdom", I have not found saddle fore-aft position to be so
critical that I have to nail it to the mm. I am comfortable and feel
similarly powerful over a range of 15-20mm. My Sams have much shallower
seat tube angles than my other bikes, and I have the saddles pushed forward
a bit, but not a lot. Like a couple of other posters, I wouldn't hesitate
to go to an 8 or even 7cm stem to get the reach that you like. I use my
personal cubit to judge reach - put your elbow against the front of the
saddle and see where your finger tips lie relative to the handlebars. Most
my bikes have the bars about 20mm ahead of my fingers. On my Sams my
fingers just touch the bars.

As others have pointed out, Noodle bars have a pretty good reach. In
addition, the TRP brake lever hoods are looong. The combined effect is
quite a bit of extra reach. I very much like having lots of reach and drop
on the bars so my position varies a lot as I move my hands. But it does
mean you need a shorter stem so the on-the-hoods position feels neutral.

Ted Durant

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Re: [RBW] Los Angeles Riv Ride

2024-02-15 Thread Ted Durant

On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 10:57:53 PM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:

Happy to see that this is all coming together. Seems like a 7:45 to 8:00
roll out would be ideal, and the route possibilities above are prefect.
Here's a screenshot of the map starting at Allez LA; folks driving in can
find tons of parking on Meridian and Stradford.

How about 7:45-8:00 arrival at Allez LA, 8:15 rollout. Then I suggest we do
the route the other direction from my previous suggestion, going up around
the Rose Bowl then across to Sierra Madre, stop for coffee/tea/pastries in
Sierra Madre, then return via the Cub House which, if we are reasonably
relaxed about the pace, should be open by the time we are there. If that
works for people, I will post a RideWithGPS route.

Off topic, but anyone know if the Velo Retro rides are still happening? I
remember coming across Chuck around 2008ish at Buster's Coffee shop in
South Pas (currently called Jones Coffee Roasters). Super nice guy, and
always on an amazing bike. In fact, seeing him ride in Birkenstocks
resonated with me.

Indeed the ride is still happening, first Sunday of every month, though
alas poor Chuck hasn't been able to ride a bike for a while. My last meet
up with him was in fact at Jones Coffee Roasters. He still likes to hang
out there.

Ted Durant

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Re: [RBW] Los Angeles Riv Ride

2024-02-14 Thread Ted Durant


> On Feb 14, 2024, at 1:30 PM, Brian Cunningham 
>  wrote:
> 
> Funny you should mention Chuck's ride, Ted. I believe I met you a couple 
> years ago when you happened upon the ride and I was on my (now former, a 
> little too French fit) blue Rambouillet. The Sierra Madre loop I have 
> developed borrows somewhat from that ride but subtracts some turn and the 
> climb into Sierra Madre that I favor is longer and more gradual. 
> 

Ha! That was you! Yup, I was on the maiden voyage of a Space Horse that I’d 
bought for my “when I’m in LA” bike. Nice enough bike, but now that I have a 
Sam Hillborne here, the Space Horse isn’t getting much love.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA


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Re: [RBW] Re: Los Angeles Riv Ride

2024-02-14 Thread Ted Durant

On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 12:37:13 PM UTC-8 Brian Cunningham wrote:

If the plan is to meet up at Allez LA, and the plan is also to be strictly
road, I enjoy riding east on York until it becomes Monterey Road in South
Pas east of the 110, jogging north a block to the bike lane on El Centro,
taking it 'til it ends, hanging a quick left and then immediate right on
Mission, which gives you another bike lane and one that passes another
Riv-friendly bike shop The Cub House. If you were to head back south to
Monterey after that and head east you get the sort of smoothly paved roads
that only a tiny and rich city like San Marino can manage. And then from
there you can nearly get to Sierra Madre Blvd, which if you head north on,
it will curve past Pasadena High and eventually lead you into Sierra Madre
with a decent but gradual elevation change. Once you get to Sierra Madre
you've got a good cafe stop at Syndicate. From my place in Glendale this is
about a 34 mile round trip with about 1100 ft elevation gain but from Allez
I'd guess closer to 25 miles. This is my default ride when I want to get
some road miles in and the weather is mild enough that the coastal breezes
are not a factor.

I can confirm most of that, as I ride a similar loop frequently. Several of
the roads are on Chuck Schmidt's monthly Velo Retro Rose Bowl ride. From
Sierra Madre that ride comes back to the Rose Bowl via Paloma and Mountain.
>From the Rose Bowl, you can head south on Arroyo (a lovely ride!) and pick
up Monterey/York back to Allez LA. I just did a quick RWGPS check and that
route, including one lap of the Rose Bowl, is 43km/27mi, with a bit less
than 1000' of climbing, none of it especially steep.

In addition to Syndicate in Sierra Madre, there is excellent pizza and a
cafe across the street from Cub House.

I may be time limited, as it's my last day here and I shouldn't abandon my
family entirely. I can cut it short, though, and not do the full loop.

If the group wants some non-technical dirt there's always some Griffith
Park fire roads we can do instead. Those turns I know better from visual
memory than I could adequately describe here.

I've only been there once, so can't help lay out a route. Anybody know the
conditions of the roads after the rains?

If the group wants to experience the LA River Bike Path, please be aware
that it is closed north of Los Feliz Blvd this month for some repairs.

I'm not so big a fan of the river bike paths, other than a way to get from
one part of the city to another. No shade, not much scenery. And yesterday
I got screwed by one of them being closed unexpectedly. Had to hop a fence
to get out and avoid backtracking a few miles.

Ted Durant

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Re: [RBW] Re: Los Angeles Riv Ride

2024-02-10 Thread Ted Durant

I just arrived in San Gabriel and am here until the 18th. I’m hoping to ride pretty much every day while here. Happy to meet up, but I don’t have a car so it will need to be riding distance. Shame about the forecast for next weekend, hopefully that will change!Ted DurantMilwaukee, WIOn Feb 10, 2024, at 7:52 AM, Brian Cunningham wrote:If we’re thinking Saturdays, I’m free for either 3/2 or 3/30, if that works for y’all.Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 10, 2024, at 7:35 AM, Tony Lockhart wrote:Calling all fair weather cyclists: Looks like 2 inches of rain in the forecast for Saturday the 17th. I'm happy to postpone or suffer through the rain, provided there's a hot coffee stop along the route. How are other folks feeling? Wondering if it would be prudent to push the ride date out to March.On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 11:00:39 AM UTC-8 Dorothy C wrote:My son is planning to come too, he has a 55cm lime Platy from the first runOn Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 12:11:50 PM UTC-8 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:I would recommend minimal singletrack to keep this ride as inclusive as possible. Not all Riv riders have extra wide tires / experience on dirt. (Not speaking for myself, I prefer dirt) Don't wanna scare anyone off! The more the merrier. Wasn't able to visit AllezLA as they were closed on Tuesday. Will post ride beta here as I gather it from friends / perhaps a future visit. On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 5:12:41 PM UTC-8 Donzaemon wrote:Sounds like a fun ride. Wish I was still local!On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 5:04:07 PM UTC-8 heike...@gmail.com wrote:I'm fine with 30+ miles and fire roads; not so sure about any kind of steep or technical single-track (not sure what you mean by flowy, Riv-friendly single-track, P.W.. I've done a limited amount of single-track with my mountain bike, and I've gotten off and walked on steep, rocky parts, and I haven't taken my Appaloosa on any of that type of trail. I know the bike can do it; I'm just not sure I can :) Overall, though, the path and plan you suggest sounds fun, P.W.! How early is early? I'm an early riser, and I have to drive in from South Orange County. Google says it will take me 1:30 hours to get to Allez. On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 8:09 PM Tony Lockhart <alockh...@gmail.com> wrote:Just wondering what the fitness, technical ability, and comfort level of people are. While I've never taken my bike on single track, I love to try out some flowy curves and fire roadsand I'm quite happy to do 30+ miles on mixed terrain, especially if we get an early start. I'm super flexible.How are others feeling? I'd rather defer to the group, in favor of getting more people to attend. The more, the merrier, IMO.@Armand - Glad to hear that you'll be visiting Allez. Perhaps you can let us know if any good ideas or routes come up when you chat with Kyle. I think it would be great if we kept the ride on this side of town. I can't speak for others, but I'd welcome a future ride on the west side.@Phil - Great idea for a route; you've got my vote! I know Ted had mentioned Cherry Canyon. Sign me up for flowy single track and a beer anyday! On Sunday, January 7, 2024 at 4:37:01 PM UTC-8 philip@gmail.com wrote:Meeting at Allez wouldn’t be a bad idea.Riv dealers and great people, after all!I’m sure they’d be happy to host. Plus Collage coffee is down the block.Highland Park to South Pas, Rosebowl over to Cherry Canyon, down through the Sports Complex singletrack, ending with a beer and hot dog at Walt’s is never a bad time.20-30miles. Bunch of road, bunch of dirt. Flowy, Riv-friendly single track and fire roads.Or there’s Mt Washington - Elysian - Griffith. Although less fun.P. W.~(917) 514-2207~On Jan 7, 2024, at 3:52 PM, Armand Kizirian <kiziria...@gmail.com> wrote:Safe to say a Riv is not required to join the ride. I will definitely be inviting a few people who would thoroughly appreciate being surrounded by Rivendells, despite not owning one. Tony, I used to organize routes/rides/tours for small and large groups. I'm in Santa Monica so I'm not as familiar with great places to ride on the east side. I think a jaunt through frogtown/la river/griffith park could be great. I'll be going to Glendale tomorrow and can stop by Allez LA and pick their brain some, especially if Kyle is there. What kind of mileage are you thinking? Is this a morning meetup ride? Let's doo this. Good incentive for me to finish my Playtpus by then too :). On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:22:54 PM UTC-8 heike...@gmail.com wrote:Oh, so cool to see this happening! I’ve been mostly lurking here; got my Appaloosa last August and I ride it in Orange County. I’d love to join a ride and February 17th will probably work (family plans permitting). Question: How long/demanding will the ride be? I’m usually a solo rider and with my Appaloosa I’m more of a joy rider than a racer.On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 8:47:39 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:Hey folks,Anybody free for an early February meet up and

Re: [RBW] Why do some bikes just feel consistently faster?

2024-01-09 Thread Ted Durant


> On Jan 9, 2024, at 12:40 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxxhoKVVCvg
> 
> I don't know how to embed this, or whether good will embed it, but the 
> youtube link is the mode shape that produces planing from the rear triangles. 
>  
> 

That appears to be two dimensional in the plane of the frame, which wouldn’t 
represent what Jan Heine has described as his planing hypothesis.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Why do some bikes just feel consistently faster?

2024-01-08 Thread Ted Durant

On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 10:15:31 AM UTC-5 I wrote:

The Heron Road bikes have .1mm thinner top tube walls than down tube, and
my prototype has extra heavy stays, so there you go.

A bit more on this, just for fun. I had Waterford build an ST-22 that is in
many ways a duplicate of the Heron Road. However, it has a lighter top tube
(.7/.4/.7 vs .8/.5/.8), a lighter down tube (.65/.45/.65 vs .9/.6/.9), and
lighter chain stays (30x17 oval tapering to 12.5mm, 0.8 wall, vs 22.2 round
tapering to 12, probably 1.0 wall). I find the Heron to be a nicer ride.
BUT, there are a couple of other critical differences. Both bikes use the
Heron round blade fork crown, but the ST22 has slightly longer (bit more
rake, bit more clearance) but stiffer (1.2mm vs 1.0mm wall at the tips)
blades. In addition, the ST22 fork has beefy fork ends for the SON SL
connectors, and a Schmidt SON hub. Also, the ST22 rides on DT TK540 rims,
compared to Mavic MA2 on the Heron. Someday I'll put the Heron's wheels on
the ST22 and see how that changes things; I expect it will change a lot.

Don't underestimate the importance of the fork to the feel and handling of
a bike.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Why do some bikes just feel consistently faster?

2024-01-08 Thread Ted Durant

Not to be overly contrarian, but ...

Planing is a terrible word for the phenomenon in question, which is when
the flex characteristics of the bike are such that the energy stored in
deformation (of the frame and all the attached parts) is efficiently
returned to power the rear wheel during the lower power part of the
pedaling cycle. When a boat planes, it rises out of the water, resulting in
a large reduction in coefficient of drag. The equivalent on a bicycle would
be the development of a vacuum around the bike and rider at a certain
speed. That would be fun, but it's certainly not what's happening on earth.
Ironically, there is a well-known and used term in Jan's back yard, for the
exact phenomenon he is trying to describe. Rowers have long used the word
"swing" to describe a shell and oars whose flex characteristics synchronize
well with their strokes, allowing them to go faster for a given power
output. Jan claims that bikes that "plane" magically increase a rider's
power output, but the reality is that bikes that swing well waste less of
the rider's power. A better way to put it might be that such a bike puts
more of the rider's power to the back wheel.

The flex characteristics of the frame are important, of course, but the
entire bicycle (and its rider) is a system of springs and in such a system
the softer springs affect flex first, with the stiffer springs becoming
more relevant as the forces increase. For most of us on this list, we don't
spend a lot of time putting enough power into the pedals to get to the
point where frame flexibility is significantly tested. At 57kg, I can tell
you that I rarely put out that kind of power. I have a brevet bike made of
.7/.4/.7 standard diameter tubing, and I can make that frame flex, but not
for very long. That bike rides on 42mm tires at about 33 psi, and the tires
are definitely the soft springs in that system.

I don't attribute aluminum, or stiffer frames in general, to an increased
focus on cadence. Track cyclists have always been obsessed with cadence.
With the introduction of multiple gear systems for road biking came the
opportunity to develop notions of "ideal" cadence. Note that when Jan talks
about frames "planing" for him, he almost always talks about it working for
his preferred cadence. Stiff frames, in fact, reduce the importance of
cadence, as they reduce the contribution of the frame to swing (for a given
power input). For me, cadence is only important when going uphill or into a
headwind. It is important because I need enough momentum in my feet to keep
a steady speed. Without that momentum, I am repeatedly accelerating during
the power phase and decelerating during the non-power phase. That is
terribly inefficient. And that is why, as discussed in the recent thread on
gearing, it is so important to have low gears in steep hills. Long before
aluminum frames were a twinkle in Gary Klein's eyes, cyclists talked about
"staying on top of a gear" when climbing. It meant to maintain a fast
enough cadence that you were pedaling smoothly, maintaining a constant
speed. Cyclists have also long talked about using smaller gears and a
higher cadence to "work your heart, not your legs."

So, I also don't have _the_ answer to why some bikes seem/feel/are faster
than others. Many of my best Strava times on climbing segments and my best
100km time are on my Heron prototype, which is a road frame but has the
heavy rear stays from the touring frame. You can feel the weight of the
stays (and the weight of the old SunTour freewheel) when you pick up the
bike. Maybe it's just that I have so much invested in that bike that it
inspires me to push a little harder. I tend to believe Jan's hypothesis
that stiffness in the downtube and chainstays and flex in the top tube,
relative to each other, help a bike swing in a way that returns energy to
the rear wheel. Interestingly, old Reynolds tube sets were always spec'd
that way, with thinner walls in the top tube than in the down tube.
Somewhere along the way they switched to the Columbus standard, where top
tube and down tube walls are the same. The Heron Road bikes have .1mm
thinner top tube walls than down tube, and my prototype has extra heavy
stays, so there you go.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Los Angeles Riv Ride

2024-01-06 Thread Ted Durant

> On Jan 6, 2024, at 9:05 PM, Tony Lockhart  wrote:
> 
> Looks like we’re going to have a great turnout. Anybody good at mapping out 
> routes? 
> 
> There’s an event at The Rose Bowl on the 17th, but I’m sure there’ll be 
> parking near the Aquatic Center (for folks driving in). The Zoo/Autry lot 
> will have plenty of parking as well. Both locations are right off the 
> freeway. 

I can make the 17th, but it’s my last day that visit, and I would prefer to 
keep some time for my family. I will be in San Gabriel, so would prefer to ride 
in the San Gabriel valley vicinity.  I’ve had a few good rides in Cherry 
Canyon. The Cub House is a fun and funky bike shop in San Marino, near South 
Pasadena. They do builds for Rivendell, and it’s where West Coast Sam came to 
life. There is a fantastic pizza place across the street. Street parking seems 
to be generally available in the area, though I always bike there from my 
daughter’s place. The road ride to Cherry Canyon from there is nice, going 
across South Pas then up Arroyo to the Rose Bowl, then up into the hills along 
the amazing houses of Berkshire Ave. I tend to return back down Lida, past the 
ArtCenter College of Design. Lots and lots of up and down.

Just one option, but I could also get over to the Griffith Park area, and I’d 
always love to find new routes. I’ve also ridden some around Griffith Park and 
loved it.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

2024-01-02 Thread Ted Durant

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 11:38:19 PM UTC-6 Tony Lockhart wrote:

@Ted - Glad you'll be in town soon. Hoping you can carve out some time for 
a group ride. You mentioned that your daughter has a Riv, right?

I have a Sam Hillborne in her garage. And a Space Horse (which could be for 
sale if anyone is interested). She has a Trek 310 (Reynolds 531 main 
tubes!).

Looking forward to hopefully seeing a few people there.

Ted Durant 
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

2024-01-01 Thread Ted Durant

On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 5:21:42 PM UTC-6 Neale S. wrote:

 from Glassell Park, hope to see you out there. Sounds like we need 
another L.A. Riv Ride soon.


I will be in San Gabriel 2/11-2/17 and my West Coast Sam would enjoy 
meeting some relatives.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] "Grant hates toe clips."

2023-12-25 Thread Ted Durant


> On Dec 25, 2023, at 4:41 PM, Bernard Duhon  wrote:
> 
> 
> Less leg extension, so lower your saddle, there is more toe overlap and 
> finally slightly different muscles are used.  

I found the same. I lowered my saddle height both for slightly less shoe+pedal 
stack height and for foot positioning. 


Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] "Grant hates toe clips."

2023-12-25 Thread Ted Durant

On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 2:02:38 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

If I ever build a dedicated shopping bike I think I'll try no-retention
again, but this time without pinned pedals; it was the pins that annoyed me
when I tried platforms a couple of years ago because they were always
holding the shoe (and I bought a nice pair of platform cycling shoes) in
the wrong places and made it hard to shift the soles to the right places.

That's one of the reasons I love the Clem pedals ... plastic bodies, no
pins, but the grip with the sneakers I wear is quite good.

One of the things I took away from the Pino setup was the importance of
matching shoes and pedals together. Even with cleat and binding systems,
some shoes work better than others with a given system. Crank Brothers got
pretty smart about that, creating a system of shims and spacers to optimize
the fit. Binding-less pedals also have to be matched with compatible shoes.
I've experienced a similar issue as Patrick, where the pins on a pedal
don't line up nicely with the bottom of a shoe, and spent the whole ride
trying to find a comfortable foot placement.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."

2023-12-25 Thread Ted Durant

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how
many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use
clipless systems -- and what kind.

I started riding bikes in 1968. In 1978 I got my first pair of Detto Pietro
shoes. I've been through cleats, Avocets, SPD, MKS Mapstage, Time ATAC, Egg
Beater, and now I almost exclusively ride in sneakers (Lems) on flat pedals
(mostly Riv's Clem pedals). The most efficient "directly attached to the
rear wheel" system I ever felt was a pair of Delrin cleats that Pino
Morroni machined for Grant. They snapped perfectly into Campy NR pedals,
and you didn't even need a strap unless you really pulled straight up on
them. All the systems that "float" were absolutely terrible for me. My
heels would rotate to the float limits, creating a large amount of
rotational strain on my knees. I found Egg Beaters with zero float cleats
to be the best for my needs, and I still have them on my Riv Road, which is
set up for fast group riding. Also, like Wesley, my wife and I find
cleated pedals to be very important on the tandem - no more feet flying off
the pedals at inopportune moments. I liked having cleated pedals and shoes
for the short downtown part of my commute, where I would often need to
accelerate hard to keep up with the traffic flow. Since I retired I
haven't had a single time when I've been clipless (meaning no binding
system at all!) that I have wished for something holding my feet to the
pedals. On the contrary, I am finding that my feet, ankles, knees, and hips
are much, much happier, especially on long rides. I love being able to
shift my feet forward and back, sometimes on the ball, sometimes the arch,
depending on the terrain and the level of effort.

My father-in-law started doing some more recreational biking in his
retirement. The shop that sold him a new bike insisted he needed toe clips
and straps. At an intersection with some sand on the pavement (April in
Wisconsin!) he used his front brake and went down. In trying to pull his
foot from the pedal he very badly tore up the ligaments in his knee.
Needless to say, when he got back on the bike the next year, I had tossed
the clips and straps.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: 90-year-old cyclist: remarkable video

2023-12-23 Thread Ted Durant

My fondest wish is to be that guy in 30 years. We share the same birthday, 
so it's a start!

Guys I rode with in college did a semester in Pau. They came back with 
stories of riding with a local club into the Pyrenees. They described the 
riders as "old mountain goats who tore off our legs and lungs." My friends 
were hard core xc skiers in college, and they had a hard time keeping up 
with old French guys.

Side note - that "route profile" at the bottom of the YouTube video is a 
histogram showing the relative amount of viewing time of each segment ... 
sort of a "popularity" measure of the segments. I like Andy's suggestion, 
though, that it's a metaphor for a person's life. Plenty of ups and downs. 

My cycling goals that I set for 2023 were "Ride a lot. Enjoy it all." I 
didn't quite get to "a lot", but I can say I enjoyed it all.

Lovely film!

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Studs for Winter Riding?

2023-12-05 Thread Ted Durant

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 7:34:32 PM UTC-6 John Rinker wrote:

Do any of you fine folks with more experience in such matters than me have
any recommendations for studded tires for my Hunq?

As Andy said, winter conditions are like craft cocktails! And, as a result,
what works in some conditions might be terrible in others. For me, those
conditions regularly varied between my morning ride to work and my evening
ride home. Others have covered the broad range, but I will add one point. I
found that 2.1" Marathon tires were deadly in slush. They had just enough
float that at any speed above walking pace the front would float up off the
underlying pavement or ice/snow pack, and the traction then would match the
mythical frictionless surface of physics. With all the salt that is used
on roads here, temps can be pretty well below freezing and we still have
mostly slush, so I found that skinnier tires worked much better.
Unfortunately, that means that when dealing with frozen ruts, there's a lot
more bone shaking going on. Nokian W106 (700x35) on my Quickbeam were the
best combo I ever used for commuting in Milwaukee.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] A Homer Hill build....

2023-11-27 Thread Ted Durant

> On Nov 27, 2023, at 8:55 AM, Eric Daume  wrote:
> 
> IMO redundant gears are more of a conceptual or theoretical concern than a 
> real issue. If you’re setting up a triple, you really end up with:
> 
> - a middle ring for the majority of your riding 
> - a small ring for big hills, use it with the biggest cogs in back
> - a big ring for downhills or otherwise going fast. Use it with your medium 
> and small cogs and back. 
> 

Perfectly described. 

Sarah, given that you have said you pretty much live in your 34t, this sounds 
like it fits your use case well. There’s a slight learning curve to getting 
comfortable shifting a triple, but with the right combo of chainrings and front 
derailer, it should work reliably. Grant has written a good description of how 
to get reliable shifts, but it presumes the mechanical things are set up 
correctly. Also, if you are going up a really steep hill, you might not have a 
half revolution worth of momentum. 

Imagine the circular pedal path as the face of a clock, and shift at 
4:30. That’s half of your success.

When your shifting foot is at 6:00, stop muscling the pedal entirely. 
Let it drift to 12:00. Call this ‘floating,’ 
and it’s the other half of success.

As you float that pedal to 12:00, you also have to float the other side 
pedal to 6:00. The point is to eliminate 
power for half of a pedal revolution to de-tension the chain and give 
the shift time to take. When you 
honest-to-goodness float the pedal after the shift for, it takes just 
half a stroke. If you apply power even though 
you're not supposed to, the shift goes to hell, you lose your momentum, 
you fail.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 12:34:51 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

I would echo that triples are pretty nice - not only do you get more range,
but the 10-tooth jumps in the front are a lot less 'disruptive' if you know
what I mean. I find the smaller chainring jump means that when I hit the
base of a hill I can often just drop a chainring and leave the rear alone,
and it is a natural gear reduction .. whereas on the wide-low double, you
would be spinning like crazy if you tried the same thing

Excellent point, and one that launches me into bike nerd mode... apologies
in advance if this is too much.

The "standard" chainring gap became 16 teeth when "compact double" 50x34
combos became all the rage. That's a 39% jump, the way I measure it
(Ln(50/34)), or about 2.5 times the 15.4% jump from 18 to 21 in back. Now,
if you keep that 16 tooth gap but go down to 40x24, that's a ginormous 51%
jump, which is 3.3x the 18-21 jump. I have a 42x26 on my Waterford ST-22,
and it's definitely jarring to drop to the small ring when you hit a hill,
requiring a bit of advance planning to shift a cog harder in the rear,
first. I spent plenty of time riding half-step gearing, so I'm facile with
double-shifting, but after a couple hundred kms I'm too tired for that. For
my Breadwinner G-Road I went with 44x32, which is a gentle 32% jump. It
means there's more overlap in the gearing, or to put it another way, I'm
not maximizing the total range of the system, but I very much prefer to
make that trade-off. At 41%, the 14-tooth gap on the Silver 42x28's on my
Sams is pretty much the outer limit for me. The Wide-Low (38x24) is a 46%
jump which is pretty high.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 9:25:01 AM UTC-6 sarahlik...@gmail.com
wrote:

You always need a Hilly Bike... Do it!

A list full of enablers :-)

I had an injury (shoulder) last year and had what I would call total
fitness depletion so I have been building back up from what feels like
zero.

I'm very sympathetic to that. I've had a bunch of weird stuff happen over
the last few years, including a drug that started killing my red blood
cells, so I have felt like I've had to restart the engine a few times. That
might be one reason why my bikes are all set up the same way ... trying to
stick with what works in terms of positioning, while I get the other things
going.

So while I figure that out I'm open to seeing what a lighter built up bike
can do.

Far be it for me not to be the enabler of buying another Riv, but have you
considered stripping down one of your existing bikes and trying some nice,
light tires? In my experience, tires make by far and away the biggest
difference to how a bike feels, and if you've dialed in a good riding
position, you could start there (and maybe a wider range set of gears in
back). Removing a rear rack can also remove some stiffness from the rear of
the bike, but I don't know how many people would feel that difference,
especially on a bike that's already fairly stout and on cushy tires.

with exception to the guy who led the first beginner ride I went on, looked
at my bike and stated, "I hope I can ride slow enough..."

Hoo boy, just the kind of person you want leading a group ride... one of
the reasons I stopped going on group rides.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 8:35:43 AM UTC-6 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 I'm just trying to be more conscious about throwing racks and bags and 
accidentally building every bike into a touring bike


This made me laugh ... yeah, my bikes all look pretty much the same, except 
for the Riv Road with the Campy Daytona group. But, that only looks 
different because it doesn't have a handlebar bag LOL.

I keep thinking I should mix it up, but I gave a Cheviot an honest try (at 
least 5 different handlebars, including a Noodle!) and never liked it. 
After crashing my West Coast Sam coming off Mt Lukens a few weeks ago, I've 
been wondering if I need a Hillibike for that kind of riding :-) 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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[RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....