Re: [RBW] Carrying groceries on your bike

[Patrick Moore]

I often shop by bike at an Albertson's precisely 1/4 mile door to door by
bike, not merely because the rt is perhaps 3 minutes shorter (it's only .15
mile by foot if I cut across the fitness center parking lot) but because
it's easier to carry 30 lbs home in panniers than by hand, even for .15
mile, especially when your load includes bulky and heavy items. But I do
try to walk just because walking is healthy. (My other "main" grocery
stores are 2 Sprouts, 1 North at least 5.5 miles away through I often use
detours, and 1 South 8/10 mile away, though I usually turn that into an at
least 10-mile rt by riding a loop Northward and then doubling back on the
RG recreational trail.)

BTW, for a capacious pannier that folds up discretely, the Brooks Brick
Lane pannier pair that I recently acquired works very well, tho' you need
to stiffen the inside bottoms if your rack does not have wide-spaced legs
on each side to keep the bag from the spokes. I installed ~5" corroplast
stiffeners which of course prevent the bags from rolling up, but I may
replace the coroplast with 1" aluminum strip.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 5:03 PM Roberta  wrote:

> I don't do too many grocery runs by bike anymore, since I can go to a
> selection of stores within 1/2 mile, so a walk with backpack is fine.
> Still,  I'm set up like Carolyn, with basket on rack and panniers if I need
> more space.  I found that I don't like to be too unequal with weight when
> hauling.
>
> However, when I did use my bike for rides to the co-op, I had collapsible
> Wald rear panniers and loved them.  Not in the way when not needed, there
> when I do!  No one was going to steal them off my bike either, so I was
> always prepared.  I think I still have them, so if anyone wants them, let
> me know and I'll check my stash.
>
> Roberta
>

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Re: [RBW] Carrying groceries on your bike

[Roberta]

I don't do too many grocery runs by bike anymore, since I can go to a 
selection of stores within 1/2 mile, so a walk with backpack is fine.  
Still,  I'm set up like Carolyn, with basket on rack and panniers if I need 
more space.  I found that I don't like to be too unequal with weight when 
hauling.

However, when I did use my bike for rides to the co-op, I had collapsible 
Wald rear panniers and loved them.  Not in the way when not needed, there 
when I do!  No one was going to steal them off my bike either, so I was 
always prepared.  I think I still have them, so if anyone wants them, let 
me know and I'll check my stash. 

Roberta

On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 3:08:03 PM UTC-4 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

> I am fortunate to live in a development adjacent to one of the trail heads 
> to an expansive area of preserved grass and woodlands (much of it former 
> farmland) with a growing network of multiuse paths.  That particular 
> location in the photo is not necessarily along my usual route, but a short 
> detour onto one of the unmaintained alternate trails.  A large part of the 
> main trail has been paved with many others now packed gravel and stone dust 
> but this is still a good example of the scenery I do get to experience 
> whenever I do get out on the bike.  
>
> These trails now account for a significant % of my total mileage and I do 
> certainly get to turn most bike errand runs into a pleasant outing.  
> Unfortunately, my actual frequency of bike based errands or grocery runs 
> has greatly decreased lately so the majority of my recent rides have become 
> a variety of quick out and back loops or weekend family biking.  With a 
> trout stocked brook and a decent size lake on the opposite side of the park 
> system just a few miles away we can arrange some extended bike based family 
> outings so I've continued to experiment with various gear and kid hauling 
> combinations the past few years, whenever time permits or when our growing 
> child warranted adjustments with seating arrangements.  Kid hauling has 
> since been simplified to a second hand seat post mounted tag-a-long tandem 
> type attachment now that he's outgrown the rear mounted child seats and 
> started riding on his own.  The tandem attachment is only fitted right now 
> to my old 90's rigid MTB which lacks a front rack or basket and could use 
> some revisiting for gear hauling solutions but I was otherwise happy to 
> find a new use for the frame that had been at risk of offloading for 
> sometime.
>
> The Schwinn does make a very nice beater grocery bike but I've honestly 
> been tempted on a few occasions to strip it down and give it a spray.bike 
> repaint.  It's paint is in the worst condition of all my current bikes and 
> after having it serviced and aligned at a local shop after some initial 
> handling issues with the first build, I've since enjoyed it enough to think 
> a fresh coat of paint and re-build could be entirely worthwhile.  On the 
> other hand, I continue to appreciate it's current state and a complete lack 
> of concern for it's cosmetics so I eventually reconsider and leave it 
> alone.  It was an unexpected and opportunistic acquisition from a co-op 
> that was a short ride from my former office.  I would occasionally drop in 
> there to bring donated boxes of no longer needed parts and/or spend time 
> digging through the bins for occasional needed items for other projects 
> when I happened to see the huge frame in the rafters.  Brought it home that 
> day and it's served me well ever since so I may just end up giving it a 
> full makeover one of these days if I find the time.
>
> Brian Cole
>
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 9:01:52 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the background, Brian. The Schwinn looks like the idea beater 
>> grocery bike and if your shopping route includes that background you 
>> certainly make a chore into a pleasant outing.
>>
>> I tried big front baskets on a couple of bikes but failed to reinforce 
>> the very inadequate Wald hardware and so got poor results. I did try a big 
>> and stiff and heavy porteur rack on the front of a 1958 low trail Herse 
>> (far from being a collectors' item this was an orphan rejected by 2 
>> previous owners including Jan Heine who brought it in from France; tubing 
>> too thick or something. More below*) with a big custom bag for the rack, 
>> but with the sorts of grocery weights I often carry -- 30 or 35 lb is 
>> common, I've carried up to 50 lb -- even the Herse complained. I went back 
>> to rear loads which my Rivendell road bikes and various old road/racing 
>> frames handled with decorum and even aplomb. But if I were riding just a 
>> couple of miles to the store and had to lock a bike up outside (I wheel 
>> mine inside to use as shopping carts) I'd want a beater like that Schwinn.
>>
>> *For me, very much the contrary. I don't know if it was planing, but it 
>> was one of the rare bikes that made me cruise 

Re: [RBW] Carrying groceries on your bike

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I am fortunate to live in a development adjacent to one of the trail heads 
to an expansive area of preserved grass and woodlands (much of it former 
farmland) with a growing network of multiuse paths.  That particular 
location in the photo is not necessarily along my usual route, but a short 
detour onto one of the unmaintained alternate trails.  A large part of the 
main trail has been paved with many others now packed gravel and stone dust 
but this is still a good example of the scenery I do get to experience 
whenever I do get out on the bike.  

These trails now account for a significant % of my total mileage and I do 
certainly get to turn most bike errand runs into a pleasant outing.  
Unfortunately, my actual frequency of bike based errands or grocery runs 
has greatly decreased lately so the majority of my recent rides have become 
a variety of quick out and back loops or weekend family biking.  With a 
trout stocked brook and a decent size lake on the opposite side of the park 
system just a few miles away we can arrange some extended bike based family 
outings so I've continued to experiment with various gear and kid hauling 
combinations the past few years, whenever time permits or when our growing 
child warranted adjustments with seating arrangements.  Kid hauling has 
since been simplified to a second hand seat post mounted tag-a-long tandem 
type attachment now that he's outgrown the rear mounted child seats and 
started riding on his own.  The tandem attachment is only fitted right now 
to my old 90's rigid MTB which lacks a front rack or basket and could use 
some revisiting for gear hauling solutions but I was otherwise happy to 
find a new use for the frame that had been at risk of offloading for 
sometime.

The Schwinn does make a very nice beater grocery bike but I've honestly 
been tempted on a few occasions to strip it down and give it a spray.bike 
repaint.  It's paint is in the worst condition of all my current bikes and 
after having it serviced and aligned at a local shop after some initial 
handling issues with the first build, I've since enjoyed it enough to think 
a fresh coat of paint and re-build could be entirely worthwhile.  On the 
other hand, I continue to appreciate it's current state and a complete lack 
of concern for it's cosmetics so I eventually reconsider and leave it 
alone.  It was an unexpected and opportunistic acquisition from a co-op 
that was a short ride from my former office.  I would occasionally drop in 
there to bring donated boxes of no longer needed parts and/or spend time 
digging through the bins for occasional needed items for other projects 
when I happened to see the huge frame in the rafters.  Brought it home that 
day and it's served me well ever since so I may just end up giving it a 
full makeover one of these days if I find the time.

Brian Cole

On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 9:01:52 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks for the background, Brian. The Schwinn looks like the idea beater 
> grocery bike and if your shopping route includes that background you 
> certainly make a chore into a pleasant outing.
>
> I tried big front baskets on a couple of bikes but failed to reinforce the 
> very inadequate Wald hardware and so got poor results. I did try a big and 
> stiff and heavy porteur rack on the front of a 1958 low trail Herse (far 
> from being a collectors' item this was an orphan rejected by 2 previous 
> owners including Jan Heine who brought it in from France; tubing too thick 
> or something. More below*) with a big custom bag for the rack, but with the 
> sorts of grocery weights I often carry -- 30 or 35 lb is common, I've 
> carried up to 50 lb -- even the Herse complained. I went back to rear loads 
> which my Rivendell road bikes and various old road/racing frames handled 
> with decorum and even aplomb. But if I were riding just a couple of miles 
> to the store and had to lock a bike up outside (I wheel mine inside to use 
> as shopping carts) I'd want a beater like that Schwinn.
>
> *For me, very much the contrary. I don't know if it was planing, but it 
> was one of the rare bikes that made me cruise in a cog 1 tooth smaller. But 
> while it pedaled very well, it didn't handle my kind of loads well, *and* the 
> damning factor was that I didn't particularly like the handling, loaded or 
> unloaded. It wasn't horrible, it just felt rather vague and uninteresting 
> compared to so many other bikes available to me; so I sold it to someone 
> who really was glad to get it.
>
> On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 6:43 PM Coal Bee Rye Anne  
> wrote:
>
>> It’s been a long time since I’ve actually front loaded the Clem.  Not 
>> because I felt it handled so poorly or anything, more because I just 
>> decided to put baskets on other bikes to fulfill hauling and errand running 
>> needs and was more or less at a peak for parts swapping among various 
>> projects at the time.  I ended up trading away not only the rack but also 
>> the 

Re: [RBW] Carrying groceries on your bike

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the background, Brian. The Schwinn looks like the idea beater
grocery bike and if your shopping route includes that background you
certainly make a chore into a pleasant outing.

I tried big front baskets on a couple of bikes but failed to reinforce the
very inadequate Wald hardware and so got poor results. I did try a big and
stiff and heavy porteur rack on the front of a 1958 low trail Herse (far
from being a collectors' item this was an orphan rejected by 2 previous
owners including Jan Heine who brought it in from France; tubing too thick
or something. More below*) with a big custom bag for the rack, but with the
sorts of grocery weights I often carry -- 30 or 35 lb is common, I've
carried up to 50 lb -- even the Herse complained. I went back to rear loads
which my Rivendell road bikes and various old road/racing frames handled
with decorum and even aplomb. But if I were riding just a couple of miles
to the store and had to lock a bike up outside (I wheel mine inside to use
as shopping carts) I'd want a beater like that Schwinn.

*For me, very much the contrary. I don't know if it was planing, but it was
one of the rare bikes that made me cruise in a cog 1 tooth smaller. But
while it pedaled very well, it didn't handle my kind of loads well, *and* the
damning factor was that I didn't particularly like the handling, loaded or
unloaded. It wasn't horrible, it just felt rather vague and uninteresting
compared to so many other bikes available to me; so I sold it to someone
who really was glad to get it.

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 6:43 PM Coal Bee Rye Anne <
lionsrugbyalu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It’s been a long time since I’ve actually front loaded the Clem.  Not
> because I felt it handled so poorly or anything, more because I just
> decided to put baskets on other bikes to fulfill hauling and errand running
> needs and was more or less at a peak for parts swapping among various
> projects at the time.  I ended up trading away not only the rack but also
> the Bosco bars and stem pictured so just never circled back to front
> loading the Clem once I parted ways with the Surly rack.  The Clem also
> later evolved into a front child seat dad bike with rear rack added for
> those small OYB panniers.  My Clem currently has a Nitto mini 32f Campee
> with just a battery light attached up front and still debating whether to
> go with a small bag or basket on top.
>
> To properly answer your question, however, I do want to say it seemed ok
> at speed but definitely cumbersome during turns and low speed maneuvers.
> Even unloaded the Surly rack and crate combo had a noticeable feel with
> steering.  Not in a bad way but certainly more noticeable than with a 2yr
> old in a stem mounted front seat where the added weight in line with the
> steering column seemed to more or less cancel itself out in use.
>
> I honestly think the wheel flop (when parked and loading/unloading)
> bothered me a bit more than the impact on steering when in motion.  Once I
> acquired that XL Raleigh frame with locking fork crown I quickly made that
> a front loader basket bike with a large Wald to take advantage of the fork
> lock and fully eliminate those sudden, loaded wheel flops.
>
> I’ve since moved that same Wald 139 basket to this Schwinn (finally
> snapped a pic of this current build earlier today when sneaking out for a
> quick loop.)  This setup certainly begs to be lowered/centered more and
> better reinforced due to a somewhat flimsy bar attachment because of how I
> adapted the original bar brackets to fit offset brackets and increase bar
> to basket drop on the Raleigh.  Basically there’s extra play in the
> extended drop causing some basket wobble, so I haven’t really loaded this
> up with too much weight since changing bikes.
>
> To clarify what I mean by adapting the brackets; I bought this basket
> locally at a discount as it was missing some of the hardware that would
> usually be included.  I first installed it on a bike for my wife but she
> determined she no longer wanted or needed such a large basket so to the
> parts box it went.  I wanted to use it on the taller Raleigh pictured
> earlier but the stock brackets made the basket sit both too high from the
> wheel and too close to the bars than desired (plus I had cut down the
> original struts for my wife’s installation so needed longer struts as
> well.)  I ended up buying a mounting kit for a Wald giant delivery basket
> to get new adjustable struts plus the offset L brackets.  Then I hammered
> out and flattened the stock U shaped bar brackets and bolted these at full
> length to the L brackets to get the bar drop and reach needed with the
> short reach but extended quill stem.  This worked great on the Raleigh
> shown but on the current Chocomoose & Schwinn build the reach of the
> Chocomoose cancels out the offset of the L brackets but still needed some
> of the extra drop so I flipped and rotated the entire assembly until the
> basket leveled.  It’s all 

Re: [RBW] Carrying groceries on your bike

[Patrick Moore]

How did the Clem handle with all that weight in the front, especially so
much of it so high? I've never been able to carry more than about 20 lb
comfortably (wrt handling) in the  Rivendells I've owned.

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 1:38 PM Coal Bee Rye Anne <
lionsrugbyalu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Many impressive bike (and scooter!) hauling examples here.  Going through
> some photo archives I’ve dug up some of my own hauling builds.
>
> One of my early Clem H builds with Surly front rack and crate.
>
> Raleigh Sports 3-speed preparing for Three-speed October ‘16.
>
> My ‘upsized’ Raleigh replacement basket bike from two autumns ago.  Now in
> basket less go-fast mode.
>
> Brian Cole
>
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> 
> .
>


-- 
-
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
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Re: [RBW] Carrying groceries on your bike

[Matthew Williams]

Not a Rivendell or even a bike, but here’s a guy who got creative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H27InrF_eIs
Man picks up Groceries on a Scooter!
youtube.com



> On Oct 17, 2023, at 2:00 PM, Kaveh Askari  wrote:
> 
> Strapping technique for when you go to the junk shop to pick up a couple of 
> buckets, and you find a working rowing machine for cheap. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 9:28:42 PM UTC-4 Paul in Dallas wrote:
> 
> 
> I know this probably has been discussed before.
> 
> If you use your bike for such errands what is your method of transporting 
> groceries or other items?
> 
> I have one bike with a rack and a large Wald basket that can handle a couple 
> bags of groceries but sometimes as I rotate through my bikes I use the method 
> pictured below of tying cloth sacks around the handlebar balancing the load.
> 
> I think this can be a risky method.
> 
> I need to find some decent grocery panniers.
> 
> Today I weighed these 2 sacks in bathroom scales.
> 
> Dang...36.2 pounds. Glad it was only 2 miles return trip .
> 
> Paul in Dallas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>  
> .
> 

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Re: [RBW] Carrying groceries on your bike

[Mark Schneider]

I use my old Litespeed MTN Bike. A demi-porteur rack supports a large 
Fabio's Chest, I load it up, often fully extended. A small Sackville saddle 
sack in the rear holding my lock and maybe some light items. Works okay, 
the bike handles the weight fine. I've also used my Suzie, the rear rack 
supports a large Wald Rack, and some cheap panniers, I'm going to mount the 
chest on the front and see how it works. I was kicking myself for selling 
my old medium Saddlesack, but the chest is a good replacement.
I've seen people do the bags tied to the handlebars, seemed sketchy, but 
I'm old and have enough trouble staying upright. 

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 9:45:57 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I've strapped saddlebags directly to the frame rails of my Flites. Here, 
> with Barley, but I've also used the gofast with a medium Sackville to carry 
> 30lb+ grocery loads. With the Saddlesack I use a Nitto wire guard to keep 
> the bag off the stays.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 10:37 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I've used baskets front and rear, saddlebags of various sizes and makes, 
>> and panniers on racks, and I always end up back with good panniers on a 
>> stout racks, either Tubus or custom. IME, stiff racks allow you to carry 
>> heavyish loads even on bikes with flexible frames -- I like my errand bikes 
>> to ride nicely unloaded; although I've used beaters my last few have been 
>> customs or nice Rivendell stock road models. My current Chauncey Matthews 
>> errand road bike is made of light, standard gauge tubing with custom front 
>> and rear racks and I've carried up to 50 lbs for short (<20 miles) 
>> distances without undue wobble. Sure, an Atlantis would be better for heavy 
>> loads but I would not find it as pleasant to ride unladen. (Funny, my best 
>> *rear* load carrier of all time was a very lightweight 531 1973 
>> Motobecane with 11 oz Tubus Fly rack.
>>
>> I've used various panniers but now favor Ortlieb backrollers, though I 
>> have to admit that the best grocery panniers of all time were made from 10 
>> gallon kitchen trash cans bought on sale at Target for $5 and strapped to a 
>> Tubus Fly using dowels.
>>
>> I'd be very wary of riding too far with loads slung from your handlebar 
>> as (1) the inertia makes steering far more ponderous and (2) the swinging 
>> actively throws steering off. I do confess to using this method myself 
>> occasionally after impromptu stops at the store while riding my gofast bike 
>> and the items won't fit in the musette I keep folded up in my seat pack, 
>> but then it's only 1/4 mile home.
>>
>> 46 lb load pictured, but I've carried 50 lb on this bike.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 7:28 PM st nick  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know this probably has been discussed before.
>>>
>>> If you use your bike for such errands what is your method of 
>>> transporting groceries or other items?
>>>
>>> I have one bike with a rack and a large Wald basket that can handle a 
>>> couple bags of groceries but sometimes as I rotate through my bikes I use 
>>> the method pictured below of tying cloth sacks around the handlebar 
>>> balancing the load.
>>>
>>> I think this can be a risky method.
>>>
>>> I need to find some decent grocery panniers.
>>>
>>> Today I weighed these 2 sacks in bathroom scales.
>>>
>>> Dang...36.2 pounds. Glad it was only 2 miles return trip .
>>>
>>> Paul in Dallas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/359549608.6330356.1696555696093%40mail.yahoo.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles,