[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Mike Godwin]

Try Specialize Roubaix Pro 700x 30-32. They run 31 mm wide, have nice round 
profile on Velocity Aerohead rims.

Mike SLO CA

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 2:33:46 AM UTC-7, Paul in Dallas wrote:

> Hopefully a month ago for the last post
> is not too long to resurrect this thread.
>
> On impulse I bought a pair of the Challenge Strada Bianca in the 700x36 
> size to try on my Sam Hillbourne.
>
> It took me about 20 minutes per tire to mount them on Dyad 24mm wide rims.
>
> After inflating I'm getting 36mm wide initially.
>
> I used velcro strips to hold in place as I worked my way around.
>
> It wasn't terrible but it was tedious.
> I went round and round several times b4 inflating to check for possible 
> pinching of the tube.
>
> I'm tempted to take a light easy to mount folding tire in my bag just in 
> case I get a flat.
>
> From what some have said they will get a bit easier to mount over time.
>
> It will be interesting to see how they ride.
>
> After reading this thread I'm wondering why I didn't just order some Rene 
> Herse.
>
> Paul in Dallas 
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Aaron Thomas]

Paul, thank you, this is helpful. 

I'd be using the Soma Supples on Velocity A23 rims, which have an internal 
width of 18 mm. Sounds like it should be right around 32 or 33, which is 
what I'm looking for. I have been using Jack Brown greens (33) and 
Panaracer GravelKings (32), and just want to mix it up a bit with something 
else in that ballpark — but with the lightweight performance casing.

I was using the Challenge Strada Bianca "open tubular" in 30 mm, and loved 
the ride, but have had some issues with them blowing off my A23 rims (but 
not on Mavic Open Pro), so I'm sticking with clinchers for my A23 wheels. 
I'm going to give the Soma Supple a try. Thanks!

Aaron

On Saturday, August 15, 2020 at 3:06:05 PM UTC-7, Paul Brodek wrote:
>
> Forgive the self-reply, just wanted to add a data chunk.
>
> Checked two different Soma SV SL 33s on vintage Mavic MA40 rims, spec 
> 13.5mm internal width, and got a pretty sold 30mm at 80psi. So 30mm wide on 
> 13.5mm rims, 33mm on 19mm rims. 
>
> Thus my disappointment at the SV SL 28s being 27mm on 13mm rims.
>
> The 33s are "accurate on wide/undersized" and the 28s are "accurate on 
> narrow/oversized." 
>
> I just got some Vittoria Corsa Graphene+ 28mm skinwalls for the Merckx. If 
> they're too wide/tall, it'll have to be the Conti 5k blackwalls. Was hoping 
> for skinwalls on the Merckx, but I'm not willing to throw more money at 
> Veloflex or something else, especially considering I don't have many/any 
> other bikes this tight in the herd.
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>
> On Friday, August 14, 2020 at 11:44:55 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:
>>
>> Hey Aaron,
>>
>> This could turn into another of my tire rants, but it's getting late and 
>> I'm getting sleepy.
>>
>> All's I'm gonna say right now is, I can no longer simply use the term 
>> "accurate" in regard to labeled tire widths. Actual tire width is dependent 
>> on the tire itself, natch, but also the width of the rim and the final tire 
>> pressure. Since I started dabbling in vintage builds again, my rims now 
>> range from 13mm internal width (Mavic Open 4 CD) to 21mm (HED Belgium+). 
>> That 8mm width differential results in significant differences in actual 
>> tire widths. 
>>
>> Luckily I don't have any wide-ass gravel/all-road/atb rims, which can 
>> make 21mm look skinny. Then I'd be making myself even nutsier.
>>
>> So now I have to use a whole bunch of qualifiers: "accurate on narrower 
>> rims" or "accurate on wider rims." I think of "accurate on narrower rims" 
>> as "oversized," and "accurate on wider rims" as "undersized," but that 
>> still only has meaning when you're including rim widths in the discussion. 
>> I suppose that's relatively understandable, but if the tire mfrs would just 
>> standardize their width labeling, life would be so much easier.
>>
>> The tire labeling doesn't tell us what rim width they're using to measure 
>> the width, or a what tire pressure they're measuring. There's also the 
>> issue that tires sometimes pop out of new molds either a little 
>> undersized/oversized from what the designers intended, which only compounds 
>> (is that pun-ish? punish??) the problem. 622-33-19-80 (622 tire is 33mm on 
>> 19mm-width rim at 80psi) could be what's in the mold, but what happens when 
>> the tire pops out and ps! it's actually 31mm or 35mm at 19/80?
>>
>> End of rant.
>>
>> In general I find the wider Soma SVs to be accurate on wider rims, or a 
>> little undersized, so the 33s will reach 33mm on 19-21mm-ish internal-width 
>> rims and normal/high-ish riding pressures. I just checked one on a 19mm 
>> Belguim+ rim, 21mm internal width, and it was just a hair over 33mm (like 
>> 33.1-33.2mm) at 80psi. If you're using narrower rims, and/or running lower 
>> pressure, they should be a little bit narrower.
>>
>> There could be sample variation, and also variation within the line. I'd 
>> never used Supple Vitesse 28s, but just got a pair hoping they'd be 
>> undersized enough to work on my Merckx, which has the 19mm Mavic Open 4 CD 
>> rims. I figured if they were like the 33s, and wouldn't hit 28mm till they 
>> got on wide rims, they shouldn't get above 26.5mm or so on a 13mm rim. They 
>> wound up pretty much at 27.0-27.4mm on those 13mm rims, which was a good 
>> 0.5-1.0mm too wide/tall for the Merckx. If they're only 1mm "undersized" on 
>> 13mm rims, they're going to be oversized on 19-21mm rims. I haven't tried 
>> them on a wider rim yet to see how wide they get, might get around to it 
>> before the weekend is out.
>>
>> Can't help you much with comparative flat results. Hopefully the tire 
>> gods won't be listening when I say I don't puncture often. And I mostly 
>> ride the SLs, so I don't have a basis to make a great comparison.
>>
>> Paul Brodek
>> Hillsdale, NJ USA  
>>
>> On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 2:10:00 AM UTC-4, Aaron Thomas wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul, 
>>>
>>> Regarding the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, how accurate are the size 
>>> 

[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

Forgive the self-reply, just wanted to add a data chunk.

Checked two different Soma SV SL 33s on vintage Mavic MA40 rims, spec 
13.5mm internal width, and got a pretty sold 30mm at 80psi. So 30mm wide on 
13.5mm rims, 33mm on 19mm rims. 

Thus my disappointment at the SV SL 28s being 27mm on 13mm rims.

The 33s are "accurate on wide/undersized" and the 28s are "accurate on 
narrow/oversized." 

I just got some Vittoria Corsa Graphene+ 28mm skinwalls for the Merckx. If 
they're too wide/tall, it'll have to be the Conti 5k blackwalls. Was hoping 
for skinwalls on the Merckx, but I'm not willing to throw more money at 
Veloflex or something else, especially considering I don't have many/any 
other bikes this tight in the herd.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Friday, August 14, 2020 at 11:44:55 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:
>
> Hey Aaron,
>
> This could turn into another of my tire rants, but it's getting late and 
> I'm getting sleepy.
>
> All's I'm gonna say right now is, I can no longer simply use the term 
> "accurate" in regard to labeled tire widths. Actual tire width is dependent 
> on the tire itself, natch, but also the width of the rim and the final tire 
> pressure. Since I started dabbling in vintage builds again, my rims now 
> range from 13mm internal width (Mavic Open 4 CD) to 21mm (HED Belgium+). 
> That 8mm width differential results in significant differences in actual 
> tire widths. 
>
> Luckily I don't have any wide-ass gravel/all-road/atb rims, which can make 
> 21mm look skinny. Then I'd be making myself even nutsier.
>
> So now I have to use a whole bunch of qualifiers: "accurate on narrower 
> rims" or "accurate on wider rims." I think of "accurate on narrower rims" 
> as "oversized," and "accurate on wider rims" as "undersized," but that 
> still only has meaning when you're including rim widths in the discussion. 
> I suppose that's relatively understandable, but if the tire mfrs would just 
> standardize their width labeling, life would be so much easier.
>
> The tire labeling doesn't tell us what rim width they're using to measure 
> the width, or a what tire pressure they're measuring. There's also the 
> issue that tires sometimes pop out of new molds either a little 
> undersized/oversized from what the designers intended, which only compounds 
> (is that pun-ish? punish??) the problem. 622-33-19-80 (622 tire is 33mm on 
> 19mm-width rim at 80psi) could be what's in the mold, but what happens when 
> the tire pops out and ps! it's actually 31mm or 35mm at 19/80?
>
> End of rant.
>
> In general I find the wider Soma SVs to be accurate on wider rims, or a 
> little undersized, so the 33s will reach 33mm on 19-21mm-ish internal-width 
> rims and normal/high-ish riding pressures. I just checked one on a 19mm 
> Belguim+ rim, 21mm internal width, and it was just a hair over 33mm (like 
> 33.1-33.2mm) at 80psi. If you're using narrower rims, and/or running lower 
> pressure, they should be a little bit narrower.
>
> There could be sample variation, and also variation within the line. I'd 
> never used Supple Vitesse 28s, but just got a pair hoping they'd be 
> undersized enough to work on my Merckx, which has the 19mm Mavic Open 4 CD 
> rims. I figured if they were like the 33s, and wouldn't hit 28mm till they 
> got on wide rims, they shouldn't get above 26.5mm or so on a 13mm rim. They 
> wound up pretty much at 27.0-27.4mm on those 13mm rims, which was a good 
> 0.5-1.0mm too wide/tall for the Merckx. If they're only 1mm "undersized" on 
> 13mm rims, they're going to be oversized on 19-21mm rims. I haven't tried 
> them on a wider rim yet to see how wide they get, might get around to it 
> before the weekend is out.
>
> Can't help you much with comparative flat results. Hopefully the tire gods 
> won't be listening when I say I don't puncture often. And I mostly ride the 
> SLs, so I don't have a basis to make a great comparison.
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA  
>
> On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 2:10:00 AM UTC-4, Aaron Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Paul, 
>>
>> Regarding the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, how accurate are the size 
>> designations when inflated? Or perhaps more to the point, if you have used 
>> the 33 mm, is it truly in the ballpark of 33? I bought some Challenge tires 
>> labeled 33 mm but they inflated to nearly 37 mm! 
>>
>> Secondly, in your experience, how puncture prone is the extralight 
>> version compared to the standard version?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Aaron 
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 5:35:52 PM UTC-7, Paul Brodek wrote:
>>>
>>> You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him 
>>> on ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see 
>>> what he may have in stock.
>>>
>>> Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
>>> covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
>>> DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems 
>>> to be 

[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

Wow, that is mega-weird, though I am kinda remembering hearing/seeing that 
creeping problem before, on a forum. Can't recall if it was for the same 
brand/tire, though.

Maybe the fact that you didn't have trouble mounting them was a sign? IE, 
Challenge tires need a tighter fit to prevent creeping? Couldn't guess 
why/how/huh?

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Friday, August 14, 2020 at 11:58:39 PM UTC-4, Nick Payne wrote:
>
> Re the Challenge Strada Bianca 700 x 30, I didn't have problems mounting 
> them, but I had to retire them because the braking force was making the 
> tyres gradually creep around the rim until the valve got ripped out of the 
> tube. The rims are Mavic MA2 - been using them for years with multiple 
> other brands of tyre with no such problem, and the GP5000 700x32 I fitted 
> after removing the Strada Bianca tyres didn't have the problem when 
> inflated to the same pressure. Here's what the wheel would look like 
> after a ride of 40-50km, and the valve was straight at the start of the 
> ride:
>
>
> 
>
> Nick
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Nick Payne]

Re the Challenge Strada Bianca 700 x 30, I didn't have problems mounting 
them, but I had to retire them because the braking force was making the 
tyres gradually creep around the rim until the valve got ripped out of the 
tube. The rims are Mavic MA2 - been using them for years with multiple 
other brands of tyre with no such problem, and the GP5000 700x32 I fitted 
after removing the Strada Bianca tyres didn't have the problem when 
inflated to the same pressure. Here's what the wheel would look like after 
a ride of 40-50km, and the valve was straight at the start of the ride:



Nick

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

Hey Aaron,

This could turn into another of my tire rants, but it's getting late and 
I'm getting sleepy.

All's I'm gonna say right now is, I can no longer simply use the term 
"accurate" in regard to labeled tire widths. Actual tire width is dependent 
on the tire itself, natch, but also the width of the rim and the final tire 
pressure. Since I started dabbling in vintage builds again, my rims now 
range from 13mm internal width (Mavic Open 4 CD) to 21mm (HED Belgium+). 
That 8mm width differential results in significant differences in actual 
tire widths. 

Luckily I don't have any wide-ass gravel/all-road/atb rims, which can make 
21mm look skinny. Then I'd be making myself even nutsier.

So now I have to use a whole bunch of qualifiers: "accurate on narrower 
rims" or "accurate on wider rims." I think of "accurate on narrower rims" 
as "oversized," and "accurate on wider rims" as "undersized," but that 
still only has meaning when you're including rim widths in the discussion. 
I suppose that's relatively understandable, but if the tire mfrs would just 
standardize their width labeling, life would be so much easier.

The tire labeling doesn't tell us what rim width they're using to measure 
the width, or a what tire pressure they're measuring. There's also the 
issue that tires sometimes pop out of new molds either a little 
undersized/oversized from what the designers intended, which only compounds 
(is that pun-ish? punish??) the problem. 622-33-19-80 (622 tire is 33mm on 
19mm-width rim at 80psi) could be what's in the mold, but what happens when 
the tire pops out and ps! it's actually 31mm or 35mm at 19/80?

End of rant.

In general I find the wider Soma SVs to be accurate on wider rims, or a 
little undersized, so the 33s will reach 33mm on 19-21mm-ish internal-width 
rims and normal/high-ish riding pressures. I just checked one on a 19mm 
Belguim+ rim, 21mm internal width, and it was just a hair over 33mm (like 
33.1-33.2mm) at 80psi. If you're using narrower rims, and/or running lower 
pressure, they should be a little bit narrower.

There could be sample variation, and also variation within the line. I'd 
never used Supple Vitesse 28s, but just got a pair hoping they'd be 
undersized enough to work on my Merckx, which has the 19mm Mavic Open 4 CD 
rims. I figured if they were like the 33s, and wouldn't hit 28mm till they 
got on wide rims, they shouldn't get above 26.5mm or so on a 13mm rim. They 
wound up pretty much at 27.0-27.4mm on those 13mm rims, which was a good 
0.5-1.0mm too wide/tall for the Merckx. If they're only 1mm "undersized" on 
13mm rims, they're going to be oversized on 19-21mm rims. I haven't tried 
them on a wider rim yet to see how wide they get, might get around to it 
before the weekend is out.

Can't help you much with comparative flat results. Hopefully the tire gods 
won't be listening when I say I don't puncture often. And I mostly ride the 
SLs, so I don't have a basis to make a great comparison.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA  

On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 2:10:00 AM UTC-4, Aaron Thomas wrote:
>
> Paul, 
>
> Regarding the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, how accurate are the size 
> designations when inflated? Or perhaps more to the point, if you have used 
> the 33 mm, is it truly in the ballpark of 33? I bought some Challenge tires 
> labeled 33 mm but they inflated to nearly 37 mm! 
>
> Secondly, in your experience, how puncture prone is the extralight version 
> compared to the standard version?
>
> Thanks,
> Aaron 
>
> On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 5:35:52 PM UTC-7, Paul Brodek wrote:
>>
>> You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him 
>> on ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see 
>> what he may have in stock.
>>
>> Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
>> covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
>> DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems 
>> to be getting back to a quasi-normal.
>>
>> Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another 
>> high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a 
>> lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are 
>> generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to 
>> wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush. 
>> ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.
>>
>> The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open 
>> tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of 
>> the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless 
>> tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I 
>> can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount 
>> of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and 
>> only when death is 

[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Aaron Thomas]

Paul, 

Regarding the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, how accurate are the size 
designations when inflated? Or perhaps more to the point, if you have used 
the 33 mm, is it truly in the ballpark of 33? I bought some Challenge tires 
labeled 33 mm but they inflated to nearly 37 mm! 

Secondly, in your experience, how puncture prone is the extralight version 
compared to the standard version?

Thanks,
Aaron 

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 5:35:52 PM UTC-7, Paul Brodek wrote:
>
> You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him on 
> ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see what 
> he may have in stock.
>
> Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
> covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
> DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems 
> to be getting back to a quasi-normal.
>
> Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another 
> high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a 
> lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are 
> generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to 
> wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush. 
> ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.
>
> The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open 
> tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of 
> the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless 
> tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I 
> can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount 
> of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and 
> only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will 
> I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I 
> recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just 
> beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb 
> pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent 
> mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I 
> recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next 
> time around. 
>
> [image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
> I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting 
> experience, in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting 
> Challenge tires is easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a 
> flat magnet!" "I ride mine thousands of miles and never get a flat." Like 
> that...) One man's death fit is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see 
> the need to have a video on their website showing their preferred mounting 
> technique. And boy howdy the dude in the video doesn't seem to struggle 
> like I do. I've bought more than one pair near-new from somebody on a forum 
> who gave up trying to install them. So it ain't just me.
>
> But they are dead sexy.
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>
> On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>
>> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to 
>> have been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still 
>> be obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
>> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
>> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami  
>>
>> Sam Hillborne
>> Legolas
>> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
>> '94 RBT
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Jim Bronson]

Patrick,

I think the quantity of goathorn thorns you encounter in somewhat lowland
New Mexico (meaning, lower than Santa Fe) is somewhat atypical to many
places in the US.

However, running fairly new Pari-Motos on a rainy ACP 600K a few years
back, I once had FIVE flats on the first day, which was roughly 240 miles,
and on the 2nd day of the ride, I had a 6th flat coming right out of the
gate.  Thankfully it dried out shortly thereafter and my last tube held for
the last 120 miles or so.  Had it not, I would have been patching tubes on
the side of the road, which would have been a real problem on the timed
event I was on - the 2nd day was a straight north out and back, and I was
facing a 20+ mph north wind with gusts to 30+ after the cold front
passage.  I arrived at the turnaround control with three minutes to spare.
Another flat would have meant I timed out at the turnaround control.

Thankfully with the stiff tailwind going back to the start, I was able to
finish with almost two hours to spare, we averaged 25-30 mph on the way
back with the wind at our back, expending not very much effort to boot..
Yes, riding my 90s Rivendell Road Standard/Custom (never been sure which)

I switched to Compass LoupLoup the following weekend and with the thicker
on-center tread I've had far less flat even on rainy rides.  Compass tires
are not as flat resistant as say Continental Gatorskins but they represent
a good balance between rolling resistance and flat resistance for my uses.
But the Pari-Motos are just too much.  They ride wonderfully when they do
happen to hold air, but the flat resistance is negligible.

Jim
Austin MSA, TX.



On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 2:22 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I have to laugh. *One* flat every *300* miles? *Three hundred Miles???* *THREE
> HUNDRED MILES?*
>
> When I first mounted original issue PRs on my then-Ram, I got a flat every *5
> (five) (V)* miles, no kidding; I think it was 4 during that first ride;
> yes, I was relatively inured to punctures, took in stride 1 per 20-30
> miles, and carried a battery of remedies including 2 tubes and a full patch
> kit; but 1:5 was a bit much even for me.
>
> Enter, stage left, with drums and canon: *Sealant!* First Stan's, then
> the better (IME) Orange Seal (Endurance for low press tubeless, full-cream
> for tubes). I now ride 175-gram Elk Passes through fields of goatheads,
> laughing scornfully at their feeble agression.
>
> The Challenges are RH EL quality. I am torn between the Challenge
> clinchers and real tubulars for my Libertas build; advise me, O ye wize
> ones.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 5:06:25 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
> >
> > Having experienced Challenge open tubulars in the form of Parigi Roubaix
> I have to decry Paul's understatement of the extent of the problem.
>  Literally the worst tires to mount I've ever used.   Fabulous ride, but at
> best when brand new and at full thickness I got 1 flat every 300 miles, and
> it went downhill from there as they wore.  To be fair, after they'd been
> mounted for a couple of weeks, it became easier to get them on and off, but
> the initial experience was suitable for Ripley's Believe it or Not.
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[S. Greco]

I really love the Cypres, and I have ridden the compass equivalent. 
They are super similar, but don't compare IMHO. 
There's some magic in then cypress. What a time to be alive with all these 
amazing tire options :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 6/25/20 3:09 PM, Paul Brodek wrote:
Hey Steve, do I peer through the cobwebs of my mind to see that you 
might be one of the fellas I bought a pair of Challenge tires from 
after your trials and tribulations?



No, not me.  I got one pair as a gift (the owner tried mounting them and 
gave up) and bought a pair (from someone who tried mounting them and 
gave up) but I've never sold a pair.




I've probably related this before, but several/many years back when 
trying to install Parigi-Roubaixs on modern, maybe H+Sons Archetype 
rims?, when trying to roll the last bit of bead over the rim sidewall, 
the tire tried to scrape off the top layer of skin from my entire 
right palm. It gave me the largest blister I've ever had in my entire 
life, and...well, I won't go into detail, but I had to find the 
largest possible band-aids for large wounds, and it took weeks to 
heal. That was the last time I messed with Challenge tires until this 
last pair of Strada Bianca Pros. They didn't wound me this time, but I 
did wonder why I was bothering. Until I saw how round and puffy they are.



I had to use a toe strap to keep the tire on the rim just to mount the 
first bead - and I needed to use tools to do it, too. Just ridiculous.  
A sublime ride, but the mean time between flats was very short, as was 
their service life.   You can get the same or better ride with a lot 
less hassle with other options.



--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Patrick Moore]

I agree, FWIW; I can't see the use of tubeless for narrow, high pressure,
given that, at least IME, sealants work well in tubes at road pressures,
and in tubeless at low pressures.

As for mess, even with sealant at low, ~20 psi pressure, even through with
Orange Seal (versus Stan's) most punctures seal within a few wheel
revolutions, there is still enough squirt that every 4th cleaning or so
requires solvents and sweat to remove the stuff flung over the frame tho'
fenders help a great deal.

With sealant in tubes at road pressures (60 psi max, usually 50 psi or even
less -- 29 mm and 27 mm actual on, respectively, 21 mm and 19 mm outside
rims), OS Regular works well, and the good news is that when a tube is
breached, the sealant leaks within the casing, leaving you, perhaps, with
great puddles of the stuff inside the tire, but little outside on the frame
or your person. I carry a rag in each kit bag expressly for wiping up
sealant spills.

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 1:21 PM Paul Brodek  wrote:

> Not to segue too far afield, but aside from the Moore brothers' dystopian
> Goathead Hell, I don't get skinny road tubeless as a concept. Skinny tire
> pressure is so much higher, I can't see the sealant helping with anything
> but pretty tiny punctures, and even that gets real messy. I rode
> behind/beside a nice lady on a club ride with 'em, she had picked up
> somethin', and for more than a couple of miles her rear tire was spewing
> sealant all over the frame and rear brake. Yeah, she was able to keep
> riding, but that tire got mighty soft before it stopped spewing, and left a
> real mess to deal with. She doesn't do any wrenching, but if it wasn't
> tubeless we could've replaced the tube in 5 minutes or so and been on our
> way. Thank goodness it happened late in the ride when we were near the
> start, because if she needed a tube to get home I sure didn't want to have
> to dive into that yuck.
>
> I checked out the hole when we got back, it was a pretty tiny glass shard.
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 7:27:09 PM UTC-4, Ryan M. wrote:
>>
>> Mounting a set of road tubeless tires onto carbon rims for my Trek Emonda
>> (back when I rode that kind of bike) made me sell the wheels and the
>> tires...I’m not sure if the new owner could get the tires off the rim, they
>> were that tight. A total PITA. My bet is he cut them off with an exacto
>> knife. I’d rather deal with tubulars.  I never had a problem with higher
>> volume tubeless so I thought I’d give skinny road tubeless a shot. I do
>> wish my wife recorded me trying to put those tires on the rim.
>>
>> The Rene Herse Stampede Pass are 32mm wide and they are pretty nice. I’d
>> recommend them.
>
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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Patrick Moore]

I have to laugh. *One* flat every *300* miles? *Three hundred Miles???* *THREE
HUNDRED MILES?*

When I first mounted original issue PRs on my then-Ram, I got a flat every *5
(five) (V)* miles, no kidding; I think it was 4 during that first ride;
yes, I was relatively inured to punctures, took in stride 1 per 20-30
miles, and carried a battery of remedies including 2 tubes and a full patch
kit; but 1:5 was a bit much even for me.

Enter, stage left, with drums and canon: *Sealant!* First Stan's, then the
better (IME) Orange Seal (Endurance for low press tubeless, full-cream for
tubes). I now ride 175-gram Elk Passes through fields of goatheads,
laughing scornfully at their feeble agression.

The Challenges are RH EL quality. I am torn between the Challenge clinchers
and real tubulars for my Libertas build; advise me, O ye wize ones.



On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 5:06:25 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Having experienced Challenge open tubulars in the form of Parigi Roubaix
I have to decry Paul's understatement of the extent of the problem.
 Literally the worst tires to mount I've ever used.   Fabulous ride, but at
best when brand new and at full thickness I got 1 flat every 300 miles, and
it went downhill from there as they wore.  To be fair, after they'd been
mounted for a couple of weeks, it became easier to get them on and off, but
the initial experience was suitable for Ripley's Believe it or Not.

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

Not to segue too far afield, but aside from the Moore brothers' dystopian 
Goathead Hell, I don't get skinny road tubeless as a concept. Skinny tire 
pressure is so much higher, I can't see the sealant helping with anything 
but pretty tiny punctures, and even that gets real messy. I rode 
behind/beside a nice lady on a club ride with 'em, she had picked up 
somethin', and for more than a couple of miles her rear tire was spewing 
sealant all over the frame and rear brake. Yeah, she was able to keep 
riding, but that tire got mighty soft before it stopped spewing, and left a 
real mess to deal with. She doesn't do any wrenching, but if it wasn't 
tubeless we could've replaced the tube in 5 minutes or so and been on our 
way. Thank goodness it happened late in the ride when we were near the 
start, because if she needed a tube to get home I sure didn't want to have 
to dive into that yuck.

I checked out the hole when we got back, it was a pretty tiny glass shard.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 7:27:09 PM UTC-4, Ryan M. wrote:
>
> Mounting a set of road tubeless tires onto carbon rims for my Trek Emonda 
> (back when I rode that kind of bike) made me sell the wheels and the 
> tires...I’m not sure if the new owner could get the tires off the rim, they 
> were that tight. A total PITA. My bet is he cut them off with an exacto 
> knife. I’d rather deal with tubulars.  I never had a problem with higher 
> volume tubeless so I thought I’d give skinny road tubeless a shot. I do 
> wish my wife recorded me trying to put those tires on the rim. 
>
> The Rene Herse Stampede Pass are 32mm wide and they are pretty nice. I’d 
> recommend them.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

Hey Steve, do I peer through the cobwebs of my mind to see that you might 
be one of the fellas I bought a pair of Challenge tires from after your 
trials and tribulations?

I've probably related this before, but several/many years back when trying 
to install Parigi-Roubaixs on modern, maybe H+Sons Archetype rims?, when 
trying to roll the last bit of bead over the rim sidewall, the tire tried 
to scrape off the top layer of skin from my entire right palm. It gave me 
the largest blister I've ever had in my entire life, and...well, I won't go 
into detail, but I had to find the largest possible band-aids for large 
wounds, and it took weeks to heal. That was the last time I messed with 
Challenge tires until this last pair of Strada Bianca Pros. They didn't 
wound me this time, but I did wonder why I was bothering. Until I saw how 
round and puffy they are.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 5:06:25 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Having experienced Challenge open tubulars in the form of Parigi Roubaix I 
> have to decry Paul's understatement of the extent of the problem.
> Literally the worst tires to mount I've ever used.   Fabulous ride, but at 
> best when brand new and at full thickness I got 1 flat every 300 miles, and 
> it went downhill from there as they wore.  To be fair, after they'd been 
> mounted for a couple of weeks, it became easier to get them on and off, but 
> the initial experience was suitable for Ripley's Believe it or Not.
> On 6/24/20 5:01 PM, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
> Just so well written, so well told, Paul; sorry for your tire agonies but 
> grateful fhe shared experience.
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 4:58 PM Paul Brodek  > wrote:
>
>> Gee, thanks guys! Always happy when my pain and suffering provide some 
>> yucks.
>>
>> Paul Brodek
>> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 2:29:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote: 
>>>
>>> +1 on praise for Paul's post--it was the best read, the best laugh, I 
>>> have enjoyed this week.  And thanks to all of you for sharing your views 
>>> and information . . . I never *tire *of reading them.  --Tom
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:31 PM Jock Dewey  wrote:
>>>
 Hey, Paul: 

 Your posts are always* the best*, enjoy reading every one of 
 them...and some of our conversations, too. 

 Especially your tire ovations.

 I say this, because it is *important & necessary* that tires look good 
 and make proper sounds on good pavement. It's the only music I listen to 
 out on the road.

 BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

 On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 8:35:52 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote: 
>
> You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from 
> him on ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to 
> see what he may have in stock.
>
> Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
> covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
> DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan 
> seems 
> to be getting back to a quasi-normal.
>
> Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another 
> high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a 
> lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are 
> generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help 
> to 
> wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush. 
> ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.
>
> The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open 
> tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of 
> the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use 
> tubeless 
> tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but 
> I 
> can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to 
> mount 
> of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and 
> only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) 
> will 
> I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I 
> recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just 
> beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb 
> pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent 
> mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. 
> I 
> recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next 
> time around. 
>
> [image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
> I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting 
> experience, in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting 
> Challenge tires is 

[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Ryan M.]

Mounting a set of road tubeless tires onto carbon rims for my Trek Emonda (back 
when I rode that kind of bike) made me sell the wheels and the tires...I’m not 
sure if the new owner could get the tires off the rim, they were that tight. A 
total PITA. My bet is he cut them off with an exacto knife. I’d rather deal 
with tubulars.  I never had a problem with higher volume tubeless so I thought 
I’d give skinny road tubeless a shot. I do wish my wife recorded me trying to 
put those tires on the rim.

The Rene Herse Stampede Pass are 32mm wide and they are pretty nice. I’d 
recommend them.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Steve Palincsar]

Having experienced Challenge open tubulars in the form of Parigi Roubaix 
I have to decry Paul's understatement of the extent of the problem.    
Literally the worst tires to mount I've ever used.   Fabulous ride, but 
at best when brand new and at full thickness I got 1 flat every 300 
miles, and it went downhill from there as they wore.  To be fair, after 
they'd been mounted for a couple of weeks, it became easier to get them 
on and off, but the initial experience was suitable for Ripley's Believe 
it or Not.


On 6/24/20 5:01 PM, Tom Goodmann wrote:
Just so well written, so well told, Paul; sorry for your tire agonies 
but grateful fhe shared experience.


On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 4:58 PM Paul Brodek > wrote:


Gee, thanks guys! Always happy when my pain and suffering provide
some yucks.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 2:29:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:

+1 on praise for Paul's post--it was the best read, the best
laugh, I have enjoyed this week. And thanks to all of you for
sharing your views and information . . . I never /tire /of
reading them.  --Tom

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:31 PM Jock Dewey
 wrote:

Hey, Paul:

Your posts are always/the best/, enjoy reading every one
of them...and some of our conversations, too.

Especially your tire ovations.

I say this, because it is *important & necessary* that
tires look good and make proper sounds on good pavement.
It's the only music I listen to out on the road.

BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 8:35:52 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek
wrote:

You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already
mentioned, or buy from him on ebay. He's always got
listings for tires there, makes it handy to see what
he may have in stock.

Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth
for me. Recent covid-related shipping issues have
cropped up, they switched from EMS to DHL when delays
kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan
seems to be getting back to a quasi-normal.

Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires,
which are another high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a
US-based brand/company. I use 'em a lot, like 'em a
lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are
generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy
direct, might help to wait for one of their
occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush.
ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on
them.

The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware
they are "open tubular" design, not vulcanized, so
they lay flat against the rim out of the package, with
no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use
tubeless tires, so I can't compare mounting a
Challenge open tubular to those, but I can say that
Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires
to mount of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+.
I'm cranky and stubborn, and only when death is the
only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will I
use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close
with Challenge. I recently got some fat, puffy Strada
Bianca Pros, and they look just beautiful, but every
time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb
pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time
inflated, subsequent mounting isn't inordinately
difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I
recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my
palms and thumbs next time around.

49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg

I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to
flatting experience, in that it is a certainty that
someone else thinks mounting Challenge tires is
easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a
flat magnet!" "I ride mine thousands of miles and
never get a flat." Like that...) One man's death fit
is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see the need
to have a video on their website showing their
preferred mounting technique. And boy howdy the dude
in the video doesn't seem to struggle like I do. I've
bought more than one pair near-new from somebody on a
 

Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Tom Goodmann]

Just so well written, so well told, Paul; sorry for your tire agonies but
grateful fhe shared experience.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 4:58 PM Paul Brodek  wrote:

> Gee, thanks guys! Always happy when my pain and suffering provide some
> yucks.
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 2:29:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>
>> +1 on praise for Paul's post--it was the best read, the best laugh, I
>> have enjoyed this week.  And thanks to all of you for sharing your views
>> and information . . . I never *tire *of reading them.  --Tom
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:31 PM Jock Dewey  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, Paul:
>>>
>>> Your posts are always* the best*, enjoy reading every one of them...and
>>> some of our conversations, too.
>>>
>>> Especially your tire ovations.
>>>
>>> I say this, because it is *important & necessary* that tires look good
>>> and make proper sounds on good pavement. It's the only music I listen to
>>> out on the road.
>>>
>>> BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 8:35:52 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:

 You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him
 on ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see
 what he may have in stock.

 Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent
 covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to
 DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems
 to be getting back to a quasi-normal.

 Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another
 high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a
 lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are
 generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to
 wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush.
 ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.

 The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open
 tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of
 the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless
 tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I
 can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount
 of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and
 only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will
 I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I
 recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just
 beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb
 pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent
 mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I
 recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next
 time around.

 [image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
 I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting
 experience, in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting
 Challenge tires is easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a
 flat magnet!" "I ride mine thousands of miles and never get a flat." Like
 that...) One man's death fit is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see
 the need to have a video on their website showing their preferred mounting
 technique. And boy howdy the dude in the video doesn't seem to struggle
 like I do. I've bought more than one pair near-new from somebody on a forum
 who gave up trying to install them. So it ain't just me.

 But they are dead sexy.

 Paul Brodek
 Hillsdale, NJ USA

 On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to
> have been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still
> be obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?
> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in
> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami
>
> Sam Hillborne
> Legolas
> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
> '94 RBT
>
 --
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>>> 

[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

Thanks, Jock. 

Amen to the music of good rubber on smooth asphalt! Hopefully, from a 
performance standpoint, that's a good thing, too. I'd hate to find out my 
favorite sound in the world was evidence of excess tire/surface friction...

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 1:31:02 PM UTC-4, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Hey, Paul:
>
> Your posts are always* the best*, enjoy reading every one of them...and 
> some of our conversations, too. 
>
> Especially your tire ovations.
>
> I say this, because it is *important & necessary* that tires look good 
> and make proper sounds on good pavement. It's the only music I listen to 
> out on the road.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>
> On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 8:35:52 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:
>>
>> You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him 
>> on ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see 
>> what he may have in stock.
>>
>> Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
>> covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
>> DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems 
>> to be getting back to a quasi-normal.
>>
>> Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another 
>> high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a 
>> lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are 
>> generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to 
>> wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush. 
>> ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.
>>
>> The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open 
>> tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of 
>> the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless 
>> tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I 
>> can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount 
>> of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and 
>> only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will 
>> I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I 
>> recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just 
>> beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb 
>> pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent 
>> mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I 
>> recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next 
>> time around. 
>>
>> [image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
>> I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting 
>> experience, in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting 
>> Challenge tires is easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a 
>> flat magnet!" "I ride mine thousands of miles and never get a flat." Like 
>> that...) One man's death fit is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see 
>> the need to have a video on their website showing their preferred mounting 
>> technique. And boy howdy the dude in the video doesn't seem to struggle 
>> like I do. I've bought more than one pair near-new from somebody on a forum 
>> who gave up trying to install them. So it ain't just me.
>>
>> But they are dead sexy.
>>
>> Paul Brodek
>> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>>
>> On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>>
>>> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to 
>>> have been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still 
>>> be obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
>>> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
>>> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami  
>>>
>>> Sam Hillborne
>>> Legolas
>>> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
>>> '94 RBT
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

Gee, thanks guys! Always happy when my pain and suffering provide some 
yucks.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 2:29:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
> +1 on praise for Paul's post--it was the best read, the best laugh, I have 
> enjoyed this week.  And thanks to all of you for sharing your views and 
> information . . . I never *tire *of reading them.  --Tom
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:31 PM Jock Dewey  > wrote:
>
>> Hey, Paul:
>>
>> Your posts are always* the best*, enjoy reading every one of them...and 
>> some of our conversations, too. 
>>
>> Especially your tire ovations.
>>
>> I say this, because it is *important & necessary* that tires look good 
>> and make proper sounds on good pavement. It's the only music I listen to 
>> out on the road.
>>
>> BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 8:35:52 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:
>>>
>>> You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him 
>>> on ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see 
>>> what he may have in stock.
>>>
>>> Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
>>> covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
>>> DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems 
>>> to be getting back to a quasi-normal.
>>>
>>> Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another 
>>> high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a 
>>> lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are 
>>> generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to 
>>> wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush. 
>>> ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.
>>>
>>> The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open 
>>> tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of 
>>> the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless 
>>> tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I 
>>> can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount 
>>> of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and 
>>> only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will 
>>> I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I 
>>> recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just 
>>> beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb 
>>> pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent 
>>> mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I 
>>> recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next 
>>> time around. 
>>>
>>> [image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
>>> I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting 
>>> experience, in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting 
>>> Challenge tires is easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a 
>>> flat magnet!" "I ride mine thousands of miles and never get a flat." Like 
>>> that...) One man's death fit is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see 
>>> the need to have a video on their website showing their preferred mounting 
>>> technique. And boy howdy the dude in the video doesn't seem to struggle 
>>> like I do. I've bought more than one pair near-new from somebody on a forum 
>>> who gave up trying to install them. So it ain't just me.
>>>
>>> But they are dead sexy.
>>>
>>> Paul Brodek
>>> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:

 I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to 
 have been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still 
 be obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
 (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
 advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami  

 Sam Hillborne
 Legolas
 Goodrich-built 650b prototype
 '94 RBT

>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Tom Goodmann]

+1 on praise for Paul's post--it was the best read, the best laugh, I have
enjoyed this week.  And thanks to all of you for sharing your views and
information . . . I never *tire *of reading them.  --Tom

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:31 PM Jock Dewey  wrote:

> Hey, Paul:
>
> Your posts are always* the best*, enjoy reading every one of them...and
> some of our conversations, too.
>
> Especially your tire ovations.
>
> I say this, because it is *important & necessary* that tires look good
> and make proper sounds on good pavement. It's the only music I listen to
> out on the road.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>
> On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 8:35:52 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:
>>
>> You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him
>> on ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see
>> what he may have in stock.
>>
>> Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent
>> covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to
>> DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems
>> to be getting back to a quasi-normal.
>>
>> Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another
>> high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a
>> lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are
>> generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to
>> wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush.
>> ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.
>>
>> The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open
>> tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of
>> the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless
>> tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I
>> can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount
>> of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and
>> only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will
>> I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I
>> recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just
>> beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb
>> pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent
>> mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I
>> recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next
>> time around.
>>
>> [image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
>> I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting
>> experience, in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting
>> Challenge tires is easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a
>> flat magnet!" "I ride mine thousands of miles and never get a flat." Like
>> that...) One man's death fit is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see
>> the need to have a video on their website showing their preferred mounting
>> technique. And boy howdy the dude in the video doesn't seem to struggle
>> like I do. I've bought more than one pair near-new from somebody on a forum
>> who gave up trying to install them. So it ain't just me.
>>
>> But they are dead sexy.
>>
>> Paul Brodek
>> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>>
>> On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>>
>>> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to
>>> have been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still
>>> be obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?
>>> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in
>>> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami
>>>
>>> Sam Hillborne
>>> Legolas
>>> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
>>> '94 RBT
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Jock Dewey]

Hey, Paul:

Your posts are always* the best*, enjoy reading every one of them...and 
some of our conversations, too. 

Especially your tire ovations.

I say this, because it is *important & necessary* that tires look good and 
make proper sounds on good pavement. It's the only music I listen to out on 
the road.

BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 8:35:52 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:
>
> You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him on 
> ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see what 
> he may have in stock.
>
> Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
> covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
> DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems 
> to be getting back to a quasi-normal.
>
> Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another 
> high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a 
> lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are 
> generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to 
> wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush. 
> ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.
>
> The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open 
> tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of 
> the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless 
> tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I 
> can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount 
> of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and 
> only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will 
> I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I 
> recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just 
> beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb 
> pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent 
> mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I 
> recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next 
> time around. 
>
> [image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
> I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting 
> experience, in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting 
> Challenge tires is easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a 
> flat magnet!" "I ride mine thousands of miles and never get a flat." Like 
> that...) One man's death fit is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see 
> the need to have a video on their website showing their preferred mounting 
> technique. And boy howdy the dude in the video doesn't seem to struggle 
> like I do. I've bought more than one pair near-new from somebody on a forum 
> who gave up trying to install them. So it ain't just me.
>
> But they are dead sexy.
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>
> On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>
>> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to 
>> have been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still 
>> be obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
>> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
>> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami  
>>
>> Sam Hillborne
>> Legolas
>> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
>> '94 RBT
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Brewster Fong]

I just picked up a pair of Schwalbe One V-Guard clincher tires to try on my 
Trek Madone. Interestingly, for a "racing style" bike, it has plenty of 
clearance!

At only $26 each, these seem like a decent deal:


https://www.backcountry.com/schwalbe-one-tire-clincher?s=a

Good Luck!

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 4:37:28 PM UTC-7, Nick Payne wrote:
>
> Schwalbe have the G-One Speed 700x30. I've been running these tubeless for 
> a couple of years.
>
> Nick
>

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him on 
ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see what 
he may have in stock.

Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems 
to be getting back to a quasi-normal.

Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another 
high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a 
lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are 
generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to 
wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush. 
ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.

The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open 
tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of 
the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless 
tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I 
can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount 
of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and 
only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will 
I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I 
recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just 
beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb 
pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent 
mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I 
recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next 
time around. 

[image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting experience, 
in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting Challenge tires 
is easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a flat magnet!" "I 
ride mine thousands of miles and never get a flat." Like that...) One man's 
death fit is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see the need to have a 
video on their website showing their preferred mounting technique. And boy 
howdy the dude in the video doesn't seem to struggle like I do. I've bought 
more than one pair near-new from somebody on a forum who gave up trying to 
install them. So it ain't just me.

But they are dead sexy.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to have 
> been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still be 
> obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami  
>
> Sam Hillborne
> Legolas
> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
> '94 RBT
>

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Nick Payne]

Schwalbe have the G-One Speed 700x30. I've been running these tubeless for 
a couple of years.

Nick

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 8:07:49 AM UTC-7, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to have 
> been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still be 
> obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
> advance for any recommendations.
>

For suppleness, consider Challenge Paris-Roubaix (27 
 mm) or Strada Bianca (30 
 and 36 
 mm) tires in their 
respective "Pro" versions, which are what Challenge calls their tires with 
260 tpi or higher thread count carcasses. They generally run a bit larger 
than stated, especially the P-R, that runs to about 29mm even on fairly 
narrow rims. If you get Challenge products from Europe, they're actually 
reasonably priced too (although still not inexpensive).

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Braxton Colagross]

I ordered two directly from Grand Bois in Kyoto in late February. They 
arrived in less than a week. Two tires for ~$100. Great price and very fast 
service. Why is shipping from Japan so fast and inexpensive?

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 8:07:49 AM UTC-7, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to have 
> been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still be 
> obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami  
>
> Sam Hillborne
> Legolas
> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
> '94 RBT
>

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Tom Goodmann]

Thanks, Eric; thanks, Ray. I just found an April 22nd post about Scott 
Davis, and so can get them via him or his ebay site, as well as the Compass 
tires.  I ride Barlow Pass 38s on the Legolas, and like them very much.

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to have 
> been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still be 
> obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami  
>
> Sam Hillborne
> Legolas
> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
> '94 RBT
>

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