[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Bill Lindsay]

I went out on a "Coach Bill" triathlon on the Roadeo yesterday.  

Stage 1, the Bike stage:  I went out and did an extended rendition of the 
East Bay classic road route "the Three Bears".  The Roadeo was as splendid 
as any road bike should ever be.  It climbed great, it descended as 
steadily and as fast as any Rivendell.  It's a tremendous road bike.  ~45 
miles, ~4500 feet.  It's terrific, even though I'm terribly out of condition

Stage 2, rescue:  I ran across a pair of French cyclists, caught off-guard 
by the heat, who were taking things slowly to get back to Orinda and Bart.  
They had run out of water, so I gave them all the water from my second 
bottle and a pep-talk that they were almost there.  They were very grateful 
and encouraged and urged me to ride on

Stage 3, emergency:  One of my High School Mountain Bike Racers was off to 
Tahoe, but broke a hydraulic brake hose.  I did a quick repair to allow him 
to enjoy the first day off of school and the first day of Summer Vacation.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, June 9, 2019 at 9:33:42 PM UTC-7, Mark Schneider wrote:
>
>
> Lovely bike and build, I've long regretted not getting one instead of the 
> non riv custom I ordered. 
> I'm sure you'll love it, look forward to your excellent ride reports.
>
> Mark
>
> On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 12:38:41 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> I haven't been active on the "Daily post Your Riv" thread, so this seemed 
>> kind of out of place.  I've always been a 'roadie' first and foremost.  
>> I've always had a bike in my stable that's a stripped down road bike.  The 
>> slot in my stable has always existed, but there's been a bit of flux on 
>> which bike fills that slot.  Regardless of the bike that fills my "road 
>> bike" slot, in my heart the right bike to permanently occupy that slot is 
>> the Roadeo.  For several years I've been filling that slot with placeholder 
>> bikes that I consider functionally equivalent, but I've always been 
>> confident that a 59cm Roadeo would be mine someday.
>>
>> Turns out a 59cm Roadeo cam available on I-Bob at a good price and I 
>> jumped on it.  I had been so prepared to own a Roadeo that the build came 
>> together from parts I already had in stock.  The only new part I bought to 
>> do this build was the red Newbaums.  
>>
>> Frameset: 59cm Roadeo, Chris king red no-threadset
>> Wheelset: White Industries, HED Belgium, Compass Stampede Pass EL
>> Drivetrain: Rene Herse 42/26, White Industries Ti BB, Shimano SPD pedals, 
>> Dura Ace 10sp RD, CX70 FD, Shimano Barcons, 11-28 cassette, SRAM1091 chain
>> Components: generic carbon seatpost, Avocet O2 saddle, Soba Noodle bars, 
>> Campy Xenon brakelevers ("gutted"), Shimano brakes, Cinelli Sesamo stem, 
>> King Cage Ti
>>
>> PHOTO 
>>
>> I've only had it out on one short ride on it, but this build has been 
>> ready in my head for so many years, that it was kind of like "of course 
>> it's perfect".  I'm certain I could go do a century on it tomorrow
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Mark Schneider]

Lovely bike and build, I've long regretted not getting one instead of the 
non riv custom I ordered. 
I'm sure you'll love it, look forward to your excellent ride reports.

Mark

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 12:38:41 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I haven't been active on the "Daily post Your Riv" thread, so this seemed 
> kind of out of place.  I've always been a 'roadie' first and foremost.  
> I've always had a bike in my stable that's a stripped down road bike.  The 
> slot in my stable has always existed, but there's been a bit of flux on 
> which bike fills that slot.  Regardless of the bike that fills my "road 
> bike" slot, in my heart the right bike to permanently occupy that slot is 
> the Roadeo.  For several years I've been filling that slot with placeholder 
> bikes that I consider functionally equivalent, but I've always been 
> confident that a 59cm Roadeo would be mine someday.
>
> Turns out a 59cm Roadeo cam available on I-Bob at a good price and I 
> jumped on it.  I had been so prepared to own a Roadeo that the build came 
> together from parts I already had in stock.  The only new part I bought to 
> do this build was the red Newbaums.  
>
> Frameset: 59cm Roadeo, Chris king red no-threadset
> Wheelset: White Industries, HED Belgium, Compass Stampede Pass EL
> Drivetrain: Rene Herse 42/26, White Industries Ti BB, Shimano SPD pedals, 
> Dura Ace 10sp RD, CX70 FD, Shimano Barcons, 11-28 cassette, SRAM1091 chain
> Components: generic carbon seatpost, Avocet O2 saddle, Soba Noodle bars, 
> Campy Xenon brakelevers ("gutted"), Shimano brakes, Cinelli Sesamo stem, 
> King Cage Ti
>
> PHOTO 
>
> I've only had it out on one short ride on it, but this build has been 
> ready in my head for so many years, that it was kind of like "of course 
> it's perfect".  I'm certain I could go do a century on it tomorrow
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Paul G]

Funny thing is that I've had down tube shifters on my Roadeo for a total of 
maybe one month over the nearly six years I've had it. I'm not really getting 
my money's worth on those DT shifter bosses! But at least I have the option if 
inspiration strikes again. 

I'm glad the Roadeo is still available period. It's somewhat surprising to me 
considering the Roadini...

Paul

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Brian Campbell]

I ordered the final Legolas and got mine with downtube shifter bosses, 
front and rear rack mounts (for light loads), rear canti cable stop and 
brazed on fender mounts at the bridge and chainstays. I am not sure they 
will ever get used since it is meant to be my light road bike but I like to 
have options for the future. It was delivered to the painter this week. It 
will be the same color as the Rivendell Redwood but with cream accents. 
Looking forward to it.



On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 7:05:57 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Several years ago, I gave Will and Roman a fierce but sincere 
> justification why the Roadeo should have DT shifter bosses.  The main 
> response was that the Roadeo was basically Mark's baby with respect to 
> those braze on details, and Mark is a huge fan of in-line cable adjusters.  
>
> A year or so later, Roman told me that the forthcoming Leo Roadini was 
> going to come with DT shifter bosses and that my 'vote' had been the 
> tie-breaker.  I don't know if it's true or not, but I do like to claim that 
> I'm responsible for the Leo having DT shifter bosses.  
>
> Bill "influencer-puppet-master" Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 2:30:54 PM UTC-7, Paul G wrote:
>>
>> Roadeos don't have DT shifter bosses for two reasons. Firstly, the Roadeo 
>> was designed to be as light as possible and still meet Grant's requirements 
>> for strength and durability (I guess cable stop braze ons are lighter than 
>> DT shifter bosses) and, secondly, since the bike is an alternative to 
>> Modern Carbon fiber Road Bikes, it was presumed that most buyers would use 
>> integrated brake/shifters. Or bar end shifters.
>>
>> I, like you, wasn't satisfied with that so I ordered mine with DT shifter 
>> bosses which was a $50 add on. Since Roadeos are built to order, there's 
>> opportunity to do this sort of thing. I also had a chain hanger peg added 
>> to the right chain stay (an additional $50) to keep the chain under tension 
>> when the rear wheel is removed. That comes in handy when putting the bike 
>> in the car with the wheels off.
>>
>> I bet fork eyelet braze ons for a front rack wouldn't be out of the 
>> question either. Indeed, there was a Roadeo shown on the BLUG in the past 
>> with such braze ons.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 5:02:41 AM UTC-7, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>>
>>> Beautiful machine, Bill! Nice work.
>>>
>>> Grant's designs all ride so so well, and these two, RAM & ROADEO, just 
>>> rise like cream. Why, oh why, however, doesn't that true road bike, ROADEO, 
>>> have bosses for DT shifters. A quirky Grantism I guess, they* all *seem 
>>> to have one buried in there somewhere.
>>>
>>> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[ted]

Way to go Bill, and thank you very much.
I was really glad when I saw the Roadinis were going to have dt bosses and my 
wife’s Roadini has dt shifters. I’ve got dt shifters on my drop bar AHH, and Im 
using a dt front shifter on my bulmoose bar Bombadil.
Guess I’m that 1.037 in 1,000,000 user.
The way I look at it you can always use the dt cable stop adapters to get in 
line cable adjusters for brifters or bar ends, but you can’t put dt shifters on 
cable stops. 
DT shifter bosses rule.

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Bill Lindsay]

Several years ago, I gave Will and Roman a fierce but sincere justification 
why the Roadeo should have DT shifter bosses.  The main response was that 
the Roadeo was basically Mark's baby with respect to those braze on 
details, and Mark is a huge fan of in-line cable adjusters.  

A year or so later, Roman told me that the forthcoming Leo Roadini was 
going to come with DT shifter bosses and that my 'vote' had been the 
tie-breaker.  I don't know if it's true or not, but I do like to claim that 
I'm responsible for the Leo having DT shifter bosses.  

Bill "influencer-puppet-master" Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 2:30:54 PM UTC-7, Paul G wrote:
>
> Roadeos don't have DT shifter bosses for two reasons. Firstly, the Roadeo 
> was designed to be as light as possible and still meet Grant's requirements 
> for strength and durability (I guess cable stop braze ons are lighter than 
> DT shifter bosses) and, secondly, since the bike is an alternative to 
> Modern Carbon fiber Road Bikes, it was presumed that most buyers would use 
> integrated brake/shifters. Or bar end shifters.
>
> I, like you, wasn't satisfied with that so I ordered mine with DT shifter 
> bosses which was a $50 add on. Since Roadeos are built to order, there's 
> opportunity to do this sort of thing. I also had a chain hanger peg added 
> to the right chain stay (an additional $50) to keep the chain under tension 
> when the rear wheel is removed. That comes in handy when putting the bike 
> in the car with the wheels off.
>
> I bet fork eyelet braze ons for a front rack wouldn't be out of the 
> question either. Indeed, there was a Roadeo shown on the BLUG in the past 
> with such braze ons.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 5:02:41 AM UTC-7, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>
>> Beautiful machine, Bill! Nice work.
>>
>> Grant's designs all ride so so well, and these two, RAM & ROADEO, just 
>> rise like cream. Why, oh why, however, doesn't that true road bike, ROADEO, 
>> have bosses for DT shifters. A quirky Grantism I guess, they* all *seem 
>> to have one buried in there somewhere.
>>
>> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Patrick Moore]

*Roadeos don't have DT shifter bosses for two reasons. Firstly, the Roadeo
was designed to be as light as possible and still meet Grant's requirements
for strength and durability (I guess cable stop braze ons are lighter than
DT shifter bosses) *

I expect that the reason is rather that cable stop braze ons are more
aerodynamic, right?

Kidding of course. But Grant being Grant, I doubt weight was the reason.
But I have no idea what it was, unless it was simply taking for granted
that only 1.037 owners out of 1,000,000 (approx.) use dt shifters nowadays.

But: it is good to know that they can be ordered, along with a chain
hangar. I've had these added to both my remaining Riv Road customs. (Mine
are little "L"-shaped hooks, since these bikes are fixed gears without
derailleurs: the hook slots through a link to hold the chain off the
ambient sand when removing the wheel.

Patrick Moore, wondering about a Roadeo himself, in ABQ, NM

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 3:30 PM Paul G  wrote:

> Roadeos don't have DT shifter bosses for two reasons. Firstly, the Roadeo
> was designed to be as light as possible and still meet Grant's requirements
> for strength and durability (I guess cable stop braze ons are lighter than
> DT shifter bosses) and, secondly, since the bike is an alternative to
> Modern Carbon fiber Road Bikes, it was presumed that most buyers would use
> integrated brake/shifters. Or bar end shifters.
>
> I, like you, wasn't satisfied with that so I ordered mine with DT shifter
> bosses which was a $50 add on. Since Roadeos are built to order, there's
> opportunity to do this sort of thing. I also had a chain hanger peg added
> to the right chain stay (an additional $50) to keep the chain under tension
> when the rear wheel is removed. That comes in handy when putting the bike
> in the car with the wheels off.
>
> I bet fork eyelet braze ons for a front rack wouldn't be out of the
> question either. Indeed, there was a Roadeo shown on the BLUG in the past
> with such braze ons.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 5:02:41 AM UTC-7, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>
>> Beautiful machine, Bill! Nice work.
>>
>> Grant's designs all ride so so well, and these two, RAM & ROADEO, just
>> rise like cream. Why, oh why, however, doesn't that true road bike, ROADEO,
>> have bosses for DT shifters. A quirky Grantism I guess, they* all *seem
>> to have one buried in there somewhere.
>>
>> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>
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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Paul G]

Roadeos don't have DT shifter bosses for two reasons. Firstly, the Roadeo 
was designed to be as light as possible and still meet Grant's requirements 
for strength and durability (I guess cable stop braze ons are lighter than 
DT shifter bosses) and, secondly, since the bike is an alternative to 
Modern Carbon fiber Road Bikes, it was presumed that most buyers would use 
integrated brake/shifters. Or bar end shifters.

I, like you, wasn't satisfied with that so I ordered mine with DT shifter 
bosses which was a $50 add on. Since Roadeos are built to order, there's 
opportunity to do this sort of thing. I also had a chain hanger peg added 
to the right chain stay (an additional $50) to keep the chain under tension 
when the rear wheel is removed. That comes in handy when putting the bike 
in the car with the wheels off.

I bet fork eyelet braze ons for a front rack wouldn't be out of the 
question either. Indeed, there was a Roadeo shown on the BLUG in the past 
with such braze ons.

Paul


On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 5:02:41 AM UTC-7, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Beautiful machine, Bill! Nice work.
>
> Grant's designs all ride so so well, and these two, RAM & ROADEO, just 
> rise like cream. Why, oh why, however, doesn't that true road bike, ROADEO, 
> have bosses for DT shifters. A quirky Grantism I guess, they* all *seem 
> to have one buried in there somewhere.
>
> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Bill Lindsay]

I’m also one of those people who believes that bike reviews reveal much more 
about the reviewer than the bicycle. For what it’s worth

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Patrick Moore]

I have very distinct memories of the "feel" of certain bikes owned 10 or
more years ago; heck, even close to 30 years ago. That is, certain
qualities stood out when I rode them, and I remember those qualities now.
The memories do not at all make up a complete "handling evaluation;" my
point is that things stuck out and that I remember them today.

Example: The Fuji Royale "12 Speed" (that was written on the right chain
stay) from circa 1997-8. I don't recall how it handled unladen, except that
it handled badly with an old Carradice Boxy Bag on a Nitto bar holder with
~6 lb in a gusty crosswind, but I do recall that the handling distinctly
"mellowed" or became more docile with ~29 lb in rear panniers.

The 1991 Specialized Stumpjumper team bought 1991, no suspension: I noticed
the "neutral" quality of the handling compared to the 3 other mountain
bikes I'd owned and extensively ridden; and compared to the Performance Ti
mtb that replaced it -- silly, bought it because it was "ti" and "lite".

The 1958 Rene Herse, bought ~ 2010 that fit just right with a simple
adjustment of saddle height (60 X 56.5 or so c-c): The fit was magnificent;
for some reason the bike made me want to choose a 1-tooth smaller cog. All
that was very nice, But it didn't feel as nimble or as planted (both) as my
Rivs; one reason I sold this other wise very nice bike.

1989 Falcon bought 1990: I recall the disastrous handling when I built this
bike, with long stays and very short front center, with hugely front-biased
position: Flite all the way *forward* on rails (it would slip downward on
the Logic post until blue Loctite), and 140 mm stem. I guess it would have
been very nice had Grant set it up: bar up and back, saddle back and down.

1973 Motobecane bought ~ 2006: very light frameset compared to my Rivs, and
one of the best rear load carriers I've owned; odd; Tubus Fly, though;
stable under 35 lb in rear panniers; but somehow muted in its willingness
to go forward. I'd say the tires, IRC Tandems, 28s, but the same tires on
the Herse felt fast.

Oh, and the ancient Raleigh Technium sports tourer bought ~ 2003: heavy,
flexy, muted in changing direction (but not sluggish; just mellow); but oh
so mellow-ly soft with 32 mm Vittorias.

Early '90s Diamond back Axis Team bought ~ 2002, set up with 64" fixed
gear, 60 mm Big Apples, and Noodles: another very mellow and sweetly stable
bike (those are engineering terms), and a bb high enough with 60s that I
could pedal nicely around corners.

Etc. And I don't have the patience for the detailed analysis of handling
and build characteristics that contribute to this or that handling quality.
But I certainly recall distinct "feels" of bikes.

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 5:47 PM M G  wrote:

> Could be. You 'can't relate'.  Like you, i've had lots of bikes; the
> memorable ones, i do remember quite well; whether or not that's 'refined
> sensibility' I dunno; and whether it's actual or just speculative;
> likewise, it don't matter - eventually we're all food for worms, so
> whatever works, works. Until then, as much time on the bike as possible,
> whether or not well remembered.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:35:53 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> "Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they ride
>> differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had"
>>
>> This is something to which I can't relate.  I can't do a comparison of
>> handling between a bike I'm riding today vs. a bike I rode years ago.  I
>> must not have the refined sensibilities or body memory to be capable of
>> such a thing.  It must be a common ability because a lot of people on these
>> boards seem able to do it: providing detailed and nuanced ride reports on
>> bikes they rode years or even decades previously.  I can't do that.  Maybe
>> people take notes in a bike diary?  Like wine people or whisky people?
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 3:42:30 PM UTC-7, M G wrote:
>>>
>>> Good point re overall design; i agree; bad phrasing on my part.  I was
>>> curious what difference there was, if any.
>>>
>>> I suggested a friend get a Roadini (and he did) and we both love how it
>>> rides.  Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they
>>> ride differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had;
>>> and different than my wife's Riv mixte, which is likewise an older one.
>>> Though the mixte has some of the feel of the newer bikes.
>>>
>>> The tandem we have likewise has that feeling of tracking, yet quick to
>>> turn that the Roadini has - and yeah, it's oversimplification to attribute
>>> it to that one more obvious thing.  I picked up a BMC road frame as a
>>> stop-gap when the bike i ride the most needed a frame repair (i moved the
>>> parts over from it), and while i love how the BMC rides, the Roadini kinda
>>> got me thinking that would have been a good choice.
>>>
>>>  Further up [Bill] yr description of the BMC is 

[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[M G]

Could be. You 'can't relate'.  Like you, i've had lots of bikes; the 
memorable ones, i do remember quite well; whether or not that's 'refined 
sensibility' I dunno; and whether it's actual or just speculative; 
likewise, it don't matter - eventually we're all food for worms, so 
whatever works, works. Until then, as much time on the bike as possible, 
whether or not well remembered.



On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:35:53 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> "Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they ride 
> differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had"
>
> This is something to which I can't relate.  I can't do a comparison of 
> handling between a bike I'm riding today vs. a bike I rode years ago.  I 
> must not have the refined sensibilities or body memory to be capable of 
> such a thing.  It must be a common ability because a lot of people on these 
> boards seem able to do it: providing detailed and nuanced ride reports on 
> bikes they rode years or even decades previously.  I can't do that.  Maybe 
> people take notes in a bike diary?  Like wine people or whisky people?  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 3:42:30 PM UTC-7, M G wrote:
>>
>> Good point re overall design; i agree; bad phrasing on my part.  I was 
>> curious what difference there was, if any. 
>>
>> I suggested a friend get a Roadini (and he did) and we both love how it 
>> rides.  Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they 
>> ride differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had; 
>> and different than my wife's Riv mixte, which is likewise an older one. 
>>  Though the mixte has some of the feel of the newer bikes. 
>>
>> The tandem we have likewise has that feeling of tracking, yet quick to 
>> turn that the Roadini has - and yeah, it's oversimplification to attribute 
>> it to that one more obvious thing.  I picked up a BMC road frame as a 
>> stop-gap when the bike i ride the most needed a frame repair (i moved the 
>> parts over from it), and while i love how the BMC rides, the Roadini kinda 
>> got me thinking that would have been a good choice.
>>
>>  Further up [Bill] yr description of the BMC is good; it's a quick, 
>> comfortable, well handling ride; my friends Roadini feels the same, ie 
>> quick and comfortable BUT - there is a singularity to it's handling that is 
>> obvious and great.  It feels smoother, and turning is different (and no, 
>> not 'planing')
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Bill Lindsay]

"Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they ride 
differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had"

This is something to which I can't relate.  I can't do a comparison of 
handling between a bike I'm riding today vs. a bike I rode years ago.  I 
must not have the refined sensibilities or body memory to be capable of 
such a thing.  It must be a common ability because a lot of people on these 
boards seem able to do it: providing detailed and nuanced ride reports on 
bikes they rode years or even decades previously.  I can't do that.  Maybe 
people take notes in a bike diary?  Like wine people or whisky people?  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 3:42:30 PM UTC-7, M G wrote:
>
> Good point re overall design; i agree; bad phrasing on my part.  I was 
> curious what difference there was, if any. 
>
> I suggested a friend get a Roadini (and he did) and we both love how it 
> rides.  Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they 
> ride differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had; 
> and different than my wife's Riv mixte, which is likewise an older one. 
>  Though the mixte has some of the feel of the newer bikes. 
>
> The tandem we have likewise has that feeling of tracking, yet quick to 
> turn that the Roadini has - and yeah, it's oversimplification to attribute 
> it to that one more obvious thing.  I picked up a BMC road frame as a 
> stop-gap when the bike i ride the most needed a frame repair (i moved the 
> parts over from it), and while i love how the BMC rides, the Roadini kinda 
> got me thinking that would have been a good choice.
>
>  Further up [Bill] yr description of the BMC is good; it's a quick, 
> comfortable, well handling ride; my friends Roadini feels the same, ie 
> quick and comfortable BUT - there is a singularity to it's handling that is 
> obvious and great.  It feels smoother, and turning is different (and no, 
> not 'planing')
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[M G]

Good point re overall design; i agree; bad phrasing on my part.  I was 
curious what difference there was, if any. 

I suggested a friend get a Roadini (and he did) and we both love how it 
rides.  Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they 
ride differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had; 
and different than my wife's Riv mixte, which is likewise an older one. 
 Though the mixte has some of the feel of the newer bikes. 

The tandem we have likewise has that feeling of tracking, yet quick to turn 
that the Roadini has - and yeah, it's oversimplification to attribute it to 
that one more obvious thing.  I picked up a BMC road frame as a stop-gap 
when the bike i ride the most needed a frame repair (i moved the parts over 
from it), and while i love how the BMC rides, the Roadini kinda got me 
thinking that would have been a good choice.

 Further up [Bill] yr description of the BMC is good; it's a quick, 
comfortable, well handling ride; my friends Roadini feels the same, ie 
quick and comfortable BUT - there is a singularity to it's handling that is 
obvious and great.  It feels smoother, and turning is different (and no, 
not 'planing')

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Bill Lindsay]

It is natural for people to think they can isolate out one variable and 
make some isolated statement about the effect of that variable, in 
isolation, on the behavior of that system.  In the case of bicycle frame 
design, I believe that people are wrong about that.  The handling of the 
Roadini and the Roadeo is the same, because they were designed by a bicycle 
designer named Grant Petersen to handle the same.  Grant knows better than 
anyone on this board and a lot better than me that frame design is 
complex.  It's possible to design a slow handling bike with short 
chainstays and a fast handling bike with long chainstays.  Anybody who 
tells you that they know how a bike handles from its chainstay length 
doesn't know what they are talking about.  The most anybody can say is "I 
rode Bike X with long chainstays, and it was a dog"  It would be an 
ignorant leap to then conclude "That Rivendell I've never ridden must be a 
dog because it has long chainstays".  

The Leo Roadini and the Roadeo are both excellent road bikes that handle 
the same and are equally comfortable and stable.  The Leo Roadini is more 
evolved in appearance, and the Roadeo is more traditional and classic in 
appearance.  More welds and fewer lugs make the Roadini look like it is 
more welded and less lugged.  The Roadeo has a two tone paint job, and 
might be close to a full pound lighter.  It is much much harder to get the 
bars up on the Roadeo.  The Roadeo can't take a light rear rack.  The 
Roadeo lacks downtube shifter bosses (on mine and almost all the time).  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 10:11:00 AM UTC-7, M G wrote:
>
> Yes indeed, what's the difference between it and the Roadini (longer 
> chainstays on Roadini = change in handling / how?)
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 9:05:23 AM UTC-4, Dave Grossman wrote:
>>
>> I've been waiting for you to get a Roadeo so we can get a full write up 
>> and comparison with your old (now for sale) Roadini!
>>
>> Enjoy and also FULLY APPROVE!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[M G]

Yes indeed, what's the difference between it and the Roadini (longer 
chainstays on Roadini = change in handling / how?)

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 9:05:23 AM UTC-4, Dave Grossman wrote:
>
> I've been waiting for you to get a Roadeo so we can get a full write up 
> and comparison with your old (now for sale) Roadini!
>
> Enjoy and also FULLY APPROVE!
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Dave Grossman]

I've been waiting for you to get a Roadeo so we can get a full write up and 
comparison with your old (now for sale) Roadini!

Enjoy and also FULLY APPROVE!

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Jock Dewey]

Beautiful machine, Bill! Nice work.

Grant's designs all ride so so well, and these two, RAM & ROADEO, just rise 
like cream. Why, oh why, however, doesn't that true road bike, ROADEO, have 
bosses for DT shifters. A quirky Grantism I guess, they* all *seem to have 
one buried in there somewhere.

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA



On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 3:38:41 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I haven't been active on the "Daily post Your Riv" thread, so this seemed 
> kind of out of place.  I've always been a 'roadie' first and foremost.  
> I've always had a bike in my stable that's a stripped down road bike.  The 
> slot in my stable has always existed, but there's been a bit of flux on 
> which bike fills that slot.  Regardless of the bike that fills my "road 
> bike" slot, in my heart the right bike to permanently occupy that slot is 
> the Roadeo.  For several years I've been filling that slot with placeholder 
> bikes that I consider functionally equivalent, but I've always been 
> confident that a 59cm Roadeo would be mine someday.
>
> Turns out a 59cm Roadeo cam available on I-Bob at a good price and I 
> jumped on it.  I had been so prepared to own a Roadeo that the build came 
> together from parts I already had in stock.  The only new part I bought to 
> do this build was the red Newbaums.  
>
> Frameset: 59cm Roadeo, Chris king red no-threadset
> Wheelset: White Industries, HED Belgium, Compass Stampede Pass EL
> Drivetrain: Rene Herse 42/26, White Industries Ti BB, Shimano SPD pedals, 
> Dura Ace 10sp RD, CX70 FD, Shimano Barcons, 11-28 cassette, SRAM1091 chain
> Components: generic carbon seatpost, Avocet O2 saddle, Soba Noodle bars, 
> Campy Xenon brakelevers ("gutted"), Shimano brakes, Cinelli Sesamo stem, 
> King Cage Ti
>
> PHOTO 
>
> I've only had it out on one short ride on it, but this build has been 
> ready in my head for so many years, that it was kind of like "of course 
> it's perfect".  I'm certain I could go do a century on it tomorrow
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Bill Lindsay]

Don’t be shy about weight asking. Know that lighter is faster (just a tiny bit 
faster).  Lighter is definitely more interesting.  This build weighs in at 20.9 
pounds. I just swapped road SPD pedals with another bike to get the free 
30grams off the Roadeo. 

Bill Lindsay 
El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[lambbo]

I know I shouldn't ask, so I won't...but that *looks *like a pretty light 
bike.   Fierce but elegant. 

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 3:38:41 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I haven't been active on the "Daily post Your Riv" thread, so this seemed 
> kind of out of place.  I've always been a 'roadie' first and foremost.  
> I've always had a bike in my stable that's a stripped down road bike.  The 
> slot in my stable has always existed, but there's been a bit of flux on 
> which bike fills that slot.  Regardless of the bike that fills my "road 
> bike" slot, in my heart the right bike to permanently occupy that slot is 
> the Roadeo.  For several years I've been filling that slot with placeholder 
> bikes that I consider functionally equivalent, but I've always been 
> confident that a 59cm Roadeo would be mine someday.
>
> Turns out a 59cm Roadeo cam available on I-Bob at a good price and I 
> jumped on it.  I had been so prepared to own a Roadeo that the build came 
> together from parts I already had in stock.  The only new part I bought to 
> do this build was the red Newbaums.  
>
> Frameset: 59cm Roadeo, Chris king red no-threadset
> Wheelset: White Industries, HED Belgium, Compass Stampede Pass EL
> Drivetrain: Rene Herse 42/26, White Industries Ti BB, Shimano SPD pedals, 
> Dura Ace 10sp RD, CX70 FD, Shimano Barcons, 11-28 cassette, SRAM1091 chain
> Components: generic carbon seatpost, Avocet O2 saddle, Soba Noodle bars, 
> Campy Xenon brakelevers ("gutted"), Shimano brakes, Cinelli Sesamo stem, 
> King Cage Ti
>
> PHOTO 
>
> I've only had it out on one short ride on it, but this build has been 
> ready in my head for so many years, that it was kind of like "of course 
> it's perfect".  I'm certain I could go do a century on it tomorrow
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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