[RBW] Re: rack capacities
there's statics and then there's dynamics. If you load up a sitting still rack, it will take a lot more than you would even imagine before it breaks. If the dynamics are great enough, it will break under a teacup. If you use a simple shock-loading approximation, everything weighs 10 times more than it does statically. But we don't buy them to break them - we buy them for convenience. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: rack capacities
If Nitto racks are stronger than Tubuses, the are damned strong! Tubus has a reputation for the strength (and good design) of its racks. They are the only kind Wayne at TheTouringStoredotcom sells. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:54 PM, gep71...@gmail.com wrote: Lesser racks are often rated higher, but a higher rating doesn't make them stronger, it just means the ratings are less conservative. Tubus racks are great...I have used them, I totally trust them, but they are much thinner than Nitto racks (lighter tubing), and they are not triangulated at the joints, where racks break. We know exactly where a Tubus rack is likely to break if it breaks, which is unlikely in the first place...because we have one here, off a demo bike, broken. That doesn't mean it's defective, but it did break. Last week I was thinking hey let's get some Nitto tig versions of the same racks. Nitto sez: The tubing's too thin to TIG, it would have to be much thicker. Even tho EVERY TIG'd rear rack is made with thinner-walled tubes than Nitto. I am sure all rack makers test their racks. In 2013 they'd be insane not to, but they aren't tested to the same conservative standards. About 12 years ago I asked Nitto to make a 220g drop bar, knowing there were several 220g or lighter drops out there, and naturally theirs would be the strongest. They said they couldn't make one that passed their tests, and I said what about the , , and __---they're made in Taiwan and you can beat that, right? And NITTO said (naming names privately, telling me not to go public with that) all those bars failed their tests quickly. Nitto also says---and this may scare you---that even a handlebar that's not crashed should be retired after ten years, because aluminum doesn't last like steel does. Now, this doesn't mean that your 35 year old Cinelli #66 is a better bar than Nitto, it just means Nitto is more conservative. Rack capacities (back to them) are funny things, because --- you can put 70 pounds on a rear rack, but it's held there by tiny braze-ons, and that's a lot of stress even when everything's tight. Bolts often come loose, and when a bolt is even slightly loose, the stresses go haywire. The tight bolt's eyelet is overstressed, and if the bolt works out it imposes a lot more leverage on that one dropout. Loose bolts break racks just like heavy loads do, but they leave no trace, like stabbing somebody with an icycle (sorry, making a point). Check your bolts! And...stay away from Nitto racks if you know yourself enough to know that you'll likely overload them and you never check your bolts. Sometimes somebody says how come the Nitto M12 is so much lighter than the Mini you sell? It's much thinner, and is made to be a handlebar bag support, not an actual front rack for carrying stuff. It's a good bag support, but it's not a rack-rack. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: rack capacities
I can't make any sense out of these rack weight numbers. Rack weights are not calculated in lbs. A gallon of milk weighs 8 lbs., which is a lot for a mini front rack, but I wouldn't expect the rack to break. What are you telling us? On Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:37:52 AM UTC-5, grant wrote: Mark's rack is 4.4 pounds. Nitto Mini, 13. The big rears, 44. Nitto is conservative, but try to heed these. The racks are well made of good materials, but are not unbreakable...even tho they're CrMo and Nitto and sold by us. Doo be careful, and if you put a basket on a Mark's rack and use it for milk--I mean, if you cannot be talked out of that, then lift the load off the rack with straps to the handlebars front and rear, making sure the load is lower than the bar, so that cinching the strap doesn't impose a downward force on the load and multimply the stress on the rack. Check bolt tightness. The specs come with racks now, and are on the sight. Be careful, safe, and aware. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: rack capacities
What Grant is telling us is: If you are running the Mark's Rack, try hard to keep the weight of the cargo on the mark's rack to 4.4 lbs or less. If you are running the Nitto Mini front rack, try hard to keep the weight of the cargo on the Mini Front Rack to 13 lbs or less. If you are running the Nitto Big Rear Rack, try hard to keep the weight of the cargo on the Big Rear Rack to 44 lbs or less. Gallon of milk on the Mini Front Rack is no problem, because 8lbs is less than 13lbs. Gallon of milk on the Mark's Rack is pushing it, because 8lbs is greater than 4.4lbs. My understanding of what Nitto does is that they do a very vigorous shake test with that load. If it passes the shake test for that load, then they recommend that load. That's why it's in lbs, and not in force - amplitude - frequency - cycles etc. Even though the Nitto test in actuality is in force, amplitude, frequency, cycles. An Engineer might like those numbers, but it's hard to take that into the real world. On Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:15:13 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote: I can't make any sense out of these rack weight numbers. Rack weights are not calculated in lbs. A gallon of milk weighs 8 lbs., which is a lot for a mini front rack, but I wouldn't expect the rack to break. What are you telling us? On Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:37:52 AM UTC-5, grant wrote: Mark's rack is 4.4 pounds. Nitto Mini, 13. The big rears, 44. Nitto is conservative, but try to heed these. The racks are well made of good materials, but are not unbreakable...even tho they're CrMo and Nitto and sold by us. Doo be careful, and if you put a basket on a Mark's rack and use it for milk--I mean, if you cannot be talked out of that, then lift the load off the rack with straps to the handlebars front and rear, making sure the load is lower than the bar, so that cinching the strap doesn't impose a downward force on the load and multimply the stress on the rack. Check bolt tightness. The specs come with racks now, and are on the sight. Be careful, safe, and aware. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: rack capacities
I've not owned a Nitto rack, so these numbers come as a surprise -- very low. The Tubus Fly, all 11 oz of it, and its silver brother, are rated for 18 kg/40 lb; the Logo for 40 kg/88 lb, and the Duo front for 33 lb. Hell, I've carried 35+ on a Pletscher, but it wasn't pretty. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:40 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: What Grant is telling us is: If you are running the Mark's Rack, try hard to keep the weight of the cargo on the mark's rack to 4.4 lbs or less. If you are running the Nitto Mini front rack, try hard to keep the weight of the cargo on the Mini Front Rack to 13 lbs or less. If you are running the Nitto Big Rear Rack, try hard to keep the weight of the cargo on the Big Rear Rack to 44 lbs or less. Gallon of milk on the Mini Front Rack is no problem, because 8lbs is less than 13lbs. Gallon of milk on the Mark's Rack is pushing it, because 8lbs is greater than 4.4lbs. My understanding of what Nitto does is that they do a very vigorous shake test with that load. If it passes the shake test for that load, then they recommend that load. That's why it's in lbs, and not in force - amplitude - frequency - cycles etc. Even though the Nitto test in actuality is in force, amplitude, frequency, cycles. An Engineer might like those numbers, but it's hard to take that into the real world. On Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:15:13 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote: I can't make any sense out of these rack weight numbers. Rack weights are not calculated in lbs. A gallon of milk weighs 8 lbs., which is a lot for a mini front rack, but I wouldn't expect the rack to break. What are you telling us? On Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:37:52 AM UTC-5, grant wrote: Mark's rack is 4.4 pounds. Nitto Mini, 13. The big rears, 44. Nitto is conservative, but try to heed these. The racks are well made of good materials, but are not unbreakable...even tho they're CrMo and Nitto and sold by us. Doo be careful, and if you put a basket on a Mark's rack and use it for milk--I mean, if you cannot be talked out of that, then lift the load off the rack with straps to the handlebars front and rear, making sure the load is lower than the bar, so that cinching the strap doesn't impose a downward force on the load and multimply the stress on the rack. Check bolt tightness. The specs come with racks now, and are on the sight. Be careful, safe, and aware. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: rack capacities
I'm surprised by those numbers too. I used a medium Wald zip-tied to a Mark's rack for regular loads of 10 to 15 pounds (e.g., a gallon of milk plus other stuff) and never had an issue. jim m wc ca On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:55 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: I've not owned a Nitto rack, so these numbers come as a surprise -- very low. The Tubus Fly, all 11 oz of it, and its silver brother, are rated for 18 kg/40 lb; the Logo for 40 kg/88 lb, and the Duo front for 33 lb. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: rack capacities
FWIW, I carried home 21+lb in my Sackville Medium today -- had to lash the overlflow with ropes made from extra plastic grocery bags. On a more calorie dense grocery run I managed to stuff 25 lb into it without overflow. (Again, FWIW: In order of hugeness and grocery swallering ability, this per my own, personal, certified, and confirmed experience: #1 Hoss (but not by much) #2 S Medium #3 Camper Longflap #4 Nelson Longflap.) I hear that the Sackville Huge is even bigger. But: none of these carries what can be carried easily in a pair of good grocery panniers -- have a pair of Banjo Bros Market Panniers on order. Those should outcarry even my Packer Pluses -- without the hassle of cinches, buckles, straps, flaps, extensions, and so forth. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Jim Mather mather...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised by those numbers too. I used a medium Wald zip-tied to a Mark's rack for regular loads of 10 to 15 pounds (e.g., a gallon of milk plus other stuff) and never had an issue. jim m wc ca On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:55 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.comwrote: I've not owned a Nitto rack, so these numbers come as a surprise -- very low. The Tubus Fly, all 11 oz of it, and its silver brother, are rated for 18 kg/40 lb; the Logo for 40 kg/88 lb, and the Duo front for 33 lb. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: rack capacities
...had to lash the overlflow with ropes made from extra plastic grocery bags. Okay, that's genius. I'm going to go home and make a rope of grocery bags. Philip www.biketinker.com On Thursday, February 28, 2013 4:11:47 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote: FWIW, I carried home 21+lb in my Sackville Medium today -- had to lash the overlflow with ropes made from extra plastic grocery bags. On a more calorie dense grocery run I managed to stuff 25 lb into it without overflow. (Again, FWIW: In order of hugeness and grocery swallering ability, this per my own, personal, certified, and confirmed experience: #1 Hoss (but not by much) #2 S Medium #3 Camper Longflap #4 Nelson Longflap.) I hear that the Sackville Huge is even bigger. But: none of these carries what can be carried easily in a pair of good grocery panniers -- have a pair of Banjo Bros Market Panniers on order. Those should outcarry even my Packer Pluses -- without the hassle of cinches, buckles, straps, flaps, extensions, and so forth. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Jim Mather math...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I'm surprised by those numbers too. I used a medium Wald zip-tied to a Mark's rack for regular loads of 10 to 15 pounds (e.g., a gallon of milk plus other stuff) and never had an issue. jim m wc ca On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:55 PM, PATRICK MOORE bert...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I've not owned a Nitto rack, so these numbers come as a surprise -- very low. The Tubus Fly, all 11 oz of it, and its silver brother, are rated for 18 kg/40 lb; the Logo for 40 kg/88 lb, and the Duo front for 33 lb. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: rack capacities
Remember that Grant said Nitto is conservative. I've seen $20 aluminum el-crappo racks at bike shops that are rated to 40 lbs. A rack like that may make it home from the grocery store with 40 lbs. Hook a couple of 20 lb panniers to it go touring for a few weeks. It may survive it may not. 44 lbs on a rear rack is one heckuva load beyond a few miles. I've played with loads on tour for a long time. I have no special lightweight gear and like my comfort. Something like 40 lbs is typical BUT spread around 4 bags. To my taste ( not everyone's, I realize), a couple of 12 lb panniers on the front a couple of 8 lbs on the rear works nicely. The rears are not fully stuffed so there's room for a late afternoon grocery stop. How Tubus comes up with their numbers may be a difference between Japanese standards German. I have Tubus Duo front rack a Nitto Big Back rack. Both work well. dougP On Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:59:48 PM UTC-8, Jim M. wrote: I'm surprised by those numbers too. I used a medium Wald zip-tied to a Mark's rack for regular loads of 10 to 15 pounds (e.g., a gallon of milk plus other stuff) and never had an issue. jim m wc ca On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:55 PM, PATRICK MOORE bert...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I've not owned a Nitto rack, so these numbers come as a surprise -- very low. The Tubus Fly, all 11 oz of it, and its silver brother, are rated for 18 kg/40 lb; the Logo for 40 kg/88 lb, and the Duo front for 33 lb. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: rack capacities
Conservative or not: Nitto has published allowable loads, and when people go beyond said loads, Nitto nor anyone who has sold something from Nitto, would want to incur liability because of said excessive loads. So, respect the loads. If you choose to go beyond them, don't 'flaunt' or encourage others to do the same. Like when I was running knobby NeoMotos under my fenders on my Bomba: I'm sure people were getting tired of me saying it every time, but I felt the need to emphasize: don't do it, for safety's sake. I wanted to see IF it would clear, but can't recommend to anyone to run knobbies under fenders, just in case a stick got stuck (even though I liked having fenders over knobbies, to keep the mud off). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: rack capacities
Do fender eyelets have a weight limit? I have a tubus rated at 80lbs but I can't imagine 80lbs on those tiny eyelets. - Ryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: rack capacities
Lesser racks are often rated higher, but a higher rating doesn't make them stronger, it just means the ratings are less conservative. Tubus racks are great...I have used them, I totally trust them, but they are much thinner than Nitto racks (lighter tubing), and they are not triangulated at the joints, where racks break. We know exactly where a Tubus rack is likely to break if it breaks, which is unlikely in the first place...because we have one here, off a demo bike, broken. That doesn't mean it's defective, but it did break. Last week I was thinking hey let's get some Nitto tig versions of the same racks. Nitto sez: The tubing's too thin to TIG, it would have to be much thicker. Even tho EVERY TIG'd rear rack is made with thinner-walled tubes than Nitto. I am sure all rack makers test their racks. In 2013 they'd be insane not to, but they aren't tested to the same conservative standards. About 12 years ago I asked Nitto to make a 220g drop bar, knowing there were several 220g or lighter drops out there, and naturally theirs would be the strongest. They said they couldn't make one that passed their tests, and I said what about the , , and __---they're made in Taiwan and you can beat that, right? And NITTO said (naming names privately, telling me not to go public with that) all those bars failed their tests quickly. Nitto also says---and this may scare you---that even a handlebar that's not crashed should be retired after ten years, because aluminum doesn't last like steel does. Now, this doesn't mean that your 35 year old Cinelli #66 is a better bar than Nitto, it just means Nitto is more conservative. Rack capacities (back to them) are funny things, because --- you can put 70 pounds on a rear rack, but it's held there by tiny braze-ons, and that's a lot of stress even when everything's tight. Bolts often come loose, and when a bolt is even slightly loose, the stresses go haywire. The tight bolt's eyelet is overstressed, and if the bolt works out it imposes a lot more leverage on that one dropout. Loose bolts break racks just like heavy loads do, but they leave no trace, like stabbing somebody with an icycle (sorry, making a point). Check your bolts! And...stay away from Nitto racks if you know yourself enough to know that you'll likely overload them and you never check your bolts. Sometimes somebody says how come the Nitto M12 is so much lighter than the Mini you sell? It's much thinner, and is made to be a handlebar bag support, not an actual front rack for carrying stuff. It's a good bag support, but it's not a rack-rack. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
