Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Kellie]

YAY Sean!


On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 8:08:59 AM UTC-7, Sean Kline wrote:
>
> Bill, Kellie and all: I’ve loved this thread. 
>
> (Since I live near El Cerrito Plaza Bart and work near Civic Center BART, 
> I don’t have a good biking commute these days.) 
>
> Inspired, I decided to bike 2.5 hours from Daly City (BART) to Half Moon 
> Bay Thursday after work for a business meeting Friday morning. It was a 
> busy workweek, so I didn’t get organized to map the ride carefully—just 
> typed ‘to’ and ‘from’ into Google Maps and took off on my Sam. 
>
> I’ve had some truly bad routes using Google alone, but this time I was 
> gifted an amazingly beautiful ride through quiet neighborhoods of Daly City 
> before a climb up into the mountains in Pacifica over and down the other 
> side on a dirt trail and eventual quiet back streets to Half Moon Bay. 
> Though I love the view of the Pacific from Highway 1, it can be a hairy 
> ride, especially at rush hour and on weekends. On the ride yesterday, I 
> didn’t ride Highway 1 once. 
>
> Sean 
>
> (Sent from phone) 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

That’s amazing Sean!  Here’s to taking the long way!  Fantastic!

BL in EC

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Kellie Stapleton]

Bill, glad u liked it!

> On May 31, 2018, at 12:06 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> I followed Kellie's lowland East Bay Route today.  There's a fair bit of 
> stopping and meandering, and the crosswinds off the bay were quite strong 
> today, but it was a very cool alternative to my normal hill route.  There's a 
> good stretch of gravel road where your are right next to the water of the bay 
> and a good mile removed from the nearest hosing development.  The mile gap is 
> filled with restored wetlands.  It's cool to be inside the San Francisco Bay 
> Metropolis, and yet be that isolated.  
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> 
> On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 6:56:21 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>> 
>> Justin, here's the link: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27535193 
>> Fruitvale BART to Coyote Springs. Both Union City and Fremont BART not far 
>> from Coyote Springs. Coyote Springs is fun in and of itself. Crandall Creek 
>> trail is the termination at Coyote Springs but if you go the other way, 
>> Alameda Creek trail, it goes all the way to Mission Blvd. Also, the bike 
>> path over the Dumbarton Bridge interfaces at Coyote Springs. Cut across to 
>> the South Bay via the Dumbarton Bridge. the choices are endless.
>> Yes Bill, much is SF Bay Trail.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

I followed Kellie's lowland East Bay Route today.  There's a fair bit of 
stopping and meandering, and the crosswinds off the bay were quite strong 
today, but it was a very cool alternative to my normal hill route.  There's 
a good stretch of gravel road where your are right next to the water of the 
bay and a good mile removed from the nearest hosing development.  The mile 
gap is filled with restored wetlands.  It's cool to be inside the San 
Francisco Bay Metropolis, and yet be that isolated.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 6:56:21 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> Justin, here's the link: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27535193 
> Fruitvale BART to Coyote Springs. Both Union City and Fremont BART not far 
> from Coyote Springs. Coyote Springs is fun in and of itself. Crandall Creek 
> trail is the termination at Coyote Springs but if you go the other way, 
> Alameda Creek trail, it goes all the way to Mission Blvd. Also, the bike 
> path over the Dumbarton Bridge interfaces at Coyote Springs. Cut across to 
> the South Bay via the Dumbarton Bridge. the choices are endless.
> Yes Bill, much is SF Bay Trail.
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Kellie]

The Eastbay Skyline Trail is 
here: 
http://gurmeet.net/hiking/hikes/East_Bay_Skyline_National_Recreation_Trail.html
Gives a lot of info about the trail divided into 4 sections from Wildcat 
Canyon Park in Richmond to Cabot Lake. All DIRT. I haven't ridden all of 
it, but if someone does please give a report. Gives trailheads and places 
to park, water, photos, etc.

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty 
> much strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened 
> up my world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying 
> taking the long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an 
> idea for my 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than 
> treat it as a hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I 
> contemplated doing it as a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road 
> connectors.  I had most of the route in my head, but there were still 
> several trails that I needed to add but had never ridden.  Now that I have 
> a cool GPS unit, I was able to build my route on RideWithGPS and upload it 
> to my device so I wouldn't get lost and wouldn't have to resort to the map 
> 50 times.  
>
> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme 
> Commuting 
>
> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking 
> hard.  There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  
> There were rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel 
> like serious underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain 
> bike trails are by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might 
> decide to do the SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in 
> May, and this Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
>
>
> 
>
> This was one of the 20% grades, which is hard to see in the photo.  My 
> four finger salute was to celebrate passing 4,000 ft of climbing at this 
> point.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> So, make a plan, set a goal, see it through and celebrate
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
>
> P.S. One of the reasons I was able to pedal up 20% grades was I just 
> installed my turkey vulture shifter kit from Analog Cycles, which allowed 
> me to run a Deore XT clutch rear derailer with Shimano 10sp indexed barcons 
> (on Thumbies).  I was glad to have a 26x36 low gear.  
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Matt Beecher]

This has been a fun and interesting read.  When I first started riding in 
my adulthood, I was living in Georgia and commuting to/from the EPA in 
Athens, GA.  I think I went from a 20 minute driving commute to a 30 minute 
riding commute, since I could simply start riding through the quad at UGA.  
I was fortunate then that I had access to showers at work.  I loved and 
miss that job, but gave it up for my wife, who I love far more.  

I am going to be changing positions with my current employer next month, 
going from 80% travel to about 5%-10%.  With that in mind, I am thinking 
about trying for the long commute myself.  Fortunately, 90% of the route is 
on a bike path; the Fox River Trail for those that are interested.  There 
is only one stretch of an uphill ride that scares me in the morning and I 
hope my dual lights keep me safe.  

When I first started working for my employer, I sometimes rode home on 
Friday nights and back on Saturday mornings to get my car.  It is a 34 mile 
one-way ride, so I am planning to drive in Monday and ride home that night, 
then ride back in on Tuesday and drive home Tuesday night, etc.  I've 
already got dynamo and battery lights, panniers, and a couple options for 
fendered commuter bikes (Atlantis, Saluki, '85 Trek 720, and a Boulder 
somethin-or-another).  

I'll have my own office and a decent sized desk, so I will plan to bring 
clothes on Mondays, but I am nervous about how I will smell.  As someone 
born with anosmia, or at least not having a memory of the sense, I am very 
paranoid that I will not sufficiently remove the stink when wiping myself 
down in a bathroom.  Given my friends and family aren't into cycling, I 
have nobody close to ask, but would you expect to stink if you took an old 
facecloth to use to wipe yourself down about 15 minutes after you get in?  
I've heard of using baby wipes as well, but do those work better?  

I'll probably start with riding home on Fridays for a few weeks, then work 
myself up to one to/from commute for a month, then try adding more 
commuting time.  

Matt in Oswego, IL

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Surlyprof]

Kellie,

It’s Piedmont.  From campus I can take 11th up to Taylor and turn right toward 
the hills.  It eventually becomes Mabury.  A left on White later becomes 
Piedmont.  That’s out near Alum Rock Park.  It’ll take you as far as Jacklin 
which you can turn off and keep riding along the east sound wall of 680.  It 
comes to an end at Scott Creek which, unfortunately, you have to take down into 
Fremont traffic (Warm Springs Rd).

I did attempt the hill route I thought I’d figured out the other day.  
Continuing past Scott Creek Road I thought could go up the hills through 
neighborhoods with one potential backyard crossing.  There were hills but I 
never got to them.  I was foiled by a gated community.  I guess no one can go 
in but residents and guests.  Defeated, I had to go back down Scott Creek Rd 
where there are now concrete barriwrs in the bike lane due to construction.  
More nerve racking than usual.  So much for the scenic route.

John 
Still determined to find a scenic route from San Jose to Niles Canyon.

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Kellie]

Hey John: where's "the road that skirts along the base of the hills that 
surrounds the East Bay from San Jose up?"

On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 11:24:34 AM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> Bill's post on extreme commuting prompted me to take the path less 
> ventured home last week.  If I ride home instead of taking the train, I 
> usually ride out of San Jose through not the most picturesque neighborhoods 
> but eventually, it connects to the road that skirts along the base of the 
> hills that surrounds the East Bay from San Jose up.  This is a beautiful 
> route along horse ranches and meadows but I've always wondered what it 
> would be like to ride the bike path up to Alviso and the bay and then cut 
> over to the Fremont area.  I would love to report that it was a delightful 
> experience full of nicely cared for trails, beautiful vistas and gorgeous 
> views of the bay but... I cannot.  My extreme commuting turned into 
> "extremely awful commuting".  Riding from San Jose north on the Guadalupe 
> River Trail you get to see firsthand the massive number of homeless people 
> who have been priced out of the bay area.  Campsites and abandoned shopping 
> carts everywhere.  People were washing their clothes in the river!  It gave 
> the bay area a real third world feel.  The trail came out of the woods and 
> along the San Jose airport and then on to the back sides of a large number 
> of generically repetitive buildings housing various tech companies.  
> Nothing to see there.  It also opened up to full exposure to the winds 
> coming down off the bay.  This was the start of 14-15 miles of steady 
> headwinds. The ride also featured trails that ran alongside the 237 freeway 
> (more shopping carts) and miles of bike lane-ish stretches along 5 lanes of 
> Fremont Road heading into Fremont.  With few stop lights in that area, cars 
> were whizzing by at 60-70 mph.  
>
> Eventually, I made it home to a delightful greeting by our joyful dogs.  
> I'm happy to report that my trusty Hillborne hauled me and my office the 
> entire 19-20 miles without a hitch or a flat (lots of glass on this 
> route).  I now know what the path less taken is like and won't be rushing 
> back.  And, I got to see this totally tubular Hunquapillar in the wild:  
> https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipPSbtDW_64rz3xB6kxN2yJgZnHHdAOYHvt13hyi
>
> Valuable lessons learned and a great workout was had.  Check!
>
> John
>
> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>
>> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty 
>> much strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened 
>> up my world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying 
>> taking the long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an 
>> idea for my 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than 
>> treat it as a hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I 
>> contemplated doing it as a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road 
>> connectors.  I had most of the route in my head, but there were still 
>> several trails that I needed to add but had never ridden.  Now that I have 
>> a cool GPS unit, I was able to build my route on RideWithGPS and upload it 
>> to my device so I wouldn't get lost and wouldn't have to resort to the map 
>> 50 times.  
>>
>> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
>> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme 
>> Commuting 
>>
>> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
>> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
>> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking 
>> hard.  There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  
>> There were rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel 
>> like serious underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain 
>> bike trails are by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might 
>> decide to do the SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in 
>> May, and this Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> This was one of the 20% grades, which is hard to see in the photo.  My 
>> four finger salute was to celebrate passing 4,000 ft of climbing at this 
>> point.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, make a plan, set a goal, see it through and celebrate
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito CA
>>
>> P.S. One of the reasons I was able to pedal up 20% grades was I just 
>> installed my turkey vulture shifter kit from Analog Cycles, which allowed 
>> me to 

Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Kellie Stapleton]

Hi John: I thought of you when I heard about your experience down the 
Guadalupe. I used to ride that a lot when I lived on the peninsula. I feel sad 
to hear about the area for a lot of reasons. Let me know how you like it.

> On May 18, 2018, at 9:02 PM, Surlyprof  wrote:
> 
> This is fantastic!  Thanks, Kellie.  I live in Niles and have been looking 
> for a good route up the bay.  This looks perfect.
> 
> John
> 
> On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 6:56:21 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
> Justin, here's the link: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27535193 
>  
> Fruitvale BART to Coyote Springs. Both Union City and Fremont BART not far 
> from Coyote Springs. Coyote Springs is fun in and of itself. Crandall Creek 
> trail is the termination at Coyote Springs but if you go the other way, 
> Alameda Creek trail, it goes all the way to Mission Blvd. Also, the bike path 
> over the Dumbarton Bridge interfaces at Coyote Springs. Cut across to the 
> South Bay via the Dumbarton Bridge. the choices are endless.
> Yes Bill, much is SF Bay Trail.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
> 
> 
> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty much 
> strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened up my 
> world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying taking the 
> long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an idea for my 
> 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than treat it as a 
> hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I contemplated doing it as 
> a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road connectors.  I had most of the 
> route in my head, but there were still several trails that I needed to add 
> but had never ridden.  Now that I have a cool GPS unit, I was able to build 
> my route on RideWithGPS and upload it to my device so I wouldn't get lost and 
> wouldn't have to resort to the map 50 times.  
> 
> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme Commuting 
> 
> 
> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking hard.  
> There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  There were 
> rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel like serious 
> underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain bike trails are 
> by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might decide to do the 
> SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in May, and this 
> Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
> 
>  
> 
> This was one of the 20% grades, which is hard to see in the photo.  My four 
> finger salute was to celebrate passing 4,000 ft of climbing at this point.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, make a plan, set a goal, see it through and celebrate
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
> 
> P.S. One of the reasons I was able to pedal up 20% grades was I just 
> installed my turkey vulture shifter kit from Analog Cycles, which allowed me 
> to run a Deore XT clutch rear derailer with Shimano 10sp indexed barcons (on 
> Thumbies).  I was glad to have a 26x36 low gear.  
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Surlyprof]

This is fantastic!  Thanks, Kellie.  I live in Niles and have been looking 
for a good route up the bay.  This looks perfect.

John

On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 6:56:21 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> Justin, here's the link: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27535193 
> Fruitvale BART to Coyote Springs. Both Union City and Fremont BART not far 
> from Coyote Springs. Coyote Springs is fun in and of itself. Crandall Creek 
> trail is the termination at Coyote Springs but if you go the other way, 
> Alameda Creek trail, it goes all the way to Mission Blvd. Also, the bike 
> path over the Dumbarton Bridge interfaces at Coyote Springs. Cut across to 
> the South Bay via the Dumbarton Bridge. the choices are endless.
> Yes Bill, much is SF Bay Trail.
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>
>> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty 
>> much strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened 
>> up my world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying 
>> taking the long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an 
>> idea for my 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than 
>> treat it as a hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I 
>> contemplated doing it as a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road 
>> connectors.  I had most of the route in my head, but there were still 
>> several trails that I needed to add but had never ridden.  Now that I have 
>> a cool GPS unit, I was able to build my route on RideWithGPS and upload it 
>> to my device so I wouldn't get lost and wouldn't have to resort to the map 
>> 50 times.  
>>
>> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
>> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme 
>> Commuting 
>>
>> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
>> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
>> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking 
>> hard.  There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  
>> There were rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel 
>> like serious underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain 
>> bike trails are by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might 
>> decide to do the SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in 
>> May, and this Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> This was one of the 20% grades, which is hard to see in the photo.  My 
>> four finger salute was to celebrate passing 4,000 ft of climbing at this 
>> point.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, make a plan, set a goal, see it through and celebrate
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito CA
>>
>> P.S. One of the reasons I was able to pedal up 20% grades was I just 
>> installed my turkey vulture shifter kit from Analog Cycles, which allowed 
>> me to run a Deore XT clutch rear derailer with Shimano 10sp indexed barcons 
>> (on Thumbies).  I was glad to have a 26x36 low gear.  
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

Thanks for the route, Kellie

I'll report back when I follow it.  :-)

BL in EC

On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 6:56:21 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> Justin, here's the link: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27535193 
> Fruitvale BART to Coyote Springs. Both Union City and Fremont BART not far 
> from Coyote Springs. Coyote Springs is fun in and of itself. Crandall Creek 
> trail is the termination at Coyote Springs but if you go the other way, 
> Alameda Creek trail, it goes all the way to Mission Blvd. Also, the bike 
> path over the Dumbarton Bridge interfaces at Coyote Springs. Cut across to 
> the South Bay via the Dumbarton Bridge. the choices are endless.
> Yes Bill, much is SF Bay Trail.
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Kellie]

Justin, here's the link: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27535193 
Fruitvale BART to Coyote Springs. Both Union City and Fremont BART not far 
from Coyote Springs. Coyote Springs is fun in and of itself. Crandall Creek 
trail is the termination at Coyote Springs but if you go the other way, 
Alameda Creek trail, it goes all the way to Mission Blvd. Also, the bike 
path over the Dumbarton Bridge interfaces at Coyote Springs. Cut across to 
the South Bay via the Dumbarton Bridge. the choices are endless.
Yes Bill, much is SF Bay Trail.


On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty 
> much strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened 
> up my world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying 
> taking the long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an 
> idea for my 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than 
> treat it as a hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I 
> contemplated doing it as a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road 
> connectors.  I had most of the route in my head, but there were still 
> several trails that I needed to add but had never ridden.  Now that I have 
> a cool GPS unit, I was able to build my route on RideWithGPS and upload it 
> to my device so I wouldn't get lost and wouldn't have to resort to the map 
> 50 times.  
>
> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme 
> Commuting 
>
> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking 
> hard.  There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  
> There were rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel 
> like serious underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain 
> bike trails are by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might 
> decide to do the SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in 
> May, and this Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
>
>
> 
>
> This was one of the 20% grades, which is hard to see in the photo.  My 
> four finger salute was to celebrate passing 4,000 ft of climbing at this 
> point.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> So, make a plan, set a goal, see it through and celebrate
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
>
> P.S. One of the reasons I was able to pedal up 20% grades was I just 
> installed my turkey vulture shifter kit from Analog Cycles, which allowed 
> me to run a Deore XT clutch rear derailer with Shimano 10sp indexed barcons 
> (on Thumbies).  I was glad to have a 26x36 low gear.  
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Kellie Stapleton]

Will post after the meeting I’m in…

> On May 17, 2018, at 9:44 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> I think that's essentially the Bay Trail.  I really like climbing, but I have 
> done the Bay Trail route a few times.  Not in the last 5 years, though
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 9:12:20 AM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>> Kellie- 
>> What’s the route? Inquiring minds in a East Oakland want to know! Do you 
>> have a GPS or google map? 
>> 
>> -J
> 
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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

I think that's essentially the Bay Trail.  I really like climbing, but I 
have done the Bay Trail route a few times.  Not in the last 5 years, though

Bill

On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 9:12:20 AM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> Kellie- 
> What’s the route? Inquiring minds in a East Oakland want to know! Do you 
> have a GPS or google map? 
>
> -J

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Justin, Oakland]

Kellie-
What’s the route? Inquiring minds in a East Oakland want to know! Do you have a 
GPS or google map?

-J

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Kellie]

Bill: from your start ride to Union City Blvd. and cut in at Eden shores. 
>From there a NO CAR route, some of it gravel, all the way to High St. in 
Oakland. Depending on how many miles you want there's bailout Bart stations 
all the way to Richmond. The trail I'm suggesting skirts the Bay with 
beautiful wetlands to ride through. That'll be about 25 miles (maybe more) 
one way to Fruitvale Station.

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty 
> much strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened 
> up my world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying 
> taking the long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an 
> idea for my 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than 
> treat it as a hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I 
> contemplated doing it as a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road 
> connectors.  I had most of the route in my head, but there were still 
> several trails that I needed to add but had never ridden.  Now that I have 
> a cool GPS unit, I was able to build my route on RideWithGPS and upload it 
> to my device so I wouldn't get lost and wouldn't have to resort to the map 
> 50 times.  
>
> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme 
> Commuting 
>
> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking 
> hard.  There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  
> There were rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel 
> like serious underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain 
> bike trails are by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might 
> decide to do the SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in 
> May, and this Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
>
>
> 
>
> This was one of the 20% grades, which is hard to see in the photo.  My 
> four finger salute was to celebrate passing 4,000 ft of climbing at this 
> point.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> So, make a plan, set a goal, see it through and celebrate
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
>
> P.S. One of the reasons I was able to pedal up 20% grades was I just 
> installed my turkey vulture shifter kit from Analog Cycles, which allowed 
> me to run a Deore XT clutch rear derailer with Shimano 10sp indexed barcons 
> (on Thumbies).  I was glad to have a 26x36 low gear.  
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

It would be great to see you out there next racing season, J-Smooth.  Maybe 
we can get Manny to show up as well representing Albany High.  

The final race of the year: California State Championships, is this weekend 
in Petaluma.  Our most likely podium contenders from ECHS are Matt Garrison 
(Varsity Boys) and Madeleine Hill (JV Girls).  

Coach Bill
ECHS Gauchos

On Tuesday, May 15, 2018 at 4:43:25 PM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> Bill- 
> That’s a great idea. I will look into it for sure! 
>
> Sadly she’s only 4.5 months - with great head control - so I’ve got at 
> least another 4.5 months to go. I’m off all next school year tho with 
> nearest return to work date being sept 2019. Plenty of time to bike with 
> her! 
>
> -J

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Justin, Oakland]

Bill-
That’s a great idea. I will look into it for sure!

Sadly she’s only 4.5 months - with great head control - so I’ve got at least 
another 4.5 months to go. I’m off all next school year tho with nearest return 
to work date being sept 2019. Plenty of time to bike with her!

-J

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Jonathan D.]

I would add for Justin, get a child bike seat or a trailer. Start biking with 
your kid to all their activities, friend visits or to new parks. It is a fun 
way to explore and spend time together. 

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

Justin asked:  "How do I do a commute like this to my current job as a stay 
at home dad? "

I doubt he meant it sincerely, but every smart aleck joke question has a 
kernel of truth or sincerity in it.  So I'll answer as if Justin was 
sincerely asking.

I think you should volunteer for Oakland Composite Mountain Bike Racing.  
They have an incredible group of kids riding for them, and they do really 
great work, particularly servicing minority riders, girls, and economically 
challenged high schoolers in Oakland.  It's one of the best ways I know of 
to get Oakland teens outdoors and enjoying the spectacular public spaces 
available in the hills above Oakland.  Ride with them once or twice a week, 
and they will beat your ass into shape faster than you can say "un-Racer".  
Working withe El Cerrito High School has been a true fountain-of-youth 
experience for me both physically and emotionally.  Short, intense, 
sometimes unpleasantly difficult mountain bike rides are one of the more 
efficient ways to get a TON of fitness out of VERY limited exercise time.  
Committing to a team like that is a way to force discipline on yourself 
that normally might take joining a gym, or some other lame self-imposed and 
costly arrangement.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, May 15, 2018 at 7:07:29 AM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> I spend a considerable amount of time hiking these trails and ride them in 
> small parts as well. This is, as most everything you do is, most 
> impressive. Almost as impressive as Deacon P turning every thread into one 
> about nutrition. ;)
>
> How do I do a commute like this to my current job as a stay at home dad? 
>
> -J
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Justin, Oakland]

I spend a considerable amount of time hiking these trails and ride them in 
small parts as well. This is, as most everything you do is, most impressive. 
Almost as impressive as Deacon P turning every thread into one about nutrition. 
;)

How do I do a commute like this to my current job as a stay at home dad? 

-J

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

APPROVE

On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 4:25:27 PM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> Not to worry, Bill.  I’m just not rushing back to THAT path.  I refuse to 
> be that easily discouraged as I’m trying a new direction tonight.  It will 
> involve horse farms, it will involve hills and it may involve a backyard 
> crossing.  I’ll have to channel the spirit of Manny on that one (especially 
> if there is a fence). 
>
> Thanks for the inspiration. 
>
> John

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Surlyprof]

Not to worry, Bill.  I’m just not rushing back to THAT path.  I refuse to be 
that easily discouraged as I’m trying a new direction tonight.  It will involve 
horse farms, it will involve hills and it may involve a backyard crossing.  
I’ll have to channel the spirit of Manny on that one (especially if there is a 
fence). 

Thanks for the inspiration.

John

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

A. I'm touched that my post inspired somebody to try something new
B. I'm bummed that the something new that somebody tried was unpleasant
C. I flatly reject that trying one new thing and not liking it justifies 
never trying any new thing.  Maybe that's not what John meant when he said 
(and I quote):

" I now know what the path less taken is like and won't be rushing back"

The path less taken is not one thing.  If you find a lame route, don't take 
it again.  If you find a great route, take it again.  It breaks my heart to 
think this one adventure has you giving up adventure entirely.  Again, I 
hope that's not what you meant

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 11:24:34 AM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> Bill's post on extreme commuting prompted me to take the path less 
> ventured home last week.  If I ride home instead of taking the train, I 
> usually ride out of San Jose through not the most picturesque neighborhoods 
> but eventually, it connects to the road that skirts along the base of the 
> hills that surrounds the East Bay from San Jose up.  This is a beautiful 
> route along horse ranches and meadows but I've always wondered what it 
> would be like to ride the bike path up to Alviso and the bay and then cut 
> over to the Fremont area.  I would love to report that it was a delightful 
> experience full of nicely cared for trails, beautiful vistas and gorgeous 
> views of the bay but... I cannot.  My extreme commuting turned into 
> "extremely awful commuting".  Riding from San Jose north on the Guadalupe 
> River Trail you get to see firsthand the massive number of homeless people 
> who have been priced out of the bay area.  Campsites and abandoned shopping 
> carts everywhere.  People were washing their clothes in the river!  It gave 
> the bay area a real third world feel.  The trail came out of the woods and 
> along the San Jose airport and then on to the back sides of a large number 
> of generically repetitive buildings housing various tech companies.  
> Nothing to see there.  It also opened up to full exposure to the winds 
> coming down off the bay.  This was the start of 14-15 miles of steady 
> headwinds. The ride also featured trails that ran alongside the 237 freeway 
> (more shopping carts) and miles of bike lane-ish stretches along 5 lanes of 
> Fremont Road heading into Fremont.  With few stop lights in that area, cars 
> were whizzing by at 60-70 mph.  
>
> Eventually, I made it home to a delightful greeting by our joyful dogs.  
> I'm happy to report that my trusty Hillborne hauled me and my office the 
> entire 19-20 miles without a hitch or a flat (lots of glass on this 
> route).  I now know what the path less taken is like and won't be rushing 
> back.  And, I got to see this totally tubular Hunquapillar in the wild:  
> https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipPSbtDW_64rz3xB6kxN2yJgZnHHdAOYHvt13hyi
>
> Valuable lessons learned and a great workout was had.  Check!
>
> John
>
> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>
>> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty 
>> much strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened 
>> up my world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying 
>> taking the long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an 
>> idea for my 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than 
>> treat it as a hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I 
>> contemplated doing it as a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road 
>> connectors.  I had most of the route in my head, but there were still 
>> several trails that I needed to add but had never ridden.  Now that I have 
>> a cool GPS unit, I was able to build my route on RideWithGPS and upload it 
>> to my device so I wouldn't get lost and wouldn't have to resort to the map 
>> 50 times.  
>>
>> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
>> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme 
>> Commuting 
>>
>> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
>> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
>> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking 
>> hard.  There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  
>> There were rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel 
>> like serious underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain 
>> bike trails are by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might 
>> decide to do the SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in 
>> May, and this Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> This was one of the 20

[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Surlyprof]

Bill's post on extreme commuting prompted me to take the path less ventured 
home last week.  If I ride home instead of taking the train, I usually ride 
out of San Jose through not the most picturesque neighborhoods but 
eventually, it connects to the road that skirts along the base of the hills 
that surrounds the East Bay from San Jose up.  This is a beautiful route 
along horse ranches and meadows but I've always wondered what it would be 
like to ride the bike path up to Alviso and the bay and then cut over to 
the Fremont area.  I would love to report that it was a delightful 
experience full of nicely cared for trails, beautiful vistas and gorgeous 
views of the bay but... I cannot.  My extreme commuting turned into 
"extremely awful commuting".  Riding from San Jose north on the Guadalupe 
River Trail you get to see firsthand the massive number of homeless people 
who have been priced out of the bay area.  Campsites and abandoned shopping 
carts everywhere.  People were washing their clothes in the river!  It gave 
the bay area a real third world feel.  The trail came out of the woods and 
along the San Jose airport and then on to the back sides of a large number 
of generically repetitive buildings housing various tech companies.  
Nothing to see there.  It also opened up to full exposure to the winds 
coming down off the bay.  This was the start of 14-15 miles of steady 
headwinds. The ride also featured trails that ran alongside the 237 freeway 
(more shopping carts) and miles of bike lane-ish stretches along 5 lanes of 
Fremont Road heading into Fremont.  With few stop lights in that area, cars 
were whizzing by at 60-70 mph.  

Eventually, I made it home to a delightful greeting by our joyful dogs.  
I'm happy to report that my trusty Hillborne hauled me and my office the 
entire 19-20 miles without a hitch or a flat (lots of glass on this 
route).  I now know what the path less taken is like and won't be rushing 
back.  And, I got to see this totally tubular Hunquapillar in the 
wild:  
https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipPSbtDW_64rz3xB6kxN2yJgZnHHdAOYHvt13hyi

Valuable lessons learned and a great workout was had.  Check!

John

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty 
> much strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened 
> up my world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying 
> taking the long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an 
> idea for my 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than 
> treat it as a hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I 
> contemplated doing it as a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road 
> connectors.  I had most of the route in my head, but there were still 
> several trails that I needed to add but had never ridden.  Now that I have 
> a cool GPS unit, I was able to build my route on RideWithGPS and upload it 
> to my device so I wouldn't get lost and wouldn't have to resort to the map 
> 50 times.  
>
> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme 
> Commuting 
>
> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking 
> hard.  There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  
> There were rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel 
> like serious underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain 
> bike trails are by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might 
> decide to do the SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in 
> May, and this Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
>
>
> 
>
> This was one of the 20% grades, which is hard to see in the photo.  My 
> four finger salute was to celebrate passing 4,000 ft of climbing at this 
> point.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> So, make a plan, set a goal, see it through and celebrate
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
>
> P.S. One of the reasons I was able to pedal up 20% grades was I just 
> installed my turkey vulture shifter kit from Analog Cycles, which allowed 
> me to run a Deore XT clutch rear derailer with Shimano 10sp indexed barcons 
> (on Thumbies).  I was glad to have a 26x36 low gear.  
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Evan E.]

Hey Deacon:  I agree. Even though I do eat coconut oil at breakfast, often 
eat almond butter at lunch, and eat olive oil at dinner, I'm still likely 
not getting enough fat calories. Also, I'm probably not getting 2,000 
calories each day. Cannot imagine eating just two meals a day. But hey, 
I'll keep working on it. Thanks again.

Evan






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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Deacon Patrick]

Evan,

You may not be getting enough fat colaories. I put butter on my burger (or 
whatever meat I’m having). We buy ground beef with 25% fat, and it gets made 
into a sauce or simply put with the meat. Essentially, 80-90% of my calories 
come from fat. I eat 1-2 meals a day. “Breakfast” is coffee with cream. Lunch 
is my main meal, unless I skip it, then dinner is (and generally bigger). 
Dinner is usually 3 eggs of some sort (amazing nutrition in them thar yokes!). 
To be Ketogenic the rule of thumb is 25 grams of carbs or less per day. To be 
healthy low carb, the rule is 200-400 grams per day (I think, reference the 
Perfect Health Diet for details on that as I don’t eat that way, but my wife 
and daughters do — they didn’t do well on ketogenic).

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Evan E.]

Deacon Patrick:  Thanks for your paragraph! It helps a lot. I suspect that 
I may be in the middle of low-carb diets. While on most days I eat almost 
zero carbs, each Saturday I eat a restaurant basket of tortilla chips and 
about once a week I'll eat white rice with dinner. So maybe those carbs put 
me in no man's land? Also, I'm guessing I don't eat enough, period, because 
my weekday lunches are small. Also, I'm skinny, so I'm thinking I have 
almost no fat reserves.

Tom: Thanks for the info. I agree that I may be close to being fat-adapted, 
but I'm not sure I'm good at listening to my body. So I'll work on that!

Evan



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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Palmer]

Hi Evan,
Not to step on Deacon Patrick’s toes, but if you keeps carbohydrates under 100 
grams per day you should have effortless weight maintenance. Closer to 50gr is 
getting close to ketosis but will accelerate fat loss. I agree you are close to 
being fat adapted if not there already. We are all a little different, the nice 
thing is you should be able to listen to your body because you don’t have the 
noise of of glucose and insulin regularly. 
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Deacon Patrick]

Hey Evan! Based on what you wrote, you don’t need a paragraph from me. You got 
it. Discipline may be the issue? In a given day how much sugar, flour, and 
other carbs are you getting? You know you’re reaching a point of your body 
being effecient at burning fat (which can take a while to heal back to after a 
high carb diet, I noticed several shifts at roughly 3mo, 9mo, 18mo) when you 
discover you’ve gone 24+ hours without eating anything and in that same time 
biked for 4+ hours and never bonked. Fat burning isn’t an all or nothing 
prospect though. There are basically three levels of “low carb” diets, the high 
and low end being the ones to be in. Ketogenic essentially eliminates all carbs 
(except leafy greens), and the liver converts protein to the small amount of 
glucose the body requires. The body converts fat into ketones for fuel, 
including for the brain, which functions better on ketones for a variety of 
reasons, which is why a ketogenic diet is great for anyone with neurological 
issues. The upper end of low carb involves eating 2-4 fistfulls of healthy 
carbs (potatoes, yams, white rice, etc.), not entering ketogenic, but providing 
for the body’s basic glucose needs directly through diet. Between those two is 
no man’s land ... too many carbs to trigger ketogenic systems, too few to 
provide for the body’s needs, so a lot of effort to feel horrible. Grin.

Hopefully that helps a wee bit?

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Evan E.]

Hi Deacon Patrick,

"Become a fat burner and see what happens." < Could you please explain, in 
one paragraph, how to become a fat burner? I ask because a few year ago I 
read "Eat Bacon Don't Jog," and I liked it, and I followed its diet regimen 
for at least five months straight, and still today I eat a low-carb diet 
with eggs for breakfast, and plenty of coconut butter and coconut oil and 
grass-fed butter and sardines and kale and chicken and walnuts, etc. But 
I'm still pretty sure I couldn't wake up in the morning, eat a teaspoon of 
butter, go for a brisk four-hour ride, and feel great. For that I'd need to 
be a true fat-burner, right? 

If I need to read and follow another food-and-exercise book, I'm willing. 
But I'd much rather just read a paragraph from you. So please, if you're 
willing, do tell us how we can burn fat and ride with abandon.

Thank you,
Evan Elliot
SF, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Deacon Patrick]

D Beer Stein (don’t sign you name I get to have fun with it. Grin.),

Ignore genetics. Ain’t nuffin’ you can do ‘bout that. And it’s likely far less 
a factor than people like to think. Reality is we all come from hearty stock, 
‘cause our lines are a couple million years old. Grin. So, nature, it is what 
it is and you’ve been dealt a pretty good hand, if only you can get the noise 
of confused (failure to) nurture out of the way so your body functions as God 
engineered it. Double grin. Learn to stop messing things up and it’s surprising 
how smoothly and better the body works. Grin. Here’s what I did...

Diet: become a fat burner and see what happens. Transition takes time and can 
be frustrating. So what? You come from hearty stock, remember?
Move smart: This includes effort level (aerobic for all but occational and 
short efforts), body mechanics (floor living strengthens core and limbers 
muscles so no stretching is needed ever, just go). Transition for all this 
takes time and can be frustrating. So what? You come from hearty stock, 
remember?
Move regularly: Use your human motor whenever possible. Invest in sythe, use a 
hand saw, walk, run, bike rather than drive when it’s within 15 miles. Get rid 
the appliances save for a few carefully chosen ones. Grind coffee by hand. You 
get the idea. Move. Regularly. Transition takes time and can be frustrating. So 
what? You come from hearty stock, remember?

Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Cameron Murphy]

I'm sure genetics plays a part, but quite a bit comes down to training and 
probably diet.  I started eating low carb about two years ago, and noticed 
after the rough first month or two of riding that my legs no longer burned 
on climbs.  (Overall speed and power took a hit during that transition, but 
recovered and eventually surpassed previous levels.)   I've read as much 
research as I can find on the subject, and apparently, fat adapted athletes 
do a much better job recycling the lactic acid that causes muscles to 
"burn".  Lactic acid metabolism isn't as efficient as burning glycogen, but 
it does produce energy.  As a nice side effect, it doesn't build up to 
levels that cause pain or muscle damage, at least not for me any more.  I 
can ride hard enough to feel like throwing up, and my heart will be about 
to explode, but my legs don't particularly hurt.  When I've gone too hard 
for too long, my legs simply start to lose power. It feels like I'm 
pressing the gas, and nothing happens.  (And I don't get any significant 
muscle soreness a day or two later like I used to.)

>From my (evolving) understanding of exercise and cycling, there are 
basically two main energy pathways for us humans:  Breaking down stored 
fat, or burning glycogen, a stored form of sugar that requires minimal 
oxygen for use.   At lower intensities, your body uses more fat burning, as 
it takes 2-3x more oxygen to break down then glycogen.  As intensity 
increases, you rely more and more on glycogen.  That's great, until you run 
out of glycogen (Most folks only have ~2000 calories of glycogen available, 
and it can't be replenished as fast as you can burn it.)   The whole goal 
of aerobic training is to improve your bodies ability to burn fat, so that 
you use a greater % of fat, and spare as much of the glycogen as possible 
for high intensity efforts.

I know that like most carb fueled Americans, I was lousy at burning fat.  
If I wasn't eating semi-regularly, I would get very hungry, and I didn't 
have much endurance.  Regardless of any other aspects of a low carb diet, I 
did get much better at burning fat.  I found that I could fast for a day at 
a time without much hunger, and I haven't experienced a "bonk" like I had 
before. Where I used to run out of energy after 1:30 to 2:00 of hard 
riding, now I'm good for 2-3x as much, without any particular energy 
intake.  (I get maybe 300 calories from my electrolyte drink mix over a 5 
hour ride.)   I'm sure this isn't all due to low carb and focusing on 
aerobic training, but I know I saw pretty rapid gains after somewhat 
plateauing on my previous training much closer to my limits for shorter 
rides.

I don't think low carb is perfect for all athletes, but for cycling, 
especially long distance cycling it seems to have some real benefits.  
(Research seems to show your peak power and explosive efforts take a bit of 
a hit compared to a high carb diet.)

Cameron Murphy
San Marcos, CA

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 10:15:00 AM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
> I need to dive more into the Dr. Maffetone stuff and maybe that will help 
> answer my question, but no matter how much or long or often I ride, my legs 
> kill me after 30-40 miles and 4k feet of climbing. I remember riding with 
> someone on this group (Ahem, Tony) on a ride last year where my quads were 
> killing me on a climb, and my fellow rider was very non-chalantly "oh, 
> weird, my legs never seem to hurt". great, i thought at the time, and threw 
> it off to genetics. Surely genetics help. But does this sort of training 
> help for the non-athletically inclined in terms of not having your legs 
> crap out on you?
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Cameron Murphy  > wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 6:23:47 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>> > If you’re needing recovery between rides you may be riding way past 
>> your aerobic threshold and riding yourself into the ground. If so, I 
>> recommend getting Phil Maffetone’s book(s) on building aerobic capacity.
>> > 
>> > With abandon,
>> > Patrick
>>
>>
>> +1 to this.  I've been training the last 6 months or so to do the coastal 
>> route at Eroica CA, and noticed a huge difference about 2 months in when I 
>> started applying some of Dr. Maffetone's ideas.  I had been doing 30-45 
>> mile rides at close to threshold the whole time.  Making progress, but not 
>> a bunch.  When I finally started paying attention to keeping my HR down, my 
>> HR stared getting much lower for similar effort levels.  Previously, my max 
>> HR was about 200 bpm, and almost any moderate effort would keep it pegged 
>> around 175-180.  Now, after probably 1000 miles of training, my max HR 
>> seems to be about 185, and moderate efforts keep my HR in the 150-165 
>> range.  I don't know exactly what changes have happened, other than I'm 
>> much stronger on the climbs, and my endurance is much better.
>>
>> Hard to say how much is due to working on aerobic fitness vs just the 
>> inc

Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[David Stein]

I need to dive more into the Dr. Maffetone stuff and maybe that will help
answer my question, but no matter how much or long or often I ride, my legs
kill me after 30-40 miles and 4k feet of climbing. I remember riding with
someone on this group (Ahem, Tony) on a ride last year where my quads were
killing me on a climb, and my fellow rider was very non-chalantly "oh,
weird, my legs never seem to hurt". great, i thought at the time, and threw
it off to genetics. Surely genetics help. But does this sort of training
help for the non-athletically inclined in terms of not having your legs
crap out on you?

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Cameron Murphy 
wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 6:23:47 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> > If you’re needing recovery between rides you may be riding way past your
> aerobic threshold and riding yourself into the ground. If so, I recommend
> getting Phil Maffetone’s book(s) on building aerobic capacity.
> >
> > With abandon,
> > Patrick
>
>
> +1 to this.  I've been training the last 6 months or so to do the coastal
> route at Eroica CA, and noticed a huge difference about 2 months in when I
> started applying some of Dr. Maffetone's ideas.  I had been doing 30-45
> mile rides at close to threshold the whole time.  Making progress, but not
> a bunch.  When I finally started paying attention to keeping my HR down, my
> HR stared getting much lower for similar effort levels.  Previously, my max
> HR was about 200 bpm, and almost any moderate effort would keep it pegged
> around 175-180.  Now, after probably 1000 miles of training, my max HR
> seems to be about 185, and moderate efforts keep my HR in the 150-165
> range.  I don't know exactly what changes have happened, other than I'm
> much stronger on the climbs, and my endurance is much better.
>
> Hard to say how much is due to working on aerobic fitness vs just the
> increased training volume, but I'm pretty happy with my progress either way.
>
> (I was moderately strong and fast before, but would hit a wall around
> 35-40 miles and just be done. Unfortunately, I haven't even lost any
> weight.  I'm actually about 5 lbs heavier than last year, but about 10%
> faster, and didn't have much trouble with the 90 miles at Eroica.)
>
> Cameron Murphy
> San Marcos, CA
>
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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Cameron Murphy]

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 6:23:47 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> If you’re needing recovery between rides you may be riding way past your 
> aerobic threshold and riding yourself into the ground. If so, I recommend 
> getting Phil Maffetone’s book(s) on building aerobic capacity.
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick


+1 to this.  I've been training the last 6 months or so to do the coastal route 
at Eroica CA, and noticed a huge difference about 2 months in when I started 
applying some of Dr. Maffetone's ideas.  I had been doing 30-45 mile rides at 
close to threshold the whole time.  Making progress, but not a bunch.  When I 
finally started paying attention to keeping my HR down, my HR stared getting 
much lower for similar effort levels.  Previously, my max HR was about 200 bpm, 
and almost any moderate effort would keep it pegged around 175-180.  Now, after 
probably 1000 miles of training, my max HR seems to be about 185, and moderate 
efforts keep my HR in the 150-165 range.  I don't know exactly what changes 
have happened, other than I'm much stronger on the climbs, and my endurance is 
much better.

Hard to say how much is due to working on aerobic fitness vs just the increased 
training volume, but I'm pretty happy with my progress either way.

(I was moderately strong and fast before, but would hit a wall around 35-40 
miles and just be done. Unfortunately, I haven't even lost any weight.  I'm 
actually about 5 lbs heavier than last year, but about 10% faster, and didn't 
have much trouble with the 90 miles at Eroica.)

Cameron Murphy
San Marcos, CA

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Neil Doran]

I know those trails well, and that is a grande ride. Super fun, even under 
biking, but then you gotta work. Plus the bummer pave at the end. I’m assuming 
you BARTed home?

I have attained the holy grail of adulthood with my 9 mile RT commute, replete 
with alternative coffee and beer stops, and lonely trails for the ‘long’ way 
home.

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Evan E.]

That's an impressive and inspiring commute, Bill. Love that second picture 
of the trail through the trees.

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Bill Lindsay]

Thanks all.  I feel good today, but my legs and shoulders are a bit sore 
from grinding up the steepies.  I'm thinking about trying the same route 
next time with my proper mountain bike and comparing my segment times.  
There should be definite advantages having 29x2.3" tires and shocks on the 
rougher stuff, but the drop bars and narrower tires should be faster on the 
smoother stuff.  Which bike will win?  That's another advantage to Strava, 
in that you can do semi-objective comparisons.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 8:47:44 AM UTC-7, Chris Corral wrote:
>
> Wow! Excellent route. Good work!
>
>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[Chris Corral]

Wow! Excellent route. Good work!

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 1:01:11 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> Back at the very beginning of my Rivendell career, in 2009, I was pretty 
> much strictly a roadie.  My Hillborne and the idea of "country bike" opened 
> up my world in many ways.  One of those ways was the idea of enjoying 
> taking the long way from A-to-B.  Over that first year or so I hatched an 
> idea for my 40-mile commute from El Cerrito to Union City.  Rather than 
> treat it as a hilly road ride with a couple dirt trail detours, I 
> contemplated doing it as a 25 mile mountain bike ride with a few road 
> connectors.  I had most of the route in my head, but there were still 
> several trails that I needed to add but had never ridden.  Now that I have 
> a cool GPS unit, I was able to build my route on RideWithGPS and upload it 
> to my device so I wouldn't get lost and wouldn't have to resort to the map 
> 50 times.  
>
> Anyhow, here's my route, discreetly edited to begin at a starting point 
> close-by but not-too-close to my front door.  RideWithGPS Extreme 
> Commuting 
>
> I did the ride for the first time this morning, which felt like a cool 
> accomplishment, since I'd been thinking about it for several years.  It was 
> ~42 miles and about 4700 feet of climbing, and it was pretty freaking 
> hard.  There were several pitches that my GPS assessed as >20% grade.  
> There were rocky, bumpy, rooty sections that made my BMC Monstercross feel 
> like serious underbiking.  The undeniable highlight is that these mountain 
> bike trails are by definition car-free, and that was delightful.  I might 
> decide to do the SFRandonneurs Marin Mountains 200k as a solo Permanent in 
> May, and this Extreme Commute route is a great training ride for that.  
>
>
> 
>
> This was one of the 20% grades, which is hard to see in the photo.  My 
> four finger salute was to celebrate passing 4,000 ft of climbing at this 
> point.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> So, make a plan, set a goal, see it through and celebrate
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
>
> P.S. One of the reasons I was able to pedal up 20% grades was I just 
> installed my turkey vulture shifter kit from Analog Cycles, which allowed 
> me to run a Deore XT clutch rear derailer with Shimano 10sp indexed barcons 
> (on Thumbies).  I was glad to have a 26x36 low gear.  
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Commuting--a checklist ride complete

[dstein]

Props for accomplishing this. I've ridden through Redwood/JMP to Chabot and 
on to San Leandro BART sticking to trails the whole way, which is only like 
a 3rd of this and it kicked my ass (though I started from rockridge bart so 
I was 5 miles of climbing in already). I don't do long road rides either, 
usually 25-35 miles so maybe I'm just a lightweight. But anyway, I know 
those trails and for the people on here not in the area, I can attest 
they're pretty freaking hard.

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