[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[carnerda...@bellsouth.net]

Stu,
As a fellow Sam Hillborne owner and a fan of the Swansea City Swans I was 
excited to see your post and pictures. My son is also a Swans fan and we had 
dreams of a trip to Swansea at the end of April to celebrate his fortieth 
birthday. Economics and family responsibilities have squashed those plans, but 
if we ever make it would hope to include a cycling tour in our plans.
David


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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Stuart Mackinnon]

Youre always welcome in Wales !

On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 3:49:09 PM UTC, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Och, Stu! That western isle seascape always tugs my bones. (My ancestors 
> are Welsh on my father's side, Argyle Peninsula on my mother's). Beautiful!
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Stu! Careful with blanket invitations though. You'd get to know me 
and regret it! Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-7, Stuart Mackinnon wrote:
>
> Youre always welcome in Wales !
>
> On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 3:49:09 PM UTC, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Och, Stu! That western isle seascape always tugs my bones. (My ancestors 
>> are Welsh on my father's side, Argyle Peninsula on my mother's). Beautiful!
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Stuart Mackinnon]

Hey yall. New here ! Im a Riv owner from Wales - Ive got a Sam Hillborne 
and the service from Will at Riv was awesome. Ive also bout lots of bags 
and other crap from them and again service and packing was second to none. 
Its only the import which is a killer but thats jack to do with them. 
Interestingly i also own a recently restored Mercian which i had done in 
the orange saluki style. Also have a condor heritage, again kitted out with 
lots of `riv gear.

Look forward to hearing from you.


Stu, Swansea, Wales


On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 8:55:40 PM UTC, Stephen Kemp wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am a Riv-luster in the UK. Are there any UK Riv owners on this group? 
> I'm pretty sure I will have a Riv one day but not just yet. Until then I go 
> through thought experiments about which would be my ideal. One of the 
> questions I ponder over is sizing and, being so far from Walnut Creek, how 
> do I try out any of the bikes...? I know the answer will come back at me 
> that when the time comes I should trust GP and the team on sizing advice 
> but still it would be nice to try a bike before committing to anything - it 
> would be really disappointing for it not to be right after all those years 
> of yearning. Hence it would be nice to hear from any UK owners and maybe 
> they could say something about how they went about making the right 
> decision, what they went for and where they're based - if you're anywhere 
> near Southampton it would be good to meet up for a ride (and maybe I could 
> even try your bike). For the record, if I went for a Sam, I'd be looking at 
> the 62cm so if anyone has one of those and is on/near the south coast then 
> get in touch!
>
> Thanks
> Stephen
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Deacon Patrick]

Och, Stu! That western isle seascape always tugs my bones. (My ancestors 
are Welsh on my father's side, Argyle Peninsula on my mother's). Beautiful!

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Ryan Fleming]

Wow...nice bikesI love the green Condor...more pictures please

On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 9:35:49 AM UTC-6, Stuart Mackinnon wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
> Hey yall. New here ! Im a Riv owner from Wales - Ive got a Sam Hillborne 
> and the service from Will at Riv was awesome. Ive also bout lots of bags 
> and other crap from them and again service and packing was second to none. 
> Its only the import which is a killer but thats jack to do with them. 
> Interestingly i also own a recently restored Mercian which i had done in 
> the orange saluki style. Also have a condor heritage, again kitted out with 
> lots of `riv gear.
>
> Look forward to hearing from you.
>
>
> 
> Stu, Swansea, Wales
>
>
> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 8:55:40 PM UTC, Stephen Kemp wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I am a Riv-luster in the UK. Are there any UK Riv owners on this group? 
>> I'm pretty sure I will have a Riv one day but not just yet. Until then I go 
>> through thought experiments about which would be my ideal. One of the 
>> questions I ponder over is sizing and, being so far from Walnut Creek, how 
>> do I try out any of the bikes...? I know the answer will come back at me 
>> that when the time comes I should trust GP and the team on sizing advice 
>> but still it would be nice to try a bike before committing to anything - it 
>> would be really disappointing for it not to be right after all those years 
>> of yearning. Hence it would be nice to hear from any UK owners and maybe 
>> they could say something about how they went about making the right 
>> decision, what they went for and where they're based - if you're anywhere 
>> near Southampton it would be good to meet up for a ride (and maybe I could 
>> even try your bike). For the record, if I went for a Sam, I'd be looking at 
>> the 62cm so if anyone has one of those and is on/near the south coast then 
>> get in touch!
>>
>> Thanks
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Patrick Moore]

 Croeso! (Or something like that.) What is all that green and west stuff?
Yes please, more pictures.

Patrick Moore, in high desert New Mexico, USA.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Stuart Mackinnon 
wrote:

>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
> Hey yall. New here ! Im a Riv owner from Wales - Ive got a Sam Hillborne
> and the service from Will at Riv was awesome. Ive also bout lots of bags
> and other crap from them and again service and packing was second to none.
> Its only the import which is a killer but thats jack to do with them.
> Interestingly i also own a recently restored Mercian which i had done in
> the orange saluki style. Also have a condor heritage, again kitted out with
> lots of `riv gear.
>
> Look forward to hearing from you.
>
>
> 
> Stu, Swansea, Wales
>
>
> On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 8:55:40 PM UTC, Stephen Kemp wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I am a Riv-luster in the UK. Are there any UK Riv owners on this group?
>> I'm pretty sure I will have a Riv one day but not just yet. Until then I go
>> through thought experiments about which would be my ideal. One of the
>> questions I ponder over is sizing and, being so far from Walnut Creek, how
>> do I try out any of the bikes...? I know the answer will come back at me
>> that when the time comes I should trust GP and the team on sizing advice
>> but still it would be nice to try a bike before committing to anything - it
>> would be really disappointing for it not to be right after all those years
>> of yearning. Hence it would be nice to hear from any UK owners and maybe
>> they could say something about how they went about making the right
>> decision, what they went for and where they're based - if you're anywhere
>> near Southampton it would be good to meet up for a ride (and maybe I could
>> even try your bike). For the record, if I went for a Sam, I'd be looking at
>> the 62cm so if anyone has one of those and is on/near the south coast then
>> get in touch!
>>
>> Thanks
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Patrick Moore]

Just to ensure that all is disclosed: at least 3 people have told me they
sold otherwise very nice Rivendells because the top tubes were too long.
These were road-type bikes meant for drop bars (Sam Hill was one, the
earlier Road Standards and -- perhaps -- LongLow -- another). And I was
another, with the Sam Hill: a very nice bike, but the 55 or 56 (at the
time; they may have changed the specs) had a 59 cm tt that was still too
long for me despite the 71* or so seat tube angle. That is to say, the long
tt was one of several reasons I sold mine, though had I room for a larger
stable, it would have made a wonderful "gravel bike," long tt and all.

That said, Grant designed 3 custom road bikes for me over the phone, and
the second 2 have long been my benchmarks for fit as well as handling and
"feel."



On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 1:18 PM, drew  wrote:

> i could be wrong, but i don't remember ever hearing or reading that
> someone bought a bike from riv in the size recommended and they were
> unhappy with the fit. though, i can see it being worth worrying  if you had
> abnormal body proportions or something.
>
> for me, im not sure how much i would get out of a test ride anyway. there
> would be so many other factors that could come into play and im not a
> geometry expert. i wouldnt trust myself to be able to weigh saddle height,
> stem length, bar choice against a frame's angles on a short ride.
>
> i live in los angeles and bought my 54cm hunqapillar without ever riding a
> rivendell. maybe going up there wouldve been more responsible, but i also
> wouldve been swayed by the diagatube that im not tall enough to
> realistically need. since then, ive bought a used 56cm sam (my recommended
> size), and my wife has a 45cm clem (her recommended size). we have zero
> complaints across the board.
>
> --
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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities
revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[William deRosset]

Dear Patrick,

That pattern was part of the Rivendell/Heron/late Bridgestone appeal. Grant's 
designs for road-going machines featured long-ish top tubes and (offsetting) 
slack-ish seat angles--perfect for the long of arm and femur. It was a common 
trope at the time that women tended to hate that design template.

That fit approach was also found on Lemond bicycles and others who followed the 
Guimard fitting regime.

Grant has further slacked his designs as his machines moved to accommodate 
higher handlebars then swept-back upright bars and the rearward weight bias 
that goes with them. 
Cheers,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Patrick Moore]

It was, but I've heard complaints about it by at least one *very* experienced
cyclist ("9,000 miles last year; it was a bad year...") and, IIRC, but I
won't insist on it, by a *very* experienced frame builder. I've read "The
Top Tube Ruse" or whatever it was, and agree it has some validity, but with
the Sam Hillborne in my size at the time, the top tube was simply too long
to allow the kind of bar I wanted in the position I wanted it. Raising it
quite a bit higher than my wont did work to a degree, but it wasn't the
solution I wanted.

But again, the 56.5-57 cm tts on my 73* st customs has been excellent with
8 cm stems; and the 58 cm Ram (blue model) fit me just fine with the 57 cm
tt.

(But O! that erstwhile Herse at 60 cm c-c and a 56 or 57 tt! One of the
nicest fits I've owned!)

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:01 PM, William deRosset 
wrote:

> Dear Patrick,
>
> That pattern was part of the Rivendell/Heron/late Bridgestone appeal.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Don Compton]

Patrick,
My Roadeo has a 58.2 tt, long for a 59( 57ctc) frame set. But the seat tube 
has a 72deg angle. It's the equivalent of a 73 deg seat tube with a shorter 
tt. I just us a Thomson 0 setback seat post and everything works. Grant's 
seat tube angles accomodate Brooks saddles. 
Don

On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 4:59:13 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> It was, but I've heard complaints about it by at least one *very* experienced 
> cyclist ("9,000 miles last year; it was a bad year...") and, IIRC, but I 
> won't insist on it, by a *very* experienced frame builder. I've read "The 
> Top Tube Ruse" or whatever it was, and agree it has some validity, but with 
> the Sam Hillborne in my size at the time, the top tube was simply too long 
> to allow the kind of bar I wanted in the position I wanted it. Raising it 
> quite a bit higher than my wont did work to a degree, but it wasn't the 
> solution I wanted.
>
> But again, the 56.5-57 cm tts on my 73* st customs has been excellent with 
> 8 cm stems; and the 58 cm Ram (blue model) fit me just fine with the 57 cm 
> tt.
>
> (But O! that erstwhile Herse at 60 cm c-c and a 56 or 57 tt! One of the 
> nicest fits I've owned!)
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:01 PM, William deRosset  > wrote:
>
>> Dear Patrick,
>>
>> That pattern was part of the Rivendell/Heron/late Bridgestone appeal. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Evan E.]

Stephen,

If you make the (long) trip to the Bay Area, let us know in advance of your 
arrival. I think many Riv riders (and Riv fans) would welcome you--and 
maybe even accompany you on your Riv test rides, if you would like.

Evan E.
SF, CA


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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[grrlyrida]

Like Drew I live in LA and tried out Betty Foys while up North for a 
wedding. I was so impressed with the staff and Grant that when I got back 
home, I choose a custom mixte. I was sized over the phone and trusted that 
Grant knew what he was doing and I was right. I take my mixte everywhere, 
except if I need to park it on the street downtown. It handles the LA 
potholed streets and the gravel on my most recent tour to Zion and Bryce. I 
know you won't be disappointed.

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:18:16 PM UTC-8, drew wrote:
>
> i could be wrong, but i don't remember ever hearing or reading that 
> someone bought a bike from riv in the size recommended and they were 
> unhappy with the fit. though, i can see it being worth worrying  if you had 
> abnormal body proportions or something.  
>
> for me, im not sure how much i would get out of a test ride anyway. there 
> would be so many other factors that could come into play and im not a 
> geometry expert. i wouldnt trust myself to be able to weigh saddle height, 
> stem length, bar choice against a frame's angles on a short ride. 
>
> i live in los angeles and bought my 54cm hunqapillar without ever riding a 
> rivendell. maybe going up there wouldve been more responsible, but i also 
> wouldve been swayed by the diagatube that im not tall enough to 
> realistically need. since then, ive bought a used 56cm sam (my recommended 
> size), and my wife has a 45cm clem (her recommended size). we have zero 
> complaints across the board. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[ChrisB]

Hi Stephen, Back in 2007 I bought an A Homer Hilsen from Riv. I was living 
in Yorkshire at the time with a baby on the way and Grant's philosophy 
about having fun and focusing on versatility really hit home. I sold a 
number of bikes to fund the complete bike (with racks and bags). The import 
duty and shipping was expensive but it was an investment and great value 
for money compared to other bikes that charge more and do less. I have 
since sold the bike (everyone close to me told me not to and that I would 
regret it). I think they'll be probably be proved right long term but my 
tastes changed (influenced by Grant I am sure, towards less fancy, more 
clearance, stouter tubes) and it was necessary with a growing family and 
limited funds. Like Patrick said, I wouldn't have any hesitation ordering 
direct from Riv. The sizing they chose for me was larger than I would have 
expected but the fit and ride were fantastic. Folks on the list have called 
it limousine-like and I think that comes close. Stable, smooth, comfortable 
over a long distance. I rode the Northern Coast to Coast on it, a few years 
ago now, with a Carradic saddle bag (light luggage) and if I were to select 
a bike from all those that I've ever owned to ride it again I would choose 
the AHH. When I sold it after 5 years of ownership it looked as good the 
day I got it (some things looked better with age: bar tape, Brooks B17 
Special honey saddle, some things I' d changed: Honjo Hammered mudguards).

In retrospect, had I bought the Atlantis back in 2007 (I overlooked it 
because I was still coming off the back of long sportive solo rides) I 
would still have that bike to day, no question. My all-time favourite is 
probably the orange double top tube canti Sam, though.

Good luck in your search but I wouldn't be concerned oredring off spec. I 
had no previous knowledge and coudln't have been more pleased with the AHH.

Best, Chris



On Thursday, 28 January 2016 20:55:40 UTC, Stephen Kemp wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I am a Riv-luster in the UK. Are there any UK Riv owners on this group? 
> I'm pretty sure I will have a Riv one day but not just yet. Until then I go 
> through thought experiments about which would be my ideal. One of the 
> questions I ponder over is sizing and, being so far from Walnut Creek, how 
> do I try out any of the bikes...? I know the answer will come back at me 
> that when the time comes I should trust GP and the team on sizing advice 
> but still it would be nice to try a bike before committing to anything - it 
> would be really disappointing for it not to be right after all those years 
> of yearning. Hence it would be nice to hear from any UK owners and maybe 
> they could say something about how they went about making the right 
> decision, what they went for and where they're based - if you're anywhere 
> near Southampton it would be good to meet up for a ride (and maybe I could 
> even try your bike). For the record, if I went for a Sam, I'd be looking at 
> the 62cm so if anyone has one of those and is on/near the south coast then 
> get in touch!
>
> Thanks
> Stephen
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Stephen Kemp]

Yes, I am aware of Mercian but whether or not they'd do it, it 
fundamentally seems a bit rude to get them to copy a GP bike. I like the 
cut of Riv's jib so it seems right to buy from the originator.

When it comes to body proportions, I am a bit abnormal - 6ft with 95cm pbh 
- which normally means going small to avoid being too stretched out for my 
short top half. Still, I have no worries that the Rivendell team would 
advise me well. Fitting advice is a regular topic here so I wasn't wanting 
to stimulate more of the same - my original point was to get an idea of 
anyone nearby so I'd get to see a bike in the flesh and so I'd be able to 
ride with some like-minded people. I guess there aren't many this side of 
the pond though!

Maybe I'll have to arrange a family holiday in CA...

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Stephen Kemp]

Thanks for the replies. Surprising that only one UK Riv Rider has 
identified themselves!

I hear what you're saying and that in a way I should just go for it but I'm 
not much of a consumer and when I buy things I like to make sure they're 
right. Especially this which I see as a once in a lifetime purchase.

>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[drew]

i could be wrong, but i don't remember ever hearing or reading that someone 
bought a bike from riv in the size recommended and they were unhappy with 
the fit. though, i can see it being worth worrying  if you had abnormal 
body proportions or something.  

for me, im not sure how much i would get out of a test ride anyway. there 
would be so many other factors that could come into play and im not a 
geometry expert. i wouldnt trust myself to be able to weigh saddle height, 
stem length, bar choice against a frame's angles on a short ride. 

i live in los angeles and bought my 54cm hunqapillar without ever riding a 
rivendell. maybe going up there wouldve been more responsible, but i also 
wouldve been swayed by the diagatube that im not tall enough to 
realistically need. since then, ive bought a used 56cm sam (my recommended 
size), and my wife has a 45cm clem (her recommended size). we have zero 
complaints across the board. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Tim Gavin]

Stephen-

Have you visited Mercian cycles ?  Derby
isn't close to Southampton, but it's closer than Walnut Creek.

Mercian's bikes are very old-school, in all the good ways: gorgeous lugs,
custom paint, classic geometry.

They do custom geometry, but I don't know if they would be willing to a
custom similar to a Sam -- the double top tube would be right out, for
one.  Mercian's bikes seem very traditional, whereas Grant's designs are
pretty progressive (for lugged steel).

At the very least, it would be wonderful to get a fitting and tour the
Mercian shop (if possible).  A custom Mercian Vincitoire is on my dream
bike list.

Cheers,
Tim Gavin
Cedar Rapids, IA

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Stephen Kemp 
wrote:

> Thanks for the replies. Surprising that only one UK Riv Rider has
> identified themselves!
>
> I hear what you're saying and that in a way I should just go for it but
> I'm not much of a consumer and when I buy things I like to make sure
> they're right. Especially this which I see as a once in a lifetime purchase.
>
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in the UK

[Deacon Patrick]

Hello Stephen! You already know the answer to your question -- but it seems 
so odd you are afraid to trust it (to trust Grant and Co.).

If it helps at all, I bought my first Riv. with only phone calls and 
internet drooling. Grant sized me perfectly. Yes, like you, I'd have loved 
to try one out, but I really wouldn't have gained anything by doing so. 
Grant and Co. really do know what they are doing.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 1:55:40 PM UTC-7, Stephen Kemp wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am a Riv-luster in the UK. Are there any UK Riv owners on this group? 
>

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