: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 7:37
PM
To: Law Religion issues for
Law Academics
Subject: RE: Free speech for
chaplains
Sandy helps illustrate my point. There are some
soldiers, like Sandy, who do not wish chaplains to try to save them. They
believe they are just fine the way they are thanks.But
Religion issues for Law Academics religionlaw@lists.ucla.eduSent: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:37:07 -0700 (PDT)Subject: RE: Free speech for chaplains
Sandy helps illustrate my point. There are some soldiers, like Sandy, who do not wish chaplains to try to save them. They believe they are just fine
chaplinof another denomination who sincerely believed you wereutterly lostwithout conversion to his religious view?-Original Message-From: Rick Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics religionlaw@lists.ucla.eduSent: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:37:07 -0700 (PDT)Subject
denomination who sincerely believed you were utterly lost without
conversion to his religious view?
-Original Message-
From: Rick Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
Sent: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: Free
Mark asks a good question.
I don't know how the military hires chaplins, but I expect it is by religion-neutral credentials ("ordained" status, theology degree, etc). So in one sense this is a religious test. But it is not a test that turns on the military's disapproval of a particular religious
Of course, this isn't a context in which religious tests can be eliminated
altogether. (Query: Why isn't it therefore a violation of article VI?) But
the military clergy hiring must be nondenominational, i.e., made without
sectarian discrimination. (But cf. the recent Simpson Wiccan
The leading (and quite thorough) opinion on the military chaplaincy
and the Establishment Clause is Katcoff v. Marsh, 755 F. 2d 223
(2nd Cir. 1985). The justification for chaplains is to minister to
religious needs of members of the Armed Forces. Frequently, the
circumstances of soldiers
I don't think any chaplin can minister to all soldiers. For example, many believing Christians could not be ministered to by a chaplin who did not believe that Christ is what He said he was, the only way to the Father. Any attempt to exclude chaplins who preach salvation through Christ is a form
I have a question for Marty. If it violates the EC for a chaplin to preach--in his official capacity--the doctrine of salvation by faith in Christ, thenwhy aren'tall official sermons and prayers violations of the EC? Surely, the EC does not allow the official praying of some prayers and the
A larger problem is that while people like us fret about the chaplains'
free-speech rights, at least some evangelical chaplains care little about the
letter or spirit of the rules within which their position is intended to
operate. Some, it is becoming clear, have their own agenda, and, when
It seems to me that, as with much in the military (not
everything, perhaps, but much), the First Amendment neither mandates nor
forbids any particular military policy with regard to chaplains' speech.
The Establishment Clause surely can't bar chaplains from endorsing some
theological views
entitled to show those chaplains the door.
Eugene
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rick DuncanSent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:47
AMTo: Law Religion issues for Law AcademicsSubject:
RE: Free speech for chaplains
I am far less concerned
Rick: It has been always my understanding that a military chaplin
serves the military and all military personnel; in WWI and WWII there
were cases of Jewish and Protestant chaplins giving last rites to
Catholic soldiers; and Catholic priests helping Jews have a sedar or
helping them be
of the
chaplains.
-Original Message-
From: Sanford Levinson
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July
12, 2005 10:48 AM
To: Law Religion issues for
Law Academics; Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: Free speech for
chaplains
There is a fascinating article in today's NYTimes
Religion issues for
Law Academics
Subject: RE: Free speech for
chaplains
Sandy's question is an interesting one. Can the
military fire or disciplinea chaplin because the military disagrees with
his religious beliefs (or at least with his preaching of his religious
beliefs)? Doesn't such a decision
Rick asks:
By the way, am I too sensitive or do I perceive a certain animus toward
evangelicals in this discussion?
Not
surprisingly, perhaps, my initial posting was generated by an evangelical
memorial sermon, presumably an "official" activity on the Navy ship where it
occurred,that
For what it's worth in this discussion, I have now found several
stories on-line about Klingenschmitt that report, among other things,
that he was a strenuous advocate for a Jewish sailor for whom the
Navy had not supplied sufficient kosher food aboard ship.
See, e.g.,
Martin Marty had a short piece on the issue of military chaplains in his
Sightings from the Martin Marty Center at the University of Chicago
Divinity School this week. If you are interested, I have pasted it
below:
Sightings 7/11/05
The Decline of Military Chaplaincy
-- Martin E. Marty
Rick writes:
If I were on a road heading for
a cliff, I would want to be told that the road I was on was bad and that another
road was good. The same is true of the spiritual roads I travel. If Iwere
heading for Hell, I would not want a chaplain to comfort me and tell me that
everything
Sandy helps illustrate my point. There are some soldiers, like Sandy, who do not wish chaplains to try to save them. They believe they are just fine the way they are thanks.But there are other soldiers, perhaps likeI once was,who are searching forGod and for salvation and want chaplains to show
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