Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Ben wrote: If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. The experience I have heard from everyone else is just the opposite. The DTV signal requires much more antenna then analog. A station only a mile or two away that is perfect in analog is unwatchable in DTV. And even when it is watchable by putting up an antenna outside, it's not any better quality then analog on the same size TV. One issue I see is people are NOT comparing apples to apples. You can't compare a 20 analog to a 36 flat panel. My 27 analog TV at home has as good a pic from DirecTV as any ~27 flat panel I've seen, and better then most. Flat panels distort when there is movement in the video. It gets a 'smear' that makes it hard to focus. I'll keep my CRT, thank you very much.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Your sources are mis-informed. If your too close to the transmitter than likely your fighting multipath which is more harmful to DTV than analog, but it absolutly requires less signal to noise to get the DTV signal than analog. I have expierenced many times first hand. Also reflected in the fact most stations DTV counterparts run at a fraction of the power as the analog and cover the same, if not more, area. Lets embrace DTV so leff rf across all the frequencies is being produced- Couldn't hurt your radios or repeater recievers! (That was to get this post on topic ;) ) As for display technologies- records sound better than CD's too And the Drake TR7 sounds better that an Icom 7800. Watch what your happy watching but don't judge flat panel technology on the crappy sets you see showing crappy distributed signals at walmart or costco. Yes- there can be problems with motion but done right it still looks good. Give them a chance- we have had 50+ years to perfect the CRT technology, and flat panel is-6 to 8 years at the most. Good luck showing a 1080p24 BlueRay on your Tube! wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben wrote: If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. The experience I have heard from everyone else is just the opposite. The DTV signal requires much more antenna then analog. A station only a mile or two away that is perfect in analog is unwatchable in DTV. And even when it is watchable by putting up an antenna outside, it's not any better quality then analog on the same size TV. One issue I see is people are NOT comparing apples to apples. You can't compare a 20 analog to a 36 flat panel. My 27 analog TV at home has as good a pic from DirecTV as any ~27 flat panel I've seen, and better then most. Flat panels distort when there is movement in the video. It gets a 'smear' that makes it hard to focus. I'll keep my CRT, thank you very much. Yahoo! Groups Links - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
TGundo 2003 wrote: Your sources are mis-informed. This isn't mis-information. This is personal experience. DTV requires MORE antenna to work without breakup. Where a little snow is perfectly tolerable, even a flinch of digital breakup once in a while can make it unwatchable. If your too close to the transmitter than likely your fighting multipath which is more harmful to DTV than analog, but it absolutly requires less signal to noise to get the DTV signal than analog. I have expierenced many times first hand. Also reflected in the fact most stations DTV counterparts run at a fraction of the power as the analog and cover the same, if not more, area. Lets embrace DTV so leff rf across all the frequencies is being produced- Couldn't hurt your radios or repeater recievers! (That was to get this post on topic ;) ) I have experienced the opposite first hand. DTV sucks. And yes, the lower-powered DTV signal generates FAR more hash on adjacent frequencies. How about 42 dB of desense on 52.5 Mhz from DTV ch 2? 15 miles away? After EXTENSIVE filtering at the TV transmitter? How about measuring -70 to -80 dBm 2 MHz below the bottom of the channel 7-8 miles from the site? After that filtering was done? As for display technologies- records sound better than CD's too And the Drake TR7 sounds better that an Icom 7800. Watch what your happy watching but don't judge flat panel technology on the crappy sets you see showing crappy distributed signals at walmart or costco. Yes- there can be problems with motion but done right it still looks good. Give them a chance- we have had 50+ years to perfect the CRT technology, and flat panel is-6 to 8 years at the most. Good luck showing a 1080p24 BlueRay on your Tube! Well, the crappy sets are apparently all that is available at ANY store. Flat panels retain the image longer then a CRT. That has always been a problem with flat panels, and still is. It causes the image to 'smear' during rapid movement, making it difficult to impossible to focus on.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
LG will have a model 1st quarter this year with an MSRP (right now) of $50.00, and the scuttlebutt is that it will drop to $40 when it ships, making it free for those who have coupons. Keep an eye on CES this week, you will probably see it displayed there (Somewhere far away from the Laser TV mitsubishi is showing). Tom W9SRV Ron Wright, Skywarn Coodinator [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi all, Feb 29, 2009 is the date. Here in Tampa Bay, FL, area we have a number of independent and of course the regular affiliates. Ch 10 NTSC has ch 24 for HDTV, but near the 2009 date they will replace the Ch 10 with a NTSC/HDTV (quick mod for going to HDTV) and turn off the Ch 24. They spent over $1,000,000 on 24 and it will be turned off and I assume for sale to someone somewhere needing a 24 HDTV tx. The FCC required them to do this to keep Ch 10 license. The converter boxes will be needed by the 14% over the air NTSC TVs viewers. The gov is giving up to two $40/house hold coupons for the purchase. You can apply at www.dtv2009.gov for the coupons. They have link to sources for the converters, but as of now there are no listings. They predict the boxes will go for $50-70, but I have not seen any for less than $170. You will need a converter for each TV unless you watch the same on all of what you have. Most of the TV stations here do not have HDTV cameras and other studio equipment. One does and brags about its remotes are HDTV equipped. For us who have cable and sat we will not be affected at least for now. 73, ron, n9ee/r --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 1/6/2008 09:10, you wrote: Broadcasters are really wanting this mess to be over. My former station, KVOA is spending more than twice as much on elect, cooling etc running two transmitters. One on 4 and one on 23. The stations all want to stop the bleeding of money. I thought that the broadcasters would actually fight this, as there will definitely be a reduction in OTA viewership (hence ratings, hence advert. $$$) the second the analogs are switched off. I own 5 non-DTV TVs (not including an old Watchman), since satellite TV is unaffected I will probably forget the mostly useless OTA programming (I don't/won't pay for locals via the dish) continue to watch std. def. TV via the dishes. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
hi all, Feb 29, 2009 is the date. Here in Tampa Bay, FL, area we have a number of independent and of course the regular affiliates. Ch 10 NTSC has ch 24 for HDTV, but near the 2009 date they will replace the Ch 10 with a NTSC/HDTV (quick mod for going to HDTV) and turn off the Ch 24. They spent over $1,000,000 on 24 and it will be turned off and I assume for sale to someone somewhere needing a 24 HDTV tx. The FCC required them to do this to keep Ch 10 license. The converter boxes will be needed by the 14% over the air NTSC TVs viewers. The gov is giving up to two $40/house hold coupons for the purchase. You can apply at www.dtv2009.gov for the coupons. They have link to sources for the converters, but as of now there are no listings. They predict the boxes will go for $50-70, but I have not seen any for less than $170. You will need a converter for each TV unless you watch the same on all of what you have. Most of the TV stations here do not have HDTV cameras and other studio equipment. One does and brags about its remotes are HDTV equipped. For us who have cable and sat we will not be affected at least for now. 73, ron, n9ee/r --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 1/6/2008 09:10, you wrote: Broadcasters are really wanting this mess to be over. My former station, KVOA is spending more than twice as much on elect, cooling etc running two transmitters. One on 4 and one on 23. The stations all want to stop the bleeding of money. I thought that the broadcasters would actually fight this, as there will definitely be a reduction in OTA viewership (hence ratings, hence advert. $$$) the second the analogs are switched off. I own 5 non-DTV TVs (not including an old Watchman), since satellite TV is unaffected I will probably forget the mostly useless OTA programming (I don't/won't pay for locals via the dish) continue to watch std. def. TV via the dishes. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
My biggest problem with this whole DTV deal is that you can already apply for those couponds for the converter boxes but nobody seems to carry them or have any info online about them. And you can only get a coupon Between January 1, 2008 and March 31, 2009, while supplies last and they are only good for 90 days. I need two of these damm things and want to do my research before I go out and buy new equipment. Kerry KE5OFO
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Best Buy has them here. Jamey Wright Systems Analyst/EDACS Administrator Morgan County EMCD 911 Decatur, AL 256-552-0911 -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kerry Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 9:01 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda My biggest problem with this whole DTV deal is that you can already apply for those couponds for the converter boxes but nobody seems to carry them or have any info online about them. And you can only get a coupon Between January 1, 2008 and March 31, 2009, while supplies last and they are only good for 90 days. I need two of these damm things and want to do my research before I go out and buy new equipment. Kerry KE5OFO
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
- Original Message - From: kf0m To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda As far as freeing up spectrum, I think it is just semantics. Right now almost all stations are running two TX on two different frequencies one analog one digital. When they go all digital, the stations all go back to one TX on one frequency so half of the channel frequencies currently in use will be come unused and available. The fact that all those channel frequencies were already allocated for TV use prior to starting the digital conversion just seems to be forgotten in the propaganda. John Lock kf0m at arrl.net Actually, there will be a huge amount of spectrum freed up. Currently, the television allocation is from channel 2 through channel 69. After February 2009, all analog operation will cease and all of the digital stations will be occulying only the channels 2 through 51. Thus, eighteen 6-MHz channels will be freed up, or a total of 108 MHz. Hap Griffin WZ4O
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
But, how is that related to the transition to digital? The same could have happened with simple channel reassignment. Joe M. Hap Griffin wrote: Actually, there will be a huge amount of spectrum freed up. Currently, the television allocation is from channel 2 through channel 69. After February 2009, all analog operation will cease and all of the digital stations will be occulying only the channels 2 through 51. Thus, eighteen 6-MHz channels will be freed up, or a total of 108 MHz. Hap Griffin WZ4O
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
The transistion to the 'core' spectrum started happening around 2001, mostly with the low power translators. DTV transistion sounds better in print than Bandwidth snatch. See channels 70-83. I understand that the auctions for the 108 MHz will yield between 1 and 4 billion dollars. At least they didn't get what was left of 220 or 902-928. On 1/7/08, MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, how is that related to the transition to digital? The same could have happened with simple channel reassignment. Joe M. Hap Griffin wrote: Actually, there will be a huge amount of spectrum freed up. Currently, the television allocation is from channel 2 through channel 69. After February 2009, all analog operation will cease and all of the digital stations will be occulying only the channels 2 through 51. Thus, eighteen 6-MHz channels will be freed up, or a total of 108 MHz. Hap Griffin WZ4O Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
DCFluX wrote: DTV transistion sounds better in print than Bandwidth snatch. See channels 70-83. I understand that the auctions for the 108 MHz will yield between 1 and 4 billion dollars. Since it's only $4 billion we just won't bother looking for it ending up anywhere useful. No one seems to know where it's going to go. Not a shred of accountability about what the role of a regulator is supposed to be, but it's not supposed to be RF-Mart, as best as I remember from Civics class about the role of government. The FCC isn't supposed to be a revenue-generating organization. Sorry -- off-topic. I'll shut up about it now. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Not really. With the huge power in NTSC analog signals around the visual and aural carriers, as well as the color subcarrier, stations had to be geographically far apart to be able to share channels. Even odd channel pairings such as the taboo relationships whereby stations could not operate close together if they were on pairs differing by 8 channels (8 x 6 MHz = 48 MHz which falls in the receivers' IF passbands) could not be used. The high powers concentrated at the visual carriers even required adjacent stations to shift their frequencies by 10 KHz. Digital transmitters operate with generally lower power and that power is noise-like, spead evenly across each 6 MHz channel. With the inherent error checking and correction power built into the ATSC digital television system, digital-into-digital interference is much less of a problem than analog-into-analog interference was. Therefore, it is possible to cram all 1600 broadcast stations into less spectrum with digital. It could not have been done with analog. Digital reception is amazing. At WRLK in Columbia, SC, we are running 650 kilowatts ERP on analog on channel 35, and simultaneously from the same antenna, 65 kilowatts of digital on channel 32. The digital station can be received perfectly at locations where the analog station is unwatchable in the snow. Once the analog transmitters can be turned off, broadcasters' electric bills will be MUCH less than they are today. My eleven station network pays over a half million $$$ in electrical costs per year. We expect it to be cut to about one third of that after next year. Hap Griffin WZ4O - Original Message - From: MCH To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda But, how is that related to the transition to digital? The same could have happened with simple channel reassignment. Joe M. Hap Griffin wrote: Actually, there will be a huge amount of spectrum freed up. Currently, the television allocation is from channel 2 through channel 69. After February 2009, all analog operation will cease and all of the digital stations will be occulying only the channels 2 through 51. Thus, eighteen 6-MHz channels will be freed up, or a total of 108 MHz. Hap Griffin WZ4O
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
I am more concerned about what happens to the old analog iron and the antenna. There is a limited market for something considered obsolete by the entire nation. On 1/7/08, Hap Griffin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really. With the huge power in NTSC analog signals around the visual and aural carriers, as well as the color subcarrier, stations had to be geographically far apart to be able to share channels. Even odd channel pairings such as the taboo relationships whereby stations could not operate close together if they were on pairs differing by 8 channels (8 x 6 MHz = 48 MHz which falls in the receivers' IF passbands) could not be used. The high powers concentrated at the visual carriers even required adjacent stations to shift their frequencies by 10 KHz. Digital transmitters operate with generally lower power and that power is noise-like, spead evenly across each 6 MHz channel. With the inherent error checking and correction power built into the ATSC digital television system, digital-into-digital interference is much less of a problem than analog-into-analog interference was. Therefore, it is possible to cram all 1600 broadcast stations into less spectrum with digital. It could not have been done with analog. Digital reception is amazing. At WRLK in Columbia, SC, we are running 650 kilowatts ERP on analog on channel 35, and simultaneously from the same antenna, 65 kilowatts of digital on channel 32. The digital station can be received perfectly at locations where the analog station is unwatchable in the snow. Once the analog transmitters can be turned off, broadcasters' electric bills will be MUCH less than they are today. My eleven station network pays over a half million $$$ in electrical costs per year. We expect it to be cut to about one third of that after next year. Hap Griffin WZ4O - Original Message - *From:* MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, January 07, 2008 6:04 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda But, how is that related to the transition to digital? The same could have happened with simple channel reassignment. Joe M. Hap Griffin wrote: Actually, there will be a huge amount of spectrum freed up. Currently, the television allocation is from channel 2 through channel 69. After February 2009, all analog operation will cease and all of the digital stations will be occulying only the channels 2 through 51. Thus, eighteen 6-MHz channels will be freed up, or a total of 108 MHz. Hap Griffin WZ4O
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
There are always third world countries... I know the local TV-2 TX is a little too 'hot' for my 6M repeater. ;- But ohhh... to think of a Megawatt 6M machine... then to think of the electric bill... Joe M. DCFluX wrote: I am more concerned about what happens to the old analog iron and the antenna. There is a limited market for something considered obsolete by the entire nation. On 1/7/08, Hap Griffin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really. With the huge power in NTSC analog signals around the visual and aural carriers, as well as the color subcarrier, stations had to be geographically far apart to be able to share channels. Even odd channel pairings such as the taboo relationships whereby stations could not operate close together if they were on pairs differing by 8 channels (8 x 6 MHz = 48 MHz which falls in the receivers' IF passbands) could not be used. The high powers concentrated at the visual carriers even required adjacent stations to shift their frequencies by 10 KHz. Digital transmitters operate with generally lower power and that power is noise-like, spead evenly across each 6 MHz channel. With the inherent error checking and correction power built into the ATSC digital television system, digital-into-digital interference is much less of a problem than analog-into-analog interference was. Therefore, it is possible to cram all 1600 broadcast stations into less spectrum with digital. It could not have been done with analog. Digital reception is amazing. At WRLK in Columbia, SC, we are running 650 kilowatts ERP on analog on channel 35, and simultaneously from the same antenna, 65 kilowatts of digital on channel 32. The digital station can be received perfectly at locations where the analog station is unwatchable in the snow. Once the analog transmitters can be turned off, broadcasters' electric bills will be MUCH less than they are today. My eleven station network pays over a half million $$$ in electrical costs per year. We expect it to be cut to about one third of that after next year. Hap Griffin WZ4O - Original Message - From: MCH To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda But, how is that related to the transition to digital? The same could have happened with simple channel reassignment. Joe M. Hap Griffin wrote: Actually, there will be a huge amount of spectrum freed up. Currently, the television allocation is from channel 2 through channel 69. After February 2009, all analog operation will cease and all of the digital stations will be occulying only the channels 2 through 51. Thus, eighteen 6-MHz channels will be freed up, or a total of 108 MHz. Hap Griffin WZ4O
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
I am thinking a really nice 6M repeater for some of the old Chan 2 stuff. Vern On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:49:27 -0700 DCFluX [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am more concerned about what happens to the old analog iron and the antenna. There is a limited market for something considered obsolete by the entire nation. On 1/7/08, Hap Griffin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really. With the huge power in NTSC analog signals around the visual and aural carriers, as well as the color subcarrier, stations had to be geographically far apart to be able to share channels. Even odd channel pairings such as the taboo relationships whereby stations could not operate close together if they were on pairs differing by 8 channels (8 x 6 MHz = 48 MHz which falls in the receivers' IF passbands) could not be used. The high powers concentrated at the visual carriers even required adjacent stations to shift their frequencies by 10 KHz. Digital transmitters operate with generally lower power and that power is noise-like, spead evenly across each 6 MHz channel. With the inherent error checking and correction power built into the ATSC digital television system, digital-into-digital interference is much less of a problem than analog-into-analog interference was. Therefore, it is possible to cram all 1600 broadcast stations into less spectrum with digital. It could not have been done with analog. Digital reception is amazing. At WRLK in Columbia, SC, we are running 650 kilowatts ERP on analog on channel 35, and simultaneously from the same antenna, 65 kilowatts of digital on channel 32. The digital station can be received perfectly at locations where the analog station is unwatchable in the snow. Once the analog transmitters can be turned off, broadcasters' electric bills will be MUCH less than they are today. My eleven station network pays over a half million $$$ in electrical costs per year. We expect it to be cut to about one third of that after next year. Hap Griffin WZ4O - Original Message - *From:* MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, January 07, 2008 6:04 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda But, how is that related to the transition to digital? The same could have happened with simple channel reassignment. Joe M. Hap Griffin wrote: Actually, there will be a huge amount of spectrum freed up. Currently, the television allocation is from channel 2 through channel 69. After February 2009, all analog operation will cease and all of the digital stations will be occulying only the channels 2 through 51. Thus, eighteen 6-MHz channels will be freed up, or a total of 108 MHz. Hap Griffin WZ4O
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Within any 6 MHz channel, there can be up to four program channels. Except if one channel is HDTV 1080i,then there is only enough bandwidth for two other channels. I suppose if a station is cheap enough not to buy the equipment, they would still use the full 6Mz bandwidth for one channel, which, I agree, is a waste. The magic of DTV is due to digital compression: if the same pixels are in subsequent frames, they are not transmitted twice. There is also a time- to frequency domain conversion done digitally that allows further compression. A full, uncompressed, HDTV signal would require 290 Mbyte/second, the actual data are 19.38 Mbytes/second on a channel, that is how powerful the compression is. PBS in Buffalo NY is transmitting three channels, the regular WNED feed, plus a HDTV feed which is sometimes the same as the regular analog WNED and sometimes has special programming, and a third children's educational channel. Other Buffalo stations are transmitting combinations of old movies, live sports, and local WX and road condx on their other channels. If you want further information, I highly recommend Digital television Fundamentals by Michael Robin and Michel Poulin. I am teaching this at college and found the book very useful in switching from the old analog course to digital. 73, Nigel ve3id --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't picture that ever happening; I understand it will allow each station to broadcast multiple programs, should they choose to. Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Not exactly true. Analog operation for TV in metro areas will cease in Feb 2009. LPTV and translators that are analog will be allowed to continue operating and currently have no sunset time. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 02:18:08 PM CST From: Hap Griffin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda - Original Message - From: kf0m To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda As far as freeing up spectrum, I think it is just semantics. Right now almost all stations are running two TX on two different frequencies one analog one digital. When they go all digital, the stations all go back to one TX on one frequency so half of the channel frequencies currently in use will be come unused and available. The fact that all those channel frequencies were already allocated for TV use prior to starting the digital conversion just seems to be forgotten in the propaganda. John Lock kf0m at arrl.net Actually, there will be a huge amount of spectrum freed up. Currently, the television allocation is from channel 2 through channel 69. After February 2009, all analog operation will cease and all of the digital stations will be occulying only the channels 2 through 51. Thus, eighteen 6-MHz channels will be freed up, or a total of 108 MHz. Hap Griffin WZ4O
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
At 1/7/2008 22:23, you wrote: Not exactly true. Analog operation for TV in metro areas will cease in Feb 2009. LPTV and translators that are analog will be allowed to continue operating and currently have no sunset time. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those LPTV stations suddenly became major network affiliates on Feb. '09. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else here seen the bull put out by NTIA on https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx = 1. What is the digital television transition? At midnight on February 17, 2009, all full-power television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting promises to provide a clearer picture and more programming options and will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders. = will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? As there are some broadcast types here, maybe someone can explain the technology used where X analog stations using 6 MHz each will be more efficient by the same number of stations using 6 MHz each. Is this that new math they are using? I would like to apply the same to 2M to get more spectrum out of it. If I take my 16 kHz analog signal and make it 16 kHz digital, will we be able to fit more repeaters in the band? (aside from the fact most will have no users) Joe M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
All of the Buffalo, Erie, Toronto and Rochester TV stations have gone to UHF. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Dan Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 6:50 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else here seen the bull put out by NTIA on https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx = 1. What is the digital television transition? At midnight on February 17, 2009, all full-power television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting promises to provide a clearer picture and more programming options and will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders. = will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? As there are some broadcast types here, maybe someone can explain the technology used where X analog stations using 6 MHz each will be more efficient by the same number of stations using 6 MHz each. Is this that new math they are using? I would like to apply the same to 2M to get more spectrum out of it. If I take my 16 kHz analog signal and make it 16 kHz digital, will we be able to fit more repeaters in the band? (aside from the fact most will have no users) Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Chuck, No they have not switched to UHFdunno where you got that info? I use an antenna here and still receive all of the VHF stations in Toronto and Buffalo. Erie is a problem for us with a high power channel 13 station in this area so Ch 12 is unwatchable. 73 John VE3AMZ Waterloo Ontario - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda All of the Buffalo, Erie, Toronto and Rochester TV stations have gone to UHF. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Dan Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 6:50 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else here seen the bull put out by NTIA on https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx = 1. What is the digital television transition? At midnight on February 17, 2009, all full-power television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting promises to provide a clearer picture and more programming options and will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders. = will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? As there are some broadcast types here, maybe someone can explain the technology used where X analog stations using 6 MHz each will be more efficient by the same number of stations using 6 MHz each. Is this that new math they are using? I would like to apply the same to 2M to get more spectrum out of it. If I take my 16 kHz analog signal and make it 16 kHz digital, will we be able to fit more repeaters in the band? (aside from the fact most will have no users) Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
I jumped the gun. The are going to UHF if they are not already there now. I am watching ALL of the Buffalo stations on UHF right now. I realize that the VHF transmitters are still operating. Chuck - Original Message - From: John J. Riddell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda Chuck, No they have not switched to UHFdunno where you got that info? I use an antenna here and still receive all of the VHF stations in Toronto and Buffalo. Erie is a problem for us with a high power channel 13 station in this area so Ch 12 is unwatchable. 73 John VE3AMZ Waterloo Ontario - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda All of the Buffalo, Erie, Toronto and Rochester TV stations have gone to UHF. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Dan Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 6:50 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else here seen the bull put out by NTIA on https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx = 1. What is the digital television transition? At midnight on February 17, 2009, all full-power television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting promises to provide a clearer picture and more programming options and will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders. = will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? As there are some broadcast types here, maybe someone can explain the technology used where X analog stations using 6 MHz each will be more efficient by the same number of stations using 6 MHz each. Is this that new math they are using? I would like to apply the same to 2M to get more spectrum out of it. If I take my 16 kHz analog signal and make it 16 kHz digital, will we be able to fit more repeaters in the band? (aside from the fact most will have no users) Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Take a look here: http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/ Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: John J. Riddell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda Chuck, No they have not switched to UHFdunno where you got that info? I use an antenna here and still receive all of the VHF stations in Toronto and Buffalo. Erie is a problem for us with a high power channel 13 station in this area so Ch 12 is unwatchable. 73 John VE3AMZ Waterloo Ontario - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda All of the Buffalo, Erie, Toronto and Rochester TV stations have gone to UHF. Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
That is not correct. There will be some DTV on VHF. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 05:50:21 AM CST From: Dan Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else here seen the bull put out by NTIA on https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx = 1. What is the digital television transition? At midnight on February 17, 2009, all full-power television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting promises to provide a clearer picture and more programming options and will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders. = will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? As there are some broadcast types here, maybe someone can explain the technology used where X analog stations using 6 MHz each will be more efficient by the same number of stations using 6 MHz each. Is this that new math they are using? I would like to apply the same to 2M to get more spectrum out of it. If I take my 16 kHz analog signal and make it 16 kHz digital, will we be able to fit more repeaters in the band? (aside from the fact most will have no users) Joe M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
There is a DTV allocation in Harrisburg, PA for channel 2. Originally, they were all going to be on UHF, but that changed. Joe M. Dan Hancock wrote: It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else here seen the bull put out by NTIA on https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx = 1. What is the digital television transition? At midnight on February 17, 2009, all full-power television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting promises to provide a clearer picture and more programming options and will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders. = will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? As there are some broadcast types here, maybe someone can explain the technology used where X analog stations using 6 MHz each will be more efficient by the same number of stations using 6 MHz each. Is this that new math they are using? I would like to apply the same to 2M to get more spectrum out of it. If I take my 16 kHz analog signal and make it 16 kHz digital, will we be able to fit more repeaters in the band? (aside from the fact most will have no users) Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
It would be interesting to know if the analog TV shutdown is going to occur in CA MX. If not, we might see a number of new analog stations across the border. The Fox affiliate in San Diego is XETV ch. 6, might end up being the only major analog TV station remaining after Feb. '09 broadcasting for SoCal. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Digital is happening in Canada, just not at the same time as in the USA. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda It would be interesting to know if the analog TV shutdown is going to occur in CA MX. If not, we might see a number of new analog stations across the border. The Fox affiliate in San Diego is XETV ch. 6, might end up being the only major analog TV station remaining after Feb. '09 broadcasting for SoCal. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Here's lots more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda Digital is happening in Canada, just not at the same time as in the USA. Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
I know a guy on the engineering staff for XETV. Want me to ask him? -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:00:20 PM CST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda It would be interesting to know if the analog TV shutdown is going to occur in CA MX. If not, we might see a number of new analog stations across the border. The Fox affiliate in San Diego is XETV ch. 6, might end up being the only major analog TV station remaining after Feb. '09 broadcasting for SoCal. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
You may be surprised. Mexico is going DTV as well. I just lost a translator allocation in New MExico because it was close spaced to a Juarez DTV station. GeorgeC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be interesting to know if the analog TV shutdown is going to occur in CA MX. If not, we might see a number of new analog stations across the border. The Fox affiliate in San Diego is XETV ch. 6, might end up being the only major analog TV station remaining after Feb. '09 broadcasting for SoCal. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
I can only speak for WIVB and WNLO there, but as far as I know all of the Buffalo stations were alocated UHF digital channels, and all have elected to stay on UHF. The decision to stay UHF, go VHF, etc depended a whole lot on the end result, ERP, propagation, and received interference all get into the equation. In one case my company gave up what was perceived as a great VHF alocation, in favor of UHF, but the VHF was ERP-limited, and was going to receive a pile of interfernce from a co-channel VHF DTV. So, instead, this station now will have 1000 kW ERP on UHF. Yeah, the electric meter spins faster. Many factors to consider, it wasn't easy deciding in some cases... GeorgeC W2DB --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I jumped the gun. The are going to UHF if they are not already there now. I am watching ALL of the Buffalo stations on UHF right now. I realize that the VHF transmitters are still operating. Chuck - Original Message - From: John J. Riddell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda Chuck, No they have not switched to UHFdunno where you got that info? I use an antenna here and still receive all of the VHF stations in Toronto and Buffalo. Erie is a problem for us with a high power channel 13 station in this area so Ch 12 is unwatchable. 73 John VE3AMZ Waterloo Ontario - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda All of the Buffalo, Erie, Toronto and Rochester TV stations have gone to UHF. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Dan Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 6:50 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH mch@ wrote: Has anyone else here seen the bull put out by NTIA on https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx = 1. What is the digital television transition? At midnight on February 17, 2009, all full-power television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting promises to provide a clearer picture and more programming options and will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders. = will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? As there are some broadcast types here, maybe someone can explain the technology used where X analog stations using 6 MHz each will be more efficient by the same number of stations using 6 MHz each. Is this that new math they are using? I would like to apply the same to 2M to get more spectrum out of it. If I take my 16 kHz analog signal and make it 16 kHz digital, will we be able to fit more repeaters in the band? (aside from the fact most will have no users) Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Far as I'm concerned there's no need to jam the airways with mind-numbing content from every hamlet. A few regional advertising supported Ku band satellite channels should suffice. This would free up a LOT of spectrum. 73 de Jack - N7OO - Original Message - From: Ben To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:01 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Look on the FCC web site, link below. Scroll down to: 8/6/07 FCC Announces Final Assignment of Digital Television Channels. Then look at appendix b g to see the final assignments. In the Pittsburgh area chan 13 will revert to 13 and chan 19 (currently sharing chan 8s digital) will change to 11. Chan 8 will revert to 8 in Johnstown. Jim WA3UQD http://www.dtv.gov/inthenews.html It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
In Los Angeles TV stations: CBS moves from 2 to 43 NBC moves from 4 to 36 KTLA moves from 5 to 31 This sholud make the SIX Meter boys, girls happy for a while.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Stations want to identify by their old channel #. They have spent years telling you to tune to Channel 4 or what ever. The computer in your television set reading the digital code from the stations will take the channel 4 information and translate it to the correct UHF channel such as in Tucson Channel 23. This special code is called the PSIP code and contains other information such as program playing and a TV guide for that channel. Also a lot other info. It also tells the set if there is more than one program stream such as 4-2 might be weather, 4-3 traffic cam etc. Current equipment will allow up to 4 std def channels in one Hi Def space. Ralph -- Original message -- From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links ---BeginMessage--- Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links ---End Message---
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Along those lines... If they are broadcasting one HDTV channel, can they have only two other SD channels? The translation doesn't do any good since you need to know the real channel number before you can see their 'alias'. But, as I said - confusion since Channel 2 is transmitting on Channel 25. People will have to know to enter 25 initially to get channel 2. Kinda like taking my 440 repeater and calling it frequency 146.97 Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stations want to identify by their old channel #. They have spent years telling you to tune to Channel 4 or what ever. The computer in your television set reading the digital code from the stations will take the channel 4 information and translate it to the correct UHF channel such as in Tucson Channel 23. This special code is called the PSIP code and contains other information such as program playing and a TV guide for that channel. Also a lot other info. It also tells the set if there is more than one program stream such as 4-2 might be weather, 4-3 traffic cam etc. Current equipment will allow up to 4 std def channels in one Hi Def space. Ralph -- Original message -- From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links --- Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 01:12:02 + From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Nope. The TV will search available channels and do all the work for you. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda Along those lines... If they are broadcasting one HDTV channel, can they have only two other SD channels? The translation doesn't do any good since you need to know the real channel number before you can see their 'alias'. But, as I said - confusion since Channel 2 is transmitting on Channel 25. People will have to know to enter 25 initially to get channel 2. Kinda like taking my 440 repeater and calling it frequency 146.97 Joe M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
Not really...you can have the tuner do a scan of the available channels and then they will show up as the virtual major channel...the same as the associated analog channel...along with the minor channel multicast indicators. Hap Griffin WZ4O - Original Message - From: MCH To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda Along those lines... If they are broadcasting one HDTV channel, can they have only two other SD channels? The translation doesn't do any good since you need to know the real channel number before you can see their 'alias'. But, as I said - confusion since Channel 2 is transmitting on Channel 25. People will have to know to enter 25 initially to get channel 2. Kinda like taking my 440 repeater and calling it frequency 146.97 Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stations want to identify by their old channel #. They have spent years telling you to tune to Channel 4 or what ever. The computer in your television set reading the digital code from the stations will take the channel 4 information and translate it to the correct UHF channel such as in Tucson Channel 23. This special code is called the PSIP code and contains other information such as program playing and a TV guide for that channel. Also a lot other info. It also tells the set if there is more than one program stream such as 4-2 might be weather, 4-3 traffic cam etc. Current equipment will allow up to 4 std def channels in one Hi Def space. Ralph -- Original message -- From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links -- Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 01:12:02 + From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
However, in their infinite wisdom the FCC has made it MANDATORY that stations identify themselves in the PSIP (what you see on your digital tuner) with their ANALOG channel number. I'm Chief Engineer for a network of eleven stations and we have two that have the analog and digital transmitters on different bands...i.e. analog on UHF and digital on VHF. Thus, there is a huge amount of confusion when someone see's digital channel 29 on their tuner, when the actual RF is on channel 9 and they don't have the proper antenna for reliable reception. It's gets even crazier when the analog transmitters are turned off in February 2009...the digital stations will be branding themselves with a channel number that is completely unrelated to reality. Then, believe it or not, it gets EVEN nuttier after a few years and another station wants to come on the air and request your old vacated analog channel. They will have to identify themselves as your actual digital channel number...completely unrelated to their actual digital RF channel. Really smart of the FCC, eh? Hap Griffin WZ4O - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda Stations want to identify by their old channel #. They have spent years telling you to tune to Channel 4 or what ever. The computer in your television set reading the digital code from the stations will take the channel 4 information and translate it to the correct UHF channel such as in Tucson Channel 23. This special code is called the PSIP code and contains other information such as program playing and a TV guide for that channel. Also a lot other info. It also tells the set if there is more than one program stream such as 4-2 might be weather, 4-3 traffic cam etc. Current equipment will allow up to 4 std def channels in one Hi Def space. Ralph -- Original message -- From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
I don't know what is going on where you are but here in florida I hit 2-1 on the remote and get what is on analog 2 but in digital. I hit 2-2 and get the NBC local weather. I don't know what all of the stress is over this. I think digital tv is great and this should have been done a long time ago. My father-in-law refuses to get cable or anything like that so we gave him money towards a new TV a few months ago for his birthday. He went from getting 3 stations that were OK to watch and maybe 8 more that either were things that people don't want to watch or so fuzzy that I would rather have a root canal than try to watch it, to 31 stations and growing that are crystal clear. Top that off with the fact that he loves PBS and now has 5 PBS stations. So no matter what happens to the spectrum the overall result is going to be good for everyone. I personally think that the whole issue of making sure that everyone has time to get new TVs or set top boxes and the possibility of subsidies to help people pay for set top boxes is bogus. No one gave me a free CD player when they stopped making tapes. No one gave out free FM radios when 90% of the content moved off of AM. You can get a SD 13 TV with a digital tuner for $99 and I for one would rather watch that than a 20 fuzzy analog tuner. That is what I put in my daughter's room because I didn't want to pay for another DirecTV box for her room and she is happy with it. Also guess what she is 9 and has no problems working the 2-1 style tuner. Vern On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:47:11 -0500 MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Along those lines... If they are broadcasting one HDTV channel, can they have only two other SD channels? The translation doesn't do any good since you need to know the real channel number before you can see their 'alias'. But, as I said - confusion since Channel 2 is transmitting on Channel 25. People will have to know to enter 25 initially to get channel 2. Kinda like taking my 440 repeater and calling it frequency 146.97 Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stations want to identify by their old channel #. They have spent years telling you to tune to Channel 4 or what ever. The computer in your television set reading the digital code from the stations will take the channel 4 information and translate it to the correct UHF channel such as in Tucson Channel 23. This special code is called the PSIP code and contains other information such as program playing and a TV guide for that channel. Also a lot other info. It also tells the set if there is more than one program stream such as 4-2 might be weather, 4-3 traffic cam etc. Current equipment will allow up to 4 std def channels in one Hi Def space. Ralph -- Original message -- From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links --- Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 01:12:02 + From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
I have talked with the local Ch 12 Engr here they plan to stay on VHF when they go all digital. From what he said, I believe most or all of the local VHF stations plan to go back to their VHF channel. His reasoning was simple, they get much better coverage for the same power level on VHF channels over UHF. To get the same coverage on UHF requires much more power hence more expensive TX equipment, higher electric bill and higher maintenance costs. As far as freeing up spectrum, I think it is just semantics. Right now almost all stations are running two TX on two different frequencies one analog one digital. When they go all digital, the stations all go back to one TX on one frequency so half of the channel frequencies currently in use will be come unused and available. The fact that all those channel frequencies were already allocated for TV use prior to starting the digital conversion just seems to be forgotten in the propaganda. John Lock kf0m at arrl.net -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of MCH Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda There is a DTV allocation in Harrisburg, PA for channel 2. Originally, they were all going to be on UHF, but that changed. Joe M. Dan Hancock wrote: It was my undeerstanding that all digital TV would be on UHF, no VHF and that the VHF spectrum would be re-allocated. Am I in error? Dan N8DJP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else here seen the bull put out by NTIA on https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx = 1. What is the digital television transition? At midnight on February 17, 2009, all full-power television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. Digital broadcasting promises to provide a clearer picture and more programming options and will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders. = will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? As there are some broadcast types here, maybe someone can explain the technology used where X analog stations using 6 MHz each will be more efficient by the same number of stations using 6 MHz each. Is this that new math they are using? I would like to apply the same to 2M to get more spectrum out of it. If I take my 16 kHz analog signal and make it 16 kHz digital, will we be able to fit more repeaters in the band? (aside from the fact most will have no users) Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic (but with on topic questions):NTIA propaganda
The numbering of the digital channels is to help the people that know nothing of TV past turning it on and changing channels. The station that I work for is channel 4. Our digital transmitter is on channel 34, but, the viewers know it is 4-1. That way they do not get lost in the channels. I do not know of any of the sets that display the real digital channel. I guess that some may, if, you really dig into the menus. So for now, the viewers of analog channel 4 know the digital channel as 4-1 and not the real channel of channel 34. As far a new digital channels, all bets are off. You will have to ask the lawyers at the FCC as they no longer have many technical people on staff. They have found it a much more lucrative business of selling commodities that they do not own than helping to further the use of the RF spectrum. Look at the mess that allowed Nextel to get away with. We will see what happens when the analog channel turn off date passes. 73 Glenn WB4UIV At 08:11 PM 01/06/08, you wrote: Many of my local channels are using tags that have the ANALOG channel name. For example, while KDKA TV-2 DTV is on channel 25, the tag is 2-1 which is what you enter to see that channel. Either they are going to move back to channel 2 or things are going to get even more confusing if you have a channel 25 station you have to enter 2-1 when there is no channel 2. What happens when a DTV channel 2 comes along (if that should ever happen)? 4 (I forget their DTV channel) is using 4-1 and 4-2. 11 is using 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3. Joe M. Ben wrote: Here is a good list of what the channels will be like when the analog shuts off: http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html Many are going back to their original VHF channel. Here in Bowling Green, KY it looks like channel 13 will turn off their digital that is on 33 now and stay on the old analog channel 13 as DTV. In Nashville channels 4,5 8 will stay on VHF. If you haven't tried to rx DTV yet it's time you did. I can watch channels now in studio quality that in analog are almost unwatchable by todays standards. HD signals are very nice too! It's easy to pick these channels up with the antenna you have up now and the cost is just going to do down from here. All TV's sold today are required to have DTV tuners. Go to Walmart and look. Several channels in Nashville are running up to 4 or more services on one channel. Here in Bowling Green Channel 40-1 is NBC, 40-2 is CBS, 13-1 is ABC, 13-2 is FOX, 13-3 is UPN(or what ever they call theirselves today), 53-1 to 53-6 are Kentucky Educational Television channels. They run PBS HD on 53-4...so many stations are broadcasting more than one service in that 6 MHz. Ben W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
