Re: [RDD] Questions On Paravel Centos 7 Rivendell Build

[Rich Stivers]

Fred:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll stick with XFCE - didn't realize 
Gnome was a resource hog.


Rich


On 12/7/2018 04:09, Fred Gleason wrote:
On Dec 6, 2018, at 23:29, Rich Stivers > wrote:



At the step for Mount Points -
for /home, 100G is specified. Since I have a 1TB disc, could I 
specify 200G instead? Our sound files reside on a

NAS Raid server so this drive doesn't need extra space in /var/snd.


Yes, you can tweak those sizes to be whatever is optimal for your 
situation. The main point of that installation step is to *not* use 
‘Automatic Partitioning’, which will end up allocating most of your 
space to ‘/home’ and almost none to ‘/var/snd’, which is severely 
non-optimal for a stand-alone Rivendell system.



The resulting desktop is Xfce instead of Gnome. Is Xfce better than 
Gnome? I had no problem with Gnome in Centos 6.
If it's not too much trouble I'd like to bring back Gnome. Would this 
interfere with Rivendell in any way?


It all depends on what you mean by ‘better’. Gnome on CentOS 7 is 
(alas) Gnome 3, which not only is the resource hog of the century but 
also copies every bad feature possible from Windows 8. We ended up 
settling on XFCE because it is fast, lightweight and customizable. 
Remember, this is a tool for keeping your station on the air and 
sounding good, neither more nor less. You really neither need nor want 
a desktop that tries to ‘entertain’ your air staff. A simple program 
launcher generally suffices.


Cheers!


|--|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. |              Chief Developer         |
|                           |              Paravel Systems         |
|--|
| Stult's Report:         |
|       Our problems are mostly behind us.  What we have to do now is  |
| fight the solutions.         |
|--|


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Re: [RDD] RDAirplay vu meter

[Schwoon, newsletter]

In stereotool you can amplify the input very easy... 

Am 07.12.2018 16:53, schrieb Gabriele Fergola:

> Hello, 
> at the moment my test systems are all digital audio linked via Jackd  
> 
> and how audio processor I'm using stereo tool and in the input channel i have 
> -13dB how maximum input level 
> 
> Regards 
> Gabriele 
> 
> Il giorno ven 7 dic 2018 alle ore 14:49 Rob Landry <41001...@interpring.com> 
> ha scritto: 
> 
>> The choice of -13 dB is deliberate; it's 13 dB below absolute maximum (all 
>> ones).
>> 
>> What sound card are you using? Turm up the gain, or use a line amp if you 
>> have to. Rivendell machines running tone at zero on the rdairplay meters 
>> tend to be quite a bit lower than +4 dBm.
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> -- 
>> Я там, где ребята толковые,
>> Я там, где плакаты "Вперёд",
>> Где песни рабочие новые
>> Страна трудовая поёт.
>> 
>> On Fri, 7 Dec 2018, Gabriele Fergola wrote:
>> 
>>> Helloi ahve a stupid question on vu meter in rdairplay.
>>> i normalized tracks at -13 dB and vu meter show me track volume so to 0 but
>>> in audio processor is -13dB.
>>> 
>>> If i normalize tracks at -3dB i see vu metere in rdairplay goes over 0
>>> almost near red zone but in audio processor i see the volume is -3 dB.
>>> 
>>> Is the 0 on vu meter real 0 or is around -13dB?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sorry for the stupid question
>>> 
>>> Gabriele 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
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Re: [RDD] Questions On Paravel Centos 7 Rivendell Build

[Cowboy]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 08:34:15 -0500
Fred Gleason  wrote:

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 07:43, Cowboy  wrote:
> 
> > By default, but it begs the question,
> > gnome-desktop-2.32.0-17.el7.x86_64.rpm
> > appears to be Gnome-2 for RHEL-7 !?
> 
> Apparently. I’m not seeing such a package available in either CentOS 7 Base 
> or EPEL, so I really
> have no way of verifying what exactly it is.

 In EPEL..

 
https://centos.pkgs.org/7/epel-x86_64/gnome-desktop-devel-2.32.0-17.el7.x86_64.rpm.html

-- 
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 And were Loved.

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Re: [RDD] RDAirplay vu meter

[Gabriele Fergola]

Fred,
i'm using jackd to interconnect audio processor and rivendell

Regards
Gabriele

Il giorno ven 7 dic 2018 alle ore 15:04 Fred Gleason <
fr...@paravelsystems.com> ha scritto:

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 08:49, Rob Landry <41001...@interpring.com> wrote:
>
> What sound card are you using? Turm up the gain, or use a line amp if you
> have to. Rivendell machines running tone at zero on the rdairplay meters
> tend to be quite a bit lower than +4 dBm.
>
>
> True for ‘consumer’ (unbalanced) gear. Expect around -10 dBm for a tone at
> ‘0’ level in Rivendell for those.
>
> OTOH, ASI cards with analog outputs will give you +4 dBm at that level
> (unless you've tweaked the gain trim in rdadmin(1).
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> |--|
> | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. |  Chief Developer |
> |   |  Paravel Systems |
> |--|
> |  A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
> | -- Cicero|
> |--|
> ___
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Re: [RDD] RDAirplay vu meter

[Gabriele Fergola]

Hello,
at the moment my test systems are all digital audio linked via Jackd

and how audio processor I'm using stereo tool and in the input channel i
have -13dB how maximum input level

Regards
Gabriele

Il giorno ven 7 dic 2018 alle ore 14:49 Rob Landry <41001...@interpring.com>
ha scritto:

>
> The choice of -13 dB is deliberate; it's 13 dB below absolute maximum (all
> ones).
>
> What sound card are you using? Turm up the gain, or use a line amp if you
> have to. Rivendell machines running tone at zero on the rdairplay meters
> tend to be quite a bit lower than +4 dBm.
>
>
> Rob
>
> --
> Я там, где ребята толковые,
> Я там, где плакаты "Вперёд",
> Где песни рабочие новые
> Страна трудовая поёт.
>
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2018, Gabriele Fergola wrote:
>
> > Helloi ahve a stupid question on vu meter in rdairplay.
> > i normalized tracks at -13 dB and vu meter show me track volume so to 0
> but
> > in audio processor is -13dB.
> >
> > If i normalize tracks at -3dB i see vu metere in rdairplay goes over 0
> > almost near red zone but in audio processor i see the volume is -3 dB.
> >
> > Is the 0 on vu meter real 0 or is around -13dB?
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the stupid question
> >
> > Gabriele
> >
> >
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Re: [RDD] Questions On Paravel Centos 7 Rivendell Build

[David Klann]

Hi Rich,

I have successfully swapped out Xfce for GNOME on several systems I help
maintain (running CentOS 7). Here's how I've done it:

 - sudo yum remove '@Xfce'
 - sudo yum --skip-broken install  '@^GNOME Desktop'

The "@" symbols refer to yum "groups": Xfce is a simple group, GNOME is
an "environment group" (see
https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/40276/whats-the-difference-between-an-environment-group-and-group/
for info about environment groups).

The "--skip-broken" was needed because GNOME wants to install an ALSA
package (maybe alsa-firmware? I forget the details) that conflicts with
the Audio Science "hpklinux" package. Using "--skip-broken" leaves the
hpklinux package installed.

Hope this helps!

  ~David Klann


On 12/6/18 10:29 PM, Rich Stivers wrote:
> I appreciate all the people who responded to my inquiry regarding the
> Dell Optiplex 3060. I decided on this PC.
> 
> While I'm waiting for them to be delivered, I decided to build a Centos
> 7 Rivendell system on an older test computer
> using the Paravel Instructions -
> http://static.paravelsystems.com/rivendell-install/rivendell-install-rhel7.html
> 
> Everything went well but I have a few questions.
> 
> At the step for Mount Points -
> for /home, 100G is specified. Since I have a 1TB disc, could I specify
> 200G instead? Our sound files reside on a
> NAS Raid server so this drive doesn't need extra space in /var/snd.
> 
> The resulting desktop is Xfce instead of Gnome. Is Xfce better than
> Gnome? I had no problem with Gnome in Centos 6.
> If it's not too much trouble I'd like to bring back Gnome. Would this
> interfere with Rivendell in any way?
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 



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Re: [RDD] RDAirplay vu meter

[Fred Gleason]

On Dec 7, 2018, at 08:49, Rob Landry <41001...@interpring.com> wrote:

> What sound card are you using? Turm up the gain, or use a line amp if you 
> have to. Rivendell machines running tone at zero on the rdairplay meters tend 
> to be quite a bit lower than +4 dBm.

True for ‘consumer’ (unbalanced) gear. Expect around -10 dBm for a tone at ‘0’ 
level in Rivendell for those. 

OTOH, ASI cards with analog outputs will give you +4 dBm at that level (unless 
you've tweaked the gain trim in rdadmin(1).

Cheers!


|--|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. |  Chief Developer |
|   |  Paravel Systems |
|--|
|  A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| -- Cicero|
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Re: [RDD] RDAirplay vu meter

[Rob Landry]

The choice of -13 dB is deliberate; it's 13 dB below absolute maximum (all 
ones).


What sound card are you using? Turm up the gain, or use a line amp if you 
have to. Rivendell machines running tone at zero on the rdairplay meters 
tend to be quite a bit lower than +4 dBm.



Rob

--
Я там, где ребята толковые,
Я там, где плакаты "Вперёд",
Где песни рабочие новые
Страна трудовая поёт.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018, Gabriele Fergola wrote:


Helloi ahve a stupid question on vu meter in rdairplay.
i normalized tracks at -13 dB and vu meter show me track volume so to 0 but
in audio processor is -13dB.

If i normalize tracks at -3dB i see vu metere in rdairplay goes over 0
almost near red zone but in audio processor i see the volume is -3 dB.

Is the 0 on vu meter real 0 or is around -13dB?


Sorry for the stupid question

Gabriele 

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Re: [RDD] RDAirplay vu meter

[Gabriele Fergola]

Hello Cowboy,
thanks for your explanation. I don't want clip or be loud i'm asking only
because i see a discrepancy from my previous automation and rivendell.
My previous when vu meter was to 0 also in audio processor was like that
and that's all.

I prefer to don't add amplifier in the chain to not introduce any noise.

 Anyway great explanation thanks again

Regards
Gabriele
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Re: [RDD] Questions On Paravel Centos 7 Rivendell Build

[Cowboy]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 07:09:06 -0500
Fred Gleason  wrote:

> Gnome on CentOS 7 is (alas) Gnome 3,

 By default, but it begs the question,
 gnome-desktop-2.32.0-17.el7.x86_64.rpm
 appears to be Gnome-2 for RHEL-7 !?
 

-- 
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Grief is the Reminder that we Loved.
 And were Loved.

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Re: [RDD] RDAirplay vu meter

[Cowboy]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 12:09:43 +0100
Gabriele Fergola  wrote:

> Is the 0 on vu meter real 0 or is around -13dB?

 Your audio processor is showing you db below digital clip.
 ( clip is a catastrophic system failure )

 Rivendell 0 is showing you the normal, sane operating
 standard adopted many years ago.
 It's actually 10 db higher than the historic standard
 built into analog consoles of my day.

 There's quite a bit in the archives about reference level.

 What's not there, just as FYI...
 In my day, reference level was based on a 400 hertz sign wave
 recorded on tape at a magnetic flux of 100 nano-webers.
 The AC voltage at the head depended on the head physics, and
 on the bias level recorded on the tape.
 Higher bias produces much better fidelity, but subtracts
 directly from dynamic range.

 The following amplifiers were calibrated to produce 0 reference
 level when that standard tape was played.
 Most normal audio had an apparent discrepancy with standard level
 of about four to one, so in order for an an operator striving
 to constantly maintain an average at 0, the amplifiers would need
 about 20 db or so of headroom to avoid clip.
 In analog, clip is annoying, but not catastrophic.
 Still, we're professionals, so please try to act like one !
 Thus, standard level was generally about 20-26 db below the rails.
 The rail being the power supply voltage, and thus the absolute maximum
 instantaneous peak that could ever hope to be achieved, assuming
 the supply didn't sag. 

 Attempting to run above standard to get "loud" is simply unprofessional,
 as well as risky dangerous to fidelity, ( opinion ) and stupid !
 If you want loud, add an amplifier. That's what they do.

-- 
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Grief is the Reminder that we Loved.
 And were Loved.

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Re: [RDD] Questions On Paravel Centos 7 Rivendell Build

[Fred Gleason]

On Dec 6, 2018, at 23:29, Rich Stivers  wrote:

> At the step for Mount Points -
> for /home, 100G is specified. Since I have a 1TB disc, could I specify 200G 
> instead? Our sound files reside on a
> NAS Raid server so this drive doesn't need extra space in /var/snd.

Yes, you can tweak those sizes to be whatever is optimal for your situation. 
The main point of that installation step is to *not* use ‘Automatic 
Partitioning’, which will end up allocating most of your space to ‘/home’ and 
almost none to ‘/var/snd’, which is severely non-optimal for a stand-alone 
Rivendell system.


> The resulting desktop is Xfce instead of Gnome. Is Xfce better than Gnome? I 
> had no problem with Gnome in Centos 6.
> If it's not too much trouble I'd like to bring back Gnome. Would this 
> interfere with Rivendell in any way?

It all depends on what you mean by ‘better’. Gnome on CentOS 7 is (alas) Gnome 
3, which not only is the resource hog of the century but also copies every bad 
feature possible from Windows 8. We ended up settling on XFCE because it is 
fast, lightweight and customizable. Remember, this is a tool for keeping your 
station on the air and sounding good, neither more nor less. You really neither 
need nor want a desktop that tries to ‘entertain’ your air staff. A simple 
program launcher generally suffices.

Cheers!


|--|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. |  Chief Developer |
|   |  Paravel Systems |
|--|
| Stult's Report:  |
|   Our problems are mostly behind us.  What we have to do now is  |
| fight the solutions. |
|--|

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[RDD] RDAirplay vu meter

[Gabriele Fergola]

Hello
i ahve a stupid question on vu meter in rdairplay.
i normalized tracks at -13 dB and vu meter show me track volume so to 0 but
in audio processor is -13dB.

If i normalize tracks at -3dB i see vu metere in rdairplay goes over 0
almost near red zone but in audio processor i see the volume is -3 dB.

Is the 0 on vu meter real 0 or is around -13dB?


Sorry for the stupid question

Gabriele
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Re: [RDD] Dropboxes segue marker

[Schwoon, newsletter]

Hmm, ok. That shouldn't be a problem to fix... What do you mean, Fred..?


Am 07.12.2018 10:59, schrieb Gabriele Fergola:

> After some more digging into the code i found : 
> 
> lib/rdimport_audio: 
> 
> import_normalize_spin->setValue(settings->normalizationLevel()/100); 
> import_autotrim_spin->setValue(settings->autotrimLevel()/100); 
> import_channels_box->insertItem("1"); 
> import_channels_box->insertItem("2"); 
> import_channels_box->setCurrentItem(settings->channels()-1); 
> 
> is missing /100 for segue mark 
> 
> Regards 
> Gabriele 
> 
> Il giorno ven 7 dic 2018 alle ore 10:31 Gabriele Fergola  
> ha scritto: 
> 
> Hello 
> After some try i found the problem. 
> When dropboxes run rdimport is lunched with wrong parameter 
> 
> rdimport --persistent-dropbox-id=1 --drop-box --log-mode 
> --add-scheduler-code=10s --normalization-level=-3 --autotrim-level=-30 
> --segue-level=-1000 --segue-length=0 --metadata-pattern=%a-%u-%u- %t.mp3 
> --fix-broken-formats --delete-source --startdate-offset=0 --enddate-offset=0 
> 
> When rdcatchd fork rdimport process for dropboxes don't remove 00 from the 
> value stored in db what happens for trim value so Segue level insted of -10 
> is -1000. 
> For the moment the only way to fix it is to lunch rdimport manually with 
> correct parameter. 
> 
> I tryed to give a quick look in the code but i cannot find where the doubble 
> 0 is removed. 
> 
> Ps sorry for my bad english 
> 
> Regards 
> Gabriele 
> 
> Il giorno ven 30 nov 2018 alle ore 19:02 Gabriele Fergola  
> ha scritto: 
> 
> DAVID:  
> yeah i normally make my mark manually but now i'm starting from zero with 
> rivendell and i would like to import as much as possible automatically all my 
> music. 
> 
> FRED:  
> Thanks for your answer. 
> 
> I saw that and i have the same problem as _Schwoon. _The problem comes from 
> the gui because also for me if i'm using it from shell like_ "__rdmarkerset 
> --group=New --auto-segue=-10 --verbose" _everything is working as expected 
> but if i let rd import automatically with the setting in dropboxes, the start 
> segue mark is after the end segue mark (EX. segue start 3:57.8 - segue end is 
> 3:41.6). I think there is a problem with the gui. 
> 
> And also from shell is no need to set segue lenght. 
> 
> Il giorno ven 30 nov 2018 alle ore 16:08 David Henderson 
>  ha scritto: 
> 
> You usually need to manually set your segue marker. 
> -
> 
> FROM: rivendell-dev-boun...@lists.rivendellaudio.org 
>  on behalf of Gabriele 
> Fergola 
> SENT: Friday, November 30, 2018 2:50:13 PM
> TO: rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> SUBJECT: [RDD] Dropboxes segue marker 
> 
> Hello, 
> i'm new about Rivendell and i'm trying to import all my song library but i 
> have a strange problem with segue marker. 
> 
> When i set it to -10dB and some value from 0 to 3000 nothing changing. The 
> marker are always at same position and are inverted like start is after end. 
> What i'm doing wrong? 
> 
> i have also normalization (-13dB) and Trim (-30dB) active. 
> 
> Regards 
> Gabriele

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Re: [RDD] Questions On Paravel Centos 7 Rivendell Build

[Gabriele Fergola]

Hello Rich,
fro my point of view u will not have problem to increase size of your
partitions also because u can mount /var/snd from nas/san so u don't need
space for /var/snd.

For gnome u can try also because from the manager u can always decide which
desktop run and if u find any trouble with gnome u can use xfce.

But anyway wait some other answer.

Regards
Gabriele
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Re: [RDD] Dropboxes segue marker

[Gabriele Fergola]

After some more digging into the code i found :

lib/rdimport_audio:
  import_normalize_spin->setValue(settings->normalizationLevel()/100);
  import_autotrim_spin->setValue(settings->autotrimLevel()/100);
  import_channels_box->insertItem("1");
  import_channels_box->insertItem("2");
  import_channels_box->setCurrentItem(settings->channels()-1);

is missing /100 for segue mark

Regards
Gabriele

Il giorno ven 7 dic 2018 alle ore 10:31 Gabriele Fergola 
ha scritto:

> Hello
> After some try i found the problem.
> When dropboxes run rdimport is lunched with wrong parameter
>
> rdimport --persistent-dropbox-id=1 --drop-box --log-mode
> --add-scheduler-code=10s --normalization-level=-3 --autotrim-level=-30
> --segue-level=-1000 --segue-length=0 --metadata-pattern=%a-%u-%u- %t.mp3
> --fix-broken-formats --delete-source --startdate-offset=0
> --enddate-offset=0
>
> When rdcatchd fork rdimport process for dropboxes don't remove 00 from the
> value stored in db what happens for trim value so Segue level insted of -10
> is -1000.
> For the moment the only way to fix it is to lunch rdimport manually with
> correct parameter.
>
> I tryed to give a quick look in the code but i cannot find where the
> doubble 0 is removed.
>
> Ps sorry for my bad english
>
> Regards
> Gabriele
>
> Il giorno ven 30 nov 2018 alle ore 19:02 Gabriele Fergola <
> work...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> *David: *
>> yeah i normally make my mark manually but now i'm starting from zero with
>> rivendell and i would like to import as much as possible automatically all
>> my music.
>>
>> *Fred: *
>> Thanks for your answer.
>>
>> I saw that and i have the same problem as *Schwoon. *The problem comes
>> from the gui because also for me if i'm using it from shell like* 
>> "**rdmarkerset
>> --group=New --auto-segue=-10 --verbose" *everything is working as
>> expected but if i let rd import automatically with the setting in
>> dropboxes, the start segue mark is after the end segue mark (EX. segue
>> start 3:57.8 - segue end is 3:41.6). I think there is a problem with the
>> gui.
>>
>> And also from shell is no need to set segue lenght.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno ven 30 nov 2018 alle ore 16:08 David Henderson <
>> david.melr...@outlook.com> ha scritto:
>>
>>> You usually need to manually set your segue marker.
>>> --
>>> *From:* rivendell-dev-boun...@lists.rivendellaudio.org <
>>> rivendell-dev-boun...@lists.rivendellaudio.org> on behalf of Gabriele
>>> Fergola 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2018 2:50:13 PM
>>> *To:* rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
>>> *Subject:* [RDD] Dropboxes segue marker
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> i'm new about Rivendell and i'm trying to import all my song library but
>>> i have a strange problem with segue marker.
>>>
>>> When i set it to -10dB and some value from 0 to 3000 nothing changing.
>>> The marker are always at same position and are inverted like start is after
>>> end. What i'm doing wrong?
>>>
>>> i have also normalization (-13dB) and Trim (-30dB) active.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Gabriele
>>>
>>
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Re: [RDD] Dropboxes segue marker

[Gabriele Fergola]

Hello
After some try i found the problem.
When dropboxes run rdimport is lunched with wrong parameter

rdimport --persistent-dropbox-id=1 --drop-box --log-mode
--add-scheduler-code=10s --normalization-level=-3 --autotrim-level=-30
--segue-level=-1000 --segue-length=0 --metadata-pattern=%a-%u-%u- %t.mp3
--fix-broken-formats --delete-source --startdate-offset=0
--enddate-offset=0

When rdcatchd fork rdimport process for dropboxes don't remove 00 from the
value stored in db what happens for trim value so Segue level insted of -10
is -1000.
For the moment the only way to fix it is to lunch rdimport manually with
correct parameter.

I tryed to give a quick look in the code but i cannot find where the
doubble 0 is removed.

Ps sorry for my bad english

Regards
Gabriele

Il giorno ven 30 nov 2018 alle ore 19:02 Gabriele Fergola 
ha scritto:

> *David: *
> yeah i normally make my mark manually but now i'm starting from zero with
> rivendell and i would like to import as much as possible automatically all
> my music.
>
> *Fred: *
> Thanks for your answer.
>
> I saw that and i have the same problem as *Schwoon. *The problem comes
> from the gui because also for me if i'm using it from shell like* 
> "**rdmarkerset
> --group=New --auto-segue=-10 --verbose" *everything is working as
> expected but if i let rd import automatically with the setting in
> dropboxes, the start segue mark is after the end segue mark (EX. segue
> start 3:57.8 - segue end is 3:41.6). I think there is a problem with the
> gui.
>
> And also from shell is no need to set segue lenght.
>
>
>
>
> Il giorno ven 30 nov 2018 alle ore 16:08 David Henderson <
> david.melr...@outlook.com> ha scritto:
>
>> You usually need to manually set your segue marker.
>> --
>> *From:* rivendell-dev-boun...@lists.rivendellaudio.org <
>> rivendell-dev-boun...@lists.rivendellaudio.org> on behalf of Gabriele
>> Fergola 
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2018 2:50:13 PM
>> *To:* rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
>> *Subject:* [RDD] Dropboxes segue marker
>>
>> Hello,
>> i'm new about Rivendell and i'm trying to import all my song library but
>> i have a strange problem with segue marker.
>>
>> When i set it to -10dB and some value from 0 to 3000 nothing changing.
>> The marker are always at same position and are inverted like start is after
>> end. What i'm doing wrong?
>>
>> i have also normalization (-13dB) and Trim (-30dB) active.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Gabriele
>>
>
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