Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX
Hi Aaron, no, this is not yet forgotten, we're just stuck... On Thursday 23 October 2014 15:26:28 meik michalke wrote: now, this is a portion from man launchctl: man Note that per-user configuration files (LaunchAgents) must be owned by the user loading them. All system-wide daemons (LaunchDaemons) must be owned by root. Configuration files must not be group- or world-writable. /man [...] on the other hand, i find it hard to believe that a system-wide config file is supposed to be owned by one ordinary user and all other users can't launch it. can you make sense of this? after all, wrong permissions could be the actual problem here. I don't believe this is the problem, here. It's the same situation on the build mac, either way. Another bit from the man page is this: -w Overrides the Disabled key and sets it to false. In previous versions, this option would modify the configuration file. Now the state of the Disabled key is stored elsewhere on-disk. Now, thank you, Apple for being so specific, on just where that would be stored. But either way, I guess that could be a historical explanation for the note on file ownership, too. Either way, perhaps our new angle at this problem should be: Step 1: Find out, how we can _stop_ whatever thing is going wild trying to launch dbus. Step 2: Find out, if that actually has any negative side-effects. Step 3: Find out, where it came from. So for step 1., could you try: sudo launchctl unload -w /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus- system.plist launchctl unload -w /Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plist (sudo) killall dbus-daemon ps a | grep dbus # and kill anything still around. launchctl -l # look for any signs of dbus launchers left After that, - check the logs - try starting RKWard. (And well, you may want to try on a machine that is not mission critical, first). Regards Thomas signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7. Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month. Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications. Take corrective actions from your mobile device. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154624111iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX (Aaron Batty)
Thanks for keeping at it! Welcome, by the way, to trying to get something UNIXy done on the Mac. The documentation is always incomplete, if not entirely wrong. Apple spent 2006 and 2007 crowing about how OS X was certified UNIX, and then from 10.7 on have been just changing and making things up left and right and not telling anyone. however, it might be interesting to have a look on the affected systems , e.g. ls -ld ~/Library/Preferences/KDE: snip drwxr-xr-x 6 meik staff204 29 Nov 2011 KDE /snip what do you see? Same as you, basically: drwxr-xr-x 12 abatty staff 408 Sep 18 2013 does sudo chown -R $USER ~/Library/Preferences/KDE make the messages go away? Nope. Unfortunately, it just keeps steaming along with those errors every 10 seconds. -- ___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX
hi aaron, Am Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014, 09:59:22 schrieb Aaron Batty: I also had a chance to check on a student's Mac on Friday. It has only ever had one installation of RKWard. The behavior was there as well, so it's not linked to multiple installs. ok, so we can rule that one out. for the record, i don't see these errors on the mac i build the packages on: i called tail -f /private/var/log/system.log and launched RKWard. every 10 seconds, i get a bunch of messages in endless loop, but they are not related to dbus but OSXvnc-server/VineServer. here some observations i made during the last round of builds -- after its installation, the dbus port states: snip # Startup items have been generated that will aid in # starting dbus with launchd. They are disabled # by default. Execute the following commands to start them, # and to cause them to launch at startup: # # sudo launchctl load -w /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus- system.plist # launchctl load -w /Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plist /snip in our bundle both is done, the system bus is launched by the postinstall script, the session bus by the application itself. after the RKWard build, i was told this: snip Don't forget that dbus needs to be started as the local user (not with sudo) before any KDE programs will launch. To start it run the following command: launchctl load -w /Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plist /snip from this we can assume that the session bus is not to be started as root, so the instructions on https://community.kde.org/Mac are outdated (and we're doing it right). now, this is a portion from man launchctl: man Note that per-user configuration files (LaunchAgents) must be owned by the user loading them. All system-wide daemons (LaunchDaemons) must be owned by root. Configuration files must not be group- or world-writable. /man hm, the way i understand this, the file org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist must then be owned by root, and the file org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plist must be owned by the user loading them. on the build mac it's: snip -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 459 20 Okt 10:25 /opt/rkward/Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 734 20 Okt 10:25 /opt/rkward/Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plist /snip i.e., both files are owned by root and group wheel. my user is not a member of that group, so judging from the man page this shouldn't even work, should it? on the other hand, i find it hard to believe that a system-wide config file is supposed to be owned by one ordinary user and all other users can't launch it. can you make sense of this? after all, wrong permissions could be the actual problem here. one other possibility might be ~/Library/Preferences/KDE. according to https://community.kde.org/Mac it must be owned by the user, allthough i was under the impression that this is automatically the case when it is constructed by the first app. however, it might be interesting to have a look on the affected systems , e.g. ls -ld ~/Library/Preferences/KDE: snip drwxr-xr-x 6 meik staff204 29 Nov 2011 KDE /snip what do you see? does sudo chown -R $USER ~/Library/Preferences/KDE make the messages go away? viele grüße :: m.eik -- dipl. psych. meik michalke institut fur experimentelle psychologie abt. fur diagnostik und differentielle psychologie heinrich-heine-universitat d-40204 dusseldorf signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX
I just realized that I said that I noticed these errors in March 2013; I meant March 2014. Sorry; Japan's fiscal/academic/everything year is April-March, and as a result, I always think of years starting in April. Last March, therefore, feels like 2013 because that's the budget/academic year it was included in! I also had a chance to check on a student's Mac on Friday. It has only ever had one installation of RKWard. The behavior was there as well, so it's not linked to multiple installs. Thanks! -- Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7. Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month. Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications. Take corrective actions from your mobile device. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX
Hi, On Thursday 16 October 2014 10:25:50 Aaron Batty wrote: Hey guys, I've been meaning to let you know about this for months, but I kept forgetting. On OSX, there is a problem launching what I'm pretty sure is a part of KDE. These two messages loop all day every day in the log forever on all of my Macs with RKWard on them. Meik was the one to troubleshoot this back then, so he may be able to comment, better. Anyway, some first diagnostics, and questions: 1. Totally ignorant question: Where would I find those logs? 2. Question: Only while RKWard is running, or all the time? 3. /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist really just fires up /opt/rkward/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork 4. Trying to run that, as a regular user, manually gives: Failed to start message bus: Failed to bind socket /opt/rkward/var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: Permission denied 5. The directory in question is owned by user messagebus, so surely this won't work. 6. Checking ps ax | grep dbus reveals that a dbus-daemon is running, though, with user messagebus. I _guess_ this was started by sudo launchctl -w /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist Question: Did you run this, or a similar command on the Macs where RKWard is installed? Our troubleshooting instructions mention that this _might_ be needed, but no idea, whether that is the normal case. Question: Do you see a dbus-daemon process in your process list? 7. On startup, RKWard itself calls launchclt -w /opt/rkward/Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus- session.plist 8. I suppose this connects to the system dbus-daemon. Well, in essence, this looks to me like something is trying to load /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist as a regular user. This tries starting up the daemon, fails, tries again... The daemon is probably already running with the correct permissions, and this is why everything is still working. Perhaps checking launchctl list reveals anything helpful? Regards Thomas signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7. Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month. Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications. Take corrective actions from your mobile device. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX
hi, Am Donnerstag, 16. Oktober 2014, 11:30:26 schrieb Thomas Friedrichsmeier: 3. /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist really just fires up /opt/rkward/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork 4. Trying to run that, as a regular user, manually gives: Failed to start message bus: Failed to bind socket /opt/rkward/var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: Permission denied 5. The directory in question is owned by user messagebus, so surely this won't work. this is the *system* bus which is supposed to be started by calling sudo launchctl load -w /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus- system.plist *once* after KDE was installed. 6. Checking ps ax | grep dbus reveals that a dbus-daemon is running, though, with user messagebus. I _guess_ this was started by sudo launchctl -w /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist yes. so far, so good. Question: Did you run this, or a similar command on the Macs where RKWard is installed? Our troubleshooting instructions mention that this _might_ be needed, but no idea, whether that is the normal case. usually, this should already be handled by the postinstall scripts in the bundle. Question: Do you see a dbus-daemon process in your process list? 7. On startup, RKWard itself calls launchclt -w /opt/rkward/Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus- session.plist 8. I suppose this connects to the system dbus-daemon. yes, this is the *session* bus. according to https://community.kde.org/Mac it should also be launched with sudo... but that portion hasn't changed in 2 years, so let's assume this is not the reason. @aaron: did you already see this happening before september 2014? if not: @thomas: can this be related to one of these commits: - 4802 - 4803 - 4822 - 4834 Well, in essence, this looks to me like something is trying to load /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist as a regular user. This tries starting up the daemon, fails, tries again... another idea: is it possible that installing the RKWard bundle several times (upgrades) and therefore running the postinstall script several time somehow messes this up? i still don't have the best understanding of how these mac bundle packages actually work, as apple used so many different formats and the documentation is... sparse. viele grüße :: m.eik -- dipl. psych. meik michalke institut fur experimentelle psychologie abt. fur diagnostik und differentielle psychologie heinrich-heine-universitat d-40204 dusseldorf signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7. Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month. Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications. Take corrective actions from your mobile device. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX
1. Totally ignorant question: Where would I find those logs? To see them in realtime, start up Console.app, which I believe is in the /Applications/Utilities folder by default. The actual file is at /private/var/log/system.log 2. Question: Only while RKWard is running, or all the time? All the time. Question: Did you run this, or a similar command on the Macs where RKWard is installed? Our troubleshooting instructions mention that this _might_ be needed, but no idea, whether that is the normal case. Nope. I've been using the packaged installer ever since you guys rolled it up. And this is on all 3 of my Macs. I haven't done any Terminal work since the old days when we were installing with MacPorts. Question: Do you see a dbus-daemon process in your process list? Yup. Running as my user. Perhaps checking launchctl list reveals anything helpful? I don't really know enough about what's going on with KDE to know what's helpful or not, but here are the things I see that are clearly KDE/RKWard-related (I shut RKWard down before running this): . . . 27528-0x7f987b2404a0.anonymous.klauncher 27526-0x7f9879e069e0.anonymous.kdeinit4 . . . 27522-org.freedesktop.dbus-session Again, everything seems to work fine; it just tries and fails to run that every 10 seconds. -- Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7. Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month. Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications. Take corrective actions from your mobile device. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX
Hi Meik and Aaron, On Thursday 16 October 2014 12:14:43 meik michalke wrote: @aaron: did you already see this happening before september 2014? if not: @thomas: can this be related to one of these commits: - 4802 - 4803 - 4822 - 4834 an obvious guess. However, I don't see, how this would be the case. If you look at rkward_startup.cpp, you should find it simply mimicks, what we had, before. In particular it tried to launch org.freedesktop.dbus-session.plit, but not dbus-system.plist. Well, in essence, this looks to me like something is trying to load /Library/LaunchDaemons/org.freedesktop.dbus-system.plist as a regular user. This tries starting up the daemon, fails, tries again... another idea: is it possible that installing the RKWard bundle several times (upgrades) and therefore running the postinstall script several time somehow messes this up? i still don't have the best understanding of how these mac bundle packages actually work, as apple used so many different formats and the documentation is... sparse. Something causing this to be called twice is another idea, in fact. On your university mac, the error message is a bit more verbose: Oct 16 11:08:10 RKWard-iMac org.freedesktop.dbus-system[78533]: Failed to start message bus: Failed to bind socket /opt/rkward/var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: Address already in use Oct 16 11:08:10 RKWard-iMac com.apple.launchd.peruser.505[78521] (org.freedesktop.dbus-system[78533]): Exited with code: 1 Oct 16 11:08:10 RKWard-iMac com.apple.launchd.peruser.505[78521] (org.freedesktop.dbus-system): Throttling respawn: Will start in 10 seconds So dbus-daemon --system is already running, but the launcher is trying to start it again, fails, and tries again... Interestingly, on the university mac, the error message starts appearing today at 11:08:10. That's shortly, after I started playing with it. Looking at the process list, you can see that the current dbus-daemon stared at 10:49. That process came up automatically, when I tried killing the previous dbus-daemon process. Well, I tried a whole bunch of other things in between, but can't attach a timestamp to those. One thing to check may be what happens after a reboot. Does the message start appearing right away, or only after doing something KDE-related? Regards Thomas signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7. Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month. Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications. Take corrective actions from your mobile device. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
Re: [rkward-devel] Endless errors starting up org.freedesktop.dbus-system on OSX
Hi guys; thanks for the attention to this. Question: Do you see a dbus-daemon process in your process list? 7. On startup, RKWard itself calls launchclt -w /opt/rkward/Library/LaunchAgents/org.freedesktop.dbus- session.plist 8. I suppose this connects to the system dbus-daemon. yes, this is the *session* bus. according to https://community.kde.org/Mac it should also be launched with sudo... but that portion hasn't changed in 2 years, so let's assume this is not the reason. Hmmm... I really wouldn't necessarily assume that. I don't get into the Console/logs very often. The only reason I found it was that in March I had to build an OSX web server and was testing bundles out on my home computer. It's entirely possible this has been there for 2 years. @aaron: did you already see this happening before september 2014? Yeah, I think I found it in March 2013, but kept forgetting to let you guys know. another idea: is it possible that installing the RKWard bundle several times (upgrades) and therefore running the postinstall script several time somehow messes this up? That is a definite possibility, since all three of these Macs have had several versions of RKWard at this point. I'll be with my stats class here in a few hours; maybe I'll grab a Mac-using student (most of them anymore) and take a look at their console. One thing to check may be what happens after a reboot. Does the message start appearing right away, or only after doing something KDE-related? Happens immediately after reboot. Yoroshiku! -- Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7. Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month. Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications. Take corrective actions from your mobile device. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho___ RKWard-devel mailing list RKWard-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rkward-devel
