Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future

[Brett McCoy]

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Chris Cannam
 wrote:
> On 13 May 2012 23:56, Cláudio Pinheiro  wrote:
>> Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can generate a
>> critical mass that would attract developers that would maintain a sustained
>> growth and (even) better codebase and documentation. To achieve it
>> Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform path. It must be the top priority now
>> for the future's greater good.
>
> I appreciate this argument, and thank you for articulating it well.
> But I'm afraid I just don't see the evidence in other applications
> that broadening your user base, by porting to other platforms with a
> smaller proportion of developers, helps a great deal with development
> effort.

One thing I have noticed in the development of digital painting
applications like MyPaint and Krita (two other of my favorite Linux
apps, along with Rosegarden & Ardour!), is that if you create Windows
versions of applications originally developed on Linux, you have to do
a lot of hand holding for those users to either help them compile
stuff, or be prepared for loud complaining because the Windows support
isn't as good as the Linux support (especially for development
branches). Windows users especially don't quite seem to get the open
source development model (all they see if "free software that I don't
have to pirate!"). Unless there are dedicated Windows developers to a
project, Windows support will flounder until someone gets around to
fixing bugs or building a new version (funny how the users who
complain the most don't seem to want to volunteer their time to help).
Unfortunately, I think this gives some Windows users the impression
that the Linux developers are snobby, unhelpful and arrogant.

BTW, I was happy to see the new Rosegarden announced in the latest KVR
newsletter today!

-- 
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com

"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
    -- Jelaleddin Rumi

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future

[Chris Cannam]

On 13 May 2012 23:56, Cláudio Pinheiro  wrote:
> Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can generate a
> critical mass that would attract developers that would maintain a sustained
> growth and (even) better codebase and documentation. To achieve it
> Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform path. It must be the top priority now
> for the future's greater good.

I appreciate this argument, and thank you for articulating it well.
But I'm afraid I just don't see the evidence in other applications
that broadening your user base, by porting to other platforms with a
smaller proportion of developers, helps a great deal with development
effort.

I think that the difference between Mixxx and Rosegarden is something
else. It's focus. Mixxx has a very clear purpose, every developer has
pretty much the same focus, and every developer is able to exercise
that purpose very clearly in testing the application. So although
Mixxx has about the same number of active developers as Rosegarden,
they're able to pull it along more efficiently because it's a simpler
and smaller application with a much clearer goal.

Compare this with Audacity, perhaps the world's most widely-used audio
application -- inching along much like Rosegarden does, with a
similarly-sized developer team who spend most of their time
integrating occasional external contributions and trying to fix the
bugs those contributions bring in. Their wider user base gives them a
lot more tricky single-platform bug reports and causes years of delays
to stable releases. Or the Gimp, spending the last four years on a
bunch of changes finally released to a collective response of "is that
_it_ for the last four years?" (and I'm sympathetic, but it's true
that almost every change in Gimp 2.8 seems to make my life more
difficult instead of easier). Or Ardour, a fine application perhaps
unique among these in having had a developer working full time on it
for many years, but again with only two or three really active
developers and not an enormous amount of visibility. No, most of the
cross-platform projects are more like Rosegarden than like Mixxx.


Chris

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Fwd: [Rosegarden-devel] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

Perhaps I need to move this information to the developers list. I got this
reply from a guy on one of the Apple developer lists.

"I had a brief go at rosegarden with other packages installed using fink
(fink needs the --prefix=/sw) on Mac OS X 10.6.8. However, I found issues
with configure tests for X11, dssi.h and sha1sum. Make finally failed
because i had no alsa installed and there was no quick resolution for that.

(He had all the compile errors in here which I will leave out of this post)

Unfortunately, I do not really have the skills/time to dig deeper into all
these issues, but maybe someone can pick it up. Once rosegarden builds on
macosx, i could contribute and maintain a package discription for fink."

He seems interested in moving forward. with help from others.

Dave


On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:04 AM, David Tisdell wrote:

> I have posted requests for Mac developers to 3 Apple lists:
> *Coreaudio-api* A 
> mailing list for developers using Core Audio and MIDI APIs (C or Java) on
> MacOS X
> *Unix-porting* 
> Discussions about 
> porting UNIX-based software to Mac OS X
> *X11-users*  X11 for
> Mac OS X discussion list
>
> We'll see if we garner any interest. I'll also see if I can find out who
> tried to do the port in the fink project before the change to the qt
> codebase and see if he is interested.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:04 AM, David Tisdell wrote:
>
>> Claudio,
>>
>> I can't guarantee anything on recruiting developers but I can put it out
>> there on Apple developer lists. I am not a developer myself but I can
>> test some builds. I have all three platforms running at home (Linux, Mac
>> and Windows). I have installed the Windows alpha and it is very
>> promising (Thanks Richard).
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On 5/13/12 6:56 PM, Cláudio Pinheiro wrote:
>> > I'm interested in a Mac port, and I may help with coding.
>> > Most of my coding experience involves portable code between Linux,
>> > Windows, ARM and microcontrollers, and I develop for Mac as a hobby.
>> > Having said that, I believe the biggest problem I see today in
>> > Rosegarden is the following mentality:
>> > "I'm a Linux user and I want a tool to help me making music on
>> > Linux.". So Rosegarden is chosen because it's the most comprehensive
>> > DAW for the Linux platform, making the choice to use it subordinated
>> > to the choice of which operating system one wants to use. As the
>> > Linux-using musicians demographics is a tiny one is somewhat natural
>> > to expect that Rosegarden's visibility is minimal. And as Linux-using
>> > musicians programmers with free time and interest are even rarer,
>> > things pile up on the TODO queue (111 open bugs and 144 open feature
>> > requests).
>> > Let's take the opposite example: Mixxx. Multiplatform, Qt-based,
>> > low-latency DJ mixing program, runs on Linux, Windows and Mac OS X,
>> > GPL-licensed, free in App Store, has 800+ reviews (4.5 stars) and a
>> > thriving community.
>> > What's the main difference between Mixxx and Rosegarden as end-user
>> > products? When somebody wants to go into DJ'ing he/she can choose
>> > Mixxx to do the job as a (better) alternative to the commercial ones.
>> > When somebody wants to write music with a DAW he/she'll try to use a
>> > program that fulfills its needs. If he/she uses Linux Rosegarden is a
>> > choice. Had Rosegarden be multiplatform, the mentality would be "I
>> > want a tool to help me making music" instead of "I'm a Linux user and
>> > I want a tool to help me making music on Linux.". When we remove the
>> > platform from the equation we broaden Rosegarden's target audience
>> > tenfold? Thirtyfold? If we were able to have iOS and Android ports, oh
>> my.
>> > Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can
>> > generate a critical mass that would attract developers that would
>> > maintain a sustained growth and (even) better codebase and
>> > documentation. To achieve it Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform
>> > path. It must be the top priority now for the future's greater good.
>> > With this in mind, somebody said that would be able to recruit coders
>> > to work on a Mac port, please do so and ask them to do it in a
>> > multiplatform way. Somebody said that could help with the homepage.
>> > Please step up and do something "seksy", atractive. Let's have
>> > commitment. Let's make Rosegarden reach what no other DAW I'm aware of
>> > has reached and Mixxx, LibreOffice and others had reached in their
>> > respective niches. We have lots of success examples all around us, so
>> > it's time to act upon.
>> >
>> > On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Ian Gardner > > > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > For what it's worth, I think it's evident that the test framework
>> > > Rosegarden "should" be using is the Qt 

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Fwd: [Rosegarden-devel] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

I have posted requests for Mac developers to 3 Apple lists:
*Coreaudio-api*  A
mailing list for developers using Core Audio and MIDI APIs (C or Java) on
MacOS X
*Unix-porting* 
Discussions
about porting UNIX-based software to Mac OS X
*X11-users*  X11 for
Mac OS X discussion list

We'll see if we garner any interest. I'll also see if I can find out who
tried to do the port in the fink project before the change to the qt
codebase and see if he is interested.

Dave

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:04 AM, David Tisdell wrote:

> Claudio,
>
> I can't guarantee anything on recruiting developers but I can put it out
> there on Apple developer lists. I am not a developer myself but I can
> test some builds. I have all three platforms running at home (Linux, Mac
> and Windows). I have installed the Windows alpha and it is very
> promising (Thanks Richard).
>
> Dave
>
> On 5/13/12 6:56 PM, Cláudio Pinheiro wrote:
> > I'm interested in a Mac port, and I may help with coding.
> > Most of my coding experience involves portable code between Linux,
> > Windows, ARM and microcontrollers, and I develop for Mac as a hobby.
> > Having said that, I believe the biggest problem I see today in
> > Rosegarden is the following mentality:
> > "I'm a Linux user and I want a tool to help me making music on
> > Linux.". So Rosegarden is chosen because it's the most comprehensive
> > DAW for the Linux platform, making the choice to use it subordinated
> > to the choice of which operating system one wants to use. As the
> > Linux-using musicians demographics is a tiny one is somewhat natural
> > to expect that Rosegarden's visibility is minimal. And as Linux-using
> > musicians programmers with free time and interest are even rarer,
> > things pile up on the TODO queue (111 open bugs and 144 open feature
> > requests).
> > Let's take the opposite example: Mixxx. Multiplatform, Qt-based,
> > low-latency DJ mixing program, runs on Linux, Windows and Mac OS X,
> > GPL-licensed, free in App Store, has 800+ reviews (4.5 stars) and a
> > thriving community.
> > What's the main difference between Mixxx and Rosegarden as end-user
> > products? When somebody wants to go into DJ'ing he/she can choose
> > Mixxx to do the job as a (better) alternative to the commercial ones.
> > When somebody wants to write music with a DAW he/she'll try to use a
> > program that fulfills its needs. If he/she uses Linux Rosegarden is a
> > choice. Had Rosegarden be multiplatform, the mentality would be "I
> > want a tool to help me making music" instead of "I'm a Linux user and
> > I want a tool to help me making music on Linux.". When we remove the
> > platform from the equation we broaden Rosegarden's target audience
> > tenfold? Thirtyfold? If we were able to have iOS and Android ports, oh
> my.
> > Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can
> > generate a critical mass that would attract developers that would
> > maintain a sustained growth and (even) better codebase and
> > documentation. To achieve it Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform
> > path. It must be the top priority now for the future's greater good.
> > With this in mind, somebody said that would be able to recruit coders
> > to work on a Mac port, please do so and ask them to do it in a
> > multiplatform way. Somebody said that could help with the homepage.
> > Please step up and do something "seksy", atractive. Let's have
> > commitment. Let's make Rosegarden reach what no other DAW I'm aware of
> > has reached and Mixxx, LibreOffice and others had reached in their
> > respective niches. We have lots of success examples all around us, so
> > it's time to act upon.
> >
> > On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Ian Gardner  > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > For what it's worth, I think it's evident that the test framework
> > > Rosegarden "should" be using is the Qt one. (As least, if it's any
> > > good -- which it is; it's pretty nice.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> >
> > *raises hand* yes I'm potentially interested in looking at stuff
> > around testing. I'll need to bone up on the Qt test stuff though,
> > never having used it before.
> >
> > I'm much more interested in the macro top level testing I was
> > talking about earlier (scripting out composition building by
> > capturing the commands issued) rather than the gnarly micro unit
> > testing of writing tests inside every single class and function in
> > RG. I exaggerate there of course, but hopefully you catch my drift!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> --
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landsc

Re: [Rosegarden-user] Fwd: [Rosegarden-devel] Rosegarden's Future

[David Tisdell]

Claudio,

I can't guarantee anything on recruiting developers but I can put it out
there on Apple developer lists. I am not a developer myself but I can
test some builds. I have all three platforms running at home (Linux, Mac
and Windows). I have installed the Windows alpha and it is very
promising (Thanks Richard).

Dave

On 5/13/12 6:56 PM, Cláudio Pinheiro wrote:
> I'm interested in a Mac port, and I may help with coding.
> Most of my coding experience involves portable code between Linux,
> Windows, ARM and microcontrollers, and I develop for Mac as a hobby.
> Having said that, I believe the biggest problem I see today in
> Rosegarden is the following mentality:
> "I'm a Linux user and I want a tool to help me making music on
> Linux.". So Rosegarden is chosen because it's the most comprehensive
> DAW for the Linux platform, making the choice to use it subordinated
> to the choice of which operating system one wants to use. As the
> Linux-using musicians demographics is a tiny one is somewhat natural
> to expect that Rosegarden's visibility is minimal. And as Linux-using
> musicians programmers with free time and interest are even rarer,
> things pile up on the TODO queue (111 open bugs and 144 open feature
> requests).
> Let's take the opposite example: Mixxx. Multiplatform, Qt-based,
> low-latency DJ mixing program, runs on Linux, Windows and Mac OS X,
> GPL-licensed, free in App Store, has 800+ reviews (4.5 stars) and a
> thriving community.
> What's the main difference between Mixxx and Rosegarden as end-user
> products? When somebody wants to go into DJ'ing he/she can choose
> Mixxx to do the job as a (better) alternative to the commercial ones.
> When somebody wants to write music with a DAW he/she'll try to use a
> program that fulfills its needs. If he/she uses Linux Rosegarden is a
> choice. Had Rosegarden be multiplatform, the mentality would be "I
> want a tool to help me making music" instead of "I'm a Linux user and
> I want a tool to help me making music on Linux.". When we remove the
> platform from the equation we broaden Rosegarden's target audience
> tenfold? Thirtyfold? If we were able to have iOS and Android ports, oh my.
> Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can
> generate a critical mass that would attract developers that would
> maintain a sustained growth and (even) better codebase and
> documentation. To achieve it Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform
> path. It must be the top priority now for the future's greater good.
> With this in mind, somebody said that would be able to recruit coders
> to work on a Mac port, please do so and ask them to do it in a
> multiplatform way. Somebody said that could help with the homepage.
> Please step up and do something "seksy", atractive. Let's have
> commitment. Let's make Rosegarden reach what no other DAW I'm aware of
> has reached and Mixxx, LibreOffice and others had reached in their
> respective niches. We have lots of success examples all around us, so
> it's time to act upon.
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Ian Gardner  > wrote:
>
>
>
> > For what it's worth, I think it's evident that the test framework
> > Rosegarden "should" be using is the Qt one. (As least, if it's any
> > good -- which it is; it's pretty nice.)
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
> *raises hand* yes I'm potentially interested in looking at stuff
> around testing. I'll need to bone up on the Qt test stuff though,
> never having used it before.
>
> I'm much more interested in the macro top level testing I was
> talking about earlier (scripting out composition building by
> capturing the commands issued) rather than the gnarly micro unit
> testing of writing tests inside every single class and function in
> RG. I exaggerate there of course, but hopefully you catch my drift!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian.
>
>
> 
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

[Gary G .]

D. Michael McIntyre  writes:

> 
> On Sunday, May 13, 2012, Gary G. wrote:
> 
> > One thing I've already noticed is that... the txt2rgd.py script doesn't seem
> > to call in any archivers... I'm sort of wondering if it even works as
> > intended to begin with.
> 
> Yes, Rosegarden can read these files whether they're compressed or not.  
> Compressed is standard, and the compression format used is gzip, not rar.

Thanks for the filespec info Michael.  That's a big help.  And a Big Thanks
for all the effort you put in to keep all of us musically inclined geeks happy.

 :)

I'll send the modified script back to you guys as soon as I'm sure it does what
it's supposed to do.





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