Re: [scifinoir2] Re: 'Grindhouse' To Be Split in Two?
While I agree that three hours is too long, wasn't Kill Bill and lord of the rings long too? Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, I hear that Planet Terror isn't thought to be as good as Death Proof. I still wish they could have left them together as one movie, though i admit that a three hour length is too long. -- Original message -- From: B. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:daikaiju66%40yahoo.com I better get my butt in gear and check it out before it disappears. I grew up in New Orleans and there were several Grindhouse type theaters(The Circle, The Gallo, The Carver, The Famous, The Orpheum, etc.) and I got to watch some of the same stuff that Tarantino loves so much. Unfortunately those movies were cult flicks for a reason. I get that Planet Terror is pastiche of Italian zombie gore flicks but some folks don't. Another downside to the movie is the massive shift in tone from Planet Terror to Death Proof. It seems to be throwing some folks off. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I disagree with this. I don't think the idea of a double- feature is that hard to grasp, even for youngsters who've never seen one before. Hell, I'm 43, and though I'm extremely familiar with the term, I never saw one at the theatre back in the day. I think it has more to do with whether the subject matter and marketing themselves were appealing. I think the girl with the machine-gun leg, adn the cheesy zombie shots made some people laugh, but maybe didn't excite them. People nowadays--espeically the young folk--seem to be going for that disgustingly explicit and gore-based horror that's all the rage. Stuff like Saw, Hostel, Touristas, etc. Both of these flicks are very tongue-in-cheek and self-referential. Now, I rmember the days of crap like Boggy Creek, MAcon COunty Line, The Incredible Two-Headed Transplant, etc., so I want to see them. But for those who aren't my age, and for youngsters, the lack of obvious horror gore or Kill Bill style fighting and acti on may not be a draw. Perhaps--perhaps--the combined three hour length hurt a bit of business. But I think a tweak in marketing--such as trailers shown--would be more effective. I'd hate to see the concept die just because the audience isn't hip or interested enough to get it. Besides, sometimes the movie going public just doesn't get it. That's what DVD and On Demand rentals are for. Grindhouse is gonna do very well there... -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ovie mogul Harvey Weinstein is planning to re-release Grindhouse as two separate films - after the double-bill flopped at the box office. The film, a double-feature directed by Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez made just $11.6 million in its opening weekend in the US. Producer Weinstein is disappointed - and thinks Tarantino's Death Proof, starring Kurt Russell, and Rodriguez' Planet Terror, with Rose McGowan, will perform better on their own. He tells PageSix.com, I don't think people understood what we were doing. The audience didn't get the idea that it is two movies for the price of one. I don't understand the math, but I want to accommodate the audience. http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2007-04-11/ http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2007-04-11/ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[scifinoir2] Novelist Kurt Vonnegut dies at age 84
Martin, you were just talking to me about Vonnegut's work, which I guess I'll now be discovering posthumously for him. Again, I hate to admit I've never read any of his stuff. Love the quotes, especially this jab at teh Bushites: (upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography), or this epitaph left for aliens who visit Earth in the future: We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap I wonder, what writer(s) active now would you consider to be a spiritual descendant of Vonnegut's? *** Novelist Kurt Vonnegut dies at age 84 By CRISTIAN SALAZAR, Associated Press Writer 54 minutes ago Kurt Vonnegut, the satirical novelist who captured the absurdity of war and questioned the advances of science in darkly humorous works such as Slaughterhouse-Five and Cat's Cradle, died Wednesday. He was 84. Vonnegut, who often marveled that he had lived so long despite his lifelong smoking habit, had suffered brain injuries after a fall at his Manhattan home weeks ago, said his wife, photographer Jill Krementz. The author of at least 19 novels, many of them best-sellers, as well as dozens of short stories, essays and plays, Vonnegut relished the role of a social critic. Indianapolis, his hometown, declared 2007 as The Year of Vonnegut an announcement he said left him thunderstruck. He lectured regularly, exhorting audiences to think for themselves and delighting in barbed commentary against the institutions he felt were dehumanizing people. I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, Vonnegut, whose watery, heavy-lidded eyes and unruly hair made him seem to be in existential pain, once told a gathering of psychiatrists. A self-described religious skeptic and freethinking humanist, Vonnegut used protagonists such as Billy Pilgrim and Eliot Rosewater as transparent vehicles for his points of view. He also filled his novels with satirical commentary and even drawings that were only loosely connected to the plot. In Slaughterhouse-Five, he drew a headstone with the epitaph: Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt. But much in his life was traumatic, and left him in pain. Despite his commercial success, Vonnegut battled depression throughout his life, and in 1984, he attempted suicide with pills and alcohol, joking later about how he botched the job. I think he was a man who combined a wicked sense of humor and sort of steady moral compass, who was always sort of looking at the big picture of the things that were most important, said Joel Bleifuss, editor of In These Times, a liberal magazine based in Chicago that featured Vonnegut articles. His mother killed herself just before he left for Germany during World War II, where he was quickly taken prisoner during the Battle of the Bulge. He was being held in Dresden when Allied bombs created a firestorm that killed an estimated tens of thousands of people. The firebombing of Dresden explains absolutely nothing about why I write what I write and am what I am, Vonnegut wrote in Fates Worse Than Death, his 1991 autobiography of sorts. But he spent 23 years struggling to write about the ordeal, which he survived by huddling with other POW's inside an underground meat locker labeled slaughterhouse-five. The novel, in which Pvt. Pilgrim is transported from Dresden by time-traveling aliens from the planet Tralfamadore, was published at the height of the Vietnam War, and solidified his reputation as an iconoclast. He was sort of like nobody else, said Gore Vidal, who noted that he, Vonnegut and Norman Mailer were among the last writers around who served in World War II. He was imaginative; our generation of writers didn't go in for imagination very much. Literary realism was the general style. Those of us who came out of the war in the 1940s made it sort of the official American prose, and it was often a bit on the dull side. Kurt was never dull. Vonnegut was born on Nov. 11, 1922, in Indianapolis, a fourth-generation German-American religious skeptic Freethinker, and studied chemistry at Cornell University before joining the Army. When he returned, he reported for Chicago's City News Bureau, then did public relations for General Electric, a job he loathed. He wrote his first novel, Player Piano, in 1951, followed by The Sirens of Titan, Canary in a Cat House and Mother Night, making ends meet by selling Saabs on Cape Cod. Critics ignored him at first, then denigrated his deliberately bizarre stories and disjointed plots as haphazardly written science fiction. But his novels became cult classics, especially Cat's Cradle in 1963, in which scientists create ice-nine, a crystal that turns water solid and destroys the earth. Many of his novels were best-sellers. Some also were banned and burned for suspected obscenity. Vonnegut took on censorship as an active member of the PEN writers' aid group
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: 'Grindhouse' To Be Split in Two?
Kill Bill was three hours, and Tarentino and the studio therefore split it into Kill Bill Part 1 and Kill Bill Part 2, released a few month's apart. That seems to have worked. The LOTR flicks were all three hours long, but that's rare nowadays, and I think the density of the source material more than justified it. I'm probably a bad example, because I like long movies and have no trouble with a three hour double-feature, but I can see that most people nowadays don't have the staying power. Heck, more people are deciding to skip the theatre altogether in favor of home viewing, where they can pause movies frequently. I'm old-school and love my big-screen theatre-going experience, where you more or less have to absorb the whole film at once. Nothing drives me crazier than watching a movie at home and having to pause it for bathroom breaks, cooking, phone calls, etc. -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] While I agree that three hours is too long, wasn't Kill Bill and lord of the rings long too? Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, I hear that Planet Terror isn't thought to be as good as Death Proof. I still wish they could have left them together as one movie, though i admit that a three hour length is too long. -- Original message -- From: B. Smith I better get my butt in gear and check it out before it disappears. I grew up in New Orleans and there were several Grindhouse type theaters(The Circle, The Gallo, The Carver, The Famous, The Orpheum, etc.) and I got to watch some of the same stuff that Tarantino loves so much. Unfortunately those movies were cult flicks for a reason. I get that Planet Terror is pastiche of Italian zombie gore flicks but some folks don't. Another downside to the movie is the massive shift in tone from Planet Terror to Death Proof. It seems to be throwing some folks off. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I disagree with this. I don't think the idea of a double- feature is that hard to grasp, even for youngsters who've never seen one before. Hell, I'm 43, and though I'm extremely familiar with the term, I never saw one at the theatre back in the day. I think it has more to do with whether the subject matter and marketing themselves were appealing. I think the girl with the machine-gun leg, adn the cheesy zombie shots made some people laugh, but maybe didn't excite them. People nowadays--espeically the young folk--seem to be going for that disgustingly explicit and gore-based horror that's all the rage. Stuff like Saw, Hostel, Touristas, etc. Both of these flicks are very tongue-in-cheek and self-referential. Now, I rmember the days of crap like Boggy Creek, MAcon COunty Line, The Incredible Two-Headed Transplant, etc., so I want to see them. But for those who aren't my age, and for youngsters, the lack of obvious horror gore or Kill Bill style fighting and acti on may not be a draw. Perhaps--perhaps--the combined three hour length hurt a bit of business. But I think a tweak in marketing--such as trailers shown--would be more effective. I'd hate to see the concept die just because the audience isn't hip or interested enough to get it. Besides, sometimes the movie going public just doesn't get it. That's what DVD and On Demand rentals are for. Grindhouse is gonna do very well there... -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) ovie mogul Harvey Weinstein is planning to re-release Grindhouse as two separate films - after the double-bill flopped at the box office. The film, a double-feature directed by Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez made just $11.6 million in its opening weekend in the US. Producer Weinstein is disappointed - and thinks Tarantino's Death Proof, starring Kurt Russell, and Rodriguez' Planet Terror, with Rose McGowan, will perform better on their own. He tells PageSix.com, I don't think people understood what we were doing. The audience didn't get the idea that it is two movies for the price of one. I don't understand the math, but I want to accommodate the audience. http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2007-04-11/ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [scifinoir2] Novelist Kurt Vonnegut dies at age 84
:-( [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin, you were just talking to me about Vonnegut's work, which I guess I'll now be discovering posthumously for him. Again, I hate to admit I've never read any of his stuff. Love the quotes, especially this jab at teh Bushites: (upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography), or this epitaph left for aliens who visit Earth in the future: We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap I wonder, what writer(s) active now would you consider to be a spiritual descendant of Vonnegut's? *** Novelist Kurt Vonnegut dies at age 84 By CRISTIAN SALAZAR, Associated Press Writer 54 minutes ago Kurt Vonnegut, the satirical novelist who captured the absurdity of war and questioned the advances of science in darkly humorous works such as Slaughterhouse-Five and Cat's Cradle, died Wednesday. He was 84. Vonnegut, who often marveled that he had lived so long despite his lifelong smoking habit, had suffered brain injuries after a fall at his Manhattan home weeks ago, said his wife, photographer Jill Krementz. The author of at least 19 novels, many of them best-sellers, as well as dozens of short stories, essays and plays, Vonnegut relished the role of a social critic. Indianapolis, his hometown, declared 2007 as The Year of Vonnegut an announcement he said left him thunderstruck. He lectured regularly, exhorting audiences to think for themselves and delighting in barbed commentary against the institutions he felt were dehumanizing people. I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, Vonnegut, whose watery, heavy-lidded eyes and unruly hair made him seem to be in existential pain, once told a gathering of psychiatrists. A self-described religious skeptic and freethinking humanist, Vonnegut used protagonists such as Billy Pilgrim and Eliot Rosewater as transparent vehicles for his points of view. He also filled his novels with satirical commentary and even drawings that were only loosely connected to the plot. In Slaughterhouse-Five, he drew a headstone with the epitaph: Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt. But much in his life was traumatic, and left him in pain. Despite his commercial success, Vonnegut battled depression throughout his life, and in 1984, he attempted suicide with pills and alcohol, joking later about how he botched the job. I think he was a man who combined a wicked sense of humor and sort of steady moral compass, who was always sort of looking at the big picture of the things that were most important, said Joel Bleifuss, editor of In These Times, a liberal magazine based in Chicago that featured Vonnegut articles. His mother killed herself just before he left for Germany during World War II, where he was quickly taken prisoner during the Battle of the Bulge. He was being held in Dresden when Allied bombs created a firestorm that killed an estimated tens of thousands of people. The firebombing of Dresden explains absolutely nothing about why I write what I write and am what I am, Vonnegut wrote in Fates Worse Than Death, his 1991 autobiography of sorts. But he spent 23 years struggling to write about the ordeal, which he survived by huddling with other POW's inside an underground meat locker labeled slaughterhouse-five. The novel, in which Pvt. Pilgrim is transported from Dresden by time-traveling aliens from the planet Tralfamadore, was published at the height of the Vietnam War, and solidified his reputation as an iconoclast. He was sort of like nobody else, said Gore Vidal, who noted that he, Vonnegut and Norman Mailer were among the last writers around who served in World War II. He was imaginative; our generation of writers didn't go in for imagination very much. Literary realism was the general style. Those of us who came out of the war in the 1940s made it sort of the official American prose, and it was often a bit on the dull side. Kurt was never dull. Vonnegut was born on Nov. 11, 1922, in Indianapolis, a fourth-generation German-American religious skeptic Freethinker, and studied chemistry at Cornell University before joining the Army. When he returned, he reported for Chicago's City News Bureau, then did public relations for General Electric, a job he loathed. He wrote his first novel, Player Piano, in 1951, followed by The Sirens of Titan, Canary in a Cat House and Mother Night, making ends meet by selling Saabs on Cape Cod. Critics ignored him at first, then denigrated his deliberately bizarre stories and disjointed plots as haphazardly written science fiction. But his novels became cult classics, especially Cat's Cradle in 1963, in which scientists create ice-nine, a crystal that turns water solid and destroys the earth. Many of his novels were best-sellers. Some also were banned and burned for suspected obscenity. Vonnegut took on censorship as an active member of the PEN writers' aid group and the American
[scifinoir2] Re: Sponsors Abandon Imus
My favorite hoe reference involves super Jeopardy player Ken Jennings who, after setting records as the longest reigning Jeopardy champion, was undone by the answer disreputable person, also a garden implement. To which Jennings responded in the form of a question, What is a hoe? (the answer was What is a rake?). ~rave! --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: rave, I won't even allow you cntext. The word is ugly, no matter who uses it or whom it's used on. Everytime I hear it, I'm reminded of the scene from House Party, in which either Kid or Play (whichever was the lighter of the two) complains to a teacher that a fellow student called his mother a h*e. The teacher looked at the other student and asked him, Now, why would you refer to his mother as a garden implement? ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The simple answer to this question is that the hos referred to in rap music are general (and of tenuous, if dubious merit) and the insult hurled at the Rutgers basketball team is specific and totally without merit. To expand, the use of ho in rap music may even have context (see Prince's Darling Nikki). Imus' insult had no context whatsoever. Further, the co-mingling of offensive rap lyrics and Imus' comments is ingenuous and truly the last refuge of this scoundrel. I submit that Imus may have been safe if he had stopped at tatted up and nappy-headed. Calling this accomplished women hos is where he crossed the line. I am curious if any of you can refer me to a rap lyric to me that similarly and specifically trashes black women of character and accomplishment. I ask because while I enjoy rap music, I never listen to the lyrics, I only listen to the beats (I don't listen to the lyrics of any music - imagine my surprise as I was watching Walk the Line when Joachim Phoenix articulated that famous Johnny Cash line from Folsom Prison Blues: I shot a man...just to watch him die. Lord, a mercy! I'm a scared of hillbillies, now! Somebody got do something bout that anti-social country music!). ~rave! --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], votomguy votomguy@ wrote: While it'll probably be hard for Imus to get work again, a very important issue within our community has to be answered. Why is it ok for us to call our women hos, but if someone outside our race does it we're suddenly up in arms. The saddest thing to me about the whole Imus thing is the la attitude that blacks are taking towards our own who refer to women as hos. This whole thing that it's ok for me to talk about my momma, but you can't talk about my momma. Imus should be held accountable, but the double standard in our community has to go. We can't say zero tolerance and then turn around and have special exceptions. It's also sad to say, but how much attention do we really pay to NCAA womens basketball. This one team has received more attention then any other team in Women's basketball history. Everyone talks about their story, but where was all of this coverage before the Imus debacle. That is the saddest thing of all in all of this. Would we have paid any real attention to these women and what they accomplished, or would we have glossed over the story simply saying wow that's nice. If anything, we really need to reexamine not only how we treat women, but also their accomplishments. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin truthseeker_013@ wrote: It's a start. Now he has to lose his job, and be unable to obtain gainful employment for some time to come, before the collective lesson begins to sink in. I was watching Cold Pizza on ESPN2 yesterday, and one of the commentators said (paraphrasing *very* roughly), if a regualr everyday broadcaster were to have uttered such words, he or she would've been fired on the spot. Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) tdlists@ wrote: By DAVID CRARY ASSOCIATED PRESS NEW YORK â Bruce Gordon, former head of the NAACP and a director of CBS Corp., said Wednesday the broadcasting company needs a âzero tolerance policyâ on racism and hopes talk-show host Don Imus is fired for his demeaning remarks about the mostly black Rutgers womenâs basketball team. âHeâs crossed the line, heâs violated our community,â Gordon said in a telephone interview with the Associated Press. âHe needs to face the consequence of that violation.â Gordon, a longtime telecommunications executive, stepped down in March after 19 months as head of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, one of the foremost U.S. civil rights organizations. He said he had spoken with CBS chief executive Leslie Moonves and hoped the company, after reviewing the situation, would âmake the smart decisionâ by firing Imus rather than
[scifinoir2] More Supernatural and Sci-Fi pilots on tap for fall season
I tell ya, it has been quite a year...the Wisconsin basketball team number one in the nation for FOUR WHOLE DAYS...John Thompson, Patrick Ewing and Georgetown back in the Final Four (it must be 1985 all over again!)...Heroes the top rated new show of the on-going television season. I remember when sci-fi and fantasy were subjects non grata on television. Now every other pilot seems to have a supernatural theme. ~rave! http://www.calendarlive.com/printedition/calendar/cl-et-pilots10apr10,0,4116434.story PILOT SEASON TV pilots play for laughs Networks don't seem to follow a particular path except the one to your funny bone. By Maria Elena Fernandez Times Staff Writer April 10, 2007 WHAT do you get when you try to cross Heroes with Ugly Betty? A pilot season in which all the networks, it seems, are looking for a laugh. Even in dramas. So long to the dark serialized sagas of the past season. The tribe of viewers spoke, and Kidnapped, Smith, The Nine and Vanished, among others, quickly disappeared, giving way to close-ended dramas that manage to amuse as they titillate, and offbeat comedies with characters we haven't seen before. Of course, this is all theoretical because the shows are still in production. Of the 112 pilots in the works, an estimated 40 will make it on the air next season, making the race to find the next Heroes or Ugly Betty, the only two new shows that broke out this year, a near impossibility. NBC President of Entertainment Kevin Reilly said: The big headline was too much serialization, but then [NBC's] 'Heroes,' which is a highly serialized show, ends up being the biggest hit of the season. So you can't make those blanket statements. Addressing advertisers last month, ABC Primetime President Steve McPherson promised all dramas will be funny at his network, but he might as well have been speaking for his competitors too. The five networks have come up with a drama slate of quirky people, unexplored topics and new places. These include ABC's Eli Stone, a lawyer (Jonny Lee Miller) who thinks he might be a spiritual prophet; Viva Laughlin, CBS' version of the BBC musical drama Viva Blackpool; Fox's New Amsterdam, the story of a New York homicide detective (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) who is 417 years old; NBC's Journeyman, about a man (Kevin McKidd) who travels back in time to change events in people's lives while trying to manage his own life in the past and present; and the CW's tentatively titled Spellbound, about a young life coach (Laura Bittner) who happens to be a witch. Suzanne Patmore-Gibbs, ABC's senior vice president of drama development, said Ugly Betty has inspired some risk-taking. Because of the look [director] Richard Shepherd brought to 'Ugly Betty,' as well as the specific tone that [creator] Silvio Horta found, that show distinguishes itself from everything else on TV. The Heroes effect also is in place, both in dramas and comedies. Although the networks did not return to the foreboding aliens that took over prime time two years ago, the NBC phenomenon has definitely triggered an interest in the supernatural and in death and the afterlife. I think it's due to the success of 'Heroes' and 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer'-type lore of years ago, said Shari Anne Brill, director of programming at Carat USA, a New York-based ad firm. The pendulum seems to be coming back to that. NBC is remaking The Bionic Woman as a coming-of-age tale, starring Michelle Ryan. Fox is producing The Sarah Connor Chronicles, based on the character in the Terminator movie franchise, and Them based on the graphic novel Six, about agents who must retrieve extraterrestrial terrorists who can assume human form. On CBS, the dead are coming back to life on Long Island on Babylon Fields, a psychologist performs exorcisms on Demons and a private investigator is also a vampire on Twilight. ABC's Pushing Daisies is about a man (Lee Pace) who can bring dead people back to life just by touching them. The CW has Reaper, a drama about a 21-year-old slacker who becomes the devil's bounty hunter, retrieving souls escaped from hell, and Hell on Earth, a comedy about a mean teenage girl who dies and gets a second chance. CBS also is producing a comedy, I'm in Hell, about a wealthy guy (Jason Biggs) who gets sent back to Earth because hell is full. The best television shows come from a new place, and you've got to experiment with new places, said Tim Spengler, programming analyst for Initiative Media, an ad-buying firm. Consistently ripping off what was new rarely wins. 'Lost' is a little bit strange. It showed it's OK to take chances. To that end, there's a broad range of multi-camera, single-camera and hybrid comedies covering the gamut of genres, as the networks vie for the elusive comedy hit. This season, CBS' Two and a Half Men is the only comedy breaking the top 20 among total viewers. Among 18- to 49-year-olds, the demographic most desired by advertisers, there are no comedies in the top 20. Of the 54
[scifinoir2] Tribute video montage to Vonnegut
Tribute video montage to Vonnegut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atABhlMLYvU
[scifinoir2] Re: 'Grindhouse' To Be Split in Two?
I guess it depends on what you like. A lot of folks I know loved the over the top adrenaline rush of Planet Terror while others liked the slow burn of Death Proof. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, I hear that Planet Terror isn't thought to be as good as Death Proof. I still wish they could have left them together as one movie, though i admit that a three hour length is too long. -- Original message -- From: B. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] I better get my butt in gear and check it out before it disappears. I grew up in New Orleans and there were several Grindhouse type theaters(The Circle, The Gallo, The Carver, The Famous, The Orpheum, etc.) and I got to watch some of the same stuff that Tarantino loves so much. Unfortunately those movies were cult flicks for a reason. I get that Planet Terror is pastiche of Italian zombie gore flicks but some folks don't. Another downside to the movie is the massive shift in tone from Planet Terror to Death Proof. It seems to be throwing some folks off. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], KeithBJohnson@ wrote: I think I disagree with this. I don't think the idea of a double- feature is that hard to grasp, even for youngsters who've never seen one before. Hell, I'm 43, and though I'm extremely familiar with the term, I never saw one at the theatre back in the day. I think it has more to do with whether the subject matter and marketing themselves were appealing. I think the girl with the machine-gun leg, adn the cheesy zombie shots made some people laugh, but maybe didn't excite them. People nowadays--espeically the young folk--seem to be going for that disgustingly explicit and gore-based horror that's all the rage. Stuff like Saw, Hostel, Touristas, etc. Both of these flicks are very tongue-in-cheek and self-referential. Now, I rmember the days of crap like Boggy Creek, MAcon COunty Line, The Incredible Two-Headed Transplant, etc., so I want to see them. But for those who aren't my age, and for youngsters, the lack of obvious horror gore or Kill Bill style fighting and acti on may not be a draw. Perhaps--perhaps--the combined three hour length hurt a bit of business. But I think a tweak in marketing-- such as trailers shown--would be more effective. I'd hate to see the concept die just because the audience isn't hip or interested enough to get it. Besides, sometimes the movie going public just doesn't get it. That's what DVD and On Demand rentals are for. Grindhouse is gonna do very well there... -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) tdlists@ ovie mogul Harvey Weinstein is planning to re-release Grindhouse as two separate films - after the double-bill flopped at the box office. The film, a double-feature directed by Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez made just $11.6 million in its opening weekend in the US. Producer Weinstein is disappointed - and thinks Tarantino's Death Proof, starring Kurt Russell, and Rodriguez' Planet Terror, with Rose McGowan, will perform better on their own. He tells PageSix.com, I don't think people understood what we were doing. The audience didn't get the idea that it is two movies for the price of one. I don't understand the math, but I want to accommodate the audience. http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2007-04-11/ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[scifinoir2] Re: New guy's Original Message
I have the first novel where the Skinks showed up but I haven't read anything beyond that. I'll have to give them another shot. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], votomguy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: star fist kinda lost me a little with the whole metaplot they have going with the skinks. lazarus rising kinda sucked (at least compared to their earlier stuff.) it looks like you missed the start of the metaplot, which sucks. the series was better as one shot campaigns with occasional references to previous ones. although, i do like their starfist series. and i agree, steel guanlet was the best book in the series period. for me blood contact is number too. it reads a little like aliens, but they do a good job of not making it sound like a cheesy knock off. the old man's war/ ghost brigade sounds pretty interesting. i just might have to pick it up. that is if i can seem to put down some of my gaming books. i want to my void 1.1 book that's collecting dust as we speak. and the votoms rpg book is calling my name, but i really got to get back to reading novels, some how sourcebooks aren't giving my brain the tickle it needs. anywho, thanks for the suggestions. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], B. Smith daikaiju66@ wrote: I've been leery about buying anything by Dan Cragg since he got involved in the Virginia Senate election debacle. I liked the first few books of the series but the one with the neo-gladiator stuff kind of turned me off on the series. My favorite of the series is Steel Guantlet. That was a great piece of military sf. If you like military sci-fi try the Sten series by Allan Cole and Chris Bunch. I'd tell most folks to skip the first novel or read it later. It gives the back story of Sten but not as much of the stuff that made the rest of the books so great. The Tahn Wars arc begins in the third book Court Of A Thousand Suns and it's great. After the Tahn Wars there's a huge twist and the last two books of the series turn into something very, very different. Chris Bunch passed away a couple of years ago but he has three other mil sf series that he wrote solo: The Last Legion, The Shadow Warrior and Star Risk, LTD. The Last Legion and Shadow Warrior are pretty good but the gem of his solo work is Star Risk imho. It's about a small private military company that is at war with a huge rival called Cerebus Systems. It's lighthearted compared to Sten and the other series but that tone plays well because these guys and girls are supposed to be likeable rogues and it works but they are still hardcore mercenaries and they get into some pretty nasty fights. John Scalzi's The Old Man's War and The Ghost Brigades are also very, very good. It's more Forever War than Hammer's Slammers but he set up a great universe and humanity's place in it is precarious. Humans aren't the top dog, heck for some races humans are literally livestock, and Earth's populace has been kept in the dark about just how bad things are in the universe.
[scifinoir2] Fw: Novelist Kurt Vonnegut dies at age 84
[EMAIL PROTECTED] We have lost one of the great literary giants of the age whose work crossed the boundaries of genre and became classic. He was also a titan of enlightened humanism. HE WILL BE MISSED! Amy *** Novelist Kurt Vonnegut dies at age 84 By CRISTIAN SALAZAR, Associated Press Writer 54 minutes ago Kurt Vonnegut, the satirical novelist who captured the absurdity of war and questioned the advances of science in darkly humorous works such as Slaughterhouse-Five and Cat's Cradle, died Wednesday. He was 84. Vonnegut, who often marveled that he had lived so long despite his lifelong smoking habit, had suffered brain injuries after a fall at his Manhattan home weeks ago, said his wife, photographer Jill Krementz. The author of at least 19 novels, many of them best-sellers, as well as dozens of short stories, essays and plays, Vonnegut relished the role of a social critic. Indianapolis, his hometown, declared 2007 as The Year of Vonnegut - an announcement he said left him thunderstruck. He lectured regularly, exhorting audiences to think for themselves and delighting in barbed commentary against the institutions he felt were dehumanizing people. I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, Vonnegut, whose watery, heavy-lidded eyes and unruly hair made him seem to be in existential pain, once told a gathering of psychiatrists. A self-described religious skeptic and freethinking humanist, Vonnegut used protagonists such as Billy Pilgrim and Eliot Rosewater as transparent vehicles for his points of view. He also filled his novels with satirical commentary and even drawings that were only loosely connected to the plot. In Slaughterhouse-Five, he drew a headstone with the epitaph: Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt. But much in his life was traumatic, and left him in pain. Despite his commercial success, Vonnegut battled depression throughout his life, and in 1984, he attempted suicide with pills and alcohol, joking later about how he botched the job. I think he was a man who combined a wicked sense of humor and sort of steady moral compass, who was always sort of looking at the big picture of the things that were most important, said Joel Bleifuss, editor of In These Times, a liberal magazine based in Chicago that featured Vonnegut articles. His mother killed herself just before he left for Germany during World War II, where he was quickly taken prisoner during the Battle of the Bulge. He was being held in Dresden when Allied bombs created a firestorm that killed an estimated tens of thousands of people. The firebombing of Dresden explains absolutely nothing about why I write what I write and am what I am, Vonnegut wrote in Fates Worse Than Death, his 1991 autobiography of sorts. But he spent 23 years struggling to write about the ordeal, which he survived by huddling with other POW's inside an underground meat locker labeled slaughterhouse-five. The novel, in which Pvt. Pilgrim is transported from Dresden by time-traveling aliens from the planet Tralfamadore, was published at the height of the Vietnam War, and solidified his reputation as an iconoclast. He was sort of like nobody else, said Gore Vidal, who noted that he, Vonnegut and Norman Mailer were among the last writers around who served in World War II. He was imaginative; our generation of writers didn't go in for imagination very much. Literary realism was the general style. Those of us who came out of the war in the 1940s made it sort of the official American prose, and it was often a bit on the dull side. Kurt was never dull. Vonnegut was born on Nov. 11, 1922, in Indianapolis, a fourth-generation German-American religious skeptic Freethinker, and studied chemistry at Cornell University before joining the Army. When he returned, he reported for Chicago's City News Bureau, then did public relations for General Electric, a job he loathed. He wrote his first novel, Player Piano, in 1951, followed by The Sirens of Titan, Canary in a Cat House and Mother Night, making ends meet by selling Saabs on Cape Cod. Critics ignored him at first, then denigrated his deliberately bizarre stories and disjointed plots as haphazardly written science fiction. But his novels became cult classics, especially Cat's Cradle in 1963, in which scientists create ice-nine, a crystal that turns water solid and destroys the earth. Many of his novels were best-sellers. Some also were banned and burned for suspected obscenity. Vonnegut took on censorship as an active member of the PEN writers' aid group and the American Civil Liberties Union. The American Humanist Association, which promotes individual freedom, rational thought and scientific skepticism, made him its honorary president. His characters tended to be miserable anti-heros with little control over their fate. Vonnegut said the villains in his books were never individuals, but culture,
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Sponsors Abandon Imus
Okay, that one's gold. ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My favorite hoe reference involves super Jeopardy player Ken Jennings who, after setting records as the longest reigning Jeopardy champion, was undone by the answer disreputable person, also a garden implement. To which Jennings responded in the form of a question, What is a hoe? (the answer was What is a rake?). ~rave! --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: rave, I won't even allow you cntext. The word is ugly, no matter who uses it or whom it's used on. Everytime I hear it, I'm reminded of the scene from House Party, in which either Kid or Play (whichever was the lighter of the two) complains to a teacher that a fellow student called his mother a h*e. The teacher looked at the other student and asked him, Now, why would you refer to his mother as a garden implement? ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The simple answer to this question is that the hos referred to in rap music are general (and of tenuous, if dubious merit) and the insult hurled at the Rutgers basketball team is specific and totally without merit. To expand, the use of ho in rap music may even have context (see Prince's Darling Nikki). Imus' insult had no context whatsoever. Further, the co-mingling of offensive rap lyrics and Imus' comments is ingenuous and truly the last refuge of this scoundrel. I submit that Imus may have been safe if he had stopped at tatted up and nappy-headed. Calling this accomplished women hos is where he crossed the line. I am curious if any of you can refer me to a rap lyric to me that similarly and specifically trashes black women of character and accomplishment. I ask because while I enjoy rap music, I never listen to the lyrics, I only listen to the beats (I don't listen to the lyrics of any music - imagine my surprise as I was watching Walk the Line when Joachim Phoenix articulated that famous Johnny Cash line from Folsom Prison Blues: I shot a man...just to watch him die. Lord, a mercy! I'm a scared of hillbillies, now! Somebody got do something bout that anti-social country music!). ~rave! --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], votomguy votomguy@ wrote: While it'll probably be hard for Imus to get work again, a very important issue within our community has to be answered. Why is it ok for us to call our women hos, but if someone outside our race does it we're suddenly up in arms. The saddest thing to me about the whole Imus thing is the la attitude that blacks are taking towards our own who refer to women as hos. This whole thing that it's ok for me to talk about my momma, but you can't talk about my momma. Imus should be held accountable, but the double standard in our community has to go. We can't say zero tolerance and then turn around and have special exceptions. It's also sad to say, but how much attention do we really pay to NCAA womens basketball. This one team has received more attention then any other team in Women's basketball history. Everyone talks about their story, but where was all of this coverage before the Imus debacle. That is the saddest thing of all in all of this. Would we have paid any real attention to these women and what they accomplished, or would we have glossed over the story simply saying wow that's nice. If anything, we really need to reexamine not only how we treat women, but also their accomplishments. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin truthseeker_013@ wrote: It's a start. Now he has to lose his job, and be unable to obtain gainful employment for some time to come, before the collective lesson begins to sink in. I was watching Cold Pizza on ESPN2 yesterday, and one of the commentators said (paraphrasing *very* roughly), if a regualr everyday broadcaster were to have uttered such words, he or she would've been fired on the spot. Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) tdlists@ wrote: By DAVID CRARY ASSOCIATED PRESS NEW YORK â Bruce Gordon, former head of the NAACP and a director of CBS Corp., said Wednesday the broadcasting company needs a âzero tolerance policyâ on racism and hopes talk-show host Don Imus is fired for his demeaning remarks about the mostly black Rutgers womenâs basketball team. âHeâs crossed the line, heâs violated our community,â Gordon said in a telephone interview with the Associated Press. âHe needs to face the consequence of that violation.â Gordon, a longtime telecommunications executive, stepped down in March after 19 months as head of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, one of the foremost U.S. civil rights organizations. He said he had spoken with CBS chief executive Leslie Moonves and hoped the company, after reviewing the situation, would âmake
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: 'Grindhouse' To Be Split in Two?
I've noticed that patience these days is a lost artform. I even know a cpouple of hardcore AI fans who can't bother to watch the show, because it's too long. They'll watch the Daily Buzz the next day on UPN for the AI update. I was waffling on whether to go and see this, but this lukewarm reception it's getting publicly (so bad that Rose McGowan has been doing a second talk-show publicity run for it this morning) is driving me toward saddling up and pushing on up that five-minute-long road to the theater... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kill Bill was three hours, and Tarentino and the studio therefore split it into Kill Bill Part 1 and Kill Bill Part 2, released a few month's apart. That seems to have worked. The LOTR flicks were all three hours long, but that's rare nowadays, and I think the density of the source material more than justified it. I'm probably a bad example, because I like long movies and have no trouble with a three hour double-feature, but I can see that most people nowadays don't have the staying power. Heck, more people are deciding to skip the theatre altogether in favor of home viewing, where they can pause movies frequently. I'm old-school and love my big-screen theatre-going experience, where you more or less have to absorb the whole film at once. Nothing drives me crazier than watching a movie at home and having to pause it for bathroom breaks, cooking, phone calls, etc. -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] While I agree that three hours is too long, wasn't Kill Bill and lord of the rings long too? Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, I hear that Planet Terror isn't thought to be as good as Death Proof. I still wish they could have left them together as one movie, though i admit that a three hour length is too long. -- Original message -- From: B. Smith I better get my butt in gear and check it out before it disappears. I grew up in New Orleans and there were several Grindhouse type theaters(The Circle, The Gallo, The Carver, The Famous, The Orpheum, etc.) and I got to watch some of the same stuff that Tarantino loves so much. Unfortunately those movies were cult flicks for a reason. I get that Planet Terror is pastiche of Italian zombie gore flicks but some folks don't. Another downside to the movie is the massive shift in tone from Planet Terror to Death Proof. It seems to be throwing some folks off. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I disagree with this. I don't think the idea of a double- feature is that hard to grasp, even for youngsters who've never seen one before. Hell, I'm 43, and though I'm extremely familiar with the term, I never saw one at the theatre back in the day. I think it has more to do with whether the subject matter and marketing themselves were appealing. I think the girl with the machine-gun leg, adn the cheesy zombie shots made some people laugh, but maybe didn't excite them. People nowadays--espeically the young folk--seem to be going for that disgustingly explicit and gore-based horror that's all the rage. Stuff like Saw, Hostel, Touristas, etc. Both of these flicks are very tongue-in-cheek and self-referential. Now, I rmember the days of crap like Boggy Creek, MAcon COunty Line, The Incredible Two-Headed Transplant, etc., so I want to see them. But for those who aren't my age, and for youngsters, the lack of obvious horror gore or Kill Bill style fighting and acti on may not be a draw. Perhaps--perhaps--the combined three hour length hurt a bit of business. But I think a tweak in marketing--such as trailers shown--would be more effective. I'd hate to see the concept die just because the audience isn't hip or interested enough to get it. Besides, sometimes the movie going public just doesn't get it. That's what DVD and On Demand rentals are for. Grindhouse is gonna do very well there... -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) ovie mogul Harvey Weinstein is planning to re-release Grindhouse as two separate films - after the double-bill flopped at the box office. The film, a double-feature directed by Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez made just $11.6 million in its opening weekend in the US. Producer Weinstein is disappointed - and thinks Tarantino's Death Proof, starring Kurt Russell, and Rodriguez' Planet Terror, with Rose McGowan, will perform better on their own. He tells PageSix.com, I don't think people understood what we were doing. The audience didn't get the idea that it is two movies for the price of one. I don't understand the math, but I want to accommodate the audience.
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: 'Grindhouse' To Be Split in Two?
Tracey, foe me, I could tolerate the length of the LOTR movies because the books themselves read as though they were infinitely long as well. And, from my own history of illness, I'vve mastered the art of being still for long periods of time. Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I agree that three hours is too long, wasn't Kill Bill and lord of the rings long too? Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, I hear that Planet Terror isn't thought to be as good as Death Proof. I still wish they could have left them together as one movie, though i admit that a three hour length is too long. -- Original message -- From: B. Smith I better get my butt in gear and check it out before it disappears. I grew up in New Orleans and there were several Grindhouse type theaters(The Circle, The Gallo, The Carver, The Famous, The Orpheum, etc.) and I got to watch some of the same stuff that Tarantino loves so much. Unfortunately those movies were cult flicks for a reason. I get that Planet Terror is pastiche of Italian zombie gore flicks but some folks don't. Another downside to the movie is the massive shift in tone from Planet Terror to Death Proof. It seems to be throwing some folks off. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I disagree with this. I don't think the idea of a double- feature is that hard to grasp, even for youngsters who've never seen one before. Hell, I'm 43, and though I'm extremely familiar with the term, I never saw one at the theatre back in the day. I think it has more to do with whether the subject matter and marketing themselves were appealing. I think the girl with the machine-gun leg, adn the cheesy zombie shots made some people laugh, but maybe didn't excite them. People nowadays--espeically the young folk--seem to be going for that disgustingly explicit and gore-based horror that's all the rage. Stuff like Saw, Hostel, Touristas, etc. Both of these flicks are very tongue-in-cheek and self-referential. Now, I rmember the days of crap like Boggy Creek, MAcon COunty Line, The Incredible Two-Headed Transplant, etc., so I want to see them. But for those who aren't my age, and for youngsters, the lack of obvious horror gore or Kill Bill style fighting and acti on may not be a draw. Perhaps--perhaps--the combined three hour length hurt a bit of business. But I think a tweak in marketing--such as trailers shown--would be more effective. I'd hate to see the concept die just because the audience isn't hip or interested enough to get it. Besides, sometimes the movie going public just doesn't get it. That's what DVD and On Demand rentals are for. Grindhouse is gonna do very well there... -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) ovie mogul Harvey Weinstein is planning to re-release Grindhouse as two separate films - after the double-bill flopped at the box office. The film, a double-feature directed by Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez made just $11.6 million in its opening weekend in the US. Producer Weinstein is disappointed - and thinks Tarantino's Death Proof, starring Kurt Russell, and Rodriguez' Planet Terror, with Rose McGowan, will perform better on their own. He tells PageSix.com, I don't think people understood what we were doing. The audience didn't get the idea that it is two movies for the price of one. I don't understand the math, but I want to accommodate the audience. http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2007-04-11/ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A Country - Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [scifinoir2] Fw: Novelist Kurt Vonnegut dies at age 84
A moment of silence for his memory,and a recommendation for all to read his last book, A Man Without A Country. Amy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have lost one of the great literary giants of the age whose work crossed the boundaries of genre and became classic. He was also a titan of enlightened humanism. HE WILL BE MISSED! Amy *** Novelist Kurt Vonnegut dies at age 84 By CRISTIAN SALAZAR, Associated Press Writer 54 minutes ago Kurt Vonnegut, the satirical novelist who captured the absurdity of war and questioned the advances of science in darkly humorous works such as Slaughterhouse-Five and Cat's Cradle, died Wednesday. He was 84. Vonnegut, who often marveled that he had lived so long despite his lifelong smoking habit, had suffered brain injuries after a fall at his Manhattan home weeks ago, said his wife, photographer Jill Krementz. The author of at least 19 novels, many of them best-sellers, as well as dozens of short stories, essays and plays, Vonnegut relished the role of a social critic. Indianapolis, his hometown, declared 2007 as The Year of Vonnegut - an announcement he said left him thunderstruck. He lectured regularly, exhorting audiences to think for themselves and delighting in barbed commentary against the institutions he felt were dehumanizing people. I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, Vonnegut, whose watery, heavy-lidded eyes and unruly hair made him seem to be in existential pain, once told a gathering of psychiatrists. A self-described religious skeptic and freethinking humanist, Vonnegut used protagonists such as Billy Pilgrim and Eliot Rosewater as transparent vehicles for his points of view. He also filled his novels with satirical commentary and even drawings that were only loosely connected to the plot. In Slaughterhouse-Five, he drew a headstone with the epitaph: Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt. But much in his life was traumatic, and left him in pain. Despite his commercial success, Vonnegut battled depression throughout his life, and in 1984, he attempted suicide with pills and alcohol, joking later about how he botched the job. I think he was a man who combined a wicked sense of humor and sort of steady moral compass, who was always sort of looking at the big picture of the things that were most important, said Joel Bleifuss, editor of In These Times, a liberal magazine based in Chicago that featured Vonnegut articles. His mother killed herself just before he left for Germany during World War II, where he was quickly taken prisoner during the Battle of the Bulge. He was being held in Dresden when Allied bombs created a firestorm that killed an estimated tens of thousands of people. The firebombing of Dresden explains absolutely nothing about why I write what I write and am what I am, Vonnegut wrote in Fates Worse Than Death, his 1991 autobiography of sorts. But he spent 23 years struggling to write about the ordeal, which he survived by huddling with other POW's inside an underground meat locker labeled slaughterhouse-five. The novel, in which Pvt. Pilgrim is transported from Dresden by time-traveling aliens from the planet Tralfamadore, was published at the height of the Vietnam War, and solidified his reputation as an iconoclast. He was sort of like nobody else, said Gore Vidal, who noted that he, Vonnegut and Norman Mailer were among the last writers around who served in World War II. He was imaginative; our generation of writers didn't go in for imagination very much. Literary realism was the general style. Those of us who came out of the war in the 1940s made it sort of the official American prose, and it was often a bit on the dull side. Kurt was never dull. Vonnegut was born on Nov. 11, 1922, in Indianapolis, a fourth-generation German-American religious skeptic Freethinker, and studied chemistry at Cornell University before joining the Army. When he returned, he reported for Chicago's City News Bureau, then did public relations for General Electric, a job he loathed. He wrote his first novel, Player Piano, in 1951, followed by The Sirens of Titan, Canary in a Cat House and Mother Night, making ends meet by selling Saabs on Cape Cod. Critics ignored him at first, then denigrated his deliberately bizarre stories and disjointed plots as haphazardly written science fiction. But his novels became cult classics, especially Cat's Cradle in 1963, in which scientists create ice-nine, a crystal that turns water solid and destroys the earth. Many of his novels were best-sellers. Some also were banned and burned for suspected obscenity. Vonnegut took on censorship as an active member of the PEN writers' aid group and the American Civil Liberties Union. The American Humanist Association, which promotes individual freedom, rational thought and scientific skepticism, made him its honorary president. His characters
[scifinoir2] Weakest Link: Star Trek Version
Weakest Link: Star Trek Version http://www.frogstar.com/trek/Weakest_Link_TREK.WMV
Re: [scifinoir2] Diabetics Cured by Stem-Cell Treatment
PSST- Tracey- don't tell Mister Bush about this... Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Diabetics Cured by Stem-Cell Treatment By David Rose The Times UK Wednesday 11 April 2007 Diabetics using stem-cell therapy have been able to stop taking insulin injections for the first time, after their bodies started to produce the hormone naturally again. In a breakthrough trial, 15 young patients with newly diagnosed type 1 diabetes were given drugs to suppress their immune systems followed by transfusions of stem cells drawn from their own blood. The results show that insulin-dependent diabetics can be freed from reliance on needles by an injection of their own stem cells. The therapy could signal a revolution in the treatment of the condition, which affects more than 300,000 Britons. People with type 1 diabetes have to give themselves regular injections to control blood-sugar levels, as their ability to create the hormone naturally is destroyed by an immune disorder. All but two of the volunteers in the trial, details of which are published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), do not need daily insulin injections up to three years after stopping their treatment regimes. The findings were released to reporters yesterday as the future of US stem-cell research was being debated in Washington. Stem cells are immature, unprogrammed cells that have the ability to grow into different kinds of tissue and can be sourced from people of all ages. Previous studies have suggested that stem-cell therapies offer huge potential to treat a variety of diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and motor neuron disease. A study by British scientists in November also reported that stem-cell injections could repair organ damage in heart attack victims. But research using the most versatile kind of stem cells - those acquired from human embryos - is currently opposed by powerful critics, including President Bush. The JAMA study provides the first clinical evidence for the efficacy of stem cells in type 1 diabetes. Sufferers of the chronic condition, which normally emerges in childhood or early adulthood, have to inject themselves at least four times a day. Type 2 diabetes, which tends to affect people later in life, is linked to lifestyle factors such as obesity. There are almost two million type 2 diabetics in Briton, most of whom control their blood-sugar levels with pills or through diet. The new study, by a joint team of Brazilian and American scientists, found that one of the first patients to undergo the procedure has not used any supplemental synthetic insulin for three years. Very encouraging results were obtained in a small number of patients with early-onset disease, the authors, led by Julio Voltarelli, from the University of São Paulo in Ribeirão Preto, Brazil. write. Ninety-three per cent of patients achieved different periods of insulin independence and treatment-related toxicity was low, with no mortality. Type 1 diabetes occurs when the body's own immune system malfunctions and destroys the insulin-producing beta cells of the pancreas, causing a shortage in the hormone. By the time most patients receive a clinical diagnosis, 60 to 80 per cent of their beta cells have been wiped out. The disease progresses from this point very quickly, and can result in serious long-term complications including blindness, kidney failure, heart disease and stroke. Dr Voltarelli's team hoped that if they intervened early enough they could wipe out and then rebuild the body's immune system by using stem cells, preserving a reservoir of beta cells and allowing them to to regenerate. They enrolled Brazilian diabetics aged between 14 and 31 who had been diagnosed within the previous six weeks. After stem cells had been harvested from their blood, they then underwent a mild form of chemotherapy to eliminate the white blood cells causing damage to the pancreas. They were then given transfusions of their own stem cells to help rebuild their immune systems. Richard Burt, a co-author of the study from Northwestern University's Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago, said that 14 of the 15 patients were insulin-free for some time following the treatment. Eleven of those were able to dispense with supplemental insulin immediately following the infusion of stem cells and have not had recourse to synthetic insulin since then, he said. Two other patients needed some supplemental insulin for 12 and 20 months after the procedure, but eventually both were able to wean themselves from taking daily shots, he added. One patient went 12 months without shots, but relapsed a year after treatment after suffering a viral infection, and resumed daily insulin injections. Another volunteer was eliminated from the study because of complications. The therapy, known as autologous hematopoietic stem cell transplantation,
[scifinoir2] Re: New guy's Original Message
don't worry you didn't miss munch. i stopped at about four books after hangfire (the one with the gladiators, don't worry i didn't get it either). it was nice to see a big fight with the skinks. they do a good job of keeping you in the dark about skink technology. it isn't until the second book that they reveal some of the science in the book. not to ruin the story, but the skinks even pull off a hyperspacial jump in the planet's atmosphere. now that was cool. i think this was the first scifi series that i saw that done in. unfortunately the storyline kinda isn't the same with the whole metaplot. i've migrated to starfist: force recon. some hardcore fans don't like it but i think it's neat to finally see how a special forces unit would work in the future. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], B. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the first novel where the Skinks showed up but I haven't read anything beyond that. I'll have to give them another shot. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], votomguy votomguy@ wrote: star fist kinda lost me a little with the whole metaplot they have going with the skinks. lazarus rising kinda sucked (at least compared to their earlier stuff.) it looks like you missed the start of the metaplot, which sucks. the series was better as one shot campaigns with occasional references to previous ones. although, i do like their starfist series. and i agree, steel guanlet was the best book in the series period. for me blood contact is number too. it reads a little like aliens, but they do a good job of not making it sound like a cheesy knock off. the old man's war/ ghost brigade sounds pretty interesting. i just might have to pick it up. that is if i can seem to put down some of my gaming books. i want to my void 1.1 book that's collecting dust as we speak. and the votoms rpg book is calling my name, but i really got to get back to reading novels, some how sourcebooks aren't giving my brain the tickle it needs. anywho, thanks for the suggestions. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], B. Smith daikaiju66@ wrote: I've been leery about buying anything by Dan Cragg since he got involved in the Virginia Senate election debacle. I liked the first few books of the series but the one with the neo-gladiator stuff kind of turned me off on the series. My favorite of the series is Steel Guantlet. That was a great piece of military sf. If you like military sci-fi try the Sten series by Allan Cole and Chris Bunch. I'd tell most folks to skip the first novel or read it later. It gives the back story of Sten but not as much of the stuff that made the rest of the books so great. The Tahn Wars arc begins in the third book Court Of A Thousand Suns and it's great. After the Tahn Wars there's a huge twist and the last two books of the series turn into something very, very different. Chris Bunch passed away a couple of years ago but he has three other mil sf series that he wrote solo: The Last Legion, The Shadow Warrior and Star Risk, LTD. The Last Legion and Shadow Warrior are pretty good but the gem of his solo work is Star Risk imho. It's about a small private military company that is at war with a huge rival called Cerebus Systems. It's lighthearted compared to Sten and the other series but that tone plays well because these guys and girls are supposed to be likeable rogues and it works but they are still hardcore mercenaries and they get into some pretty nasty fights. John Scalzi's The Old Man's War and The Ghost Brigades are also very, very good. It's more Forever War than Hammer's Slammers but he set up a great universe and humanity's place in it is precarious. Humans aren't the top dog, heck for some races humans are literally livestock, and Earth's populace has been kept in the dark about just how bad things are in the universe.
[scifinoir2] OT: Don Imus has been fired.
Couldn't find a link, but everyone is talking about this right now. Leslie Moonves has terminated Imus' employment immediately. No more TV, no more radio. Shares of CBS stock have gone up. One down.
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: 'Grindhouse' To Be Split in Two?
I agree. I know two guys at work who both have widescreen TVs and watch a lot of movies at home. Our conversations often include them telling me how it's taking two or three days to watch a film. They'll say things like Well, I got to this part of Lord of the Rings, but I stopped the DVD and will watch the rest this weekend. I just can't do that. -- Original message -- From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've noticed that patience these days is a lost artform. I even know a cpouple of hardcore AI fans who can't bother to watch the show, because it's too long. They'll watch the Daily Buzz the next day on UPN for the AI update. I was waffling on whether to go and see this, but this lukewarm reception it's getting publicly (so bad that Rose McGowan has been doing a second talk-show publicity run for it this morning) is driving me toward saddling up and pushing on up that five-minute-long road to the theater... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kill Bill was three hours, and Tarentino and the studio therefore split it into Kill Bill Part 1 and Kill Bill Part 2, released a few month's apart. That seems to have worked. The LOTR flicks were all three hours long, but that's rare nowadays, and I think the density of the source material more than justified it. I'm probably a bad example, because I like long movies and have no trouble with a three hour double-feature, but I can see that most people nowadays don't have the staying power. Heck, more people are deciding to skip the theatre altogether in favor of home viewing, where they can pause movies frequently. I'm old-school and love my big-screen theatre-going experience, where you more or less have to absorb the whole film at once. Nothing drives me crazier than watching a movie at home and having to pause it for bathroom breaks, cooking, phone calls, etc. -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] While I agree that three hours is too long, wasn't Kill Bill and lord of the rings long too? Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, I hear that Planet Terror isn't thought to be as good as Death Proof. I still wish they could have left them together as one movie, though i admit that a three hour length is too long. -- Original message -- From: B. Smith I better get my butt in gear and check it out before it disappears. I grew up in New Orleans and there were several Grindhouse type theaters(The Circle, The Gallo, The Carver, The Famous, The Orpheum, etc.) and I got to watch some of the same stuff that Tarantino loves so much. Unfortunately those movies were cult flicks for a reason. I get that Planet Terror is pastiche of Italian zombie gore flicks but some folks don't. Another downside to the movie is the massive shift in tone from Planet Terror to Death Proof. It seems to be throwing some folks off. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I disagree with this. I don't think the idea of a double- feature is that hard to grasp, even for youngsters who've never seen one before. Hell, I'm 43, and though I'm extremely familiar with the term, I never saw one at the theatre back in the day. I think it has more to do with whether the subject matter and marketing themselves were appealing. I think the girl with the machine-gun leg, adn the cheesy zombie shots made some people laugh, but maybe didn't excite them. People nowadays--espeically the young folk--seem to be going for that disgustingly explicit and gore-based horror that's all the rage. Stuff like Saw, Hostel, Touristas, etc. Both of these flicks are very tongue-in-cheek and self-referential. Now, I rmember the days of crap like Boggy Creek, MAcon COunty Line, The Incredible Two-Headed Transplant, etc., so I want to see them. But for those who aren't my age, and for youngsters, the lack of obvious horror gore or Kill Bill style fighting and acti on may not be a draw. Perhaps--perhaps--the combined three hour length hurt a bit of business. But I think a tweak in marketing--such as trailers shown--would be more effective. I'd hate to see the concept die just because the audience isn't hip or interested enough to get it. Besides, sometimes the movie going public just doesn't get it. That's what DVD and On Demand rentals are for. Grindhouse is gonna do very well there... -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) ovie mogul Harvey Weinstein is planning to re-release Grindhouse as two separate films - after the double-bill flopped at the box office. The film, a double-feature directed by Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez made just $11.6 million in its opening weekend in the US. Producer Weinstein is
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Don Imus has been fired.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070412/tv_nm/usa_race_imus_dc_37 The Yokozuna Of Soul [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Couldn't find a link, but everyone is talking about this right now. Leslie Moonves has terminated Imus' employment immediately. No more TV, no more radio. Shares of CBS stock have gone up. One down.
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: 'Grindhouse' To Be Split in Two?
Personally. I like long, at the end of Batman I was left wanting more. At the end of Kill Bill and Lord of the Rings I felt sated. But if you look at the attention-span of the average TV/Movie viewer, more than 90 minutes is too long. While I understand it, it does not apply to me. Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. I know two guys at work who both have widescreen TVs and watch a lot of movies at home. Our conversations often include them telling me how it's taking two or three days to watch a film. They'll say things like Well, I got to this part of Lord of the Rings, but I stopped the DVD and will watch the rest this weekend. I just can't do that. -- Original message -- From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:truthseeker_013%40yahoo.com I've noticed that patience these days is a lost artform. I even know a cpouple of hardcore AI fans who can't bother to watch the show, because it's too long. They'll watch the Daily Buzz the next day on UPN for the AI update. I was waffling on whether to go and see this, but this lukewarm reception it's getting publicly (so bad that Rose McGowan has been doing a second talk-show publicity run for it this morning) is driving me toward saddling up and pushing on up that five-minute-long road to the theater... [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net wrote: Kill Bill was three hours, and Tarentino and the studio therefore split it into Kill Bill Part 1 and Kill Bill Part 2, released a few month's apart. That seems to have worked. The LOTR flicks were all three hours long, but that's rare nowadays, and I think the density of the source material more than justified it. I'm probably a bad example, because I like long movies and have no trouble with a three hour double-feature, but I can see that most people nowadays don't have the staying power. Heck, more people are deciding to skip the theatre altogether in favor of home viewing, where they can pause movies frequently. I'm old-school and love my big-screen theatre-going experience, where you more or less have to absorb the whole film at once. Nothing drives me crazier than watching a movie at home and having to pause it for bathroom breaks, cooking, phone calls, etc. -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:tdlists%40multiculturaladvantage.com While I agree that three hours is too long, wasn't Kill Bill and lord of the rings long too? Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net wrote: yeah, I hear that Planet Terror isn't thought to be as good as Death Proof. I still wish they could have left them together as one movie, though i admit that a three hour length is too long. -- Original message -- From: B. Smith I better get my butt in gear and check it out before it disappears. I grew up in New Orleans and there were several Grindhouse type theaters(The Circle, The Gallo, The Carver, The Famous, The Orpheum, etc.) and I got to watch some of the same stuff that Tarantino loves so much. Unfortunately those movies were cult flicks for a reason. I get that Planet Terror is pastiche of Italian zombie gore flicks but some folks don't. Another downside to the movie is the massive shift in tone from Planet Terror to Death Proof. It seems to be throwing some folks off. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I disagree with this. I don't think the idea of a double- feature is that hard to grasp, even for youngsters who've never seen one before. Hell, I'm 43, and though I'm extremely familiar with the term, I never saw one at the theatre back in the day. I think it has more to do with whether the subject matter and marketing themselves were appealing. I think the girl with the machine-gun leg, adn the cheesy zombie shots made some people laugh, but maybe didn't excite them. People nowadays--espeically the young folk--seem to be going for that disgustingly explicit and gore-based horror that's all the rage. Stuff like Saw, Hostel, Touristas, etc. Both of these flicks are very tongue-in-cheek and self-referential. Now, I rmember the days of crap like Boggy Creek, MAcon COunty Line, The Incredible Two-Headed Transplant, etc., so I want to see them. But for those who aren't my age, and for youngsters, the lack of obvious horror gore or Kill Bill style fighting and acti on may not be a draw. Perhaps--perhaps--the combined three hour length hurt a bit of business. But I think a tweak in marketing--such as trailers shown--would be more effective. I'd hate to see the concept die just because the audience isn't hip or interested enough to get it. Besides, sometimes the movie going public just doesn't
Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Don Imus has been fired.
Drinks are on me at the Cyber Bar, on et tous. Brent Wodehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070412/tv_nm/usa_race_imus_dc_37 The Yokozuna Of Soul [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Couldn't find a link, but everyone is talking about this right now. Leslie Moonves has terminated Imus' employment immediately. No more TV, no more radio. Shares of CBS stock have gone up. One down. There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A Country - Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [scifinoir2] Re: 'Grindhouse' To Be Split in Two?
Can't get around that, either. Even when I waqs a kid, I had to see something all the way through, from school projects to movies. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. I know two guys at work who both have widescreen TVs and watch a lot of movies at home. Our conversations often include them telling me how it's taking two or three days to watch a film. They'll say things like Well, I got to this part of Lord of the Rings, but I stopped the DVD and will watch the rest this weekend. I just can't do that. -- Original message -- From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've noticed that patience these days is a lost artform. I even know a cpouple of hardcore AI fans who can't bother to watch the show, because it's too long. They'll watch the Daily Buzz the next day on UPN for the AI update. I was waffling on whether to go and see this, but this lukewarm reception it's getting publicly (so bad that Rose McGowan has been doing a second talk-show publicity run for it this morning) is driving me toward saddling up and pushing on up that five-minute-long road to the theater... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kill Bill was three hours, and Tarentino and the studio therefore split it into Kill Bill Part 1 and Kill Bill Part 2, released a few month's apart. That seems to have worked. The LOTR flicks were all three hours long, but that's rare nowadays, and I think the density of the source material more than justified it. I'm probably a bad example, because I like long movies and have no trouble with a three hour double-feature, but I can see that most people nowadays don't have the staying power. Heck, more people are deciding to skip the theatre altogether in favor of home viewing, where they can pause movies frequently. I'm old-school and love my big-screen theatre-going experience, where you more or less have to absorb the whole film at once. Nothing drives me crazier than watching a movie at home and having to pause it for bathroom breaks, cooking, phone calls, etc. -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] While I agree that three hours is too long, wasn't Kill Bill and lord of the rings long too? Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, I hear that Planet Terror isn't thought to be as good as Death Proof. I still wish they could have left them together as one movie, though i admit that a three hour length is too long. -- Original message -- From: B. Smith I better get my butt in gear and check it out before it disappears. I grew up in New Orleans and there were several Grindhouse type theaters(The Circle, The Gallo, The Carver, The Famous, The Orpheum, etc.) and I got to watch some of the same stuff that Tarantino loves so much. Unfortunately those movies were cult flicks for a reason. I get that Planet Terror is pastiche of Italian zombie gore flicks but some folks don't. Another downside to the movie is the massive shift in tone from Planet Terror to Death Proof. It seems to be throwing some folks off. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I disagree with this. I don't think the idea of a double- feature is that hard to grasp, even for youngsters who've never seen one before. Hell, I'm 43, and though I'm extremely familiar with the term, I never saw one at the theatre back in the day. I think it has more to do with whether the subject matter and marketing themselves were appealing. I think the girl with the machine-gun leg, adn the cheesy zombie shots made some people laugh, but maybe didn't excite them. People nowadays--espeically the young folk--seem to be going for that disgustingly explicit and gore-based horror that's all the rage. Stuff like Saw, Hostel, Touristas, etc. Both of these flicks are very tongue-in-cheek and self-referential. Now, I rmember the days of crap like Boggy Creek, MAcon COunty Line, The Incredible Two-Headed Transplant, etc., so I want to see them. But for those who aren't my age, and for youngsters, the lack of obvious horror gore or Kill Bill style fighting and acti on may not be a draw. Perhaps--perhaps--the combined three hour length hurt a bit of business. But I think a tweak in marketing--such as trailers shown--would be more effective. I'd hate to see the concept die just because the audience isn't hip or interested enough to get it. Besides, sometimes the movie going public just doesn't get it. That's what DVD and On Demand rentals are for. Grindhouse is gonna do very well there... -- Original message -- From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) ovie mogul Harvey Weinstein is planning to re-release Grindhouse as two separate films - after the double-bill flopped at the box office. The film, a
[scifinoir2] Whitaker joins Washington's next directing effort.
Whitaker joins Washington's next directing effort. by Stax April 11, 2007 - Two Best Actor winners are teaming up for the fact-based drama The Great Debaters. Forest Whitaker will star opposite Denzel Washington in the Weinstein pic, which Washington will also direct from a script by Robert Eisele. Filming begins next month in Louisiana. Oprah Winfrey's Harpo Films is producing along with Todd Black and Joe Roth. Variety reports that, in addition to helming, Washington will play a volatile coach who molds a group of students from a small black college in East Texas into an elite debate team in the 1930s that wins the right to go against Harvard's championship team. The trade adds that Whitaker will play the father of one of the students. Whitaker will also soon be seen in The Night Watchman. http://movies.ign.com/articles/779/779813p1.html Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[scifinoir2] OT: Leon quits �Cat on a Hot Tin Roof,� apparently taking Forest Whitaker with him
Interesting. The cast was a stellar one. I've seen Phyllicia Rashad in two plays here in Atlanta--Pearl Cleage's Blues for an Alabama Sky (which co-starred Tauren Blacque from Hill Street Blues) and Medea. She's great onstage, and I image Forrest would be a powerhouse as well. Kenny Leon is a legend here among Black theatre goers--well, maybe not among those who only see Tyler Perry and gospel musicals. But Leon did a lot to bring the likes of August Wilson's work to Atlanta, making people see that serious Black works can be intelligent and successful. He also directed a lot of things that weren't race-specific, like A Christmas Carol. Brother's can't skills... Leon quits Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, apparently taking Forest Whitaker with him By Wendell Brock | Thursday, April 12, 2007, 11:25 AM The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Atlanta director Kenny Leon has resigned from the highly anticipated African-American production of Tennessee Williams Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, citing artistic differences with the Broadway producer. It just wasnt working out, Leon said Thursday morning from New York, where he is in rehearsals for the Broadway run of August Wilsons Radio Golf. Leon said he was disappointed, because he had assembled an A-list cast, including Oscar winner Forest Whitaker for the role of Big Daddy; four-time Tony Award winnner Audra McDonald as Maggie the Cat and his longtime colleague Phylicia Rashad as Big Mama. Actor Anthony Mackie was to play Brick and is still said to be a candidate. I spent time talking with Forest Whitaker and Phylicia and Audra McDonald and Anthony Mackie, and I thought they would have been a great production, Leon said. But not everyone thinks the same. Meanwhile, producer Steven Byrd has hired Broadway actress and choreographer Debbie Allen to direct and still plans an October opening. Rashad, who is Allens sister, is expected to remain on board, while the part of Big Daddy has been offered to Danny Glover, a publicist for the show said Thursday. I care about the relationships I have cultivated with Forest and Phylicia and Audra and Anthony, and in terms of protecting those relationships, I thought it was best to walk away from the project, Leon said. Leon, who worked with Allen when he was head of Atlantas Alliance Theatre, said: I know Debbie and I wish her well. Under consideration for the part of Maggie are actresses Thandie Newton and Anika Noni Rose. Besides Mackie, Blair Underwood and LL Cool J have been mentioned for the part of Brick. Byrd a former investor with Goldman Sachs who now runs a private equity fund is a Broadway newcomer. Radio Golf, the final installment of Wilsons 10-play cycle about African-American life in the 20th century, is set to begin previews on April 20 and open May 8. Leon said there was no doubt in my mind that he would be working with Whitaker and the cast he had lined up for Cat in the near future. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
