Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
A dread and hatred of time is ubiquitous in Shakespeare's sonnets - even in the ones that are about love. So more than one undergrad has written papers on the themes of time and love in the sonnets ++ there are several peer reviewed journal articles on the same theme. But then time seems to be a popular trope for poets from around the world. https://www.rekhta.org/Top-20-waqt-shayari guzarne hī na dī vo raat maiñ neghaḌī par rakh diyā thā haath maiñ neWaqt, VisaalSHAHZAD AHMAD I did not want that night to end at allSo much so that I put my hand on the clock --srs On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 12:39 AM +0530, "Heather Madrone" wrote: Ashim D'Silva wrote on 10/12/18 8:45 AM October 12, 2018: > It’s well summarised in the oft misrepresented Frost poem: I often hear the claim that the poem is misrepresented, but I don't know how people who actually read the poem can misinterpret it. Or even that poetry can be misinterpreted. There's a lot there, under the hood. The reader brings their own knowledge and experience to bear, and so interpretations multiply. The poem twists and turns back on itself, now saying one thing and then, in the next breath, saying the opposite. Catch it from one angle, it seems to say one thing. Shift your perspective, and it says something else. "I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference" is the punch line, surely, and therefore the bit to quote to invoke the rest of the poem, and to prompt people to go and read it again. The roads are pretty much of a muchness, covering much the same territory, and with pretty much equal traffic. It's a nothing choice, but it's the only choice the traveler can make, and so it makes all the difference. A lot of choices are like that, and we are constrained to make just one. The process that Frost describes is universal and familiar, and I am often left wondering whether the man was a genius or a just a hack clever enough to repackage our truisms for us. (Which might be the mark of his genius.) I think the big reveal in the last stanza is the repeated "I." Like he started to end the poem one way, changed his mind, and then decided to finish with a flourish. Frost was a populist poet. He knew what the public wanted, and he tended to give it to them. Wherever his poems venture, he knew he had to tuck his readers in for the night in the last stanza. The couplet is a hard habit to break. I've been re-reading Shakespeare's sonnets. Between bouts of savoring the man's way with words, I am struck how every single one of Shakespeare's sonnets is about his implacable enemy, Time. I studied haiku for some years, and have some appreciation for how deeply wabi and sabi are ingrained in the art form. It gave me a start to recognize these deeply Zen principles in Shakespeare. I have been wondering whether you can actually write poetry without invoking them. You capture the moment, and the images, but they are gone. Any good poem makes the reader feel that loss. > *I shall be telling this with a sigh* > *Somewhere ages and ages hence:* > *Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—* > *I took the one less traveled by,* > *And that has made all the difference.* > > The first line is generally omitted, practically reversing the meaning of > the poem and proving his point. What does that sigh mean to you? Is he wistful that he no longer has that moment of choice and freedom, that he had to close down all the possibilities of the road not taken by choosing the other? Do you think he thinks he made the wrong choice? Is it a sigh of acceptance or smug satisfaction? And what do you see as his point? It seems to me that he has many, and that he is a skillful-enough juggler of words to keep them all in the air at the same time. > I do additionally object to devaluing an artistic work because it is done > for money. The story of the artist depressed and in poverty has so consumed > our collective psyche we expect artist to not be paid for their time. We > see this in the piracy of movies and music or in the promise of working for > “exposure”. There's also a sense in which this can be seen as elitist, in that only those who are independently wealthy can have true artistic freedom. Beyonce' and Taylor Swift can be true artists, but the graphic designers who create the small artistic details of our daily lives are just wage slaves. > The current art world is its own awful mix of capitalism gone mad and > exclusionary barriers of entry and so I can’t defend its excesses either. I > guess I have to remain stuck in the middle and confused. It doesn’t help > that Banksy recently both sold a piece at a record price, and then > destroyed it before the sale leading to the question of whether the > destroyed piece is worth more or less now! It shredded itself right after the sale was final, as it was unhooked from the wall. It was
Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
Srini RamaKrishnan wrote on 10/12/18 10:20 AM October 12, 2018: Now if that's not an apt use case for the Americanism, shit happens... I don't know what is :-) I came down with an acute case of appendicitis while clerking a Quaker Meeting for Worship for Business. It's an interesting experience to try to hold the state of worship for the whole gathered Meeting while your insides are exploding. I thought for a time that I could do it, that I could somehow arrive at a deep enough state of worship to subdue my rebellious innards. After an hour, I realized I wasn't enlightened enough and headed to the hospital for a more conventional cure. --hmm
Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 10:44 PM Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > It was within less than a minute after he'd sat down to 'meditate'. > > So unless he slipped into some extremely deep yogic state within seconds > after shutting his eyes .. > Now if that's not an apt use case for the Americanism, shit happens... I don't know what is :-)
Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
It was within less than a minute after he'd sat down to 'meditate'. So unless he slipped into some extremely deep yogic state within seconds after shutting his eyes .. On 12/10/18, 9:38 PM, "silklist on behalf of Srini RamaKrishnan" wrote: It's quite likely he may have been doing his meditation properly. Digestive turbulence during intense Yoga is common if the digestive tract isn't empty,
Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 9:16 PM Ashim D'Silva wrote: > The current art world is its own awful mix of capitalism gone mad and > exclusionary barriers of entry and so I can’t defend its excesses either. I > guess I have to remain stuck in the middle and confused. It doesn’t help > that Banksy recently both sold a piece at a record price, and then > destroyed it before the sale leading to the question of whether the > destroyed piece is worth more or less now! > I don't think poverty is any requirement for one who's surrendered to the art, but it's often an unfortunate outcome for one who doesn't bend to market forces or anything other than one's artistic inspiration.. Srinivasa Ramanujam was lucky to be discovered by Hardy, otherwise he'd have likely rotted away in penury and anonymity as a clerk. Whereas, Mahakavi Subramaniya Bharathi had material misfortune chase him like a pack of hungry wolves wherever he went, yet his poetic voice never trembled. In the Thiruvilayadal literature the Gods often test the great Bhaktas to see if they have the courage of their convictions. One can simply be lost in Mathematics for example, and be a great Bhakta, because in whatever is pure and undiluted with ego limitations like fear and self protection there's the divine.
Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 7:18 PM Manu Bhardwaj wrote: > I'm uncomfortable with this. If you had ended up doing the opposite, you > might then either have > - forgotten about the incident altogether, or > - rationalized it with an entirely different story > in order to make it consistent with the presence of some innate sixth sense > or feeling. > > If I were not able to explain something logically, I would conclude only > that the logic was beyond my cognitive ability. > I can see that line of thought. I've only shared a couple of incidents but my conclusions were drawn from a life time of such experiences that were internally consistent and have since reinforced their wisdom on a daily basis. Ultimately in subjective experiences, the only person who needs to buy the story is the story teller. :-)
Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 10:00 AM Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Well that was remarkably philosophical - and sincerely felt. More > power to you. > Thank you Suresh. > The one thing I remember about the Aurobindo Ashram [...] was having a gentle joke at the expense of that ostentatious 'devotee'. > That must have elicited a few laughs. It's quite likely he may have been doing his meditation properly. Digestive turbulence during intense Yoga is common if the digestive tract isn't empty, which is why serious practice is generally avoided for several hours after a meal. Meditation near Sri Aurobindo + The Mother's samadhi can be very powerful to one who is open and receptive to the energy, sending one into deeper states rather more rapidly than normal. He may not have been prepared for it. Whenever I've meditated there I've found it very easy to lose track of time, what feels like 15 minutes could be two or more hours lost in meditation. The gemstone rings can be useful and even vital for some people - they can be life savers on the spiritual path. They can also be spiritual materialism. Obviously none of this is new, villains have wandered around in the garb of holy persons since before the Ramayana, where Ravana abducts Sita disguised as a Sannyasi.
Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
It’s well summarised in the oft misrepresented Frost poem: *I shall be telling this with a sigh* *Somewhere ages and ages hence:* *Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—* *I took the one less traveled by,* *And that has made all the difference.* The first line is generally omitted, practically reversing the meaning of the poem and proving his point. I do additionally object to devaluing an artistic work because it is done for money. The story of the artist depressed and in poverty has so consumed our collective psyche we expect artist to not be paid for their time. We see this in the piracy of movies and music or in the promise of working for “exposure”. The current art world is its own awful mix of capitalism gone mad and exclusionary barriers of entry and so I can’t defend its excesses either. I guess I have to remain stuck in the middle and confused. It doesn’t help that Banksy recently both sold a piece at a record price, and then destroyed it before the sale leading to the question of whether the destroyed piece is worth more or less now! On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 3:48 PM Manu Bhardwaj wrote: > On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:59 PM Srini RamaKrishnan > wrote: > > When I didn't know as much about these things, I would be struck by some > > experiences, unable to explain them logically. Many years ago I was in > > Amsterdam, and I used to spend hours in front of a single painting by Van > > Gogh, and mere minutes in front of the works of Rembrandt. I couldn't > tell > > you exactly why then, but it was clear to me that Van Gogh put his heart > > into his paintings. Now Rembrandt was not a bad painter by any means, but > > he didn't care about his work like Van Gogh, he did care, very much, > about > > being successful. This intuition I learned much later was true when I > read > > his life history, he liked to make money off his paintings, and so cared > > about customer satisfaction. Van Gogh died in poverty. > > > I'm uncomfortable with this. If you had ended up doing the opposite, you > might then either have > - forgotten about the incident altogether, or > - rationalized it with an entirely different story > in order to make it consistent with the presence of some innate sixth sense > or feeling. > > If I were not able to explain something logically, I would conclude only > that the logic was beyond my cognitive ability. > > Manu > -- Cheerio, Ashim D’Silva Design & build www.therandomlines.com instagram.com/randomlies
Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:59 PM Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: When I didn't know as much about these things, I would be struck by some > experiences, unable to explain them logically. Many years ago I was in > Amsterdam, and I used to spend hours in front of a single painting by Van > Gogh, and mere minutes in front of the works of Rembrandt. I couldn't tell > you exactly why then, but it was clear to me that Van Gogh put his heart > into his paintings. Now Rembrandt was not a bad painter by any means, but > he didn't care about his work like Van Gogh, he did care, very much, about > being successful. This intuition I learned much later was true when I read > his life history, he liked to make money off his paintings, and so cared > about customer satisfaction. Van Gogh died in poverty. I'm uncomfortable with this. If you had ended up doing the opposite, you might then either have - forgotten about the incident altogether, or - rationalized it with an entirely different story in order to make it consistent with the presence of some innate sixth sense or feeling. If I were not able to explain something logically, I would conclude only that the logic was beyond my cognitive ability. Manu
Re: [silk] Opt-out Organ Donation Option in India
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 7:19 AM Surabhi Tomar wrote: > Does anyone know what legal hurdles can legitimately stop an Opt-out organ > donation program in India? > > An example would be having an Opt-out box on the driver's license or aadhar > card. > > Also, would there be any privacy concerns? > > Surabhi Tomar Dear Surabhi, I don't know what your reasons are for posing the question, but this occured to me. The benefits of organ donation are self evident, so I won't go into that, I don't argue it at all. I am not against organ donation, but I do feel it has to be completely voluntary without even the mildest coercion. It is a profound choice that has to be made with a certain maturity. People are emotional beings, they get attached to things they own, and one's organs are their ultimate ownership. Even the poorest man in India has at least his body to call his own. In any culture, especially in an ancient culture like India there has been a deep awareness of death and its implications. We burn the bodies, and distribute the belongings of the deceased among the poor. Nothing can be spared, even the dead person's bed and old clothes must be given away. We give away everything and burn the body because as long as such things remain it can trigger intense memories in the living, preventing them from moving on. I've seen this in many funerals, including when my father died, there was no hunger, no desire to sleep until he was rendered into the fire; and then as if a switch snapped, normalcy returned, not just in me but in every member of the family, even those not present at the cremation ground. In times before refrigeration there was no question of keeping the body around, after 4 hours it would decompose in the Indian weather, but now with refrigeration people hold onto the dead body for days prolonging their suffering, but that's a topic for another time. Something in the emotional body remains connected to the deceased as long as they remain in some form. When we cremate the body, especially as you see the searing flames there's a lot of emotional catharsis that happens, and this is especially true in India where there's no cosmetic veneer given to death. The son (usually) will take the still warm ashes and bone fragments, crush them with his bare hand, especially the large bones like the hip and femur put them in a pot and dissolve them in the nearest ocean or river. This may sound bizarre but it gives enormous closure. We luckily don't hide death like some other cultures, we want to see death first hand, the totality of it, because life and death are one movement. In this way the emotional bonds are severed instantly, but when we bring parts of the dead body alive in a new being this bond remains. One doesn't have to be a yogi to see all this, Indian cinema's potboilers have made many intense emotional dramas where the organ recipient becomes a love interest, or some other form of intense emotional entanglement starts with the stranger. This is how life works, we attach to whatever we feel a sense of ownership towards even if it doesn't make any sense. Before the copy-cats made a genre of it, whoever wrote the first such plot line will have seen this happen in real life. Humans process life at many levels, the intellect and conscious action is the smallest dimension of life. For most, especially among India's masses this unconscious illogical dimension of their life is the grandest. They don't have any self help books to fall back on, their only protection is a yogic culture that has deeply understood life. In this culture we have never been concerned only with this life, we are not a YOLO culture. We look at life and death as one big cycle, and the ultimate aspiration has always been for mukti. Memories are karma, bonds that hold us back from liberation. Whatever I've written about is only the tiniest fragment of what happens upon death, I've not gone into what is the experience of the dead, even though they are the principal participants in this, and this culture has always been aware of that dimension of life too. It would also be unfair to go into it, since most people don't experience that dimension, so there's no room for rational rejection or acceptance. Here are some press stories nevertheless on what can happen, https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-558256/I-given-young-mans-heart---started-craving-beer-Kentucky-Fried-Chicken-My-daughter-said-I-walked-like-man.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-557864/Man-given-heart-suicide-victim-marries-donors-widow-kills-exactly-way.html I only wish that anyone who wishes to impinge on this very deep culture that has understood both life and death deeply do the necessary spade work. It is too easy to only think of the grateful and joyful tears of the ones who have received the organs, and their happy faces. Their testimonies are important, but there's another side to it. Any activist, judge or civil servant who will
