Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
What is killing bees are the neonicotinoids, a type of pesticide patented by Bayer. From: Jane MacRoss Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 4:21 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar? I never feed wild birds, I observe them at the flowers - still out here in late May, hovering under them for nectar - and others darting along the verandah removing the insects spiders, and then some help themselves to dog food left in the bowl on the verandah overnight - I hear the 'ping' on the bowl of their beaks the parrots take the fruit and the kookaburras ... make enough noise but I don't know what they find here I would have thought humming birds would not have needed man manufactured sugar - isn't that what's killing the bees? Jane Subject: Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar? Their water containers in the wild are flowers, and pooled dew drops and other fresh bits of moisture that evaporate, rather than culture mold from sugar water going 'off'. L On May 25, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Alan Faulkner wrote:
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
When the sugar water ferments it produces either alcohol, and/or acetic acid. So we are wanting to avoid acetic acid formation, therefore I don't see adding it directly as a solution. Marshall On 5/25/2014 8:01 AM, Cyndi wrote: Better yet use apple cider vinegar. Cyndi On 5/25/2014 6:38 AM, 123 456 wrote: CS is okay for chickenss with sniffles. I didnt use it on an extended basis tho' Why not use a drop of Hydrogen peroxide instead if you want to be cautious? Tara On 5/25/14, Alan Faulkner ala...@gmail.com wrote: I know of someone who fed it to bees and it killed them. The theory is that it killed the bacteria in them that aid in digestion so they starved to death. But I know someone who puts a bit of H2O2 in his racing pigeons water. Alan On 2014-05-24, at 21:40 PM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/7056 - Release Date: 05/24/14
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
There are a lot of things contributing to the problems with bees. A mite named varroa was introduced a couple of decades ago, and decimated the bee populations until the feral and untreated colonies learned to deal with them. In the mean time commercial beekeepers used miticides to control them, the consequences of using an insecticide inside a beehive are not too difficult to contemplate. In addition antibiotics are often feed as well. Then you have the fungicides being applied to crops, and the pesticides, which include the neonicatoids. Although each alone can cause problems, a mixture of 2 or more of them is much worse than any one alone. Then on top of that it has been found that natural substances in nectar help the bees immune system so not only are antibiotics not needed when they are eating honey, but the bee can handle higher concentrations of the other poisons as they detoxify. So on top of all this you have beekeepers which are feeding their bees sugar syrup, with none of these substances in them, which makes them even sicker and unable to detox. The the really big commercial guys are using HF corn syrup to feed, and that over time, especially at elevated temperatures forms hydroxymethylfurfural a deadly toxin for bees. On the other hand you have the natural beekeepers. The do not treat, and never feed anything but honey if needed. Some still experience losses to the pesticides if their location is near fields of crops which are treated, or GMO engineered to be poisonous but other than that the treatment free beekeepers are seeing from 0 to maybe 10% yearly losses, which the commercial and those that are treating their bees and feeding sugar syrup are seeing from 30 to 70% losses. I am in the treatment free group myself. Marshall On 5/25/2014 7:21 PM, Jane MacRoss wrote: I never feed wild birds, I observe them at the flowers - still out here in lateiders, and then some help themselves to dog food left in the bowl on the verandah overnight - I hear the 'ping' on the bowl of their beaks the parrots take the fruit and the kookaburras ... make enough noise but I don't know what they find here May, hovering under them for nectar - and others darting along the verandah removing the insects sp I would have thought humming birds would not have needed man manufactured sugar - isn't that what's killing the bees? Jane *Subject:* Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar? Their water containers in the wild are flowers, and pooled dew drops and other fresh bits of moisture that evaporate, rather than culture mold from sugar water going 'off'. L On May 25, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Alan Faulkner wrote: No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/7060 - Release Date: 05/25/14
RE: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Thanks Marshall. That was what I was concerned about, and knowing now how it affects bees I'll stick with cleaning and changing fluid often until if/when there is evidence the hummers are fine with CS. - Walter From: Marshall [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Sun, May. 25, 2014 08:35 To: silver-list@eskimo.com; silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar? We have the same issue, and I was considering it a couple of weeks ago. However tests with bees, which also drink nectar found that they starved when fed sugar water with CS in it due to it killing their flora which are necessary for digestion. Without evidence to the contrary, I would not recommend doing it. Marshall On 5/25/2014 12:40 AM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn't turn anything up so I thought I'd ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too-please correct me if I've missed the boat). I'm not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/7056 - Release Date: 05/24/14
RE: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Yes, pesticides and a particular mite appear to be the main culprit for bees, although there are other factors as well. Bees do best fed honey, but have also done well for generations with some sugar water supplementation when flowers were scarce. With all the other issues making life difficult for them, it makes sense that honey vs. sugar water could make a significant difference for them. As for hummers, they certainly survive without being fed, but it does seem-at least in areas of the world where flowers with significant nectar are somewhat scarce-that you end up with a larger population if you make feed available each season. I'm not aware of any research or evidence to indicate sugar water (sucrose) supplementation hurts them, and anecdotal evidence seems to suggest otherwise. That said, I would expect flower nectar is best for them. They still go to flowers for nectar when a feeder is available (they show up at the feeder mostly in morning and evening when less flowers are open). And they keep scooping up small insects. They're fun to watch, and the more insect eaters around the better (no spray around here). Last year we found we had to put the cat's food away between meals to avoid feeding our yellow jacket wasp explosion (picture cat food dish crawling with 10-15 yellow jackets from dawn to dusk). The dogs would grab their hunks of fish and run, hoping to avoid the yellow jackets' company during their meal :) When unsuccessful at that, they spent more time growling and snapping at the yellow jackets than eating their food. From: moxaman [mailto:bbane...@earthlink.net] Sent: Mon, May. 26, 2014 07:27 To: silver-list@eskimo.com; silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar? What is killing bees are the neonicotinoids, a type of pesticide patented by Bayer. From: Jane MacRoss mailto:highfie...@internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 4:21 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar? I never feed wild birds, I observe them at the flowers - still out here in late May, hovering under them for nectar - and others darting along the verandah removing the insects spiders, and then some help themselves to dog food left in the bowl on the verandah overnight - I hear the 'ping' on the bowl of their beaks the parrots take the fruit and the kookaburras ... make enough noise but I don't know what they find here I would have thought humming birds would not have needed man manufactured sugar - isn't that what's killing the bees? Jane Subject: Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar? Their water containers in the wild are flowers, and pooled dew drops and other fresh bits of moisture that evaporate, rather than culture mold from sugar water going 'off'. L On May 25, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Alan Faulkner wrote:
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
CS is okay for chickenss with sniffles. I didnt use it on an extended basis tho' Why not use a drop of Hydrogen peroxide instead if you want to be cautious? Tara On 5/25/14, Alan Faulkner ala...@gmail.com wrote: I know of someone who fed it to bees and it killed them. The theory is that it killed the bacteria in them that aid in digestion so they starved to death. But I know someone who puts a bit of H2O2 in his racing pigeons water. Alan On 2014-05-24, at 21:40 PM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Better yet use apple cider vinegar. Cyndi On 5/25/2014 6:38 AM, 123 456 wrote: CS is okay for chickenss with sniffles. I didnt use it on an extended basis tho' Why not use a drop of Hydrogen peroxide instead if you want to be cautious? Tara On 5/25/14, Alan Faulkner ala...@gmail.com wrote: I know of someone who fed it to bees and it killed them. The theory is that it killed the bacteria in them that aid in digestion so they starved to death. But I know someone who puts a bit of H2O2 in his racing pigeons water. Alan On 2014-05-24, at 21:40 PM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
We have the same issue, and I was considering it a couple of weeks ago. However tests with bees, which also drink nectar found that they starved when fed sugar water with CS in it due to it killing their flora which are necessary for digestion. Without evidence to the contrary, I would not recommend doing it. Marshall On 5/25/2014 12:40 AM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn't turn anything up so I thought I'd ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too---please correct me if I've missed the boat). I'm not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/7056 - Release Date: 05/24/14
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Douglas Haack wrote: Easy solution. Clean the feeder thoroughly and regularly! I second that and would only add to not fill the feeders with more syrup than the birds will eat in 2-3 days. Even in cooler weather I don't like to let feeders go unchanged (wash out well with every fill) more than 4 days, maximum. sol --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
I, too, struggle with keeping feeders clean and mold-free, and after cleaning, rinse mine with CS, but then thoroughly wipe them dry, as I'm afraid CS could interfere with hummers' benign bacteria and enzymes. Be well, Léna On May 25, 2014, at 12:40 AM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Hmm, who washes their water containers in the wild? Al On 2014-05-25, at 10:34 AM, Lena Guyot wrote: I, too, struggle with keeping feeders clean and mold-free, and after cleaning, rinse mine with CS, but then thoroughly wipe them dry, as I'm afraid CS could interfere with hummers' benign bacteria and enzymes. Be well, Léna On May 25, 2014, at 12:40 AM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Not water, but nectar. Flowers do not produce a cup of nectar at a time to ferment over then next week.. They produce a fraction of a drop of nectar, which is taken up within hours usually by a bee, wasp, butterfly or hummingbird, so it does not have time to ferment. Marshall On 5/25/2014 2:55 PM, Alan Faulkner wrote: Hmm, who washes their water containers in the wild? Al On 2014-05-25, at 10:34 AM, Lena Guyot wrote: I, too, struggle with keeping feeders clean and mold-free, and after cleaning, rinse mine with CS, but then thoroughly wipe them dry, as I'm afraid CS could interfere with hummers' benign bacteria and enzymes. Be well, Léna On May 25, 2014, at 12:40 AM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3722/7056 - Release Date: 05/24/14
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Their water containers in the wild are flowers, and pooled dew drops and other fresh bits of moisture that evaporate, rather than culture mold from sugar water going 'off'. L On May 25, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Alan Faulkner wrote: Hmm, who washes their water containers in the wild? Al On 2014-05-25, at 10:34 AM, Lena Guyot wrote: I, too, struggle with keeping feeders clean and mold-free, and after cleaning, rinse mine with CS, but then thoroughly wipe them dry, as I'm afraid CS could interfere with hummers' benign bacteria and enzymes. Be well, Léna On May 25, 2014, at 12:40 AM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
I never feed wild birds, I observe them at the flowers - still out here in late May, hovering under them for nectar - and others darting along the verandah removing the insects spiders, and then some help themselves to dog food left in the bowl on the verandah overnight - I hear the 'ping' on the bowl of their beaks the parrots take the fruit and the kookaburras ... make enough noise but I don't know what they find here I would have thought humming birds would not have needed man manufactured sugar - isn't that what's killing the bees? Jane Subject: Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar? Their water containers in the wild are flowers, and pooled dew drops and other fresh bits of moisture that evaporate, rather than culture mold from sugar water going 'off'. L On May 25, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Alan Faulkner wrote:
CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
A quick Google didn't turn anything up so I thought I'd ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too-please correct me if I've missed the boat). I'm not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Is possible they depend upon specific intestinal flora. I would not give it to them without conclusively ruling that out. Most molds it kills. I would like to hear from people who know of lab molds that are immune to CS. Yeasts and fungi too. Jim Holmes On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Walter Anderson walter.ander...@outlook.com wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
I know of someone who fed it to bees and it killed them. The theory is that it killed the bacteria in them that aid in digestion so they starved to death. But I know someone who puts a bit of H2O2 in his racing pigeons water. Alan On 2014-05-24, at 21:40 PM, Walter Anderson wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter
Re: CSCS in hummingbird nectar?
Silver Listers, Having lived permanently in CA and enjoyed the antics of humming birds for some years at the feeders we all put up, here is my comment. Putting CS into the feeder fluid, i.e. probably sugar water, will stop the 'Brownian movement' of the charged Ag Ions. Thus probably reducing and negating any benefit of the CS. Just my theory! Easy solution. Clean the feeder thoroughly and regularly! We don't have HB's down here in the South Pacific and I do miss their territorial aggressive antics, trying to keep other Hummers from the good juice! I've seen them lock their tiny almost clawed feet with an opponent and fall/tumbling like tiny dueling eagles to earth, as they battled! Very entertaining! In SILvation, Douglas H On Sunday, 25 May 2014 2:41 PM, Walter Anderson walter.ander...@outlook.com wrote: A quick Google didn’t turn anything up so I thought I’d ask the list: Do you have any experience or other knowledge to indicate whether CS would be helpful/harmful/neutral do hummingbirds? The reason I ask is mould can be a problem in hummingbird feeders and I was thinking CS might help stop that (not sure on this either, just thought it might inhibit mould too—please correct me if I’ve missed the boat). I’m not sure what kind of digestive system hummingbirds have (their diet is nectar and insects) and whether CS would be compatible with their needs or not. All feedback/ideas are welcome. - Walter
