Re: Crowd FX Help
Thanks Guillaume, Please share the scene file that you did, so that I can go through it and get some ideas to solve it. -- Regards, Debdas Mohanty
Re: Crowd FX Help
On 01/08/2012 15:12, Guillaume Laforge wrote: Hello Julian, It sounds like a known bug reported by Steven Caron about extreme slowdown when adding new actor sources. It was fixed in 2013SP1 (several optimization in the scene graph validation and topology update were done). Hi Guillaume, Thanks for the quick response. Yes, we're on SP1 (build 11.1.57)...and the slowdown is quite dramatic. Cheers, Julian
RE: Crowd FX Help
Hi You don't need to be on support to report a bug. http://wp.me/powV4-1Z3 From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge Sent: August-01-12 12:10 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help Too bad :(. If you've got access to support, please send a repro scene! Did you try to delete the simulated ICETree and then re-generate all the actions (from the Apply Action in the CrowdFX Actor Proxy PPG) ? It would re-create a new simulated ICETree and so could fix the problem (but you will need to re-do any edit you made in the original Tree...). On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Julian Johnson jul...@exch.demon.co.ukmailto:jul...@exch.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/2012 15:12, Guillaume Laforge wrote: Hello Julian, It sounds like a known bug reported by Steven Caron about extreme slowdown when adding new actor sources. It was fixed in 2013SP1 (several optimization in the scene graph validation and topology update were done). Hi Guillaume, Thanks for the quick response. Yes, we're on SP1 (build 11.1.57)...and the slowdown is quite dramatic. Cheers, Julian attachment: winmail.dat
Re: Crowd FX Help
i dont recall this bug being addressed in 2013 SP1, but i may be wrong... @julian, i got to the point where i was adding all the characters i needed to an empty scene and updating this, then copy pasting graphs to rebuild the scene. but even in a simple scene eventually screeches to a halt. being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Guillaume Laforge guillaume.lafo...@autodesk.com wrote: Hello Julian, It sounds like a known bug reported by Steven Caron about extreme slowdown when adding new actor sources. It was fixed in 2013SP1 (several optimization in the scene graph validation and topology update were done). Are you on SP1? Thanks, Guillaume -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Julian Johnson Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:50 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Crowd FX Help I'm struggling with extreme slowdowns and erratic actions in CrowdFX. Specifically, when I reload a scene and then try and add new actor sources a) the new actor source takes ages to load and b) often the new source's animations are somehow corrupted with either a weird animation cycle, stuttering or a permanent static pose. These same cycles work fine in solo scenes. If I recreate the scene from scratch everything works fine but as soon as I quit and reload it seems like from that point onwards I can't really add/remove actors or change actions without some of the behaviours above. I think it seems worse with actors that have been unloaded and reloaded (using Get From Scene). The only solution I can think of is to script the building of the whole scene from scratch each time. Has anyone else experienced this or found any workarounds? Julian
Re: Crowd FX Help
On 01/08/2012 18:09, Steven Caron wrote: i dont recall this bug being addressed in 2013 SP1, but i may be wrong... @julian, i got to the point where i was adding all the characters i needed to an empty scene and updating this, then copy pasting graphs to rebuild the scene. but even in a simple scene eventually screeches to a halt. being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Thanks Steven, I think I'd need to do the same as you. Did you find you had problems simply adding new Actors to an established crowd? I not only get the ultra long load times but it quite often ends with: # ERROR : CrowdSkinningNode: 428$Access to a custom ICE node input port failed. Again, this only happens if I reload an existing crowd scene. The same model adds fine provided I don't close and reload the scene. It also works properly in a neutral scene on it's own... Cheers, Julian
Re: Crowd FX Help
i finished all my shots with crowdfx even with the issues. your actor geo and rig might be more complex then the pedestrian so i would get those in there asap to get an idea of the speed. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Hey Guys ! ** ** I've been following your discussion and now I'm scared ! I just started a Crowd sim last Monday for a project, using CrowdFX on 2013 Sp1. ** ** Everything is going fine for the moment as I am using the Default pedestrian to test and build my sim. I plan to replace the pedestrian with our own actors as soon as they are ready. Will I be able to get a result in a reasonable amount of time with the tricks you described earlier (which for the moment I'm not sure I understand all but I guess I will, as I get more accustomed to the tool) ? Or is it simply a NO GO because of the issues ? I don't want to get too deep in the process and discover I have to find another solution altogether. ** ** Your opinions would be appreciated, ** ** Thx ! ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** *Luc Girard // SHED* artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM ** ** prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com ** ** *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron *Sent:* August-01-12 2:21 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Crowd FX Help ** ** i got various errors that i can't remember but that error i definitely haven't seen before. animations getting broken like you mentioned i did encounter but it was usually just an error i had where my animations were being improperly loaded in the ice graph. sometimes i just ran get actions again and it re wires them. others i realized my graph was using actorID to set data which no longer is correct since i removed added the actor and the IDs changed. ** ** i haven't used crowdfx in a bit so my memory is a big foggy, please hammer on it and log all the issues you can. i hope to get back to crowdfx in the future and see it has improved :) ** ** s ** ** On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Julian Johnson jul...@exch.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/2012 18:09, Steven Caron wrote: i dont recall this bug being addressed in 2013 SP1, but i may be wrong... @julian, i got to the point where i was adding all the characters i needed to an empty scene and updating this, then copy pasting graphs to rebuild the scene. but even in a simple scene eventually screeches to a halt. being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Thanks Steven, I think I'd need to do the same as you. Did you find you had problems simply adding new Actors to an established crowd? I not only get the ultra long load times but it quite often ends with: # ERROR : CrowdSkinningNode: 428$Access to a custom ICE node input port failed. Again, this only happens if I reload an existing crowd scene. The same model adds fine provided I don't close and reload the scene. It also works properly in a neutral scene on it's own... Cheers, Julian ** **
RE: Crowd FX Help
Thx for your input.. I'm having fun with the tool so far so I would be bummed to have to find another solution. Your said this earlier being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Can you expand more about this with a little more details plz ? I'm not quite sure which data and which external format you are referring to... sorry newb here ;) thx a lot ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 3:08 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i finished all my shots with crowdfx even with the issues. your actor geo and rig might be more complex then the pedestrian so i would get those in there asap to get an idea of the speed. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Hey Guys ! I've been following your discussion and now I'm scared ! I just started a Crowd sim last Monday for a project, using CrowdFX on 2013 Sp1. Everything is going fine for the moment as I am using the Default pedestrian to test and build my sim. I plan to replace the pedestrian with our own actors as soon as they are ready. Will I be able to get a result in a reasonable amount of time with the tricks you described earlier (which for the moment I'm not sure I understand all but I guess I will, as I get more accustomed to the tool) ? Or is it simply a NO GO because of the issues ? I don't want to get too deep in the process and discover I have to find another solution altogether. Your opinions would be appreciated, Thx ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 tel:514%20849-1555 F 514 849-5025 tel:514%20849-5025 http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 2:21 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i got various errors that i can't remember but that error i definitely haven't seen before. animations getting broken like you mentioned i did encounter but it was usually just an error i had where my animations were being improperly loaded in the ice graph. sometimes i just ran get actions again and it re wires them. others i realized my graph was using actorID to set data which no longer is correct since i removed added the actor and the IDs changed. i haven't used crowdfx in a bit so my memory is a big foggy, please hammer on it and log all the issues you can. i hope to get back to crowdfx in the future and see it has improved :) s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Julian Johnson jul...@exch.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/2012 18:09, Steven Caron wrote: i dont recall this bug being addressed in 2013 SP1, but i may be wrong... @julian, i got to the point where i was adding all the characters i needed to an empty scene and updating this, then copy pasting graphs to rebuild the scene. but even in a simple scene eventually screeches to a halt. being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Thanks Steven, I think I'd need to do the same as you. Did you find you had problems simply adding new Actors to an established crowd? I not only get the ultra long load times but it quite often ends with: # ERROR : CrowdSkinningNode: 428$Access to a custom ICE node input port failed. Again, this only happens if I reload an existing crowd scene. The same model adds fine provided I don't close and reload the scene. It also works properly in a neutral scene on it's own... Cheers, Julian
Re: Crowd FX Help
its not a current feature, its a suggestion i have sent to softimage but also was going to be the basis for my own customizations to crowdfx to get around these issues. one could explore caching the action sources to icecache and loading them back in but thats only part of the problem from what i understand. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Thx for your input.. I'm having fun with the tool so far so I would be bummed to have to find another solution. ** ** Your said this earlier being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Can you expand more about this with a little more details plz ? I'm not quite sure which data and which external format you are referring to... sorry newb here ;) ** ** thx a lot ! ** ** ** ** *Luc Girard // SHED* artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM ** ** prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com ** ** *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron *Sent:* August-01-12 3:08 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Crowd FX Help ** ** i finished all my shots with crowdfx even with the issues. your actor geo and rig might be more complex then the pedestrian so i would get those in there asap to get an idea of the speed. ** ** s ** ** On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Hey Guys ! I've been following your discussion and now I'm scared ! I just started a Crowd sim last Monday for a project, using CrowdFX on 2013 Sp1. Everything is going fine for the moment as I am using the Default pedestrian to test and build my sim. I plan to replace the pedestrian with our own actors as soon as they are ready. Will I be able to get a result in a reasonable amount of time with the tricks you described earlier (which for the moment I'm not sure I understand all but I guess I will, as I get more accustomed to the tool) ? Or is it simply a NO GO because of the issues ? I don't want to get too deep in the process and discover I have to find another solution altogether. Your opinions would be appreciated, Thx ! *Luc Girard // SHED* artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Caron *Sent:* August-01-12 2:21 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Crowd FX Help i got various errors that i can't remember but that error i definitely haven't seen before. animations getting broken like you mentioned i did encounter but it was usually just an error i had where my animations were being improperly loaded in the ice graph. sometimes i just ran get actions again and it re wires them. others i realized my graph was using actorID to set data which no longer is correct since i removed added the actor and the IDs changed. i haven't used crowdfx in a bit so my memory is a big foggy, please hammer on it and log all the issues you can. i hope to get back to crowdfx in the future and see it has improved :) s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Julian Johnson jul...@exch.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/2012 18:09, Steven Caron wrote: i dont recall this bug being addressed in 2013 SP1, but i may be wrong... @julian, i got to the point where i was adding all the characters i needed to an empty scene and updating this, then copy pasting graphs to rebuild the scene. but even in a simple scene eventually screeches to a halt. being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Thanks Steven, I think I'd need to do the same as you. Did you find you had problems simply adding new Actors to an established crowd? I not only get the ultra long load times but it quite often ends with: # ERROR : CrowdSkinningNode: 428$Access to a custom ICE node input port failed. Again, this only happens if I reload an existing crowd scene. The same model adds fine provided I don't close and reload the scene. It also works properly in a neutral scene on it's own... Cheers, Julian ** **
RE: Crowd FX Help
Basically what's needed is an ASCII/text scene file format so we can modify not just crowds, but anything in the scene as long as the edits conform to specs. Need the same for models and other data types. Sorely needed and is more than long overdue. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 12:42 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help its not a current feature, its a suggestion i have sent to softimage but also was going to be the basis for my own customizations to crowdfx to get around these issues. one could explore caching the action sources to icecache and loading them back in but thats only part of the problem from what i understand. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.commailto:l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Thx for your input.. I'm having fun with the tool so far so I would be bummed to have to find another solution. Your said this earlier being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Can you expand more about this with a little more details plz ? I'm not quite sure which data and which external format you are referring to... sorry newb here ;) thx a lot ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555tel:514%20849-1555 F 514 849-5025tel:514%20849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COMhttp://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.commailto:l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 3:08 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i finished all my shots with crowdfx even with the issues. your actor geo and rig might be more complex then the pedestrian so i would get those in there asap to get an idea of the speed. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.commailto:l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Hey Guys ! I've been following your discussion and now I'm scared ! I just started a Crowd sim last Monday for a project, using CrowdFX on 2013 Sp1. Everything is going fine for the moment as I am using the Default pedestrian to test and build my sim. I plan to replace the pedestrian with our own actors as soon as they are ready. Will I be able to get a result in a reasonable amount of time with the tricks you described earlier (which for the moment I'm not sure I understand all but I guess I will, as I get more accustomed to the tool) ? Or is it simply a NO GO because of the issues ? I don't want to get too deep in the process and discover I have to find another solution altogether. Your opinions would be appreciated, Thx ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555tel:514%20849-1555 F 514 849-5025tel:514%20849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COMhttp://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.commailto:l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 2:21 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i got various errors that i can't remember but that error i definitely haven't seen before. animations getting broken like you mentioned i did encounter but it was usually just an error i had where my animations were being improperly loaded in the ice graph. sometimes i just ran get actions again and it re wires them. others i realized my graph was using actorID to set data which no longer is correct since i removed added the actor and the IDs changed. i haven't used crowdfx in a bit so my memory is a big foggy, please hammer on it and log all the issues you can. i hope to get back to crowdfx in the future and see it has improved :) s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Julian Johnson jul...@exch.demon.co.ukmailto:jul...@exch.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/2012 18:09, Steven Caron wrote: i dont recall this bug being addressed in 2013 SP1, but i may be wrong... @julian, i got to the point where i was adding all the characters i needed to an empty scene and updating this, then copy pasting graphs to rebuild the scene. but even in a simple scene eventually screeches to a halt. being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Thanks Steven, I think I'd need to do the same as you. Did you find you had problems simply adding new
Re: Crowd FX Help
Is there any room for an Alembic based solution? It isn't text but it is great at storing deforming meshes or animated bone hierarchies and we can write any type of importer or direct rendering solution. -ben On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: Basically what’s needed is an ASCII/text scene file format so we can modify not just crowds, but anything in the scene as long as the edits conform to specs. Need the same for models and other data types. Sorely needed and is more than long overdue. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 12:42 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help its not a current feature, its a suggestion i have sent to softimage but also was going to be the basis for my own customizations to crowdfx to get around these issues. one could explore caching the action sources to icecache and loading them back in but thats only part of the problem from what i understand. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Thx for your input.. I'm having fun with the tool so far so I would be bummed to have to find another solution. Your said this earlier being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Can you expand more about this with a little more details plz ? I'm not quite sure which data and which external format you are referring to... sorry newb here ;) thx a lot ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 3:08 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i finished all my shots with crowdfx even with the issues. your actor geo and rig might be more complex then the pedestrian so i would get those in there asap to get an idea of the speed. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Hey Guys ! I've been following your discussion and now I'm scared ! I just started a Crowd sim last Monday for a project, using CrowdFX on 2013 Sp1. Everything is going fine for the moment as I am using the Default pedestrian to test and build my sim. I plan to replace the pedestrian with our own actors as soon as they are ready. Will I be able to get a result in a reasonable amount of time with the tricks you described earlier (which for the moment I'm not sure I understand all but I guess I will, as I get more accustomed to the tool) ? Or is it simply a NO GO because of the issues ? I don't want to get too deep in the process and discover I have to find another solution altogether. Your opinions would be appreciated, Thx ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 2:21 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i got various errors that i can't remember but that error i definitely haven't seen before. animations getting broken like you mentioned i did encounter but it was usually just an error i had where my animations were being improperly loaded in the ice graph. sometimes i just ran get actions again and it re wires them. others i realized my graph was using actorID to set data which no longer is correct since i removed added the actor and the IDs changed. i haven't used crowdfx in a bit so my memory is a big foggy, please hammer on it and log all the issues you can. i hope to get back to crowdfx in the future and see it has improved :) s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Julian Johnson jul...@exch.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/2012 18:09, Steven Caron wrote: i dont recall this bug being addressed in 2013 SP1, but i may be wrong... @julian, i got to the point where i was adding all the characters i needed to an empty scene and updating this, then copy pasting graphs to rebuild the scene. but even in a simple scene eventually screeches to a halt. being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Thanks Steven, I think I'd need to do the same as you. Did you find you had problems simply adding new Actors to an established crowd? I not only get the ultra long load times but it quite often ends
RE: Crowd FX Help
Alembic is essentially point caching, no? May work for crowds and particles, but for us what we really need access to is shader parameters, partition settings, which models are referenced, custom properties/operators deployed in the scene, animation data, etc... Alembic wouldn't address that stuff. Matt -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Ben Houston Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 1:51 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help Is there any room for an Alembic based solution? It isn't text but it is great at storing deforming meshes or animated bone hierarchies and we can write any type of importer or direct rendering solution. -ben On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: Basically what’s needed is an ASCII/text scene file format so we can modify not just crowds, but anything in the scene as long as the edits conform to specs. Need the same for models and other data types. Sorely needed and is more than long overdue. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 12:42 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help its not a current feature, its a suggestion i have sent to softimage but also was going to be the basis for my own customizations to crowdfx to get around these issues. one could explore caching the action sources to icecache and loading them back in but thats only part of the problem from what i understand. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Thx for your input.. I'm having fun with the tool so far so I would be bummed to have to find another solution. Your said this earlier being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Can you expand more about this with a little more details plz ? I'm not quite sure which data and which external format you are referring to... sorry newb here ;) thx a lot ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 3:08 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i finished all my shots with crowdfx even with the issues. your actor geo and rig might be more complex then the pedestrian so i would get those in there asap to get an idea of the speed. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Hey Guys ! I've been following your discussion and now I'm scared ! I just started a Crowd sim last Monday for a project, using CrowdFX on 2013 Sp1. Everything is going fine for the moment as I am using the Default pedestrian to test and build my sim. I plan to replace the pedestrian with our own actors as soon as they are ready. Will I be able to get a result in a reasonable amount of time with the tricks you described earlier (which for the moment I'm not sure I understand all but I guess I will, as I get more accustomed to the tool) ? Or is it simply a NO GO because of the issues ? I don't want to get too deep in the process and discover I have to find another solution altogether. Your opinions would be appreciated, Thx ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 2:21 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i got various errors that i can't remember but that error i definitely haven't seen before. animations getting broken like you mentioned i did encounter but it was usually just an error i had where my animations were being improperly loaded in the ice graph. sometimes i just ran get actions again and it re wires them. others i realized my graph was using actorID to set data which no longer is correct since i removed added the actor and the IDs changed. i haven't used crowdfx in a bit so my memory is a big foggy, please hammer on it and log all the issues you can. i hope to get back to crowdfx in the future and see it has improved :) s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Julian Johnson jul...@exch.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/08/2012 18:09, Steven Caron wrote: i dont recall this bug being
Re: Crowd FX Help
@ben, yes i think alembic has a use here for crowds not for matt's suggestion about the softimage scene file format. email me and i can send you my thoughts on this. On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: Alembic is essentially point caching, no? May work for crowds and particles, but for us what we really need access to is shader parameters, partition settings, which models are referenced, custom properties/operators deployed in the scene, animation data, etc... Alembic wouldn't address that stuff. Matt -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Ben Houston Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 1:51 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help Is there any room for an Alembic based solution? It isn't text but it is great at storing deforming meshes or animated bone hierarchies and we can write any type of importer or direct rendering solution. -ben On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: Basically what’s needed is an ASCII/text scene file format so we can modify not just crowds, but anything in the scene as long as the edits conform to specs. Need the same for models and other data types. Sorely needed and is more than long overdue. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 12:42 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help its not a current feature, its a suggestion i have sent to softimage but also was going to be the basis for my own customizations to crowdfx to get around these issues. one could explore caching the action sources to icecache and loading them back in but thats only part of the problem from what i understand. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Thx for your input.. I'm having fun with the tool so far so I would be bummed to have to find another solution. Your said this earlier being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Can you expand more about this with a little more details plz ? I'm not quite sure which data and which external format you are referring to... sorry newb here ;) thx a lot ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 3:08 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i finished all my shots with crowdfx even with the issues. your actor geo and rig might be more complex then the pedestrian so i would get those in there asap to get an idea of the speed. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Hey Guys ! I've been following your discussion and now I'm scared ! I just started a Crowd sim last Monday for a project, using CrowdFX on 2013 Sp1. Everything is going fine for the moment as I am using the Default pedestrian to test and build my sim. I plan to replace the pedestrian with our own actors as soon as they are ready. Will I be able to get a result in a reasonable amount of time with the tricks you described earlier (which for the moment I'm not sure I understand all but I guess I will, as I get more accustomed to the tool) ? Or is it simply a NO GO because of the issues ? I don't want to get too deep in the process and discover I have to find another solution altogether. Your opinions would be appreciated, Thx ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 2:21 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i got various errors that i can't remember but that error i definitely haven't seen before. animations getting broken like you mentioned i did encounter but it was usually just an error i had where my animations were being improperly loaded in the ice graph. sometimes i just ran get actions again and it re wires them. others i realized my graph was using actorID to set data which no longer is correct since i removed added
RE: Crowd FX Help
Generally speaking, softimage has steered towards forcing everything through the SDK inside the application. So getting a proper API to read/write an external file is probably not gonna happen. There are a million ways to skin this cat. Granted it'll take more disc space and take longer to read a text/ASCII file than a binary equivalent, but that doesn't mean it will be slow. How data is represented can have a large impact towards performance. I have my own internal XML file format for the purpose of transferring data between versions of softimage. The files are huge on disc and loaded with bloat, but they can still be read/written quite fast. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 2:10 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help sure, the whole ascii scene file format is desirable but that feature doesn't change how i want to work with crowdfx nor does it address the issue with updating assets that are already connected to crowdfx. i dont want to have to close softimage, edit my file, then re open the file in order to see an updated crowdfx actor or an action used by the actor. and since we are talking about speed, i would prefer binary format as long as it had a proper api to read and write that format. this could be icecache for all i care, as long as i dont have to create my own routines for reading and writing the format. On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.commailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: Basically what's needed is an ASCII/text scene file format so we can modify not just crowds, but anything in the scene as long as the edits conform to specs. Need the same for models and other data types. Sorely needed and is more than long overdue. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 12:42 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help its not a current feature, its a suggestion i have sent to softimage but also was going to be the basis for my own customizations to crowdfx to get around these issues. one could explore caching the action sources to icecache and loading them back in but thats only part of the problem from what i understand. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.commailto:l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Thx for your input.. I'm having fun with the tool so far so I would be bummed to have to find another solution. Your said this earlier being able to use a external format to store data like this and so it can be updated without interacting with a live simulation is key. Can you expand more about this with a little more details plz ? I'm not quite sure which data and which external format you are referring to... sorry newb here ;) thx a lot ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555tel:514%20849-1555 F 514 849-5025tel:514%20849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COMhttp://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que mon nouveau courriel est le: l...@shedmtl.commailto:l...@shedmtl.com From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron Sent: August-01-12 3:08 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Crowd FX Help i finished all my shots with crowdfx even with the issues. your actor geo and rig might be more complex then the pedestrian so i would get those in there asap to get an idea of the speed. s On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Luc Girard l...@shedmtl.commailto:l...@shedmtl.com wrote: Hey Guys ! I've been following your discussion and now I'm scared ! I just started a Crowd sim last Monday for a project, using CrowdFX on 2013 Sp1. Everything is going fine for the moment as I am using the Default pedestrian to test and build my sim. I plan to replace the pedestrian with our own actors as soon as they are ready. Will I be able to get a result in a reasonable amount of time with the tricks you described earlier (which for the moment I'm not sure I understand all but I guess I will, as I get more accustomed to the tool) ? Or is it simply a NO GO because of the issues ? I don't want to get too deep in the process and discover I have to find another solution altogether. Your opinions would be appreciated, Thx ! Luc Girard // SHED artiste 3D 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555tel:514%20849-1555 F 514 849-5025tel:514%20849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COMhttp://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM prenez note que
