Re: [Softwires] Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official way forward

2012-04-26 Thread christian.jacquenet
Chairs, ADs, I regret this decision. *Whatever* the results of the poll, your text below explicitly suggests a discrimination between voters. Basically, you seem to distinguish between people who are entitled to vote because they have supposedly participated to the stateless specification

Re: [Softwires] Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official way forward

2012-04-26 Thread mohamed.boucadair
Dear all, I personally regret this decision and reject the justifications provided. If you don't want people to contribute and express their opinion, it is easy: make it a close community. If you insist to ignore what expressed the majority of individuals who participated to the poll, may I

Re: [Softwires] Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official way forward

2012-04-26 Thread Mark Townsley
Because of the history of MAP and 4rd-U, we will designate independent teams of volunteer reviewers to advise the working group about the state of the document sets. Each set will be reviewed by an independent team who are not authors of the MAP and 4rd-U documents. Each review team will

Re: [Softwires] Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official way forward

2012-04-26 Thread Edwin Cordeiro
I'm new to the group, but I made my vote because I have studied both solutions. I was unable to find any running code for 4rd-U that I could test and verify, while I was able to do that with MAP. I voted based on the quote about the IETF from David Clark: We reject kings, presidents and voting.

Re: [Softwires] Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official way forward

2012-04-26 Thread Jan Zorz @ go6.si
On 4/26/12 11:50 AM, Mark Townsley wrote: Perhaps we would have been better off with the coin toss. +1 bingo. Cheers, Jan P.S: I'll not waste more bits on this topic as it's apparently a waste of bandwidth :) P.P.S: Should we deprecate RFC6346?

Re: [Softwires] Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official way forward

2012-04-26 Thread Behcet Sarikaya
Hi Jan, P.P.S: Should we deprecate RFC6346? A+P is in MAP T, MAP E and 4rd-U. I don't understand why you are worried about it? Having said that I for one think that A+P should be restricted to the CPEs. Otherwise you are creating another NAT. Regards, Behcet

Re: [Softwires] Sorry for being a noise generator, inflating the results. Re: Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official way forward

2012-04-26 Thread Joel M. Halpern
If I may, it seems to me that several of these replies miss some important points in the message from the chairs. 1) It became clear during the WG poll that the documents were not complete. This is not a bad thing. We need to finish them. 2) The poll did indicate that there is interest in

Re: [Softwires] Sorry for being a noise generator, inflating the results. Re: Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official way forward

2012-04-26 Thread Maoke
the problems here are: 1. a lot of people were hurt by the chairs, IMHO, disparaging language. wording like inflate generate noise is unfair and impolite. 2. it has been well known that documents were not complete. it was not needed to make a poll to indicate it. they are not complete != they are