Where I was going with this was that a hanger has to be listed for the use
of supporting sch. ? steel pipe (in this case), not necessarily specifically
sprinkler pipe. Then by that you are in essence engineering that hanger
to be used with sprinkler pipe, thus the 5x So now what you have is a
MY general feeling is that most, if not all, AHJ's are not going to buy
that logic. To me Listed means approved for use in Fire Protection Service
or certified to meet the requirements of some NFPA Standard by some
organization recognized or authorized to do such. For example If I could
persuade
Commentary in 2007 handbook states, The number of sprinklers to be
calculated on a branch line is unclear, but using the rule for 1.2 times
the square root of the design area would seem appropriate, even if not
explicitly stated in NFPA 13.
Scott
(763) 425-1001 Office
(612) 759-0796 Cell
Please do, I agree that more depth needs to be put to this subject of
listing.
Ron
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Minkel
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 10:10 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Listed
MY general
Sure, I agree with you John and your explanation goes into greater depth
than I can afford to expend so I am grateful for that. I'm just a grunt, I
do the design, my bottom line is that split-ring hangers are not Listed in
the sense of NFPA-13, 2002 9.1.1.4.1.
Bill Minkel, Designer
Member NFPA
Standpipe in each stair, interconnected at bottom, FHV at each intermediate
landing, one FDC, until Steve gets in and tells me I'm wong.
If by zone you're thinking of a high-rise, you're not going to need
zones in a 6-story.
But, in advance, What Steve says.
glc
-Original Message-
Well, I think its 75' tall or having characteristics that require a fire be
fought internally.
Standpipe zones are vertical, not horizontal. And just because you're 80'
high doesn't mean you have to have zones- but we don't see a lot of high
rise work in central PA. hence my deferring to
Zones are a vertical separation between standpipes with water supply
connections for each. Your application will be a single vertical zone with 4
standpipes. If it's not classified as a high-rise, you will need one FDC,
arranged so that it will charge all of the standpipes, i.e. upstream of
If it's a high-rise, you'll need two FDC's, but it will still be a single zone
as George says. As for deferring, all I can say is give him room on the
hairpins.
My opinion only ...
Steve Leyton
Away from the office - sent from my BlackBerry
-Original Message-
From: George Church
The monitoring of a high pressure is not in NFPA 13 or any other NFPA
Pamphlet except in NFPA 72, and the NFPA 13 Committee has never seen fit
to put it in NFPA 13. I have never met anyone that could tell me why it
was in NFPA 72.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One instance would be if you had a stair shaft that had two exit doors on
each floor, one opposite the other. One door led into a zone on one side
of the star and the other door led into a zone on the other side of the
star. These two zones would be separated with a rated firewall.
Just one of
Just for your info. Reliable still makes a Sealing Concealer with a
gasket but it is not quick response or FM Approved. Check the Reliable
website www.reliablesprinkler.com
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Cabral
Sent:
I don't agree that the situation you describe would constitute a
different zone.
The definition of zone in NFPA-14, 3.3.13, indicates it to be a vertical
subdivision of a standpipe, determined by the pressure limitations of
the system components.
More guidance is provided in the annex,
What Ken says.
Your standpipe load with be either 1000 GPM or 1250, depending on fully
sprinklered or not.
Make sure you perform standpipe hydraulics and size your FDC and supply
accordingly.
I assume the standpipes are 6.
Tom Duross
I don't agree that the situation you describe would
Why would you need a 6 standpipe for a 6 storey building?
Tony
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Duross
Sent: November 5, 2007 5:09 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Standpipe Zones
What Ken says.
Your standpipe
Try getting 1000 GPM at 100 PSI out of a three 2 1/2 FDV's through a
siamese and a 4 standpipe up 75' with no more than 150/175 at the FDC.
That's why.
Tom
Why would you need a 6 standpipe for a 6 storey building?
Tony
What Ken says.
Your standpipe load with be either 1000 GPM or 1250,
For me this is a silly question because it means considering a
smaller design area but I'll ask it anyway in case there is something
I am missing. This is a light hazard situation where the ceiling, if
you can call it that, is above 20 feet and it drives the sprinkler
spacing to 5' by 10'.
Assuming a wet system, you are right, minimum 30 heads. You could use small
orifice sprinklers that might help in your situation.
Tony
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan Seidel
Sent: November 5, 2007 8:46 PM
To:
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