Yeah, the systems were shut off by the new owner and the open spaces are
unheated and a few rented out- to plastic furniture storage...
(Alcoa plant, Lebanon, PA)
glc
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Cabral
Sent: Saturday, December
Dear All,
I'm looking for an explicit literature reference, showing how Fire
Pump+Jockey Pump+Wet Alarm Valve are connected (piped) all together, as a
combined riser diagram, based on NFPA or FM,
For instance, if you look up NFPA 20, in A-2-19.3 you will notice that pump
connection
Anyone have a theory why uncartoned unexpanded plastics doesn't follow the
pressure patterns of everything else. In all other cases outside this the
smaller the orifice the larger the pressure.
For example 25' storage ESFR 25 - 50 psi, ESFR 14 - 50 psi, ESFR 17 - 35
psi. Slight changes as
I can´t find your numbers.
I think what you are referring to is: 2007 NFPA 13, Table 17.2.3.1
but for uncartoned (exposed) unexpanded,
the pressures and K-factors do not match
your quotations at the 25 ft storage height.
the pressures and K-factors come close to
matching -- for cartoned
Dear Craig,
I checked the web site, but couldn't find something with reference to FP+JP
connection, there is just the fire water mains feed configuration.
So I'm still looking for...
Thanks for yr interest...
Aydin
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
Chris,
The simple reason is that the test for K25s was run at 50 psi because
the manufacturer wanted a success and there was no previous data. The
test could be re-run at a lower pressure anytime somebody wants to to
risk the money it would cost.
K25 applications are based on individual
Joe-
These words, and the time bombs we can plant while being right or
compliant should be required to be memorized by large groups of us;
including ourselves as contractors, your insurance side of the house,
AHJ/Inspectors, and PE's who assume anything specified to less than 3
decimal places is
What exactly are you trying to find?
There are drawings of fire pump arrangements by several pump manufacturers and
interior sprinkler system arrangements as Viking has.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box
I was reading from the cut sheet, technically FM criteria. NFPA according
to the cut sheet there is no protection scheme for the K25. Even in the
table you reference there is no ESFR 25 for this.
As far as flows 25's = 178gpm, 17's = 99.4pgm and 14's 99 gpm. So I can go
along with the
Table 17.2.3.1 DOES reference the K25
for your case, uncartoned (exposed)
unexpanded plastic. look at
25 ft storage (your specification)
at 40 ft storage height. (per my reference).
The flows in that NFPA row
goes as you shows below.
I think the reason the K25 is required to
thrown down so much
The main point James has made for class I-IV, is that the lower end of the
curve, may actually work most of the time, but as soon as you try to rise up
the curve the greater the risk of failure. (Tyco has this nice test facility
where he can play, and see things that have not been tested for FM
Thom-
If you're a contractor- and I know you don't just play one on TV :)-
You're a risk-taker. In this litigious society, you can be held liable for
meeting the adopted standard, but not applying a newer code. Or, for that
matter, the reverse. So even with staying within the boundaries of
Before you get too excited about the engineering process and testing I offer
the following:
In the early 70's, GEM (Not called Tyco then) had a HSW that covered 16 x 28
ft. It was UL Listed until they figured out that they did not test it with a
ceiling. When they did, the water spray hit the
Mike,
My point is that NFPA 13 should be read literally rather than being
interpreted on the basis of assumptions about the depth and breadth of
testing that may or may not be true, depending on the application. 13 is
not defective, but some of the interpretations of it are.
Joe
Mike
Joe and I are on the same page on this issue but I wanted to clarify
a minor point. I think the standards says equally ACCEPTABLE with no
statement about performance. Another good example is ceiling only
verses ceiling with in-racks. Both are equally acceptable but not
even close to the
There was an old formal interpretation that said one building, one
system. There is criteria in the 2007 edition under 8.2.4 and 8.2.5
(and Annex). We could discuss what 8.2.4 means by multiple buildings
with a common wall when they are owned by different parties but
that's a different
Here in California, Mixed Use Construction is becoming more common.
One structure, multi story, individually owned units.
Several units can occupy an entire floor, or vertically several floors with
an attic.
Common walls separate these units.
Ground and second floors include parking and
One things for sure-
If you zone it for today's layout of ownership lines, it will be wrong
before its occupied.
glc
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Cyr
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:28 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
mixed use is the natural evolution of urban space.
Mixed use is an efficient means for cities to do
what they do best, rapid exchange
of information and materials.
fire prtection should facilitate that, not dictate
single use design for our own ease of mind.
to every tenant a riser, and
Thanks, I'll look at these sections. The situation is an IBC building
code Building Separation Wall dividing a public structure from
another public structure so that they function code-wise as two
separate buildings. A gut instinct says a sprinkler system should not
cross this type of
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This topic was discussed in the past year. Although your gut feeling is
probably the way it should be, it is not the way it is. When this was
discussed previously I had the opinion that a building is intended to be
a stand alone structure and not subject to being degraded by a problem
in an
What about the low flow heads that were designed at very low flows? Can't
remember, was it 8 gpm for pendents 16'x16'? Anyway, some value really low.
When the density was increased, it was never admitted that the previous
densities did not work. Sprinklers manufactured after a certain date were
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