anyone have any experience with vinyl covered gypsum wall board?
I have a project that requires a fire-resistance rated barrier in the
corridor and sleeping rooms. It is a 2 story, modular construction
with the modular pieces-of-the-building arriving to the
site on trailers and welded together.
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My recommendation for something like this is to contact the Gypsum
Association or one of the manufacturers of Type X gypsumboard. I think
any of the manufacturers would be able to help with this question.
Although the Gypsum Association has a fire protection person on call,
the response time
In NFPA 13, under the section describing OH2 occupancies, they
mention Chemical plants - ordinary. What is an ordinary chemical plant?
Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080
___
No such animal. Don't be mislead.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ch2m.com
-Original
Not sure that the wall configuration you described requires a unique UL
listing. If anyone out there knows different please correct me. Nonetheless,
interior finish requirements of the applicable building code would apply to the
vinyl wall covering. IBC requires such finishes to be at least
I have never done a chemical processing facility that fell under NFPA 13
and never an OH occupancy. Usually they fall under NFPA 30 or a more
stringent and specific FM criteria. Each plant requires a detailed
hazards analysis of the process, equipment types and purpose, MSDS info
as well as
I'm glad to see others seem to be thinking along the same lines. This
is the second design-build chemical facility project this year with
no engineering or insurance company input and no company policies on
fire protection other than 'code says we need sprinklers'.
Let me pose this: if there
Ordinary Chemicals would be water based materials of inorganic compounds. No
flammable solvents, oils or organic compounds would be allowed. Moderately
combustible chemicals. What were you thinking about?
Art at ATCO Fire
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
they're the ones where the employees can smoke at their work tables..
- Original Message -
From: Todd Williams - FPDC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:25 AM
Subject: Ordinary chemical plants?
In NFPA 13, under the section
We have a customer that is trying to save money (I don't agree) by only
installing sprinklers above the racks they are installing. I remember that
231C used to have something about the sprinkler design having to include 15'
past the end of the area being protected. I can't find it in chapter 12
Yes, you're correct. 12.1.5 (2002 Edition) NFPA 13
David Autry
Plans Examiner
Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office
246 S. 14th Street
Lincoln, NE 68508
402-471-9659
402-471-3118 fax
www.sfm.ne.gov
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay
Jay,
12.3 (1)--2007 ed.
On 3/6/08, Jay Stough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We have a customer that is trying to save money (I don't agree) by only
installing sprinklers above the racks they are installing. I remember
that
231C used to have something about the sprinkler design having to include
As with any guide book, it can be easy to misinterpret the intention of
the source. The list of hazards in 13 is a broad brush and without
proper experience one could misinterpret the statement to be all
inclusive which of course it can't be. For any engineering company
to apply the broad brush
2007 edition Section 12.3* Adjacent Occupancies
2002 edition Section 12.1.5* Adjacent Occupancies
Bobby Gillett
Project Manager
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(731)-424-0130
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Stough
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008
There could be chemical plants that are OH2. Say a plant manufacturing
medical drugs. That would also be a chemical plant. If the processed
material and products are non-hazardous, it could be OH2. Say a plant that
manufactures toothpaste. I have no clue regarding materials involved. But if
they
Craig,
You'll love this. A small sprinklered building housing a molten salt (1000
degrees) bath that pretty much fills the entire building. The fire marshal
won't allow the sprinkler system to shut off or removed even though the
manufacturer states in the literature multiple times in bold and red
This is a design-build project: translation - no engineering. The
builder sold the client a shell and hired subs to fill it in. My
role, right now, is as sprinkler system designer. However, that is
expanding and will probably at least cover engineering for the
storage area, once they figure
Be very careful almost every chemical plant has Process Safety
Management Guides and Process Safety Analysis documents which are
required by OSHA and by the EPA for all process plants.
In 35 years of fire protection engineering I have not found an OH
chemical plant additionally the IBC defines
Toothpaste, uh, you'd die if you knew some of the stuff that goes into
making some of our non-hazardous household products.
Pharmaceuticals can use some highly toxic and flammable materials in the
process if not in the actual commodity. Some of the chemicals used are
used to cause certain
Many years ago (when I made an honest living as a helper) I worked in a
plant that made artificial sweetener for sodas. I vowed never to let my
children drink a soda that required all that chemical protective equipment
just for me to hang pipe.
R/
Matt
Matthew J. Willis
Living Water Fire
I thought there was a reference or explanation in the code that specifies
that the 18 clearance to the top of storage refers to storage in the middle
of a room but does not apply to the storage against the wall. Did I imagine
this?
Thank you,
Greg McGahan
How high is the storage and what is class of the commodity?
Art at ATCO Fire
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:43 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: 18 clearance to storage
I
My son just did his chemistry report on Phosphorus - his mobile had a tube
of toothpaste on it. Some phosphorus can not even be transported other than
in water. Out of water well - you do not want to be anywhere near. Yet it
is some toothpastes.
Point well taken.
-Original Message-
It is a closet in a condominium!!!
Thank you,
Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of art
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:50
Actually that sounds like an interesting proposition, I like those kind of
jobs. I did the process equipment layout for a small chemical plant
manufacturing dendrimer polymers in Michigan once, it was fun to do all the
stuff I'm not sposed to know about from scratch.
Bill Minkel, Designer
Yup, Ours was stored in Kerosene. The sodium too. Dry chemical extinguishing
(ABC) has lots of
phosphorus. Reacted to a salt of course.
C. Burton Ford
Designer- NICET Certified: Fire Alarm,
Special Hazards, Sprinkler Design
Sprinkler Inspections
NFPA CFPS
Cintas Fire Protection-D-47
You transport Phosphorus in water you gonna get a heck of a big big
surprise.
Bill Minkel, Designer
Western States Fire Protection, Dallas
NFPA Member #2578666
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rosemary
Beers
Sent: Thursday, March 06,
Greg,
I believe the provision you are thinking of is in the annex to the 18 in. reqt.
Regards,
Rich Richardson
Seattle Fire Department
Greg McGahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/06/08 1:16 PM
It is a closet in a condominium!!!
Thank you,
Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie
In Vietnam we used White Phosphorus bombs (known as Willie Pete). You
cannot put it out with water.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rosemary
Beers
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
put it on your list of items to submit a proposal on (3 years from
now). Once the ROP is published (some time in April), give me a call
and we'll see if we can find a hook for a comment.
Roland
On Mar 6, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Todd Williams - FPDC wrote:
I'm glad to see others seem to be
Steve,
You might try contacting Howard Stacy with Western Fire Center Inc.
(WFCi), in Kelso, WA. They are an accredited and independent fire
testing laboratory that is capable of not only evaluating construction
assemblies but has the ability to run a fire model or even conduct
small/full scale
What?
Phosphorus is commonly misspelled phosphorous. It is an essential
component of living systems and is found in nervous tissue, bones and cell
protoplasm. Phosphorus exists in several allotropic forms including white
(or yellow), red, and black (or violet). White phosphorus has two
Tom and others:
I REALLY shouldn't have taken this long to find this, but I'm putting
together new slides for various upcoming presentations on NFPA 14 and
came across this annex material that I had completely forgotten about
and overlooked last week:
A5.4 The committee's intent is to permit
While I understand there are the socio-economic answers, I'm looking for
the real world, nuts and bolts methods for deterring the theft of FDC's
and related fire protection equipment. I know other areas of the country
are seeing the theft of metal on an increasing rate as we are. I'm
interested in
David,
1) Storz FDC's (ideal for Bldg Mounted or Freestanding)
2) Flush FDC's (ideal for Bldg Mounted)
We are currently investigating Knox Caps since the plastic ones are too
easily vandalized and well the brass ones get stolen.
John Drucker
Fire Protection Subcode Official
Red Bank, NJ
So I'll put this in my Blackberry to beep at me in 2011.
At 04:52 PM 3/6/2008, you wrote:
put it on your list of items to submit a proposal on (3 years from
now). Once the ROP is published (some time in April), give me a call
and we'll see if we can find a hook for a comment.
Roland
Todd
1) Due to operational issues, the stortz fittings are not an option for us;
we're stuck with 2.5 fittings.
2) We allow the use of knox FDC caps and the building owners get over the cost
of them when they consider the fee for a backflush or internal inspeciton when
the plastics are
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