We have a 4 story building with mercantile on the 1st floor and residential
living on the top 3 floors (Light Hazard). This is wood construction and we
have to put sprinklers in between the ceiling and floor space. Can the area
of reduction be taken in the remote area for the sprinklers between
Yes as far as I see. As long as all conditions are met, there are no other
restrictions mentioned.
R/
Matt
Matthew J. Willis
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC.
1160 McKenzie Rd.
PO Box 877
Cantonment, FL. 32533
850-937-1850 Voice
850-937-1852 Facsimile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -Original
In my opinion, the small room rule can be used. I believe the 225 sq ft
and 130 sq ft limits are there to restrict the use of special
sprinklers, not to limit the use of other NFPA 13 spacing rules.
Bill Brooks
William N. Brooks, P.E.
Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc.
372 Wilett Drive
Ed --
I wasn't able to use small room at a USMC facility recently, in
fact they required
a base of 3.000 sf for a wet system. You are however allowed to
discount for use
of QR heads applied to that 3,000 sf.
You can look this up in Table 4-1 in the Unified Facilities Criteria
Fire
Bobby,
If the area in the floor/ceiling space is a horizontal combustible
conceled space 36 of less in height (and I presume they are),
you must use a LISTED sprinkler for this space and abide by all
requirements of the sprinkler's listings, including appropriate
compartmentalization.
If the
Not necessarily - remember his question is predicated by the application
of the DOD standards, not NFPA 13. The UFC's supersede those listings
in many cases and I would check with the AHJ in any case; we have had
the concealed space sprinklers shot down by NAVFAC in the past.
Unfortunately, a
I assume you are talking about '02-8.14.1.6. The other issue is the members
are capable of trapping heat. The annex section says more than 2 top cord.
Around here these are usually (but not always) 2x materials on the flat and
thus wouldn't trap heat by the criteria and thus no listed sprinklers
Steve,
I think you are cross-threading here. There are 2 different questions
going on this morning on the forum. But you do make some very good points!
Cliff Whitfield, SET
Fire Design, Inc
.-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Ed,
No, it doesn't rule out the small room rule specifically, because under
the provisions of NFPA-13, 07,
8.6.3.2.4, the spacing of sprinklers in such small rooms can be up to
9'-0 off of any one wall, but
cannot exceed the maximum spacing limitations in table 8.6.2.2.1(a),
which is either
Heh, heh, heh. More coffee please.
Steve Leyton
Protection Design Consulting
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff
Whitfield
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:34 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Area of Reduction 11.2.3
Forumites,
I searched the archives and didn't find a discussion on this topic.
Here's my question?
Can I extrapolate out beyond the 10'-0 length on the section modulus
required for trapeze in table 9.1.1.6.1(a) '07ed.?
A fitter called this morning wanting 14' trapeze hangers for 4
Can you apply the formula and get an equivalent modulus based on not center
loading the members?
R/
Matt
Matthew J. Willis
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC.
1160 McKenzie Rd.
PO Box 877
Cantonment, FL. 32533
850-937-1850 Voice
850-937-1852 Facsimile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -Original
As for a definitive answer to this question, I can not provide.
What I can provide is this... there is no direction in the NFPA standard
(that I can find) on how to determine a section modulus for spans over
10ft. However...
(1) Adding the 4ft span modulus to the 10ft span modulus does seem to
Can you extrapolate from the table, I wouldn't. Can you calculate the
required section modulus for a 14 ft trapeze span, yes. Would you
want someone whose name ends in PE to sign off on it, definitely.
.
At 12:04 PM 5/20/2008, you wrote:
Forumites,
I searched the archives and didn't find
Randy,
I'm not sure I agree with a couple of the responses you've received, so
I'll weigh in with my own.
The values shown in Table 9.1.1.6.1(b) in the '02 edition of NFPA-13 are
based on the required
section modulus for a load created by 15'-0 of pipe filled with water,
plus 250 pounds,
Ken,
Something drove me a little crazy because you units weren't working
out. The 17,921.4 in-lbs translates to 17.921 in-kips (1 kip = 1000
lbs, for those who have not run into it before, and even for those
who have). When you divide that by the bending stress of 15 ksi, the
units now work
We just finished a layout for NAVFAC PACDIV, for a 2 story dorm. Poured
concrete construction, full height concrete walls, floors and roof, every
24'-0 with only 30'-0 front to back.(5200 Sf per floor total)
UFC say's you can use 13R, NAVFAC say's NO. UFC say's reduced area for QR
heads, NAVFAC
Todd,
You're right, the proper unit of measure should have been in-kips when
using 17.921. I wasn't
keeping the units straight, and that can give very odd results.
I saw the equation a little differently than the one you quoted, but
only because the structural
who taught me all this stuff
What are the NAVFAC references for no use of 13R and no area reduction
for QR heads?
Bill Brooks
William N. Brooks, P.E.
Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc.
372 Wilett Drive
Severna Park, MD 21146
410-544-3620 Phone
410-544-3032 FAX
412-400-6528 Cell
Original Message
19 matches
Mail list logo
