RE: Building Utility Tunnels

2018-05-16 Thread Jim Davidson 
The tunnel is part of the building I would be worried about the “Building” code 
issues.

Regards

Jim Davidson

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:15 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Building Utility Tunnels

NFPA 13, 2013 ed, 8.15.1.2.2 says, “Concealed spaces of noncombustible and 
limited-combustible construction with limited access and not permitting 
occupancy or storage of combustibles shall not require sprinkler protection.”

Would a utility tunnel that is under the footprint of the building meet the 
requirements of the above reference to omit sprinklers?  Does limited access 
mean locked doors?

I am looking at a building tunnel that is “accessible” via climbing a ladder 
from a basement corridor…no door.  Another tunnel is accessed from a mechanical 
room but there is no door to get into the tunnel from the mechanical room, but 
the mechanical room door is locked.

Trying to determine which tunnels would require sprinkler protection...or 
really I am starting with the assumption that the tunnels are required to be 
sprinklered but wondering if certain tunnels would meet requirements to omit 
sprinklers.  The AHJ actually floated the idea of installing sprinklers from 
the sprinklered corridor 15’ into the tunnel, but he also said I have to find a 
clear code/standard reference that allows the omission of sprinkler protection 
in the tunnels otherwise we will need to protect them.

I’m not necessarily looking for opinions on whether we should or shouldn’t 
protect the tunnels, but more so, what the intent of 8.15 is in regards to 
tunnels or if there are other references in the IBC (2012) or elsewhere that 
would shed more light.

Thank you.

Reed Roisum



Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<http://www.kfiengineers.com>

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RE: Building Utility Tunnels

2018-05-16 Thread Prahl, Craig/GVL 
Knowing what is being routed through the tunnel is important.  I’ve had them 
used for access to the underside of hydraulic equipment so there was hydraulic 
oils at high pressure, had them used for distribution of various chemicals 
along with electrical and other uses.   From a fire protection standpoint the 
tunnels were essentially treated as just another room in the building and 
protected based on what type of hazards were present.

I also let the GC or mechanical/plumbing contractor know that the area will be 
sprinklered so they can provide a sump or other means to remove any sprinkler 
discharge should one occur or when there was any discharge from a low point 
drain during service or repair.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/>

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:46 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Building Utility Tunnels

Not sure about everything in the tunnel, but I know there is some steam piping 
and domestic water piping.


Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.kfiengineers.com&d=DwMGaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=fVkSvNDN5x6W9mHOTUUX54dzZ0wkHRmp6OiGSfxBruw&s=_mNdfyii3zW3l-_u4fN9EFiDWLqsS554JAfzsd3PbgU&e=>
From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:02 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: Building Utility Tunnels

What is the tunnel for?  When you say utility, what kinds of systems conveying 
materials are being run through the tunnels?

Either way, a utility tunnel typically won’t meet the whole definition of 
8.15.1.2.2. Since it is accessible, it is really no different than a utility 
room or other similar use area.

If the rest of the building requires sprinklers, the tunnels would as well.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | 
www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/>

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:15 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Building Utility Tunnels

NFPA 13, 2013 ed, 8.15.1.2.2 says, “Concealed spaces of noncombustible and 
limited-combustible construction with limited access and not permitting 
occupancy or storage of combustibles shall not require sprinkler protection.”

Would a utility tunnel that is under the footprint of the building meet the 
requirements of the above reference to omit sprinklers?  Does limited access 
mean locked doors?

I am looking at a building tunnel that is “accessible” via climbing a ladder 
from a basement corridor…no door.  Another tunnel is accessed from a mechanical 
room but there is no door to get into the tunnel from the mechanical room, but 
the mechanical room door is locked.

Trying to determine which tunnels would require sprinkler protection...or 
really I am starting with the assumption that the tunnels are required to be 
sprinklered but wondering if certain tunnels would meet requirements to omit 
sprinklers.  The AHJ actually floated the idea of installing sprinklers from 
the sprinklered corridor 15’ into the tunnel, but he also said I have to find a 
clear code/standard reference that allows the omission of sprinkler protection 
in the tunnels otherwise we will need to protect them.

I’m not necessarily looking for opinions on whether we should or shouldn’t 
protect the tunnels, but more so, what the intent of 8.15 is in regards to 
tunnels or if there are other references in the IBC (2012) or elsewhere that 
would shed more light.

Thank you.

Reed Roisum



Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.kfiengineers.com&d=DwMGaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=VV3grN9Eee5XQEiZIqxYfwWTAcBlxDKORV32YmpJp7g&s=w_EtZRiEj_lMmKp7DwzezEuLdzZ1H4rZ3MjvGdYHD2w&e=>

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RE: Building Utility Tunnels

2018-05-16 Thread Reed A. Roisum, SET 
Not sure about everything in the tunnel, but I know there is some steam piping 
and domestic water piping.


Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<http://www.kfiengineers.com>
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Prahl, Craig/GVL
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:02 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Building Utility Tunnels

What is the tunnel for?  When you say utility, what kinds of systems conveying 
materials are being run through the tunnels?

Either way, a utility tunnel typically won’t meet the whole definition of 
8.15.1.2.2. Since it is accessible, it is really no different than a utility 
room or other similar use area.

If the rest of the building requires sprinklers, the tunnels would as well.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | 
www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/>

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:15 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Building Utility Tunnels

NFPA 13, 2013 ed, 8.15.1.2.2 says, “Concealed spaces of noncombustible and 
limited-combustible construction with limited access and not permitting 
occupancy or storage of combustibles shall not require sprinkler protection.”

Would a utility tunnel that is under the footprint of the building meet the 
requirements of the above reference to omit sprinklers?  Does limited access 
mean locked doors?

I am looking at a building tunnel that is “accessible” via climbing a ladder 
from a basement corridor…no door.  Another tunnel is accessed from a mechanical 
room but there is no door to get into the tunnel from the mechanical room, but 
the mechanical room door is locked.

Trying to determine which tunnels would require sprinkler protection...or 
really I am starting with the assumption that the tunnels are required to be 
sprinklered but wondering if certain tunnels would meet requirements to omit 
sprinklers.  The AHJ actually floated the idea of installing sprinklers from 
the sprinklered corridor 15’ into the tunnel, but he also said I have to find a 
clear code/standard reference that allows the omission of sprinkler protection 
in the tunnels otherwise we will need to protect them.

I’m not necessarily looking for opinions on whether we should or shouldn’t 
protect the tunnels, but more so, what the intent of 8.15 is in regards to 
tunnels or if there are other references in the IBC (2012) or elsewhere that 
would shed more light.

Thank you.

Reed Roisum



Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.kfiengineers.com&d=DwMGaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=VV3grN9Eee5XQEiZIqxYfwWTAcBlxDKORV32YmpJp7g&s=w_EtZRiEj_lMmKp7DwzezEuLdzZ1H4rZ3MjvGdYHD2w&e=>

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RE: Building Utility Tunnels

2018-05-16 Thread Mike B Morey 
I would agree with Craig, ladders and doors don't fit the 8.15.1.2.2.1 
definitions of openings that don't disqualify something from being a 
concealed space.  I always prefer a what does the book say answer, but in 
this case I'm going with it's what the book doesn't say.



Mike Morey
CFPS 3229 • NICET S.E.T. 123677
Project Manager • Fire Protection Group
Shambaugh & Son, LP an EMCOR Company
7614 Opportunity Drive • Fort Wayne, IN • 46825
direct 260.487.7824 /  cell 260.417.0625 /  fax 260.487.7991
email mmo...@shambaugh.com







From:   "Prahl, Craig/GVL" 
To: "sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org" 

Date:   05/16/2018 12:02 PM
Subject:RE: Building Utility Tunnels
Sent by:"Sprinklerforum" 




BE ADVISED - This email originated outside EMCOR. 

What is the tunnel for?  When you say utility, what kinds of systems 
conveying materials are being run through the tunnels?
 
Either way, a utility tunnel typically won’t meet the whole definition of 
8.15.1.2.2. Since it is accessible, it is really no different than a 
utility room or other similar use area. 
 
If the rest of the building requires sprinklers, the tunnels would as 
well.
 
Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com
 
From: Sprinklerforum [
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed 
A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:15 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Building Utility Tunnels
 
NFPA 13, 2013 ed, 8.15.1.2.2 says, “Concealed spaces of noncombustible and 
limited-combustible construction with limited access and not permitting 
occupancy or storage of combustibles shall not require sprinkler 
protection.”
 
Would a utility tunnel that is under the footprint of the building meet 
the requirements of the above reference to omit sprinklers?  Does limited 
access mean locked doors?
 
I am looking at a building tunnel that is “accessible” via climbing a 
ladder from a basement corridor…no door.  Another tunnel is accessed from 
a mechanical room but there is no door to get into the tunnel from the 
mechanical room, but the mechanical room door is locked. 
 
Trying to determine which tunnels would require sprinkler protection...or 
really I am starting with the assumption that the tunnels are required to 
be sprinklered but wondering if certain tunnels would meet requirements to 
omit sprinklers.  The AHJ actually floated the idea of installing 
sprinklers from the sprinklered corridor 15’ into the tunnel, but he also 
said I have to find a clear code/standard reference that allows the 
omission of sprinkler protection in the tunnels otherwise we will need to 
protect them.
 
I’m not necessarily looking for opinions on whether we should or shouldn’t 
protect the tunnels, but more so, what the intent of 8.15 is in regards to 
tunnels or if there are other references in the IBC (2012) or elsewhere 
that would shed more light.
 
Thank you.
 
Reed Roisum
 
 
Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com 

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RE: Building Utility Tunnels

2018-05-16 Thread Prahl, Craig/GVL 
What is the tunnel for?  When you say utility, what kinds of systems conveying 
materials are being run through the tunnels?

Either way, a utility tunnel typically won’t meet the whole definition of 
8.15.1.2.2. Since it is accessible, it is really no different than a utility 
room or other similar use area.

If the rest of the building requires sprinklers, the tunnels would as well.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/>

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:15 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Building Utility Tunnels

NFPA 13, 2013 ed, 8.15.1.2.2 says, “Concealed spaces of noncombustible and 
limited-combustible construction with limited access and not permitting 
occupancy or storage of combustibles shall not require sprinkler protection.”

Would a utility tunnel that is under the footprint of the building meet the 
requirements of the above reference to omit sprinklers?  Does limited access 
mean locked doors?

I am looking at a building tunnel that is “accessible” via climbing a ladder 
from a basement corridor…no door.  Another tunnel is accessed from a mechanical 
room but there is no door to get into the tunnel from the mechanical room, but 
the mechanical room door is locked.

Trying to determine which tunnels would require sprinkler protection...or 
really I am starting with the assumption that the tunnels are required to be 
sprinklered but wondering if certain tunnels would meet requirements to omit 
sprinklers.  The AHJ actually floated the idea of installing sprinklers from 
the sprinklered corridor 15’ into the tunnel, but he also said I have to find a 
clear code/standard reference that allows the omission of sprinkler protection 
in the tunnels otherwise we will need to protect them.

I’m not necessarily looking for opinions on whether we should or shouldn’t 
protect the tunnels, but more so, what the intent of 8.15 is in regards to 
tunnels or if there are other references in the IBC (2012) or elsewhere that 
would shed more light.

Thank you.

Reed Roisum



Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.kfiengineers.com&d=DwMGaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=VV3grN9Eee5XQEiZIqxYfwWTAcBlxDKORV32YmpJp7g&s=w_EtZRiEj_lMmKp7DwzezEuLdzZ1H4rZ3MjvGdYHD2w&e=>

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Building Utility Tunnels

2018-05-16 Thread Reed A. Roisum, SET 
NFPA 13, 2013 ed, 8.15.1.2.2 says, “Concealed spaces of noncombustible and 
limited-combustible construction with limited access and not permitting 
occupancy or storage of combustibles shall not require sprinkler protection.”

Would a utility tunnel that is under the footprint of the building meet the 
requirements of the above reference to omit sprinklers?  Does limited access 
mean locked doors?

I am looking at a building tunnel that is “accessible” via climbing a ladder 
from a basement corridor…no door.  Another tunnel is accessed from a mechanical 
room but there is no door to get into the tunnel from the mechanical room, but 
the mechanical room door is locked.

Trying to determine which tunnels would require sprinkler protection...or 
really I am starting with the assumption that the tunnels are required to be 
sprinklered but wondering if certain tunnels would meet requirements to omit 
sprinklers.  The AHJ actually floated the idea of installing sprinklers from 
the sprinklered corridor 15’ into the tunnel, but he also said I have to find a 
clear code/standard reference that allows the omission of sprinkler protection 
in the tunnels otherwise we will need to protect them.

I’m not necessarily looking for opinions on whether we should or shouldn’t 
protect the tunnels, but more so, what the intent of 8.15 is in regards to 
tunnels or if there are other references in the IBC (2012) or elsewhere that 
would shed more light.

Thank you.

Reed Roisum



Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com

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