Re: inrack sprinkler question

[Bruce Verhei]

The only exception to the practice of balancing is that new single layer scheme 
way at the end of the in rack section of Data Sheet 8-9.

Best

Bruce Verhei 

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 12:40, Ron Greenman  wrote:
> 
> I've seen in-racks that seem to be essentially a separate system as they
> come off a common manifold and look like risers, and still calculate both
> back to the manifold, adjust there and the calc out to the source.
> 
> 
> 
> Ron Greenman
> 
> rongreen...@gmail.com
> 
> 253.576.9700
> 
> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner
> Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera
> director (1942-)
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Bob  wrote:
>> 
>> Timothy,
>> The in-rack demand is added to the ceiling demand at the point of
>> connection
>> to the system.  Also, the pressure is to be balanced to within .5 psi.
>> 
>> From the 2013 ed.:
>> 23.8.2   Water demand of sprinklers installed in racks shall be added to
>> ceiling sprinkler water demand over the same protected area at the point of
>> connection.
>> 23.8.3   The demand shall be balanced to the higher pressure.
>> 23.8.4   Water demand of sprinklers installed in racks or water curtains
>> shall be added to the ceiling sprinkler water demand
>> at the point of connection. Demands shall be balanced to the higher
>> pressure. (See Chapter 8.)
>> 
>> 23.4.2.4  Hydraulic Junction Points.
>> 23.4.2.4.1   Pressures at hydraulic junction points shall balance within
>> 0.5
>> psi (0.03 bar).
>> 23.4.2.4.2   The highest pressure at the junction point, and the total
>> flows
>> as adjusted, shall be carried into the calculations.
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Bob Knight, CET III
>> 208-318-3057
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces@lists.firesprinkler.
>> org]
>> On Behalf Of Easter, Timothy M CIV NAVFAC MIDLANT, CI
>> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 11:30 AM
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> Subject: inrack sprinkler question
>> 
>> Does the in-rack sprinkler system need to be combined with the ceiling
>> sprinkler system, for hydraulic calcs? Can anyone cite reference that
>> requires this?
>> 
>> V/R,
>> Timothy M. Easter, P.E.
>> NAVFAC Mid-Atlantic
>> Capital Improvements
>> Fire Protection Engineer
>> Comm: (757) 341 - 0130 / DSN 341 - 0130
>> Office Hours: 0800 - 1730
>> RDO: 2nd Friday
>> 
>> 
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Re: inrack sprinkler question

[Ron Greenman]

I've seen in-racks that seem to be essentially a separate system as they
come off a common manifold and look like risers, and still calculate both
back to the manifold, adjust there and the calc out to the source.



Ron Greenman

rongreen...@gmail.com

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner
Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera
director (1942-)

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Bob  wrote:

> Timothy,
> The in-rack demand is added to the ceiling demand at the point of
> connection
> to the system.  Also, the pressure is to be balanced to within .5 psi.
>
> From the 2013 ed.:
> 23.8.2   Water demand of sprinklers installed in racks shall be added to
> ceiling sprinkler water demand over the same protected area at the point of
> connection.
> 23.8.3   The demand shall be balanced to the higher pressure.
> 23.8.4   Water demand of sprinklers installed in racks or water curtains
> shall be added to the ceiling sprinkler water demand
> at the point of connection. Demands shall be balanced to the higher
> pressure. (See Chapter 8.)
>
> 23.4.2.4  Hydraulic Junction Points.
> 23.4.2.4.1   Pressures at hydraulic junction points shall balance within
> 0.5
> psi (0.03 bar).
> 23.4.2.4.2   The highest pressure at the junction point, and the total
> flows
> as adjusted, shall be carried into the calculations.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob Knight, CET III
> 208-318-3057
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces@lists.firesprinkler.
> org]
> On Behalf Of Easter, Timothy M CIV NAVFAC MIDLANT, CI
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 11:30 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: inrack sprinkler question
>
> Does the in-rack sprinkler system need to be combined with the ceiling
> sprinkler system, for hydraulic calcs? Can anyone cite reference that
> requires this?
>
> V/R,
> Timothy M. Easter, P.E.
> NAVFAC Mid-Atlantic
> Capital Improvements
> Fire Protection Engineer
> Comm: (757) 341 - 0130 / DSN 341 - 0130
> Office Hours: 0800 - 1730
> RDO: 2nd Friday
>
>
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> org
>
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>
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RE: inrack sprinkler question

[Bob]

Timothy,
The in-rack demand is added to the ceiling demand at the point of connection
to the system.  Also, the pressure is to be balanced to within .5 psi.

>From the 2013 ed.:
23.8.2   Water demand of sprinklers installed in racks shall be added to
ceiling sprinkler water demand over the same protected area at the point of
connection.
23.8.3   The demand shall be balanced to the higher pressure.
23.8.4   Water demand of sprinklers installed in racks or water curtains
shall be added to the ceiling sprinkler water demand
at the point of connection. Demands shall be balanced to the higher
pressure. (See Chapter 8.)

23.4.2.4  Hydraulic Junction Points.
23.4.2.4.1   Pressures at hydraulic junction points shall balance within 0.5
psi (0.03 bar).
23.4.2.4.2   The highest pressure at the junction point, and the total flows
as adjusted, shall be carried into the calculations.


Thank you,
 
Bob Knight, CET III
208-318-3057
 
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Easter, Timothy M CIV NAVFAC MIDLANT, CI
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 11:30 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: inrack sprinkler question

Does the in-rack sprinkler system need to be combined with the ceiling
sprinkler system, for hydraulic calcs? Can anyone cite reference that
requires this?

V/R,
Timothy M. Easter, P.E.
NAVFAC Mid-Atlantic
Capital Improvements 
Fire Protection Engineer 
Comm: (757) 341 - 0130 / DSN 341 - 0130
Office Hours: 0800 - 1730
RDO: 2nd Friday


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RE: inrack sprinkler question

[Tim Stone]

Chapter 23.8 In-Rack Sprinklers

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Easter, Timothy M CIV NAVFAC MIDLANT, CI
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 1:30 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: inrack sprinkler question

Does the in-rack sprinkler system need to be combined with the ceiling
sprinkler system, for hydraulic calcs? Can anyone cite reference that
requires this?

V/R,
Timothy M. Easter, P.E.
NAVFAC Mid-Atlantic
Capital Improvements 
Fire Protection Engineer 
Comm: (757) 341 - 0130 / DSN 341 - 0130
Office Hours: 0800 - 1730
RDO: 2nd Friday


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RE: inrack sprinkler question

[MFP Design, LLC]

It is in every section in the storage sprinklers (CMDA, CMSA, ESFR).

Check 16.2.1.4.3.1 of the 2016 edition for an example.  The handbook
completely clarifies the issue.

"The user must add the water demand for the designated number of in-rack
sprinklers for the specific 
design application from 16.2.1.4.3.1 to the demand calculations for the
ceiling sprinklers and balance to 
the higher of the two pressure demands to ensure that the water supply can
handle the simultaneous 
operation of ceiling and in-rack sprinklers."


Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:tm...@mfpdesign.com

http://www.mfpdesign.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
price is forgotten."

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Easter, Timothy M CIV NAVFAC MIDLANT, CI
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 11:30 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: inrack sprinkler question

Does the in-rack sprinkler system need to be combined with the ceiling
sprinkler system, for hydraulic calcs? Can anyone cite reference that
requires this?

V/R,
Timothy M. Easter, P.E.
NAVFAC Mid-Atlantic
Capital Improvements 
Fire Protection Engineer 
Comm: (757) 341 - 0130 / DSN 341 - 0130
Office Hours: 0800 - 1730
RDO: 2nd Friday


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