RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[Greg McGahan via Sprinklerforum]

Good points Skyler but it is worth mentioning that the decisions you mentions 
(13 vs 13r) etc. are subject to Geography and Jurisdiction. In Florida for 
instance, anything less than 50 sprinklers IS designed solely by the Sprinkler 
Contractor and we are responsible for answering that question. You can hire an 
engineer if you want too, but of course on smaller projects the additional cost 
can cost you the job.



Greg McGahan



4187 Farrington Road
Milton, FL 32583
O- 850-637-8535
C- 850-712-9555




From: Skyler Bilbo via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Skyler Bilbo
Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R

I don't think this has been said yet on this thread, but I think it is worth 
mentioning.  It is not a fire sprinkler contractor's job to decide where 
sprinklers are required, and/or which standard is applicable (NFPA 13/13R).  I 
know we all probably do this, but we really shouldn't.  I would bet over half 
of contractors don't know half as much as they should about this subject (me 
included; and I think I know a lot about it).  

Long story: There are so many caveats to the Building Code, which trigger 
different requirements for this, which are different in each year of the 
codes/standards, and often different between jurisdictions.  We don't know (and 
I find that it often isn't listed anywhere in the prints) if the Architect used 
a building code tradeoff (larger building area, lower fire ratings, longer 
egress distance, etc) that would automatically trigger the requirement of a 
NFPA 13 system throughout (not 13R, even though it may be less than 4 story 
residential).  It could be that the building is close enough to another 
adjacent building that it requires a NFPA 13 system, or a rated exterior wall 
(which we wouldn't know the option they selected).  There could be separated 
occupancies (with firewalls), mixed occupancies, or accessory occupancies, all 
of which may require a different approach/NFPA standard to be applied.  The 
building mentioned may or may not be a "podium building" (IBC 510.2).  Chapter 
9 of the IBC may, or may not, have minimum requirements for sprinklers based 
solely on occupancy.  This is just a few of the things that I can think of off 
the top of my head.  I'm sure I'm missing some, and there are too many specific 
situations to list here: it would be a novel (like a building code).

Long story short: don't take on the liability by quoting sprinklers in some 
areas, not in others, or with NFPA 13 in some areas and/or NFPA 13R in 
others/throughout, when you really don't know what you are doing.

What I would do: call the Architect. Get it from them (in writing) where 
sprinklers are required and if it is required to be designed per NFPA 13 or 
NFPA 13R.  It is best to do this early on in the bidding process, and try to 
get it sent in an addenda so that your competition bids it the same way you do. 
 Of course, I have done this, and my competition beats me by still bidding it 
incorrectly and against the addenda, and no one realizes that the sprinkler 
system is installed incorrectly, except me, when I walk through the building a 
year later.  That's life in this business.


My $0.02, that no one asked for,

Skyler Bilbo

1700 S. Raney Street
Effingham, IL 62401
217-819-6404 Direct
217-347-7315 Fax

sbi...@wenteplumbing.com
www.wenteplumbing.com

**new** www.beplumb.com
Like us on facebook for updates


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 4:50 PM Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum 
 wrote:
Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy requirement to a 
mixed use and NFPA 13 design criteria is required. Therefore protect the 
garage. Am I on the right track here?
 
 
Art Tiroly
ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly
24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143
216-621-8899
216-570-7030 cell
 
 
 
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R
 
I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered” bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?
 
 
 
John Irwin
West Coast Branch Manager
Quick Response Fire Protection
www.quickresponsefl.com 
Office: 844-9QUICKFL
Cell: 727-282-9243
Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736
West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760
East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934
24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL
 
 
“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin
 



This emai

RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[BRUCE VERHEI via Sprinklerforum]

The host organization of this forum has in the past, and sprinkler industry as 
a whole, advocated for fire codes that allow trade offs for sprinklers. They 
got ‘me.

The deal is now each trade-off is a choice that owner-architect needs to 
explicitly make. 

This might be surprising to most of you who work in a more specialized field. 
From before building permit plans submittal through permit review some 
development teams are regularly pushing, and sometimes strong arming, to defer 
decisions till later. As in, work it out with the field inspector. Issue us a 
permit and we’ll decide later if we go one-hour construction or sprinklered. 
Can’t we build a shell, then convert it? That’s what we do in Texas. Always 
Texas. 

I assume in Texas they say that’s what we do in Washington.

Now I think the push is past trade-offs to sprinklering everything bigger than 
a coffee drive through box or a kids’ wait for the school bus lean-to.

Best.

Bruce Verhei 

> On May 30, 2020 at 12:19 PM Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> This post could be the narrative explanation for why I went into business 
> as a design consultant.  When I was contracting, I lost countless projects 
> that were under-scoped and thus under-bid by competitors.   The sexy allure 
> of a low price continues to be the siren song of hiring sprinkler contractors 
> to design and build, but there’s no vetting of adequacy by the GCs and 
> developers hiring their FP subs.   I wholeheartedly agree that establishing 
> the basis of design should not fall to the installing contractor, and I’ll be 
> the vast majority of our contracting community family members agree with that 
> perspective yet, like lemmings at the edge of a cliff, contractors continue 
> to throw themselves into binding contracts that transfer ALL liability for 
> the design to them.   So many posts on this forum are from contractors and 
> designers who find themselves trying to climb out of expensive holes that 
> they’ve fallen into because they’re being compelled to add window protection 
> and upgrade systems due to building code provisions or equivalency equations 
> that were not specified or otherwise adequately conveyed through the 
> construction documents.   But until our industry pushes back, the buyers of 
> contracting services will continue to defer both the submittals and liability 
> the same way they have since sprinklers became a thing.   Think about it:  
> what other industry is still practicing a 125-year old business model?
> 
>  
> 
> Steve Leyton
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Sprinklerforum 
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Skyler 
> Bilbo via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 3:57 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Skyler Bilbo 
> Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R
> 
>  
> 
> I don't think this has been said yet on this thread, but I think it is 
> worth mentioning.  It is not a fire sprinkler contractor's job to decide 
> where sprinklers are required, and/or which standard is applicable (NFPA 
> 13/13R).  I know we all probably do this, but we really shouldn't.  I would 
> bet over half of contractors don't know half as much as they should about 
> this subject (me included; and I think I know a lot about it).  
> 
>  
> 
> Long story: There are so many caveats to the Building Code, which trigger 
> different requirements for this, which are different in each year of the 
> codes/standards, and often different between jurisdictions.  We don't know 
> (and I find that it often isn't listed anywhere in the prints) if the 
> Architect used a building code tradeoff (larger building area, lower fire 
> ratings, longer egress distance, etc) that would automatically trigger the 
> requirement of a NFPA 13 system throughout (not 13R, even though it may be 
> less than 4 story residential).  It could be that the building is close 
> enough to another adjacent building that it requires a NFPA 13 system, or a 
> rated exterior wall (which we wouldn't know the option they selected).  There 
> could be separated occupancies (with firewalls), mixed occupancies, or 
> accessory occupancies, all of which may require a different approach/NFPA 
> standard to be applied.  The building mentioned may or may not be a "podium 
> building" (IBC 510.2).  Chapter 9 of the IBC may, or may not, have minimum 
> requirements for sprinklers based solely on occupancy.  This is just a few of 
> the things that I can think of off the top of my head.  I'm sure I'm missing 
> some, and there are too many specific situations to list here: it would be a 
> novel (like a building code).
> 
>  
> 
> Long sto

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[Mark.Phelps via Sprinklerforum]

Or actually a 170 year old model. But who’s counting.

Mark at Aero
602 820-7894

On May 30, 2020, at 9:19 AM, Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum 
 wrote:


This post could be the narrative explanation for why I went into business as a 
design consultant.  When I was contracting, I lost countless projects that were 
under-scoped and thus under-bid by competitors.   The sexy allure of a low 
price continues to be the siren song of hiring sprinkler contractors to design 
and build, but there’s no vetting of adequacy by the GCs and developers hiring 
their FP subs.   I wholeheartedly agree that establishing the basis of design 
should not fall to the installing contractor, and I’ll be the vast majority of 
our contracting community family members agree with that perspective yet, like 
lemmings at the edge of a cliff, contractors continue to throw themselves into 
binding contracts that transfer ALL liability for the design to them.   So many 
posts on this forum are from contractors and designers who find themselves 
trying to climb out of expensive holes that they’ve fallen into because they’re 
being compelled to add window protection and upgrade systems due to building 
code provisions or equivalency equations that were not specified or otherwise 
adequately conveyed through the construction documents.   But until our 
industry pushes back, the buyers of contracting services will continue to defer 
both the submittals and liability the same way they have since sprinklers 
became a thing.   Think about it:  what other industry is still practicing a 
125-year old business model?

Steve Leyton



From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Skyler Bilbo via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 3:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Skyler Bilbo 
Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R

I don't think this has been said yet on this thread, but I think it is worth 
mentioning.  It is not a fire sprinkler contractor's job to decide where 
sprinklers are required, and/or which standard is applicable (NFPA 13/13R).  I 
know we all probably do this, but we really shouldn't.  I would bet over half 
of contractors don't know half as much as they should about this subject (me 
included; and I think I know a lot about it).

Long story: There are so many caveats to the Building Code, which trigger 
different requirements for this, which are different in each year of the 
codes/standards, and often different between jurisdictions.  We don't know (and 
I find that it often isn't listed anywhere in the prints) if the Architect used 
a building code tradeoff (larger building area, lower fire ratings, longer 
egress distance, etc) that would automatically trigger the requirement of a 
NFPA 13 system throughout (not 13R, even though it may be less than 4 story 
residential).  It could be that the building is close enough to another 
adjacent building that it requires a NFPA 13 system, or a rated exterior wall 
(which we wouldn't know the option they selected).  There could be separated 
occupancies (with firewalls), mixed occupancies, or accessory occupancies, all 
of which may require a different approach/NFPA standard to be applied.  The 
building mentioned may or may not be a "podium building" (IBC 510.2).  Chapter 
9 of the IBC may, or may not, have minimum requirements for sprinklers based 
solely on occupancy.  This is just a few of the things that I can think of off 
the top of my head.  I'm sure I'm missing some, and there are too many specific 
situations to list here: it would be a novel (like a building code).

Long story short: don't take on the liability by quoting sprinklers in some 
areas, not in others, or with NFPA 13 in some areas and/or NFPA 13R in 
others/throughout, when you really don't know what you are doing.

What I would do: call the Architect. Get it from them (in writing) where 
sprinklers are required and if it is required to be designed per NFPA 13 or 
NFPA 13R.  It is best to do this early on in the bidding process, and try to 
get it sent in an addenda so that your competition bids it the same way you do. 
 Of course, I have done this, and my competition beats me by still bidding it 
incorrectly and against the addenda, and no one realizes that the sprinkler 
system is installed incorrectly, except me, when I walk through the building a 
year later.  That's life in this business.


My $0.02, that no one asked for,
Skyler Bilbo
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=1Ot_QzTy6mc49_wnkJ-aKoPIBtkivO1gI=0B1MzybbUMAWgNWRUNW03MkcyNkh4c0d4VXZMS0ZuQ2cvVzlFPQ]
1700 S. Raney Street
Effingham, IL 62401
217-819-6404 Direct
217-347-7315 Fax

sbi...@wenteplumbing.com<mailto:sbi...@wenteplumbing.com>
www.wenteplumbing.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wenteplumbing.com=DwMGaQ=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=dLwiR71i_XhSFqam3ZLeaFLiQJ3cDTUB0ReB4-yDDcg=zGQJfdaUbVOeiDzjzVXSe9Xo

RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum]

This post could be the narrative explanation for why I went into business as a 
design consultant.  When I was contracting, I lost countless projects that were 
under-scoped and thus under-bid by competitors.   The sexy allure of a low 
price continues to be the siren song of hiring sprinkler contractors to design 
and build, but there’s no vetting of adequacy by the GCs and developers hiring 
their FP subs.   I wholeheartedly agree that establishing the basis of design 
should not fall to the installing contractor, and I’ll be the vast majority of 
our contracting community family members agree with that perspective yet, like 
lemmings at the edge of a cliff, contractors continue to throw themselves into 
binding contracts that transfer ALL liability for the design to them.   So many 
posts on this forum are from contractors and designers who find themselves 
trying to climb out of expensive holes that they’ve fallen into because they’re 
being compelled to add window protection and upgrade systems due to building 
code provisions or equivalency equations that were not specified or otherwise 
adequately conveyed through the construction documents.   But until our 
industry pushes back, the buyers of contracting services will continue to defer 
both the submittals and liability the same way they have since sprinklers 
became a thing.   Think about it:  what other industry is still practicing a 
125-year old business model?

Steve Leyton



From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Skyler Bilbo via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 3:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Skyler Bilbo 
Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R

I don't think this has been said yet on this thread, but I think it is worth 
mentioning.  It is not a fire sprinkler contractor's job to decide where 
sprinklers are required, and/or which standard is applicable (NFPA 13/13R).  I 
know we all probably do this, but we really shouldn't.  I would bet over half 
of contractors don't know half as much as they should about this subject (me 
included; and I think I know a lot about it).

Long story: There are so many caveats to the Building Code, which trigger 
different requirements for this, which are different in each year of the 
codes/standards, and often different between jurisdictions.  We don't know (and 
I find that it often isn't listed anywhere in the prints) if the Architect used 
a building code tradeoff (larger building area, lower fire ratings, longer 
egress distance, etc) that would automatically trigger the requirement of a 
NFPA 13 system throughout (not 13R, even though it may be less than 4 story 
residential).  It could be that the building is close enough to another 
adjacent building that it requires a NFPA 13 system, or a rated exterior wall 
(which we wouldn't know the option they selected).  There could be separated 
occupancies (with firewalls), mixed occupancies, or accessory occupancies, all 
of which may require a different approach/NFPA standard to be applied.  The 
building mentioned may or may not be a "podium building" (IBC 510.2).  Chapter 
9 of the IBC may, or may not, have minimum requirements for sprinklers based 
solely on occupancy.  This is just a few of the things that I can think of off 
the top of my head.  I'm sure I'm missing some, and there are too many specific 
situations to list here: it would be a novel (like a building code).

Long story short: don't take on the liability by quoting sprinklers in some 
areas, not in others, or with NFPA 13 in some areas and/or NFPA 13R in 
others/throughout, when you really don't know what you are doing.

What I would do: call the Architect. Get it from them (in writing) where 
sprinklers are required and if it is required to be designed per NFPA 13 or 
NFPA 13R.  It is best to do this early on in the bidding process, and try to 
get it sent in an addenda so that your competition bids it the same way you do. 
 Of course, I have done this, and my competition beats me by still bidding it 
incorrectly and against the addenda, and no one realizes that the sprinkler 
system is installed incorrectly, except me, when I walk through the building a 
year later.  That's life in this business.


My $0.02, that no one asked for,
Skyler Bilbo
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=1Ot_QzTy6mc49_wnkJ-aKoPIBtkivO1gI=0B1MzybbUMAWgNWRUNW03MkcyNkh4c0d4VXZMS0ZuQ2cvVzlFPQ]
1700 S. Raney Street
Effingham, IL 62401
217-819-6404 Direct
217-347-7315 Fax

sbi...@wenteplumbing.com<mailto:sbi...@wenteplumbing.com>
www.wenteplumbing.com<http://www.wenteplumbing.com>

**new** www.beplumb.com<http://www.beplumb.com>
Like us on facebook <http://www.facebook.com/justbeplumb> for updates


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 4:50 PM Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy requir

Re: Covered Parking in 13R

[BRUCE VERHEI via Sprinklerforum]

Yes. This is part of the building plan review. If I was the fire plan reviewer 
answer to this question would be on the first sheet of the approved building 
plans, with code cites.

Yes, I’ve had a bunch of spk designers displeased with me over such issues. The 
Building and Fire reviewer can discuss options with the architect and the 
owner. But can’t they make those decisions. It’s not their project. 

Yes, architects and owners do changes their minds sometimes. Until permit is 
issued things can be in flux. Sometimes after that. See Porte cocheres.

Best.

Bruce Verhei


> On May 29, 2020 at 6:57 PM Skyler Bilbo via Sprinklerforum 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't think this has been said yet on this thread, but I think it is 
> worth mentioning.  It is not a fire sprinkler contractor's job to decide 
> where sprinklers are required, and/or which standard is applicable (NFPA 
> 13/13R).  I know we all probably do this, but we really shouldn't.  I would 
> bet over half of contractors don't know half as much as they should about 
> this subject (me included; and I think I know a lot about it).  
> 
> Long story: There are so many caveats to the Building Code, which trigger 
> different requirements for this, which are different in each year of the 
> codes/standards, and often different between jurisdictions.  We don't know 
> (and I find that it often isn't listed anywhere in the prints) if the 
> Architect used a building code tradeoff (larger building area, lower fire 
> ratings, longer egress distance, etc) that would automatically trigger the 
> requirement of a NFPA 13 system throughout (not 13R, even though it may be 
> less than 4 story residential).  It could be that the building is close 
> enough to another adjacent building that it requires a NFPA 13 system, or a 
> rated exterior wall (which we wouldn't know the option they selected).  There 
> could be separated occupancies (with firewalls), mixed occupancies, or 
> accessory occupancies, all of which may require a different approach/NFPA 
> standard to be applied.  The building mentioned may or may not be a "podium 
> building" (IBC 510.2).  Chapter 9 of the IBC may, or may not, have minimum 
> requirements for sprinklers based solely on occupancy.  This is just a few of 
> the things that I can think of off the top of my head.  I'm sure I'm missing 
> some, and there are too many specific situations to list here: it would be a 
> novel (like a building code).
> 
> Long story short: don't take on the liability by quoting sprinklers in 
> some areas, not in others, or with NFPA 13 in some areas and/or NFPA 13R in 
> others/throughout, when you really don't know what you are doing.
> 
> What I would do: call the Architect. Get it from them (in writing) where 
> sprinklers are required and if it is required to be designed per NFPA 13 or 
> NFPA 13R.  It is best to do this early on in the bidding process, and try to 
> get it sent in an addenda so that your competition bids it the same way you 
> do.  Of course, I have done this, and my competition beats me by still 
> bidding it incorrectly and against the addenda, and no one realizes that the 
> sprinkler system is installed incorrectly, except me, when I walk through the 
> building a year later.  That's life in this business.
> 
> 
> My $0.02, that no one asked for,
> Skyler Bilbo
> 
> 1700 S. Raney Street
> Effingham, IL 62401
> 217-819-6404 Direct
> 217-347-7315 Fax
> 
> sbi...@wenteplumbing.com 
> mailto:sbilbo@wenteplumbing.comhttp://www.wenteplumbing.com
> 
> **new**http://www.beplumb.com
> Like us on facebook http://www.facebook.com/justbeplumb for updates
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 4:50 PM Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum < 
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy 
> > requirement to a mixed use and NFPA 13 design criteria is required. 
> > Therefore protect the garage. Am I on the right track here?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Art Tiroly
> > 
> > ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly
> > 
> > 24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143
> > 
> > 216-621-8899
> > 
> > 216-570-7030 cell
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: Sprinklerforum 
> > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> > mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org ] On Behalf Of John 
> > Irwin via Sprinklerforum
> > Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
> > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> > mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> > Cc: John Irwin
> > Subject: Covered Parking in 13R
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the 
> > “engineered” bid set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. 
> > This area is 

RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[Tom Duross via Sprinklerforum]

Kudo’s Skylar.

 

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Skyler Bilbo via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Skyler Bilbo 
Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R

 

I don't think this has been said yet on this thread, but I think it is worth 
mentioning.  It is not a fire sprinkler contractor's job to decide where 
sprinklers are required, and/or which standard is applicable (NFPA 13/13R).  I 
know we all probably do this, but we really shouldn't.  I would bet over half 
of contractors don't know half as much as they should about this subject (me 
included; and I think I know a lot about it).  

 

Long story: There are so many caveats to the Building Code, which trigger 
different requirements for this, which are different in each year of the 
codes/standards, and often different between jurisdictions.  We don't know (and 
I find that it often isn't listed anywhere in the prints) if the Architect used 
a building code tradeoff (larger building area, lower fire ratings, longer 
egress distance, etc) that would automatically trigger the requirement of a 
NFPA 13 system throughout (not 13R, even though it may be less than 4 story 
residential).  It could be that the building is close enough to another 
adjacent building that it requires a NFPA 13 system, or a rated exterior wall 
(which we wouldn't know the option they selected).  There could be separated 
occupancies (with firewalls), mixed occupancies, or accessory occupancies, all 
of which may require a different approach/NFPA standard to be applied.  The 
building mentioned may or may not be a "podium building" (IBC 510.2).  Chapter 
9 of the IBC may, or may not, have minimum requirements for sprinklers based 
solely on occupancy.  This is just a few of the things that I can think of off 
the top of my head.  I'm sure I'm missing some, and there are too many specific 
situations to list here: it would be a novel (like a building code).

 

Long story short: don't take on the liability by quoting sprinklers in some 
areas, not in others, or with NFPA 13 in some areas and/or NFPA 13R in 
others/throughout, when you really don't know what you are doing.

 

What I would do: call the Architect. Get it from them (in writing) where 
sprinklers are required and if it is required to be designed per NFPA 13 or 
NFPA 13R.  It is best to do this early on in the bidding process, and try to 
get it sent in an addenda so that your competition bids it the same way you do. 
 Of course, I have done this, and my competition beats me by still bidding it 
incorrectly and against the addenda, and no one realizes that the sprinkler 
system is installed incorrectly, except me, when I walk through the building a 
year later.  That's life in this business.

 

 

My $0.02, that no one asked for,


Skyler Bilbo

  
<https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=1Ot_QzTy6mc49_wnkJ-aKoPIBtkivO1gI=0B1MzybbUMAWgNWRUNW03MkcyNkh4c0d4VXZMS0ZuQ2cvVzlFPQ>
 

1700 S. Raney Street

Effingham, IL 62401

217-819-6404 Direct

217-347-7315 Fax

 

sbi...@wenteplumbing.com <mailto:sbi...@wenteplumbing.com> 

www.wenteplumbing.com <http://www.wenteplumbing.com> 

 

**new** www.beplumb.com <http://www.beplumb.com> 

Like us on facebook  <http://www.facebook.com/justbeplumb> for updates

 

 

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 4:50 PM Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > wrote:

Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy requirement to a 
mixed use and NFPA 13 design criteria is required. Therefore protect the 
garage. Am I on the right track here?

 

 

Art Tiroly

ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly

24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143

216-621-8899

216-570-7030 cell

 

 

 

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org 
<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> ] On Behalf Of John 
Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> 
Cc: John Irwin
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R

 

I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered” bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?

 

 

 

John Irwin

West Coast Branch Manager

Quick Response Fire Protection

www.quickresponsefl.com <http://www.quickresponsefl.com>  

Office: 844-9QUICKFL

Cell: 727-282-9243

Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736

West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760

East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934

24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL

 

 

“The bitterne

Re: Covered Parking in 13R

[Skyler Bilbo via Sprinklerforum]

I don't think this has been said yet on this thread, but I think it is
worth mentioning.  It is not a fire sprinkler contractor's job to decide
where sprinklers are required, and/or which standard is applicable (NFPA
13/13R).  I know we all probably do this, but we really shouldn't.  I would
bet over half of contractors don't know half as much as they should about
this subject (me included; and I think I know a lot about it).

Long story: There are so many caveats to the Building Code, which trigger
different requirements for this, which are different in each year of the
codes/standards, and often different between jurisdictions.  We don't know
(and I find that it often isn't listed anywhere in the prints) if the
Architect used a building code tradeoff (larger building area, lower fire
ratings, longer egress distance, etc) that would automatically trigger the
requirement of a NFPA 13 system throughout (not 13R, even though it may be
less than 4 story residential).  It could be that the building is close
enough to another adjacent building that it requires a NFPA 13 system, or a
rated exterior wall (which we wouldn't know the option they selected).
There could be separated occupancies (with firewalls), mixed occupancies,
or accessory occupancies, all of which may require a different
approach/NFPA standard to be applied.  The building mentioned may or may
not be a "podium building" (IBC 510.2).  Chapter 9 of the IBC may, or may
not, have minimum requirements for sprinklers based solely on occupancy.
This is just a few of the things that I can think of off the top of my
head.  I'm sure I'm missing some, and there are too many specific
situations to list here: it would be a novel (like a building code).

Long story short: don't take on the liability by quoting sprinklers in some
areas, not in others, or with NFPA 13 in some areas and/or NFPA 13R in
others/throughout, when you really don't know what you are doing.

What I would do: call the Architect. Get it from them (in writing) where
sprinklers are required and if it is required to be designed per NFPA 13 or
NFPA 13R.  It is best to do this early on in the bidding process, and try
to get it sent in an addenda so that your competition bids it the same way
you do.  Of course, I have done this, and my competition beats me by still
bidding it incorrectly and against the addenda, and no one realizes that
the sprinkler system is installed incorrectly, except me, when I walk
through the building a year later.  That's life in this business.


My $0.02, that no one asked for,
Skyler Bilbo

1700 S. Raney Street
Effingham, IL 62401
217-819-6404 Direct
217-347-7315 Fax

sbi...@wenteplumbing.com
www.wenteplumbing.com

**new** www.beplumb.com
Like us on facebook for updates


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 4:50 PM Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy requirement
> to a mixed use and NFPA 13 design criteria is required. Therefore protect
> the garage. Am I on the right track here?
>
>
>
>
>
> Art Tiroly
>
> ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly
>
> 24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143
>
> 216-621-8899
>
> 216-570-7030 cell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *John Irwin
> via Sprinklerforum
> *Sent:* Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Cc:* John Irwin
> *Subject:* Covered Parking in 13R
>
>
>
> I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered”
> bid set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is
> inside the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being
> located above the parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking
> spaces are not separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John Irwin
>
> West Coast Branch Manager
>
> Quick Response Fire Protection
>
> www.quickresponsefl.com
>
> Office: 844-9QUICKFL
>
> Cell: 727-282-9243
>
> Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736
>
> West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760
>
> East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934
>
> 24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL
>
>
>
>
>
> *“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
> price is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin*
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>
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> 

RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum]

One other thing to watch – if they are considering the S2 and R occupancies to 
be separate buildings based on a horizontal assembly – IBC 510.2 requires that 
the lower areas have sprinklers – no NFPA 13 q’s needed. I got hung up on that 
one recently.

Matt


From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:15 PM
To: '321' ; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Art Tiroly 
Subject: RE: Covered Parking in 13R

Check with the AHJ. I’m not sure you can change from 13 to 13R in the same 
building. You can use residential rules in a 13 system of course. Do you have 
combustible concealed spaces in the residential?


Art Tiroly
ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly
24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143
216-621-8899
216-570-7030 cell



From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of 321 via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:02 PM
To: Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum
Cc: 321
Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R

I think so. I have 2 just like this that I am figuring this way13 R 
upstairs NFPA Parkling downstairs.


John W. Farabee

561-707-5150



On Friday, May 29, 2020, 05:50:22 PM EDT, Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:



Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy requirement to a 
mixed use and NFPA 13 design criteria is required. Therefore protect the 
garage. Am I on the right track here?





Art Tiroly

ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly

24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143

216-621-8899

216-570-7030 cell







From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: John Irwin
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R



I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered” bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?







John Irwin

West Coast Branch Manager

Quick Response Fire Protection

www.quickresponsefl.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.quickresponsefl.com=E,1,tTB5vYPDfpdnrnW0DHrX8j8bW6Tfc8cgCI3GBTQH-GNoXSXgv5poeaoLk5N4azM5p70Sxgiy9fBS917M1qUbCxgZ4A4d_BL-bJZAJbQpYG57cmZu9XS2BQ,,=1>

Office: 844-9QUICKFL

Cell: 727-282-9243

Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736

West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760

East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934

24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL





“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin




[Avast logo]<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>

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RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum]

Check with the AHJ. I’m not sure you can change from 13 to 13R in the same 
building. You can use residential rules in a 13 system of course. Do you have 
combustible concealed spaces in the residential?





Art Tiroly

ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly

24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143

216-621-8899

216-570-7030 cell







From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of 321 via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:02 PM
To: Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum
Cc: 321
Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R



I think so. I have 2 just like this that I am figuring this way13 R 
upstairs NFPA Parkling downstairs.





John W. Farabee



561-707-5150







On Friday, May 29, 2020, 05:50:22 PM EDT, Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum 
 wrote:





Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy requirement to a 
mixed use and NFPA 13 design criteria is required. Therefore protect the 
garage. Am I on the right track here?





Art Tiroly

ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly

24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143

216-621-8899

216-570-7030 cell







From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R



I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered” bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?







John Irwin

West Coast Branch Manager

Quick Response Fire Protection

www.quickresponsefl.com

Office: 844-9QUICKFL

Cell: 727-282-9243

Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736

West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760

East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934

24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL





“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin





  _


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Re: Covered Parking in 13R

[321 via Sprinklerforum]

I think so. I have 2 just like this that I am figuring this way13 R 
upstairs NFPA Parkling downstairs.

John W. Farabee
561-707-5150
 

On Friday, May 29, 2020, 05:50:22 PM EDT, Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum 
 wrote:  
 
 #yiv8323256408 #yiv8323256408 -- _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv8323256408 
#yiv8323256408 p.yiv8323256408MsoNormal, #yiv8323256408 
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#yiv8323256408 span.yiv8323256408MsoHyperlink 
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div.yiv8323256408WordSection1 {}#yiv8323256408 
Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy requirement to a 
mixed use and NFPA 13 design criteria is required. Therefore protect the 
garage. Am I on the right track here?

  

  

Art Tiroly

ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly

24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143

216-621-8899

216-570-7030 cell

  

  

  

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R

  

I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered” bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?

  

  

  

John Irwin

West Coast Branch Manager

Quick Response Fire Protection

www.quickresponsefl.com 

Office: 844-9QUICKFL

Cell: 727-282-9243

Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736

West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760

East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934

24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL

  

  

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin

  



|  |  
 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
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RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum]

Residential use above a parking garage changes the occupancy requirement to
a mixed use and NFPA 13 design criteria is required. Therefore protect the
garage. Am I on the right track here?

 

 

Art Tiroly

ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly

24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143

216-621-8899

216-570-7030 cell

 

 

 

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R

 

I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the "engineered"
bid set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is
inside the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located
above the parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are
not separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?

 

 

 

John Irwin

West Coast Branch Manager

Quick Response Fire Protection

www.quickresponsefl.com 

Office: 844-9QUICKFL

Cell: 727-282-9243

Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736

West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760

East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934

24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL

 

 

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

 



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RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[John Irwin via Sprinklerforum]

No.

John Irwin
Quick Response Fire Protection


"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of John Drucker via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 8:42 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Drucker ; tston...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R

Are their standpipes in this building ?

John Drucker


From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 on behalf of tstone52--- via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 07:46
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: tston...@comcast.net<mailto:tston...@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Covered Parking in 13R

John,
NFPA 13R states sprinklers are not required under a roof or deck above a 
carport, 6.6.5.1, (13 ed.). From your description it sounds like a Carport. 
NFPA 13R addresses Type V construction.
That would be a question for the local AHJ to answer.

Regards,
G. Tim Stone

G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC
NICET Level III Engineering Technician
Fire Protection Sprinkler Design
and Consulting Services

   117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452
CELL: (802) 373-0638   TEL: (802) 434-2968
 tston...@comcast.net<mailto:tston...@comcast.net>

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: John Irwin mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com>>
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R

I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the "engineered" bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?



John Irwin
West Coast Branch Manager
Quick Response Fire Protection
www.quickresponsefl.com<http://www.quickresponsefl.com>
Office: 844-9QUICKFL
Cell: 727-282-9243
Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736
West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760
East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934
24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL


"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

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RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[John Irwin via Sprinklerforum]

If you work in Florida you should know that the AHJ doesn’t have the final say. 
The code does. And while I agree that I would like to see sprinklers there, I 
need to know if they are required as this is a BID situation.



John Irwin
Quick Response Fire Protection


“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of 321 via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 8:32 AM
To: Mark.Phelps via Sprinklerforum 
Cc: 321 
Subject: Re: Covered Parking in 13R

John,

I have always put sprinklers on the parking level in a situation as you 
describe. The argument for sprinklers is that if one car catches fire without 
sprinkler protection, you lose the entire building. Over 46 years working in 
Florida and I have always done it...AHJ will be the final word...but deleting 
them is bad Fire Protection in my opinion.


John W. Farabee

561-707-5150



On Friday, May 29, 2020, 07:56:00 AM EDT, Mark.Phelps via Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:



This is outside the scope of the NFPA standards. It is in the realm of the 
local Building or Fire Code to determine the If required.

Mark at Aero

602 820-7894



From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 2:55 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: John Irwin mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Covered Parking in 13R



I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered” bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?







John Irwin

West Coast Branch Manager

Quick Response Fire Protection

www.quickresponsefl.com<http://www.quickresponsefl.com>

Office: 844-9QUICKFL

Cell: 727-282-9243

Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736

West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760

East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934

24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL





“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin


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Re: Covered Parking in 13R

[John Drucker via Sprinklerforum]

Are their standpipes in this building ?

John Drucker


From: Sprinklerforum  on behalf 
of tstone52--- via Sprinklerforum 
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 07:46
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: tston...@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Covered Parking in 13R

John,
NFPA 13R states sprinklers are not required under a roof or deck above a 
carport, 6.6.5.1, (13 ed.). From your description it sounds like a Carport. 
NFPA 13R addresses Type V construction.
That would be a question for the local AHJ to answer.

Regards,
G. Tim Stone

G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC
NICET Level III Engineering Technician
Fire Protection Sprinkler Design
and Consulting Services

   117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452
CELL: (802) 373-0638   TEL: (802) 434-2968
 tston...@comcast.net<mailto:tston...@comcast.net>

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin 
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R

I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered” bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?



John Irwin
West Coast Branch Manager
Quick Response Fire Protection
www.quickresponsefl.com<http://www.quickresponsefl.com>
Office: 844-9QUICKFL
Cell: 727-282-9243
Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736
West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760
East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934
24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL


“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Covered Parking in 13R

[321 via Sprinklerforum]

John,
I have always put sprinklers on the parking level in a situation as you 
describe. The argument for sprinklers is that if one car catches fire without 
sprinkler protection, you lose the entire building. Over 46 years working in 
Florida and I have always done it...AHJ will be the final word...but deleting 
them is bad Fire Protection in my opinion.

John W. Farabee
561-707-5150
 

On Friday, May 29, 2020, 07:56:00 AM EDT, Mark.Phelps via Sprinklerforum 
 wrote:  
 
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This is outside the scope of the NFPA standards. It is in the realm of the 
local Building or Fire Code to determine theIf required.
 
Mark at Aero
 
602 820-7894
 
  
 
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf 
Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 2:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Covered Parking in 13R
 
  
 
I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the “engineered” bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
John Irwin
 
West Coast Branch Manager
 
Quick Response Fire Protection
 
www.quickresponsefl.com
 
Office: 844-9QUICKFL
 
Cell: 727-282-9243
 
Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736
 
West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760
 
East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934
 
24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL
 
  
 
  
 
“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin
 
  
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RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[Mark.Phelps via Sprinklerforum]

This is outside the scope of the NFPA standards. It is in the realm of the 
local Building or Fire Code to determine the If required.
Mark at Aero
602 820-7894

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 2:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Covered Parking in 13R

I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the "engineered" bid 
set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is inside 
the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located above the 
parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are not 
separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?



John Irwin
West Coast Branch Manager
Quick Response Fire Protection
www.quickresponsefl.com
Office: 844-9QUICKFL
Cell: 727-282-9243
Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736
West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760
East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934
24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL


"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

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RE: Covered Parking in 13R

[tstone52--- via Sprinklerforum]

John,

NFPA 13R states sprinklers are not required under a roof or deck above a
carport, 6.6.5.1, (13 ed.). From your description it sounds like a Carport.
NFPA 13R addresses Type V construction.

That would be a question for the local AHJ to answer.

 

Regards,

G. Tim Stone

 

G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC

NICET Level III Engineering Technician

Fire Protection Sprinkler Design

and Consulting Services

 

   117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452

CELL: (802) 373-0638   TEL: (802) 434-2968

   tston...@comcast.net

 

From: Sprinklerforum  On
Behalf Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin 
Subject: Covered Parking in 13R

 

I have a 3-story, 13R building. Type IIB construction. On the "engineered"
bid set, no sprinklers are shown in the covered parking area. This area is
inside the footprint of the first floor, with 2nd floor units being located
above the parking area. There are no garage doors and the parking spaces are
not separated. To sprinkle or not to sprinkle?

 

 

 

John Irwin

West Coast Branch Manager

Quick Response Fire Protection

www.quickresponsefl.com   

Office: 844-9QUICKFL

Cell: 727-282-9243

Main Office: 20545 Independence Blvd. Unit G Groveland, Florida 34736

West Coast: 15201 Roosevelt Blvd., Suite 113, Clearwater, Florida 33760

East Coast:   3133 Skyway Circle, Suite 104, Melbourne, Florida 32934

24 Hour Emergency Service Available 1-844-9QUICKFL

 

 

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

 

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