Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:37:15 -0600 Peter da Silva wrote: > My last name has a space in it. Don't get me started. My phone number has dashes in it, two to be exact. I don't remember the last website that accepted it verbatim. We're pretty far from a database discussion. It is a wonder,

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 17:18:05 -0700 SQLite mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org said 8>< Give up on names and use something else? (SSN, phone number, DOB…) None of the above are safe primary keys. I don't think there is any single combination which is. Eric -- ms fnd in a lbry

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Thursday, 14 November, 2019 09:35, Eric wrote: >On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 00:24:09 + SQLite mailing list >sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org said >> A growing number of organisations now ask me for my DOB or my postcode, >> rather than my name, when looking me up. I think you just

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 18:41:54 -0700 SQLite mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org said On Wednesday, 13 November, 2019 17:18, Warren Young wrote: 8>< ... Useless pricks having no need of a phone number usually get (911) 911-9111 ... It is totally out of order to dismiss _any_

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 00:24:09 + SQLite mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org said 8>< A growing number of organisations now ask me for my DOB or my postcode, rather than my name, when looking me up. I think you just explained why. In my country we have an increasing number of

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Simon Slavin, on Wednesday, November 13, 2019 05:27 PM, wrote...​ ​ > By the way, Keith, 'Medcalf' is possibly the oldest known English surname > (13th Century) and indicates that one​ > of your ancestors raised or slaughtered cows.​ ​ Researching my last name, Cabrera, I found out that it

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Wednesday, 13 November, 2019 17:18, Warren Young wrote: >On Nov 13, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Simon Slavin wrote: >> Don't substring searches help you more than sorted lists ? >There’s a relevant question for this list: how do we do this efficiently? >The naive solution involves a table scan.

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

>"Please fix your last name: No spaces allowed!">By the way, Keith, 'Medcalf' >is possibly the oldest known English surname >(13th Century) and indicates that one of your ancestors raised or >slaughtered cows. Aye, but over here the apparent only version that anyone knows is with a t in place

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

> > ​ ​ Keith Medcalf, on Wednesday, November 13, 2019 05:19 PM, wrote...​ >​ > Its like the stupid "security questions" thing. I always answer them with a > vulgarity.​ ​ I knew this!!​ ​ josé ___ sqlite-users mailing list

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 14 Nov 2019, at 12:18am, Warren Young wrote: > Give up on names and use something else? (SSN, phone number, DOB…) A growing number of organisations now ask me for my DOB or my postcode, rather than my name, when looking me up. I think you just explained why. In my country we have an

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Nov 13, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Simon Slavin wrote: > > Don't substring searches help you more than sorted lists ? There’s a relevant question for this list: how do we do this efficiently? The naive solution involves a table scan. Enable FTS on that column? Manual extraction into indexed

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Nov 13, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Peter da Silva wrote: > > the nurse wastes time looking me up some other way, and > tells me I'm Peterda Silva. My “Young II” saga probably burnt an hour of both my time and that of the insurance company, since it required multiple calls to get it sorted. I use a

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

It just drew a red box and told me to fill out all fields. Then I enter daSilva. Worse are the ones that don't say anything and attach the 'da' somewhere random without telling me. Then I show up and the nurse wastes time looking me up some other way, and tells me I'm Peterda Silva. On Wed, 13

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 13 Nov 2019, at 9:56pm, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > We still need to know that it is your last name and not your first name, or > 2nd name, or... :-) By the way, what do you do when the form says, > > "Please fix your last name: No spaces allowed!" > > Do you just type daSilva? Peter's

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Wednesday, 13 November, 2019 14:56, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: >Peter da Silva, on Wednesday, November 13, 2019 04:37 PM, wrote... >> My last name has a space in it. It's been less than a month since the >> last time it was rejected by a form. One of my oldest online friends has >> only

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Peter da Silva, on Wednesday, November 13, 2019 04:37 PM, wrote... > > My last name has a space in it. It's been less than a month since the last > time it was rejected by a form. One of my oldest online friends has only > one name. Assume nothing, permit everything. We still need to know that

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

My last name has a space in it. It's been less than a month since the last time it was rejected by a form. One of my oldest online friends has only one name. Assume nothing, permit everything. On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, 15:23 Swithun Crowe, wrote: > Hello > > SS> Those are all excellent examples of

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 13 Nov 2019, at 8:25am, Wout Mertens wrote: > - How do I create an email greeting > - How do I create an address label > - How should I sort a list of names > - How should I show a logged in user > - How do you let the user fill in their name Wout is asking these question

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/13/19 3:25 AM, Wout Mertens wrote: > Fascinating discussion, and threads like this are why this is the only > mailing list that always triggers my "important" flag :) > > My problem with names isn't the number of fields needed to present them (I > liberally use JSON1), but the operations

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Fascinating discussion, and threads like this are why this is the only mailing list that always triggers my "important" flag :) My problem with names isn't the number of fields needed to present them (I liberally use JSON1), but the operations that are possible on them, and the UI needed to enter

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/12/19 2:42 PM, Michael Tiernan wrote: > On 11/10/19 1:21 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote: >> So what happens when someone from a family who only uses first- and >> last-names moves to Kansas? >> >> Do they have to make up a middle-name so that he idiots can fill out >> the forms? > > I am most

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/10/19 1:21 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote: So what happens when someone from a family who only uses first- and last-names moves to Kansas? Do they have to make up a middle-name so that he idiots can fill out the forms? I am most definitely not going to take one side or the other. My only

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Ha ha ha - Oh Simon.what *have* you done? [Apologies for the noise - could not resist this one.] On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 at 19:26, Simon Slavin wrote: > > Since I don't see many posts yet this weekend, please excuse one of mine > which isn't exactly on charter. Feel free to argue me out of

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

> On Nov 11, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > Compared to me, you are a genius in everything, but you just lack a little > bit of understanding about other languages and their localization behavior. > As a Technical Project Manager for 12 years on my last job, all of these

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Monday, 11 November, 2019 14:34, Richard Damon wrote: >Unicode has decreed that the highest code-point that can be called a >code-point is 0x10 because to go higher breaks UTF-16, so there >isn't as much room as you might think. >This give us 1,114,112 possible code points. >There are

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/19 2:57 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > Igor Tandetnik, on Monday, November 11, 2019 02:24 PM, wrote... >> On 11/11/2019 12:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> Writing 20 UTF-32 characters may ALSO print less than 20 glyphs to the >>> screen. >> Or more, depending on what you mean by

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 15:28 Tom Browder wrote: > See the entry point for the language at . > Oh, and there are Debian packages available, too. -Tom ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 15:18 Richard Damon wrote: > On 11/11/19 3:49 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 02:37 PM, wrote... > > Aaaah, my apologies. We are talking about different things. You are > talking about a combination of Unicodes vs. full,

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/19 3:49 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 02:37 PM, wrote... > >> No. > Aaaah, my apologies. We are talking about different things. You are talking > about a combination of Unicodes vs. full, character. I take it back. Yes, if > you are

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Nov 11, 2019, at 1:49 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > If there is a combination, is just like the accented e, é, why not use the > one character vs the combination? Big “if.” There isn’t always a pre-composed character. Typically, pre-composed characters exist in Unicode for

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Igor Tandetnik, on Monday, November 11, 2019 02:56 PM, wrote... > > On 11/11/2019 12:30 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > > > Igor Tandetnik, on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:02 AM, wrote... > >>> Most people have to figure out what Unicode they are using, count the > >>> bytes, divide > >>>

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 02:37 PM, wrote... > > No. Aaaah, my apologies. We are talking about different things. You are talking about a combination of Unicodes vs. full, character. I take it back. Yes, if you are combining these, then, of course, you are going to have to

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/2019 2:56 PM, Igor Tandetnik wrote: On 11/11/2019 12:30 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: Igor Tandetnik, on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:02 AM, wrote... Most people have to figure out what Unicode they are using, count the bytes, divide by... and on, and on.  Not me, I just take that

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Igor Tandetnik, on Monday, November 11, 2019 02:24 PM, wrote... > > On 11/11/2019 12:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > > Writing 20 UTF-32 characters may ALSO print less than 20 glyphs to the > > screen. > > Or more, depending on what you mean by "glyph". See e.g. U+FDFB (ARABIC > LIGATURE

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/2019 12:30 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: Igor Tandetnik, on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:02 AM, wrote... Most people have to figure out what Unicode they are using, count the bytes, divide by... and on, and on. Not me, I just take that UTF8, or UTF16 string, convert it to UTF32,

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/19 2:16 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 12:50 PM, wrote... > >> Writing 20 UTF-32 characters may ALSO print less than 20 glyphs to the >> screen. > This is not true, if the string has more or at least 20 UTF32 characters, and > you request 20

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Jens Alfke, on Monday, November 11, 2019 01:00 PM, wrote... > > > On Nov 11, 2019, at 9:39 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera, on > > > > However, space is cheap now > > It isn't. A sizable fraction of all software development is done for devices > with > under a megabyte of RAM. (IoT and embedded are huge

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/2019 12:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote: Writing 20 UTF-32 characters may ALSO print less than 20 glyphs to the screen. Or more, depending on what you mean by "glyph". See e.g. U+FDFB (ARABIC LIGATURE JALLAJALALOUHOU, https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/fdfb/index.htm ) or

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 12:50 PM, wrote... > Writing 20 UTF-32 characters may ALSO print less than 20 glyphs to the > screen. This is not true, if the string has more or at least 20 UTF32 characters, and you request 20 character while still talking UTF32, it will print 20.

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Jens Alfke, on Monday, November 11, 2019 12:47 PM, wrote... > > Hang on — why exactly 20 characters? Of text in an arbitrary language, which > is to be displayed in an arbitrary font, with an arbitrary line width? > > I don't know about you, but the only time I think about "exactly 20 >

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

> On Nov 11, 2019, at 9:39 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > However, space is cheap now It isn't. A sizable fraction of all software development is done for devices with under a megabyte of RAM. (IoT and embedded are huge markets.) And remember, we're talking on the email forum for a

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/19 12:39 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:19 AM, wrote... > >> UTF-32 is a reasonable internal operation format, if code-point >> operations are important. It does not make a good transmission format, > I agree. That is why, I have not

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/19 12:30 PM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > Igor Tandetnik, on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:02 AM, wrote... >> On 11/11/2019 10:49 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: >>> So, yes, it's bulky, but, if you want to count characters in languages such >>> as >>> Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese,

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

> On Nov 11, 2019, at 9:30 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > Say that I am writing a report and I only want to print the first 20 > characters of a string, that would be something like, Hang on — why exactly 20 characters? Of text in an arbitrary language, which is to be displayed in an

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:19 AM, wrote... > UTF-32 is a reasonable internal operation format, if code-point > operations are important. It does not make a good transmission format, I agree. That is why, I have not created any files for anything as UTF32 for delivery or

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

> On Nov 11, 2019, at 7:49 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > if you want to count characters in languages such as Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, > Japanese, etc., the easiest way is to convert that string to UTF32, and do a > string count of that UTF32 variable. No, the easiest way is to ask your

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Igor Tandetnik, on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:02 AM, wrote... > > On 11/11/2019 10:49 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > So, yes, it's bulky, but, if you want to count characters in languages such > > as > > Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese, etc., the easiest way is to convert that > >

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/19 12:13 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: > On 11 Nov 2019, at 4:02pm, Igor Tandetnik wrote: > >> And then what do you do with that count? What do you use it for? > This is a key point. When I started programming I used to do LEFT(A$(I), 14) > frequently. But almost all of them were because I

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11 Nov 2019, at 4:02pm, Igor Tandetnik wrote: > And then what do you do with that count? What do you use it for? This is a key point. When I started programming I used to do LEFT(A$(I), 14) frequently. But almost all of them were because I wanted to print the string and had allocated 14

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/19 10:49 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 09:47 AM, wrote... >> On 11/11/19 9:26 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: >>> Simon Slavin, on Monday, November 11, 2019 08:50 AM, wrote... On 11 Nov 2019, at 1:35pm, Jose Isaias Cabrera, on

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/2019 10:49 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: So, yes, it's bulky, but, if you want to count characters in languages such as Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese, etc., the easiest way is to convert that string to UTF32, and do a string count of that UTF32 variable. Between ligatures and

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Richard Damon, on Monday, November 11, 2019 09:47 AM, wrote... > > On 11/11/19 9:26 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > > Simon Slavin, on Monday, November 11, 2019 08:50 AM, wrote... > >> On 11 Nov 2019, at 1:35pm, Jose Isaias Cabrera, on > >> > >>> Not if the system uses UTF32. :-) You could put

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/11/19 9:26 AM, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > Simon Slavin, on Monday, November 11, 2019 08:50 AM, wrote... >> On 11 Nov 2019, at 1:35pm, Jose Isaias Cabrera, on >> >>> Not if the system uses UTF32. :-) You could put the pictograph in that that >>> textbox, and it'll work. >> Can you point to

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Simon Slavin, on Monday, November 11, 2019 08:50 AM, wrote... > > On 11 Nov 2019, at 1:35pm, Jose Isaias Cabrera, on > > > Not if the system uses UTF32. :-) You could put the pictograph in that that > > textbox, and it'll work. > > Can you point to some description of this and how it works ?

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11 Nov 2019, at 1:35pm, Jose Isaias Cabrera wrote: > Not if the system uses UTF32. :-) You could put the pictograph in that that > textbox, and it'll work. Can you point to some description of this and how it works ? I've never heard of it. ___

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Richard Damon, on Sunday, November 10, 2019 07:01 AM, wrote... > Actually, 'The Artist whose name formerly was Prince' (which wasn't his > name, his legal name was an unpronounceable pictograph), breaks every > computer system I know. Not if the system uses UTF32. :-) You could put the

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

> On Nov 10, 2019, at 4:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > > Actually, 'The Artist whose name formerly was Prince' (which wasn't his > name, his legal name was an unpronounceable pictograph), breaks every > computer system I know. Unicode Character PRINCE (U+1F934)

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

And "full legal name" How about my dad, whose full name was Dr. John Michael Patrick Dennis Emmet O'Gorman, PhD. How many rules does that break? I've fought many companies over that apostrophe in my life. Governments tend to throw it away, but it's on my old passport and birth certificate.

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 11/10/19 1:21 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote: > On 10/11/2019 13:44, Doug wrote: >> Au Contraire, Jens! In many local contexts you can normalize people's >> names. I was born in Kansas, USA. My parents filled out a birth >> certificate for me. It had a place on the form for first name, middle >>

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 10 Nov 2019, at 6:21am, Gary R. Schmidt wrote: > So what happens when someone from a family who only uses first- and > last-names moves to Kansas? In my time with databases, I encountered several USAsians with a middle name of 'Nmn'. I know many USAsian people but nobody with this name.

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On 10/11/2019 13:44, Doug wrote: Au Contraire, Jens! In many local contexts you can normalize people's names. I was born in Kansas, USA. My parents filled out a birth certificate for me. It had a place on the form for first name, middle name, last name, and a suffix like II or III. That

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

correct. Within each > system, the assumption works, and is valid. > > My two cents... > Doug > >> -Original Message- >> From: sqlite-users >> On Behalf Of Jens Alfke >> Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 5:11 PM >> To: SQLite mailing list >&

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

ts... Doug > -Original Message- > From: sqlite-users > On Behalf Of Jens Alfke > Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 5:11 PM > To: SQLite mailing list > Subject: Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store > names > > On Nov 9, 2019, at 1:09 PM, sky5w...@gmail.

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Nov 9, 2019, at 1:09 PM, sky5w...@gmail.com wrote: > > In this case, data modelers hoping to save a column. arrggg. > It flies in the face of data normalization and pushes the problem down the > line. But you _cannot_ normalize people’s names; that’s the exact point of that article. Anything

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

On Nov 9, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: > > Every time I saw a field called 'firstname' or 'second name' or 'surname' or > 'familyname' I groaned. I just had a fight with my insurance company who had me sign up for their new web portal, which only asked for first and last name, but

Re: [sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Ok, I'll bite. The 'current consensus' in any system is tenuous and not an arbiter of its effectiveness. In this case, data modelers hoping to save a column. arrggg. It flies in the face of data normalization and pushes the problem down the line. Forgive my simple linear thinking on the immensely

[sqlite] Things you shouldn't assume when you store names

Since I don't see many posts yet this weekend, please excuse one of mine which isn't exactly on charter. Feel free to argue me out of posting in personal (offlist) email. In a previous job I got to see databases made up by all sorts of other people and organisations. Every time I saw a field