Re: Migrating FF profiles to Seamonkey
Jonathan N. Little wrote, on 03 Dec 18 19:43: Alexander Yudenitsch wrote: I think that, for versions of SM up to 2.53 and FF up to 52.9ESR, migrating profile data between them is possible, although just copying all files directly may be problematic, since some of these files (including prefs.js) contain 'physical' addresses, specific to each program/OS, so that, to synchronize/transfer some of the data, you have to make the necessary substitutions in the files' content. Mostly for download file location MRUs and some extension locations, but does not cause problems moving. Have moved profiles drag 'n drop from Windows to Linux with no problem whatsoever and the profile paths are very different. I think the extension paths within prefs.js get autogenerated and get "fixed" upon first run. Yes, I always suspected SM/FF does that, but have never seen any confirmation anywhere, plus I'm very wary of "autogenerated fixes" (it did work fine in one instance but, with several versions involving XP/W7-SM/FF, the chances of 'wrong guesses' shouldn't be forgotten), so I try to make the changes manually, editing the files involved. -- Best, s) Alexander Yudenitsch ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Migrating FF profiles to Seamonkey
Hawker wrote, on 03 Dec 18 01:51: I know it is ancient, but it still seems to work. Mozbackup lets you select what you back up and what parts you restore. It has not be updated in years but I used it about a year ago to restore a profile and it seemed to still work just fine. http://mozbackup.jasnapaka.com/ Yes, but I think Nuno Silva's query was a different one: (...) I still have a few user profiles left in Firefox. What would be the best way to move these profiles to Seamonkey? I would like to preserve as much of the original profiles as possible and MozBackup is for backuping to the same browser (ie, SM --> SM). I think that, for versions of SM up to 2.53 and FF up to 52.9ESR, migrating profile data between them is possible, although just copying all files directly may be problematic, since some of these files (including prefs.js) contain 'physical' addresses, specific to each program/OS, so that, to synchronize/transfer some of the data, you have to make the necessary substitutions in the files' content. -- Best, s) Alexander Yudenitsch ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SEA MONKEY PROBLEMS URGENT
Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote, on 20 Nov 18 07:23: So, SM 2.57 should support web extensions AND XUL (legacy) extensions? > Yes. Legacy extensions will have the same limitations as in TB60 and might need changes if they are not trivial ones. For me, that means "No", not "Yes": Support with "limitations [that] might need changes" isn't really 'supporting' them; maybe "SM 2.57 and TB 60 will tolerate some XUL (legacy) extensions" better expresses how I feel about it. Actually, that's what I was expecting all along, including from what you said previously about this, but I was so surprised by the apparent change that I had to write. Different meanings for the same word, then... and my intent to stop at SM 53 remains in place. -- Best, s) Alexander Yudenitsch ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SEA MONKEY PROBLEMS URGENT
Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote, on 17 Nov 18 13:30: SeaMonkey 2.57 will arrive with web extension support (not yet there) and should in theory then support newer versions. So, SM 2.57 should support web extensions AND XUL (legacy) extensions? -- Best, s) Alexander Yudenitsch ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Possible to have e-mail links open in default browser?
David wrote, on 19 Aug 18 14:18: While I realize that Seamonkey may view itself as a one-in-all package, I personally would only like to use the e-mail client, since I prefer current Firefox for browsing. But of course copying/pasting links is kind of annoying. Is it possible to change how links are opened somewhere? Didn't find anything in the options myself... If you want to use SeaMonkey only as an e-mail client but prefer another browser for browsing the internet this extension can help you. It allows you to set up a default browser for opening links from Mail & Newsgroups windows. https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/seamonkey/addon/standalone-seamonkey-mail/?src=cb-dl-users -- Best, s) Alexander Yudenitsch ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Seamonkey stupid
Jonathan N. Little wrote, on 11 Apr 18 17:33: If SeaMonkey saved a draft automatically on every canceled message I foresee a number of folks with burgeoning draft folders... If I create a draft, edit it, and then try to cancel the edited draft, I get a pop-up window asking: Message has not been sent. Do you want to save the message in your drafts folder (Drafts)? 'Save' 'Don't Save' 'Cancel' -- Best, s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey 2.48 released!
Edmund Wong wrote, on 31 Jul 17 05:01: After so long a delay, for which we apologize, the SeaMonkey Project is pleased to announce the release of SeaMonkey 2.48! We cannot repeat this enough. Thank you everyone for your patience with us. This very long delay due to infrastructure and resource issues has been very trying on a lot of people. And I'm sure every one of the users of SeaMonkey understands all the difficulties and hurdles which ou all face and surmount, and can never thank you enough! -- Best, s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Advanced Message Search Tweak
Anybody know how to 'tweak' the SeaMonkey 'Advanced Message Search' (for finding specific messages which meet certain criteria) so that the first 'option' shown in the first drop-down will be "Body" and not "Subject"? Since 95% of my searches start using the message 'body' (contents), it's the one I want, and every time I have to select it instead of "Subject", which is the first/default option... There doesn't seem to be any way to customize this detail and, after over 20 years of usingNetscape/Mozilla Suite/SeaMonkey, I'm still slightly frustrated about this. :-( -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Online forms
Anybody know which SeaMonkey extension(s) allows spell-checking in online forms and/or changing their dimensions at will, even if not originally programmed to do that? -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Fastmail and SeaMonkey
on SM 40 for now, but I recall that it's something which is a 'no turning back': Sure, a backup can be restored, but once you start using the new one for everyday use, going back is very difficult and time-consuming -- and recall it was something I might only realize wasn't working for me some time onward... So, since I can upgrade any time (I kept SM 39 for quite some time before I felt safe going to 40), I decided to wait. So, currently I'm on the 'reverse position': Unless I find any compelling reason to upgrade to 2.46 (and 'enhanced security' wouldn't be it; as you can see, I'm still using Win XP, and only now migrating to Win 7, and due to version incompatibilities, NOT security ones), I'll stay on 2.40 for now, until I have time and slice-of-mind to make sure the change won't be for the worse, IN MY CASE. -- Thanks for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Fastmail and SeaMonkey
Hi, Frank-Rainer Grahl! Thanks for writing, on 06 Mar 17 07:23: maybe it has absolutely nothing to do with the SM version, but it's something in your system that is different from mine (eg, I'm using XP on this machine; I'll try it on a W7 one when I get the chance): If you were running 2.40, perhaps you would also have no problems with this site... You could try with a new test profile. I doubt that running XP makes a difference unless its about HTML5 content. As I just said in a reply to Daniel: since I do get that login page OK on my XP 32-bit FireFox 41, my problem isn't finding a way to access it: It's discovering why my SM 40 on 32-bit XP cannot (exactly because it seems that, besides a very efficient 'version-sniffing' from FM, there doesn't seem to be any reason for that, and I'd like to understand why that happens). So, even if I tried a new profile and it worked, I still wouldn't be much closer to discovering the reason for it not working now, and THAT's what I'd like. There were really tons of changes between 2.40 and 2.46 and not only in the Gecko engine. I ran all versions between 2.40 and 2.46 and around 2.42 I noticed a considerable speed improvement. But some also noticed a regression so you just need to try it out yourself. Unless it's very noticeable, I wouldn't care too much about 'speed' -- and, as you said, it seems to vary depending on each specific system configuration, so that probably wouldn't motivate me either way. As I said before, I don't have much free time right now (and one of the reasons is that I'm migrating to a dual-boot XP/W7 system, so discovering, and learning to handle, the differences about programs on these SOs (much more work than I expected) takes up much time. I really would like (including for my own sake) to remember why I decided to keep on SM 40 for now, but I recall that it's something which is a 'no turning back': Sure, a backup can be restored, but once you start using the new one for everyday use, going back is very difficult and time-consuming -- and recall it was something I might only realize wasn't working for me some time onward... So, since I can upgrade any time (I kept SM 39 for quite some time before I felt safe going to 40), I decided to wait. Other than the default search engine bug for which there is a workaround and the Data Manager hang probably caused by old cruft in webappsstore.sqlite (just rename or delete it) I am not aware of any widespread problems with 2.46. I don't think it was a "widespread problem", but it might be something which may not be important to many, but was a problem for some, and it seemed it might be so for me, too -- but, unfortunately, I can't recall what it was, and don't want to use my time now looking for it, and I'll be sure to keep an eye for anything which is relevant to this, and post it here if I do find it within a reasonable time period. I am more concerned now with 2.48+ because there are some reports of it crashing when using mail and news. Hits some users all the time and others never. Mostly on Linux. Something's tugging at my memory on reading that, suggesting the problem I mention was a consequence of something done in Gecko/FF, which made a change in SM 46, causing that unwanted result (so, it wouldn't be changed on any version after 46)... Absolutely no software is "error free", either, and all SM (and FF) versions have always been free so that's not relevant too... Was mean't as a joke :) So was my reply! :-)) Seriously probably some new js features did the trick. Since it isn't clear that the version difference had anything to do with it, that's just a speculation... Yes but I had some problems with pages in 2.40 which did go away in later versions. There were really improvements in HTML5 compatibility and the JS interpreter. Noe THAT is somewhat encouraging, and it might be compatible with my not getting a login denial on my XP 32-bit FireFox 41, but getting it on my XP 32-bit SeaMonkey 40! -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Fastmail and SeaMonkey
Hi, Daniel! Thanks for writing, on 06 Mar 17 06:35: https://www.fastmail.com/login/ Clicking that link took me and my SM 2.46 on Win7 WOW directly to a log-in page. Thanks for the info, but it still isn't much help: As I said, I still haven't tried it on a Win7 SM (migration should happen RealSoonNow...), and I'm not using 2.46 or a 64 system; so, since (as I said before) I do get that login page OK on my XP 32-bit FireFox 41, my problem isn't finding a way to access it: It's discovering why my SM 40 on 32-bit XP cannot (exactly because it seems that, besides a very efficient 'version-sniffing' from FM, there doesn't seem to be any reason for that, and I'd like to understand why that happens). -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Fastmail and SeaMonkey
Hi, Frank-Rainer Grahl! Thanks for the quick reply: Meaning that you couldn't do that in 2.40? Meaning I didn't even try. So, maybe it has absolutely nothing to do with the SM version, but it's something in your system that is different from mine (eg, I'm using XP on this machine; I'll try it on a W7 one when I get the chance): If you were running 2.40, perhaps you would also have no problems with this site... From what I've seen in this and other forums, I think I'll stay on 2.40 until I have very strong reasons to do otherwise... 2.46 is not error free but miles ahead of 2.40. Backup you profile and just try it. Its free and 2.40 is completely unsupported now. If you encounter an error which hasn't been reported just do so. "Unsupported" in this context is meaningless: What kind of 'support' do we have for 2.46? Besides forums (which should work equally well for 2.40), I doubt there's any hope of any one-on-one support for any SM version, now and in the foreseeable future: If the devs manage to keep up with needed new versions, we'll all be very thankful (as am I , always). Absolutely no software is "error free", either, and all SM (and FF) versions have always been free so that's not relevant too... You do imply a valid query: What, exactly, led me to decide to not migrate to 2.46 now? While I have seen many advantages (though they hardly sound "miles ahead of 2.40", IMHO), there were a few points which led to this decision, but I've now 'deleted' them from my 'memory', leaving only the conclusion; since that seems worthwhile, I will try to recover exactly which were these points (I seem to recall just 2, but enough to counterbalance any not-important-to-me advantages), and post it here when I do, but I don't have much free time right now, so that may take a while. So, I'm interested again: What changes after 2.40 would lead to the Fastmail 'new' site opening, while it didn't in 2.40? Probably nothing in SeaMonkey but take your pick and see if you can find a Gecko change which did it. Only a few thousand files changed :) Ha, ha! Seriously probably some new js features did the trick. Since it isn't clear that the version difference had anything to do with it, that's just a speculation... If you change cookie settings at most a browser restart is required. Should pick them up even so but you never know... If a different OS (W7) and/or reboot with cookie rules have any effect, I'll let you know. I still hope to fond someone who is actually a FastMail and SM user, and has already faced this problem. -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Fastmail and SeaMonkey
Hi, Frank-Rainer Grahl! Thanks for wroting, on 05 Mar 17 14:09: I can access the login page out of the box in 2.51. Meaning that you couldn't do that in 2.40? What changes after 2.40 would lead to that? If you still use 2.40 please upgrade to 2.46. From what I've seen in this and other forums, I think I'll stay on 2.40 until I have very strong reasons to do otherwise... So, I'm interested again: What changes after 2.40 would lead to the Fastmail 'new' site opening, while it didn't in 2.40? If you have custom cookie settings make sure that at least session cookies get enabled. I "accept cookies normally" but "allow third-party ones for previously visted websites only" (which is the same setting I have in FF -- and there it worked, so I guess it isn't this) -- and I tried changing the global prefernce to just accepting all cookies, and the page still wouldn't load in SM; maybe a reboot was necessary, over and above a restart of SM? -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Fastmail and SeaMonkey
I use the Fastmail service for e-mail, and have been a user for many yeras (currently a sort of 'legacy user', since they've changed owners and systems several times over the years). FastMail has been on a new site for several years, but have kept a 'classic version' for legacy users; however, in June they'll stop supporting it, but using SeaMonkey their system says: Sorry, your browser does not support the technologies needed to use our web interface. Please make sure you have the latest version, and that JavaScript is enabled. Learn more about our browser requirements: To use our web interface, you must have - Javascript enabled - Cookies enabled Cookies - Like all sites, we use these as part of our system for secure authentication. Our site does not have any ads: the only cookies set are from us and we do not use cookies for any other purpose other than authentication. For the best experience While we make our best effort to support older versions of browsers wherever possible, we can only support the latest version. At the least you'll need: Internet Explorer 8+ (but rich text editing requires IE9+) Microsoft Edge Firefox 3.6+ Chrome Safari 5.1+ Opera 12.17+ No changes to JS (general or in the tab, using PrefBar), SM User Agents and/or "advertise FF compatibility" helped, but opening the page in FF worked right away -- so, I think the difference must be something 'localized'. Are there any other FastMail users on this Forum, or (maybe even if not) someone may have some idea besides what I described above? The site to 'open in SM' is: https://www.fastmail.com/login/ -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: WYSIWYG printing?
Paul B. Gallagher wrote, on 05 Mar 17 03:02: Many website nowadays have their own "Print" buttons that deliver what the designers consider "printer-friendly" versions of their pages. But even if I ignore those and use SeaMonkey's own "Print" function, many sites outsmart me by serving their "printer-friendly" versions. A prime example is <http://www.nytimes.com>. Pick any page and print it, and you'll find that you've lost all the graphics, fonts, and layout and gotten only a plain-text version of the page. Does anyone know how to outsmart these sites and print the pages as received, complete with all the bells and whistles? Conversely, for pages that are too fancy/fussy for my taste and don't serve dumbed-down versions on their own, is there a way for the user to select that? A screen-capture program might work, but most pages you'll want to print won't conveniently fit on one monitor/screen, so the 'scrolling' mode would have to be used, and that frequently doesn't work well. I tested the NYT page with SnagIt 7, and it captures what's on screen fine (and can print that), but haven't managed to make the scrolling work (and disabling add-ons and/or AV/ZA/etc didn't help). Since, as Steve Dunn pointed out, the page's HTML is commanding this behavior, I guess the only way to circumvent it is by 'impersonating' a printer, like a screen-capture app does; maybe other such programs will solve this problem better... -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Just wondering............
Paul B. Gallagher wrote, on 03 Feb 17 20:23: Mr. Ed wrote: Just wondering why the majority of the posts do not mention, in the Subject, The OS and SM version together. While it's true that some (many?) bugs will have an effect on more than one OS or SM version we would not have to look at message headers to determine what could be a simple entry in the Subject field. Probably because: 1) Most posters assume that readers can easily do CTRL-U to see that info in the OP's message header (assuming they're posting with the relevant version of SM/OS); 2) Many posters mention that info in their message body, which is more convenient for the reader; 3) Some posters are forgetful, rude, etc. I personally agree that the SM version should be mentioned in the subject, but since I read all posts anyway, it's all the same to me. Also, many posts are not OS/version-specific -- like this thread, frinstance... :-) -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey with Copernic search
George wrote, on 31 Jan 17 10:11: I'm a user of Copernic Desktop Search. It's frustrating that SeaMonkey and Copernic don't co-exist. Any chance of that changing? Or, does SeaMonkey work on TEXT searches in emails with any other similar desktop search apps? The SeaMonkey built-in search is not user-friendly. The SM Mail search is one of the main reasons I keep using SM; it may not be very 'user friendly', but it's the most powerful search I ever found -- and, a few years back I did look at Copernic, hoping to find a similarly powerful search for the all the contents of my system, but it appeared that, besides not doing that, it even didn't work with SM (only TB), so I stopped trying. What I find most useful in SM Mail search is the ability to add "match all/match any" (usually the former) for an unlimited amount of 'logical rules' (like "subject contains X" AND "date is before 07/08/09" AND "body contains 'george'" AND "body does not contain 'mac'"), allowing me to usually pinpoint a specific message from over 10 years' worth, distributed in about 100 folders and sub-folders -- and that 'Boolean logic' is very rare among search engines of any type (I suppose it's not very user-friendly, but for me it's VERY useful). Also, Copernic (like Windows itself) wants to index everything, which SM doesn't need to furnish quick and accurate search results. I'd LOVE to find any 'general' search engines with characteristics similar to SM Mail Search, specially if it doesn't need indexing, but so far haven't found any. Maybe there is 'more than one way to skin a cat', and I'm missing it? -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: downloaded SM2.49a1
J. Weaver Jr. wrote, on 15 nov 16 03:22: Ed Mullen wrote: Composer should be dropped. It is decades out of touch with HTML and CSS standards. It produces totally crappy code that won't validate. Kill Composer. It serves no useful valid purpose. Rip the code out and slim down SeaMonkey. Hear hear! It's a large bundle of code with no modern purpose. -JW I don't much care whether a 'purpose' is "modern" or not, but I do occasionally use Composer to edit web pages for printing optimization: Taking out not-wanted items, doing a little rearrangement and editing, so a printout will be optimized for the person/purpose it's meant for. Even the 'print' function isn't working, but 'print preview' is, and it does allow printing after that. Of course, I never 'save' the edited pages, because after the printout my 'purpose' is accomplished... and I don't know any other way to achieve it without Composer! So, I hope it remains as a part of SM for a long time. -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Migrating SM from WinXP to Win7
through the WXP->W7 migration would have a handy 'cheat list' of ALL those locations... or, as I already said in a post I just wrote about this: Perhaps you, or someone else, could list exactly which 'settings' would have to get pathname corrections (ie, the filenames, at least -- and the specific paths involved, if possible); plus, I'm worried that some extensions or addons could incorporate path/filenames in their data also: Does anyone know if that happens, and in which ones? Also, since every extension creator does things his/er own way, the location of their specific data/files varies widely, too (I only recently found that they even can use the "about:config" to to do that), so I dread reinstalling the -- but, still, as I said: I'm ready to 'start from scratch' and reinstall all extensions, but want to keep my 'history' -- which, since it's been incorporated into "places.sqlite", is sort of a "black box", so I don't know how I can 'migrate' it after a clean uninstall (specially since it's a database, not just a JS file). I guess the use of extensions is as varied as the SM users are, so there may not be any one place where there is record of such addresses; but, hopefully, most won't at least use 'absolute addresses' (ie, hard-coded physical addresses in the OS's system)... Most of most days, I'm running a minimum of two different SM versions and three different FF versions at once. I've been running multiple Mozillas at once for over a decade. I'm not a software developer of any kind. ATM on this machine, I have 10 FF profiles and 6 SM profiles. I have several Windows installations with SM installed too, though use them very little, maybe an hour a month or less on average. Managing profiles is really not hard, only unfamiliar, because need to arises so infrequently. SM (and FF) users are really blessed to have what we have persist so well over time and through OS upgrades. While I know it's possible, I think I won't try to have one Profile which will be used simultaneously by XP and W7 versions of SM: That way, I suspect there's too much chance of unnecessary confusions (by me and/or by the system). I also have an installation of FireFox, because some sites, which have problems in SM, work fine with FF, so I use the "Open With" extension to remedy such situations with the least effort (BTW, the FF installation seems to copy many SM options and data without even asking; any guidelines for that?). -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Migrating SM from WinXP to Win7
EE wrote, on 29 Oct 16 18:37: You could let SeaMonkey set up a new profile and then dump the contents of the old profile into the new one. You might have to change a few pathnames in the settings afterwards. As I said, that's one possible path I'm exploring... but perhaps you, or someone else, could list exactly which 'settings' would have to get pathname corrections (ie, the filenames, at least -- and the specific paths involved, if possible); plus, I'm worried that some extensions or addons could incorporate path/filenames in their data also: Does anyone know if that happens, and in which ones? -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
Hi, everybody (or anybody, since this thread seems to have 'petered out', with no posts for nearly 3 weeks)! I guess I'll just post an update on the progress I managed to achieve on the subject of "SM Mail and text encoding", with the help of the previous responses and comments, and leave as 'pending' some points which I raised, and which nobody commented on -- and, forthwith, I'll be opening 2 new threads about "Migrating SM profile from WinXP to Win7", and "Javascript in SeaMonkey", since these seem to be interrelated, but independent and different problems. First, let me emphasize that, operationally, my original problem has been solved, thanks to you: It was that, when I compose a large message with parts in English and parts in another language, and make several drafts, each time the draft is re-opened for further editing, parts of it have been changed by SM, usually involving 'High ASCII'. The solution, which has been working since then, is to use F8 to open the draft in the message pane and, if it shows gibberish, another F8 closes it, and a third one re-opens the pane, with the gibberish gone, so that the draft can then be opened for editing and saved, with no gibberish. Since it seems this really is a bug (and Mark Bourne has reported it), maybe the parts I'm still hazy about aren't worth thinking about (since the bug correction might change details anyway, if it's ever corrected), but I'll try to sum up my doubts about all those variables in SM/Mail involving text encoding and fonts: - In the "Folder Properties / Fallback text encoding" options: .. Unicode (UTF-8) .. Arabic .. (etc, etc.) .. Vietnamese .. Western ( ) Apply encoding to all messages in the folder (individual message text encoding settings and auto-detection will be ignored) If the latter option isn't checked, what's the option for, since the folder has (supposedly) already-received messages, which don't need editing? Does it mean that SM would try to use the chosen text encoding to display messages in the folder, if they don't have any encoding attached to them? Besides the above point about Folder Properties, what should be the best options in the other 'text encoding' options/preferences for someone who is trying to 'standardize' on Unicode for all sent/received messages, namely: - In "Preferences / Appearance / Fonts" options: .. Fonts for: [Western/CentralEuropean/.../Unicode/UserDefined] .. [Proportional/Serif/Sans-serif/Cursive/Fantasy/Monospace] ( ) Allow documents to use other fonts Can these options affect the 'text encoding' problem, or are they a different matter entirely? - In "Preferences / Mail & Newsgroups / Text Encoding" options: . Message Display - Fallback text encoding: .. Default for current locale .. Arabic .. Baltic .. Central European .. (etc.) .. Vietnamese .. Other, including Western European . Composing messages - Default text encoding: .. Default for current locale .. Arabic .. Baltic .. Central European .. (etc.) .. Vietnamese .. Other, including Western European ( ) For messages that contain 8-bit characters, use 'quoted printable' MIME Encoding; leave unchecked to leave message as is ( ) When possible, use this default text encoding in replies (When unchecked, only new messages use this default) - In Mail/News 'New message compose' window menus: . Options / text encoding: .. Unicode .. Western .. Arabic .. (etc, etc.) .. Vietnamese - In Mail/News 'View messages' windows menus: . View / text encoding: .. Auto-detect: Off / Japanese / Russian /Ukrainian .. Unicode .. Western .. Arabic .. (etc, etc.) .. Vietnamese - In Mail/News 'View messages' folders pane: . Folder Properties / Fallback text encoding: .. Unicode (UTF-8) .. Arabic .. (etc, etc.) .. Vietnamese .. Western ( ) Apply encoding to all messages in the folder (individual message text encoding settings and auto-detection will be ignored) -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Migrating SM from WinXP to Win7
I'm currently migrating from using SM on WinXP to a XP/7 dual-boot system, so my query has two 'prongs': Migrating SM from WinXP to Win7, and saving information from a previous profile to a new one (which I'm sure is a devious and tricky one, since I'm after specific details, and not generic advice, and realize there may not be anyone with such advice available here when I write). I know that, if you leave a SM Profile after uninstalling the SM program, when you reinstall it, this Profile is recognized by the installation, and SM is installed ready to continue using the Profile -- That works fine if you're using the same OS for both installations, or if both OS's have the same directory structure: E.g., when going from Win2K to WinXP, there's no (or minimal) need to adjust anything, since both have practically the same file structure and names (besides the "WINXP/WINDOWS" change); however, since XP and W7 use quite different file structures and names, I'm stumped about how to use this 'natural migration' which SM tends to use. Just to what happens, I installed the same SM version I have on XP to a W7 'temporary install', and saw that files are assigned to W7 (sub-)directories which don't even exist in XP, and am uncertain if I'll know where my existing profile files would go (I imagine I'd have to manually edit some .INI and .JS files to reflect these changes -- but, again,from what to what? Where can I find this correspondence? The other part of the problem is that I've been migrating/evolving this Profile since 1995, using Netscape, then MozSuite, and now SM, installing and uninstalling many add-ons/extensions over time, so there must be lots of unnecessary and/or problematic data left behind, because sometimes uninstalling doesn'1t clear the add-on's data. I'm ready to 'start from scratch' and reinstall all extensions, but want to keep my 'history' -- which, since it's been incorporated into "places.sqlite", is sort of a "black box", so I don't know how I can 'migrate' it after a clean uninstall. I'm not sure if the above is enough to describe the problem, but so far I'm between two unsatisfactory options: Leave all the data from my current profile when I install SM on W7 (I presume it's possible to determine exactly where each file 'should' go), and try to clear up what's possible without risking the current data; OR, make a clean install, and then migrate the add-ons data (including "places.sqlite") to the new Profile, which seems to have a high probability of making the Profile unusable! An added problem is that, for many months now, I've been having more and more problems with javascript in SM (at least, it seems to be JS: I installed FireFox for comparison, and that install seems to have copied much of he SM options, but still the same sites don't have the JS problems, while they do in SM), but I think it's best to leave that aside for now, and maybe open a new thread for this, unless someone says it's directly related to the migration/data problem I described above. -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Request confirmation of bug 1309711 - email corruption due to incorrect charset detection
mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote, on 12 out 16 18:11: Following discussion in the thread "SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding", I've raised bug 1309711 <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309711> "Corruption of draft messages and incorrect display due to incorrect charset detection". In summary, under some conditions SeaMonkey uses the wrong character set when opening emails. This can lead to corruption of draft messages. I've reproduced this with a clean profile with SeaMonkey 2.40 on Windows Vista. It would be great if a few others could follow the steps to reproduce on other systems to confirm whether the issue affects: - Other operating systems (Linux, Mac) - Newer versions (I believe a number of people here are using an alpha/nightly 2.46?) Yay, Mark! Thanks. -- Thanks for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote, on 12 out 16 18:20: Bug 1309711 raised: <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1309711> I've posted a separate thread asking others to reproduce on other operating systems / newer versions, in case anyone who's stopped following this thread is able to test. And I saw that before this (noticed you were the poster...), and replied: Yay, Mark! Thanks. -- Thanks for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote, on 10 out 16 15:48: It seems that SeaMonkey correctly detects the encoding when opening messages in the "message pane", but doesn't actually use that encoding until the next message is opened, and doesn't detect the encoding at all when opening them in a separate window (just using the last-detected encoding from the message pane). That also affects opening previously saved drafts. So, for example: - Start composing a message with UTF-8 encoding (like Paul, that's my default) and include a character not covered by the standard ASCII set (in my case, usually "£") - Save as draft and close that message. - View, in the message pane (View > Layout > Message Pane or press F8), another email which uses a different encoding (e.g. us-ascii) - Re-open the draft - The "£" now appears as "£" (it just happens that in this case the second character is the same as the original single character, but that's not necessarily the case for all characters) No amount of closing and re-opening the draft seems to fix that. However: - Select the draft in the thread pane - Open the message pane (View > Layout > Message Pane or press F8) - It looks wrong there too, and saving the draft again at this point will compound the problem. However... - Close the message pane - Open the message pane - It now looks correct, and double-clicking to open the message for further editing is now also correct. To be honest, I've got to the point where I barely notice this and just automatically tap F8 a couple of times when a message isn't displayed correctly. That it's become an automatic reaction isn't a particularly good sign, but that may be a workaround until the problem is fixed properly. Hooray! That works on my system too, exactly as you described it!! I edited the one of the 'offending' drafts (a long one, mixing standard and extended ASCII), correcting all the gibberish I could find (*) to the correct symbols, and saved it, hen opened another message; after that,I selected the 'target draft' and, with F8, opened it in the message pane: Bingo, it showed gibberish again! Another F8 closed it, and a third one re-opened the pane -- and the gibberish was gone! I then opened the draft for editing, saved it, and the same "3xF8" got the same results: Now, it's edited, and showing no gibberish. I hope I'll be able to remember the "3xF8" routine from now on, despite years of an ingrained different habit... As I said, I don't like or use the message pane, and will try and see if there's a way to make this workaround work without the pane (perhaps you have some suggestions?) but, if not, I'll just have to get used to the "3xF8" technique you described... Thanks a lot for sharing your experience! Maybe you, or someone reading this, could shed some light on these "Folder Properties / Fallback text encoding" options: .. Unicode (UTF-8) .. Arabic .. (etc, etc.) .. Vietnamese .. Western ( ) Apply encoding to all messages in the folder (individual message text encoding settings and auto-detection will be ignored) If the latter option isn't checked, what's the option for, since the folder has (supposedly) already-received messages, which don't need editing? Does it mean that SM would try to use the chosen text encoding to display messages in the folder, if they don't have any encoding attached to them? -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote, on 11 Oct 16 17:30: Alexander Yudenitsch wrote: A happy coincidence that you decided to do so, since I already had the intention of writing you, to ask for details about your migration of SM from XP to W7 -- but let's leave that for a little later, OK? I distinctly remember someone on this forum commenting on how he (yes, it was a 'he', AFAIK) had migrated a profile from XP to W7, and I thought that was you; well, apparently not... I did try to find that message among the hundreds of the 'current' batch but, not remembering what was the 'nominal' subject, I guess its hopeless. You can search the archives from this list via Google Groups at <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey>. Thanks, but I avoid Google Groups if I can; I have signed into them out of necessity, but I imagine I'd have to sign onto this group in order to do a search, and I prefer not to do that. A couple of recent threads involving moving profiles around are titled "If I remplace the directory C:\Users\RZ\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\SeaMonkey" and "Installing SM 2.40 and Relations To Different Drive". You may also want to take a look at <http://kb.mozillazine.org/Moving_your_profile_folder>. Thanks, again! I did look around a little, and had seen those threads also (and one of them was the one I was referring to, in the text quoted above) If you have queries about migrating your SeaMonkey profile from one OS to another, the best thing is to create a new message addressed to this list / newsgroup with an appropriate subject line. Don't reply to a message from this thread about a different problem, as some people ignore threads about things they can't help with or aren't interested in, so those who might be able to help with that different problem might not see a reply to a message in this thread. Of course! Notice that I did say to Paul: "let's leave that for a little later", because I do have the intention of opening another thread for that. I just commented on that because I thought he was the one who had written the messages I had seen about the migration, and thought it was a coincidence that he was the first one to reply. In fact, my query has two 'prongs': Migrating SM from WinXP to Win7, and saving information from a previous profile to a new one (which I'm sure is a devious and tricky one, since I'm after specific details, and not generic advice, and realize there may not be anyone with such advice available here when I write). -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote, on 11 Oct 16 18:52: ... the main point would be that SM seems to open or show messages using the 'last-used' text encoding, not the one specified in the e-mail's properties (which, IMHO, should be considered a bug). I agree this doesn't seem right. It's been a minor annoyance for me for a while, and I keep meaning to look into it a bit more and file a bug report. I've managed to produce a couple of example messages and reproduce the use of incorrect encodings when opening them, including corrupting a draft message. I'm out of time tonight, but hopefully will be able to file a bug report tomorrow... From what I've seen in this forum, filing a bug report may be useful for SM development, but is unlikely to bring quick results, since the devs have so much more, and more important, things to attend to (and I do appreciate and thank them all for their efforts and helpfulness). If that's true, filing a bug report would definitely be a good thing, but personally I'll have to concentrate on workarounds (or process steps) which will allow me to no longer have this problem in the immediate future. As I said, I'm currently migrating to a XP/7 dual-boot system, so I can't concentrate on that, but all the comments and suggestions given here so far have indicated several things I can try out without too much effort/time; what I'm still unsure of is how I should define all those variables in SM/Mail involving text encoding and fonts in a coherent manner, adequate to a multi-language mail 'system'... -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote, on 11 Oct 16 17:14:
That also affects opening previously saved drafts. So, for example:
- Start composing a message with UTF-8 encoding (like Paul, that's my
default) and include a character not covered by the standard ASCII set
(in my case, usually "£") ...
Interesting. What you call "standard ASCII" is what we used to call
"high ASCII."
By "standard ASCII", I meant the first 128 characters. "£" is one of the
extended characters in some charsets. In UTF-8, it's encoded as a
two-byte sequence. Hence when an email containing "£" encoded in UTF-8
is decoded using an extended ASCII charset, it appears as two separate
characters.
The first 128 characters (up to ... xyz{|}~€ in Windows
Character Map) are the most basic, and the last 127 (beginning with
‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ) sometimes cause trouble. The high ASCII set also
includes the accented Western characters mentioned by the OP, such as
àáâãäåæçèéê..., but not Eastern European characters such as ăĺčďů.
The exact characters included in the high/extended ASCII range depend on
the particular character set being used. The one you use may include /
not include those characters, but another might. There's not one single
extended ASCII charset but several, each with an emphasis on particular
languages or regions, including the characters needed for those
languages in its extended range.
At any rate, if high ASCII is causing problems, that suggests that SM is
trying for some reason to make do with a seven-bit encoding instead of
eight bits.
It's not extended characters as such that causes a problem, but emails
being decoded using the wrong character set. The 128 standard ASCII
characters are encoded the same in all extended ASCII-based charsets and
also in UTF-8, so for those of us in Western countries, using the wrong
encoding generally isn't noticeable except for the odd character outside
the standard ASCII ranges.
That was educational (or memory-stirring, since I had read about all
that a long time ago) for me: It seems that the problem might lie in
the extended ASCII characters used for pt-BR text, which (since SM
doesn't have any place to specify that particular language) might mean
it tries to use an inappropriate one (if that's what you meant by
"There's not one single extended ASCII charset but several, each with an
emphasis on particular languages or regions, including the characters
needed for those languages in its extended range.")
It might also answer another query I raised recently in this thread:
"Western" characters -- but what's that: Is that an euphemism for
"English"? Portuguese, Spanish, French, all use "Western
characters", IMHO; but I suspect the former (ie, "Western")
actually means "English"...
I had thought that, in SM/Mail, there were basically 3 text encoding
options: English (called "Western"); Unicode; and 'other languages'.
For many years, I used 'Western' but, as it seemed more and more
messages used Unicode, switched to it (this was at the same time as the
'drafts gibberish' problem started to become more annoying), thinking
that Unicode (is that the same as UTF-8?), at least, should be
"universal"...
Discounting the cases where one opens a message with the wrong encoding
(which is easy to identify since, in such cases, re-opening the message
with the correct encoding makes the problem go away), it seems this
problem (which I described with the Drafts) only appears when a message
mixes extended ASCII characters with lots of standard ASCII ones (would
you say that's a correct way of putting it?).
--
Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon.
s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net>
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Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
Paul B. Gallagher wrote, on 11 Oct 16 04:10: If I were only getting 20 messages a day, I might try your way. As it happens, I routinely get over a hundred, sometimes 200, so filtering to appropriate folders is a great time saver. If messages 3, 28, 47, and 96 relate to the same topic, it's much easier to see all four in the same folder and read them together than to try to keep several dozen threads in my head all at the same time as I work through an unsorted inbox. I also get client requests referring to old jobs, some of them a year or two old, and I have to be able to find the old correspondence quickly and easily. I probably have a hundred thousand old messages going back to the late 90s, and the only way I can cope is with a good filing system. Yeah, "You can't really understand another person's experience until you've walked a mile in their shoes" (and, by then, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes... :-)) I guess that, on average, I must get 50 messages a day, but most of them are very quickly and easily taken care of every day using an e-mails folders structure adequate to my needs and SM's spam/junk filters and Boolean search (which, BTW, is unparalleled, at least for me: I've never seen any e-mail client with search capabilities even close to these!); I imagine that, if I got 100-200/day, maybe I'd start using folder filtering, too... BTW, I just remembered that I do use folder filtering, but on my e-mail service (fastmail.fm): Many years ago, I wrote a filtering script so that e-mails sent to that address would be sent to my SM client, with a copy in their 'junk' files, and those sent to an alternate address, on another service, would be automatically retrieved and go to a specific folder there, keeping the original on that other service -- but it has been so long that that's all I remember, and probably I wouldn't be able to even understand that script if I wanted to change it, these days. Finally, a 'kindred soul': I also keep many messages since the '90s (starting with a few from CompuServe!), and am only able to do that because of the aforementioned e-mails folders structure and SM's Boolean search capabilities. Most people I know delete 99% of their e-mails soon after reading them (or even before that :-)); besides sometimes having a need to get back to earlier info and texts, one of my intents is being able to avoid 'reinventing the wheel': If I already wrote extensively about something I have to write again today, why not re-use the previous text, with adequate changes? -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
Paul B. Gallagher wrote, on 11 Oct 16 00:35: The usual point of filters (not the same as Junk Mail Control) is... I used "filtering' in a general sense: After all, analyzing a message and deciding it's junk/spam and/or from your brother is, basically the same function. I _am_ familiar with the idea of filters...: ... to move incoming messages to appropriate folders. So messages from my bank go in my bank's folder, messages from my accountant go in my accountant's folder, messages from my brother go in my Personal folder, etc. I don't clog up my Inbox by letting everything stay there and moving it manually. And I can see at a glance where the new messages are because any folder name with unread messages is shown in bold. In the same way, I do want SM to move junk messages to the Junk folder, which then lights up in bold to remind me to check them. In most cases, I can take one look at the subject line and agree that it's junk -- if I've just inherited $23 million from some Nigerian prince, or gained the opportunity to improve my size and performance, I don't have to open it. Once more, I think our intents are the same, but we go about them in different ways: The "one look" you described is the same I take to decide if something should be (there is no "is", here, just a "should be", IMHO) classified as junk/spam, bank/personal/etc. and so on -- only I prefer to do that, several times a day, in the Inbox (which, with this procedure, never has more than 20 items in it at any given time), and you let SM place the messages in folders, and then look at them there (we both use the 'bold=unread' feature, too. But for those that I do want to inspect, I open them with one crucial setting: Edit | Preferences | Mail & Newsgroups | Message Display ... [x] Block images and other content from remote sources. This way, the message doesn't "phone home" for a web beacon to notify the spammer that I've opened the message. I do have that set, but I still prefer to examine the 5% or so 'suspicious' messages by looking at the source, since I imagine here might be some new technique whereby a hacker can circumvent this setting -- and learning about it after some dastardly deed has been done is small comfort. Of course, you'll also want to set SM not to run scripts and plugins in mail messages: Edit | Preferences | Advanced | Scripts & Plugins Enable plugins for [ ] Mail & Newsgroups (JavaScript is disabled by default for the "Mail & Newsgroups" component, for security reason.) Yes, that's set too. As I said, I think we have similar strategies, but differ in some tactics... -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
Paul B. Gallagher wrote, on 11 Oct 16 00:21: Windows 2000 was released February 17, 2000, and Windows XP was released October 25, 2001. So XP is approaching its 15th birthday. Computer years are like dog years (7:1), so that means it's like a 105-year-old human being. Even my Win7 at six (42) is starting to look long in the tooth. It still runs, but... When I buy computer hardware, I do so with the expectation that it will be obsolete in five years (like a 35-year-old human athlete). Well, XP may be an old dog by now, but actually it's still quite satisfactory for my needs. I'm only migrating to W7 because, nowadays, many programs don't support (or even work with) XP, so "the writing is on the wall"... I got and installed a valid copy of W10 JIC, while the getting was good (and free), but have no intention of using it in the foreseeable future: I hope W7 will 'live' for many dog years more... -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
Paul B. Gallagher wrote, on 10 Oct 16 17:36:
It seems that SeaMonkey correctly detects the encoding when opening
messages in the "message pane", but doesn't actually use that encoding
until the next message is opened, and doesn't detect the encoding at all
when opening them in a separate window (just using the last-detected
encoding from the message pane).
That also affects opening previously saved drafts. So, for example:
- Start composing a message with UTF-8 encoding (like Paul, that's my
default) and include a character not covered by the standard ASCII set
(in my case, usually "£") ...
Interesting. What you call "standard ASCII" is what we used to call
"high ASCII." The first 128 characters (up to ... xyz{|}~€ in Windows
Character Map) are the most basic, and the last 127 (beginning with
‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ) sometimes cause trouble. The high ASCII set also
includes the accented Western characters mentioned by the OP, such as
àáâãäåæçèéê..., but not Eastern European characters such as ăĺčďů.
At any rate, if high ASCII is causing problems, that suggests that SM is
trying for some reason to make do with a seven-bit encoding instead of
eight bits.
And what are implications of that?
(Sorry, but I'm rather lost in all these details: I've worked with
computers since the '70s, but always tried to avoid the technical
parts... still do, but that's the only way to get some things I want
done, done)
Also, I remember that part in my previous message in this thread:
I (...) have no correspondents who use anything except Unicode
and what I THOUGHT could be "Western" characters -- but what's
that: Is that an euphemism for "English"? Portuguese, Spanish,
French, all use "Western characters", IMHO; but I suspect the
former (ie, "Western") actually means "English"...
Assuming that's true, then in my case there would be 3 types of
text encoding: Western/English, Unicode (and I don't know if 'all
Unicodes are created equal'), and "other Western codes", like
Portuguese, Spanish, French, etc.
not to mention things like "MIME Encoding", which I don't see any option
for anywhere in SM except that "Preferences | Mail & Newsgroups | Text
Encoding" option: "For messages that contain 8-bit characters, use
'quoted printable' MIME Encoding" (yes, I know it's in Windows itself;
but I thought SM was referring to something one could change inside it).
To be honest, I've got to the point where I barely notice this and just
automatically tap F8 a couple of times when a message isn't displayed
correctly. That it's become an automatic reaction isn't a particularly
good sign, but that may be a workaround until the problem is fixed
properly.
That F8's a good tip, thanks.
As I said in another message, I'll try that out after I clean up my
draft, and see if it only works with the message pane, or also for new
windows...
--
Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon.
s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net>
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Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
Paul B. Gallagher wrote, on 10 Oct 16 17:46: Alexander Yudenitsch wrote: But, is it possible that the matter with "Edit | Preferences | Appearance | Fonts" which Paul Gallagher described is also a factor in this problem? Could be -- a lot of older fonts have very limited character sets. Yes, could be... But, as I said, I've been using these same fonts (they're the standard SM ones!) for many years, and didn't have this problem until recently. BTW, before I forget: It's been a few years since Careful -- this English phrasing normally implies that the stated phenomenon has NOT occurred during the stated period. For the positive version, we'd say "For a few years, SM has been...," or else "Several years ago, SM started..." It doesn't work the same as "depuis quelques années." Yes, you're right; I was in a hurry (to go to my POBox and get the bottles of wine waiting there for me since Friday)... SM started opening that 'message pane' when you classify a message as "Junk"; it wasn't that way earlier, and I don't see any way to turn that behavior off! Does anyone know some way to do that? Haven't seen this. If I select a message in the list and press "J" to classify it as junk, SM just puts it in the Junk folder without displaying it. Of course, if I open it to diagnose it and /then/ mark it as junk, well, it's already open, isn't it? ;-) Can you precisely describe the circumstances and steps you take so someone else can reproduce the problem? Well, first of all, I don't allow SM to move messages around on its own: I like and value very much its mail filter (as I'm fond of telling friends, it even manages to distinguish 'ad-only editions' of a newsletter from 'normal' ones!), so I let it mark all messages IT 'thinks' are junk, and then I go through my Inbox checking -- and, usually, some of its Junk/Spam aren't ones I so consider, several ARE junk but I still want to keep them, and several others are ones I consider junk/spam, so I mark them as such with a right-click, and THAT's when SM opens the message pane! Also, as I commented in another message, I never use the 'message pane' to read e-mails, always opening them in new windows -- but I'm talking about cases (the majority, actually) where I decide the message should classified as junk/spam based only on the subject, sender and recipient, so it's NOT opened (in case you're wondering, when I'm suspicious about some message, I just look at its source, thus avoiding triggering any unknown 'nasties'). -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
Paul B. Gallagher wrote, on 10 out 16 17:49: Alexander Yudenitsch wrote: A happy coincidence that you decided to do so, since I already had the intention of writing you, to ask for details about your migration of SM from XP to W7 -- but let's leave that for a little later, OK? I can't promise to remember the details of what I did so long ago... IIRC, I upgraded the OS from XP to Win2000 while SM was already installed, and it just ran without further action on my part. And then I did the same thing again when going from Win2000 to Win7. But don't quote me -- it's been over a decade, and I can't swear that I'm reembering correctly. I distinctly remember someone on this forum commenting on how he (yes, it was a 'he', AFAIK) had migrated a profile from XP to W7, and I thought that was you; well, apparently not... I did try to find that message among the hundreds of the 'current' batch but, not remembering what was the 'nominal' subject, I guess its hopeless. Don't you mean that you "upgraded the OS from W2K to WXP while SM was already installed, and it just ran without further action on [your] part"? After all, XP came after 2k (which came after W95, all of which I used in turn)... And, yes, going from W2K to WXP was nearly effortless (as I remember, the main difference was that instead of a WINNT directory, we had a WINDOWS one), but I think you misremember: The directory structure in W7 is quite different from the WXP one (although they did add 'link-like directories' so you can use old-style addresses. I made a 'trial install' of SM in W7, just to see where it'd put its files, and they seem to be 'all over the place' -- but I'm still learning the ropes concerning this, which is why I'd like to know exactly what others did, migrating SM from XP to W7. BTW, I think my SM profile has accumulated several glitches over the years (it's basically the same one since Netscape..): Lately, I've been having problems (apparently involving javascript) on some sites, which work fine on a copy of FireFox I installed for exactly such cases -- so, I was thinking about creating a fresh new profile in W7, and then migrating what I need, and reinstalling the extensions which work better that way, but I'm afraid I'll never catch all the 'ramifications' (eg, there are extensions which place their data in "about:config", which I only recently discovered), so I"m undecided... -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote, on 10 Oct 16 15:48: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: I have noticed that sometimes SM will guess wrong when I select a message in a mail folder, but if I navigate away and then return it'll guess right. I don't know why that is -- it seems to be sticking to the encoding it used for the previous message that I just deleted. I've noticed that too, and it may be the root of Alexandre's problem. It seems that SeaMonkey correctly detects the encoding when opening messages in the "message pane", but doesn't actually use that encoding until the next message is opened, and doesn't detect the encoding at all when opening them in a separate window (just using the last-detected encoding from the message pane). That also affects opening previously saved drafts. So, for example: - Start composing a message with UTF-8 encoding (like Paul, that's my default) and include a character not covered by the standard ASCII set (in my case, usually "£") - Save as draft and close that message. - View, in the message pane (View > Layout > Message Pane or press F8), another email which uses a different encoding (e.g. us-ascii) - Re-open the draft - The "£" now appears as "£" (it just happens that in this case the second character is the same as the original single character, but that's not necessarily the case for all characters) No amount of closing and re-opening the draft seems to fix that. However: - Select the draft in the thread pane - Open the message pane (View > Layout > Message Pane or press F8) - It looks wrong there too, and saving the draft again at this point will compound the problem. However... - Close the message pane - Open the message pane - It now looks correct, and double-clicking to open the message for further editing is now also correct. To be honest, I've got to the point where I barely notice this and just automatically tap F8 a couple of times when a message isn't displayed correctly. That it's become an automatic reaction isn't a particularly good sign, but that may be a workaround until the problem is fixed properly. I think this has come up on this list before, but not sure it's reported on Bugzilla. Sounds like potentially good news, and thanks! Since I never use the 'message pane', but always open e-mails (including drafts) in their own windows, I think the problem may be a little more 'widespread' than that -- but the main point would be that SM seems to open or show messages using the 'last-used' text encoding, not the one specified in the e-mail's properties (which, IMHO, should be considered a bug). That would explain why: For a relatively long time, I was able to stop this behavior by always choosing the "View | Text Encoding" before opening these drafts (and, many times, when I forgot to do that, gibberish appeared) but, lately, even when doing that, the gibberish still appears, and gets worse with each 'save': Perhaps there have been some 'tweaks' to SM's "encoding guessing" algorithms? I'll 'clean up' the offending draft, and try once again to choose the correct "View | Text Encoding" before opening it, and see if that stops the gibberish. Alternatively, on another draft, I'll try the "F8 way" which mbourne described (since I also never used F8, that'll be a new one for me, too). But, is it possible that the matter with "Edit | Preferences | Appearance | Fonts" which Paul Gallagher described is also a factor in this problem? BTW, before I forget: It's been a few years since SM started opening that 'message pane' when you classify a message as "Junk"; it wasn't that way earlier, and I don't see any way to turn that behavior off! Does anyone know some way to do that? -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
Ralph Fox wrotescreveu, onem 10 out 16 05:23: On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 01:15:17 -0300, Alexander Yudenitsch wrote: Sorry, but that doesn't cover my main problem which, as I said, is that: when I compose a large message with parts in English and parts in another language, and make several drafts: Each time the draft is re-opened for further editing, parts of it have been changed by SM, usually changing some non-English characters into gibberish (Not Unicode!); what's particularly puzzling is that the same character may be changed in some parts of the message and not in others, and where/when this happens seems almost random. I assume there must be some 'automatic processing' going on (like the "auto-detect" above), but see no way to turn it off; I have tried changing all the above options to "unicode", or to "English", but nothing seems to help... This seems to ba relatively recent problem: In the past, I rarely noticed this; but, since these messages have gotten longer, and are very frequently re-drafted, parts of them (and only PARTS, which I find even more mysterious) turn into gibberish (and not boxes, or stuff like , or even "крякозябры" -- a mouthful!). An example: "ç" might become "Г§", or even (with repeated drafts) "ГѓВђ “В§" (I'm not kidding!!) I mean: If I can write "ç" when composing (like I did right now), and just save the draft and re-open it, the reason for the gibberish shouldn't be the font, right? I normally write and send messages with these characters without any problem (as far as I know: Usually, no-one complains), it seems to happen only with very long messages which mix English and another language, which is why I suspect that SM 'guesses' each time a draft is saved -- and, oveerr dozens of 'saves', it gets it wrong part of the time. For a relatively long time, I was able to stop this behaviour by always choosing the "View | Text Encoding" before opening these drafts (and, many times, when I forgot to do that, gibberish appeared) but, lately, even when doing that, the gibberish still appears, and gets worse with each 'save': Perhaps there have been some 'tweaks' to SM's "encoding guessing" algorithms? Go to about:config [^1][^2] and make sure that the preference mailnews.force_charset_override is set to false. What you describe will happen with your own drafts when mailnews.force_charset_override is set to true. SeaMonkey does not need to guess the encoding of its own drafts. SeaMonkey writes the encoding in the "Content-Type" header of the draft. When you re-open the draft, SeaMonkey will recognize the encoding from the "Content-Type" header UNLESS the preference mailnews.force_charset_override is set to true. The only way in which I can make SeaMonkey not recognize the encoding of its own drafts is to set mailnews.force_charset_override to true. REFERENCES [^1] http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/customizing/ [^2] http://kb.mozillazine.org/about:config Thanks for the post! My heart skipped a beat when I read it, since it indicated a simple, specific reason for the problem, and an easy solution... Unfortunately, it was a false hope, since that preference IS set to 'false' on my system (and I don't know why it would deviate from the default, since I never changed it). So, it seems that there must be some OTHER "way [to] make SeaMonkey not recognize the encoding of its own drafts"... Let's hope someone can read this and offer another suggestion -- and thanks for your help. -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Mail and text encoding
I only send 'text-only' messages (even in reply to HTML), and use the 'standard' "Courier New" font for that, AND when I write messages all the chgaracters are displayed in the fonts I use, I don't see how that might be the cause -- but, once more, maye that's just my ignorance talking... A common reason that SeaMonkey could choose the wrong encoding (other than a sender whose computer lies about the encoding it used) is if the user gives it improper guidance. For example, if you tell it "no matter what you see, display it in Western encoding," messages with foreign characters will be corrupted. One place you should look is under Edit | Preferences | Appearance | Fonts -- have you checked the box, "Allow documents to use other fonts"? That's fine if you have lots of fonts installed, but if an incoming message specifies a font you don't have, your system will have to substitute something it does have, and that doesn't always work. I have it checked, and it hasn't caused problems. Things may be different for your correspondents. As i said, guessing the correct coding to display an incoming e-mail isn't a big problem, for me: If I guess wrong, I just have to re-guess and start over (or anm I missing something here, also? Since I'm using text-only for display and composing, and only have 3 types of text encoding, (Western/English, Unicode, and "other Western codes" like Portuguese), I thought that the first 2 options (Western and Unicode) would cover 100 of my received e-mails. For mixed-content messages, I recommend specifying Unicode when you begin drafting (in the composition window, Options | Text Encoding | Unicode). My implementation of SM does that on its own for all outgoing messages (both plain text and HTML), which is very convenient. After all, the definition of Unicode is that it supports all languages. You're right that the encoding of an incoming message must be selected correctly before you reply. Sorry, but that doesn't cover my main problem which, as I said, is that: when I compose a large message with parts in English and parts in another language, and make several drafts: Each time the draft is re-opened for further editing, parts of it have been changed by SM, usually changing some non-English characters into gibberish (Not Unicode!); what's particularly puzzling is that the same character may be changed in some parts of the message and not in others, and where/when this happens seems almost random. I assume there must be some 'automatic processing' going on (like the "auto-detect" above), but see no way to turn it off; I have tried changing all the above options to "unicode", or to "English", but nothing seems to help... This seems to ba relatively recent problem: In the past, I rarely noticed this; but, since these messages have gotten longer, and are very frequently re-drafted, parts of them (and only PARTS, which I find even more mysterious) turn into gibberish (and not boxes, or stuff like , or even "крякозябры" -- a mouthful!). An example: "ç" might become "Г§", or even (with repeated drafts) "ГѓВђ “В§" (I'm not kidding!!) I mean: If I can write "ç" when composing (like I did right now), and just save the draft and re-open it, the reason for the gibberish shouldn't be the font, right? I normally write and send messages with these characters without any problem (as far as I know: Usually, no-one complains), it seems to happen only with very long messages which mix English and another language, which is why I suspect that SM 'guesses' each time a draft is saved -- and, oveerr dozens of 'saves', it gets it wrong part of the time. For a relatively long time, I was able to stop this behaviour by always choosing the "View | Text Encoding" before opening these drafts (and, many times, when I forgot to do that, gibberish appeared) but, lately, even when doing that, the gibberish still appears, and gets worse with each 'save': Perhaps there have been some 'tweaks' to SM's "encoding guessing" algorithms? -- Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon. s) Alexander Yudenitsch <ale...@postpro.net> ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
