Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Daniel]

Felix Miata wrote on 2/05/2019 5:35 PM:

Daniel composed on 2019-05-02 17:13 (UTC+1000):


What's sm.next, Felix??


If I knew for certain it's what I would have written. I expect it will be 
2.49.5. :-D


Ah!! O.K., tks!

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User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Felix Miata]

Daniel composed on 2019-05-02 17:13 (UTC+1000):

> What's sm.next, Felix??

If I knew for certain it's what I would have written. I expect it will be 
2.49.5. :-D
-- 
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[Daniel]

NFN Smith wrote on 2/05/2019 1:26 AM:

Daniel wrote:

NFN Smith wrote on 30/04/2019 1:49 AM:

Felix Miata wrote:




I do find it amusing that there is a site that will accept Seamonkey,
but only if it's not advertising itself as Firefox compatible.


Thinking along these lines, could it be that the site/s detects the FF52
in the Useragent string and realises that that is an ollddd
version of FF so the site thinks it cannot present its site optimised
for an 'up-to-date' browser, so complains??


I think that's what's happening.  As soon as the script sees Firefox 52, 
it throws up the warning for an unsupported browser and download links 
to current versions of Chrome and Firefox (and others).


Smith


So if the OP were to add a UserAgent override line specifically for that 
site to think the OP is using, say, FF66, his problem might be solved!

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User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Daniel]

Felix Miata wrote on 2/05/2019 4:18 AM:

Felix Miata composed on 2019-04-24 17:41 (UTC-0400):


Brian Mailman composed on 2019-04-24 12:50 (UTC-0700):



Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .



Idiotic web page design. :-(


More insanity: I filled a cart at https://www.jackssmallengines.com/ in ESR52, 
but
got no reaction from any mouse click anywhere in the cart, and no kind of 
warning
about unsupported browser. I redid my order in 2.49.4 and was able to complete 
my
purchase.


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting
is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!



Help?  Thanks in advance.



about:config
general.useragent.override.fedex.com
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0
works at fedex.com, ought to work in similar manner at davita.com.


For good measure for next time in sm.next I added:
general.useragent.override.jackssmallengines.com
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0


Exactly what I just suggest to NFN Smith!! Well done to us both!!

What's sm.next, Felix??

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User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Felix Miata]

Felix Miata composed on 2019-04-24 17:41 (UTC-0400):

> Brian Mailman composed on 2019-04-24 12:50 (UTC-0700):

>> Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
>> Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com . 

> Idiotic web page design. :-( 

More insanity: I filled a cart at https://www.jackssmallengines.com/ in ESR52, 
but
got no reaction from any mouse click anywhere in the cart, and no kind of 
warning
about unsupported browser. I redid my order in 2.49.4 and was able to complete 
my
purchase.

>> The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting 
>> is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!

>> Help?  Thanks in advance.

> about:config
> general.useragent.override.fedex.com
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0
> works at fedex.com, ought to work in similar manner at davita.com. 

For good measure for next time in sm.next I added:
general.useragent.override.jackssmallengines.com
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0
-- 
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[NFN Smith]

Daniel wrote:

NFN Smith wrote on 30/04/2019 1:49 AM:

Felix Miata wrote:




I do find it amusing that there is a site that will accept Seamonkey,
but only if it's not advertising itself as Firefox compatible.


Thinking along these lines, could it be that the site/s detects the FF52
in the Useragent string and realises that that is an ollddd
version of FF so the site thinks it cannot present its site optimised
for an 'up-to-date' browser, so complains??


I think that's what's happening.  As soon as the script sees Firefox 52, 
it throws up the warning for an unsupported browser and download links 
to current versions of Chrome and Firefox (and others).


Smith
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[Brian Mailman]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:


Thanks.  What is this "v2.49.4"?  I'm using 2.48 for Windows... when I 
click on "Check on Update" from the Help menu, it tells me I have the 
latest update...


As noted elsewhere in this thread, automatic update checks are broken. 
Go to the SeaMonkey home page and you'll see that 2.49.4 is the latest 
release.





Thanks!  Done and done.  Looks just like Seamonkey .

B/


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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[Daniel]

NFN Smith wrote on 30/04/2019 1:49 AM:

Felix Miata wrote:

Hmm! NOT advertising 'Firefox' fixed a problem!! That's
different!! ;-)



I've been not advertising Firefox for more years than I can
remember, with the exception of 5 general.useragent.override.*
settings, where Firefox and Windows (instead of Linux) are
advertised, and SeaMonkey is not.


An interesting shift, by historical standards.

For some years, the Seamonkey UA string showed only "Seamonkey",
without reference to Firefox.  The rationale was that people wanted
Seamonkey to show in activity logs, to show developers and admins
that people are using Seamonkey, rather than Firefox.  I believe the
height of this was when GeckoIsGecko was being promoted.  Adding the
Firefox compatibility setting really did make a difference in
lessening the frequency of having to resort to spoofing to get around
sniffing and demands for Firefox only.

I do find it amusing that there is a site that will accept Seamonkey,
but only if it's not advertising itself as Firefox compatible.


Thinking along these lines, could it be that the site/s detects the FF52
in the Useragent string and realises that that is an ollddd
version of FF so the site thinks it cannot present its site optimised
for an 'up-to-date' browser, so complains??

However if it doesn't detect the currect'ish FF/MSIE/Whatever Useragent 
string, it just presents some sort of generic webpage??


--
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User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Felix Miata]

JAS composed on 2019-04-29 18:48 (UTC-0600):

> FedEx site complains about my SM 2.49.4 when I use Delivery Manager 
> --Suggest Firefox 38 +


That used to annoy me, but "this" WFM for several years now (recently updated to
be 66.0 instead of 60.0):
about:config:
general.useragent.override.fedex.com
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0
-- 
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[JAS]

NFN Smith wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:



They should develop for the W3C web standards, which Google, 
Microsoft, Apple, Mozilla and others are members of the consortium. No?







No objection from me.



So the site decided to no longer support Firefox 52 ESR which they 
have the right to do considering it is outdated.


True, although there are supported browsers based on the older work.  I 
don't know if Seamonkey is the only FF 52 browser out there, but that's 
something that's not uncommon for works that are forks of open source 
projects. However, I do know that in email, PostBox is based on a fairly 
old version of Thunderbird.  If I remember correctly, the PostBox 
developers forked a then-current copy of Thunderbird when their work 
started, and as far as I'm aware, they've never updated to a more 
current release. They've simply added their own stuff to that particular 
copy.




Can you access it using Firefox 52 ESR, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 or 59, 
older versions of IE, Chrome and Safari?


Removing the check mark for "Advertise Firefox Compatibility" fixes 
the problem for me in SM 2.49.4.


YMMV


When I checked, I looked at just current versions of Firefox, Chrome and 
Opera, although I might have checked FF 52 ESR.  I did not try to turn 
off Firefox compatibility, and I guess that that particular site 
operator is objecting to seeing "Seamonkey" and something else, even if 
they seem not to object to just "Seamonkey".


That said, I occasionally wonder if derivative projects based on other 
browsers (Iron, Epic, Comodo Dragon, etc.) have the same kinds of 
compatibility issues that Seamonkey users have had.  Or for that matter, 
some of the multi-engine browsers, such as Lunascape.


Smith
FedEx site complains about my SM 2.49.4 when I use Delivery Manager 
--Suggest Firefox 38 +

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[GerardJan]

NFN Smith wrote:

EE wrote:



Is there some big deal about forged user-agents?  Why should the owner of a 
website care whether a user-agent is faked or not?  Besides, if the fake has 
all the navigator elements filled in properly, the fake is hard to detect.


There shouldn't be, but there is.

In the days of IE dominance, a lot of the issue was that sites demanding IE only 
had ActiveX scripting, which could not be run in other browsers.  Although there 
were extensions for Mozilla browsers, that still excluded non-Windows users.


Why can people not just validate their code with validator.w3.org?  Then they 
would not have to worry about their pages not working with some browsers.


They should, yes, but not all developers really care about standards, and some 
proportion would prefer to simply develop for one browser (usually the one that 
they use personally), and not bother testing their code against other browsers.  
With the growth of Google Chrome, that's now becoming more or less the standard 
that they're writing for.


With Mozilla-derived browsers, a user-agent override for a particular site 
seems to work fine.


With the demise of IE (and ActiveX scripting) and Chrome becoming the new de 
facto standard, I think that Google does enough with w3.org standards, I find it 
unusual that I have to resort to spoofing, especially with Seamonkey's ability 
to advertise Firefox compatibility.


However, the issues aren't so much a matter of compatibility of scripting 
capacity, but more often of user presentation.  Over the years, I've seen some 
number of sites (particularly financial services) that may be militant about 
demanding specific browsers, and exclusion of everything else. With Mozilla 
browsers, this is Firefox specifically, and I think that was the issue that 
finally caused the Seamonkey devs to add the option of Firefox compatibility.  
In my experience, I can't think of a case where I've seen a site that demands 
Firefox (even to the exclusion of Seamonkey with Firefox compatibility), but the 
site we're discussing here seems to be one of the very few exceptions.


With financial sites, I think the issue tends to be one of user support.  Thus, 
if a user is having problems with a particular site, and talks to the support 
people, the support people want a very short list of browsers that they have 
experience with, and where the support people can say, "Do this, this, that and 
this, and don't do that", and be done with it.  They don't want to hear "I'm 
running a different browser that just happens to have all the capabilities that 
you need".  From the perspective of the support people, they don't know how 
Seamonkey is different than Firefox, and so the standard response is "if it's 
not Firefox, we don't support it".  Some sites are willing to go the route of 
"use something else at your own risk", and some are more aggressive about 
disallowing use of anything other than their preferences.


If they're actively disallowing, then I think the primary thing that they're 
addressing is the case of a non-technical user that tends to consume a lot of 
help resources that is using a browser that they didn't install themselves, but 
where somebody else installed it for them.


I agree that such inflexibility is stupid, but at that point, you've entered the 
Dilbert sphere, where there's managerial decision-making made for technical 
issues by people that don't understand the technology.


Smith


+1

--
Gerard-Jan Vinkesteijn-Rudersdorff

https://facebook.com/gerardjan.vinkesteijn
Karl's version of Parkinson's Law:  Work expands to exceed the time alloted it.

Fedora20
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 
SeaMonkey/2.49.4

Build identifier: 20180711183816
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[NFN Smith]

Felix Miata wrote:

Hmm! NOT advertising 'Firefox' fixed a problem!! That's different!! ;-)



I've been not advertising Firefox for more years than I can remember, with the
exception of 5 general.useragent.override.* settings, where Firefox and Windows
(instead of Linux) are advertised, and SeaMonkey is not.


An interesting shift, by historical standards.

For some years, the Seamonkey UA string showed only "Seamonkey", without 
reference to Firefox.  The rationale was that people wanted Seamonkey to 
show in activity logs, to show developers and admins that people are 
using Seamonkey, rather than Firefox.  I believe the height of this was 
when GeckoIsGecko was being promoted.  Adding the Firefox compatibility 
setting really did make a difference in lessening the frequency of 
having to resort to spoofing to get around sniffing and demands for 
Firefox only.


I do find it amusing that there is a site that will accept Seamonkey, 
but only if it's not advertising itself as Firefox compatible.


Beyond working around sites that demand specific browsers, I do find 
spoofing to be useful for sites that are aggressive in sniffing for 
platforms.


In my own work, I have a fairly substantial collection of downloaded 
software that I use for support purposes, and I have some number of Mac 
titles.  There's quite a few sites out there that offer both Windows and 
Mac versions of their work, and if you go to their download links, they 
try to detect your platform, and offer the download that's appropriate 
for the platform (and typically install immediately). For most users, 
that's appropriate, because it ensures that the user doesn't download 
the wrong package, whether the difference between Windows, Mac or Linux, 
or simply differentiating between 32 and 64 bit Windows builds


For where I am, I'm simply downloading to update my own repositories, 
and forcing a specific download based on my browser gets in the way. 
Thus, with on-the-fly spoofing which I do with PrefBar, if I'm working 
from Windows, I can set my UA to show that I'm running a Mac version of 
Firefox, if I need to get a Mac version of the download.


I also make occasional use of spoofing, when I'm tuning my own web site, 
when I'm adjusting the filters I use for rejecting bots with spoofed UA 
strings.  For those filters, I make enough use of regular expressions 
that it's useful to test specific UAs, to make sure the filters are 
behaving the way I want them to.


Smith
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[NFN Smith]

EE wrote:



Is there some big deal about forged user-agents?  Why should the owner 
of a website care whether a user-agent is faked or not?  Besides, if the 
fake has all the navigator elements filled in properly, the fake is hard 
to detect.


There shouldn't be, but there is.

In the days of IE dominance, a lot of the issue was that sites demanding 
IE only had ActiveX scripting, which could not be run in other browsers. 
 Although there were extensions for Mozilla browsers, that still 
excluded non-Windows users.


Why can people not just validate their code with validator.w3.org?  Then 
they would not have to worry about their pages not working with some 
browsers.


They should, yes, but not all developers really care about standards, 
and some proportion would prefer to simply develop for one browser 
(usually the one that they use personally), and not bother testing their 
code against other browsers.  With the growth of Google Chrome, that's 
now becoming more or less the standard that they're writing for.


With Mozilla-derived browsers, a user-agent override for a particular 
site seems to work fine.


With the demise of IE (and ActiveX scripting) and Chrome becoming the 
new de facto standard, I think that Google does enough with w3.org 
standards, I find it unusual that I have to resort to spoofing, 
especially with Seamonkey's ability to advertise Firefox compatibility.


However, the issues aren't so much a matter of compatibility of 
scripting capacity, but more often of user presentation.  Over the 
years, I've seen some number of sites (particularly financial services) 
that may be militant about demanding specific browsers, and exclusion of 
everything else. With Mozilla browsers, this is Firefox specifically, 
and I think that was the issue that finally caused the Seamonkey devs to 
add the option of Firefox compatibility.  In my experience, I can't 
think of a case where I've seen a site that demands Firefox (even to the 
exclusion of Seamonkey with Firefox compatibility), but the site we're 
discussing here seems to be one of the very few exceptions.


With financial sites, I think the issue tends to be one of user support. 
 Thus, if a user is having problems with a particular site, and talks 
to the support people, the support people want a very short list of 
browsers that they have experience with, and where the support people 
can say, "Do this, this, that and this, and don't do that", and be done 
with it.  They don't want to hear "I'm running a different browser that 
just happens to have all the capabilities that you need".  From the 
perspective of the support people, they don't know how Seamonkey is 
different than Firefox, and so the standard response is "if it's not 
Firefox, we don't support it".  Some sites are willing to go the route 
of "use something else at your own risk", and some are more aggressive 
about disallowing use of anything other than their preferences.


If they're actively disallowing, then I think the primary thing that 
they're addressing is the case of a non-technical user that tends to 
consume a lot of help resources that is using a browser that they didn't 
install themselves, but where somebody else installed it for them.


I agree that such inflexibility is stupid, but at that point, you've 
entered the Dilbert sphere, where there's managerial decision-making 
made for technical issues by people that don't understand the technology.


Smith

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[NFN Smith]

WaltS48 wrote:



They should develop for the W3C web standards, which Google, Microsoft, 
Apple, Mozilla and others are members of the consortium. No?







No objection from me.



So the site decided to no longer support Firefox 52 ESR which they have 
the right to do considering it is outdated.


True, although there are supported browsers based on the older work.  I 
don't know if Seamonkey is the only FF 52 browser out there, but that's 
something that's not uncommon for works that are forks of open source 
projects. However, I do know that in email, PostBox is based on a fairly 
old version of Thunderbird.  If I remember correctly, the PostBox 
developers forked a then-current copy of Thunderbird when their work 
started, and as far as I'm aware, they've never updated to a more 
current release. They've simply added their own stuff to that particular 
copy.




Can you access it using Firefox 52 ESR, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 or 59, 
older versions of IE, Chrome and Safari?


Removing the check mark for "Advertise Firefox Compatibility" fixes the 
problem for me in SM 2.49.4.


YMMV


When I checked, I looked at just current versions of Firefox, Chrome and 
Opera, although I might have checked FF 52 ESR.  I did not try to turn 
off Firefox compatibility, and I guess that that particular site 
operator is objecting to seeing "Seamonkey" and something else, even if 
they seem not to object to just "Seamonkey".


That said, I occasionally wonder if derivative projects based on other 
browsers (Iron, Epic, Comodo Dragon, etc.) have the same kinds of 
compatibility issues that Seamonkey users have had.  Or for that matter, 
some of the multi-engine browsers, such as Lunascape.


Smith
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[Felix Miata]

Daniel composed on 2019-04-29 14:27 (UTC+1000):

> Brian Mailman wrote:

>> Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

>>> Brian Mailman wrote:

 Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my
 Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .

 The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the
 setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify
 itself as Firefox!

 Help?  Thanks in advance.

>>> Simply disable "Advertise Firefox compatibility" and reload:

>>> Edit | Preferences | Advanced | HTTP Networking

>> That did it.

>> Thanks to everyone who had the same/similar suggestion, it's greatly 
>> appreciated!!  You folks are the best!

> Hmm! NOT advertising 'Firefox' fixed a problem!! That's different!! ;-) 

I've been not advertising Firefox for more years than I can remember, with the
exception of 5 general.useragent.override.* settings, where Firefox and Windows
(instead of Linux) are advertised, and SeaMonkey is not.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[Daniel]

Brian Mailman wrote on 29/04/2019 7:18 AM:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:


Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .

The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the
setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify
itself as Firefox!

Help?  Thanks in advance.


Simply disable "Advertise Firefox compatibility" and reload:

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | HTTP Networking


That did it.

Thanks to everyone who had the same/similar suggestion, it's greatly 
appreciated!!  You folks are the best!


B/


Hmm! NOT advertising 'Firefox' fixed a problem!! That's different!! ;-)
--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Brian Mailman wrote:

Ant wrote:

You might have to change your web browser's user agent. Its home page
worked for me with "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0" on my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1
PC's SeaMonkey v2.49.4 web browser. Maybe try changing its user agent?



Thanks.  What is this "v2.49.4"?  I'm using 2.48 for Windows... when I 
click on "Check on Update" from the Help menu, it tells me I have the 
latest update...


As noted elsewhere in this thread, automatic update checks are broken. 
Go to the SeaMonkey home page and you'll see that 2.49.4 is the latest 
release.




--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Lee]

On 4/28/19, Brian Mailman wrote:
> Uh, no.  I'm using 2.48.  When I use "Check for Updates" I'm told that
> this is the latest version.  Although downthread I see references to
> 2.49.4. I'll assume for now, until I'm corrected that this is a
> Linux/Unix version.

SeaMonkey "Check for Updates" functionality is broken :(
The last official release is 2.49.4 - get it here
  https://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/
and the not-quite-official-but-has-some-fixes release is here
  https://www.wg9s.com/comm-esr/

I haven't been keeping up, so I don't know how good the wg9s.com 2.53
or 2.57 releases are.

Regards,
Lee
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[Brian Mailman]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:


Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .

The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the
setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify
itself as Firefox!

Help?  Thanks in advance.


Simply disable "Advertise Firefox compatibility" and reload:

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | HTTP Networking


That did it.

Thanks to everyone who had the same/similar suggestion, it's greatly 
appreciated!!  You folks are the best!


B/
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice - SOLVED

[Brian Mailman]

Ant wrote:

You might have to change your web browser's user agent. Its home page
worked for me with "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0" on my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1
PC's SeaMonkey v2.49.4 web browser. Maybe try changing its user agent?



Thanks.  What is this "v2.49.4"?  I'm using 2.48 for Windows... when I 
click on "Check on Update" from the Help menu, it tells me I have the 
latest update...


B/

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Brian Mailman]

Dirk Fieldhouse wrote:

On 24/04/19 20:50, Brian Mailman wrote:

Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .

The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting
is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!


Normally I'd say bin the site until the backer learns how to make one
that works, but this looks like something people might need.


Why, yes--it is.


Does the site work apart from the notice?

If so, some config on your side would avoid the notice. For instance
user CSS like this

  .dv-unsupported-browsers {
display: none;
  }
would hide the notice, or user JS like this

  for (let t of document.querySelectorAll('.dv-unsupported-browsers')) {
  t.remove();
  }
would delete it.

An extension such as Stylish helps to apply user CSS. A NoScript
surrogate helps to apply user JS to specific sites.

Or change the version of Firefox that you're spoofing to a later one?


Uh, no.  I'm using 2.48.  When I use "Check for Updates" I'm told that 
this is the latest version.  Although downthread I see references to 
2.49.4. I'll assume for now, until I'm corrected that this is a 
Linux/Unix version.


Thanks for your help.

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[EE]

NFN Smith wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the 
setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify 
itself as Firefox!



This one is a growing issue, and has been since the release of Firefox, 
circa 57.0. A growing number of site operators are rejecting older 
versions as "dated" (and with known security issues), and I know that 
there were sites rejecting Firefox 52.x ESR implementations (even if 
still supported) before 60.x ESR was released.


I haven't seen it a lot, although I know of one financial institution 
that I deal with that complains about outdated browser, although it 
doesn't deny access.


There's a significant number of Web developers and admins that really 
don't know browsers well, what's supported or not.  A further problem is 
that most web sites get significant amounts of bot-generated traffic 
that use forged User Agent strings.  I've done some work on that with my 
own web site, and even though I go conservatively, I still reject a lot 
of traffic that shows old versions of browsers, or User Agent strings 
that have syntax errors that are obviously forged.


One of the dynamics is that with Google Chrome, they're aggressive 
enough about forcing updates on users that for a site operator, it's 
generally safe to assume that anything that's more than about 2 versions 
older than the most current version, it's safe to assume that it's 
forged, and is safe to reject.  This effect is amplified by both 
developers and admins that mostly live in Chrome (and don't know much 
about Mozilla's architecture, including Seamonkey as a derivative).


Although historically, Seamonkey users have sometimes had to struggle 
with sites that demand Firefox (especially before Seamonkey started 
advertising Firefox compatibility), it is becoming more common that 
sites reject Seamonkey, not necessarily because of Seamonkey, but that 
it's advertising compatibility with Firefox 52.


I do some with spoofing using PrefBar, and I have some number of spoofs 
of other browsers that I may make use of occasionally.  So far, I 
haven't really had to try to spoof Seamonkey 53 or 57 (and Firefox 60 
capacity), but I anticipate doing so before too long.


I did check davita.com, and none of the spoofing I use (whether a stock 
Firefox 60, or for that matter, stock Chrome or Opera strings) are 
getting me past that complaint.  At that stage, it's a pretty good guess 
that the site developer/admin is doing browser sniffing badly. However, 
it's also a guess that they see few enough Seamonkey users (other than 
you) that they're not going to bother to make any changes.


You may need to simply bite the bullet and use another browser for that 
site.


Smith


Is there some big deal about forged user-agents?  Why should the owner 
of a website care whether a user-agent is faked or not?  Besides, if the 
fake has all the navigator elements filled in properly, the fake is hard 
to detect.
Why can people not just validate their code with validator.w3.org?  Then 
they would not have to worry about their pages not working with some 
browsers.
With Mozilla-derived browsers, a user-agent override for a particular 
site seems to work fine.

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[WaltS48]

On 4/26/19 2:36 PM, NFN Smith wrote:

Daniel wrote:
Nice find. This issue should be reported to the web site owners to 
sniff SM's UA correctly.


Ant, years ago, it was suggested that a better solution would be if, 
rather then sniffing for "Firefox", 'They' sniffed for "Gecko" which 
is/was used in the User Agent of Firefox, SeaMonkey, and a few other 
browsers as well.


Didn't happen. Isn't going to happen! Unfortunately!!


http://geckoisgecko.org/ is still out there, but badly outdated.

Unfortunately, most web site owners don't care if they're doing sniffing 
badly -- most of what's out there fits into *their* perceptions of how 
things are being done, and it's easy to dismiss outliers that don't fit 
those perceptions (or what they see in their logs).


For better or worse, Google Chrome is the de facto standard (especially 
with most of the alternatives, including Safari, Opera, and soon to 
come, Edge) all running on the Blink rendering engine.  Even for Firefox 
proper, the usage share is low enough that many developers can get away 
with living in Chrome, developing for Chrome, and not really caring 
about anything else.


Smith


They should develop for the W3C web standards, which Google, Microsoft, 
Apple, Mozilla and others are members of the consortium. No?






So the site decided to no longer support Firefox 52 ESR which they have 
the right to do considering it is outdated.


Can you access it using Firefox 52 ESR, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 or 59, 
older versions of IE, Chrome and Safari?


Removing the check mark for "Advertise Firefox Compatibility" fixes the 
problem for me in SM 2.49.4.


YMMV
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[NFN Smith]

Daniel wrote:
Nice find. This issue should be reported to the web site owners to 
sniff SM's UA correctly.


Ant, years ago, it was suggested that a better solution would be if, 
rather then sniffing for "Firefox", 'They' sniffed for "Gecko" which 
is/was used in the User Agent of Firefox, SeaMonkey, and a few other 
browsers as well.


Didn't happen. Isn't going to happen! Unfortunately!!


http://geckoisgecko.org/ is still out there, but badly outdated.

Unfortunately, most web site owners don't care if they're doing sniffing 
badly -- most of what's out there fits into *their* perceptions of how 
things are being done, and it's easy to dismiss outliers that don't fit 
those perceptions (or what they see in their logs).


For better or worse, Google Chrome is the de facto standard (especially 
with most of the alternatives, including Safari, Opera, and soon to 
come, Edge) all running on the Blink rendering engine.  Even for Firefox 
proper, the usage share is low enough that many developers can get away 
with living in Chrome, developing for Chrome, and not really caring 
about anything else.


Smith
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Daniel]

Ant wrote on 25/04/2019 6:55 PM:

On 4/24/2019 2:12 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:


Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the 
setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify 
itself as Firefox!


Help?  Thanks in advance.


Simply disable "Advertise Firefox compatibility" and reload:

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | HTTP Networking

It's weird that they're demanding Firefox but rejecting a browser that 
says it's Firefox-compatible in favor of one that doesn't. But web 
designers aren't always the sharpest pencils in the box.


Nice find. This issue should be reported to the web site owners to sniff 
SM's UA correctly.


Ant, years ago, it was suggested that a better solution would be if, 
rather then sniffing for "Firefox", 'They' sniffed for "Gecko" which 
is/was used in the User Agent of Firefox, SeaMonkey, and a few other 
browsers as well.


Didn't happen. Isn't going to happen! Unfortunately!!
--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Ant via support-seamonkey]

On 4/25/2019 2:14 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

Ant wrote on 25-04-19 10:55:

On 4/24/2019 2:12 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:


Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the 
setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify 
itself as Firefox!


Help?  Thanks in advance.


Simply disable "Advertise Firefox compatibility" and reload:

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | HTTP Networking

It's weird that they're demanding Firefox but rejecting a browser 
that says it's Firefox-compatible in favor of one that doesn't. But 
web designers aren't always the sharpest pencils in the box.


Nice find. This issue should be reported to the web site owners to 
sniff SM's UA correctly.


I think that they don't care about a dying product 


It's still worth a shot. I already left them a feedback last night. 
Everyone should in here. ;)

--
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dubious practice of abstinence, surely the worst idea since 
chocolate-covered ants." --Dick Cavett
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see 
this signature correctly.

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Ray_Net]

Ant wrote on 25-04-19 10:55:

On 4/24/2019 2:12 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:


Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the 
setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify 
itself as Firefox!


Help?  Thanks in advance.


Simply disable "Advertise Firefox compatibility" and reload:

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | HTTP Networking

It's weird that they're demanding Firefox but rejecting a browser 
that says it's Firefox-compatible in favor of one that doesn't. But 
web designers aren't always the sharpest pencils in the box.


Nice find. This issue should be reported to the web site owners to 
sniff SM's UA correctly.


I think that they don't care about a dying product 
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[NFN Smith]

WaltS48 wrote:
If you read my previous reply and the one from Paul B. Gallagher, you 
see that we get the page to load and don't get an Unsupported Browser 
Notice when disabling "Advertise Firefox Compatibility".



Right.  I managed not to address that.  If turning off advertising 
compatibility works, do it.


Smith

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[WaltS48]

On 4/25/19 3:13 PM, NFN Smith wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the 
setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify 
itself as Firefox!



This one is a growing issue, and has been since the release of Firefox, 
circa 57.0. A growing number of site operators are rejecting older 
versions as "dated" (and with known security issues), and I know that 
there were sites rejecting Firefox 52.x ESR implementations (even if 
still supported) before 60.x ESR was released.


I haven't seen it a lot, although I know of one financial institution 
that I deal with that complains about outdated browser, although it 
doesn't deny access.


There's a significant number of Web developers and admins that really 
don't know browsers well, what's supported or not.  A further problem is 
that most web sites get significant amounts of bot-generated traffic 
that use forged User Agent strings.  I've done some work on that with my 
own web site, and even though I go conservatively, I still reject a lot 
of traffic that shows old versions of browsers, or User Agent strings 
that have syntax errors that are obviously forged.


One of the dynamics is that with Google Chrome, they're aggressive 
enough about forcing updates on users that for a site operator, it's 
generally safe to assume that anything that's more than about 2 versions 
older than the most current version, it's safe to assume that it's 
forged, and is safe to reject.  This effect is amplified by both 
developers and admins that mostly live in Chrome (and don't know much 
about Mozilla's architecture, including Seamonkey as a derivative).


Although historically, Seamonkey users have sometimes had to struggle 
with sites that demand Firefox (especially before Seamonkey started 
advertising Firefox compatibility), it is becoming more common that 
sites reject Seamonkey, not necessarily because of Seamonkey, but that 
it's advertising compatibility with Firefox 52.


I do some with spoofing using PrefBar, and I have some number of spoofs 
of other browsers that I may make use of occasionally.  So far, I 
haven't really had to try to spoof Seamonkey 53 or 57 (and Firefox 60 
capacity), but I anticipate doing so before too long.


I did check davita.com, and none of the spoofing I use (whether a stock 
Firefox 60, or for that matter, stock Chrome or Opera strings) are 
getting me past that complaint.  At that stage, it's a pretty good guess 
that the site developer/admin is doing browser sniffing badly. However, 
it's also a guess that they see few enough Seamonkey users (other than 
you) that they're not going to bother to make any changes.


You may need to simply bite the bullet and use another browser for that 
site.


Smith


If you read my previous reply and the one from Paul B. Gallagher, you 
see that we get the page to load and don't get an Unsupported Browser 
Notice when disabling "Advertise Firefox Compatibility".




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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[NFN Smith]

Brian Mailman wrote:

Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting 
is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!



This one is a growing issue, and has been since the release of Firefox, 
circa 57.0. A growing number of site operators are rejecting older 
versions as "dated" (and with known security issues), and I know that 
there were sites rejecting Firefox 52.x ESR implementations (even if 
still supported) before 60.x ESR was released.


I haven't seen it a lot, although I know of one financial institution 
that I deal with that complains about outdated browser, although it 
doesn't deny access.


There's a significant number of Web developers and admins that really 
don't know browsers well, what's supported or not.  A further problem is 
that most web sites get significant amounts of bot-generated traffic 
that use forged User Agent strings.  I've done some work on that with my 
own web site, and even though I go conservatively, I still reject a lot 
of traffic that shows old versions of browsers, or User Agent strings 
that have syntax errors that are obviously forged.


One of the dynamics is that with Google Chrome, they're aggressive 
enough about forcing updates on users that for a site operator, it's 
generally safe to assume that anything that's more than about 2 versions 
older than the most current version, it's safe to assume that it's 
forged, and is safe to reject.  This effect is amplified by both 
developers and admins that mostly live in Chrome (and don't know much 
about Mozilla's architecture, including Seamonkey as a derivative).


Although historically, Seamonkey users have sometimes had to struggle 
with sites that demand Firefox (especially before Seamonkey started 
advertising Firefox compatibility), it is becoming more common that 
sites reject Seamonkey, not necessarily because of Seamonkey, but that 
it's advertising compatibility with Firefox 52.


I do some with spoofing using PrefBar, and I have some number of spoofs 
of other browsers that I may make use of occasionally.  So far, I 
haven't really had to try to spoof Seamonkey 53 or 57 (and Firefox 60 
capacity), but I anticipate doing so before too long.


I did check davita.com, and none of the spoofing I use (whether a stock 
Firefox 60, or for that matter, stock Chrome or Opera strings) are 
getting me past that complaint.  At that stage, it's a pretty good guess 
that the site developer/admin is doing browser sniffing badly. However, 
it's also a guess that they see few enough Seamonkey users (other than 
you) that they're not going to bother to make any changes.


You may need to simply bite the bullet and use another browser for that 
site.


Smith
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[chokito]

Works fine in 2.49.5 with user agent "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; 
rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0"
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Ant via support-seamonkey]

On 4/24/2019 2:12 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:


Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the 
setting is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify 
itself as Firefox!


Help?  Thanks in advance.


Simply disable "Advertise Firefox compatibility" and reload:

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | HTTP Networking

It's weird that they're demanding Firefox but rejecting a browser that 
says it's Firefox-compatible in favor of one that doesn't. But web 
designers aren't always the sharpest pencils in the box.


Nice find. This issue should be reported to the web site owners to sniff 
SM's UA correctly.

--
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Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see 
this signature correctly.

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Ant via support-seamonkey]

You might have to change your web browser's user agent. Its home page 
worked for me with "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0" on my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 
PC's SeaMonkey v2.49.4 web browser. Maybe try changing its user agent?



On 4/24/2019 12:50 PM, Brian Mailman wrote:

Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting 
is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!


Help?  Thanks in advance.-- 

"Thanks for giving me the courage to eat all those ants." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see 
this signature correctly.

   /\___/\ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.ma.cx /
  / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org
 | |o   o| |   Axe ANT from its address if shown & e-mailing privately.
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[WaltS48]

On 4/24/19 3:50 PM, Brian Mailman wrote:

Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting 
is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!


Help?  Thanks in advance.

B/



I get the same using SeaMonkey 2.49.4 with "Advertise Firefox 
Compatibility" enabled.


As Paul suggested disable that and the page loads.

The Firefox 45.x.x ESR that SeaMpnkey 2.48 is based on is outdated 
(stopped receiving updates in April 2017) and has been replaced by 
Firefox 60 ESR.


SeaMonkey 2.49.x is based on Firefox 52.x.x ESR which stopped getting 
updates in June 2018.


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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Felix Miata]

Brian Mailman composed on 2019-04-24 12:50 (UTC-0700):

> Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
> Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com . 

Idiotic web page design. :-(

> The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting 
> is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!

> Help?  Thanks in advance.

about:config
general.useragent.override.fedex.com
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0
works at fedex.com, ought to work in similar manner at davita.com.
-- 
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 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Brian Mailman wrote:


Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting 
is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!


Help?  Thanks in advance.


Simply disable "Advertise Firefox compatibility" and reload:

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | HTTP Networking

It's weird that they're demanding Firefox but rejecting a browser that 
says it's Firefox-compatible in favor of one that doesn't. But web 
designers aren't always the sharpest pencils in the box.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[Dirk Fieldhouse]

On 24/04/19 20:50, Brian Mailman wrote:
> Windows 10
> Seamonkey 2.48
> 
> Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my
> Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .
> 
> The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting
> is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!

Normally I'd say bin the site until the backer learns how to make one
that works, but this looks like something people might need.

Does the site work apart from the notice?

If so, some config on your side would avoid the notice. For instance
user CSS like this

  .dv-unsupported-browsers {
display: none;
  }
would hide the notice, or user JS like this

  for (let t of document.querySelectorAll('.dv-unsupported-browsers')) {
  t.remove();
  }
would delete it.

An extension such as Stylish helps to apply user CSS. A NoScript
surrogate helps to apply user JS to specific sites.

Or change the version of Firefox that you're spoofing to a later one?

-- 
London
UK
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Re: Unsupported Browser Notice

[TCW via support-seamonkey]

On 4/24/2019 2:50 PM, Brian Mailman wrote:

Windows 10
Seamonkey 2.48

Hi, I'm now receiving a notice of "Unsupported Browser" and that my 
Seamonkey is "outdated" when I try to go to davita.com .


The notice recommends Firefox, among others. I forget where the setting 
is, but I do have this copy of Seamonkey set to identify itself as Firefox!


Help?  Thanks in advance.

B/



Although it's not official, you could always try the .ZIP of Bill's 
build of 2.53 from here: http://www.wg9s.com/comm-253/. I'd back up your 
profile for sure.


I was using the 2.57 build for a while until something recently started 
breaking and I basically finally gave up and switched over to FF (at 
least until or if ever it's released via Mozilla)

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