Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[garzascreek]

As a user mentioned on the community.ebay.com site referenced earlier, turning 
off TLS 1.0 in the security preferences is the solution.
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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[NFN Smith]

TCW wrote:

On 6/12/2018 11:58 PM, Daniel wrote:

TCW wrote on 12/06/18 23:17:


But be aware that even with the "Advertise Firefox" setting set, some 
sites still act up. Seems some now only work if Firefox is the only 
Browser mentioned so kick up a stink if SeaMonkey and Firefox are 
mentioned  or if Firefox and SeaMonkey are mentioned.


Some, hereabouts, have suggested creating a UserAgent pref that would 
apply to the specific, troublesome, site.


I don't think it will completely not load. I mean, come on. Do you know 
how many people that would affect? It's like pointing a gun in someone's 
face and saying they *have* to use this browser or else. Doesn't work 
that way. They'll lose money and issue a mea culpa.


A lot depends on how a site is built. The most common way of browser 
handling is via scripting that checks the presented User Agent string. 
Some sites may simply grumble about an unsupported browser, others may 
not allow additional access. And if you block scripting with something 
such as NoScript, you may not see complaints at all.


There's also non-scripting ways of forcing compliance.  On the web site 
I maintain, I have several rules in place that reject connections by 
certain browser IDs.  In my case, I use those for forged UAs, because I 
know that the access is malicious.  There's one operation that shows 
browser access as "Firefox 40.1" (a version which was never valid). If 
somebody goes to this site with a browser that's showing that, the 
connection will be rejected with a 403 error (and it's something I've 
tested with a spoofed UA string.)


Mostly, browser sniffing is simply looking for an acceptable version 
level.  Thus, as noted elsewhere in this thread, sites are increasingly 
complaining about UA strings that show Firefox 52, not knowing (or 
caring) that Firefox 52.x ESR (and other Mozilla derivatives that are 
based on that) are valid browsers, with current support.  I think a lot 
of the complaints that are coming from sites that have decided that 
anything that's before 57.0 and Quantum should not be used.


On the other hand, there are sites that will object if they see anything 
other than a valid Firefox UA string.  That would be one that has all 
the appropriate Firefox data but also shows the current Seamonkey 
version (which is what you get if you use "Advertise Firefox".  I know 
that chase.com has a reputation of problems there, but personally, I've 
never had problems there if I set the UA string to stock Firefox 
(without advertising compatibility). I've never bothered to check to see 
if other browsers that do similar compatibility advertising have 
problems at Chase.  That would include things like PaleMoon, or Opera (a 
Chromium derivative), which shows a Chrome UA, and then notes 
Opera-specific version info.


There's a variety of reasons that a site may object to Seamonkey (or an 
ESR version of Firefox);


- Security. It's not unreasonable to expect a reasonably current version 
that's updated on security patches.  I don't maintain our corporate web 
site, but I do know that there's a minimum version of Firefox that's 
considered to be acceptable.


- Support. For consumer-facing sites (especially financial sites), it's 
really common for the support people to demand a limited number of 
browsers, and I think this is the issue at Chase. Management decides "we 
only support browsers X, Y and Z", and if they find you're running 
anything else and you need their help, they'll end the conversation. 
Ultimately, this is the same attitude as from 20 years ago, when sites 
were supporting IE only.  They simply didn't want to bother with any 
variations.  Thus, even though Seamonkey is derived from Firefox, and 
runs the same Gecko engine (and has all the same capacities), a 
difference as simple as getting to configs by going to Hamburger Menu -> 
Options, and a tab-centric interface in Firefox, as opposed to 
Seamonkey's Edit -> Preferences, and a tree-oriented UI is more than 
they want to bother with. From a support standpoint, they want to *know* 
what the user is seeing, and not have to guess at UI variants.


- Indifference/laziness: Some devs don't know (or care to know) about 
derivative projcts, and why people may want to use them.  On their part, 
"one size fits all" is a whole lot easier for them.  But that's not 
really much different than software developers that set their installers 
to default to all _their_ preferred options, with the expectation that 
most users won't bother to change the defaults.


Smith
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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[WaltS48]

On 6/13/18 12:57 AM, Henrik37 wrote:

NFN Smith wrote:

Snip


Big Jim wrote:

If you have things set so that Firefox Compatibility is enabled, 
Seamonkey 2.49.x identifies itself as Firefox 52.0  For most sites 
that are complaining about outdated browsers, it's likely that most of 
them are keying that off seeing Firefox 52 (and devs/admins that don't 
know/care about the Firefox ESR branch).  It also seems that given the 
scope of improvements that came with Firefox 57, a growing number of 
sites are now designating Firefox 57.0 as the minimum browser version.



Snip


Smith


For someone who has never heard about a 'Firefox Compatibility' feature 
before, can you direct me on how to enable it?





Already enabled according to your User Agent in the message header.

"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.3"


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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[Daniel]

TCW wrote on 13/06/18 23:01:

On 6/12/2018 11:58 PM, Daniel wrote:

TCW wrote on 12/06/18 23:17:

On 6/11/2018 8:07 PM, Big Jim wrote:
As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
message I received is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may 
compromise your security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay 
with your current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!


Meh, not likely to do anything. Just make sure that at least Edit > 
Preferences > Advanced > HTTP Networking > Advertise Firefox 
Compatibility is enabled. Or just do: 
http://ficara.altervista.org/?p=2528


I'm using FRG's build of SM 2.53 and eBay hasn't complained to me 
about anything.


But be aware that even with the "Advertise Firefox" setting set, some 
sites still act up. Seems some now only work if Firefox is the only 
Browser mentioned so kick up a stink if SeaMonkey and Firefox are 
mentioned  or if Firefox and SeaMonkey are mentioned.


Some, hereabouts, have suggested creating a UserAgent pref that would 
apply to the specific, troublesome, site.


I don't think it will completely not load. I mean, come on. Do you know 
how many people that would affect? It's like pointing a gun in someone's 
face and saying they *have* to use this browser or else. Doesn't work 
that way. They'll lose money and issue a mea culpa.


Hey, you're preaching to the converted here, I'm just reporting what 
others have reported here, before.

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623

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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[TCW]

On 6/12/2018 11:58 PM, Daniel wrote:

TCW wrote on 12/06/18 23:17:

On 6/11/2018 8:07 PM, Big Jim wrote:
As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
message I received is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise 
your security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay 
with your current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!


Meh, not likely to do anything. Just make sure that at least Edit > 
Preferences > Advanced > HTTP Networking > Advertise Firefox 
Compatibility is enabled. Or just do: 
http://ficara.altervista.org/?p=2528


I'm using FRG's build of SM 2.53 and eBay hasn't complained to me 
about anything.


But be aware that even with the "Advertise Firefox" setting set, some 
sites still act up. Seems some now only work if Firefox is the only 
Browser mentioned so kick up a stink if SeaMonkey and Firefox are 
mentioned  or if Firefox and SeaMonkey are mentioned.


Some, hereabouts, have suggested creating a UserAgent pref that would 
apply to the specific, troublesome, site.


I don't think it will completely not load. I mean, come on. Do you know 
how many people that would affect? It's like pointing a gun in someone's 
face and saying they *have* to use this browser or else. Doesn't work 
that way. They'll lose money and issue a mea culpa.

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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[David E. Ross]

On 6/12/2018 9:57 PM, Henrik37 wrote:
> NFN Smith wrote:
> 
> Snip
> 
>> Big Jim wrote:
>>
>> If you have things set so that Firefox Compatibility is enabled, 
>> Seamonkey 2.49.x identifies itself as Firefox 52.0  For most sites that 
>> are complaining about outdated browsers, it's likely that most of them 
>> are keying that off seeing Firefox 52 (and devs/admins that don't 
>> know/care about the Firefox ESR branch).  It also seems that given the 
>> scope of improvements that came with Firefox 57, a growing number of 
>> sites are now designating Firefox 57.0 as the minimum browser version.
>>
> Snip
> 
>> Smith
> 
> For someone who has never heard about a 'Firefox Compatibility' feature 
> before, can you direct me on how to enable it?
> 
> 

1.  On the SeaMonkey menu bar, select [Edit > Preferences].

2.  On the left side of the Preferences window, select [Advanced > HTTP
Networking].

3.  On the HTTP Networking pane, put a checkmark in the checkbox for
"Advertise Firefox compatibility".

4.  On the HTTP Networking pane, select the OK button.

-- 
David E. Ross


First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song.  He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.
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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[Henrik37 via support-seamonkey]

NFN Smith wrote:

Snip


Big Jim wrote:

If you have things set so that Firefox Compatibility is enabled, 
Seamonkey 2.49.x identifies itself as Firefox 52.0  For most sites that 
are complaining about outdated browsers, it's likely that most of them 
are keying that off seeing Firefox 52 (and devs/admins that don't 
know/care about the Firefox ESR branch).  It also seems that given the 
scope of improvements that came with Firefox 57, a growing number of 
sites are now designating Firefox 57.0 as the minimum browser version.



Snip


Smith


For someone who has never heard about a 'Firefox Compatibility' feature 
before, can you direct me on how to enable it?



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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[Daniel]

TCW wrote on 12/06/18 23:17:

On 6/11/2018 8:07 PM, Big Jim wrote:
As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
message I received is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise 
your security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay 
with your current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!


Meh, not likely to do anything. Just make sure that at least Edit > 
Preferences > Advanced > HTTP Networking > Advertise Firefox 
Compatibility is enabled. Or just do: http://ficara.altervista.org/?p=2528


I'm using FRG's build of SM 2.53 and eBay hasn't complained to me about 
anything.


But be aware that even with the "Advertise Firefox" setting set, some 
sites still act up. Seems some now only work if Firefox is the only 
Browser mentioned so kick up a stink if SeaMonkey and Firefox are 
mentioned  or if Firefox and SeaMonkey are mentioned.


Some, hereabouts, have suggested creating a UserAgent pref that would 
apply to the specific, troublesome, site.

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623

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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[NFN Smith]

Big Jim wrote:
As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
message I received is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise 
your security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay with 
your current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!


If you have things set so that Firefox Compatibility is enabled, 
Seamonkey 2.49.x identifies itself as Firefox 52.0  For most sites that 
are complaining about outdated browsers, it's likely that most of them 
are keying that off seeing Firefox 52 (and devs/admins that don't 
know/care about the Firefox ESR branch).  It also seems that given the 
scope of improvements that came with Firefox 57, a growing number of 
sites are now designating Firefox 57.0 as the minimum browser version.


I'm guessing that if you use a copy of Firefox 52.9 ESR, you'll get the 
same complaint. I'm assuming that the problem happens only with eBay 
checkout, and since I don't have an eBay account, I can't verify.


If you have a fully updated browser based on the ESR version, you're 
still secure (although perhaps there may be extensions that are no 
longer being maintained that need security updates), but I don't think 
there's been any significant updates the Gecko rendering engine recently 
that would cause an older version not to work properly.


Thus, the typical work-around for this kind of problem is User Agent 
spoofing, which allows you to show your browser as a fully current 
version of Firefox.


There's a couple of extensions that allow for that (PrefBar, User Agent 
Switcher), or you can also do tweaking through about:config. I don't 
have the details memorized, but I know there's helps for that at 
mozillazine.org.


Smith
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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[TCW]

On 6/11/2018 8:07 PM, Big Jim wrote:
As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
message I received is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise 
your security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay with 
your current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!


Meh, not likely to do anything. Just make sure that at least Edit > 
Preferences > Advanced > HTTP Networking > Advertise Firefox 
Compatibility is enabled. Or just do: http://ficara.altervista.org/?p=2528


I'm using FRG's build of SM 2.53 and eBay hasn't complained to me about 
anything.

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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Big Jim wrote:

As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
message I received is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise 
your security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay with 
your current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!


See also:



--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[Jim Dell]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
I am not seeing anything logging in with with 2.49.4 and 2.53. Does this 
show only during checkout?


FRG

Big Jim wrote:
As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
message I received is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise 
your security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay 
with your current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!

It's not the 19th yet.
Try that on the 20th to see what happens.

Jim
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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

I am not seeing anything logging in with with 2.49.4 and 2.53. Does this show 
only during checkout?


FRG

Big Jim wrote:
As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the SeaMonkey 
browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the message I received 
is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise your 
security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay with your 
current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!

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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[David E. Ross]

On 6/11/2018 6:07 PM, Big Jim wrote:
> As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
> SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
> message I received is below...
> 
> eBay
> 
> Oh No!
> 
> We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise 
> your security as you shop online.
> 
> As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay with 
> your current browser.
> Update to the latest version now so you can continue
> to check out safely and securely.
>   
> Why must we continually put up with this!
> 

I see a similar warning when viewing the Web site of the U.S. Postal
Service.  However, I can still track a mailed item and also determine
the amount of postage required on a package or large envelope WITHOUT
spoofing some other browser.

-- 
David E. Ross


First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song.  He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.
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Re: ebay and SeaMonkey Browser Support

[Henrik37 via support-seamonkey]

Big Jim wrote:
As of June 19th, ebay states that they will no longer support the 
SeaMonkey browser because it is outdated and unsafe.  A paste of the 
message I received is below...


eBay

Oh No!

We noticed that you’re on an outdated web browser that may compromise 
your security as you shop online.


As of June 19, 2018 you will no longer be able to check out on eBay with 
your current browser.

Update to the latest version now so you can continue
to check out safely and securely.

Why must we continually put up with this!


I am using v.2.49.3 and have received the same message from e-Bay.  Is 
the e-Bay technical staff as uninformed as the JP Morgan/Chase Bank staff?


What can be done?
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