Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Today is the last opportunity to hear the BBC live experimental 4.0 internet transmissions of this year's Proms from the Royal Albert Hall. The Last Night is made for sursound and should be worth hearing with the BBC's mic setup. The concert starts at 7:30 pm BST, which is 2:30 pm EDT. The traditional party part of the concert really gets going about two hours later. Info here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/BBC-Proms-in-Surround-Sound Test signal here: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/proms/test.html Concert here: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/proms/ (preceded by 30 mins or so of further test signals) David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Sadly, I'm sitting in a church on the other side of town making my own surround recording of works by Nick and Tony Bicât, so will miss it. Impressed with what I've heard so far, though. If anyone makes a recording, I'd love a copy. Hope it all goes well and thanks for putting the test together. John Sent from my iPad On 13 Sep 2014, at 17:23, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: Today is the last opportunity to hear the BBC live experimental 4.0 internet transmissions of this year's Proms from the Royal Albert Hall. The Last Night is made for sursound and should be worth hearing with the BBC's mic setup. The concert starts at 7:30 pm BST, which is 2:30 pm EDT. The traditional party part of the concert really gets going about two hours later. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Icant test 64tk soundflower but I use 16 tk version ie 1.5.2 ish - because Protools wont use the 64tk You could try going back uninstall and install older version but I dont get firefox working with test file Its fine on chrome in 10.8 and 10.6 mick On 20 Jul 2014, at 19:12, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: Am 19.07.14 18:47, schrieb m...@superorg.com: Easy to record stream on a Mac Install Cycling74's Soundflower its free and doesnt interfere with anything I've spent the afternoon trying various things and Chrome doesn't output any sound through the 64-channel version. 2-channels works. With Firefox, both the 2- and 64-channel versions work fine, but not 64 from Chrome. Can anyone confirm this from his system? Setup here is the latest Mac Mini running under 10.8 with 16 GB of RAM. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Thanks everyone for the feedback and if you get the experiment to work for you please feel free to comment via the blog. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/BBC-Proms-in-Surround-Sound To provide a bit more detail to the biggest concern within this group, which seems to be around universality. When the BBC first started F.M. transmissions most people couldn't receive them and it took about 20 years for the majority of listening to move from A.M. Does this mean we were wrong to spend license payers money on F.M.? Yes, it is frustrating that the adoption of HTML5 and the Audio API Media Source Extension within it has been very slow and so far only Chrome and IE11 fully support it. It's also frustrating that the combination of Chrome and Apple seems to make the audio come from the wrong speakers so people have to replug. But it's only through content creators making content available using these standards that the browser makers will be persuaded to implement them. I would love to be able to offer surround sound radio over the TV but I would need to pay for the correct data feeds to be created to get the content into the EPG, without which nobody would find the content. I would need to pay Red Bee to add the data to the EPG, I would need to pay somebody to get 4 channels of full bandwidth uncompressed audio synchronously from the Royal Albert Hall to our two coding and multiplexing centres, I would need to pay Atos to provide additional capability at those centres to code an audio only surround sound service and add it to the multiplex and I would need to take bandwidth away from other services to make space for my new service. With the Commonwealth Games about to begin, I'm not going to get that bandwidth. And even if I could do all that, there's no guarantee it would work - from informal conversations with manufacturers I don't think TVs cope with audio only surround sound services. Of course most TVs now are Smart TVs with an IP connection and a web browser. Given that most people who have a surround sound system have it connected to their TV I think it's important that I find a way to deliver surround sound radio to the TV and as I can't do it through the broadcast channels, the browser is the best bet. Of course the browsers in TVs, set top boxes and blue-ray players don't yet support HTML5 etc etc yet, but it's only a matter of time. The beauty of this approach is that once these standards are adopted within consumer products you will just need to click play on a web page on your TV to enjoy the service. Some people have commented that we should make a normal surround sound stream available but I'm not at all sure what they mean by this. For live streaming you need a codec and a transport layer. Our normal transport layers Flash and Shoutcast. Flash won't support more than stereo, Shoutcast can but support for this is very limited. MPEG-DASH, on the other hand, is rapidly becoming the standard way to transport streaming media over IP with more and more companies supporting it. If anybody would like to set up a demonstration of live streaming of surround content which will play natively in a browser using different technologies then please let me know. I'm not using MPEG-DASH to be difficult, I'm using it because we have figured out how to make it carry good quality surround sound reliably and play in the browser without third party plug-ins, and because it is an agreed standard which is widely supported. If any of you have a better way of doing that please share it! -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140721/94574418/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Rupert Brun wrote: Some people have commented that we should make a normal surround sound stream available but I'm not at all sure what they mean by this. For live streaming you need a codec and a transport layer. Our normal transport layers Flash and Shoutcast. Flash won't support more than stereo, Shoutcast can but support for this is very limited. MPEG-DASH, on the other hand, is rapidly becoming the standard way to transport streaming media over IP with more and more companies supporting it. I've not got anything against DASH, though I do find the analogy with FM a bit weak given the amount of time content was available on both AM and FM. So what is a normal stream -I doubt I am that exceptional as a Linux user in not using browser/flash to access BBC content. Take for example the R3 HD stream - I see nothing exclusively to do with browser/flash/Shoutcast. .pls is widely supported so all I would do is - mplayer -playlist http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls I could even download r3_aaclca.pls with wget look in it and download with wget using the long http:// url. Happily the stream is aac in adts over http many many players across all OSes will be able to play it. If it were 4 channel aac/adts then the decoder would see it as such. If anybody would like to set up a demonstration of live streaming of surround content which will play natively in a browser using different technologies then please let me know. I'm not using MPEG-DASH to be difficult, I'm using it because we have figured out how to make it carry good quality surround sound reliably and play in the browser without third party plug-ins, and because it is an agreed standard which is widely supported. If any of you have a better way of doing that please share it! I don't via browser - DASH is fine for your objectives, but I hope you see what I mean by normal stream - You could provide one - just via a link somewhere - the browser/flash requirement/restriction is your arbitary choice. I accept that that's the way things currently are but this is a trial, and not using flash is the point, so there's no harm if you wanted in providing a real link to a normal http stream just like R3 HD. As it's a trial that requires people to have their computer plumbed into a surround system I don't think you can argue that they would be incapable of directly using a player capable of surround output - I would speculate that they already have one and know how to use it. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
the browser/flash requirement/restriction is your arbitary choice. I doubt I am that exceptional as a Linux user in not using browser/flash to access BBC content. I could even download r3_aaclca.pls with wget look in it and download with wget using the long http:// url. I think we are getting to the nub of the issue. Wanting something to play in the browser isn't my arbitrary choice, it's how normal people consume media and I need to test something which will eventually work for normal people. As where many of the members of this group (and I mean this in the nicest way and include myself) are not normal - we like to experiment, we use Linux, we access the streams in ways the broadcasters don't intend us to, we write code. This experiment isn't for people like us - it is to test something which will one day allow normal people to access surround sound through the web browser. That's what the experiment is about - testing MPEG Dash surround through a browser, because that's a strategic solution which I believe will become mainstream. It's also about testing the production challenges of one person creating a surround sound balance and a stereo balance of a live classical music concert at the same time, because I can't afford to have 2 sound balancers and I don't like the results from automated upmixing or downmixing. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, it's about finding out what works aesthetically and what doesn't when using surround sound from a live classi cal concert. Of course one could devise an experiment which would deliver surround sound to people who want to use Linux and wget but that would be a different experiment which I am very happy to leave to others to try. Rupert ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Rupert Brun wrote: the browser/flash requirement/restriction is your arbitary choice. I doubt I am that exceptional as a Linux user in not using browser/flash to access BBC content. I could even download r3_aaclca.pls with wget look in it and download with wget using the long http:// url. I think we are getting to the nub of the issue. Wanting something to play in the browser isn't my arbitrary choice, it's how normal people consume media and I need to test something which will eventually work for normal people. As where many of the members of this group (and I mean this in the nicest way and include myself) are not normal - we like to experiment, we use Linux, we access the streams in ways the broadcasters don't intend us to, we write code. This experiment isn't for people like us - it is to test something which will one day allow normal people to access surround sound through the web browser. That's what the experiment is about - testing MPEG Dash surround through a browser, because that's a strategic solution which I believe will become mainstream. It's also about testing the production challenges of one person creating a surround sound balance and a stereo balance of a live classical music concert at the same time, because I can't afford to have 2 sound balancers and I don't like the results from automated upmixing or downmixing. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, it's about finding out what works aesthetically and what doesn't when using surround sound from a live classi cal concert. Fair enough, I can't disagree with any of that. Of course one could devise an experiment which would deliver surround sound to people who want to use Linux and wget but that would be a different experiment which I am very happy to leave to others to try. Just to be clear, as I didn't reiterate in my last post, though I did say previously - I understand this is a DASH/Browser test. I am not suggesting there should be some sort of different experiment, indeed it's nothing new - just the same as the existing R3 HD stream. My concern was that the content for the trial is unique and currently not available to all. The .pls type stream could have been in addition to the trial stream not instead of it and purely to allow access for those who didn't want to install a new closed browser/OS just to get it. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Am 19.07.14 18:47, schrieb m...@superorg.com: Easy to record stream on a Mac Install Cycling74's Soundflower its free and doesnt interfere with anything I've spent the afternoon trying various things and Chrome doesn't output any sound through the 64-channel version. 2-channels works. With Firefox, both the 2- and 64-channel versions work fine, but not 64 from Chrome. Can anyone confirm this from his system? Setup here is the latest Mac Mini running under 10.8 with 16 GB of RAM. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Am 18.07.14 15:21, schrieb Rupert Brun: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. Does anyone have the first idea how to record this stuff on a Mac? Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Well, it depends on how you're listening: because I'm using a Metric Halo ULN-8, I just route the decoded signal through their console application which lets me record all four channels. I would imagine that most sound cards will let you do the same thing, if that's how you're getting the signal to your sound system. Regards, John On 19 Jul 2014, at 10:13, Ralf R Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de wrote: Does anyone have the first idea how to record this stuff on a Mac? ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
On 19 Jul 2014, at 10:13, Ralf R Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de wrote: Does anyone have the first idea how to record this stuff on a Mac? At 12:35 19-07-14, John Leonard wrote: Well, it depends on how you're listening: because I'm using a Metric Halo ULN-8, I just route the decoded signal through their console application which lets me record all four channels. I would imagine that most sound cards will let you do the same thing, if that's how you're getting the signal to your sound system. It has to be do-able, but how you actually manage it depends on your A/D/A converter, which must obviously be at least 4-track. My PC motherboard has a Realtek chip, which allows 7.1 playback, but not record. I use an RME UFX firewire connection, which is able to record multichannels of whatever you can playback and has the advantage of Totalmix to do this, plus an excellent metering system called Digicheck. This also works on OS X. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Am 19.07.14 14:53, schrieb David Pickett: It has to be do-able, but how you actually manage it depends on your A/D/A converter, which must obviously be at least 4-track. I'm aware of the various possibilities to do this via an audio interface. I'd rather capture the signal in the digital domain. Unfortunately, the usual utilities to grab and save system audio (Audio Hijack Pro etc.) only work for two-channel signals. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
--On 19 July 2014 14:59 +0200 Ralf R Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de wrote: I'm aware of the various possibilities to do this via an audio interface. I'd rather capture the signal in the digital domain. Many of these interfaces can, through their control programs, do exactly that. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Sat, 19 Jul 2014 11:13:11 +0200, Ralf R Radermacher wrote : Am 18.07.14 15:21, schrieb Rupert Brun: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. Does anyone have the first idea how to record this stuff on a Mac? Ralf Here's how to do it on Linux. To get the sound of web browsers (including Chrome/Chromium), I use the Pulseaudio sound server, installed by default. I also use the jackd sound server with the pulseaudio module for jackd. There's a few ways to record the output of a jackd application; I prefer qarecord because of its user interface. Jackd is available for Mac OSX, so maybe there's a way to route the sound output of Chrome to jackd in order to record it. -- Marc ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 10:00:20AM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote: Here's how to do it on Linux. To get the sound of web browsers (including Chrome/Chromium), I use the Pulseaudio sound server, installed by default. I also use the jackd sound server with the pulseaudio module for jackd. There's a few ways to record the output of a jackd application; I prefer qarecord because of its user interface. Any way to make this work without PA (which I don't have and will not install) ? I tried * using an 8-channel card configured as the default ALSA device, * using the alsa-jack plugin configured for 5,6,7,8 channels. In both cases the surround channels are mapped to the front ones. Chromium 34. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Easy to record stream on a Mac Install Cycling74's Soundflower its free and doesnt interfere with anything Install Audacity its a free recorder Set your Macs Sound Output to Soundflower16 - at this point you wont hear anything from chrome at this point launch soundflowerbed and allocate tracks to play out of your outputs - you'll hear again Set Audacity to record a 5/6 channel input from soundflower16 Now audacity will record your stream - save at end to a multichanel wav or whatever mick On 19 Jul 2014, at 10:13, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: Am 18.07.14 15:21, schrieb Rupert Brun: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. Does anyone have the first idea how to record this stuff on a Mac? Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Hi Fons. I disabled PA and Jackd, enabled all output channels in alsamixer, and opened Chromium 34 on the test page: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/proms/test.html Chromium can use Alsa, but I also have a mapping problem. Here's what's coming out of my 7.1 sound card (per jack): Lime green (front): left: this is the left front channel right: this is the right front channel Black (rear): left: this is the centre front channel right: this is the left surround channel Orange (center/sub): left: this is the right surround channel right: silence... Grey (side): left: this is the left front channel right: this is the right front channel Then I reactivated PulseAudio and its jackd module, and now all channels are correctly assigned, except for the same copy of front to side. Maybe you can try remapping Alsa channels in a custom Alsa config file, setting the ALSA_CONFIG_PATH environment variable to this file before starting Chromium: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/LibEnvVars -- Marc Sat, 19 Jul 2014 14:39:45 +, wrote: On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 10:00:20AM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote: Here's how to do it on Linux. To get the sound of web browsers (including Chrome/Chromium), I use the Pulseaudio sound server, installed by default. I also use the jackd sound server with the pulseaudio module for jackd. There's a few ways to record the output of a jackd application; I prefer qarecord because of its user interface. Any way to make this work without PA (which I don't have and will not install) ? I tried * using an 8-channel card configured as the default ALSA device, * using the alsa-jack plugin configured for 5,6,7,8 channels. In both cases the surround channels are mapped to the front ones. Chromium 34. Ciao, ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Am 19.07.14 18:47, schrieb m...@superorg.com: Set your Macs Sound Output to Soundflower16 - at this point you wont hear anything from chrome This is as far as I get. Soundflower64, actually (only 2 or 64 channels here). at this point launch soundflowerbed and allocate tracks to play out of your outputs - That would be my Headzone Pro. you'll hear again That would be nice. Alas, I dont. No input signal in Audacity (or TwistedWave) either. Pity, really. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
I AM capturing it in the digital domain. It's 48kHz. David At 14:59 19-07-14, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: Am 19.07.14 14:53, schrieb David Pickett: It has to be do-able, but how you actually manage it depends on your A/D/A converter, which must obviously be at least 4-track. I'm aware of the various possibilities to do this via an audio interface. I'd rather capture the signal in the digital domain. Unfortunately, the usual utilities to grab and save system audio (Audio Hijack Pro etc.) only work for two-channel signals. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 9:47 AM, m...@superorg.com wrote: On 19 Jul 2014, at 10:13, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: Am 18.07.14 15:21, schrieb Rupert Brun: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. Does anyone have the first idea how to record this stuff on a Mac? Easy to record stream on a Mac Install Cycling74's Soundflower its free and doesnt interfere with anything Install Audacity its a free recorder Set your Macs Sound Output to Soundflower16 - at this point you wont hear anything from chrome at this point launch soundflowerbed and allocate tracks to play out of your outputs - you'll hear again Set Audacity to record a 5/6 channel input from soundflower16 I can't get Soundflowerbed to work on Mavericks -- it appears in the menu bar, but crashes as soon as I select an input channel. Instead, I created an aggregate device (using Audio MIDI Setup) with the Soundflower 16ch device as channels 1-16 and Built-in Output as 17 and 18. You then select Aggregate Device as the MacOS Output Device. I record to a 4-channel FLAC file using Plogue Bidule, routing channels 1,2,4,5 from Soundflower to a recorder and 1 and 2 to 17 18, to play over the builtin speakers to monitor. Unfortunately the volume control in the Menu Bar also controls the level of the signal that appears in Soundflower, so I turn that all the way up (to 11) and put a gain block in the path to Built-in Output to control the levels to the speakers. I put the Bidule setup, a screen grab of the Aggregate Device setup, and the 4-channel FLAC and Ogg Vorbis (q=6) files of the the Channel ID announcements and the last 20 minutes of Saturday's broadcast here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1DUyjAHI9QkajFqNi1PcVlYbmcusp=sharing Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com) Menlo Park, CA, US -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140719/66a51b94/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
David Pickett wrote: ... Regarding the lack of browser choice, I agree that it would be nice if all adhered to the HTML5 standard; but they dont. (What's the point of useful standards -- i.e. the HTML5 media tag -- if not everbody uses them?) I am sure it doesn't help that there is no actual HTML5 standard, as yet. That is to say, there is no *ratified* standard. The last time I looked, a ratified standard was scheduled for late 2014. Hopefully, when this happens, browsers will make an extra effort to adhere to it. Regards, Martin -- Martin J Leese E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. This is an experiment and may not always be working, but please give feedback through the blog or twitter using #BBCProms4 The blog with details and links to the player are here http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/BBC-Proms-in-Surround-Sound _ Rupert Brun. Head of Technology, BBC Radio. 5045 Broadcasting House Portland Place London W1A 1AA -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140718/e36274e1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Firstly, i must say a thank you for letting us know. But, after the last test it is obvious that a large majority of us were unable to enjoy these broadcasts due to the limited requirements. May i ask a question as a BBC licence payer. Why is this not available via the standard broadcast methods, Freeview Freesat? The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. This is an experiment and may not always be working, but please give feedback through the blog or twitter using #BBCProms4 The blog with details and links to the player are here http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/BBC-Proms-in-Surround-Sound _ Rupert Brun. Head of Technology, BBC Radio. 5045 Broadcasting House Portland Place London W1A 1AA -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140718/e36274e1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140718/fac832c1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Rupert Brun wrote: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. So the're available to the world subject to what browser/os you use, but not to me who pays the licence fee. Why must MPEG-DASH be used for this? It's not like it's some UHD Video that may need bitrate considerations. Why not just do a 4ch version of the 320kbit ADTS R3 stream, which works fine with pretty much anything, and also gives users the choice of aac decoders. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
On 07/18/2014 03:48 PM, Andy Furniss wrote: Rupert Brun wrote: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. So the're available to the world subject to what browser/os you use, but not to me who pays the licence fee. Why must MPEG-DASH be used for this? It's not like it's some UHD Video that may need bitrate considerations. Why not just do a 4ch version of the 320kbit ADTS R3 stream, which works fine with pretty much anything, and also gives users the choice of aac decoders. i'd guess auntie is as much interested in testing mpeg-dash as in 4.0 :) adaptive streaming has its nice aspects, both from the content provider's and the listener's point of view. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
We can't deliver over normal broadcast channels because we don't have the bandwidth and there would be very significant costs for a small audience. We are using MPEG DASH because it handles surround sound well and can be decoded entirely within the browser without any third party software and this will become important as more and more consumer devices such as TVs and set top boxes have web browsers built in. It is also rapidly becoming the standard for audio and visual content delivery over the web and we need to explore how it works. There are more detailed explanations in the blogs from the first experiment using this technology. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/Radio-3-in-40 http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2014/03/media-source-extensions Please ask any further questions via the blog or twitter using #BBCProms4 not through this list, so the questions and answers can reach a wider audience as I don't want to have to answer the same questions twice if possible. Many thanks, Rupert -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 14:34:58 +0100 From: Richard zoanne...@yahoo.co.uk To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0 Message-ID: 1FEE6A94610C4E9985F21531E479CB2B@DreamingSpires Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Firstly, i must say a thank you for letting us know. But, after the last test it is obvious that a large majority of us were unable to enjoy these broadcasts due to the limited requirements. May i ask a question as a BBC licence payer. Why is this not available via the standard broadcast methods, Freeview Freesat? Message: 3 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 14:48:38 +0100 From: Andy Furniss adf.li...@gmail.com To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0 Message-ID: 53c925b6.50...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Rupert Brun wrote: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. So the're available to the world subject to what browser/os you use, but not to me who pays the licence fee. Why must MPEG-DASH be used for this? It's not like it's some UHD Video that may need bitrate considerations. Why not just do a 4ch version of the 320kbit ADTS R3 stream, which works fine with pretty much anything, and also gives users the choice of aac decoders. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
At 15:34 18-07-14, Richard wrote: Firstly, i must say a thank you for letting us know. But, after the last test it is obvious that a large majority of us were unable to enjoy these broadcasts due to the limited requirements. I should be interested to know what you mean by limited requirements Did you give feedback at the time of the experimental broadcasts in March? Actually, the glass is at least half full, as far as I am concerned. I am not a lover of MP3 files at all, but I listened in March to nearly all the the BBC R3 webcasts from the Southbank and found the sound quality to be more than adequate. It allowed me to judge the quality and quantity of the surround sound and also to enjoy the music (which is prsumably what it is about). Encouraged by this, I put up on my website some of my own experiments in MP4. This was relatively easy to do and I was surprised by the sound quality when compared with my 24-bit originals. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Hi It looks interesting - but access via the digital networks would be easier. At least it should be simpler than the BBC's Quadraphonic trials back in the 1970's - that required to 2 FM receivers! Not sure that my internet is currently reliable enough - especially in the evenings, but I might give it a try. Every Blessing Tony On 18/07/2014 14:34, Richard wrote: Firstly, i must say a thank you for letting us know. But, after the last test it is obvious that a large majority of us were unable to enjoy these broadcasts due to the limited requirements. May i ask a question as a BBC licence payer. Why is this not available via the standard broadcast methods, Freeview Freesat? ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 07/18/2014 03:48 PM, Andy Furniss wrote: Rupert Brun wrote: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. So the're available to the world subject to what browser/os you use, but not to me who pays the licence fee. Why must MPEG-DASH be used for this? It's not like it's some UHD Video that may need bitrate considerations. Why not just do a 4ch version of the 320kbit ADTS R3 stream, which works fine with pretty much anything, and also gives users the choice of aac decoders. i'd guess auntie is as much interested in testing mpeg-dash as in 4.0 :) adaptive streaming has its nice aspects, both from the content provider's and the listener's point of view. I agree dash may well be the future, though from the links in Ruperts other post I see it's not adaptive for this test. My issue is really just the limited browser/OS choice currently, maybe if mine worked I wouldn't care :-) I all for the future - just this content is unique and could be easily made available as a normal stream in addition to the trial. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Rupert Brun wrote: We can't deliver over normal broadcast channels because we don't have the bandwidth and there would be very significant costs for a small audience. We are using MPEG DASH because it handles surround sound well and can be decoded entirely within the browser without any third party software and this will become important as more and more consumer devices such as TVs and set top boxes have web browsers built in. It is also rapidly becoming the standard for audio and visual content delivery over the web and we need to explore how it works. There are more detailed explanations in the blogs from the first experiment using this technology. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/Radio-3-in-40 http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2014/03/media-source-extensions Please ask any further questions via the blog or twitter using #BBCProms4 not through this list, so the questions and answers can reach a wider audience as I don't want to have to answer the same questions twice if possible. OK, no more questions, just grumbling :-) Thanks for the explanation and links above are interesting and informative. From one of them People expect to be able to consume BBC content on any platform Yep :-) I do, and this is unique content that I can't consume. There's nothing wrong with trialling this, but given that you know browser support is limited you could have easily provided an additional old style stream. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
Stream working well here - shame it's wildly out of sync with the broadcast picture, though. Some distortion apparent on FF passages? John On 18 Jul 2014, at 14:21, Rupert Brun rupert.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: The BBC will make the BBC Proms Concerts available in 4.0 using MPEG-DASH. The stream will be available internationally. This is an experiment and may not always be working, but please give feedback through the blog or twitter using #BBCProms4 The blog with details and links to the player are here http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/BBC-Proms-in-Surround-Sound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
At 21:38 18-07-14, John Leonard wrote: Stream working well here - shame it's wildly out of sync with the broadcast picture, though. Some distortion apparent on FF passages? Yes, I heard some distortion on the violins in places: it sounds digital but I wasnt sure where it came from, as I've heard similar from the ORF web relays (stereo). Regarding the lack of browser choice, I agree that it would be nice if all adhered to the HTML5 standard; but they dont. (What's the point of useful standards -- i.e. the HTML5 media tag -- if not everbody uses them?) I installed Chrome for the purpose of listening to these broadcasts, and it has been no trouble. I still use Firefox on principle for other browsing. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0
David Pickett wrote: At 21:38 18-07-14, John Leonard wrote: Stream working well here - shame it's wildly out of sync with the broadcast picture, though. Some distortion apparent on FF passages? Yes, I heard some distortion on the violins in places: it sounds digital but I wasnt sure where it came from, as I've heard similar from the ORF web relays (stereo). They apologised for sound issues at the end of the TV broadcast. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
