Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
My MB 300SD has about 50,000 miles since its last oil change. I installed a bypass filtration system and change the filter (a roll of toilet paper) every 2,500 miles and top up to 1/2 the dipstick level. The top up usually takes a litre of Mobil1 and this maintains the additive level. Ralph Woods at http://www.bypassfilter.com/ is the guy who sold it to me, he's very helpful and has been using these for decades. The system vents a small amount of oil from the lid of the MB filter housing, filters it and returns the oil to the valve cover. I think that dumping the additional oil up there can only help the valve train. I've installed two of these filters on my 2003 Ford F250 SD to filter the oil and fuel. Its only got about 20,000 km since the last oil change. I've been changing the filter on it every 3,000 km. In the Ford the oil pressure sending unit has been tee'd off venting a small amount of oil through the bypass filter which then returns the oil to the filler tube. In both cases the oil that comes out of the filter when I change them appears better than the oil was after regular oil changes. The stuff that came out of the MB was thick and black, the oil is still black, but not as dark and it appears much thinner. Regards Paul Marks PS my previous post (a month back) mentioned the problems I'd had posting, it is definately PEBKAS) - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 6:38 AM Subject: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change Any opinions on this? Best Keith From: The Motor Oil Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The Motor Oil Bible Update April 16, 2004 Hello, This message is going out to everyone who ever purchased The Motor Oil Bible or downloaded the free version (with the exception of anyone whoever requested to be removed from my mailing list - I respect everyone's right to opt-out). The Motor Oil Bible is now well over 150 pages and is now completely F,R,E,E (at least the electronic version is). There is no longer a free trial version and a full version. The FULL version is now provided for download at no charge. I feel very strongly that everyone out there needs to read this book as there is much environmental pollution and economic waste occuring as a result of the major oil companies' insistence on perpetuating The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change. So, I am no longer charging for the electonic version of my book. To those of you who paid for the electronic version in the past, I hope you don't feel like you got the short end of the stick. Previous to now, I was not in a financial position to offer the book without charge. Now I am, so that's what I'm doing. The reason that I am emailing you is because many of you have indicated to me in the past that you knew people you thought should read this information. However, many of them might not have been willing to PAY for the information. Now that the book is downloadable without charge, you may have friends or relatives who would be interested in reading the book. The only semi requirement I have is that people wanting to make sure they are downloading the latest edition of the book will want to register for an account on TheMotorOilSite.com discussion board. I do not charge for these memberships either. Technically, to get the book, they don't HAVE to register since anyone is welcome to send the book to a friend as an email attachment or put it up on their website server for download. The only potential issue is that the file may become outdated over time. If they register for an account on TheMotorOilSite.com they can be sure that the file they download is the latest copy available. At any rate, the latest iteration of the book had some revision as of September of 2002 and had technical specification updates as of August of 2003. Hopefully, there will be some more updates coming very soon and all registered members of TheMotorOilSite.com will receive notification when that update occurs. To download the latest version, please go to http://TheMotorOilSite.com and register for an account. Then, please notify anyone you feel might have interest in this material that the book is now available at no cost. People need to know that they are basically being lied to and it is costing them a great deal of time, money and aggrevation. Thank you, Mike Kaufman Motor Oil Bible Author http://Motor-Oil-Bible.com http://TheMotorOilSite.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [biofuel] road use tax?
tell them its for your racecar - Original Message - From: Mark Finewood To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 11:58 PM Subject: [biofuel] road use tax? I picked up a 55 gallon drum of methanol today. I told them that I would be using it to make biodiesel. The supplier asked me to sign a form that states that the methanol would be used for off-road purposes only or be subject to a road use tax. Has anyone run across this and how do you handle it? I just said that I plan to use the biodiesel for our tractor and possibly home heating. (I didn't mention that a lot will probably find it's way into my F250 as well.) Is there a way that we can pay the road use tax? I read on the biodiesel.org site that the tax is $0.244 per gallon. Thanks, Mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] NOx, injection timing and injection/combustion sensors
I understand that the increase in NOx when burning biodiesel/SVO is thought to be largely due to the compressibility of the fuel and an effective advancement of the timing as the fatty fuels will not compress as much as diesel fuel. I have for sometime wondered if the injector mounted sensors which detect the time of injection and alter the timing electronically (as used on VW/Audi Tdis etc.) or the combustion detectors (as developed by Toyota) would negate this effect. Addy Majewski in his Dieselnet.com article suggested similar (in the archives). I guess the combustion detector would have the potential to improve combustion with a range of fuels; ensuring combustion begins at the right moment within the cycle. I have been unable to find out which vehicles may use this system. Anyone know of any more info on these issues? Darren Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Converting Swine Manure to Oil: U of I Makes the Process Faster, Easier
http://www.thepigsite.com/LatestNews/?AREA=LatestNewsDisplay=7278 Tuesday, April 13, 2004 Converting Swine Manure to Oil: U of I Makes the Process Faster, Easier URBANA - Swine manure might just be the surprising key to reducing crude oil imports and creating a new industry in the United States. Need a Product or service? Swine manure is being converted to crude oil at the University of Illinois using a thermochemical conversion (TCC) process. But researchers have refined this existing process to make it more efficient and faster. The economic impact of such technology could be dramatic. If 50 percent of swine farms adopted this technology, we could see a $1.5 billion reduction in crude oil imports every year, said Yuanhui Zhang, U of I agricultural engineer. And swine producers could see a 10-percent increase in their income--about $10 to $15 per hog. In addition, Zhang said, the environmental benefits of this research are numerous. Minerals are preserved in the after treatment stream, odor is reduced and the oxygen demand of manure is reduced by 70 percent. TCC is a chemical process that reforms organic compounds in a heated and pressurized enclosure to produce oil and gas. The process that Zhang has developed uses swine manure as the organic material and coverts it to crude oil using a small-scale batch TCC reactor developed by Zhang's research team. According to Zhang, they conducted a series of experiments on variables that affected the oil conversion efficiency and oil quality. As result, they were able to define the desirable temperature range for the process, and reduce the retention time to about 15 minutes. (Retention time is the time required for the manure to remain in the TCC processor to allow oil conversion.) The process we have developed is quite different from most conventional TCC processes, said Zhang. There is no need for the addition of a catalyst, and our process does not require pre-drying of the manure. Swine manure containing 80-percent water can be fed directly into the reactor. Although the presence of water requires more energy to heat up the media, Zhang added, most of that energy can be recovered with a heat exchanger. With the batch reactor, researchers achieved an average of 70-percent conversion from swine manure volatile solids to oil. At that conversion efficiency, the manure excreted by one pig during the production cycle could produce up to 21 gallons of crude oil. What's more, a swine farm producing 10,000 market hogs per year could produce 5,000 barrels of crude oil per year. We further processed the TCC crude oil in our lab and obtained refined oil that had a heating value similar to that of diesel fuel, Zhang said. The next step for Zhang's research team is to develop the batch process into a continuous-mode process. In a continuous TCC process, the heat generated from the process can be recycled more efficiently, reducing the operating costs, said Zhang. Reactor volume can be reduced for the same capacity, which reduces the investment costs, and automated controls can be adapted more readily, which reduces the labor costs. Eventually, Zhang hopes to develop a TCC pilot plant which will increase production capacity and allow them to analyze the oil properties and seek alternative applications of the TCC oil, such as making plastics or ink. Developing a continuous TCC reactor will advance this technology one step closer to a TCC pilot plant, said Zhang. Zhang's research proposal was approved for funding under the Grainger Emerging Technology Program in the College of Engineering and awarded $100,000. Source: ACES News - 23rd March 2004 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Thermochemical Conversion of Swine Manure: Temperature Pressure Responses
http://www.age.uiuc.edu/bee/research/tcc/tccpaper1.htm uiul-ENG-98-7009 Paper No. 984016 An ASAE Meeting Presentation THERMOCHEMICAL CONVERSION OF SWINE MANURE: TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE RESPONSES By B.J. He Y. Zhang G. L. Riskowski T. L. Funk Graduate Research Assistant Associate Professor Professor Assistant Professor ASAE Student Member ASAE Member ASAE Member ASAE Member Department of Agricultural Engineering University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Urbana, Illinois, USA Written for Presentation at the 1998 ASAE Annual International Meeting Sponsored by ASAE Disney's Coronado Springs Resort Orlando, Florida July 12-16, 1998 Summary: A bench-scale thermochemical conversion (TCC) processor was developed to study the TCC of swine manure to oil and gases. The effects of the process parameters, including temperature, pressure, solids content, retention time, and pH, on the conversion of swine manure to oil and gases were examined. In this preliminary study, the ranges of the process parameters were 180-275¡C, 1.0-6.0 MPa, 20% total solids, 1.0 to 3.0 hours, and pH 6, respectively. The COD of the post-processed water was significantly reduced compared to the untreated slurry. Substantial heat was generated during the process. Preliminary data showed that the TCC process is promising and could be an attractive technology to treat swine manure. Keywords: Thermochemical conversion, swine manure, renewable energy The author(s) is solely responsible for the content of this technical presentation. The technical presentation does not necessarily reflect the official position of ASAE, and its printing and distribution does not constitute an endorsement of views which may be expressed. Technical presentations are not subject to the formal peer review process by ASAE editorial committees; therefore, they are not to be presented as refereed publications. Quotation from this work should state that it is from a presentation made by (name of author) at the (listed) ASAE meeting. EXAMPLE - From Author's Last Name, Initials. Title of Presentation. Presented at the Date and Title of meeting, Paper No. X. ASAS, 2950 Niles Road, St. Joseph, MI 49085-9659 USA. For information about securing permission to reprint or reproduce a technical presentation, please address inquiries to ASAE. ASAE, 2950 Niles Rd., St. Joseph, MI 49085-9659 USA Voice: 616.429.0300 FAX: 616.429.3852 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thermochemical Conversion of Swine Manure: Temperature and Pressure Responses Bingjun He, Yuanhui Zhang, Gerald L. Riskowski, Ted L. Funk Agricultural Engineering, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 1304 West Pennsylvania Avenue, Urbana, IL 61801, USA Abstract: A bench-scale thermochemical conversion (TCC) processor was developed to study the TCC of swine manure to oil and gases. Theeffects of the process parameters, including temperature, pressure, solidscontent, retention time, and pH, on the conversion of swine manure to oil andgases were examined. In this preliminary study, the ranges of the process parameters were 180-275¡ C, 1.0-6.0 MPa, 20% total solids, 1.0 to 3.0 hours, and pH 6, respectively. The COD of the post-processed water was significantly reduced compared to the untreated slurry. Substantial heat was generated during the process.Preliminary data showed that the TCC process is promising and could be an attractive technology to treat swine manure. Keywords:Thermochemical conversion, swine manure, renewable energy Pork production is one of the most value-added agriculture sectors in the United States. As the swine industry provides more pork products desired by our society, an increasing amount of swine manure is produced. The impact of swine production on the environment has increased concerns of the general public, scientific communities, government agencies, and the pork industry. Millions of dollars are spent annually on swine manure storage, transport, and land application. In addition, odor emission from swine facilities has caused more outcries from the public, and become another major concern of the industry. Swine manure, once regarded as a valuable natural fertilizer, has now become an expensive burden on the pork industry. However, livestock manure is a plentiful source of biomass that has the potential to be converted to renewable energy through biological and/or chemical processes. The thermochemical conversion (TCC) process is a chemical reforming process of organic matter in a heated enclosure with little or no oxygen present. TCC technology was studied using primarily coal, peat, and lignocellulosic materials, such as wood sludge, as feedstock during the 1970's and 1980's, and most of this research focused on the process known as pyrolysis (Buekens and Schoeters, 1980; Hirata, 1985; Overand et al., 1985; Bridgwater, 1994). Pyrolysis requires dry feedstock
[biofuel] Re: road use tax?
How much are you paying foe methanol? 'Contract' price is $0.75 / gal. www.methanex.com, for prices. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I buy my methanol from a racing fuel supplier. They have not brought up the road use tax with me on methanol (I've placed a total of one order so far), but I am guessing that they would if I were to buy any of their fuels that can be used in street machines. I am sure that this is required by law. If their fuel is used in a vehicle on the road, they have to collect the tax. I'm not sure if this is your situation as well. If it is, however, the loophole is that you're using the methanol in a processor, not a vehicle at all. The form that you are signing simply states that the Methanol you are buying will not be put into a fuel tank of a vehicle driven on the road. Any other use of the chemical does not subject it to this tax. I would read the form carefully to make sure that this is the case. If so, however, sign away and use your methanol with a clear conscience. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mark Finewood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I picked up a 55 gallon drum of methanol today. I told them that I would be using it to make biodiesel. The supplier asked me to sign a form that states that the methanol would be used for off-road purposes only or be subject to a road use tax. Has anyone run across this and how do you handle it? I just said that I plan to use the biodiesel for our tractor and possibly home heating. (I didn't mention that a lot will probably find it's way into my F250 as well.) Is there a way that we can pay the road use tax? I read on the biodiesel.org site that the tax is $0.244 per gallon. Thanks, Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If oil analysis wasn't so expensive, it would be a good thing to have a sample checked during the filter change, if someone was interested in going this route. Check local heavy equipment dealers/rental places. The local Cat dealer does oil testing for $15. http://www.kavlico.com/ksensors/oil_sensor.html Or just install a sensor like this and let it monitor for oil breakdown. I'm almost certain that a sensor like this is used on many GM vehicles in the U.S. to indicate the need for an oil change. Anyone know for sure what GM uses? Ed Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
Hrmm, I don't seem to get around to it until ~8,000 miles or so. Seems fine so far and I have 90K on my engine. James Slayden On Sun, 18 Apr 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Any opinions on this? Best Keith From: The Motor Oil Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The Motor Oil Bible Update April 16, 2004 Hello, This message is going out to everyone who ever purchased The Motor Oil Bible or downloaded the free version (with the exception of anyone whoever requested to be removed from my mailing list - I respect everyone's right to opt-out). The Motor Oil Bible is now well over 150 pages and is now completely F,R,E,E (at least the electronic version is). There is no longer a free trial version and a full version. The FULL version is now provided for download at no charge. I feel very strongly that everyone out there needs to read this book as there is much environmental pollution and economic waste occuring as a result of the major oil companies' insistence on perpetuating The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change. So, I am no longer charging for the electonic version of my book. To those of you who paid for the electronic version in the past, I hope you don't feel like you got the short end of the stick. Previous to now, I was not in a financial position to offer the book without charge. Now I am, so that's what I'm doing. The reason that I am emailing you is because many of you have indicated to me in the past that you knew people you thought should read this information. However, many of them might not have been willing to PAY for the information. Now that the book is downloadable without charge, you may have friends or relatives who would be interested in reading the book. The only semi requirement I have is that people wanting to make sure they are downloading the latest edition of the book will want to register for an account on TheMotorOilSite.com discussion board. I do not charge for these memberships either. Technically, to get the book, they don't HAVE to register since anyone is welcome to send the book to a friend as an email attachment or put it up on their website server for download. The only potential issue is that the file may become outdated over time. If they register for an account on TheMotorOilSite.com they can be sure that the file they download is the latest copy available. At any rate, the latest iteration of the book had some revision as of September of 2002 and had technical specification updates as of August of 2003. Hopefully, there will be some more updates coming very soon and all registered members of TheMotorOilSite.com will receive notification when that update occurs. To download the latest version, please go to http://TheMotorOilSite.com and register for an account. Then, please notify anyone you feel might have interest in this material that the book is now available at no cost. People need to know that they are basically being lied to and it is costing them a great deal of time, money and aggrevation. Thank you, Mike Kaufman Motor Oil Bible Author http://Motor-Oil-Bible.com http://TheMotorOilSite.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] one-tank SVO?
Hi Keith, You wrote: Actually I'm not sure they're comparable, your kit and Elbett's. The main cost component of your single-tank kit seems to be the Vormax filter, is that right? Perhaps the Vormax is in itself a better filter, but I don't think that means that Elsbett's filtering is less effective. With Elsbett's filter, you still need to bag filter - while with the Vormax installed, you can pump restuarant oil (WVO) through a 70 micron filter (included in the filtering wand we sell) right into your tank. If you tried this with the Elsbett filter, you'll plug up the (small) filter quickly, since it lacks the pre-filter feature of the Vormax. The Vormax was developed for dinodiesel-fueled big rigs - and we adapted it for WVO purposes - to extend the normal change interval of the (very large) secondary spin-on cartridge. The first stage of the Vormax is a prefilter that forces most crud (food scraps, in our application) and water to drop to the bottom of a large clear Lexan bowl, with a drainvalve that can opened to drain out any visible food bits. Being able to fill directly from 5 gallon jugs of oil from your donor restaurant makes driving on WVO much easier - and means more people will convert their cars as a result - and I speak as someone who spent many hours bag filtering, before I got my first Vormax. It's messy, time-consuming, takes up space, and the polyester felt filterbags don't compost. Elsbett gives you a small 2nd filter with a heating band around it, and leaves the stock filter in place, with a gate valve you can throw if their filter becomes clogged. In our Mercedes singletank installs, and some VW installs, we leave the stock filter in place also, and it becomes the final filter, after the Vormax's initial two-stage filtration. So you have the Vormax pre-filter, then the 10 micron Vormax replacable cartridge (or 2 micron, depending on which Fleetguard or Racor cartridge you opt for) then the stock filter. And the Vormax gets plumbed with coolant to prevent fuel gelling and waxing, and it has a vacuum gauge let you know when the cartridge is starting to get restricted, and the Vormax can be fitted with an optional 120V heater for cold winter areas. And the cartridges are about 4-6 times the size of the Elsbett filter, and can be found on the web for $10 each, and are available at most big truck dealers and a truck stops on the highway. So, yes, I think our filtration is much better in every way. Remember, in Germany, home of the Elsbett, fuels are taxed as they should be everywhere (and aren't in the US) with the result that new Canola at *the supermarket* is about 1/3 the price of diesel at the pump! So running new SVO is the norm in Germany and other European countries that acknowledge that global warming is real (unlike our current US administration with oil men in the #1 and #2 position) and have thus discouraged driving via high fuel taxation. With (affordable) new Canola, you'll do fine with minimal onboard filtration - not so with restuarant fryer oil. As far as the injector mod issue. I've driven my '87 Mercedes 300TD wagon almost 6000 miles on our singletank system - without modified injectors. It still starts immediately, never smokes, and still goes like a bat out of hell. The Bosch shops and local diesel injection shops have all told me that injector coking doesn't happen all at once -it's a gradual process, and will typically manifest as hard starting, smoking, or lack of power. The experience with my Benz, and with my '91 Jetta, running singletank without modified injectors, and with other singletank conversions with stock injectors, leads me to believe that the modified injectos aren't necessary. We have sold several singletank kits with the modified injectors, and I always tell prospective customers that the injectors aren't a bad idea, but that my experience - albeit with only a few thousand miles - is that they'd probably be ok without them, and that at the first sign of hard starting, smoking, or lack of power, they should pull an injector for examination, and if coking is found, we'd exchange them for the modified injectors. We offer the modded injectors on an exchange basis, and you're saying Elsbett now does this too - when I was installing their kits, they sent you injector bits, that you then had to take to a local Bosch shop, along with your injectors, to have the bits swapped out. I'm glad to hear they've eliminated that step. As far as your friend's experience with the ease of installation of his Elsbett kit - he's the exception, rather than the rule. But maybe they've improved the instructions since I've installed one more than a year ago. But the Elsbett system's electric fuel heating is turned off when the coolant reaches operating temps, and this requires a thermoswitch that's installed in the head, and a relay to turn off the heated filter, whereas our Vegtherm inline 12V
Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
James Slayden wrote: Hrmm, I don't seem to get around to it until ~8,000 miles or so. Seems fine so far and I have 90K on my engine. James Slayden I have changed the oil in my 1991 chevrolet corsica every three thousand miles since new. Currently the car has 306,000 miles and still runs like new. Dave Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Re: NOx/Ozone
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:48:49 +0900 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biodiesel] NOx/Ozone Hi hi there, Till now, I've been listening in to the discussion group and learning quite a bit. Thanks to you all. I have also gained quite a database of information related to development of biodiesel in Hong Kong. One thing being considered by Government at the moment is to limit biodiesel to 5 or 10% mixes because of the reported tendancy for biodiesel to increase NOx emissions relatvie to ultra-low sulfur diesel, the standard diesel in Hong Kong. I have also heard/seen evidence that biodiesel from waste restaurant greases and oils has much less a tendancy to increase NOx, and in fact, has been shown to decrease NOx emissions. Furthermore, the main issue of concern is ozone formation, and I have read in numerous reports that biodiesel in general, and biodiesel from waste greases and oils in particular, decreases ozone forming potential of emissions (apart from impact on NOx). Can anyone refer studies/anecdotes that support that: - Biodeisel from waste greases and oils has less tendancy to increase NOx or decreases NOx; and/or - Biodiesel has a tendancy to decrease ozone forming potential of emissions (despite impact on NOx)? Unfortunately, all other benefits of biodiesel are taking back stage in Hong Kong, and NOx and ozone are the focus. We've found that where authorities insist on that focus, it's generally because they're looking for obstacles rather than solutions. No doubt there are exceptions to that but from our previous experience there, I doubt Hong Kong would be one of them. (Do people there still refer to the EPD as the Environment Prevention Department?) The EPD's Mr Mok was quick to seek out objections to biodiesel's benefits rather than considering its potential (to the extent that a lot of people enquired whether he worked for Shell). Of course NOx is the obvious one. Try telling them that NOx is not a problem anyway with biodiesel because there's no sulphur in biodiesel and therefore NOx reduction is a simple matter... and watch them glaze over. I should also note the following: - HK will require that all biodiesel produced meet the most strict standards, specifically EN14214; - In order to achieve this standard using HK's waste greases and oils, very expensive capital equipment will have to be purchased and thus any project will have to be large I don't think so. Small projects using simple equipment are just as capable of making standard-spec or better biodiesel from WVO as large projects are. Large projects have so far built up quite a reputation of causing problems by producing sub-standard biodiesel in both the US and Europe, though the industry folks invariably claim only they can produce quality fuel and homebrewers can't - not so! AFAIK the EN14214 Euro standard has not yet been finalised and what's mostly been said about it so far isn't much more than conjecture. Despite the US EPA's finding of susbstantial equivalence or whatever between soy and other feedstocks, though they only tested soy (SME), probably EN14214 will favour the characteristics of rapeseed (RME) over soy or WVO, and especially WVO with high lard-content (common in Hong Kong I think). Its CFPP (Cold-Filter Plugging Point) and low-temp viscosity considerations will hardly apply to Hong Kong conditions, but that probably won't move the Hong Kong authorities much either. The Europeans are concerned that soy biodiesel (SME) has problems with polymerisation, or at least worse problems than RME does. The rapeseed Iodine Value is 98, soy is 130, so they could have a point. (Rapeseed and Canola are the same.) I think there are also concerns over sunflower oil as a feedstock (IV 125). With WVO it's hard to say what the IV might be, especially if it's been used to cook fish, and hard to say what the CFPP might be too (tallow and lard content). Have you seen what the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers' 2002 World-Wide Fuel Charter has to say about it, and about EN14214? It's here: http://www.oica.net/htdocs/fuel%20quality/WWFC_Dec2002_Brochure.pdf This is also worth a look: Fuel Injection Equipment (FIE) Manufacturers statement on biodiesel (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch): Summary -- html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html Full document -- Acrobat file, 104kb http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf Actually, as far as the World-Wide Fuel Charter is concerned, it's a little hard to see why the (US) Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers and the Engine Manufacturers Association are so concerned, considering that the quality of petro-diesel supplied in the US is some of the worst in the world. I don't think one's seen Detroit squealing too much about that in the past. The Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association is similar - there is no petro-diesel standard in Japan, let alone a biodiesel
Re: [biofuel] Converting Swine Manure to Oil: U of I Makes the Process Faster, Easier
It's been posted before, also the similar project with turkey wastes. Please see comment here re non-sustainability: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/33476/ Best Keith http://www.thepigsite.com/LatestNews/?AREA=LatestNewsDisplay=7278 Tuesday, April 13, 2004 Converting Swine Manure to Oil: U of I Makes the Process Faster, Easier URBANA - Swine manure might just be the surprising key to reducing crude oil imports and creating a new industry in the United States. Need a Product or service? snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] one-tank SVO?
I think you're all over the place Craig. Vormax Vormax, well, whatever - but previously you guys were saying bag filtering's so easy and untroublesome and making biodiesel's so dangerous and difficult. singletank conversions with stock injectors, leads me to believe that the modified injectos aren't necessary. ... Which may be one reason our singletank kit works without modified injectors, while Elsbett needs the modified injectors. I said Elsbett doesn't supply them for all conversions. You've done a few thousand miles without them, but you'd set that against Elsbett's experience at the peak of diesel technology over the last three decades? Well, if you must, but it sounds like what it is: sales talk. When you have a whole bunch of installations on various motors running in various conditions and they've all done half a million miles or so without modified injectors it might be more persuasive. (And interestingly, Elsbett strongly discourages biodiesel, calling it corrosive. I've always assumed that this is because they see biodiesel as the competiton - not my view.) The amount of start-stop fuel We've discussed this here before, you and me, you've forgotten? Keith, We (Neoteric) don't recommend singletank for extreme cold weather use - nor does Elsbett. It can be done, though, several ways. Elsbett recommends blending in some diesel in the winter A less preferred option, as I said. (and not biodiesel, which they strongly recommend against, calling it corrosive - but I think they see biodiesel as the competition, and thus take a strong stand against it. From correspondence with Klaus Elsbett: after the Elsbett modification, the engine of course still is able to run on petrol diesel, biodiesel and any blends, with the but one exception that biodiesel is a very aggressive matter, and if the engine systems could not stand it before the modification, they will not be better up afterwards, as far as biodiesel is concerned. Do you mean the way biodiesel attacks rubber parts in the fuel system? Yes, exactly Your reply (18 Oct 03): Thanks for the clarification on Elsbett's stance on biodiesel and WVO. Their traveling senior engineer, who leads their workshops around the world, Alexander Noack, is the one who used the word corrosive. I'm glad Klaus is more relaxed about it. So are you still going to continue saying Elsbett strongly discourages biodiesel? Having dealt with Elsbett in the past... A year ago... I'm glad to hear they've eliminated that step... But maybe they've improved the instructions since I've installed one... You insist on selling your newby system by comparison with Elsbett's system, but your information on them is dubious and out of date - the best you can do is to get updated information from me, here? You've often attacked them, in a lot of forums - it's overcomplicated, it's too difficult to install, their service is bad, etc etc etc, but it seems to be only you that says so (and a couple of others, quoting you), and your view is not disinterested. Why did you snip this bit? The link Rachel posted to the Elsbett workshop is interesting, worth a read: yes. We had a training/install workshop with them in March. Here's a link to the review... http://www.biofuels.coop/blog/archives/66.html I'll say this again: comparison. By all mean promote your system, but I don't think your citing its purported advantages over the Elsbett system has much or any substance. It reminds me a bit of the SVO vs biodiesel non-argument. Why not just promote it on its own merits? Best Keith Hi Keith, You wrote: Actually I'm not sure they're comparable, your kit and Elbett's. The main cost component of your single-tank kit seems to be the Vormax filter, is that right? Perhaps the Vormax is in itself a better filter, but I don't think that means that Elsbett's filtering is less effective. With Elsbett's filter, you still need to bag filter - while with the Vormax installed, you can pump restuarant oil (WVO) through a 70 micron filter (included in the filtering wand we sell) right into your tank. If you tried this with the Elsbett filter, you'll plug up the (small) filter quickly, since it lacks the pre-filter feature of the Vormax. The Vormax was developed for dinodiesel-fueled big rigs - and we adapted it for WVO purposes - to extend the normal change interval of the (very large) secondary spin-on cartridge. The first stage of the Vormax is a prefilter that forces most crud (food scraps, in our application) and water to drop to the bottom of a large clear Lexan bowl, with a drainvalve that can opened to drain out any visible food bits. Being able to fill directly from 5 gallon jugs of oil from your donor restaurant makes driving on WVO much easier - and means more people will convert their cars as a result - and I speak as someone who spent many hours bag filtering, before I got my first Vormax. It's messy,
Re: [biofuel] one-tank SVO?
Keith, You can dismiss the advantages of our filtration if you like, but ask someone who used to bag filter WVO who now can pump right into the tank, with a Vormax installed, , and they'll tell they've saved a buncha time and hassle. As far as how many miles we've got on our singletank system versus Elsbett - I won't argue with you - they've got more. For the nervous person, Elsbett may provide more peace of mind. But we've doing everything they're doing, if one opts for the modified injectors, and with better filtration and simpler electronics - and better filtration and simpler electronics make me *less nervous.* And it's not just about making a sales pitch at every opportunity, Keith - I think that a lot more people will get into driving on renewables if they're presented with a way to do it that's cheaper than buying biodiesel, less time consuming than making it, and doesn't compel bag filtering of WVO. I'm not anti-biodiesel, or anti-Elsbett. Craig On Apr 19, 2004, at 12:04 AM, Keith Addison wrote: I think you're all over the place Craig. Vormax Vormax, well, whatever - but previously you guys were saying bag filtering's so easy and untroublesome and making biodiesel's so dangerous and difficult. singletank conversions with stock injectors, leads me to believe that the modified injectos aren't necessary. ... Which may be one reason our singletank kit works without modified injectors, while Elsbett needs the modified injectors. I said Elsbett doesn't supply them for all conversions. You've done a few thousand miles without them, but you'd set that against Elsbett's experience at the peak of diesel technology over the last three decades? Well, if you must, but it sounds like what it is: sales talk. When you have a whole bunch of installations on various motors running in various conditions and they've all done half a million miles or so without modified injectors it might be more persuasive. (And interestingly, Elsbett strongly discourages biodiesel, calling it corrosive. I've always assumed that this is because they see biodiesel as the competiton - not my view.) The amount of start-stop fuel We've discussed this here before, you and me, you've forgotten? Keith, We (Neoteric) don't recommend singletank for extreme cold weather use - nor does Elsbett. It can be done, though, several ways. Elsbett recommends blending in some diesel in the winter A less preferred option, as I said. (and not biodiesel, which they strongly recommend against, calling it corrosive - but I think they see biodiesel as the competition, and thus take a strong stand against it. From correspondence with Klaus Elsbett: after the Elsbett modification, the engine of course still is able to run on petrol diesel, biodiesel and any blends, with the but one exception that biodiesel is a very aggressive matter, and if the engine systems could not stand it before the modification, they will not be better up afterwards, as far as biodiesel is concerned. Do you mean the way biodiesel attacks rubber parts in the fuel system? Yes, exactly Your reply (18 Oct 03): Thanks for the clarification on Elsbett's stance on biodiesel and WVO. Their traveling senior engineer, who leads their workshops around the world, Alexander Noack, is the one who used the word corrosive. I'm glad Klaus is more relaxed about it. So are you still going to continue saying Elsbett strongly discourages biodiesel? Having dealt with Elsbett in the past... A year ago... I'm glad to hear they've eliminated that step... But maybe they've improved the instructions since I've installed one... You insist on selling your newby system by comparison with Elsbett's system, but your information on them is dubious and out of date - the best you can do is to get updated information from me, here? You've often attacked them, in a lot of forums - it's overcomplicated, it's too difficult to install, their service is bad, etc etc etc, but it seems to be only you that says so (and a couple of others, quoting you), and your view is not disinterested. Why did you snip this bit? The link Rachel posted to the Elsbett workshop is interesting, worth a read: yes. We had a training/install workshop with them in March. Here's a link to the review... http://www.biofuels.coop/blog/archives/66.html I'll say this again: Ê comparison. By all mean promote your system, but I don't think your Ê citing its purported advantages over the Elsbett system has much or Ê any substance. It reminds me a bit of the SVO vs biodiesel Ê non-argument. Why not just promote it on its own merits? Best Keith Hi Keith, You wrote: Ê Actually I'm not sure they're comparable, your kit and Elbett's. The Ê main cost component of your single-tank kit seems to be the
Re: [biofuel] one-tank SVO?
A fellow from Elsbett passed through our neck of the woods a month or so ago. People were impressed. We've done a bunch of two tank conversions, but people were loving Elsbett's system. I was not in town, but Rachel wrote an enthusiastic endorsement of Elsbett which I published in my blog. Check out http://www.biofuels.coop/blog/archives/66.html Elsbett Workshop On Apr 16, 2004, at 11:34 AM, John Blackmer wrote: does anyone know anything about www.elsbett.com ? it claims that a one-tank SVO is posssible with a few small modifications to the engine: glow plugs, 1 micron filter, etc. certainly this could only work with an oil that doesn't solidify in the tank, i assume, but there's a fellow in berkeley that claims to have done this for 8 months with straight olive oil. I thought that this was simply mechanically impossible? any caveats/opinions? thanks, John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Lyle Estill V.P., Stuff Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol supplies
Thanks Tod i will try some fuel companys for the methanol the koh was easy bq sell it as drain unblocker. 25ltr was just the amount i would like to handle first time round dont realy have the space for a 55gal drum i will probably do a test batch of more like a liter to start with. Cheers Myke Michael, Nothing you'll work with is an extreme chemical and there should be no problem acquiring the components. MeOH is a fuel. Bulk fuel distributors should easily be able to get you 20 liter pails or more. KOH can be procured in kg lots from soap making suppliers. NaOH should be available in nearly any hardware store. As for your test batch size? Are you saying that 25 liters is the size of your first test or that this is the first 25 liter batch you're running? If you're stating the former, you would serve yourself well in dropping the volume down to 4% of that. Mistakes are no fun when they occur, especially at such a volume on the first go you have at it. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: michael hicks To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 6:49 AM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol supplies Hi all. I need to purchase some methanol for my first test batch 25ltr would be nice but am having proplems with chemical companys not dealing with jo public. Anyone know of eny freindly suppliers in the Bristol U.K. area Cheers Myke - Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links - Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
James Slayden wrote: Hrmm, I don't seem to get around to it until ~8,000 miles or so. Seems fine so far and I have 90K on my engine. James Slayden I have changed the oil in my 1991 chevrolet corsica every three thousand miles since new. Currently the car has 306,000 miles and still runs like new. Dave Thanks for all the replies, folks, but has anyone read the thing? To download the latest version, please go to http://TheMotorOilSite.com and register for an account. I don't think there's any particular hassle or peril in registering. (Just kill the cookies afterwards, as ever.) I guess regular 3,000-mile oil changes surely won't do the motor any harm. Kirk, your friend's 60,000 miles (without checks?) probably got her the predictable results. I think you have a good point about the additives expiring. Which additives, I wonder? Robert, thanks for the info about the RR Merlins (5,000 hp!!!) and the 12-cyl Jags. You also say the computers and stronger sparks (for spark-ignition) are kinder to the engines, but newer engines run hotter than the old-fangled ones of 25 years ago or so did. As demands of fuel economy and federal emission standards began to affect auto manufacturers, they had to make smaller, harder-working engines that operated at higher temperatures than the older engines, especially with the introduction of catalytic-converter systems in the mid-1970s. Subsequently, motor oil sometimes flashed in the crankcases of vehicles, and in the early 1980s, an anti-flashing agent was added to motor oils for safety reasons. This raised the oil's combustion temperature significantly. (Not from the Motor Oil Bible.) Is that right? If so I don't know how relevant the example of the 12-cyl Jags might be. Seems to me it'd be worthwhile trying to get a handle on this. The Motor Oil Bible author sees a large-scale and widespread waste of fossil fuel in the 3,000-mile requirement. If that's the case, it perhaps behooves us to take it onboard and act accordingly. Cheap and available oil analysis would make life easier, but changing the oil according to the analysis would perhaps save a lot of oil (as per James's 8,000 miles), even if oil changes are cheaper. Quite a lot of people are prepared to pay more for biodiesel for similar reasons. Sean Ihndris posted this at the vegoil-diesel list the other day: My interest in vegi-fuel led me to serch for vegi motor oil, this is what I found: www.sterlinggrade.com www.renewablelube.com Seancrete. Any reports on these oils? If it were feasible to change oil every 25,000 miles or whatever and use this stuff, that would be progress, IMHO. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] one-tank SVO?
Craig Keith, You can dismiss the advantages of our filtration if you like, I didn't dismiss it, I dismissed the comparison. but ask someone who used to bag filter WVO who now can pump right into the tank, with a Vormax installed, , and they'll tell they've saved a buncha time and hassle. As far as how many miles we've got on our singletank system versus Elsbett - I won't argue with you - they've got more. For the nervous person, Elsbett may provide more peace of mind. But we've doing everything they're doing, if one opts for the modified injectors, and with better filtration and simpler electronics - and better filtration and simpler electronics make me *less nervous.* And it's not just about making a sales pitch at every opportunity, Keith - I think that a lot more people will get into driving on renewables if they're presented with a way to do it that's cheaper than buying biodiesel, less time consuming than making it, and doesn't compel bag filtering of WVO. In which case sell your system on its merits, not by means of iffy comparisons that aren't even up to date. I'm not anti-biodiesel, or anti-Elsbett. As above, but the last bit doesn't jell, you've certainly been anti-Elsbett, it's widely on record. You've skipped over quite a few points in this discussion Craig, you haven't made your case. If you're not anti-Elsbett, good, maybe you've changed your mind. If your system is all you crack it up to be then it should be sufficient for you to be pro-Neoteric. Don't you think promoting it at Elsbett's expense is perhaps protesting too loudly? Do you promote Neoteric's two-tank kit as better than Greasel? Ed Beggs has had his arguments with Charlie Anderson, but I've never seen it promoted as better than Greasel. But every time that I know of that you've pushed the single-tank kit it's been better than Elsbett. Including this time, above. It lacks substance, and I don't think it's fair enough. Please don't do it again here. Best Keith Craig On Apr 19, 2004, at 12:04 AM, Keith Addison wrote: I think you're all over the place Craig. Vormax Vormax, well, whatever - but previously you guys were saying bag filtering's so easy and untroublesome and making biodiesel's so dangerous and difficult. singletank conversions with stock injectors, leads me to believe that the modified injectos aren't necessary. ... Which may be one reason our singletank kit works without modified injectors, while Elsbett needs the modified injectors. I said Elsbett doesn't supply them for all conversions. You've done a few thousand miles without them, but you'd set that against Elsbett's experience at the peak of diesel technology over the last three decades? Well, if you must, but it sounds like what it is: sales talk. When you have a whole bunch of installations on various motors running in various conditions and they've all done half a million miles or so without modified injectors it might be more persuasive. (And interestingly, Elsbett strongly discourages biodiesel, calling it corrosive. I've always assumed that this is because they see biodiesel as the competiton - not my view.) The amount of start-stop fuel We've discussed this here before, you and me, you've forgotten? Keith, We (Neoteric) don't recommend singletank for extreme cold weather use - nor does Elsbett. It can be done, though, several ways. Elsbett recommends blending in some diesel in the winter A less preferred option, as I said. (and not biodiesel, which they strongly recommend against, calling it corrosive - but I think they see biodiesel as the competition, and thus take a strong stand against it. From correspondence with Klaus Elsbett: after the Elsbett modification, the engine of course still is able to run on petrol diesel, biodiesel and any blends, with the but one exception that biodiesel is a very aggressive matter, and if the engine systems could not stand it before the modification, they will not be better up afterwards, as far as biodiesel is concerned. Do you mean the way biodiesel attacks rubber parts in the fuel system? Yes, exactly Your reply (18 Oct 03): Thanks for the clarification on Elsbett's stance on biodiesel and WVO. Their traveling senior engineer, who leads their workshops around the world, Alexander Noack, is the one who used the word corrosive. I'm glad Klaus is more relaxed about it. So are you still going to continue saying Elsbett strongly discourages biodiesel? Having dealt with Elsbett in the past... A year ago... I'm glad to hear they've eliminated that step... But maybe they've improved the instructions since I've installed one... You insist on selling your newby system by comparison with Elsbett's system, but your information on them is dubious and out of date - the
[biofuel] Re: road use tax?
Local price right now is $98 for 54 gallons. The local supplier is at least the third in the line of adding their cut to the price. I could get a little cheaper in Ohio, but then would have to either drive there to pick it up or pay freight costs ($122 for 2 barrels). Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, riored96 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much are you paying foe methanol? 'Contract' price is $0.75 / gal. www.methanex.com, for prices. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I buy my methanol from a racing fuel supplier. They have not brought up the road use tax with me on methanol (I've placed a total of one order so far), but I am guessing that they would if I were to buy any of their fuels that can be used in street machines. I am sure that this is required by law. If their fuel is used in a vehicle on the road, they have to collect the tax. I'm not sure if this is your situation as well. If it is, however, the loophole is that you're using the methanol in a processor, not a vehicle at all. The form that you are signing simply states that the Methanol you are buying will not be put into a fuel tank of a vehicle driven on the road. Any other use of the chemical does not subject it to this tax. I would read the form carefully to make sure that this is the case. If so, however, sign away and use your methanol with a clear conscience. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mark Finewood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I picked up a 55 gallon drum of methanol today. I told them that I would be using it to make biodiesel. The supplier asked me to sign a form that states that the methanol would be used for off-road purposes only or be subject to a road use tax. Has anyone run across this and how do you handle it? I just said that I plan to use the biodiesel for our tractor and possibly home heating. (I didn't mention that a lot will probably find it's way into my F250 as well.) Is there a way that we can pay the road use tax? I read on the biodiesel.org site that the tax is $0.244 per gallon. Thanks, Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: NOx, injection timing and injection/combustion sensors
I wonder how lovering the compression ratio of the engine will affect the emission of NOx. As far as I know a compression ratio of 15-17 is the most efficient for a diesel engine. The reason for using the 20- 24 compression used in cars today is to make them easier starters. I guess a lot of engines could be run more effectively, at least those engines that doesnt have to do cold-starting. Is this wrong? (But then, should the timing be altered, and how much? John, DK --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Darren Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand that the increase in NOx when burning biodiesel/SVO is thought to be largely due to the compressibility of the fuel and an effective advancement of the timing as the fatty fuels will not compress as much as diesel fuel. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Conversion Tables from/to metric to US or Imperial
I found a site like that too... google.com !! you'd be surprised what google can convert for you. here are some examples to put into that 'search' box you probably use already: 263 miles to kilometers 15 km/h to mph 173 cm to leagues 22/7 (getting hungry?) 2 oz to cc 100 c to f 100 c to k 0 k to f 0 k to c (523+17)^2/(sqrt(-37)*723) 300 degrees to radians 32 nanometers to yards -detrick biobenz wrote: Found this site where you can convert anything from weights and measures to liquids or whatever ect... should one need to :) http://www.teaching-english-in-japan.net/conversion/celsius It is interactive as well, so you can customize it as you go. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
I purchased a Mercedes Benz 1995 E300 diesel with slightly over 100,000 miles on the odometer. Mercedes dealer impeccably maintained it prior to my purchase as it was under a Starmark warrantee. I'm not sure if it used synthetic oil prior to my purchase, but I immediately changed it to Mobil 1 15W-50. I then performed professional oil analysis at several change intervals, including 4,000, 6,000, 8,000 and 10,000 miles, numerous times. My lab reports suggested this motor was well protected even at the 10,000-mile change intervals using Mobil 1. Soot levels were under 2%, all other data within expected values. I decided on 7,500-mile change intervals, based mostly on the ease of remembering the odometer numbers, and my comfort level knowing I was WELL within the oil's ability to protect this engine. I followed this regime for approximately 100,000 miles. With approximately 200,000 miles on the odometer, I installed a Frantz Bypass Filter System. There are others available, but this one suited my needs, and I remembered the name from my teenage years. I have had numerous professional lab analysis performed on the oil at many different bypass filter change intervals since. All results have come back near identical. The results have shown soot levels at BELOW .01%. The same result I would expect with new, unused oil. I now have not completely changed the oil in over 104,000 miles. I have not completely changed all 7.5 quarts of oil in now over 104,000 miles, but, every 2,500 miles, I change the oil bypass oil filter, which requires the replenishment of 1 fresh quart of oil. That equates to adding 41 quarts for the 104,000-miles covered thus far. This is a conservative change interval. I have extended the interval to 4,000 miles, and saw no difference in oil quality upon analysis, but I have a high comfort level at 2500-mile intervals. I am not doing this for economic reasons, but, for the same miles covered, that would equate to around 104 quarts used at 7,500-mile change intervals of 7.5 quarts per change. At least I'm helping conserve. I have used Mobil 1 15w-50 exclusively. I have oil in the engine that is as new at ALL times. Changing the bypass filter requires around 15 minutes and costs ~50 cents. I do it in my parking lot, at my office. I could be wearing a suit. I change the factory installed oil filter every 15,000 miles. The addition of the fresh quart every 2,500 miles seems to be more than sufficient to maintain and replace any additives depleted. The oil in this car is ALWAYS as new. I have an oil analysis every 10,000 miles and have never had a report differ from the first. Soot has always been under 1/10th of 1%. The oil still has a black appearance, even though it has been filtered to sub micron levels. I purchased a new stock oil filter canister cover and drilled, tapped, and epoxy a fitting for the supply, the epoxy was overkill. I drilled, tapped, and epoxy (overkill) a return, directly into the valve cover, pointing at the timing chain. I figured clean oil pouring onto the timing chain was better than pouring it into the bottom pan. I mounted the filter high on the firewall that separates the battery from the engine, well above the exhaust manifold; there is plenty of room there on my model year. All hoses are up top allowing easy inspection. If you want more info on motor oil filtration, check out this series of articles written by a Paper Towel filter skeptic who set out to test the things. http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/1998-October/004986.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/1998-October/005008.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/1998-October/005153.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/1998-October/005441.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/1998-October/005728.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/1998-November/006124.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/1998-November/006591.html The same chap did an interesting series on synthetic oil (sorry, I could never find part 9) http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-April/019484.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-April/019677.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-April/019728.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-April/019770.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-April/020191.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-May/020561.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-June/020980.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-October/024209.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-November/025830.html http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/trawler-world-list/2000-December/026547.html _ I did not submit the
[biofuel] Re: The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
She was too busy although she finds time now. All she did was add a quart when it got low. No filter change, nothing.Ufda Kirk --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have two pictures painted for us. One by you, of a woman who just let things go and it didn't work out. Robert tells us the story of a man who carefully filtered and stayed on top of the oil that was in there. That seemed to work out for him. So, I wonder if the answer is, maybe, that it can be done, but is better done by someone who does a lot of maintenance on the oil he puts back in the engine. The local vet ran her SUV for 60,000 without a change and lost the engine. When the mechanic drained the crankcase it came out like heavy gear oil-- very viscous. Kirk --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any opinions on this? Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
I have heard that metal gets suspended in the oil. That is why EPA doesn't want salvaged lubricating oil burned in engines or stoves. An electrostatic filter might remove it, be worth trying. Used lubricating oil looks like it has quite a potential for pollution. Kirk --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Slayden wrote: Hrmm, I don't seem to get around to it until ~8,000 miles or so. Seems fine so far and I have 90K on my engine. James Slayden I have changed the oil in my 1991 chevrolet corsica every three thousand miles since new. Currently the car has 306,000 miles and still runs like new. Dave Thanks for all the replies, folks, but has anyone read the thing? To download the latest version, please go to http://TheMotorOilSite.com and register for an account. I don't think there's any particular hassle or peril in registering. (Just kill the cookies afterwards, as ever.) I guess regular 3,000-mile oil changes surely won't do the motor any harm. Kirk, your friend's 60,000 miles (without checks?) probably got her the predictable results. I think you have a good point about the additives expiring. Which additives, I wonder? Robert, thanks for the info about the RR Merlins (5,000 hp!!!) and the 12-cyl Jags. You also say the computers and stronger sparks (for spark-ignition) are kinder to the engines, but newer engines run hotter than the old-fangled ones of 25 years ago or so did. As demands of fuel economy and federal emission standards began to affect auto manufacturers, they had to make smaller, harder-working engines that operated at higher temperatures than the older engines, especially with the introduction of catalytic-converter systems in the mid-1970s. Subsequently, motor oil sometimes flashed in the crankcases of vehicles, and in the early 1980s, an anti-flashing agent was added to motor oils for safety reasons. This raised the oil's combustion temperature significantly. (Not from the Motor Oil Bible.) Is that right? If so I don't know how relevant the example of the 12-cyl Jags might be. Seems to me it'd be worthwhile trying to get a handle on this. The Motor Oil Bible author sees a large-scale and widespread waste of fossil fuel in the 3,000-mile requirement. If that's the case, it perhaps behooves us to take it onboard and act accordingly. Cheap and available oil analysis would make life easier, but changing the oil according to the analysis would perhaps save a lot of oil (as per James's 8,000 miles), even if oil changes are cheaper. Quite a lot of people are prepared to pay more for biodiesel for similar reasons. Sean Ihndris posted this at the vegoil-diesel list the other day: My interest in vegi-fuel led me to serch for vegi motor oil, this is what I found: www.sterlinggrade.com www.renewablelube.com Seancrete. Any reports on these oils? If it were feasible to change oil every 25,000 miles or whatever and use this stuff, that would be progress, IMHO. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: road use tax?
I would spin it this way: I am using methanol to make biodiesel. Once I have made biodiesel, the methanol will be consumed. I will not be using methanol for on- road purposes - it no longer exists, no methanol will be going into my gas tank. I will be using biodiesel. Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mark Finewood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I picked up a 55 gallon drum of methanol today. I told them that I would be using it to make biodiesel. The supplier asked me to sign a form that states that the methanol would be used for off-road purposes only or be subject to a road use tax. Has anyone run across this and how do you handle it? I just said that I plan to use the biodiesel for our tractor and possibly home heating. (I didn't mention that a lot will probably find it's way into my F250 as well.) Is there a way that we can pay the road use tax? I read on the biodiesel.org site that the tax is $0.244 per gallon. Thanks, Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nwafor - benefits of preheating SVO on DI engines...
FYI Renewable Energy Volume 28, Issue 2 , February 2003, Pages 171-181 doi:10.1016/S0960-1481(02)00032-0ÊCite or link using doi Ê Copyright © 2003 Elsevier Science Ltd. All rights reserved. The effect of elevated fuel inlet temperature on performance of diesel engine running on neat vegetable oil at constant speed conditions O. M. I. Nwafor Department of Mechanical Engineering, Federal University of Technology, Owerri, Imo State, Nigeria Received 5 February 2002;Ê accepted 5 February 2002.Ê Available online 9 September 2002. Abstract The concept that engine design is all important in the use of vegetable oils as a diesel fuel has been pointed out by many researchers. One hundred percent of vegetable oil can be used safely in an indirect injection engine, but not in a direct injection engine due to the high degree of atomization required for this type. This problem is related to increasing droplet size on injection into the cylinder that results in poor combustion. This in turn, causes the formation of deposits in the combustion chamber, together with oil dilution due to introduction of unburnt fuel into the crankcase. The objective of this work was to evaluate the effect of increasing fuel inlet temperature on viscosity and performance of a single cylinder, unmodified diesel engine. The overall results showed that fuel heating increased peak cylinder pressure and was also beneficial at low speed and under part-load operation. The high combustion temperature at high engine speed becomes the dominant factor, making both heated and unheated fuel to acquire the same temperature before fuel injection. Author Keywords: Fuel inlet temperature; Pressure crankangle and heat release diagrams; Brake specific fuel consumption; Brake thermal efficiency; Mechanical efficiency and hydrocarbon emissions Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
Good info, Ron, very interesting! Now I'm going to read it all again. Thanks very much. Best wishes Keith I purchased a Mercedes Benz 1995 E300 diesel with slightly over 100,000 miles on the odometer. Mercedes dealer impeccably maintained it prior to my purchase as it was under a Starmark warrantee. I'm not sure if it used synthetic oil prior to my purchase, but I immediately changed it to Mobil 1 15W-50. I then performed professional oil analysis at several change intervals, including 4,000, 6,000, 8,000 and 10,000 miles, numerous times. My lab reports suggested this motor was well protected even at the 10,000-mile change intervals using Mobil 1. Soot levels were under 2%, all other data within expected values. snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] I thought better mileage didn't sell and wasn't worth the capital investment?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=1509ncid=1505e=4u=/afp/20040419/tc_afp/us_auto_collaboration_040419210545 Story about Ford and GM collaborating on this expensive transmission project. Allegedly, part of the rationale for this project is a 4% or so mileage improvement. Ok, so that's probably only a portion of the reason, and the fact is that good transmission technology is important to the long term excellence of a car (IMO). But this story just seemed a bit odd to me, not only for the collaboration (a sign of a belt-tightening in Detroit?) but also for the mileage rationale, and the amounts of money spent, allegedly, in part, to get modest mileage improvements. Surely they realize that a 4% mileage improvement is a very modest gain compared to improvements that could be also gotten in other areas, such as regen braking, better diesel technology, battery propulsion in BEVs and PIHEVs? GM, Ford announce next phase of joint transmission project DETROIT, United States (AFP) - General Motors Corp. and the Ford Motor Company said they plan to make 720 million dollars in capital investments to manufacture a jointly developed transmission in a first-of-its-kind partnership. The two largest US automakers, and arch-rivals, tentatively agreed to collaborate on the six-speed transmission in October 2002. It is expected to go into production in 2006. GM will spend 350 million dollars to upgrade its Warren, Michigan, plant to make the transmission. The Ford Motor Co. has earmarked 370 million dollars to outfit two plants in Michigan and Ohio for the same purpose. The automakers said the new 6-speed will be used in front-wheel drive and all-wheel drive passenger cars and sport-utility vehicles, and should offer up to four-percent improvement in fuel economy over traditional 4-speed automatic transmissions, the automakers said. By collaborating on the development process, the companies have saved millions of dollars and shaved several months off the time needed to bring it to market, according to a GM spokesman, who put the engineering cost of the project at about one billion dollars. The automakers insisted that the feel and performance of their respective vehicles would still be distinct because the transmissions will be mated to different engines. We are rivals, but on this technology it really makes sense to work together, said Dave Szczupak, vice president of Ford's Powertrain Operations. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
