[Biofuel] Feasibility of flow production . . .
Good morning!!! Just a thought - seeing as how I cannot find, anywhere, the possibility / feasibility of flow production as apposed to bacth production. Is this even possible?? Am I using alot of brain power pondering the impossible?? Is there any way to automate this process so that it's continuous?? Greetings from Holland!!! Arden ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
Hi Rich The use of compostingas the pre treatmenthave several disadvantages.Instead ofselective removal of lignin the hemicelluose and cellulose are significantly lost as well as the long processing time , the need for mixed inoculations and also as the problem of contamination.Surley yet this method can be apropriate for rural areas sdPannirselvam/18/05, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I am looking at the second chapter of Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel -Raw materials chapter at http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh2.html#2_1.At the Crop Residue part, it says: The backbone of sugar and starch crops -- the stalks and leaves -- is composed mainly of cellulose. The individual six-carbon sugar units in cellulose are linked together in extremely long chains by a stronger chemical bond than exists in starch. As with starch, cellulose must be broken down into sugar units before it can be used by yeast to make ethanol. However, the breaking of the cellulose bonds is much more complex and costly than the breaking of the starch bonds. Breaking the cellulose into individual sugar units is complicated by the presence of lignin, a complex compound surrounding cellulose, which is even more resistant than cellulose to enzymatic or acidic pretreatment. Because of the high cost of converting liquefied cellulose into fermentable sugars, agricultural residues (as well as other crops having a high percentage of cellulose) are not yet a practical feedstock source for small ethanol plants. Current research may result in feasible cellulosic conversion processes in the future.I am alsolooking at Stu Campbell's book LET IT ROT!The gardener's guide to composting, Revised edition.My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part ofthe ethanol creation process? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
[Biofuel] deacidification
Hi KeithThis is probably the best stuff avalable in my small town, as it is from a food shop renound for quality food. Yes I did mean deacidification as per JTF site.I have 80 litres in 4 drums, I took three samples heated them to test for water and carried out the test three times I even tried different isoprpyl as some of what I had was quite old, but still the same result. I then tested some oil from a friends home frier and found it to be around 3.5grpl, them a further test on brand new SVO and only 1 drop caused a change to pink?Given that my testing is accurate should I persisit with single stage or try deacidification?The only 2 things that I question of my testing is the 1/1000 mixture was cold, although the test was carried out with the beaker standing in warm water and the phenolphalein was made up with Ethanol?Your thoughts would be appreciatedCheersIan ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] Questions on drying Ethanol
Hi Tom As significant equal quantity of CO2 is produzido along with bioethanol , which can be very well utized to regenerate the the used zeolites to replace Nitrogen gas sd Pannirselvam P.V On 8/19/05, Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I´m trying to figure my local costs for ethanol to try some batches in BioD from waste oil. Ethanol 100% is quite expense, 95 % a bit less and 70% least costly. I have a supplier of 3A molecular sieve at about US $40 per kilogram. I was planning on starting with the 95% and running it through a column filled with about 250 grams of the 3A sieve. I generate my own electricity. Though it is a cost, I have some excess capacity. I alsohave a muffle furnace that can get at least to 550 C. The last time I worked with zeolites and molecular sieves I had access to nitrogen gas to pump through to regenerate the columns to remove bound water. I no longer have that nitrogen gas.Is it possible to regenerate the 3A mole sieve without a blanketing gas? I may be able to pump air through the column. Does my procedure seem right for removing the water from 95% ethanol? Would the same procedure work with the 70% ethanol? Thanks, Tom Irwin ___Biofuel mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng
HI Without the colaborative information exchange and dadta base information on biofuel both chemical and bioenginerring people are wasting the money in research not only in USA , but also in the developing country too as an academic curiosity to make patent and publish papers .Hence Mari the e mail has some fact for all the members to think about . Any research need sound chemical logic as well as economical objetive . Ethanol via biochemical route compared chemical syntysis seem to be very practical one . sd PannirselvamOn 8/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:HELP!How can I respond to the negative email below? It's from a chemical engineer friend researching ethanol from cellulose. Isent him some info from this list to help his research, and wassurprised by the anger. Anyone have specific things I can say inresponse?The email: Hi MarilynThose guys are out in left field. From my perspective -- havingfollowed and evaluated various biomass gasification processes(technology and economics) for 27 years -- is that theBioengineering Resources guys are opportunistic promoters -- looking for suckers (e.g., U.S. DOE or some naive investors withmoney to waste). The technology is neither prove noreconomical. And who needs more vinegar (dilute acetic acid).Fermentation of synthesis gas to acetic acid is nonsense. Producing synthesis gas from biomass is itself unproven at anysignificant scale (not even in a decent pilot plant) -- and if it couldbe achieved, would be very expensive relative to other options forproducing synthesis gas. FYI -- Synthesis gas is a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which can be reacted overvarious catalysts at elevated temperatures to produce manydifferent products -- such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, andvarious oxygenated organic compounds. The synthesis gas first has to be purified (made extremely clean), and the H2/CO ratioalso has to be adjusted for the specific application. After thesynthesis, further processing is usually required. Most of these assorted biomass energy promoters (and I have seen many come and go over 27 years) don't understandchemical engineering, process economics, resourceavailability/supply/transportation economics, etc., etc. Yet everyevery 5-10 years a new generation of biomass advocates and promoters emerge (or are otherwise born into the light) whodon't know their asses from first base -- but think that biomasswill save the world -- and so promote all kinds of technicallydumb and uneconomical ideas -- and make life miserable for the people who are doing reasonable work. They all stroke eachother and keep each other going and feeling self-righteous.This whole business is too complicated and emotion-ridden forthe biomass zealots (and apparently for me too) for me to begin discussing the many dimensions of it in an e-mail.I personally favor the idea of exploiting biomass (intelligently) asa renewable energy resource -- and think that we can be utilizingit. However, a lot has to change (mostly politically, socially, economically, educationally, etc.) for that to ever happen. Thecause is not helped by promoters of dumb ideas.___Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/-- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
[Biofuel] Ethanol
I am new to the list and one reason for joining is to find out if there is anyplace in northeast Ohio where I can buy ethanol.Since most cars on the road can use at least E10 blendany help would be appreciated. I am looking for something I can do immediately in addition to driving more carefully to reduceour oil addiction. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
[Biofuel] [Fwd: Economist make sense (except for Krugman)]
My sister, the stockbroker, sent this message to me. I thought I'd post it here for comment. http://www.freakonomics.com/blog.php Sunday, August 21, 2005 Peak Oil: Welcome to the media's new version of shark attacks The cover story http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/magazine/21OIL.htmlof the New York Times Sunday Magazine written by Peter Maass is about Peak Oil. The idea behind peak oil is that the world has been on a path of increasing oil production for many years, and now we are about to peak and go into a situation where there are dwindling reserves, leading to triple-digit prices for a barrel of oil, an unparalleled worldwide depression, and as one web page http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/puts it, Civilization as we know it is coming to an end soon. One might think that doomsday proponents would be chastened by the long history of people of their ilk being wrong: Nostradamus, Malthus, Paul Ehrlich, etc. Clearly they are not. What most of these doomsday scenarios have gotten wrong is the fundamental idea of economics: people respond to incentives. If the price of a good goes up, people demand less of it, the companies that make it figure out how to make more of it, and everyone tries to figure out how to produce substitutes for it. Add to that the march of technological innovation (like the green revolution, birth control, etc.). The end result: markets figure out how to deal with problems of supply and demand. Which is exactly the situation with oil right now. I don't know much about world oil reserves. I'm not even necessarily arguing with their facts about how much the output from existing oil fields is going to decline, or that world demand for oil is increasing. But these changes in supply and demand are slow and gradual -- a few percent each year. Markets have a way with dealing with situations like this: prices rise a little bit. That is not a catastrophe, it is a message that some things that used to be worth doing at low oil prices are no longer worth doing. Some people will switch from SUVs to hybrids, for instance. Maybe we'll be willing to build some nuclear power plants, or it will become worth it to put solar panels on more houses. The NY Times article totally flubs the economics time and again. Here is one example from the article: The author writes: The consequences of an actual shortfall of supply would be immense. If consumption begins to exceed production by even a small amount, the price of a barrel of oil could soar to triple-digit levels. This, in turn, could bring on a global recession, a result of exorbitant prices for transport fuels and for products that rely on petrochemicals -- which is to say, almost every product on the market. The impact on the American way of life would be profound: cars cannot be propelled by roof-borne windmills. The suburban and exurban lifestyles, hinged to two-car families and constant trips to work, school and Wal-Mart, might become unaffordable or, if gas rationing is imposed, impossible. Carpools would be the least imposing of many inconveniences; the cost of home heating would soar -- assuming, of course, that climate-controlled habitats do not become just a fond memory. If oil prices rise, consumers of oil will be (a little) worse off. But, we are talking about needing to cut demand by a few percent a year. That doesn't mean putting windmills on cars, it means cutting out a few low value trips. It doesn't mean abandoning North Dakota, it means keeping the thermostat a degree or two cooler in the winter. A little later, the author writes The onset of triple-digit prices might seem a blessing for the Saudis -- they would receive greater amounts of money for their increasingly scarce oil. But one popular misunderstanding about the Saudis -- and about OPEC in general -- is that high prices, no matter how high, are to their benefit. Although oil costing more than $60 a barrel hasn't caused a global recession, that could still happen: it can take a while for high prices to have their ruinous impact. And the higher above $60 that prices rise, the more likely a recession will become. High oil prices are inflationary; they raise the cost of virtually everything -- from gasoline to jet fuel to plastics and fertilizers -- and that means people buy less and travel less, which means a drop-off in economic activity. So after a brief windfall for producers, oil prices would slide as recession sets in and once-voracious economies slow down, using less oil. Prices have collapsed before, and not so long ago: in 1998, oil fell to $10 a barrel after an untimely increase in OPEC production and a reduction in demand from Asia, which was suffering through a financial crash. Oops, there goes the whole peak oil argument. When the price rises, demand falls, and oil prices slide. What happened to the end of the world as we know it? Now we are back to $10 a barrel oil. Without realizing it, the author just invoked basic economics to
Re: [Biofuel] Economist makes sense
For a good article on the limits of markets in anticipating resource shortages, see http://www.energycrisis.co.uk/reynolds/MineralEconomy.htm Markets will react to resource shortages, but they cannot be relied upon to anticipate them. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng
"How can I respond to the negative email below?" ...with persistence. Good luck! Mike "Pannirselvam P.V" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI Without the colaborative information exchange and dadta base information on biofuel both chemical and bioenginerring people are wasting the money in research not only in USA , but also in the developing country too as an academic curiosity to make patent and publish papers .Hence Mari the e mail has some fact for all the members to think about .Any research need sound chemical logic as well as economical objetive .Ethanol via biochemical route compared chemical syntysis seem to be very practical one .sdPannirselvam On 8/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HELP!How can I respond to the negative email below? It's from achemical engineer friend researching ethanol from cellulose. Isent him some info from this list to help his research, and wassurprised by the anger. Anyone have specific things I can say inresponse?The email: Hi MarilynThose guys are out in left field. From my perspective -- havingfollowed and evaluated various biomass gasification processes(technology and economics) for 27 years -- is that theBioengineering Resources guys are opportunistic promoters -- looking for suckers (e.g., U.S. DOE or some naive investors withmoney to waste). The technology is neither prove noreconomical. And who needs more vinegar (dilute acetic acid).Fermentation of synthesis gas to acetic acid is nonsense. Producing synthesis gas from biomass is itself unproven at anysignificant scale (not even in a decent pilot plant) -- and if it couldbe achieved, would be very expensive relative to other options forproducing synthesis gas. FYI -- Synthesis gas is a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which can be reacted overvarious catalysts at elevated temperatures to produce manydifferent products -- such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, andvarious oxygenated organic compounds. The synthesis gas first has to be purified (made extremely clean), and the H2/CO ratioalso has to be adjusted for the specific application. After thesynthesis, further processing is usually required. Most of these assorted biomass energy promoters (and I have seen many come and go over 27 years) don't understandchemical engineering, process economics, resourceavailability/supply/transportation economics, etc., etc. Yet everyevery 5-10 years a new "generation" of biomass advocates and promoters emerge (or are otherwise born into the light) whodon't know their asses from first base -- but think that biomasswill save the world -- and so promote all kinds of technicallydumb and uneconomical ideas -- and make life miserable for the people who are doing reasonable work. They all stroke eachother and keep each other going and feeling self-righteous.This whole business is too complicated and emotion-ridden forthe biomass zealots (and apparently for me too) for me to begin discussing the many dimensions of it in an e-mail.I personally favor the idea of exploiting biomass (intelligently) asa renewable energy resource -- and think that we can be utilizingit. However, a lot has to change (mostly politically, socially, economically, educationally, etc.) for that to ever happen. Thecause is not helped by promoters of dumb ideas.___Biofuel mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/-- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___Biofuel mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Economist make sense (except for Krugman)]
The problem is not that fossil fuels are costing more money, but that they are costing more energy. As the section of the economy devoted to extracting fossil fuels consumes more of the yield of fossil fuels, there is less left for consumption, to run the rest of the economy. Now it's quite true that much of our current economy is low-value, but the fact remains the the economy of the future is going to be structurally different and will have less surplus over subsistence. As renewable energy becomes more important and fossil fuels less available and more expensive, stationary uses of energy will have an advantage over transportation, which in turn will have implications for economic scale, including the scope of international trade. This economist seems never to have heard of net energy, but he will. It's a typical fantasy of neoclassical economists that economics trumps physics. Don't believe it. Douglas Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, robert luis rabello wrote: My sister, the stockbroker, sent this message to me. I thought I'd post it here for comment. http://www.freakonomics.com/blog.php Sunday, August 21, 2005 Peak Oil: Welcome to the media's new version of shark attacks The cover story http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/magazine/21OIL.htmlof the New York Times Sunday Magazine written by Peter Maass is about Peak Oil. The idea behind peak oil is that the world has been on a path of increasing oil production for many years, and now we are about to peak and go into a situation where there are dwindling reserves, leading to triple-digit prices for a barrel of oil, an unparalleled worldwide depression, and as one web page http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/puts it, Civilization as we know it is coming to an end soon. One might think that doomsday proponents would be chastened by the long history of people of their ilk being wrong: Nostradamus, Malthus, Paul Ehrlich, etc. Clearly they are not. What most of these doomsday scenarios have gotten wrong is the fundamental idea of economics: people respond to incentives. If the price of a good goes up, people demand less of it, the companies that make it figure out how to make more of it, and everyone tries to figure out how to produce substitutes for it. Add to that the march of technological innovation (like the green revolution, birth control, etc.). The end result: markets figure out how to deal with problems of supply and demand. Which is exactly the situation with oil right now. I don't know much about world oil reserves. I'm not even necessarily arguing with their facts about how much the output from existing oil fields is going to decline, or that world demand for oil is increasing. But these changes in supply and demand are slow and gradual -- a few percent each year. Markets have a way with dealing with situations like this: prices rise a little bit. That is not a catastrophe, it is a message that some things that used to be worth doing at low oil prices are no longer worth doing. Some people will switch from SUVs to hybrids, for instance. Maybe we'll be willing to build some nuclear power plants, or it will become worth it to put solar panels on more houses. The NY Times article totally flubs the economics time and again. Here is one example from the article: The author writes: The consequences of an actual shortfall of supply would be immense. If consumption begins to exceed production by even a small amount, the price of a barrel of oil could soar to triple-digit levels. This, in turn, could bring on a global recession, a result of exorbitant prices for transport fuels and for products that rely on petrochemicals -- which is to say, almost every product on the market. The impact on the American way of life would be profound: cars cannot be propelled by roof-borne windmills. The suburban and exurban lifestyles, hinged to two-car families and constant trips to work, school and Wal-Mart, might become unaffordable or, if gas rationing is imposed, impossible. Carpools would be the least imposing of many inconveniences; the cost of home heating would soar -- assuming, of course, that climate-controlled habitats do not become just a fond memory. If oil prices rise, consumers of oil will be (a little) worse off. But, we are talking about needing to cut demand by a few percent a year. That doesn't mean putting windmills on cars, it means cutting out a few low value trips. It doesn't mean abandoning North Dakota, it means keeping the thermostat a degree or two cooler in the winter. A little later, the author writes The onset of triple-digit prices might seem a blessing for the Saudis -- they would receive greater amounts of money for their increasingly scarce oil. But one popular misunderstanding about the Saudis -- and about OPEC in general -- is that high prices, no matter how high, are to their benefit. Although oil costing
Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng
Hi All, got a wood gasification plant running in Derry, Ireland, website www.ruralgeneration.com also working on gas turbine application runnning on biomass gasification ;^) go n'eiri an mbothair leat!!! dD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol
Hi. We here in the peoples republic of California are forced to run our gas cars on ethanol blends. The argument has been made that ethanol doesnt burn as well as gas thus causing less pollutants and less gas mileage per gal offsetting the advantages of fuel blending. Since the cars are designed for gasoline not alcohol there is a loss in net mileage. Jtf has a good section on alcohol as fuel it may be better for you to look at that as an alternative. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of James A. Eckman Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol I am new to the list and one reason for joining is to find out if there is anyplace in northeast Ohio where I can buy ethanol.Since most cars on the road can use at least E10 blendany help would be appreciated. I am looking for something I can do immediately in addition to driving more carefully to reduceour oil addiction. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rich The use of compostingas the pre treatmenthave several disadvantages.Instead ofselective removal of lignin the hemicelluose and cellulose are significantly lost as well as the long processing time , the need for mixed inoculations and also as the problem of contamination. Surley yet this method can be apropriate for rural areas sd Pannirselvam /18/05, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am looking at the second chapter of Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel -Raw materials chapter at http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh2.html#2_1. At the "Crop Residue" part, it says: "The "backbone" of sugar and starch crops -- the stalks and leaves -- is composed mainly of cellulose. The individual six-carbon sugar units in cellulose are linked together in extremely long chains by a stronger chemical bond than exists in starch. As with starch, cellulose must be broken down into sugar units before it can be used by yeast to make ethanol. However, the breaking of the cellulose bonds is much more complex and costly than the breaking of the starch bonds. Breaking the cellulose into individual sugar units is complicated by the presence of lignin, a complex compound surrounding cellulose, which is even more resistant than cellulose to enzymatic or acidic pretreatment. Because of the high cost of converting liquefied cellulose into fermentable sugars, agricultural residues (as well as other crops having a high percentage of cellulose) are not yet a practical feedstock source for small ethanol plants. Current research may result in feasible cellulosic conversion processes in the future."I am alsolooking at Stu Campbell's book "LET IT ROT!The gardener's guide to composting, Revised edition.My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part ofthe ethanol creation process? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Qumica - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Ps Graduao em Engenharia Qumica - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitrio CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ The purpose of conversion to ethane is to extract energy from matter, right? Composting produces heat (energy) right? Why not just use the heat energy directly for diverse purposes? Every time energy is transformed from one state to another, there is a loss. Reducing the number of energy transitions from raw to usable should reduce the losses incurred in the process. Why not a composting engine? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Economist make sense (except for Krugman)]
--- robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My sister, the stockbroker, sent this message to me. I thought I'd post it here for comment. So why do I compare peak oil to shark attacks? It is because shark attacks mostly stay about constant, but fear of them goes up sharply when the media decides to report on them. The same thing, I bet, will now happen with peak oil. I expect tons of copycat journalism stoking the fears of consumers about oil induced catastrophe, even though nothing fundamental has changed in the oil outlook in the last decade. Yup, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Everything is as it will always be. There are no sudden changes, only trends. Go back to work as if nothing has happened. And as for you Easter Islanders, there are plenty of trees still growing over on that other side of the island you haven't seen in awhile. Stop worrying!! -K Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng
In my opinion. Since the dawn of time science and scientists have been considered quacks. The persistent have succeeded on one level or another. If you dont try you cant succeed. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 5:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng How can I respond to the negative email below? ...with persistence. Good luck! Mike Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI Without the colaborative information exchange and dadta base information on biofuel both chemical and bioenginerring people are wasting the money in research not only in USA , but also in the developing country too as an academic curiosity to make patent and publish papers .Hence Mari the e mail has some fact for all the members to think about . Any research need sound chemical logic as well as economical objetive . Ethanol via biochemical route compared chemical syntysis seem to be very practical one . sd Pannirselvam On 8/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HELP! How can I respond to the negative email below? It's from a chemical engineer friend researching ethanol from cellulose. I sent him some info from this list to help his research, and was surprised by the anger. Anyone have specific things I can say in response? The email: Hi Marilyn Those guys are out in left field. From my perspective -- having followed and evaluated various biomass gasification processes (technology and economics) for 27 years -- is that the Bioengineering Resources guys are opportunistic promoters -- looking for suckers (e.g., U.S. DOE or some naive investors with money to waste). The technology is neither prove nor economical. And who needs more vinegar (dilute acetic acid). Fermentation of synthesis gas to acetic acid is nonsense. Producing synthesis gas from biomass is itself unproven at any significant scale (not even in a decent pilot plant) -- and if it could be achieved, would be very expensive relative to other options for producing synthesis gas. FYI -- Synthesis gas is a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which can be reacted over various catalysts at elevated temperatures to produce many different products -- such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, and various oxygenated organic compounds. The synthesis gas first has to be purified (made extremely clean), and the H2/CO ratio also has to be adjusted for the specific application. After the synthesis, further processing is usually required. Most of these assorted biomass energy promoters (and I have seen many come and go over 27 years) don't understand chemical engineering, process economics, resource availability/supply/transportation economics, etc., etc. Yet every every 5-10 years a new generation of biomass advocates and promoters emerge (or are otherwise born into the light) who don't know their asses from first base -- but think that biomass will save the world -- and so promote all kinds of technically dumb and uneconomical ideas -- and make life miserable for the people who are doing reasonable work. They all stroke each other and keep each other going and feeling self-righteous. This whole business is too complicated and emotion-ridden for the biomass zealots (and apparently for me too) for me to begin discussing the many dimensions of it in an e-mail. I personally favor the idea of exploiting biomass (intelligently) as a renewable energy resource -- and think that we can be utilizing it. However, a lot has to change (mostly politically, socially, economically, educationally, etc.) for that to ever happen. The cause is not helped by promoters of dumb ideas. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
[Biofuel] Iodine value, polymerisation and oxidation
Hello, My WVO consist of 80% polyunsaturated oil and i calculated that this has an iodine value of 150. But when i look at the table National standards for biodiesel, found here http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield2.html#biodstds you see the iodine value of BD should be on avarage less then 120. Which makes my BD not suitable for my car cause the BD will undergo polymerisation. You also read on the webpage that oil with a iodine number above 50 will damage your car. Found here http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html. On the other hand i red this article stating that Trans-esterifying triglyceride oils and fats with monohydric alcohols to form biodiesel largely eliminates the tendency of the oils and fats to undergo polymerisation and auto-oxidation and also reduces the viscosity of the oil to about the same as petroleum diesel. Found here http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/paper/paper.htm My idea was to mix my high polyunsaturated BD with mineral diesel until it does no demage to my car, but i now i don't know how much of each i should use. Can anyone help me please, i am very confused. Greetings, Marc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
