date:20060328

Okay, I normally don't read Time magazine, but they are publishing a
Special Report on Global Warming.  I know it's boiled down, but it is
also very mainstream.  Are we soon going to have a critical mass of
people realize that we are on the downslope?  Oh yeah, probably
not...Hooray America!  Where the dumb lead the blind!

Be Worried, be very worried.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/26/coverstory/index.html

www.time.com

On 3/28/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello Charles

 Hi all
 
 I am currently beginning processing WVO into biodiesel to use in my
 home heating. I have a furnace designed specifically for diesel fuel
 and I would like to know if anyone has any experience of using
 biodiesel in such a furnace and if there are any problems they've
 come across. Also since it's just a combustion chamber, will I be
 able to get away with mixing some (20%?) WVO in with my biodiesel in
 my tank, and just cleaning my injectors each year?

 Home heating
 http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_heaters.html#homeheat

 Just also wanted to share my excitement at making my first 1l batch
 from WVO- processed well and the third wash is crystal clear!

 Well done! Definitely a special thrill, and a wonderful sense of
 discovery with it. All the jaded old-timers around here envy you. :-)

 Keep going!

 Best

 Keith


 Regards
 
 Charles List


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Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11

2006-03-28 Thread Jack Schwartz

Original query from Bob Allen:
  Didn't Jones collaborate with Fleischmann and Pons
  in the cold fusion fiasco?
Response from Todd Swearingen:
Two separate teams working towards different goals, although the 
mediums were largely similar. They shared some data but essentially 
worked independantly.

Todd's response reminds me of something.  The worldwide sensation 
caused by the Fleischmann and Pons publication by press conference 
of their beaker-scale, electrochemical supposed *cold fusion* results 
led the Utah legislature to appropriate a large parcel of support 
funding for cold fusion research by way of a special research 
foundation, or something like that.  It became a matter of high Utah 
state pride.

As was very reasonable for him to do, Steven Jones did accept a share 
of this very unexpected source of funding for his research.  And as 
part of the functioning of the Utah cold fusion research 
foundation, and just as a natural course, there undoubtedly was some 
sharing of data as pointed out by Todd.

   -- Jack



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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

Ahh...yes, Georgia. Meth capital of the South.

I bet you live on Peachtree Rd.

Join the vol. fire dept. half of them will cops. Tell 'em you do BD
because you don't want none o yer money going to them A-rabs. You'll be
fine.

Gregg Davidson wrote:

Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely the
home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel.

*/Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:

Regular Unleaded Gas...

Jeeez, where do you live?

Gregg Davidson wrote:

Hi Mike,

This isn't one of those too good to be true things is it? I've
had
to forgo biodiesel production due to all the meth heads causing
problems with getting some of the components. I have about 55
gallons
of WVO I'd like to convert into fuel for my Liberty, but because of
the local situation, I'm erring on the side of caution. The logical
thing would be to talk to the local law enforcement just as a
courtesey, but logic is thrown out the window in my neck of the
woods.

By the way, what is RUG?

Sincerely,
Gregg Davidson

*/Mike Weaver /* wrote:

Yes, Andrew, it's true.

I myself have made a pile of money off of it and am now running a
huge
fleet of trucks on DSE.

Nah, it's the same as blending - 80% filtered veg oil, 6% RUG and
14%
Iso (change formula depending on who you believe)

There is a ton on stuff on the web on blending. You can google for
more.

-Mike

Andrew Netherton wrote:

Greetings,

I recently clicked through an ad to
http://www.dieselsecret.com/ that
claims to enable you to make an alternative diesel fuel from
vegetable
oil - not biodiesel, and with no conversion. It sounds simple
enough,
take vegetable oil (virgin or used), add their Alternative Diesel
Fuel Additive (supposedly a catalyst of some sort), filter,
and use.

Obviously, if they have something worthwhile I'd like to know about
it. Just as obviously, if they're selling something that is
less than
ideal for diesel engines, I'd like to know that too. Has anyone on
the list tried what they're selling, good or bad? Anyone with a
chemistry background care to hazard a guess as to what their
additive
might be?

Regards,
Andrew Netherton

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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

2006-03-28 Thread Darryl McMahon

Let's remember that the issue is not whether or not nature produces 
greenhouse gases - we know it does.  IMO, the issue is whether or not 
the balance that has existed for many thousands of years and made the 
planet's surface sufficiently hospitable and stable for our species is 
shifting to our disadvantage.  If it is, the next question is whether or 
not humans can change their behaviour at a planetary level to bring us 
back to the desired balance, whatever the root cause of the shift may 
turn out to be (I suspect it will be a mix of factors, including our 
addiction to burning fossil fuels at an unprecedented rate over the past 
century).

We need the planet and the environment to be relatively stable and 
hospitable for the survival of the human species.  The planet has no 
such dependence on us.

As for this article, well it's just another theory, and remains to be 
tested.  Until it survives serious scrutiny, it's just more smoke. 
Krakatoa had a huge short-term impact as well, but there was a return to 
balance to a matter of years.  I'm not ready to try to compare the two 
events, but shouldn't we be seeing a return to balance after the Russian 
meteorite impact, rather than an ever-increasing divergence?

Darryl McMahon

Randall wrote:
 Very interesting article!   It does help to remember that nature operates on 
 a scale MUCH larger than mere human activity.
 
 Time will tell if this theory is given the same testing as other theories 
 have been given, or if it is just brushed under the rug.
 
 --Randall
 Charlotte, NC
 
 ___
 
  Heisenberg may have slept here 
 
 If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my 
 xe.  --Abraham Lincoln
 
 ___
 
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:09 PM
 Subject: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone
 
 
 
 Greenhouse theory smashed by biggest stone


 A new theory to explain global warming was revealed at a meeting at
 the University of Leicester (UK) and is being considered for
 publication in the journal Science First Hand. The controversial
 theory has nothing to do with burning fossil fuels and atmospheric
 carbon dioxide levels.

http://www.physorg.com/news11710.html

I found this interesting based on the credibility of the source.
Controversial, it should be published to stand the scrutiny test given
by the entire scientific world.

Jim


-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?


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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

best line from thread:

Many in Europe and you Brits probably think we Americans complain too 
much about our relatively low fuel tax. However, the Brits and Europeans 
get health care and a social safety net in the bargain... We get an 
unwinable war.

Keith Addison wrote:

Hello Andrew

It's obvious that it's a scam.

More details here from some folk who believed it:
http://greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=3349

See:
Veg-oil blends
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#blends

We didn't really need to give them another free ad though. Never mind.

Keith



  

Greetings,

I recently clicked through an ad to http://www.dieselsecret.com/ that
claims to enable you to make an alternative diesel fuel from vegetable
oil - not biodiesel, and with no conversion.  It sounds simple enough,
take vegetable oil (virgin or used), add their Alternative Diesel
Fuel Additive (supposedly a catalyst of some sort), filter, and use.

Obviously, if they have something worthwhile I'd like to know about
it.  Just as obviously, if they're selling something that is less than
ideal for diesel engines, I'd like to know that too.  Has anyone on
the list tried what they're selling, good or bad?  Anyone with a
chemistry background care to hazard a guess as to what their additive
might be?

Regards,
Andrew Netherton




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Re: [Biofuel] Diesel heating

2006-03-28 Thread Thomas Kelly

Charles,
 I've been burning approx 30% biodiesel: 70% home heating oil this past 
heating season. The only problems I've experienced are to be expected : 
Change line filter element and nozzle due to the cleansing action of BD on 
an old tank and fuel line. Learn how to do this yourself and have spare 
filters/nozzles on hand.
 I have a Beckett AF burner with a Suntec pump. The pump (and most 
others) has a rubber shaft seal which is incompatible w.  BD. It will 
eventually swell and leak. I did not experience any problem with it for the 
8 months I've used it w. BD30. My tank is in my basement and I did not 
preheat the mix even though temps go down to about 50F down there.
 This past week I have teed a small experimental tank
 into the fuel line and am attempting to run BD100 in the furnace. I 
replaced the Suntec pump w. a Webster Bio Pump (w. viton seals); very easy 
to do.
 So far: I've been able to run BD70 by adjusting the pressure screw on 
the pump (increase) and adjusting the air band on the burner (lowered). 
Knowing little about burners, furnaces, and pumps, and lacking pressure 
gauges, I limited myself to 1/2 turn on the pressure adjustment. A service 
tech is coming today from the local oil co. to see if he can get it going on 
BD100.
 Congratulations on your successful batch and best wishes,
   Tom
- Original Message - 
From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:11 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Diesel heating


 Hi all

 I am currently beginning processing WVO into biodiesel to use in my  home 
 heating. I have a furnace designed specifically for diesel fuel  and I 
 would like to know if anyone has any experience of using  biodiesel in 
 such a furnace and if there are any problems they've
come across. Also since it's just a combustion chamber, will I be  able to 
get away with mixing some (20%?) WVO in with my biodiesel in  my tank, and 
just cleaning my injectors each year?

 Just also wanted to share my excitement at making my first 1l batch  from 
WVO- processed well and the third wash is crystal clear!

 Regards
 Charles List



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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

I can hear Waylon now...Just two good old boys, never meanin' no harm...Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the lawSince the day they was born.Straightenin' the curves, flattenin' the hills...
Someday the mountain might get 'em but the law never will.Makin' their way, the only way they know how...That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.Just two good ol' boys, wouldn't change if they could,
Fightin' the system like two modern-day Robin Hoods...Maybe ethanol is for you... Gregg Davidson wrote:   Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely the
  home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel.   */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:   Regular Unleaded Gas...
   Jeeez, where do you live?  -- Thanks,Paul in South CarolinaHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchYou can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright

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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

Wrong.

*God gave Man dominion over all the earth.*

*Genesis 1:26* Then God said, Let us make man in our image, in our 
likeness, and */let them rule/* over the fish of the sea and the birds 
of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the 
creatures that move along the ground.

Now, getta the way of my SUV.  I gotta stop at Wal-Mart before church 
starts.

'Merika



Keith Addison wrote:

Very interesting article!   It does help to remember that nature operates on
a scale MUCH larger than mere human activity.



Hm, that means we can do whatever we like and it doesn't matter. 
Guzzle guzzle guzzle, waste waste waste.

What about this though?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329438787-111492,00.html
UN warns of worst mass extinctions for 65m years
David Adam, environment correspondent
Tuesday March 21, 2006

That's us. Or is it just the UN trying to justify its huge waste of 
money once again.

You seem to miss the point that it's not a pissing contest between 
man and nature, hey, mine's bigger than yours, it's the sheer SCALE, 
you know. Man is a PART of nature in an ecological whole called the 
biosphere. The law of ecology is that everything is connected to 
everything else, it's all interdependent. That's how nature 
operates. So to try to cop out on it on the grounds that we're too 
puny and insignificant to have an effect  just doesn't work, 
everything has an effect, including the famed Amazonian butterfly 
beloved of the Chaos theorists, it's wings that flaps its wings and 
there's a storm in Europe. We have a PROFOUND effect, much more so 
than any other species if you're just going to count mere damage as 
effect. Other species are probably more crucial overall to 
maintaining optimal conditions for all in the biosphere, but we don't 
do too badly on the beneficial score either, a widely 
under-recognised fact. So I have to point to our murderous aspect 
above when I seek an example, interesting.

More than that, it's quite easy to divide humans into two distinct 
species in this issue of who causes wjhat damage and who causes which 
benefits. On the one side you have people and the communities they 
live in, and the further you get out of the cities the more benign 
they are - yet there are benign or beneficial aspects to city-based 
communities too. On the other side you have our so-called human 
institutions, a large sector of which are not even remotely human, 
and this is where you find the damage concentrated.

One area that chaos theory very much applies to is planetary climate, 
an immensely complex system that's affected by just about everything.

Years ago I told one of the first global-warming deniers on the list 
that in a way it didn't matter. A real study of the climate would 
require hard work by virtually all the scientific disciplines, which 
would be a hell of a good idea whether the climate was changing or 
not. First, a major problem with science is specialisation and 
overspecialisation, scientists have been bothered about it for 80 
years at least. They learn more and more about less and less until 
they know everything about nothing at all. They can't even talk to 
each other, there's no integration, it's splintered, especially when 
it comes to anything biological, where, again, everything is 
connected to everything else. Biology needs a multidisciplinary 
approach. Lewis Thomas once said we should halt all scientific 
research and focus all scientific effort on one single problem - how 
a living cell works. When we understood that then we could go ahead 
with other stuff again. Very wise! And now at last that kind of 
interdisciplinary collaboration is happening in the worldwide stufy 
of the planetary climate.

The best minds in the world are engaged in this effort. They've made 
a lot of progress over the last 18 years. The findings also fall into 
two clear diovisions: first, virtually all reputable scientists 
engaged in the study agree that climate change is a fact, not a 
theory, it's happening, and virtually all the new findings exceed the 
predictions - it's worse than expected, faster than expected, more 
murderous and damaging than expected. Already. Right now. Ansd they 
confirm manmade emissions as the major culprit.

On the other side you get a handful people like Salllie Baliunas and 
Willie Soon, equipped with a masssive amplifier and loudspeaker 
system via all the Astroturf groups, the Wise Use think-tanks and all 
the usual suspects.

If you want to argue about it please first check this thoroughly:

http://snipurl.com/huc2
Biofuel archive
Search results for 'Baliunas'

  

Time will tell if this theory is given the same testing as other theories
have been given, or if it is just brushed under the rug.



The rug - you mean under the Regular Unleaded Gasoline?

You just know there's an agenda behind all this global warming stuff, do you?

  

I found this interesting based on the credibility of the source.

Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11

2006-03-28 Thread Chris Lloyd




 Is there something in the water in Utah? Didn't Jones 
collaborate with Fleischmann and Pons in the cold fusion fiasco? 

If Cold Fusion is such a fiasco why has £400 
million been spent on buying up C.P. patents. 
Chris



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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

YEEE-HAW!Kinda makes you wonder how many vehicles run on moonshine ethanol in rural areas under the radar.On 3/28/06, Mike Weaver
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:A '66 Charger running on ethanol?Paul S Cantrell wrote:
I can hear Waylon now... Just two good old boys, never meanin' no harm... Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the law Since the day they was born. Straightenin' the curves, flattenin' the hills...
Someday the mountain might get 'em but the law never will. Makin' their way, the only way they know how... That's just a little bit more than the law will allow. Just two good ol' boys, wouldn't change if they could,
Fightin' the system like two modern-day Robin Hoods... Maybe ethanol is for you... Gregg Davidson wrote:Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely
the home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel. */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Regular Unleaded Gas... Jeeez, where do you live?
-- Thanks, Paul in South Carolina He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch You can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright

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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

Mike Weaver wrote:
 Wrong.

Right.
 
 *God gave Man dominion over all the earth.*

The implication is one of stewardship.  Man was supposed to work the 
earth and care for it.
 
 *Genesis 1:26* Then God said, Let us make man in our image, in our 
 likeness, and */let them rule/* over the fish of the sea and the birds 
 of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the 
 creatures that move along the ground.

The nations were angry;
and your wrath has come.
The time for judging the dead
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great;
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.  Rev. 11:18


 Now, getta the way of my SUV.  I gotta stop at Wal-Mart before church 
 starts.

Now, I know people have difficulty with reading comprehension, and I 
realize your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek.  But in the event 
that some profoundly misinformed church goer spews out the dominion 
argument, it's often helpful to respond WITH scripture in order to 
provide some enlightenment.


robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] How To Steal an Election

2006-03-28 Thread Darryl McMahon

Seems to me there are a few levels to the practice.

First, establishing the mechanics to pull off the theft initially.  This 
appears to be well in hand courtesy of the voting machines produced by 
Diebold, ESS and Sequoia (and possibly others).  Incredibly, Diebold 
can make an automated teller machine (ATM) with sufficient paper-trail 
to satisfy the banks, but can't figure out how to provide even a 
semblance of this ability in a voting machine.  Anyone else find this odd?

Personally, I'm still a fan of the old-fashioned paper ballot.  Simple, 
cheap, completely auditable.  The process can be completely transparent 
to the extreme of using see-through ballot boxes (folded ballots).  I 
have worked as an election official on many occasions, and can assure 
you that results can be tallied just as fast with a paper-based system 
as with all the fancy, expensive electronics.  With scrutineers for 
candidates at every poll count, it's tough to fix the results at that level.

Second, the perpetrators need to control the appeals process, e.g., the 
U.S. Supreme Court (Florida 2000) and state officials elsewhere (Ohio 
2004 and apparently California for 2008).

For the most part, those folks are either elected, or appointed by those 
that are elected.  We (the voters) clearly need to get off the sofa 
(soma?) and do a better job of choosing our elected representatives.

Third, they need a docile and complacent populace that will ignore the 
transgressions.

Personally, whenever anyone whines at me about elected or appointed 
officials anymore, I ask them which candidate they campaigned for in the 
previous election.  Voting's not enough anymore (it never was).  We need 
to research the issues, and the candidates, and pay with our time and 
donations to get the representation we want.  It works for the 
multinational corporations - and there's more of us.  Activism is 
infectious.  Successful activism is virulent.  It doesn't matter where 
an individual encounters their Aha! moment - once awakened it spreads 
to other aspects of their lives.  (I'm pretty much fully-infected now, 
and I was groomed as a corporate fast-tracker.)

Of course, it helps if there are attractive platforms with credible 
candidates to vote for, but in reality, that's up to us, too.

In short, they can't steal the elections without our consent and complicity.

-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?


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Re: [Biofuel] How To Steal an Election

2006-03-28 Thread Chip Mefford

Darryl McMahon wrote:
 Seems to me there are a few levels to the practice.
 
 First, establishing the mechanics to pull off the theft initially.  
SNIP
 but can't figure out how to provide even a 
 semblance of this ability in a voting machine.  Anyone else find this odd?

Nope.

Ballot receipts were done away with a very long time ago for a reason.
If you remember your history, you'll remember this.

 Personally, I'm still a fan of the old-fashioned paper ballot.  Simple, 
 cheap, completely auditable.  The process can be completely transparent 
 to the extreme of using see-through ballot boxes (folded ballots).  I 
 have worked as an election official on many occasions, and can assure 
 you that results can be tallied just as fast with a paper-based system 
 as with all the fancy, expensive electronics.  With scrutineers for 
 candidates at every poll count, it's tough to fix the results at that level.

I agree all around.

Esp with a large push for folks to actually get involved in staffing
the polls and such. Also, every single enterprise not directly involved
in providing emergency care and transportation of the sick and injured
(elective surgery doesn't count at all) should be CLOSED FOR BUSINESS
on election day.

The country has only One Job on election day, only one. Nothing else
matters.

 snip
 Personally, whenever anyone whines at me about elected or appointed 
 officials anymore, I ask them which candidate they campaigned for in the 
 previous election.  Voting's not enough anymore (it never was). 
snip
 an individual encounters their Aha! moment - once awakened it spreads 
 to other aspects of their lives.  (I'm pretty much fully-infected now, 
 and I was groomed as a corporate fast-tracker.)

Well, I wasn't groomed for any such thing.
And I'd not be too quick to make a lot of assumptions
about other folks political actions, either.

As far as the relative merits of any top level politico
vs. any other, I am still amazed that folks continue to
think that somehow one party holds any particular high ground.

Back in October 2000, Down in Tri-State (Kentucky,
Ohio,West Virginia) YSA (yet still another) coal sludge
sediment pond blew out, dumping 250-300 million gallons of
coal sludge and just general vileness into the
Tug Fork drainage, blah blah blah, commiting an
environmental disaster blah blah on the scale
of blah blah, when compared to the Exxon Valdiz
blah blah blah.

Why all the blah blah blah? Because, it's appalachia,
and basically, not to put too fine a point on it,
it appears that no one not actually /there/ gives
a shit about it at all.

Now, Since Bush was going big big on Domestic Coal
production at the time, in what should have been a
vain attempt to swing a 'always falls to the democrats'
state like West Virginia to vote republican (and they
did, btw),

This would have been a slam dunk for Gore's folks. Lookee
here! A gigantic enviromental and human disaster, caused by
'big coals' complete and total disregard for the envionment,
and people, and Bush is out there campaining like big dog
totally on their behalf! We can BURY him with this!

So, why didn't they?

Umm, well it could have been because Gore's family,
along with Bush's family, and just about every other
powerful family involved in the US, has a piece of
Massey Energy /somewhere/ in their stock portfolio.

IN short, the Massey Energy 'ooops' down in Appalachia
(and there have been plenty of those) are HUGE compared
to the Valdiz incident. But, I never hear any tears fall
for the old Tug Fork.

Gore could have made this an issue, maybe even won on it. he
didn't. Why not? Folks will say he won anyway and they
may be right. Personally, I see him as another side of the
same coin. Might be a side I like better, but it's the
same coin none the less.

 Of course, it helps if there are attractive platforms with credible 
 candidates to vote for, but in reality, that's up to us, too.
 
 In short, they can't steal the elections without our consent and complicity.

Horseshit.

They have never had my consent, and certainly not my complicity.
This is not some game, where there are rules, fouls and penalties.
If there are any, then the rules are only for the 'commoners' not the
rulers.

 


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Re: [Biofuel] Diesel heating

2006-03-28 Thread RicAlls

congradulations and good luck with your heating aspirations. i am just starting to learn to process WVO with the same intention in mind to heat the house. when i made my first batch of BD with virgin oil i burned it through a 35,000 btu space heater with no problems at all. i am hoping that i will have similiar success with an oil furnace.
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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

Sorry, dude.

You lost me at the reading part.

robert luis rabello wrote:

Mike Weaver wrote:
  

Wrong.



   Right.
  

*God gave Man dominion over all the earth.*



   The implication is one of stewardship.  Man was supposed to work the 
earth and care for it.
  

*Genesis 1:26* Then God said, Let us make man in our image, in our 
likeness, and */let them rule/* over the fish of the sea and the birds 
of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the 
creatures that move along the ground.



   The nations were angry;
   and your wrath has come.
   The time for judging the dead
   and for rewarding your servants the prophets
   and your saints and those who reverence your name,
   both small and great;
   and for destroying those who destroy the earth.  Rev. 11:18


  

Now, getta the way of my SUV.  I gotta stop at Wal-Mart before church 
starts.



   Now, I know people have difficulty with reading comprehension, and I 
realize your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek.  But in the event 
that some profoundly misinformed church goer spews out the dominion 
argument, it's often helpful to respond WITH scripture in order to 
provide some enlightenment.


robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

2006-03-28 Thread Andrew Netherton

Don't you remember the episode where Uncle Jesse actually made up a
batch of moonshine to run in a car?  He had to outrun Roscoe and use
up all the fuel so he wouldn't get caught and go to jail!  Of course,
it wasn't the General Lee that they were burning it in.

Anyone else remember that episode?


On 3/28/06, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 YEEE-HAW!

 Kinda makes you wonder how many vehicles run on moonshine ethanol in rural
 areas under the radar.


 On 3/28/06, Mike Weaver  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  A '66 Charger running on ethanol?
 
  Paul S Cantrell wrote:
 
   I can hear Waylon now...
  
   Just two good old boys, never meanin' no harm...
   Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the law
   Since the day they was born.
   Straightenin' the curves, flattenin' the hills...
   Someday the mountain might get 'em but the law never will.
   Makin' their way, the only way they know how...
   That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.
   Just two good ol' boys, wouldn't change if they could,
   Fightin' the system like two modern-day Robin Hoods...
  
   Maybe ethanol is for you...
  
  
Gregg Davidson wrote:
   
 Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely
   the
 home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel.

 */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/*
   wrote:

 Regular Unleaded Gas...

 Jeeez, where do you live?

  
  
  
   --
   Thanks,
   Paul in South Carolina
  
   He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
  
   You can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright


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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

2006-03-28 Thread Chip Mefford

Mike Weaver wrote:
 Wrong.
 
 *God gave Man dominion over all the earth.*
 
 *Genesis 1:26* Then God said, Let us make man in our image, in our 
 likeness, and */let them rule/* over the fish of the sea and the birds 
 of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the 
 creatures that move along the ground.
 
 Now, getta the way of my SUV.  I gotta stop at Wal-Mart before church 
 starts.
 
 'Merika
 
 
 
 Keith Addison wrote:
 


Okay everyone, note I didn't start this, Mike did.

And since he decided to go here, I'll go too.

a lot of folks, including a *LOT* of, if not most, christians,
take this passage to imply that God gave man complete
license to use and dispose of the earth any way he
saw fit. Surely it can be read this way. However, taking
the long view, this doesn't make sense, why? Because it
DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. Q.E.D.

Of course, just as if the Bible were Slashdot, and the
whole of culture were the Internet, folks find what
they like, disregard the rest.

For this thesis for example, that Man is by creation,
a God ordained Raper and Plunderer of all things
of God's makings. (The common view), one has to completely
disregard Gen 2, in general, and  Gen 2:15
in particular And Jehovah God took the man, and put him
into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Okay, break it down. Did Jehovah God place man
into the garden to decimate, exploit, slash,
burn, mine, kill and then move on ? *OR*
did Jehovah God place man into the
garden (God's garden btw, not man's)
to dress and keep it.

I give you two examples;
An Amish Farm
An Openpit Mine.


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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

2006-03-28 Thread David Miller

Andrew Netherton wrote:
 Don't you remember the episode where Uncle Jesse actually made up a
 batch of moonshine to run in a car?  He had to outrun Roscoe and use
 up all the fuel so he wouldn't get caught and go to jail!  Of course,
 it wasn't the General Lee that they were burning it in.

 Anyone else remember that episode?
   

I do, vaguely.  I thought it was another uncle who actually brewed up 
the moonshine.  Uncle Jesse went to him because his was the only 
moonshine they measured in octane.

And they did, as usual, outrun Roscoe P Coltrain and use up the 'shine.  
Every last bit, of course, so they couldn't get a tablespoon out of the 
tank.  And they didn't get in trouble for attempting to evade the police 
- but then again that never seemed to be a crime in Hazzard County:)

--- David

 On 3/28/06, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 YEEE-HAW!

 Kinda makes you wonder how many vehicles run on moonshine ethanol in rural
 areas under the radar.


 On 3/28/06, Mike Weaver  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 A '66 Charger running on ethanol?

 Paul S Cantrell wrote:

   
 I can hear Waylon now...

 Just two good old boys, never meanin' no harm...
 Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the law
 Since the day they was born.
 Straightenin' the curves, flattenin' the hills...
 Someday the mountain might get 'em but the law never will.
 Makin' their way, the only way they know how...
 That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.
 Just two good ol' boys, wouldn't change if they could,
 Fightin' the system like two modern-day Robin Hoods...

 Maybe ethanol is for you...


 
 Gregg Davidson wrote:

   
 Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely
 
 the
 
 home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel.

 */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/*
 
 wrote:
 
 Regular Unleaded Gas...

 Jeeez, where do you live?

 

 --
 Thanks,
 Paul in South Carolina

 He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

 You can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: How To Steal an Election

Keith Addison wrote:


 A Natural History of Peace
 By Robert M. Sapolsky
 
  From Foreign Affairs, January/February 2006


What an interesting article!  Thanks, Keith!

It appears that what we need is a selective bottleneck to eliminate 
the knuckle draggers from among us and leave the more docile humans 
behind . . .  Now, I've read about that somewhere . . .


robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

Mike Weaver wrote:

 Sorry, dude.
 
 You lost me at the reading part.

Oh, that's right.  You didn't hear it from the pulpit . . .

I'm doing the praise service at church this weekend.  Wanna come up 
and hear me talk about environmental stewardship?

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

I go to one of those drive-through churches.

robert luis rabello wrote:

Mike Weaver wrote:

  

Sorry, dude.

You lost me at the reading part.


   
   Oh, that's right.  You didn't hear it from the pulpit . . .

   I'm doing the praise service at church this weekend.  Wanna come up 
and hear me talk about environmental stewardship?

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

Mike, I didn't know you were a Scientologist! Wink wink nudge nudge...I'd never accuse my worst enemy of that!I prefer online church: http://churchoffools.com
On 3/28/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I go to one of those drive-through churches.robert luis rabello wrote:Mike Weaver wrote:Sorry, dude.You lost me at the reading part.
 Oh, that's right.You didn't hear it from the pulpit . . . I'm doing the praise service at church this weekend.Wanna come upand hear me talk about environmental stewardship?
robert luis rabelloThe Edge of JusticeAdventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Page
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http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchYou can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright
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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

2006-03-28 Thread Fred Finch

Is that the same as one of those drive through liquor stores?On 3/28/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I go to one of those drive-through churches.robert luis rabello wrote:
Mike Weaver wrote:Sorry, dude.You lost me at the reading part. Oh, that's right.You didn't hear it from the pulpit . . .
 I'm doing the praise service at church this weekend.Wanna come upand hear me talk about environmental stewardship?robert luis rabelloThe Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
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Re: [Biofuel] How To Steal an Election

2006-03-28 Thread Darryl McMahon

Chip Mefford wrote:
 Darryl McMahon wrote:
 
Seems to me there are a few levels to the practice.

First, establishing the mechanics to pull off the theft initially.  
SNIP
but can't figure out how to provide even a 
semblance of this ability in a voting machine.  Anyone else find this odd?
 
 
 Nope.
 
 Ballot receipts were done away with a very long time ago for a reason.
 If you remember your history, you'll remember this.

There is a great deal more to auditability of voting records than a 
ballot receipt.  However, these techniques (e.g., a hash number check 
total or even a check digit) have not been implemented in the voting 
machines from the major vendors, although various back doors that permit 
manipulation of the tally without any audit record of the manipulation 
have been.  I've worked in computer systems a lot of years, including 
some work in the security side, and that's not just slipshod, it's 
deliberate.

I don't have any recollection of ballot receipts, but then I've only 
been politically active for about 35 years.  Of course, voting machines 
have never achieved the popularity here in Canada that they have in the 
U.S.  The machines I have seen here have a complete human-readable paper 
backup - a machine simply scans the check-boxes and maintains a running 
total.  In the event of discrepancies, challenges or judicial recounts, 
the final authority is the paper record and a human count, not the machine.

Personally, I'm still a fan of the old-fashioned paper ballot.  Simple, 
cheap, completely auditable.  The process can be completely transparent 
to the extreme of using see-through ballot boxes (folded ballots).  I 
have worked as an election official on many occasions, and can assure 
you that results can be tallied just as fast with a paper-based system 
as with all the fancy, expensive electronics.  With scrutineers for 
candidates at every poll count, it's tough to fix the results at that level.
 
 
 I agree all around.
 
 Esp with a large push for folks to actually get involved in staffing
 the polls and such. Also, every single enterprise not directly involved
 in providing emergency care and transportation of the sick and injured
 (elective surgery doesn't count at all) should be CLOSED FOR BUSINESS
 on election day.
 
 The country has only One Job on election day, only one. Nothing else
 matters.
 
 
snip
Personally, whenever anyone whines at me about elected or appointed 
officials anymore, I ask them which candidate they campaigned for in the 
previous election.  Voting's not enough anymore (it never was). 
snip
an individual encounters their Aha! moment - once awakened it spreads 
to other aspects of their lives.  (I'm pretty much fully-infected now, 
and I was groomed as a corporate fast-tracker.)
 
 
 Well, I wasn't groomed for any such thing.
 And I'd not be too quick to make a lot of assumptions
 about other folks political actions, either.
 
 As far as the relative merits of any top level politico
 vs. any other, I am still amazed that folks continue to
 think that somehow one party holds any particular high ground.

Agreed, but then I don't have any loyalty to any party.  I still vote 
for the candidate.  Of course, I have more choices than is traditional 
in the U.S.  There are six candidates on the ballot for the provincial 
by-election taking place here on Thursday.

 Back in October 2000, Down in Tri-State (Kentucky,
 Ohio,West Virginia) YSA (yet still another) coal sludge
 sediment pond blew out, dumping 250-300 million gallons of
 coal sludge and just general vileness into the
 Tug Fork drainage, blah blah blah, commiting an
 environmental disaster blah blah on the scale
 of blah blah, when compared to the Exxon Valdiz
 blah blah blah.
 
 Why all the blah blah blah? Because, it's appalachia,
 and basically, not to put too fine a point on it,
 it appears that no one not actually /there/ gives
 a shit about it at all.
 
 Now, Since Bush was going big big on Domestic Coal
 production at the time, in what should have been a
 vain attempt to swing a 'always falls to the democrats'
 state like West Virginia to vote republican (and they
 did, btw),
 
 This would have been a slam dunk for Gore's folks. Lookee
 here! A gigantic enviromental and human disaster, caused by
 'big coals' complete and total disregard for the envionment,
 and people, and Bush is out there campaining like big dog
 totally on their behalf! We can BURY him with this!
 
 So, why didn't they?
 
 Umm, well it could have been because Gore's family,
 along with Bush's family, and just about every other
 powerful family involved in the US, has a piece of
 Massey Energy /somewhere/ in their stock portfolio.
 
 IN short, the Massey Energy 'ooops' down in Appalachia
 (and there have been plenty of those) are HUGE compared
 to the Valdiz incident. But, I never hear any tears fall
 for the old Tug Fork.
 
 Gore could have made this an issue, maybe even won on it. he
 didn't. Why not? Folks will say he won

[Biofuel] Geothermal - Iceland to drill hole into a volcano

2006-03-28 Thread Kirk McLoren

BBC reports that Iceland will drill a hole into avolcano so it can tap heat from it, which eventually is hoped to produce commercially available energy. From the article: "Twenty years ago,geologist Gudmundur Omar Friedleifsson had a surprise when he lowered athermometer down a borehole. 'We melted the thermometer,' he recalls. 'It was set for 380C; but it just melted.'". Excuse me, Gudmundur, but howcould that ever have been a 'surprise'..."Discuss this story at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/03/27/1149253Links: 0. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4846574.stm
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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

2006-03-28 Thread Joe Street





Human activity is a part of the whole picture and it is ridiculous and
academic to have a discussion otherwise. Further to the discussion of
atmospheric concentrations of water vapor, ice crystal, and greenhouse
gasses there is also the effect seldom mentioned of other aerosols.
Sulfuric acid for example has a significant negaitive feedback effect.
Sulfuric acid droplets never completely evaporate but shrink and grow
depending on conditions but they are highly reflective. It is ironic
that the disaster of Sept. 11 afforded scientists an otherwise
impossible opportunity to observe the effect of having no aircraft
flying in the upper atmosphere and what they found was that there was a
marked increase in radiation influx during that time. It is also
ironic that this information means that the sulphur content in
petroleum jet fuel is having a counter effect on global warming and I'm
surprised the petro industry isn't all over that one but I guess it
still is not politically correct to be contributing to acid rain even
if you are combatting global warming LOL. I guess if we ever get all
the planes and cars burning low sulphur fuels we might have a little
more evidence of global warming in our faces eh? 

Joe

"God is a little too fond of a joke" -- Aristotle




bob allen wrote:

  I'm quite unimpressed with the article.  To claim that the observed elevation in temperatures is not 
due to the burgeoning concentrations of radiatively forcing gases in the atmosphere begs the 
question of why.  We know that gases such as CO2 and methane absorb strongly in the infrared.  Heat 
absorbed on the surface of the planet is radiated in the infrared, so CO2, methane, et. al. should 
trap the heat. So why is this phenomenon not observed? Is our understanding of simple physical 
principles that bad.

The article also badly represents the impact of water vapor in the atmosphere with respect to global 
warming.  Simply stated, water vapor is a dependent variable. That is, the hotter the atmosphere, 
the higher water vapor concentration in the atmosphere.  It produces a strong positive feedback that 
is accounted for in most if not all the gcm's (global climate models).

So how I'm not surprised that a country holding something like the second largest reserves of oil 
and gas on the planet might be proffering a alternative to the well accepted correlation between 
greenhouse gas emissions and the  "theory of global warming".

I will file this one under my rug.


Randall wrote:
  
  
Very interesting article!   It does help to remember that nature operates on 
a scale MUCH larger than mere human activity.

Time will tell if this theory is given the same testing as other theories 
have been given, or if it is just brushed under the rug.

--Randall
Charlotte, NC

___

 Heisenberg may have slept here 

"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my 
xe."  --Abraham Lincoln

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- Original Message - 
From: "JJJN" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "BIO" Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone




   Greenhouse theory smashed by biggest stone


 A new theory to explain global warming was revealed at a meeting at
 the University of Leicester (UK) and is being considered for
 publication in the journal "Science First Hand". The controversial
 theory has nothing to do with burning fossil fuels and atmospheric
 carbon dioxide levels.

http://www.physorg.com/news11710.html

I found this interesting based on the credibility of the source.
Controversial, it should be published to stand the scrutiny test given
by the entire scientific world.

Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

That's where we get the wine

Fred Finch wrote:

 Is that the same as one of those drive through liquor stores?

 On 3/28/06, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I go to one of those drive-through churches.

 robert luis rabello wrote:

 Mike Weaver wrote:
 
 
 
 Sorry, dude.
 
 You lost me at the reading part.
 
 
 
Oh, that's right.  You didn't hear it from the pulpit . . .
 
I'm doing the praise service at church this
 weekend.  Wanna come up
 and hear me talk about environmental stewardship?
 
 robert luis rabello
 The Edge of Justice
 Adventure for Your Mind
 http://www.newadventure.ca
 
 Ranger Supercharger Project Page
 http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
 http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
 
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11

2006-03-28 Thread MARIA BURGER

I'm certainly no "expert" either, but I would presume that charges placed
in the middle of the building would initiate structural collapse from the
middle. Nothing says you have to put them at the bottom! Cheers!
Chris

- Original Message -
From: bob allen
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:45
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's
group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11
Howdy Tom, I'm no expert but one feature of the towers was
rather large unbaffled elevator shafts. get a fire going and you
have a considerable chimney effect, also what other materials from the
planes and or structures themselves could have contributed to the flame
temperature- magnesium for example. once you get a few of the upper
floors to fail there was a pancaking effect as the top floors fell through
and added to the load on the floors below.wouldn't planted
charges caused the structural failure from the bottom up? That's not what
I recall from the videos.Tom Irwin wrote: Hi
Bob and all, I think it's in a lot of water supplies.
But I have a couple of questions for you that have bothered me for
sometime.. How does an oxygen starved kerosene fire melt structural
steel? Could such a fire really cause temperature hardened rivits to
fail? and so many simultaneously.
Tom

*From:* bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:15:03 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses
U.S. officials of lying about 9/11
Is there something in the water in Utah?
Didn't Jones collaborate with Fleischmann and
Pons in the cold fusion fiasco?
D. Mindock
wrote: See: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/
0...5179751,00.html http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635179751,00.html
Last fall, Brigham Young
University physics professor Steven E.
Jones made headlines when he
charged that the World Trade Center
collapsed because of
"pre-positioned explosives." Now, along with a group
that calls itself "Scholars for
9/11 Truth," he's upping the ante.
"We believe that senior government officials have covered up
crucial facts about what really
happened on 9/11," the group says in a
statement released Friday
announcing its formation. "We believe these
events may have been orchestrated
by the administration in order to manipulate
the American people into supporting
policies at home and abroad."
Headed by Jones and Jim Fetzer, University of Minnesota
Duluth distinguished McKnight
professor of philosophy, the group is made up
of 50 academicians and
others. They include Robert M.
Bowman, former director of the U.S. "Star
Wars" space defense program, and
Morgan Reynolds, former chief economist
for the Department of Labor in
President George W. Bush's first term.
Most of the members are less
well-known. Avery Wiseman |
03.25.06 - 4:19 pm | # http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tf2777/article12493_htm/#13842

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Re: [Biofuel] How To Steal an Election

2006-03-28 Thread Garth Kim Travis

Greetings,
It appears that in some states at least, there will be a difference between 
tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum, NAIS.  We are seeing opposition building and 
finally some candidate stepping forward that are oppose to NAIS.  Tennessee 
has new legislation being propose to make NAIS illegal in Tennessee as a 
mandatory program.  In the governors race in Texas, the independent 
opposition has come out strongly against NAIS.

I think NAIS is the issue that is waking up America.  It is slow, but 
people are actually  showing up and telling the politicians that they don't 
want it.

Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 12:28 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote:
Chip Mefford wrote:
  Darryl McMahon wrote:
 
 Seems to me there are a few levels to the practice.
 
 First, establishing the mechanics to pull off the theft initially.
 SNIP
 but can't figure out how to provide even a
 semblance of this ability in a voting machine.  Anyone else find this odd?
 
 
  Nope.
 
  Ballot receipts were done away with a very long time ago for a reason.
  If you remember your history, you'll remember this.

There is a great deal more to auditability of voting records than a
ballot receipt.  However, these techniques (e.g., a hash number check
total or even a check digit) have not been implemented in the voting
machines from the major vendors, although various back doors that permit
manipulation of the tally without any audit record of the manipulation
have been.  I've worked in computer systems a lot of years, including
some work in the security side, and that's not just slipshod, it's
deliberate.

I don't have any recollection of ballot receipts, but then I've only
been politically active for about 35 years.  Of course, voting machines
have never achieved the popularity here in Canada that they have in the
U.S.  The machines I have seen here have a complete human-readable paper
backup - a machine simply scans the check-boxes and maintains a running
total.  In the event of discrepancies, challenges or judicial recounts,
the final authority is the paper record and a human count, not the machine.

 Personally, I'm still a fan of the old-fashioned paper ballot.  Simple,
 cheap, completely auditable.  The process can be completely transparent
 to the extreme of using see-through ballot boxes (folded ballots).  I
 have worked as an election official on many occasions, and can assure
 you that results can be tallied just as fast with a paper-based system
 as with all the fancy, expensive electronics.  With scrutineers for
 candidates at every poll count, it's tough to fix the results at that 
 level.
 
 
  I agree all around.
 
  Esp with a large push for folks to actually get involved in staffing
  the polls and such. Also, every single enterprise not directly involved
  in providing emergency care and transportation of the sick and injured
  (elective surgery doesn't count at all) should be CLOSED FOR BUSINESS
  on election day.
 
  The country has only One Job on election day, only one. Nothing else
  matters.
 
 
 snip
 Personally, whenever anyone whines at me about elected or appointed
 officials anymore, I ask them which candidate they campaigned for in the
 previous election.  Voting's not enough anymore (it never was).
 snip
 an individual encounters their Aha! moment - once awakened it spreads
 to other aspects of their lives.  (I'm pretty much fully-infected now,
 and I was groomed as a corporate fast-tracker.)
 
 
  Well, I wasn't groomed for any such thing.
  And I'd not be too quick to make a lot of assumptions
  about other folks political actions, either.
 
  As far as the relative merits of any top level politico
  vs. any other, I am still amazed that folks continue to
  think that somehow one party holds any particular high ground.

Agreed, but then I don't have any loyalty to any party.  I still vote
for the candidate.  Of course, I have more choices than is traditional
in the U.S.  There are six candidates on the ballot for the provincial
by-election taking place here on Thursday.

  Back in October 2000, Down in Tri-State (Kentucky,
  Ohio,West Virginia) YSA (yet still another) coal sludge
  sediment pond blew out, dumping 250-300 million gallons of
  coal sludge and just general vileness into the
  Tug Fork drainage, blah blah blah, commiting an
  environmental disaster blah blah on the scale
  of blah blah, when compared to the Exxon Valdiz
  blah blah blah.
 
  Why all the blah blah blah? Because, it's appalachia,
  and basically, not to put too fine a point on it,
  it appears that no one not actually /there/ gives
  a shit about it at all.
 
  Now, Since Bush was going big big on Domestic Coal
  production at the time, in what should have been a
  vain attempt to swing a 'always falls to the democrats'
  state like West Virginia to vote republican (and they
  did, btw),
 
  This would have been a slam dunk for Gore's folks. Lookee
  here! A gigantic enviromental and human disaster, caused by
  'big coals' complete and total

Re: [Biofuel] A green question(s)...

2006-03-28 Thread MARIA BURGER

Hi Daniel,
Really you get good wash tests when you get a complete( or very close to
complete) reaction. Despite all the warnings about using too much NaOH, I find
its much easier to deal with a nice complete reaction that May have some excess
lye than to deal with an incomplete reaction that makes nasty emulsions due to
all the un-reacted WVO, mono and di glycerides. Happy Biodieseling!
Chris

- Original Message -
From: Daniel Madar
To: Biofuel Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:06
AM
Subject: [Biofuel] A green
question(s)...

Hi all,

First of all, a bigTHANX for all the people in Journey to Forever
for sharing their knowledge and experience with the rest of us!
I'm a beginner in the biodiesel world (a few months only), and I have
some questions... I've tried to find answers in the archives, but hadn't found
any.
Anyway, my story is something like this:
I have done a lot of new veg oil test batches of 1 liter (3.5 gr NaOH,
200ml Methanol) by the book, and at the quality washing tests (shaking
violently the separatedbiodiesel with water), although I got better
results with time, the best I got was a separation from the water, but with
half to one cm wide intermediate layer between the water and the biodiesel.
I've tried 3.7gr of NaOH and got worse results. Should I try 3.4gr of NaOH?
(maybe my measuring tools are poor...)
The funny thing is, that I tried to process a WVO. I did a titration with
1% NaOH, and got magenta\pink after 2.3 ml (2-3 times). So I put 5.8gr (3.5
+2.3) of NaOH, and got with the best washing quality test ever! The biodiesel
got separated in 20 minutes with a paper thin layer between. The third wash
was cristal clear. Beginners luck? In order to be sure that it is really
working, I've tried different concentration of NaOH. But then I got excellent
separation in the washing testalso with 6.2gr of NaOH... How can that
be? Was my magenta really pink and not magenta??? Perhaps my titration was to
low- do you get good washing tests when you use less NaOH than you should?

Thanx
Daniel

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Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone

2006-03-28 Thread Appal Energy

Preach it Brother Rabello!

Can I hear an amen?

Always wondered how so many Christians could shuck off environmental 
responsibility - as if right to life in the future is somehow different 
from right to life in the present.

There are a few good beans and it's getting better. Just looking for a 
day when the glass is two-halfves full.

Todd Swearingen



robert luis rabello wrote:

Mike Weaver wrote:

  

Sorry, dude.

You lost me at the reading part.


   
   Oh, that's right.  You didn't hear it from the pulpit . . .

   I'm doing the praise service at church this weekend.  Wanna come up 
and hear me talk about environmental stewardship?

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

2006-03-28 Thread Gregg Davidson

LOL! You may be right Paul! That type of alcohol may be more accessable. :)Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can hear Waylon now...Just two good old boys, never meanin' no harm...Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the lawSince the day they was born.Straightenin' the curves, flattenin' the hills... Someday the mountain might get 'em but the law never will.Makin' their way, the only way they know how...That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.Just two good ol' boys, wouldn't change if they could, Fightin' the system like two modern-day Robin Hoods...Maybe ethanol is for you... Gregg Davidson wrote: Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely the home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to
Biodiesel. */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Regular Unleaded Gas...Jeeez, where do you live? -- Thanks,Paul in South CarolinaHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchYou can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

2006-03-28 Thread Gregg Davidson

Hi Mike,Wrong answer Quiz Kid! LOL!!!I don't live in Atlanta. Rockmart is about an hour or so away, but I may have to agree with you about the Meth as that's what's caused all my woes. Unfortunately, I'm not able to join the local VFD because of some physical problems. GreggMike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahh...yes, Georgia. Meth capital of the South.I bet you live on Peachtree Rd.Join the vol. fire dept. half of them will cops. Tell 'em you do BD because you don't want none o yer money going to them A-rabs. You'll be fine.Gregg Davidson wrote: Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely the home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel. */Mike Weaver
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Regular Unleaded Gas... Jeeez, where do you live? Gregg Davidson wrote: Hi Mike, This isn't one of those "too good to be true" things is it? I've had to forgo biodiesel production due to all the "meth heads" causing problems with getting some of the components. I have about 55 gallons of WVO I'd like to convert into fuel for my Liberty, but because of the local situation, I'm erring on the side of caution. The logical thing would be to talk to the local law enforcement just as a courtesey, but logic is thrown out the window in my neck of the woods. By the way, what is RUG? Sincerely, Gregg Davidson */Mike Weaver /* wrote: Yes, Andrew, it's
true. I myself have made a pile of money off of it and am now running a huge fleet of trucks on DSE. Nah, it's the same as blending - 80% filtered veg oil, 6% RUG and 14% Iso (change formula depending on who you believe) There is a ton on stuff on the web on blending. You can google for more. -Mike Andrew Netherton wrote: Greetings,I recently clicked through an ad to http://www.dieselsecret.com/ that claims to enable you to make an alternative diesel fuel from vegetable oil - not biodiesel, and with no conversion. It sounds simple enough, take vegetable oil (virgin or used), add their "Alternative Diesel Fuel Additive" (supposedly
a catalyst of some sort), filter, and use.Obviously, if they have something worthwhile I'd like to know about it. Just as obviously, if they're selling something that is less than ideal for diesel engines, I'd like to know that too. Has anyone on the list tried what they're selling, good or bad? Anyone with a chemistry background care to hazard a guess as to what their additive might be?Regards, Andrew Netherton___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:
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Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lyingabout 9/11

2006-03-28 Thread Mike McGinness

Tom,

I am not taking a position one way or the other on the BYU professor's
accusations, but here are just a few thoughts regarding the comments
below on the maximum temperature of the fire, and steel strength or
melting steel:

I was recently reading about some new infrared camera fire safety
equipment fire fighters can use now that somehow sense when a flashback
is about occur.

OK, so what is a flashback? ( I didn't know until I read the article)

First off, combustible materials, for instance wood, cloth, plastics,
etc.,  from doors, furniture, flooring, etc., as they get heated up and
before they actually catch on fire, slowly decompose in what is called
thermal decomposition. They also do this while burning.

The thermal decomposition produces a mixture of volatile hydrocarbon
gases. These combustible gasses build up in confined areas until they
reach their LEL, (Lower Explosive Limit). When they reach the LEL it
causes a flashback explosion like effect. These flashbacks are
reportedly one of the two most dangerous things firefighters face. The
second is BLEVEs, Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor explosions. I guess in
a fire a large amount of plastic would easily melt into a liquid and
then become the source of a BLEVE.

Also I seem to recall that the British found out the hard way during the
Faulkan Islands incident that Aluminum will catch on fire and burn (a
single missile caught one of the British battleships on fire and it sank
in record time, as I recall, because there was no way to stop the
aluminum from burning once it started). The plane being aluminum. Not
sure about the twin towers but today's commercial buildings use aluminum
extrusions for the window frames and external superstructure. I think
aluminum burns pretty hot once ignited. Perhaps someone else has access
to that data? The NFPA (National Fire Protection Agency, which is a
non-government standards organization involved in setting protection
standards and running real fire tests) would have the data in their
publications, but their publications are not free nor are they online.
They would be in a major public library if anyone is curious enough to
look it up in the references section.

Since I am not a fire or combustion expert I am not sure what
temperatures these other materials could reach, but they could have been
a factor.

I do know that the strength of steel varies with temperature, and at the
temperatures in a fire the strength of the steel, even temperature
hardened rivets, is severely compromised. I doubt the engineers designed
the building to sustain both the physical damage of the impact of the
airliner followed by the damage and structural strength losses to the
structural steel, bolts and rivets caused by the fire. Once the
structural integrity was lost on one of the lower floors (below the roof
that is) and that floor collapsed, gravity and inertia did the rest as
the upper part of the building fell on the lower part.

Anyway this does not disprove the professors theory or his claim that
explosives were also used.

Mike McGinness

Tom Irwin wrote:

 Hi Bob and all, I think it's in a lot of water supplies. But I have a
 couple of questions for you that have bothered me for sometime.. How
 does an oxygen starved kerosene fire melt structural steel? Could such
 a fire really cause temperature hardened rivits to fail? and so
 many simultaneously. Tom

  -
  From: bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Sent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:15:03 -0300
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.
  officials of lying about 9/11

  Is there something in the water in Utah? Didn't Jones
  collaborate with Fleischmann and Pons in the
  cold fusion fiasco?



  D. Mindock wrote:
   See: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/ 0...5179751,00.html
   http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635179751,00.html
  
   Last fall, Brigham Young University physics professor
  Steven E. Jones
   made headlines when he charged that the World Trade Center
  collapsed
   because of pre-positioned explosives. Now, along with a
  group that
   calls itself Scholars for 9/11 Truth, he's upping the
  ante.
   We believe that senior government officials have covered
  up crucial
   facts about what really happened on 9/11, the group says
  in a statement
   released Friday announcing its formation. We believe
  these events may
   have been orchestrated by the administration in order to
  manipulate the
   American people into supporting policies at home and
  abroad.
   Headed by Jones and Jim Fetzer, University of Minnesota
  Duluth
   distinguished McKnight professor of philosophy, the group
  is made up of
   50 academicians and others.
   They include Robert M. Bowman, former director of the U.S.

Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

2006-03-28 Thread Rexis Tree

Why is it so secret? Why not just tell everyone what is in this diesel addictive? This is another put-in-the-magic-potion-and-it-will-works thing.
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Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lyingabout 9/11

2006-03-28 Thread Hakan Falk


Mike,

It is the same process that you have to deal with to get efficient 
stoves. It is actually three steps, the material, the coal and the 
gases and they have different burn temperatures, with the gases the 
highest. If all is burned, a wood stove will reach 70-80% efficiency, 
instead of around the 30% achieved in an open fireplace.

The flashback, if i remember right form my military fire education, 
is a result from fire in closed spaces. In a room the first phase 
will start to build up gases and temperature, but because of lack of 
oxygen the gases will not burn. If the door is opened or when the 
windows brake, the rush of oxygen in the space, that have very high 
temperature and gases, will cause an ignition of the gases in an 
explosive fashion. It is very dangerous for the fire fighters.

With the infrared equipment, they can measure the temperatures inside 
the space, before entering and judge if the conditions for a 
flashback are there.

Hakan


At 02:14 29/03/2006, you wrote:
Tom,

I am not taking a position one way or the other on the BYU professor's
accusations, but here are just a few thoughts regarding the comments
below on the maximum temperature of the fire, and steel strength or
melting steel:

I was recently reading about some new infrared camera fire safety
equipment fire fighters can use now that somehow sense when a flashback
is about occur.

OK, so what is a flashback? ( I didn't know until I read the article)

First off, combustible materials, for instance wood, cloth, plastics,
etc.,  from doors, furniture, flooring, etc., as they get heated up and
before they actually catch on fire, slowly decompose in what is called
thermal decomposition. They also do this while burning.

The thermal decomposition produces a mixture of volatile hydrocarbon
gases. These combustible gasses build up in confined areas until they
reach their LEL, (Lower Explosive Limit). When they reach the LEL it
causes a flashback explosion like effect. These flashbacks are
reportedly one of the two most dangerous things firefighters face. The
second is BLEVEs, Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor explosions. I guess in
a fire a large amount of plastic would easily melt into a liquid and
then become the source of a BLEVE.

Also I seem to recall that the British found out the hard way during the
Faulkan Islands incident that Aluminum will catch on fire and burn (a
single missile caught one of the British battleships on fire and it sank
in record time, as I recall, because there was no way to stop the
aluminum from burning once it started). The plane being aluminum. Not
sure about the twin towers but today's commercial buildings use aluminum
extrusions for the window frames and external superstructure. I think
aluminum burns pretty hot once ignited. Perhaps someone else has access
to that data? The NFPA (National Fire Protection Agency, which is a
non-government standards organization involved in setting protection
standards and running real fire tests) would have the data in their
publications, but their publications are not free nor are they online.
They would be in a major public library if anyone is curious enough to
look it up in the references section.

Since I am not a fire or combustion expert I am not sure what
temperatures these other materials could reach, but they could have been
a factor.

I do know that the strength of steel varies with temperature, and at the
temperatures in a fire the strength of the steel, even temperature
hardened rivets, is severely compromised. I doubt the engineers designed
the building to sustain both the physical damage of the impact of the
airliner followed by the damage and structural strength losses to the
structural steel, bolts and rivets caused by the fire. Once the
structural integrity was lost on one of the lower floors (below the roof
that is) and that floor collapsed, gravity and inertia did the rest as
the upper part of the building fell on the lower part.

Anyway this does not disprove the professors theory or his claim that
explosives were also used.

Mike McGinness

Tom Irwin wrote:

  Hi Bob and all, I think it's in a lot of water supplies. But I have a
  couple of questions for you that have bothered me for sometime.. How
  does an oxygen starved kerosene fire melt structural steel? Could such
  a fire really cause temperature hardened rivits to fail? and so
  many simultaneously. Tom
 
   -
   From: bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
   Sent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:15:03 -0300
   Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.
   officials of lying about 9/11
 
   Is there something in the water in Utah? Didn't Jones
   collaborate with Fleischmann and Pons in the
   cold fusion fiasco?
 
 
 
   D. Mindock wrote:
See: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/ 0...5179751,00.html

Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone