Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
Hi Mike - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mark manchester To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Jesse...thanks for writing. You wrote: This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. A sign of the times??? You wrote: Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? I wasn't thinking, at least about what response I might get. I felt frustrated, perhaps mostly by my own illusions. You wrote: How can anyone respond to this. One way is how you have responded. You wrote: No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. It depends on the question. For me in my post the question deals with how do I personally deal with the madness on the planet that appears to be becoming more so everyday. Biodiesel is a way. And I'm excited to see it develop. But I feel overwhelmed by something much bigger. I could call it Big Energy, Big Gov't. Big whatever. But I'm afraid it has something more to do with me than with anything outside of me. But then it's not just me...it's the sheer size and weight of humanity on the planet (and growing growing growing). Plenty of room to spare, no room for dogs in the manger. So I could do as you said: Leave!! But you and I both know it isn't that simple. For you it is your reasons. For me, I'll try to explain in answer to your question: What are you there for? Jesse I've thought about writing to Keith personally and asking him to remove me from the List since my original intention of joining the List has changed. You're welcome to change your intentions. It's not like a contract you're not allowed to break or something. A lot of people like the diversity of the list. There are these message snippets from various members at the website list subscription section, for instance: - I came to the list strictly interested in getting my biodiesel project off the ground. Following the various postings I have discovered that I see the world as if from the bottom of a well. The view is expanding ever so slightly, ever so slowly. Thanks to all. - The Biofuel list has awakened me to many ways I can directly help make a difference. The knowledge I have gained from reading the list in a few short months has encouraged me to try again. - I benefit very much personally from the list, and I have yet to make one drop of biofuel! But the insights that I get from the list are amazing. - I like the global view. It's good to have your beliefs challenged. - This list has proven to me how little I know, so many times. The only time I'd remove you is if your intentions changed to those of a dog in the manger and you couldn't be reasoned with. Otherwise, if you want out, you'd have to do it yourself, it's none of my business. I guess this is the background to the way the list runs, have a look, it might hearten you: http://journeytoforever.org/community.html#credo I came here with the intention of learning how to make biodiesel and having a support group while doing so. I have since decided for a multitude of reasons to not go this path. But the List, as you know, is about more than just biodiesel. It is...hmm...well, I guess that depends on who you are and I am and any one of us is and especially who Keith lets it be. It has a mind of its own. I'm just the skivvy. So I haven't written to Keith, because for me, what I have observed and come to look for in my email, is someone else trying, just like me, to survive the madness...not to Leave!!...but to Live!!! Or maybe I misjudged what I have been reading. I don't think so. I do think there are better options around than just surviving it though. Consequently, if this List is not the place for me to have expressed what I have how I have, then it isn't. Some might think it is, some might think it isn't, but if you think it's the place then it is the place, just as long as you're not being a dog in the manger. Ah well, the glaciers are fading (check out pics in June, 2006, Men's Journal...staggering...we're fried folks!) Too soon to tell. Definitely not too early to be wide awake and up and doing about it though, among other things. A lot of people think the Biofuel list is the right place for that too. as the planet heats up, BushCo not only not helpful but profoundly hurtful, US debt and the decline of the US dollar are poised to reveal to Americans the slaves all of us really are, even as jobs are disappearing for many here to many, many more Wall Street will pay less (actually the same according to some variations of the SOLVE act if it is passed) and conscript into its Death Machine, etc etc etc, apparently AD INFINITUM. So let me tell ya...I'm smilin babeee...I mean It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Toto?!! Toto?!! Oh TOTO And I feel
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
Hi Jesse, Mike This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? How can anyone respond to this. No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. Leave!! What are you there for? Jesse Leave for where? Where is it not the case? On the other hand, where is it *only* the case? Abandon hope all ye who enter here is what it says on the Gates of Hell, and we're not there yet. I don't think we're even headed in that direction, appearances to the contrary. Did you read Mike's previous message Jesse, below? Keith From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:30:57 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi D and List...Looking forward to watching What The Bleep Do We Know? Checked out the website, synopsis, and trailer. Wow. Thanks D. Big Energy, Big Government, Big Religion, Big Bad...why do I feel so sad? Just ain't no hope for the little guy...probably never was. David vs Goliath just another fairy tale. I HAVE A DREAM... Sorry pops, just a dream. The mountain of insolvency just too Big too overcome. Dang me, dang me, guess I'll take a rope and hang me. No hope anywhere...oh!...build myself a biodiesel plant...but wait...my neighbor's doin same. Last one to the WVO loses!!! Another dream defiled. Where's my bicycle...gotta be a problem there too...frame made in China??? Go buy some food...too stupid, poor, lazy, or just simply born at the wrong time in the wrong place to grow my own, to say nothing of the locust invasion last year that kept me out of the fields and meant me needing to buy from who knows where on the planet...DANG ME What a rotten Reality. Oh, I see, not supposed to SEE...just dream...Imagine...and take four bullets in the back. Lovely. Good morning, WORLD!!! I LOVE YOU!!! PEACE!!! Hey, give me back the shirt off my back. Ah well...takin my can of worms and goin fishin in that polluted water over there...and dream...with my gun by my side. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: D. Mindock mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 4:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Mike, Just want to add my 2 cents on this subject. If BlackLight, or anyone else, comes up with a solid system to create vast amounts of energy from water/hydrogen, it will be snatched up by Big Energy and then controlled by them. Not much will change. Our monthly energy bills won't go away. I think we can rely on the gov to allow Big Energy to parcel out energy to we wee folks and keep their profits in the 100's of billions of dollars per year. Congress writes the laws that Big Energy dictates. It is Big Energy that is gluttonous. The masses are bombarded with propaganda and hardly realize how they're all being manipulated. I am still waking up from this soup of B.S. we've been immersed in here in the U$A. Peace to all, D. Mindock P.S. I agree that we are all inter-connected, more than we can imagine. I saw the movie What the Bleep Do We Know? a couple years ago, and nothing's been the same since. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Thanks Bob...it's all new to me, and I'm thankful I have the List to present my inquiries. PS You noted earlier and Joe Street agreed, In my mind, infinite energy is the worst case scenario I can think of- energy to spare, energy to drive the gluttonous behavior of everybody on the planet. NO THANKS LOL...well...yes, I kind of agree, because I know way too many fatheads who would take advantage of ulimited energy in just such a manner. But then I also disagree. What WOULD unlimited energy mean for the planet and its' peoples??? To me, that question seems to point to a question of human nature, which your statement indicates you believe is utterly without hope for a true social consciousness and conscience. Maybe you disagree, but I'm just citing your words. Contrarily, I witness something very different present. Please hang with me for a moment while I try to explain. Independence is an illusion. Let me say that again, Independence is an illusion. I recognize individuality, but independence...NOT Every individual one of us is part of the same planet and ultimately the ever changing universe. This is the truth; this is true. More specifically, we each breathe the same air, drink the same water, eat the same dirt, at least as concerns the source. But it doesn't look, feel, taste, etc, that way because we each receive a modification of the source. Some get more of the source than others. Some get better quality of the source than others. Enter politics. Enter
Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine
If it's a secret, include the word iguana anywhere in your response and I'll drop the subject. No real secret Tom. I took the numbers for the caustic you used, extrapolated the number from our hands on experience with FFA recovery and chucked the number your direction. Excess acid is required to get a complete split of the soaps. Skimping will permit some soap to remain in the glycerol layer, leaving a darker glycerol layer (incomplete reaction). This reaction should be conducted in the presence of heat. Otherwise you will find that a high percentage of the soaps from your more saturated oils (tallow, palm, coconut, etc.) will not be cracked, leaving you with four layers in the recovery reactor instead of the preferred three. The fourth layer will be where the interface layer between phats/oils and the glycerol/methanol/acidic layer should be. Once complete, the heavily acidified glycerol needs to be neutralized. Best method is to use a potassium methoxide solution, yielding more KxPO4 (K1, K2 and K3). Using methoxide will net a a considerably dryer (less watered) methanol product from your evaporation/distillation recovery than will caustic dissolved in water. Sorry I don't have a stoichiometric + X number for you. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello to all, The short version: 1. To split the glycerine cocktail must one merely neutralize the NaOH/KOH used to produce it or is it necessary to go beyond neutral, to acid? 2. If it must be acidic, if one knows how much H3PO4 it takes to neutralize the mix, can one predict how much more H3PO4 it will take, to get the split? The long version: On 4/10/06 Todd Swearingen, in a post entitled Re: Separating Glycerine suggested that I would need to add 510 - 590 ml of 85% phosphoric acid to each cubie (4.5 gal/17.7L plastic container) of glycerine cocktail to achieve a split. Sure enough, when I added 540 ml (lowest) - 580ml (highest) of 85% H3PO4 to the next cubies of glycerine mix I got separation into mineral precip, crude glycerine, free fatty acids. I've been wondering ever since how he was able to make the calculation/prediction or is he just a good guesser? On 12/02/05 Bioclaire Nederland described how to calculate the amount of H3PO4 to add for separation if one knew the amount of NaOH used to process the WVO that yielded the Glycerine cocktail. (See separating Glycerine separating Glycerine Mistake!). The explanation is based on the equation for neutralizing NaOH using H3PO4. H3PO4 + 3NaOH -- Na3PO4 + 3H2O 1 Mole (98g) of H3PO4 will neutralize 3Moles (120g) NaOH If one knows how much NaOH (or KOH) was used in the batch(es) that produced the Glycerine cocktail it should be possible to calculate how much H3PO4 it would take to neutralize (and split?) the mix. Here is where the problem, and questions come in: The Glycerine mix I was using (4.5 gal/17.7L) containers each came from two 76L batches (152 L WVO, total). The oil I used for these batches titrated at 1.0 - 1.5 g NaOH/L of WVO. (684 - 760 g of NaOH) Adjusting for 85% H3PO4 (115g of 85% H3PO4 would contain the 98g - i.e. 1M.- of H3PO4) and using the density of 85% H3PO4 (~ 1.59g/ml), that I should only need 460ml of the 85% H3PO4 to neutralize the lye used to process the oil. Not all of the lye is in the glycerine cocktail. Some is in the BD. I use 0.20 ml H3PO4/L of oil processed when I do my first wash (15ml/76L batch or 30ml for two batches). This results in wash water very close to neutral suggesting to me that approximately 50 g of the lye used to process the WVO comes out in the BD, not in the Glyc. mix. The 710g of lye that is in the glyc. mix should only take about 430 ml of the 85% H3PO4 to be neutralized. None of the cubies would separate w less than 540ml of the 85% H3PO4. This suggests that it takes more than merely neutralizing the glycerine mix to get it to split. (Answer to Ques #1?) Note: I'm doing a lot of this in my basement or in a shed out back, not a lab. So how did you do it Todd?Neutralize + 20%? If it's a secret, include the word iguana anywhere in your response and I'll drop the subject. Still puzzled Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Todd, The link I provided was the original and only link that covered the story. The additional link was to the same site and probably written by the same person. If the original link was too emotional then you should write the author of the article. Don't shoot the messenger. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. The link you provided was all emotion and no detail. The one offered in response included a bit more meat and considerably less emotion. The point is to let the facts speak for themselves. They don't lie or mislead. Emotions often lead readers astray, which is precisely what is intended far too much of the time. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The conversion of our country into a police state is not something I can take lightly. I am POed at what's happening. I hate seeing the promise of America being trashed by a couple of oil barons and their henchmen, oh, and Ms. Rice. The facts were there in the link I gave. If you wish to dig deeper, be my guest. In this day and age of disinformation originating from propaganda disseminated by the US gov, paid for by our tax dollars, who are you going to trust? Have you seen the reportage from the Miami FTAA convention where people, some elderly, who were peacefully protesting were brutally assaulted? The USA is becoming a huge gulag, one day at a time, imo. The incident in Ohio with Carol Fisher was not an isolated incident. Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. Peace, D. Mindock PS Another update below: May 11, 10pm: Carol Fisher has been released! We'll send out more info when we have it. In the meantime, this is an excellent development. But it's also NOT over. We don't know what the judge and other authorities will do next. Carol's sentencing date is June 2. She still faces 3 years in jail and thousands of dollars in fines. We plan to appeal the verdict and challenge all the gross violations of her rights. Click here to find out what you can do to help. == - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio How about a little less emotionally charged, speech and a little more of the facts? Nothing personal. Just that the link you offered was 1,000% lopsided. Here's a slightly more factual bit, almost devoid of facts in comparison. http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1482Itemid=184 I'm sure that if one were to dig a little deeper there could be found a more thorough description of the events. While it sounds like a legit beef, it would be great to be afforded details, not whitewash on one side or hype on the other. If you do this stuff long enough, you soon realize that facts are your best friend and uber emotions all too frequently alienate potential advocates. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: This is happening in America, land of the free home of the brave. America is becoming a land of no compassion for common folk who protest against the crimes of BushCo. Even peace loving pacifists are being put into FBI databases. Anyone who loves peace and hates war is seen as a terrorist to the Oval Office where our Great Decider presides. Peace, D. Mindock http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1029Itemi ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
[Biofuel] Read my lips
http://numen.wordpress.com/2006/05/20/read-my-lips/ Read My Lips Daily Kos has a good article about the NarusInsight, ( http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/8/14724/28476 ) a little box from ATT that can monitor the contents (the semantic content, the meaning) of internet traffic at ten billion bits per second. Deep stuff. Just to help you understand how it works, try Googling something, anything, just like many of us do every day. Look over on the right, at the “Sponsored Links” section. Google reads the content of your search, and uses its text recognition software to understand what you are asking for, and responds with advertisers who are offering what you are looking for. Many of you now have Gmail, Google email accounts. Read your mail. There it is again, those “Sponsored Links”. Yes, Google is reading the contents of your mail, analyzing it, and responding. That’s how they make their money offering you free services like free searches and free email. They read and understand everything you read and write, and respond. Advertisers pay good money to Google because they believe Google does an excellent job understanding the meaning of everything you write. And that’s what the NarusInsight does. It reads everything you read or write on the internet, understands the meaning, and responds by sending “interesting” stuff to the NSA spy agency. ATT is not developing expensive equipment that can process ten billion bits per second out of charity. If it makes it, it will be purchased and used. Whether anyone tells you or not. So what about when you talk on your telephone or your cell phone? Well, ATT is right there, and has been for decades. Let’s see what they are doing right now: Accurate recognition of spontaneous large vocabulary telephone speech is of vital importance to ATT in numerous applications such as customer care and information retrieval. We developed a system for Large Vocabulary Conversational Speech Recognition (LVCSR) which for a third year in a row had the best performance of any industrial lab and finished second overall out of seven participating systems in the recent NSA sponsored and NIST administered Speech-To-Text (STT) part of the RT-02 Evaluation. Also, ATT was the only participant that managed to field a system running at faster than real-time speed. The annual evaluations aim to evaluate speech recognition technologies on difficult problems involving spontaneous conversational speech over the telephone, including cellular in different environments (office, street, moving vehicle). So now we have the technical ability to analyze every bit of text that flows across the internet. And we have the ability to turn everything spoken into a telephone, landline or cellular, into text. That’s pretty much everything folks. Analyzing text has been around for a long time. And turning speech into text has been around for a long time too. But it has been used in small scale commercial operations. Now we finally have the ability to do it on such a grand scale that it becomes possible not only to spy on those few people in the world who are terrorists, but to spy on every human on earth who might conceivably be a part of your political opposition. ( http://baalderdash.wordpress.com/2006/05/15/big-brother-is-listening/ ) This entry was posted on Saturday, May 20th, 2006 at 11:18:57 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Rachel's News - NAIS
Marylyn, This is disturbing news. I knew it was bad, but this way beyond bad; it is horrific to the small mom and pop farms. NAIS is another gift, a huge one, to Big Agro. Is there anything BushCo won't do for Big Biz? Nope, nothing is too much in the eyes of this evil regime. OCA, EarthJustice, ACLU, BlueWater, MoveOn, etc., really need to pool their resources to stop this out-of-control bunch of thugs. You're right about the USDA. It is corrupt, thoroughly infected by the virus of greed. USDA == unabashedly stupid dastardly a**holes. Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rachel's News - NAIS With the USDA program NAIS having a 10 mile radius kill ability .. if any suspected disease is found they will have the right to come into your house/farm/garden/barn/garage and remove and kill any animal .. they are not limiting this kill program to just those animals that may carry that particular disease .. Pet dogs and cats are mentioned with a vague wording about not being clear about whether or not a particular disease can be harbored by different species. We already know that it can be because these government inspectors have actually carried diseases from one farm to another by not properly following dis-infection procedures. In other words, if this program is allowed to go forward they can take everything. If your organic farm lies within a 10 mile radius it simply wouldn't matter if organic farms are exempt. .. the wording also includes something to the effect that they do not have to report any of their findings to the general public. There is something that would require them to report any findings to the owner of the animals but I'm fairly certain that would not be just compensation to a family that had been breeding and raising individual stock over a couple of generations. In my own area there is several small farms that have such programs .. there are 2 such farms that do their own breeding and 1 farm that purchases calves from elsewhere .. these animals are raised in limited numbers .. no more that 50 in one place, probably a little less than 100 in the other. One of the farmers transports his own beef from his farm in New Jersey to his butcher shop in Pennsylvania where he slaughters and trims this meat for his small butcher shop in Reigelsville, PA. I might add that his customers have been coming to him from his grandfathers time to obtain his grass fed beef. Also in my area .. Warren County, NJ .. the state government has severely restricted any additional building in an effort to protect the watershed .. that has left any remaining land in unprotected areas as coveted prizes for all the developers and builders. A program exists where a farmer can sell his farm to the land preservation program. This program them protects this as farm land it can never be used for anything except farm land .. and the family can stay in their home without facing a fairly ruthless group of hungry people .. the developers. To qualify for this land preservation program the property in question must meet certain qualifications .. 100 acres or more is one of them. What this boils down to is that those farms that don't have enough acreage to qualify are under some sever pressure .. sometimes to actually physically protect their planted crops and animals. Several farms are made up of many acres of land but not necessarily joined .. these don't qualify. I usually eat lunch at a great deli that also seems to be a favored lunch spot for the local farmers and I hear them talking .. one has at this point had to re-plant 2 fields because a fairly large truck drove into his newly planted fields and dug up such a large portion of it. The state police informed him that it has happened in several other areas .. either the same or a similar truck. This 10 mile kill radius places a rather nasty tool in the hands of individuals who .. for their own reasons .. want to drive out a particular farmer. The way I see it is that I have been granted certain rights by the Constitution. Right now that Constitution is under attack by our (U.S.) current administration. The USDA is attempting to institute a program that takes away many or those granted rights. By attempting to negotiate with them we are agreeing that they can take away some of those rights, but please don't take them all. I personally have stated that the USDA needs to be disbanded. It is a broken agency that .. from where I sit .. can not be repaired so it should be totally ended. Years ago I listened to a senate committee hearing on the MIAs of Vietnam. What I heard was that our elected representatives were not allowed to see the information and they were not entitled to view
Re: [Biofuel] Rachel's News - NAIS
Hi Marylyn, I've read that the Codex Alimentarius was supposed to take effect in England soon. There are some groups there fighting it through legal channels. I know the one by Dr Mathias Rath is one but, like you, I haven't seen any news as of late. I believe it already is a reality in Australia. In Germany, a bottle of zinc tablets that used to cost $3 now costs $50. I believe that the vitamins have to be made by pharmaceutical companies and that the maximum potency is limited. I think vit C will be limited to 100mg per tablet. We can count on paying much more for less, unless we here in the USA can wage a shock awe preemptive battle against it. I wrote my senators and Obama didn't reply. Durbin did and his reply was mealy mouthed. I am sure he will go along with Codex. Both these guys are Democrats. This label is not reassuring anymore. Clinton really screwed up this party. The Codex is supposed to govern standards between trading countries and the idea is to have harmonization, a nice word that I have grown to strongly dislike. They could have harmonized to a higher standard but instead went for lower. And because it will have the force of law here in the US (it started in Germany, Rath's home country) vitamins, herbs, essential oils, and supplements we take for granted will be off the shelves and online stores. Some will available by prescription only, like DHEA. This will gin up business for the docs who've been losing income because of people, like me, who assist their health using vits, oils, etc., and stay away from allopathic prescription drugs and their pushers. Probably the Codex will sit on the shelve until after the Nov elections. BushCo, imo, doesn't want to upset too many additional voters at this time. He doesn't have enough of those hackable touchscreens in operation for this election. Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rachel's News - NAIS I just did a google search on Codex Alimentarius and apparently, with the mighty blessing of the giant pharmaceutical conglomerates, it is still very much there .. I viewed the schedule of meetings at their main page and it had been updated on 5/18/06 .. 2 days ago. My guess is that it's just being quiet but I'm basing that on the fact that the Health Watch sites haven't been updated from 2005 .. but that could just be wishful thinking on my part. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rachel's News - NAIS Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 01:13:44 -0500 Hi Marylyn, Thanks for the articles. I belong to OCA, a great orginization that is struggling to keep organic organic against big industrial agriculturilists who want to totally destroy its meaning and significance. Do you have any updates about Codex Alimentarius? Is that still lurking in the background? Yep, NAIS will have a big negative impact on the small farmer, for sure. They should be excluded from it. It is another bad idea in a very long string of them coming from BushCo. It is a coincidence that I attended a seminar on detoxing a couple nights ago and most of the time was spent discussing the liver, the human liver of course :-) Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. I will have to check out rachel.org - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 10:24 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Rachel's News - NAIS While I was aware that the original organic movement .. consumer driven was taken over by the government quite a few years ago .. I was not aware the the USDA was the governing agency .. but of course, if I had thought about it that would have seemed obvious. But who could have imagined somethings so vile. It would be my opinion that organic growers .. given the facts of NAIS .. would constitute a very strong voice .. with or without animals .. they generally are intelligent people who have the ability to connect the dots. There could/would be - easily - enough of a ground swell to place information packets in Health Food Stores and begin to reach beyond the animal people. There are enough of these people who have been so chemical compromised that their very lives (or the lives of their children/loved one) depend on being able to obtain chemical free
[Biofuel] China's spending on renewable energy ranks world No. 1
http://en.ce.cn/Industries/EnergyMining/200605/17/t20060517_6993414.shtml China's spending on renewable energy ranks world No. 1 Last Updated(Beijing Time):2006-05-17 13:30 China has become the top investor in renewable energy in the world, experts said Tuesday at the ongoing forum for decentralized sustainable energy solutions in China. Dr. Eric Martinot, a senior research fellow with the U.S.-basedWorldwatch Institute and senior visiting scholar of Tsinghua University, said that excluding large hydropower, China invested 6billion U.S. dollars in renewable energy in 2005 out of a global total investment of 38 billion dollars.Soaring oil prices have made renewable energy a focus for worldinvestors, said Martinot. Government support for renewable energy was 10 billion dollars in 2004 for the United States and Europe, including budget fund and policy support. The United States and Europe provide more than700 million dollars per year for research and development, said Martinot.Moreover, large commercial banks are starting to notice renewable energy and several are adding renewable energy investments to their lending portfolios, he said.The industry of renewable energy is booming. There are now morethan 70 renewable energy companies worldwide with a market capitalization greater than 40 million dollars each. Their total market capitalization has been over 30 billion dollars.Major investments and acquisitions have been made in recent years by leading global companies such as GE, Siemens, Shell, BP, Sanyo and Sharp and the industry could provide over 1.7 billion jobs worldwide, he said.China is a great potential renewable energy market for world investors.Among the 6 billion dollars investment in 2005, most was pouredinto small hydropower and solar hot water energy, with 600 millionUS dollars for wind power.China plans to raise its electricity installed capacity for renewable energy to 10 percent of its total power capacity by 2010and 20 percent by 2020.By 2010, renewable energy excluding large hydropower will account for five percent of China's total primary energy consumption and the percentage is planned to rise to 10 percent by2020.The Chinese government has given much policy support to the industry of renewable energy. The law for renewable energy, the first of its kind is China, came into effect at the beginning of this year.Speaking at a meeting on energy development on the last month, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao called for effective measures to ensure the implementation of the government's energy saving and renewable development policies and emphasized that renewable energy is an important strategic alternative to coal and oil. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense/ YESmagazine.org
Check out YESmagazine.org The Summer, '06 Issue, articles including: -The Great Turning: From Empire to Earth Community by David Korten -North Korea and Cuba: Peak Oil Preview -The Perfect Economic Storm -Indigenous Prophecies by John Mohawk- -Neighborhoods Prepare for the Worst - and the Best 5000 years of Empire - Ready for a Change? (Note: The Summer Issue is not yet on-line, I see, but all previous issues are. Surely Summer is just around the corner.) It's not everything. But nothing is everything. -Martin K. On May 21, 2006, at 3:38 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Jesse, Mike This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? How can anyone respond to this. No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. Leave!! What are you there for? Jesse Leave for where? Where is it not the case? On the other hand, where is it *only* the case? Abandon hope all ye who enter here is what it says on the Gates of Hell, and we're not there yet. I don't think we're even headed in that direction, appearances to the contrary. Did you read Mike's previous message Jesse, below? Keith From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:30:57 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi D and List...Looking forward to watching What The Bleep Do We Know? Checked out the website, synopsis, and trailer. Wow. Thanks D. Big Energy, Big Government, Big Religion, Big Bad...why do I feel so sad? Just ain't no hope for the little guy...probably never was. David vs Goliath just another fairy tale. I HAVE A DREAM... Sorry pops, just a dream. The mountain of insolvency just too Big too overcome. Dang me, dang me, guess I'll take a rope and hang me. No hope anywhere...oh!...build myself a biodiesel plant...but wait...my neighbor's doin same. Last one to the WVO loses!!! Another dream defiled. Where's my bicycle...gotta be a problem there too...frame made in China??? Go buy some food...too stupid, poor, lazy, or just simply born at the wrong time in the wrong place to grow my own, to say nothing of the locust invasion last year that kept me out of the fields and meant me needing to buy from who knows where on the planet...DANG ME What a rotten Reality. Oh, I see, not supposed to SEE...just dream...Imagine...and take four bullets in the back. Lovely. Good morning, WORLD!!! I LOVE YOU!!! PEACE!!! Hey, give me back the shirt off my back. Ah well...takin my can of worms and goin fishin in that polluted water over there...and dream...with my gun by my side. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: D. Mindock mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 4:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Mike, Just want to add my 2 cents on this subject. If BlackLight, or anyone else, comes up with a solid system to create vast amounts of energy from water/hydrogen, it will be snatched up by Big Energy and then controlled by them. Not much will change. Our monthly energy bills won't go away. I think we can rely on the gov to allow Big Energy to parcel out energy to we wee folks and keep their profits in the 100's of billions of dollars per year. Congress writes the laws that Big Energy dictates. It is Big Energy that is gluttonous. The masses are bombarded with propaganda and hardly realize how they're all being manipulated. I am still waking up from this soup of B.S. we've been immersed in here in the U$A. Peace to all, D. Mindock P.S. I agree that we are all inter-connected, more than we can imagine. I saw the movie What the Bleep Do We Know? a couple years ago, and nothing's been the same since. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Thanks Bob...it's all new to me, and I'm thankful I have the List to present my inquiries. PS You noted earlier and Joe Street agreed, In my mind, infinite energy is the worst case scenario I can think of- energy to spare, energy to drive the gluttonous behavior of everybody on the planet. NO THANKS LOL...well...yes, I kind of agree, because I know way too many fatheads who would take advantage of ulimited energy in just such a manner. But then I also disagree. What WOULD unlimited energy mean for the planet and its' peoples??? To me, that question seems to point to a question of human nature, which your statement indicates you believe is utterly without hope for a true social consciousness and conscience. Maybe you disagree, but I'm just citing your words. Contrarily, I witness something very different present. Please hang with me for a moment while I try to explain. Independence is an
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
Hi Keith...and List...thank you. I had read, but forgotten (shame on me), the Credo before I asked to join. It gave me the confidence to ask to join. Wonderful to be reminded of, wake upwith and read this morning. Is that sunshine I see peaking through the clouds?!!! Getting ready to Look on the Bright Side of LIFE!!! Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Mike - Original Message -From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mark manchesterTo: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:22 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other NonsenseHi Jesse...thanks for writing. You wrote: This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. A sign of the times??? You wrote: Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? I wasn't thinking, at least about what response I might get. I felt frustrated, perhaps mostly by my own illusions. You wrote: How can anyone respond to this. One way is how you have responded. You wrote: No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. It depends on the question. For me in my post the question deals with how do I personally deal with the madness on the planet that appears to be becoming more so everyday. Biodiesel is a way. And I'm excited to see it develop. But I feel overwhelmed by something much bigger. I could call it Big Energy, Big Gov't. Big whatever. But I'm afraid it has something more to do with me than with anything outside of me. But then it's not just me...it's the sheer size and weight of humanity on the planet (and growing growing growing). Plenty of room to spare, no room for dogs in the manger. So I could do as you said: Leave!! But you and I both know it isn't that simple. For you it is your reasons. For me, I'll try to explain in answer to your question: What are you there for? Jesse I've thought about writing to Keith personally and asking him to remove me from the List since my original intention of joining the List has changed. You're welcome to change your intentions. It's not like a contract you're not allowed to break or something. A lot of people like the diversity of the list. There are these message snippets from various members at the website list subscription section, for instance: - "I came to the list strictly interested in getting my biodiesel project off the ground. Following the various postings I have discovered that I see the world as if from the bottom of a well. The view is expanding ever so slightly, ever so slowly. Thanks to all." - "The Biofuel list has awakened me to many ways I can directly help make a difference. The knowledge I have gained from reading the list in a few short months has encouraged me to try again." - "I benefit very much personally from the list, and I have yet to make one drop of biofuel! But the insights that I get from the list are amazing." - "I like the global view. It's good to have your beliefs challenged." - "This list has proven to me how little I know, so many times." The only time I'd remove you is if your intentions changed to those of a dog in the manger and you couldn't be reasoned with. Otherwise, if you want out, you'd have to do it yourself, it's none of my business. I guess this is the background to the way the list runs, have a look, it might hearten you: http://journeytoforever.org/community.html#credo I came here with the intention of learning how to make biodiesel and having a support group while doing so. I have since decided for a multitude of reasons to not go this path. But the List, as you know, is about more than just biodiesel. It is...hmm...well, I guess that depends on who you are and I am and any one of us is and especially who Keith lets it be. It has a mind of its own. I'm just the skivvy. So I haven't written to Keith, because for me, what I have observed and come to look for in my email, is someone else trying, just like me, to survive the madness...not to Leave!!...but to Live!!! Or maybe I misjudged what I have been reading. I don't think so. I do think there are better options around than just surviving it though. Consequently, if this List is not the place for me to have expressed what I have how I have, then it isn't. Some might think it is, some might think it isn't, but if you think it's the place then it is the place, just as long as you're not being a dog in the manger. Ah well, the glaciers are fading (check out pics in June, 2006, Men's Journal...staggering...we're fried folks!) Too soon to tell. Definitely not too early to be wide awake and up and doing about it though, among other things. A lot of people think the Biofuel list is the right place for that too. as the planet heats up, BushCo not only not
Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD
In a post (see below)
dated 4/18/06 I was concerned that I had microbial contamination in my last two
batches of BD.
I have been unable to
reproduce the results of an experiment(see Post below) and now believe
that the whispy sedimentwas a soap.
After several uneventful
batches I got a similar whispy sediment in a batch in which I used recovered
methanol that I have reason to believe had water in it. ("Water in Recovered
Methanol" 4/28/06)
Checking my notes ( I keep
notes on each of my batches ... including a running inventory on gal used
from methanol barrel) the mysterious whispy
sediment was first produced when I used methanol from the bottom of a barrel ...
the last two batches from a 55 gal barrel of methanol. Water???
I suspect that the
mysterious whispy sediment is more likely a soap rather than a
microbe.
Solution:
Idrain two+ gallons
of wash water below the standpipe in the tank (Had been going only 1 gal. or
so). Any soaps that refused towash out stay in the tank along w about 2+
gal. of washed BD. Every 3, 4, or 5batches I drain the tank, recover the
BD and water some plants w. the clear final washwater.
No more
problems
Tom
- Original Message -
From:
Thomas
Kelly
To: biofuel
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:44
AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD
Hello All,
I suspect I have
microbes in my recent batches of BD.
After washing, I drained the BD and allowed it to
settle. After a few days I noticed a whispy sediment on the bottom of the
containers of fuel. I gave the batch another wash and cleaned my 5 gal.
settling containers. The wash water was clear, but again the whispy sediment
appeared after a few days.
My next batch seemed to
wash very well, but again, a whispy sediment can be observed after the BD is
drained and allowed to settle.
I brought a sample of
the sediment toa local high school. We prepared a stained slide and
observed a multitude of tiny uniformly-shaped spheres at 400X.
I put 1 drop of the
sediment in a glass jar w. 250ml of clear, uncontaminated BD and put 250ml of
the same clear BD in an identical glass jar (control). Less than 24 hrs. later
the "innoculated" jar is slightly cloudy w. a very fine sediment on the bottom
and the control jar continues to be clear.
- I started using WVO that includes some
tallow. I noticed a post from JJN on
3/17/06 Re: Tallow:
"I am
treating all my bio with both an anti fungal and anti oxidant treatment since
I use tallow alot."
1. Any thoughts/similar
experience?
2. If it's microbes of some sort, should I treat the fuel
w.a
dieselanti-microbial and then filter it?
Will a
10 micron filter remove these critters?
3. If microbes
are present, do I have to be concerned w.
metabolic byproducts screwing up the fuel?
4. If not microbes, what's the
whispy stuff?
Thanks,
Tom
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Re: [Biofuel] Rachel's News - NAIS
When I was in grade school we had a program where if one kid got lice, all the kids had to be infected. The school nurse would check us without disinfecting her hands between kids and so pretty much ensured that the enite school got it. We boys just got a crew cut but it was hell on the girls. D. Mindock wrote: Marylyn, This is disturbing news. I knew it was bad, but this way beyond bad; it is horrific to the small mom and pop farms. NAIS is another gift, a huge one, to Big Agro. Is there anything BushCo won't do for Big Biz? Nope, nothing is too much in the eyes of this evil regime. OCA, EarthJustice, ACLU, BlueWater, MoveOn, etc., really need to pool their resources to stop this out-of-control bunch of thugs. You're right about the USDA. It is corrupt, thoroughly infected by the virus of greed. USDA == unabashedly stupid dastardly a**holes. Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rachel's News - NAIS With the USDA program NAIS having a 10 mile radius kill ability .. if any suspected disease is found they will have the right to come into your house/farm/garden/barn/garage and remove and kill any animal .. they are not limiting this kill program to just those animals that may carry that particular disease .. Pet dogs and cats are mentioned with a vague wording about not being clear about whether or not a particular disease can be harbored by different species. We already know that it can be because these government inspectors have actually carried diseases from one farm to another by not properly following dis-infection procedures. In other words, if this program is allowed to go forward they can take everything. If your organic farm lies within a 10 mile radius it simply wouldn't matter if organic farms are exempt. .. the wording also includes something to the effect that they do not have to report any of their findings to the general public. There is something that would require them to report any findings to the owner of the animals but I'm fairly certain that would not be just compensation to a family that had been breeding and raising individual stock over a couple of generations. In my own area there is several small farms that have such programs .. there are 2 such farms that do their own breeding and 1 farm that purchases calves from elsewhere .. these animals are raised in limited numbers .. no more that 50 in one place, probably a little less than 100 in the other. One of the farmers transports his own beef from his farm in New Jersey to his butcher shop in Pennsylvania where he slaughters and trims this meat for his small butcher shop in Reigelsville, PA. I might add that his customers have been coming to him from his grandfathers time to obtain his grass fed beef. Also in my area .. Warren County, NJ .. the state government has severely restricted any additional building in an effort to protect the watershed .. that has left any remaining land in unprotected areas as coveted prizes for all the developers and builders. A program exists where a farmer can sell his farm to the land preservation program. This program them protects this as farm land it can never be used for anything except farm land .. and the family can stay in their home without facing a fairly ruthless group of hungry people .. the developers. To qualify for this land preservation program the property in question must meet certain qualifications .. 100 acres or more is one of them. What this boils down to is that those farms that don't have enough acreage to qualify are under some sever pressure .. sometimes to actually physically protect their planted crops and animals. Several farms are made up of many acres of land but not necessarily joined .. these don't qualify. I usually eat lunch at a great deli that also seems to be a favored lunch spot for the local farmers and I hear them talking .. one has at this point had to re-plant 2 fields because a fairly large truck drove into his newly planted fields and dug up such a large portion of it. The state police informed him that it has happened in several other areas .. either the same or a similar truck. This 10 mile kill radius places a rather nasty tool in the hands of individuals who .. for their own reasons .. want to drive out a particular farmer. The way I see it is that I have been granted certain rights by the Constitution. Right now that Constitution is under attack by our (U.S.) current administration. The USDA is attempting to institute a program that takes away many or those granted rights. By attempting to negotiate with them we are agreeing that they can take away some of those rights, but please don't take them all. I personally have stated that the USDA needs to be disbanded. It is a broken agency that .. from where I sit .. can not be repaired
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Not shooting a messenger and it doesn't really matter if the both articles were from the same source or one was from Pluto and the other from Venus. One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. The other was only half as bad, although still poorly written. Personally? I'd like the facts first and I'd prefer to formulate my own judgements and orchestrate my own emotions, not have them played like a harp by anyone with a purpose. There's an enormous difference in purpose between the two pieces. That was what was pointed out and what you don't seem to want to address. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The link I provided was the original and only link that covered the story. The additional link was to the same site and probably written by the same person. If the original link was too emotional then you should write the author of the article. Don't shoot the messenger. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. The link you provided was all emotion and no detail. The one offered in response included a bit more meat and considerably less emotion. The point is to let the facts speak for themselves. They don't lie or mislead. Emotions often lead readers astray, which is precisely what is intended far too much of the time. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The conversion of our country into a police state is not something I can take lightly. I am POed at what's happening. I hate seeing the promise of America being trashed by a couple of oil barons and their henchmen, oh, and Ms. Rice. The facts were there in the link I gave. If you wish to dig deeper, be my guest. In this day and age of disinformation originating from propaganda disseminated by the US gov, paid for by our tax dollars, who are you going to trust? Have you seen the reportage from the Miami FTAA convention where people, some elderly, who were peacefully protesting were brutally assaulted? The USA is becoming a huge gulag, one day at a time, imo. The incident in Ohio with Carol Fisher was not an isolated incident. Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. Peace, D. Mindock PS Another update below: May 11, 10pm: Carol Fisher has been released! We'll send out more info when we have it. In the meantime, this is an excellent development. But it's also NOT over. We don't know what the judge and other authorities will do next. Carol's sentencing date is June 2. She still faces 3 years in jail and thousands of dollars in fines. We plan to appeal the verdict and challenge all the gross violations of her rights. Click here to find out what you can do to help. == - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio How about a little less emotionally charged, speech and a little more of the facts? Nothing personal. Just that the link you offered was 1,000% lopsided. Here's a slightly more factual bit, almost devoid of facts in comparison. http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1482Itemid=184 I'm sure that if one were to dig a little deeper there could be found a more thorough description of the events. While it sounds like a legit beef, it would be great to be afforded details, not whitewash on one side or hype on the other. If you do this stuff long enough, you soon realize that facts are your best friend and uber emotions all too frequently alienate potential advocates. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: This is happening in America, land of the free home of the brave. America is becoming a land of no compassion for common folk who protest against the crimes of BushCo. Even peace loving pacifists are being put into FBI databases. Anyone who loves peace and hates war is seen as a terrorist to the Oval Office where our Great Decider presides. Peace, D. Mindock http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1029Itemi ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD
Thanks Tom, I wonder what is your final wash water like and how do you mix it i.e. stir, bubble etc? I was having some of the same trouble because I was not doing my dehydration correctly and as a result suspended water would drop out with soaps and cause this same sort of problem. A good solar heater/dehydrator is good, but in winter I have to heat it till it is clear then I drain the bottom out. This greatly reduces the problem. PS I still use an antioxidant/biocide if I am storing it very long. Jim Thomas Kelly wrote: In a post (see below) dated 4/18/06 I was concerned that I had microbial contamination in my last two batches of BD. I have been unable to reproduce the results of an experiment (see Post below) and now believe that the whispy sediment was a soap. After several uneventful batches I got a similar whispy sediment in a batch in which I used recovered methanol that I have reason to believe had water in it. (Water in Recovered Methanol 4/28/06) Checking my notes ( I keep notes on each of my batches ... including a running inventory on gal used from methanol barrel) t he mysterious whispy sediment was first produced when I used methanol from the bottom of a barrel ... the last two batches from a 55 gal barrel of methanol. Water??? I suspect that the mysterious whispy sediment is more likely a soap rather than a microbe. Solution: I drain two+ gallons of wash water below the standpipe in the tank (Had been going only 1 gal. or so). Any soaps that refused to wash out stay in the tank along w about 2+ gal. of washed BD. Every 3, 4, or 5 batches I drain the tank, recover the BD and water some plants w. the clear final washwater. No more problems Tom - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:44 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Microbes in BD Hello All, I suspect I have microbes in my recent batches of BD. After washing, I drained the BD and allowed it to settle. After a few days I noticed a whispy sediment on the bottom of the containers of fuel. I gave the batch another wash and cleaned my 5 gal. settling containers. The wash water was clear, but again the whispy sediment appeared after a few days. My next batch seemed to wash very well, but again, a whispy sediment can be observed after the BD is drained and allowed to settle. I brought a sample of the sediment to a local high school. We prepared a stained slide and observed a multitude of tiny uniformly-shaped spheres at 400X. I put 1 drop of the sediment in a glass jar w. 250ml of clear, uncontaminated BD and put 250ml of the same clear BD in an identical glass jar (control). Less than 24 hrs. later the innoculated jar is slightly cloudy w. a very fine sediment on the bottom and the control jar continues to be clear. - I started using WVO that includes some tallow. I noticed a post from JJN on 3/17/06 Re: Tallow: I am treating all my bio with both an anti fungal and anti oxidant treatment since I use tallow alot. 1. Any thoughts/similar experience? 2. If it's microbes of some sort, should I treat the fuel w. a diesel anti-microbial and then filter it? Will a 10 micron filter remove these critters? 3 . If microbes are present, do I have to be concerned w. metabolic byproducts screwing up the fuel? 4. If not microbes, what's the whispy stuff? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
[Biofuel] no subject
Hi Keith, Mike, Yessir, Keith, I did. Did you read Mike's previous message Jesse, below? Keith Independence is an illusion. I recognize individuality, but independence...NOT Every individual one of us is part of the same planet and ultimately the ever changing universe. This is the truth; this is true. More specifically, we each breathe the same air, drink the same water, eat the same dirt, at least as concerns the source. But it doesn't look, feel, taste, etc, that way because we each receive a modification of the source. Some get more of the source than others. and This List is a wonderful place to help keep a guy honest and precise with his words. I've tried to do that, and I'm sure the LIST will help me do that better. We're all on a JourneyToForever, and the best any of us can do, it seems to me, is to be here to help ease the pain of our individuality a little or a lot. This is true and a very different message from below, the one I responded to, about the locusts, the polluted river, hopelessness and the gun at his side. My suggestion (ill-considered as usual, will I never learn?) was that if Mike feels as boxed in as he sounds, perhaps different geography would help, referring to the example Zeke recently set, in trying to change his life, leave a job he hated, make changes to his life to make himself more satisfied. Each of us must discover that for him or herself. Mike DuPree From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:30:57 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi D and List...Looking forward to watching What The Bleep Do We Know? Checked out the website, synopsis, and trailer. Wow. Thanks D. Big Energy, Big Government, Big Religion, Big Bad...why do I feel so sad? Just ain't no hope for the little guy...probably never was. David vs Goliath just another fairy tale. I HAVE A DREAM... Sorry pops, just a dream. The mountain of insolvency just too Big too overcome. Dang me, dang me, guess I'll take a rope and hang me. No hope anywhere...oh!...build myself a biodiesel plant...but wait...my neighbor's doin same. Last one to the WVO loses!!! Another dream defiled. Where's my bicycle...gotta be a problem there too...frame made in China??? Go buy some food...too stupid, poor, lazy, or just simply born at the wrong time in the wrong place to grow my own, to say nothing of the locust invasion last year that kept me out of the fields and meant me needing to buy from who knows where on the planet...DANG ME What a rotten Reality. Oh, I see, not supposed to SEE...just dream...Imagine...and take four bullets in the back. Lovely. Good morning, WORLD!!! I LOVE YOU!!! PEACE!!! Hey, give me back the shirt off my back. Ah well...takin my can of worms and goin fishin in that polluted water over there...and dream...with my gun by my side. Mike DuPree That's all folks. Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
Title: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Mike, Nuts, I forgot to put anything on the subject line in my response to you and to Keith. Sorry! Maybe you will find it anyway. Thanks for your thoughtful response. I appreciate your frustration! From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 23:17:24 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense - Original Message - From: mark manchester mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Jesse...thanks for writing. You wrote: This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. A sign of the times??? You wrote: Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? I wasn't thinking, at least about what response I might get. I felt frustrated, perhaps mostly by my own illusions. You wrote: How can anyone respond to this. One way is how you have responded. You wrote: No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. It depends on the question. For me in my post the question deals with how do I personally deal with the madness on the planet that appears to be becoming more so everyday. Biodiesel is a way. And I'm excited to see it develop. But I feel overwhelmed by something much bigger. I could call it Big Energy, Big Gov't. Big whatever. But I'm afraid it has something more to do with me than with anything outside of me. But then it's not just me...it's the sheer size and weight of humanity on the planet (and growing growing growing). So I could do as you said: Leave!! But you and I both know it isn't that simple. For you it is your reasons. For me, I'll try to explain in answer to your question: What are you there for? Jesse I've thought about writing to Keith personally and asking him to remove me from the List since my original intention of joining the List has changed. I came here with the intention of learning how to make biodiesel and having a support group while doing so. I have since decided for a multitude of reasons to not go this path. But the List, as you know, is about more than just biodiesel. Mike, I can only hope that you realize I meant geographically. If you have locusts and poisoned fish and no agriculture and hopelessness maybe a change of scenery might help. This list is extremely supportive for many who are feeling your frustration, trying to live off the grid, make their lives better, protect the planet, survive the madness. It is...hmm...well, I guess that depends on who you are and I am and any one of us is and especially who Keith lets it be. So I haven't written to Keith, because for me, what I have observed and come to look for in my email, is someone else trying, just like me, to survive the madness...not to Leave!!...but to Live!!! Or maybe I misjudged what I have been reading. Consequently, if this List is not the place for me to have expressed what I have how I have, then it isn't. Ah well, the glaciers are fading (check out pics in June, 2006, Men's Journal...staggering...we're fried folks!) as the planet heats up, BushCo not only not helpful but profoundly hurtful, US debt and the decline of the US dollar are poised to reveal to Americans the slaves all of us really are, even as jobs are disappearing for many here to many, many more Wall Street will pay less (actually the same according to some variations of the SOLVE act if it is passed) and conscript into its Death Machine, etc etc etc, apparently AD INFINITUM. So let me tell ya...I'm smilin babeee...I mean It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Toto?!! Toto?!! Oh TOTO And I feel fine... Mike DuPree Don't give up, dammit. Change needs as many participants as possible. Jesse From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:30:57 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi D and List...Looking forward to watching What The Bleep Do We Know? Checked out the website, synopsis, and trailer. Wow. Thanks D. Big Energy, Big Government, Big Religion, Big Bad...why do I feel so sad? Just ain't no hope for the little guy...probably never was. David vs Goliath just another fairy tale. I HAVE A DREAM... Sorry pops, just a dream. The mountain of insolvency just too Big too overcome. Dang me, dang me, guess I'll take a rope and hang me. No hope anywhere...oh!...build myself a biodiesel plant...but wait...my neighbor's doin same. Last one to the WVO loses!!! Another dream defiled. Where's my bicycle...gotta be a problem there too...frame made in China??? Go buy some food...too stupid, poor, lazy, or just simply born at the wrong time in the wrong place to grow my own, to say nothing of the locust invasion last year that kept me out of the fields and meant me needing to buy
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
Title: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Yay! Jesse From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 06:54:00 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Keith...and List...thank you. I had read, but forgotten (shame on me), the Credo before I asked to join. It gave me the confidence to ask to join. Wonderful to be reminded of, wake up with and read this morning. Is that sunshine I see peaking through the clouds?!!! Getting ready to Look on the Bright Side of LIFE!!! Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] no subject
Hey Jesse (and Jason and Mike Weaver)...thanks so much, Jesse...for both me and you.Changing location not out of the question, probably Canada (sorry friends to the North...might be gettin another fathead!!!), butgotta stick for now where I am, which OH...HEY Jason and Kate...My wife, Kathy, and I live in Lawrence. AndWeaver...you gotta be shittin me...you have familyinShawnee Mission??!!!...I graduated from Shawnee Mission North in 1970 LOL...and lived just about2 blocks to its southwest south of 61st St.on Robinson (6135 Robinson St.)...when there used to be a field and woods across the street out my front door to the west and a huge field out my back door to the east. It's all crowded now with apartment buildings and cars and general feeling ad nauseum. Anyway, isn't this something.Journey to Forever is helping me immensely get out of the boxI need to get out of for now, then I can think about the next box and lay all that on the List lol...Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "mark manchester" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] no subject Hi Keith, Mike, Yessir, Keith, I did. Did you read Mike's previous message Jesse, below? Keith "Independence" is an illusion. I recognize "individuality,"but "independence"...NOT Every individual one of us is part ofthe same planet and ultimately the ever changing universe. This isthe truth; this is true. More specifically, we each breathe thesame air, drink the same water, eat the same dirt, at least asconcerns the source. But it doesn't look, feel, taste, etc, thatway because we each receive a modification of the source. Some getmore of the source than others. and This List is a wonderful placeto help keep a guy honest and precise with his words. I've tried todo that, and I'm sure the LIST will help me do that better. We'reall on a JourneyToForever, and the best any of us can do, it seemsto me, is to be here to help ease the pain of our individuality alittle or a lot. This is true and a very different message from below, the one I responded to, about the locusts, the polluted river, hopelessness and the gun at his side. My suggestion (ill-considered as usual, will I never learn?) was that if Mike feels as boxed in as he sounds, perhaps different geography would help, referring to the example Zeke recently set, in trying to change his life, leave a job he hated, make changes to his life to make himself more satisfied. Each of us must discover that for him or herself. Mike DuPree From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgDate: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:30:57 -0500To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other NonsenseHi D and List...Looking forward to watching What The Bleep Do WeKnow? Checked out the website, synopsis, and trailer. Wow. ThanksD. Big Energy, Big Government, Big Religion, Big Bad...why do Ifeel so sad? Just ain't no hope for the little guy...probably neverwas. David vs Goliath just another fairy tale. "I HAVE A DREAM..." Sorry pops, just a dream. The mountain of insolvency just too Bigtoo overcome. "Dang me, dang me, guess I'll take a rope and hangme." No hope anywhere...oh!...build myself a biodiesel plant...butwait...my neighbor's doin same. Last one to the WVO loses!!! Another dream defiled. Where's my bicycle...gotta be a problemthere too...frame made in China??? Go buy some food...too stupid,poor, lazy, or just simply born at the wrong time in the wrong placeto grow my own, to say nothing of the locust invasion last year thatkept me out of the fields and meant me needing to buy from who knowswhere on the planet...DANG ME What a rotten Reality. Oh, Isee, not supposed to SEE...just dream..."Imagine"...and take fourbullets in the back. Lovely. Good morning, WORLD!!! I LOVE YOU!!!PEACE!!! Hey, give me back the shirt off my back. Ah well...takinmy can of worms and goin fishin in that polluted water overthere...and dream...with my gun by my side. Mike DuPree That's all folks. Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD
Jim, I stir wash. My final wash is often crystal clear. My oil is very good/dry to start. I normally get very little soap formation. My BD doesn't get to sit around long now that I use it to heat my house and for domestic hot water as well as in my car - '82 Mercedes 300SD. Tom - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD Thanks Tom, I wonder what is your final wash water like and how do you mix it i.e. stir, bubble etc? I was having some of the same trouble because I was not doing my dehydration correctly and as a result suspended water would drop out with soaps and cause this same sort of problem. A good solar heater/dehydrator is good, but in winter I have to heat it till it is clear then I drain the bottom out. This greatly reduces the problem. PS I still use an antioxidant/biocide if I am storing it very long. Jim Thomas Kelly wrote: In a post (see below) dated 4/18/06 I was concerned that I had microbial contamination in my last two batches of BD. I have been unable to reproduce the results of an experiment (see Post below) and now believe that the whispy sediment was a soap. After several uneventful batches I got a similar whispy sediment in a batch in which I used recovered methanol that I have reason to believe had water in it. (Water in Recovered Methanol 4/28/06) Checking my notes ( I keep notes on each of my batches ... including a running inventory on gal used from methanol barrel) t he mysterious whispy sediment was first produced when I used methanol from the bottom of a barrel ... the last two batches from a 55 gal barrel of methanol. Water??? I suspect that the mysterious whispy sediment is more likely a soap rather than a microbe. Solution: I drain two+ gallons of wash water below the standpipe in the tank (Had been going only 1 gal. or so). Any soaps that refused to wash out stay in the tank along w about 2+ gal. of washed BD. Every 3, 4, or 5 batches I drain the tank, recover the BD and water some plants w. the clear final washwater. No more problems Tom - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:44 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Microbes in BD Hello All, I suspect I have microbes in my recent batches of BD. After washing, I drained the BD and allowed it to settle. After a few days I noticed a whispy sediment on the bottom of the containers of fuel. I gave the batch another wash and cleaned my 5 gal. settling containers. The wash water was clear, but again the whispy sediment appeared after a few days. My next batch seemed to wash very well, but again, a whispy sediment can be observed after the BD is drained and allowed to settle. I brought a sample of the sediment to a local high school. We prepared a stained slide and observed a multitude of tiny uniformly-shaped spheres at 400X. I put 1 drop of the sediment in a glass jar w. 250ml of clear, uncontaminated BD and put 250ml of the same clear BD in an identical glass jar (control). Less than 24 hrs. later the innoculated jar is slightly cloudy w. a very fine sediment on the bottom and the control jar continues to be clear. - I started using WVO that includes some tallow. I noticed a post from JJN on 3/17/06 Re: Tallow: I am treating all my bio with both an anti fungal and anti oxidant treatment since I use tallow alot. 1. Any thoughts/similar experience? 2. If it's microbes of some sort, should I treat the fuel w. a diesel anti-microbial and then filter it? Will a 10 micron filter remove these critters? 3 . If microbes are present, do I have to be concerned w. metabolic byproducts screwing up the fuel? 4. If not microbes, what's the whispy stuff? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Cars runs on water and Other Nonsense
Sorry, for got to include subject...too happy - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] no subject Hey Jesse (and Jason and Mike Weaver)...thanks so much, Jesse...for both me and you.Changing location not out of the question, probably Canada (sorry friends to the North...might be gettin another fathead!!!), butgotta stick for now where I am, which OH...HEY Jason and Kate...My wife, Kathy, and I live in Lawrence. AndWeaver...you gotta be shittin me...you have familyinShawnee Mission??!!!...I graduated from Shawnee Mission North in 1970 LOL...and lived just about2 blocks to its southwest south of 61st St.on Robinson (6135 Robinson St.)...when there used to be a field and woods across the street out my front door to the west and a huge field out my back door to the east. It's all crowded now with apartment buildings and cars and general feeling ad nauseum. Anyway, isn't this something.Journey to Forever is helping me immensely get out of the boxI need to get out of for now, then I can think about the next box and lay all that on the List lol...Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "mark manchester" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] no subject Hi Keith, Mike, Yessir, Keith, I did. Did you read Mike's previous message Jesse, below? Keith "Independence" is an illusion. I recognize "individuality,"but "independence"...NOT Every individual one of us is part ofthe same planet and ultimately the ever changing universe. This isthe truth; this is true. More specifically, we each breathe thesame air, drink the same water, eat the same dirt, at least asconcerns the source. But it doesn't look, feel, taste, etc, thatway because we each receive a modification of the source. Some getmore of the source than others. and This List is a wonderful placeto help keep a guy honest and precise with his words. I've tried todo that, and I'm sure the LIST will help me do that better. We'reall on a JourneyToForever, and the best any of us can do, it seemsto me, is to be here to help ease the pain of our individuality alittle or a lot. This is true and a very different message from below, the one I responded to, about the locusts, the polluted river, hopelessness and the gun at his side. My suggestion (ill-considered as usual, will I never learn?) was that if Mike feels as boxed in as he sounds, perhaps different geography would help, referring to the example Zeke recently set, in trying to change his life, leave a job he hated, make changes to his life to make himself more satisfied. Each of us must discover that for him or herself. Mike DuPree From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgDate: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:30:57 -0500To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other NonsenseHi D and List...Looking forward to watching What The Bleep Do WeKnow? Checked out the website, synopsis, and trailer. Wow. ThanksD. Big Energy, Big Government, Big Religion, Big Bad...why do Ifeel so sad? Just ain't no hope for the little guy...probably neverwas. David vs Goliath just another fairy tale. "I HAVE A DREAM..." Sorry pops, just a dream. The mountain of insolvency just too Bigtoo overcome. "Dang me, dang me, guess I'll take a rope and hangme." No hope anywhere...oh!...build myself a biodiesel plant...butwait...my neighbor's doin same. Last one to the WVO loses!!! Another dream defiled. Where's my bicycle...gotta be a problemthere too...frame made in China??? Go buy some food...too stupid,poor, lazy, or just simply born at the wrong time in the wrong placeto grow my own, to say nothing of the locust invasion last year thatkept me out of the fields and meant me needing to buy from who knowswhere on the planet...DANG ME What a rotten Reality. Oh, Isee, not supposed to SEE...just dream..."Imagine"...and take fourbullets in the back. Lovely. Good morning, WORLD!!! I LOVE YOU!!!PEACE!!! Hey, give me back the shirt off my back. Ah well...takinmy can of worms and goin fishin in that polluted water overthere...and dream...with my gun by my side. Mike DuPree That's all folks. Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine
Todd, I'm always interested when two different lines of reasoning point to the same answer. Using experience with your method and my info re: lye used, you were able to give me a ballpark figure for how much H3PO4 I needed. Starting at the low end of the range you provided and gradually increasing acid, I've been able to split the cocktail quite easily. A sample of the mix + acid in a glass jar allows me to see the split. The method described by Bioclaire Nederland, when adjusted for the fact that my acid turned out to be less than 85%, that apparently less caustic comes out in the BD = more in the cocktail than I calculated, would at least approach the low area of the range you suggested. Both you and Ken P. state that more acid is needed than to simply neutralize. If anyone wants to know how to separate co-product go to JTF Separating Glycerine. There is a complete description of Todd's Method. It will work whether you know how much caustic is in the mix or not. Thank you for sharing your experience and expertise. Tom - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine If it's a secret, include the word iguana anywhere in your response and I'll drop the subject. No real secret Tom. I took the numbers for the caustic you used, extrapolated the number from our hands on experience with FFA recovery and chucked the number your direction. Excess acid is required to get a complete split of the soaps. Skimping will permit some soap to remain in the glycerol layer, leaving a darker glycerol layer (incomplete reaction). This reaction should be conducted in the presence of heat. Otherwise you will find that a high percentage of the soaps from your more saturated oils (tallow, palm, coconut, etc.) will not be cracked, leaving you with four layers in the recovery reactor instead of the preferred three. The fourth layer will be where the interface layer between phats/oils and the glycerol/methanol/acidic layer should be. Once complete, the heavily acidified glycerol needs to be neutralized. Best method is to use a potassium methoxide solution, yielding more KxPO4 (K1, K2 and K3). Using methoxide will net a a considerably dryer (less watered) methanol product from your evaporation/distillation recovery than will caustic dissolved in water. Sorry I don't have a stoichiometric + X number for you. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello to all, The short version: 1. To split the glycerine cocktail must one merely neutralize the NaOH/KOH used to produce it or is it necessary to go beyond neutral, to acid? 2. If it must be acidic, if one knows how much H3PO4 it takes to neutralize the mix, can one predict how much more H3PO4 it will take, to get the split? The long version: On 4/10/06 Todd Swearingen, in a post entitled Re: Separating Glycerine suggested that I would need to add 510 - 590 ml of 85% phosphoric acid to each cubie (4.5 gal/17.7L plastic container) of glycerine cocktail to achieve a split. Sure enough, when I added 540 ml (lowest) - 580ml (highest) of 85% H3PO4 to the next cubies of glycerine mix I got separation into mineral precip, crude glycerine, free fatty acids. I've been wondering ever since how he was able to make the calculation/prediction or is he just a good guesser? On 12/02/05 Bioclaire Nederland described how to calculate the amount of H3PO4 to add for separation if one knew the amount of NaOH used to process the WVO that yielded the Glycerine cocktail. (See separating Glycerine separating Glycerine Mistake!). The explanation is based on the equation for neutralizing NaOH using H3PO4. H3PO4 + 3NaOH -- Na3PO4 + 3H2O 1 Mole (98g) of H3PO4 will neutralize 3Moles (120g) NaOH If one knows how much NaOH (or KOH) was used in the batch(es) that produced the Glycerine cocktail it should be possible to calculate how much H3PO4 it would take to neutralize (and split?) the mix. Here is where the problem, and questions come in: The Glycerine mix I was using (4.5 gal/17.7L) containers each came from two 76L batches (152 L WVO, total). The oil I used for these batches titrated at 1.0 - 1.5 g NaOH/L of WVO. (684 - 760 g of NaOH) Adjusting for 85% H3PO4 (115g of 85% H3PO4 would contain the 98g - i.e. 1M.- of H3PO4) and using the density of 85% H3PO4 (~ 1.59g/ml), that I should only need 460ml of the 85% H3PO4 to neutralize the lye used to process the oil. Not all of the lye is in the glycerine cocktail. Some is in the BD. I use 0.20 ml H3PO4/L of oil processed when I do my first wash (15ml/76L batch or 30ml for two batches). This results in wash water very close to neutral suggesting to me that approximately 50 g of
Re: [Biofuel] American diesels
Mike Weaver wrote: Fix it! I had a 300SD - wish I'd kept it You've got a wonderful chance to own a '83 300TD right now! :) mark manchester wrote: Yes Mark; Fix it. A little on the spendy side, but here's the starting point for many things MB deisel; (good source and the books are excellent). http://tinyurl.com/nb84o I love their motto Let us repair it yourself. :) This is our car! 1979 MB 300D. It's amazingly stable, it loves to putter along the hwy all day, which is why I feel I can take it the 6000 km to pick up my daughter. However, the (automatic) transmission does slip a bit. It's been slipping a bit for two years without change. Fix it first? Or somewhere in Moose Jaw, that's the question. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 08:06:19 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] American diesels Your best bet for a small US diesel car is a used MB 300D Keith Addison wrote: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html Diesel cars in the US More or less complete I think. Best Keith What year was it made? Mike McGinness Marty Phee wrote: My Jeep liberty has a 2.7L diesel. Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: Mainly because there are very few small diesel power cars. The standard is the 4000lb+ trucks with V8 Cummins Turbo diesels. Im not sure there is a 4 cylinder US made diesel in the 2L range. Mark *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Jan Warnqvist *Sent:* Thursday, May 18, 2006 12:46 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* [Biofuel] American diesels Hello everybody in the Americas! I have one question for you concerning BD and the cars consuming it. It seems as if you all are prefering European cars for fueling BD instead of American diesels. Is that true, and in this case why? Arn´t GM:s diesels good for BD ? Jan Warnqvist ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
Keith Addison wrote: I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. Have you considered a very easy way of stopping this? Just compile a pdf of all the information and put it up on ebay as a buy it now for something like $0.01. Offer it via email and donate the proceeds to a charity! This would stop people profiting off of other peoples concerns for the environment. Only problem is who would distribute it! Maybe you could put on your paypal preferences a link to where it can be downloaded? when someone buys it they will recieve the invoive and have the link there. Or why not place a number of ads on ebay quoting the site where it can be downloaded free? Noone needs to buy the item because the info is given away freely. I would happily list the item is someone wants to generate a pdf file. Chris.. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
Hi Keith...and List...thank you. I had read, but forgotten (shame on me), the Credo before I asked to join. It gave me the confidence to ask to join. Wonderful to be reminded of, wake up with and read this morning. Is that sunshine I see peaking through the clouds?!!! Getting ready to Look on the Bright Side of LIFE!!! Mike DuPree Hey Mike, you just made my day. Not only it helped but you read it before. :-) You mean that crazy song actually works?? LOL! This thread has covered a lot of ground from where it started to where it is now. Interesting. Interesting last few posts from you too, and nicely put, both sides of the coin, the bright and the dark. One side of a coin doesn't buy you much, does it, you have to use the whole coin. Namaste. Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Mike - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]markmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mark manchester To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.orgmai lto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Jesse...thanks for writing. You wrote: This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. A sign of the times??? You wrote: Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? I wasn't thinking, at least about what response I might get. I felt frustrated, perhaps mostly by my own illusions. You wrote: How can anyone respond to this. One way is how you have responded. You wrote: No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. It depends on the question. For me in my post the question deals with how do I personally deal with the madness on the planet that appears to be becoming more so everyday. Biodiesel is a way. And I'm excited to see it develop. But I feel overwhelmed by something much bigger. I could call it Big Energy, Big Gov't. Big whatever. But I'm afraid it has something more to do with me than with anything outside of me. But then it's not just me...it's the sheer size and weight of humanity on the planet (and growing growing growing). Plenty of room to spare, no room for dogs in the manger. So I could do as you said: Leave!! But you and I both know it isn't that simple. For you it is your reasons. For me, I'll try to explain in answer to your question: What are you there for? Jesse I've thought about writing to Keith personally and asking him to remove me from the List since my original intention of joining the List has changed. You're welcome to change your intentions. It's not like a contract you're not allowed to break or something. A lot of people like the diversity of the list. There are these message snippets from various members at the website list subscription section, for instance: - I came to the list strictly interested in getting my biodiesel project off the ground. Following the various postings I have discovered that I see the world as if from the bottom of a well. The view is expanding ever so slightly, ever so slowly. Thanks to all. - The Biofuel list has awakened me to many ways I can directly help make a difference. The knowledge I have gained from reading the list in a few short months has encouraged me to try again. - I benefit very much personally from the list, and I have yet to make one drop of biofuel! But the insights that I get from the list are amazing. - I like the global view. It's good to have your beliefs challenged. - This list has proven to me how little I know, so many times. The only time I'd remove you is if your intentions changed to those of a dog in the manger and you couldn't be reasoned with. Otherwise, if you want out, you'd have to do it yourself, it's none of my business. I guess this is the background to the way the list runs, have a look, it might hearten you: http://journeytoforever.org/community.html#credohttp://journeytofore ver.org/community.html#credo I came here with the intention of learning how to make biodiesel and having a support group while doing so. I have since decided for a multitude of reasons to not go this path. But the List, as you know, is about more than just biodiesel. It is...hmm...well, I guess that depends on who you are and I am and any one of us is and especially who Keith lets it be. It has a mind of its own. I'm just the skivvy. So I haven't written to Keith, because for me, what I have observed and come to look for in my email, is someone else trying, just like me, to survive the madness...not to Leave!!...but to Live!!! Or maybe I misjudged what I have been reading. I don't think so.
Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD
Tom, I'm no expert but I think you have pegged it. A stir wash will really clean a batch but it does take some time for it to clarify and when it does it often will leave a little white watery stuff at the bottom (very little that is) enough to make you wonder about microbes. Say do you use an oil fired heater to burn it in? Jim Thomas Kelly wrote: Jim, I stir wash. My final wash is often crystal clear. My oil is very good/dry to start. I normally get very little soap formation. My BD doesn't get to sit around long now that I use it to heat my house and for domestic hot water as well as in my car - '82 Mercedes 300SD. Tom - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD Thanks Tom, I wonder what is your final wash water like and how do you mix it i.e. stir, bubble etc? I was having some of the same trouble because I was not doing my dehydration correctly and as a result suspended water would drop out with soaps and cause this same sort of problem. A good solar heater/dehydrator is good, but in winter I have to heat it till it is clear then I drain the bottom out. This greatly reduces the problem. PS I still use an antioxidant/biocide if I am storing it very long. Jim Thomas Kelly wrote: In a post (see below) dated 4/18/06 I was concerned that I had microbial contamination in my last two batches of BD. I have been unable to reproduce the results of an experiment (see Post below) and now believe that the whispy sediment was a soap. After several uneventful batches I got a similar whispy sediment in a batch in which I used recovered methanol that I have reason to believe had water in it. (Water in Recovered Methanol 4/28/06) Checking my notes ( I keep notes on each of my batches ... including a running inventory on gal used from methanol barrel) t he mysterious whispy sediment was first produced when I used methanol from the bottom of a barrel ... the last two batches from a 55 gal barrel of methanol. Water??? I suspect that the mysterious whispy sediment is more likely a soap rather than a microbe. Solution: I drain two+ gallons of wash water below the standpipe in the tank (Had been going only 1 gal. or so). Any soaps that refused to wash out stay in the tank along w about 2+ gal. of washed BD. Every 3, 4, or 5 batches I drain the tank, recover the BD and water some plants w. the clear final washwater. No more problems Tom - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:44 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Microbes in BD Hello All, I suspect I have microbes in my recent batches of BD. After washing, I drained the BD and allowed it to settle. After a few days I noticed a whispy sediment on the bottom of the containers of fuel. I gave the batch another wash and cleaned my 5 gal. settling containers. The wash water was clear, but again the whispy sediment appeared after a few days. My next batch seemed to wash very well, but again, a whispy sediment can be observed after the BD is drained and allowed to settle. I brought a sample of the sediment to a local high school. We prepared a stained slide and observed a multitude of tiny uniformly-shaped spheres at 400X. I put 1 drop of the sediment in a glass jar w. 250ml of clear, uncontaminated BD and put 250ml of the same clear BD in an identical glass jar (control). Less than 24 hrs. later the innoculated jar is slightly cloudy w. a very fine sediment on the bottom and the control jar continues to be clear. - I started using WVO that includes some tallow. I noticed a post from JJN on 3/17/06 Re: Tallow: I am treating all my bio with both an anti fungal and anti oxidant treatment since I use tallow alot. 1. Any thoughts/similar experience? 2. If it's microbes of some sort, should I treat the fuel w. a diesel anti-microbial and then filter it? Will a 10 micron filter remove these critters? 3 . If microbes are present, do I have to be concerned w. metabolic byproducts screwing up the fuel? 4. If not microbes, what's the whispy stuff? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
Hi Chris, and all who replied, thankyou... Keith Addison wrote: I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. Have you considered a very easy way of stopping this? Just compile a pdf of all the information and put it up on ebay as a buy it now for something like $0.01. Offer it via email and donate the proceeds to a charity! This would stop people profiting off of other peoples concerns for the environment. Only problem is who would distribute it! Maybe you could put on your paypal preferences a link to where it can be downloaded? when someone buys it they will recieve the invoive and have the link there. Or why not place a number of ads on ebay quoting the site where it can be downloaded free? Noone needs to buy the item because the info is given away freely. I would happily list the item is someone wants to generate a pdf file. Chris.. ... but I don't really want to stop it. It's not bothering us. The main reason I posted it is in case any other list members have resources that the guy's selling. It happens all the time, I just got another complaint about someone called velvet_fist doing the same thing with JtF stuff at eBay. I think it's a general Internet phenomenon, it won't go away even if the individuals responsible are stopped. Like crime. It's not the only phenomenon at work though, what's the overall effect? Maybe I just have a slightly different attitude to pests. Everything's organically grown round here, even websites and mailing lists, and fighting pests isn't the best way to do it. They're not pests unless they do you damage. If they are doing you damage it's not an eradication problem, it's a management problem, and in effect the pests are telling you where the problem lies. Without them you wouldn't know it. Maybe that all sounds a little idealistic, but it works. Not only that, nothing else works. Thanks! Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Governments role in society.
Since I am USA born and raised, I've only been to Canada 5 times I have a limited experience in life with what others experience concerning Government and its role in ones daily life. One of the things I like about this list is the variety of international differences shared every so often. A question has come to mind pondering what is the role a government should play in life and in what ways should not interfere. If I was going to start a new Country I came up with a list of things that I would want it to do. Since this list is mine, it is narrow and one sided, but I would love to hear what others think so I may expand my thinking on these things. My List: 1) Freedom of speech. 2) Separation of Church and State combined with Freedom of Religion (I think this is in name only in the USA currently but at least we have a choice still). 3) The right to keep and bare arms. ( I eat what I kill and I kill my meat with a gun or bow this may offend but I live by ways as old as dirt - may they be legal). 4) All Funding for the expenses of government to come from Business and Corporation only. (this means it would be unlawfully to tax the populace) 5) Government through representation of the people by the people. 6) No private land ownership, however a system that puts people on the land for prosperity in agriculture through ley and organic means. 7) No private ownership of wildlife. Subsistence hunting allowed when needed. 8) ? Help! Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
LOL...amen brother...have to use the whole coin. The List is helping me do so. I've also printed out and am keeping in front of the Credo for JtF. Also keeping on my desktop a shortcut to the words of the song and the song itself. Ok...so now more fatheadedness...what is Namaste? Also, I want to be sure Jason and Weaver read my post to Jesse that included my excitement about the three of us either living near or having ties near where each of us live. Any suggestions? Thanks. Mike D - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Keith...and List...thank you. I had read, but forgotten (shame on me), the Credo before I asked to join. It gave me the confidence to ask to join. Wonderful to be reminded of, wake up with and read this morning. Is that sunshine I see peaking through the clouds?!!! Getting ready to Look on the Bright Side of LIFE!!! Mike DuPree Hey Mike, you just made my day. Not only it helped but you read it before. :-) You mean that crazy song actually works?? LOL! This thread has covered a lot of ground from where it started to where it is now. Interesting. Interesting last few posts from you too, and nicely put, both sides of the coin, the bright and the dark. One side of a coin doesn't buy you much, does it, you have to use the whole coin. Namaste. Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Mike - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]markmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mark manchester To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.orgmai lto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Jesse...thanks for writing. You wrote: This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. A sign of the times??? You wrote: Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? I wasn't thinking, at least about what response I might get. I felt frustrated, perhaps mostly by my own illusions. You wrote: How can anyone respond to this. One way is how you have responded. You wrote: No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. It depends on the question. For me in my post the question deals with how do I personally deal with the madness on the planet that appears to be becoming more so everyday. Biodiesel is a way. And I'm excited to see it develop. But I feel overwhelmed by something much bigger. I could call it Big Energy, Big Gov't. Big whatever. But I'm afraid it has something more to do with me than with anything outside of me. But then it's not just me...it's the sheer size and weight of humanity on the planet (and growing growing growing). Plenty of room to spare, no room for dogs in the manger. So I could do as you said: Leave!! But you and I both know it isn't that simple. For you it is your reasons. For me, I'll try to explain in answer to your question: What are you there for? Jesse I've thought about writing to Keith personally and asking him to remove me from the List since my original intention of joining the List has changed. You're welcome to change your intentions. It's not like a contract you're not allowed to break or something. A lot of people like the diversity of the list. There are these message snippets from various members at the website list subscription section, for instance: - I came to the list strictly interested in getting my biodiesel project off the ground. Following the various postings I have discovered that I see the world as if from the bottom of a well. The view is expanding ever so slightly, ever so slowly. Thanks to all. - The Biofuel list has awakened me to many ways I can directly help make a difference. The knowledge I have gained from reading the list in a few short months has encouraged me to try again. - I benefit very much personally from the list, and I have yet to make one drop of biofuel! But the insights that I get from the list are amazing. - I like the global view. It's good to have your beliefs challenged. - This list has proven to me how little I know, so many times. The only time I'd remove you is if your intentions changed to those of a dog in the manger and you couldn't be reasoned with. Otherwise, if you want out, you'd have to do it yourself, it's none of my business. I guess this is the background to the way the list runs, have a look, it might hearten you: http://journeytoforever.org/community.html#credohttp://journeytofore
Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
Just to add, I wouldn't want anybody to generate any pdf files from the material at JtF, whether for sale or for non-sale or for anything. JtF is not public property, and there's not much about it that's haphazard and unplanned. It's not Biofuel list property either. It's not because we haven't considered it that pdf's and print versions are not for sale and not available. Different media of delivery have different effects, and the differences are important even if not very many people notice it. You use the right ones for the job. We'd perhaps use pdf's for a different job, but then it wouldn't just be website material dumped into Acrobat as-is, it would mean a complete makeover, of a large amount of material. Then again, obviously we'd make them available for download at the JtF website, that's where people who want the information go anyway. I wouldn't consider changing our strategy on this (nor anything) for the sake of a few mosquitoes biting people at ebay, not even if they were biting us too (but they're not biting us). JtF isn't broken, please don't fix it. Thanks again for all the suggestions. Best Keith Hi Chris, and all who replied, thankyou... Keith Addison wrote: I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. Have you considered a very easy way of stopping this? Just compile a pdf of all the information and put it up on ebay as a buy it now for something like $0.01. Offer it via email and donate the proceeds to a charity! This would stop people profiting off of other peoples concerns for the environment. Only problem is who would distribute it! Maybe you could put on your paypal preferences a link to where it can be downloaded? when someone buys it they will recieve the invoive and have the link there. Or why not place a number of ads on ebay quoting the site where it can be downloaded free? Noone needs to buy the item because the info is given away freely. I would happily list the item is someone wants to generate a pdf file. Chris.. ... but I don't really want to stop it. It's not bothering us. The main reason I posted it is in case any other list members have resources that the guy's selling. It happens all the time, I just got another complaint about someone called velvet_fist doing the same thing with JtF stuff at eBay. I think it's a general Internet phenomenon, it won't go away even if the individuals responsible are stopped. Like crime. It's not the only phenomenon at work though, what's the overall effect? Maybe I just have a slightly different attitude to pests. Everything's organically grown round here, even websites and mailing lists, and fighting pests isn't the best way to do it. They're not pests unless they do you damage. If they are doing you damage it's not an eradication problem, it's a management problem, and in effect the pests are telling you where the problem lies. Without them you wouldn't know it. Maybe that all sounds a little idealistic, but it works. Not only that, nothing else works. Thanks! Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
LOL...amen brother...have to use the whole coin. The List is helping me do so. I've also printed out and am keeping in front of the Credo for JtF. Also keeping on my desktop a shortcut to the words of the song and the song itself. Golly, Mike. I do hope it helps. Ok...so now more fatheadedness...what is Namaste? Literally I bow to you. Other people say it here too. I've said O kage samade here a couple of times. It's because smileys don't do Japanese bows. It means Thankyou, a certain kind of thankyou, literally: In your shadow I thrive. I have some reservations about the following, on Namaste. For one thing, I don't think India or the East have a sole franchise on spiritual wisdom any more than the West has a sole franchise on crass materialism. But it explains what Namaste means. Its use seems to be spreading on the Internet, and elsewhere. A useful addition, IMHO. Best Keith Copyright 1993 by Himalayan Academy. Shake hands and come out fighting. It's the referee's final counsel to two pugilists about to beat each other's brains out with clenched fists. Even outside the ring, a handshake can be a little off-putting. When one returns to the West from an extended sojourn in Bharat or elsewhere in Asia, the hand suddenly thrust forward can seem more ominous than friendly, especially if the hand offered is that of a stranger. Of course, one soon acclimates and the menacing aspect of this salutation subsides. Perhaps that moment of intimidation derives from the history of the handshake. According to one anthropologist, the handshake evolved in medieval Europe, during the times of knights. It seems not all were laudable Lancelots or gallant Gallahads. More than a few would approach opponents with concealed weapons and when within striking distance do the needful, driving dagger or striking sword into the unguarded paladin. To fend off the fear of a foe's foul foil, knights took to offering their open and visibly empty hand to each other. It was a kind of surety, a gesture of trust which said, See, I am unarmed, so you may safely let me approach. As the story goes, soon the gesture itself took on meaning and the less noble, less lethal man on the street adopted the handshake as the proper way to greet others. In much of the world today, people do not shake hands when they meet. They may hug formally or kiss one another on the cheek, as in eastern Europe and Arab states. They may bow softly, eyes turned to the ground, as in Japan and China. The Hawaiian greeting, termed honi, consists of placing the nostril gently beside that of the person greeted, a kind of sharing of breath, which is life and Pran(a). For, Hindu(s), of course, the greeting of choice is Namaste, the two hands pressed together and held near the heart with the head gently bowed as one says, Namaste. Thus it is both a spoken greeting and a gesture, a Mantr(a) and a Mudr(a). The prayerful hand position is a Mudr(a) called Anjali, from the root Anj, to adorn, honor, celebrate or anoint. The hands held in union signify the oneness of an apparently dual cosmos, the bringing together of spirit and matter, or the self meeting the Self. It has been said that the right hand represents the higher nature or that which is divine in us, while the left hand represents the lower, worldly nature. In Sanskrit Namas means, bow, obeisance, reverential salutation. It comes from the root Nam, which carries meanings of bending, bowing, humbly submitting and becoming silent. Te means to you. Thus namaste means I bow to you. the act of greeting is called Namaskaram, Namaskara and Namaskar in the varied languages of the subcontinent. Namaste has become a veritable icon of what is Bharatiye. Indeed, there must be a Bharatiye law which requires every travel brochure. calendar and poster to include an image of someone with palms pressed together, conveying to the world Bharat's hospitality, spirituality and graceful consciousness. You knew all that, of course, but perhaps you did not know that there can be subtle ways of enhancing the gesture, as in the West one might shake another's hand too strongly to impress and overpower them or too briefly, indicating the withholding of genuine welcome. In the case of Namaste, a deeper veneration is sometimes expressed by bringing the fingers of the clasped palms to the forehead, where they touch the brow, the site of the mystic Third Eye. A third form of namaste brings the palms completely above the head, a gesture said to focus consciousness in the subtle space just above the Brahma-randhra, the aperture in the Crown Chakr(a). This form is so full of reverence it is reserved for the Almighty and the holiest of Sat Guru(s). It is always interesting,
Re: [Biofuel] American diesels
Thanks, Chip! I guess! Not our model but a cool site and hilarious logo. Jesse From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 13:14:52 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] American diesels Mike Weaver wrote: Fix it! I had a 300SD - wish I'd kept it You've got a wonderful chance to own a '83 300TD right now! :) mark manchester wrote: Yes Mark; Fix it. A little on the spendy side, but here's the starting point for many things MB deisel; (good source and the books are excellent). http://tinyurl.com/nb84o I love their motto Let us repair it yourself. :) This is our car! 1979 MB 300D. It's amazingly stable, it loves to putter along the hwy all day, which is why I feel I can take it the 6000 km to pick up my daughter. However, the (automatic) transmission does slip a bit. It's been slipping a bit for two years without change. Fix it first? Or somewhere in Moose Jaw, that's the question. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 08:06:19 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] American diesels Your best bet for a small US diesel car is a used MB 300D ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cars runs on water and Other Nonsense
Title: Re: [Biofuel] Cars runs on water and Other Nonsense From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 11:29:15 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cars runs on water and Other Nonsense Sorry, for got to include subject...too happy That's me all over. Cheers, Jesse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD
Jim, Yeah, I'm putting my fear of microbes to rest. I have what is often called a boiler. The oil fired burner heats water that is circulated through baseboard heaters. There is a coil in the furnace that heats water for domestic use. I used BD30 through the past winter and got the thing to run on BD100 a couple of months ago. Have played w. adding FFAs from cracked Glyc. cocktail to the BD. It's part of the plan, but right now I'm a bit distracted from the basement by beautiful weather and outdoor work. Best wishes, keep up the good work. Quite a few of us are paying attention. Tom - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD Tom, I'm no expert but I think you have pegged it. A stir wash will really clean a batch but it does take some time for it to clarify and when it does it often will leave a little white watery stuff at the bottom (very little that is) enough to make you wonder about microbes. Say do you use an oil fired heater to burn it in? Jim Thomas Kelly wrote: Jim, I stir wash. My final wash is often crystal clear. My oil is very good/dry to start. I normally get very little soap formation. My BD doesn't get to sit around long now that I use it to heat my house and for domestic hot water as well as in my car - '82 Mercedes 300SD. Tom - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Microbes in BD Thanks Tom, I wonder what is your final wash water like and how do you mix it i.e. stir, bubble etc? I was having some of the same trouble because I was not doing my dehydration correctly and as a result suspended water would drop out with soaps and cause this same sort of problem. A good solar heater/dehydrator is good, but in winter I have to heat it till it is clear then I drain the bottom out. This greatly reduces the problem. PS I still use an antioxidant/biocide if I am storing it very long. Jim Thomas Kelly wrote: In a post (see below) dated 4/18/06 I was concerned that I had microbial contamination in my last two batches of BD. I have been unable to reproduce the results of an experiment (see Post below) and now believe that the whispy sediment was a soap. After several uneventful batches I got a similar whispy sediment in a batch in which I used recovered methanol that I have reason to believe had water in it. (Water in Recovered Methanol 4/28/06) Checking my notes ( I keep notes on each of my batches ... including a running inventory on gal used from methanol barrel) t he mysterious whispy sediment was first produced when I used methanol from the bottom of a barrel ... the last two batches from a 55 gal barrel of methanol. Water??? I suspect that the mysterious whispy sediment is more likely a soap rather than a microbe. Solution: I drain two+ gallons of wash water below the standpipe in the tank (Had been going only 1 gal. or so). Any soaps that refused to wash out stay in the tank along w about 2+ gal. of washed BD. Every 3, 4, or 5 batches I drain the tank, recover the BD and water some plants w. the clear final washwater. No more problems Tom - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:44 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Microbes in BD Hello All, I suspect I have microbes in my recent batches of BD. After washing, I drained the BD and allowed it to settle. After a few days I noticed a whispy sediment on the bottom of the containers of fuel. I gave the batch another wash and cleaned my 5 gal. settling containers. The wash water was clear, but again the whispy sediment appeared after a few days. My next batch seemed to wash very well, but again, a whispy sediment can be observed after the BD is drained and allowed to settle. I brought a sample of the sediment to a local high school. We prepared a stained slide and observed a multitude of tiny uniformly-shaped spheres at 400X. I put 1 drop of the sediment in a glass jar w. 250ml of clear, uncontaminated BD and put 250ml of the same clear BD in an identical glass jar (control). Less than 24 hrs. later the innoculated jar is slightly cloudy w. a very fine sediment on the bottom and the control jar continues to be clear. - I started using WVO that includes some tallow. I noticed a post from JJN on 3/17/06 Re: Tallow: I am treating all my bio with both an anti fungal and anti oxidant treatment since I use tallow alot. 1. Any thoughts/similar experience? 2. If
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
aye, i read your post, and i live between Gladstone and NKC. not exactly sure what township this is, but i rent, so land taxes arent a problem. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense LOL...amen brother...have to use the whole coin. The List is helping me do so. I've also printed out and am keeping in front of the Credo for JtF. Also keeping on my desktop a shortcut to the words of the song and the song itself. Ok...so now more fatheadedness...what is Namaste? Also, I want to be sure Jason and Weaver read my post to Jesse that included my excitement about the three of us either living near or having ties near where each of us live. Any suggestions? Thanks. Mike D - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Keith...and List...thank you. I had read, but forgotten (shame on me), the Credo before I asked to join. It gave me the confidence to ask to join. Wonderful to be reminded of, wake up with and read this morning. Is that sunshine I see peaking through the clouds?!!! Getting ready to Look on the Bright Side of LIFE!!! Mike DuPree Hey Mike, you just made my day. Not only it helped but you read it before. :-) You mean that crazy song actually works?? LOL! This thread has covered a lot of ground from where it started to where it is now. Interesting. Interesting last few posts from you too, and nicely put, both sides of the coin, the bright and the dark. One side of a coin doesn't buy you much, does it, you have to use the whole coin. Namaste. Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Mike - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]markmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mark manchester To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.orgmai lto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Jesse...thanks for writing. You wrote: This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. A sign of the times??? You wrote: Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? I wasn't thinking, at least about what response I might get. I felt frustrated, perhaps mostly by my own illusions. You wrote: How can anyone respond to this. One way is how you have responded. You wrote: No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. It depends on the question. For me in my post the question deals with how do I personally deal with the madness on the planet that appears to be becoming more so everyday. Biodiesel is a way. And I'm excited to see it develop. But I feel overwhelmed by something much bigger. I could call it Big Energy, Big Gov't. Big whatever. But I'm afraid it has something more to do with me than with anything outside of me. But then it's not just me...it's the sheer size and weight of humanity on the planet (and growing growing growing). Plenty of room to spare, no room for dogs in the manger. So I could do as you said: Leave!! But you and I both know it isn't that simple. For you it is your reasons. For me, I'll try to explain in answer to your question: What are you there for? Jesse I've thought about writing to Keith personally and asking him to remove me from the List since my original intention of joining the List has changed. You're welcome to change your intentions. It's not like a contract you're not allowed to break or something. A lot of people like the diversity of the list. There are these message snippets from various members at the website list subscription section, for instance: - I came to the list strictly interested in getting my biodiesel project off the ground. Following the various postings I have discovered that I see the world as if from the bottom of a well. The view is expanding ever so slightly, ever so slowly. Thanks to all. - The Biofuel list has awakened me to many ways I can directly help make a difference. The knowledge I have gained from reading the list in a few short months has encouraged me to try again. - I benefit very much personally from the list, and I have yet to make one drop of biofuel! But the insights that I get from the list are amazing. - I like the global view. It's good to have your beliefs challenged. - This list has proven to me how little I know, so many times. The only time I'd remove you is if your intentions changed
Re: [Biofuel] Conversion tyo diesel Pt 1
Hey there: Mi name is Bruno.I am just wondering;after Your extended answer on Jeep,could you tell me if you have any expirience on Renault.I just bought Renault Laguna 1.9DTI 1999.Are there any data on should or should I not use BD in this car.I am making my BD since last Oktober and it seems that I have quite good quality :I would be very greatfull for your or anyones ansver on the subject. lres1 pravi: Jonathan, You asked I am a newbe to this. However, will this work on a Jeep YJ??? To start, locate a 2.8 NA Toyota engine with its bellhousing and clutch plates (fan to clutch engine.) If you can not verify the distance the engine has covered or the hours it has run then replace the timing belt, timing belt tensionersand check the injector nozzles to see if they are flat faced or burnt (pitted). If pitted replace the injector nozzles. Take the gearbox and transfer box from the vehicle and place it on blocks so it sits in its correct position, as though it was still mounted in the vehicle (the angles need to be correct longitudinally and across the box.) At this stage the Bell housing should still be on the removed gearbox. There are two types of clutch operating systems fitted to the YJ.One is an internal unit- constructed thrust bearing and slave cylinder, the other is a separate clutch slave cylinder that fits through from the back of the bellhousing and presses onto a clutch fork. This later is very important to get the distances correct in the movement of the fork type. You will need to measure the exact distance from the front face of the gearbox to the center of travel position on the clutch fork along the thrust bearing slide shaft. Don't measure from the bellhousing as this will be discarded. Removethe bellhousing off the Toyota engine. Placethe front end of the bellhousingover a 3/4 inch plate of steel and with a marker pen mark all the holes and the inside and outside of the bellhousing onto the plate. Pay particular attention to the locatingdowels and the starter motor mount holes. Remove the bellhousing from the YJ gearbox. Place the back end of the bellhousing from the YJ onto a 3/4 inch plate and mark out the plate with a marker pen making sure to get locating dowels in their correct position. Take the clutch plate and locate one with a spline that fits the YJ spigot shaft and the same diameter friction area as the original from the Toyota engine. If you can't find one no worries strip the clutch plate and fit the Jeep center into a new Toyota plate and replace the rivets. With a pin punch mark out the inside and outside of the two plates. Also pin punch all the holes. Note; some of the holes in the copy of the engine plate will need to be Tapped/threaded and one for the clutch fork pivot in the gear box housing will need to be tapped/threaded. Once pilot holes are drilled in both plates remember which holes need to be what size and which need threads tapped into them. Cut out both plates with a cutting torch and with a small grinder clean all surfaces. Drill all the holes to the correct sizes and thread those holes needing threads. Remove the spigot bearing from the center of the crank shaft on the Toyota engine and machineup a bronze bush that is firm in the crankshaft and slightly loose on the end of the spigot shaft. Fit the bush to the Toyota crankshaft. (A bush is okay as the Nissans use a bush and so do many other vehicles. The needle rollers that come out are not so easy to locate, hence the bush option. Assemble the clutch and pressure plate onto the Toyota engine, making sure that the spigot shaft slides in with ease. Fit one plate to the rear of the engine and one to the front of the gearbox. Keep the gearbox as it was blocked up on wood chocks or some such so that it sits well off the ground but in the exact angles and position it would when in the YJ. Slide the engine back onto the spigot shaft making sure that the distance that you measured to the center of the clutch fork from the face of the gearbox is where the clutch pressure plate rests on the clutch thrust bearing. Check that all is aligned with all bolts in place and the rear engine plate you have made parallel to the front gearbox plate you have made. Also the engine back where the clutch forkwas measured to be in the center of its travel and the engine not leaning to either side. That is no lean on the engine. Make sure at this stage that the engine and gearbox are firmly chocked in this position. With 1inch by 1/8 inch flat bar cut lengths to go under the engine bolts on the plate you made for the engineand extend to the outer rim of the gearbox plate you made. That is the flat bar should not be bent but go straight from just under a bolt on the engine plate to the outer area of the gearbox plate. Put one bar at the top, cut another for the correct length to fit at 90 degrees from the top bar and then the same for
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
Thanks Keith...very respectful. Thank you. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense LOL...amen brother...have to use the whole coin. The List is helping me do so. I've also printed out and am keeping in front of the Credo for JtF. Also keeping on my desktop a shortcut to the words of the song and the song itself. Golly, Mike. I do hope it helps. Ok...so now more fatheadedness...what is Namaste? Literally I bow to you. Other people say it here too. I've said O kage samade here a couple of times. It's because smileys don't do Japanese bows. It means Thankyou, a certain kind of thankyou, literally: In your shadow I thrive. I have some reservations about the following, on Namaste. For one thing, I don't think India or the East have a sole franchise on spiritual wisdom any more than the West has a sole franchise on crass materialism. But it explains what Namaste means. Its use seems to be spreading on the Internet, and elsewhere. A useful addition, IMHO. Best Keith Copyright 1993 by Himalayan Academy. Shake hands and come out fighting. It's the referee's final counsel to two pugilists about to beat each other's brains out with clenched fists. Even outside the ring, a handshake can be a little off-putting. When one returns to the West from an extended sojourn in Bharat or elsewhere in Asia, the hand suddenly thrust forward can seem more ominous than friendly, especially if the hand offered is that of a stranger. Of course, one soon acclimates and the menacing aspect of this salutation subsides. Perhaps that moment of intimidation derives from the history of the handshake. According to one anthropologist, the handshake evolved in medieval Europe, during the times of knights. It seems not all were laudable Lancelots or gallant Gallahads. More than a few would approach opponents with concealed weapons and when within striking distance do the needful, driving dagger or striking sword into the unguarded paladin. To fend off the fear of a foe's foul foil, knights took to offering their open and visibly empty hand to each other. It was a kind of surety, a gesture of trust which said, See, I am unarmed, so you may safely let me approach. As the story goes, soon the gesture itself took on meaning and the less noble, less lethal man on the street adopted the handshake as the proper way to greet others. In much of the world today, people do not shake hands when they meet. They may hug formally or kiss one another on the cheek, as in eastern Europe and Arab states. They may bow softly, eyes turned to the ground, as in Japan and China. The Hawaiian greeting, termed honi, consists of placing the nostril gently beside that of the person greeted, a kind of sharing of breath, which is life and Pran(a). For, Hindu(s), of course, the greeting of choice is Namaste, the two hands pressed together and held near the heart with the head gently bowed as one says, Namaste. Thus it is both a spoken greeting and a gesture, a Mantr(a) and a Mudr(a). The prayerful hand position is a Mudr(a) called Anjali, from the root Anj, to adorn, honor, celebrate or anoint. The hands held in union signify the oneness of an apparently dual cosmos, the bringing together of spirit and matter, or the self meeting the Self. It has been said that the right hand represents the higher nature or that which is divine in us, while the left hand represents the lower, worldly nature. In Sanskrit Namas means, bow, obeisance, reverential salutation. It comes from the root Nam, which carries meanings of bending, bowing, humbly submitting and becoming silent. Te means to you. Thus namaste means I bow to you. the act of greeting is called Namaskaram, Namaskara and Namaskar in the varied languages of the subcontinent. Namaste has become a veritable icon of what is Bharatiye. Indeed, there must be a Bharatiye law which requires every travel brochure. calendar and poster to include an image of someone with palms pressed together, conveying to the world Bharat's hospitality, spirituality and graceful consciousness. You knew all that, of course, but perhaps you did not know that there can be subtle ways of enhancing the gesture, as in the West one might shake another's hand too strongly to impress and overpower them or too briefly, indicating the withholding of genuine welcome. In the case of Namaste, a deeper veneration is sometimes expressed by bringing the fingers of the clasped palms to the forehead, where they touch the brow, the site of the mystic Third Eye. A third form of namaste brings the palms completely above the head,
Re: [Biofuel] Cars runs on water and Other Nonsense
Title: Re: [Biofuel] Cars runs on water and Other Nonsense Cheers to you too, Jesse. Thank you. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: mark manchester To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cars runs on water and Other Nonsense From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgDate: Sun, 21 May 2006 11:29:15 -0500To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Cars runs on water and Other Nonsense Sorry, for got to include subject...too happyThat's me all over. Cheers, Jesse ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense
Hi Jason and Katie...thanks for writing. Are you new to the area? Haven't ever heard anyone talk about their "township" or "land taxes." Have lived in the area pretty much all of my life, except for brief time in England in the service and many years later for a couple of years in Charlotte, North Carolina. Anyway, good to know JtF folks close by. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense aye, i read your post, and i live between Gladstone and NKC. not exactly sure what township this is, but i rent, so land taxes arent a problem. - Original Message - From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense LOL...amen brother...have to use the whole coin. The List is helping me do so. I've also printed out and am keeping in front of the Credo for JtF. Also keeping on my desktop a shortcut to the words of the song and the song itself. Ok...so now more fatheadedness...what is "Namaste"? Also, I want to be sure Jason and Weaver read my post to Jesse that included my excitement about the three of us either living near or having ties near where each of us live. Any suggestions? Thanks. Mike D - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Keith...and List...thank you. I had read, but forgotten (shameon me), the Credo before I asked to join. It gave me the confidenceto ask to join. Wonderful to be reminded of, wake up with and readthis morning. Is that sunshine I see peaking through the clouds?!!!Getting ready to Look on the Bright Side of LIFE!!! Mike DuPree Hey Mike, you just made my day. Not only it helped but you read it before. :-) You mean that crazy song actually works?? LOL! This thread has covered a lot of ground from where it started to where it is now. Interesting. Interesting last few posts from you too, and nicely put, both sides of the coin, the bright and the dark. One side of a coin doesn't buy you much, does it, you have to use the whole coin. Namaste. Keith- Original Message -From: "Keith Addison"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:38 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Mike - Original Message - From:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]markmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]markmanchester To:mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.orgmailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water and Other Nonsense Hi Jesse...thanks for writing. You wrote: This is surely the most depressing post I've ever seen. A sign of the times??? You wrote: Mike! What sort of response were you thinking you'd get? I wasn't thinking, at least about what response I might get. I felt frustrated, perhaps mostly by my own illusions. You wrote: How can anyone respond to this. One way is how you have responded. You wrote: No dream no agriculture no biodiesel no... simple answer. It depends on the question. For me in my post the question deals with how do I personally deal with the madness on the planet that appears to be becoming more so everyday. Biodiesel is a way. And I'm excited to see it develop. But I feel overwhelmed by something much bigger. I could call it Big Energy, Big Gov't. Big whatever. But I'm afraid it has something more to do with me than with anything outside of me. But then it's not just me...it's the sheer size and weight of humanity on the planet (and growing growing growing). Plenty of room to spare, no room for dogs in the manger. So I could do as you said: Leave!! But you and I both know it isn't that simple. For you it is your reasons. For me, I'll try to explain in answer to your question: What are you there for? Jesse I've thought about writing to Keith personally and asking him to remove me from the List since my original intention of joining the List has changed. You're welcome to change your intentions. It's not like a contract you're not allowed to break or something. A lot of people like the diversity of the list. There are these message snippets from various members at the website list subscription section, for instance: - "I came to the list strictly interested in getting my biodiesel project off the ground. Following the various postings I have discovered that I see the world as if from the bottom of a well. The view is expanding ever so slightly, ever so slowly. Thanks to all." - "The Biofuel
[Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
This is a joke...Right? I mean, surely ExxonMobil doesn't think that we are ALL THIS DUMB, RIGHT? The (surreal) videos of the 2 commercials: http://streams.cei.org/ Backed by ExxonMobil. Denialists with a vested interest. Resources: About CEI:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_Enterprise_Institute http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Competitive_Enterprise_Institute Reuters: http://tinyurl.com/jfdcb -- Thanks, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
good gods! these people are demented to say the least. theres spin, and then theres the tilt-a-whirl...and i gotta say this no longer qualifies as simple spin. - Original Message - From: Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS This is a joke...Right? I mean, surely ExxonMobil doesn't think that we are ALL THIS DUMB, RIGHT? The (surreal) videos of the 2 commercials: http://streams.cei.org/ Backed by ExxonMobil. Denialists with a vested interest. Resources: About CEI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_Enterprise_Institute http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Competitive_Enterprise_Institute Reuters: http://tinyurl.com/jfdcb -- Thanks, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.6.1/344 - Release Date: 5/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
