Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha -- Reality or Hype?
I am having a similar doubt here as well, is Jatropha a reality? Indeed it is a living tree, even I had one germinated from seed as a pot plant. But is it a reality? What make it better then the more productive oil palm if it still need fertilizer and irrigation to thrive? Or course, Jatropha can thrive on more soil then oil palm, and perhaps can better adapt as claimed. And then rather then planting it in marginal land, there wont be enough marginal land and if the demand is high, the lesser demand, such as less profitable and labor intensive vegetable land, will be replaced with Jatropha, or just got eaten by large plantation. The biggest doubt in my mind is Jatropha is not been throughoutly studied like soy bean, maize, oil palm, etc. There is no high yield hybrid avalable but most are germinated from regular seeds and hence the quality may differ. This will make unpredictable return for an investment, which is bad. Whats worst is the waste of farmland into some worthless venture. Furthermore, it is labor intensive, no mechanized harvesting available. I believe that Jatropha can be survive in US in the more arid area. And for maximum output, irrigation will be provided. But I strongly doubt it will ever landed in USA as labor cost a bomb there. 1/2 cent. Regards Rexis On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: If reality, can it be done in the US or only developing nations? I wonder what you're talking about? Jatropha is certainly a reality, it's something that exists, it's not just hype, it's a tree. So? There's a lot of information on jatropha in the archives. Try this, eg: Jatropha - the agrofuel of the poor? (160 kb) http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=480 GRAIN, July 2007 Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080827/4db31d5c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor
Thx keith I missed out the castor oil discussion last time. Hello REXIS. The castor oil is highly questionable as a raw material for biodiesel production due to two important issues:: 1) The biodiesel from castor oil will have a too high viscosity well outside the specs. 2) The fatty acids of castor oil are very special and polymerize easily forming heavier compounds while releasing water. Unsuitable ? Yes. 0) Even cow fat can be made into biodiesel 1) They can process semi solid crude palm oil into biodiesel that can widthstand cold climate, perhaps we just need a little bit more process to work out the castor oil? But as I know, castor oil can stand extremely low temperature down to 15 degree C, this is a good properties. 2) What does this means? Shorter shelf life? Any reference? Are you sure it's wasteland? I think land is in short supply in India, any land. It has marketed as such tat many lands in India are arid, no agricultural value and idle. The idea is to cover all those so called unproductive land with Jatropha and then bring profit to rural people. But IMHO, at the moment, with the quotes in Keith's reply, the most who profit most is those Jatropha seeds supplier. A few months back, I saw a company promoting Jatropha in some agri fair, quoting RM1500 for each kg of seeds! And no kidding, people are rushing into planting Jatropha now even in Malaysia, without even properly understand the plant. You miss a major disadvantage, that the oilseed cake left after extraction is toxic and cannot be fed to livestock. That is almost always downplayed by jatropha fans, but it can seriously affect the economics of using jatropha as a biodiesel feedstock. Castor seedcake has 3-5% of ricin by weight, but I read about that it is possible to remove the toxin and make the cake into animal feed. Maybe they can do the same to Jatropha seed cake, like roast it or something. ther disadvantages are that it's difficult to extract the seed, and difficult to extract the oil from the seed. Its none the less extremely labourious to harvest the fruit, especially when the plants are too tall. In terms of extrating the oil from seed, how is it if compare to rapeseed? I have never touch a Jatropha seed before, so no idea how the physical properties is, but according to web picture, it looks like laychi seed and hardy. Castor seed, aka castor bean, lately I had encountered a few wild Castor Plant(and hence this discussion) and has took back some of its fruits. The castor seeds is more like oil sap, you can squezz it easily by hand, and then you can literally press the oil out with your fingers(wash your hand after doing so). Jatropha has it's place as an oil crop nonetheless, and so does castor oil, despite their disadvantages, but it depends on the place, on the local circumstances. Neither is likely to be a sole solution, but one of a range of solutions. So the idea is to produce a local renewable oil, whats the point to import biodiesel? You still depend on others. I always think that the idea of producing highly valuable biofuel and run them in fuel guzzler with a ruthless driver is absurd. Why not improve the vehicle and the people first. See, E85 sport car won a race, but is there a point? That your 6.0 V12 can be green? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Best before date
Keith, I have received a curious attachment under your email. Maybe you should do some virus scan or someone just pretended as you. It is advised that we mainly use text and links to communicate here, not attachment! Damn worms :) Rgds Esmond ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor
I had did some web study on Castor and Jatropha. Jatropha, being promoted as the perfect biodiesel crop by India, is receiving international highlights and many investors are interested or even start investing in planting this crop. This may spoil the original intension of promoting Jatropha, when large forest was cleared again to make way for Jatropha plantation rather then planting them on the wasteland or marginal land where india planned to do. Castor, the beautiful yet deadly seeds of castor, has been long used as an non edible oil source by mankind, as well as in other industrial application like paint, nylon, food addictive, lubricant, etc. And castor oil is a unuqie oil that it can completely dissolve in alcohol(not too sure what that means, no catalyst needed?). Our focus here is obviously biofuel. About which is the better choice for biodiesel. Similarity: - drought resistance - oily seeds sitable for fuel purpose - seed cake made an excellence manure - poisonious and therefore producing non eatable oil - a kind of weed Jatropha advantage - it is said that Jatropha would trive on all kind of soil even rocky soil - Higher oil yield - it can improve the soil quality Jatropha disadvantage - since it is relatively new crop therefore it was not well understood, and inaccurate yield figure estimation may harm profit, more research and real data required - Jatropha is suitable for India where large area of their land consist of arid wasteland, but may not be suitable to other country like those with lots of rain forest. Castor advantage - Castor oil is one of the oldest traded goods, mankind has been trading castor oil since a few thousand years ago - Castor oil has a lot of industrial usage, therefore a market is already exsistance, thou limited - Since it was cultivated before in commercial plantation, its biology is well understood, and high yield hybrid is available - Castor can be found in medium climate area as an annual crop or in tropical area as a small tree - faster oil yield and long term yield is possible for tropical/warm area Castor disadvantage - It is said that castor will exhaust the soil quickly, fertilizer required to maintain a large castor plantation for a reasonable yield, but castor can often been seen as weed growing without attension, therefore it is possible to plant it as marginal plant in unattended idle area. - it notorious poison is feared by the public, perhaps a research on castor poison(ricin) remedy is necessary. I do not have a conclusion currently, but as you can see, I am trying to open up Castor as an extra option here. Discussion: - Cultivation requirement: Jatropha maybe able to trive on most kind of soil, but I believe that to yield reasonable harvest, irrigation and fertilizer still required. Castor, while the cultivation requirement is better understood then Jatropha, it is still unknown about which one gets better yield if left unattended in a poor condition area, it is possible that each of them will exceed another under specific senarior, intercropping of castor and jatropha also an interesting subject. - Harvesting: it seems like it is more labourious to harvest Jatropha, which its yield grow as scattered fruit, yes, olive harvester can be modified to harvest Jatropha but it will involved high capital. Castor seem to be easier to harvest as its yeild made of a branch of fruit, worker can just cut the whole branch at once. - Toxicity: It seems that castor seeds are much more deadly then Jatropha, its toxic, which was being used in assasination, implies that it is extremely deadly and no remedy avaibale; however castor oil is perfectly harmless due to the fact that the toxic is only water soluble not oil soluble. Jatropha, even though toxic, in some case, was roasted and being eaten dangerously, but note that Jatropha toxic is deadly as well can kill a person by a 5-6 seeds, I am unable to find more articles about its toxicity and remedy about Jatropha here. Both plant is said can be detoxify by simply heating it and thurs destroying the toxic protein, confirmation needed here thou. - Cost: this is also a main factor, the lower input with higher outcome is desired. Any other topics are welcome. Just my 1/2 cents, top up or add on are most welcome. Regards Rexis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] diesel tree
smell like a hoax to me, at least they can provide a picture of the trees or show a seed or two. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Singapore Biodiesel
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/5/18/asia/14275335sec=asia ---Biodiesel from kitchen A LOCAL entrepreneur has come up with a way to run diesel-powered cars on biodiesel made out of used cooking oil, and plans to start selling it next month. Kom Mam Sun has run his Nissan truck for 18 months on biodiesel, an environmentally-friendly fuel. No modifications to the vehicle were necessary, he said, and his truck has passed the Land Transport Authority emissions test without a hitch. In fact, he says, a few small contractors – those running lorries, dumpers, generators and construction site equipment – are already using the product. Now, Kom has built a plant at Tuas which can produce around 1,500 tonnes of biodiesel a month, and is ready to sell the fuel to customers interested in running "cleaner" vehicles. The amount is enough to fill up more than 30,000 small lorries. Kom's S$600,000 (RM1.37mil) plant in Tuas will be making the fuel out of 200 tonnes of raw material – used cooking oil from restaurants which he buys from collectors. His company Biofuel Research (www.biofuel.sg) would be the first in Singapore to mass-produce biodiesel from used cooking oil, he said. Biodiesel is emerging as an alternative fuel for diesel-powered vehicles, which then emit less toxins or pollutants that create smog. Global demand for this greener fuel is expected to touch 10.5 million tonnes in the next few years, as escalating oil prices fuel worldwide interest in alternative energy. Kom says his company's product is "cleaner" than most other forms of biodiesel. The fuel, used extensively in the United States and Europe, is usually combined with diesel. But Biofuel Research's product is not mixed with any mineral diesel, making it a totally sulphur-free product, and thus less polluting to the environment. As for price, Kom said that he was buying used oil at 50-60 cents (RM1.14 to RM1.37) per litre, and planned to sell the finished product well below the current pump price for diesel, which is about S$1.30 (RM2.97) per litre. – The Straits Times / Asia News Network ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] B100 and synthetic seals
B100 is known to have a solvent effect against natural rubber parts of the engine, mostly seals like fuel pump seal so we might need to change those parts into synthetic rubber seal. But synthetic rubber is a product of petroleum. How is this work out to be sustainable? Is there a truely 100% renewable engines and fuel? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Small oil press
Sound like he just wanna sell his product. And wishfully hope that we can help him to boost his sale.Have we even see JourneyToForever complaining their effort spent to collect, make and test biodiesel, effort to support a website and a mailling list? Complaining about no big institude, no public money supporting them? And saying anything like all biodiesel processors are so expensive, they goes in millions of dollar? And charging us any penny for us to access on any biodiesel recipe or many other wonderful thing? No at all! There is just a donate button on the site, and everything else is free, not even a pop up banner! Well done. Regards,Rexis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] What is sustainable?
What is sustainable? There are voices saying Malaysia and Indonesia oil palm plantation are not sustainable, and therefore the biodiesel they made are no point at all. I am very curious, how sustainable could a plantation be? Is there a way of sustainable plantation? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Grass Bioenergy
Waste in whose opinion? Unoccupied by whom? The land and whateverlives on it isn't just there for us to use or waste as we might seefit. If it has grass growing on it then it's a part of the biosphereas much as you are. Sure, harvest the grass, but make sure you do whatever's necessary to maintain the soil life and the soil cover oryou'll kill that land. The point of using biofuels is that they'resupposed to be sustainable, so even with so-called waste land it hasto be done in a sustainable way. Opps, inappropriate words i used. Should be idle lands. I doubt many of the available biofuels for sale are sustainable, maybe renewable but not too sure about sustainablility.I somehow disagree that we human being as a part of the biosphere, most human have to live in their own human biosphere where they will remove everything that irritates them. If you throw a city person into a jungle, how long he could survive! Just like you put a wild animal in the middle of the city. Most of us are not that compatible with the nature. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Grass Bioenergy
I have yet to go thru the entire website but i found that this is very interesting!Actually there are already plans to cultivate grass as energy fuel. But dedicated cultivation is not always the best solution. I mean, if we can simply harvest grass from waste land or unoccupied land, that will be making good use of waste! http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/15235/story.htmWe should discuss in using grass as biofuel here. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com
Why is it so secret? Why not just tell everyone what is in this diesel addictive? This is another put-in-the-magic-potion-and-it-will-works thing. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A Carbon Cloud Hangs Over Green Fuel
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060205/BUSINESS04/602050315/1033 Ethanol plant counts on coal for power The change will cost less than natural gas, but some complain that coal isn't renewable. JERRY PERKINS REGISTER FARM EDITOR February 5, 2006 Goldfield, Ia. — Central Iowa Renewable Energy's new ethanol dry mill plant is the first one using coal as its source of power.Substituting cheap coal for more expensive natural gas will save the ethanol plant about $1 million a month based on the current difference between the price of coal and that of natural gas, said Brad Davis, general manager of Gold Eagle Cooperative, which was instrumental in building the plant.After corn, energy is the second-largest expense of running an ethanol plant.New technology has taken much of the pollution out of burning coal, said Valerie Reed of the U.S. Department of Energy.But using biomass energy sources like switchgrass or corn stalks would be a much better way to produce ethanol, said Robert Brown, director of Iowa State University's office of biorenewables programs. Using coal could alienate environmentalists who now support ethanol as an oxygen-enhancing fuel that helps fight global warming, he said.If a significant amount of energy used to make ethanol is not renewable, then ethanol is not a truly renewable fuel, Brown said. When we use coal, we're moving in the wrong direction.Ethanol plants are popping up like mushrooms in Iowa, the No. 1 state in ethanol production.There are 21 plants in Iowa making ethanol, and another five are scheduled to come online this year, said Lucy Norton of the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association.Demand for the gasoline additive and substitute is growing rapidly. The reasons: The national energy policy aims to replace foreign petroleum with domestically produced fuel. Air-quality concerns can be eased by ethanol, and tax breaks make the corn-based fuel cost-competitive.President Bush said in the State of the Union speech that the United States needs to find a way to replace foreign petroleum with domestically produced ethanol.With promise like that, there is a danger that ethanol plants will be overbuilt and excessive supplies will drag the industry down.Using coal to cut costs, said Davis, might mean the difference between success and failure for the Goldfield ethanol plant.We want to have the lowest cost of production so we can be the last man standing, Davis said. Reed, who works in the biomass program at the U.S. Energy Department in Washington, D.C., said the technology to use biomass crops for energy will be ready in about a decade.If Goldfield and the other ethanol plants using clean coal technology prove it can work, then we can integrate coal and biomass, Reed said. Our goal is to produce ethanol so it is cost-effective with petroleum.Reid Detchon of the Energy Future Coalition — which seeks to bridge differences between business, labor and environmental groups on energy policy — said coal can serve as a temporary energy source until other, more renewable and environmentally benign sources are developed.Biomass crops, methane from livestock manure or wood chips all are being explored by the ethanol industry as possible power sources, he said.The use of coal could just be a temporary step, Detchon said.Reed said advances in clean coal technology have significantly cut air emissions. With the current cost of natural gas, coal now stacks up very well, she said. The challenge of adopting the new clean coal technology was cost. With higher natural gas prices, clean coal technology is now competitive.Brown said the same thing could happen when technological breakthroughs make burning biomass crops more competitive economically.The Goldfield plant has met all air emission requirements in its first month of operation, said David Vander Griend of ICM Inc., the Wichita, Kan., engineering company that designed the coal-fired system.You're burning 12 semi-truckloads of coal a day and you're getting four semi-truck loads of emissions a year, Vander Griend said.Davis said after a month of operation, the coal-burning system is still being massaged, but air monitoring equipment at the plant shows that emissions are less than projected.I'm amazed, he said. Nothing comes out of the stacks except a vapor cloud.Vander Griend said another advantage of a coal-fired ethanol plant is that it uses domestically produced coal instead of imported natural gas. That helps cut the U.S. dependence on foreign energy, he said, just like ethanol made in the United States replaces petroleum from abroad.The coal that powers the Goldfield ethanol plant comes from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and is purchased from Alliant Energy. Davis declined to say what Central Iowa Renewable Energy is paying for its coal, but I can easily say that coal is four to six times cheaper than natural gas.Central Iowa Renewable Energy uses 300 tons of coal a day to
Re: [Biofuel] Small oil press
Interesting oil press that keeps me thinking.Seed -oil press- oil + cakeoil -biodiesel processor- fuel(biodiesel)cake -digester- fuel(methane) + digested cakedigested cake -vermicompost- fertilizer + protein(worm) feed worm/cake/digested cake to chickenhow many products we have above? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. votes against 132 nations on genetically engineered food
We are not entitled to know what are we eating, what a joke. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Military Madness: How About a Little Common Sense?
Where do those money come from? $600 billion a year is pretty insane, each americans from new born babies to dying old people are paying 2000 US dollar just to let your country to continue bullying smaller nations while paying 33 bucks in RD of renewable energy. Oww, how to define common sense? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Wet Composting
I wish to breed some worms too but my sister, mum, and girl friend surely do not like to have any red worms in the house! ;-) Wait till i got my own place.I used to have a box of earthworms, more like pets although i am planning to do vermiculture. I dug them out from my garden(i used to have a garden before i moved into my current apartment), roughly 5 of them, i think only 2 were matured worm and the rest were babies. Over 3 months, the babies all grown up and i found worm capsules. After 3 more months, tiny worms clawing all around the box and some wonder out of the box and got dried up(poor worms). Well, all these was before my mum come and visit me. Oww, can do compost on a pile that small? Gonna try it someday, meanwhile later i will go to pet shop and get some air tubes for my methane test. Ohh, and of course, some banana too.Rexis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
On 3/10/06, Samira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So where do they plan to find 500,000t of biodiesel to make the B5 blend? i'm stumped. I recalled that they only mentioned that they can save 500,000t of diesel by mandating B5 in the country, didnt mentioned about where to get this 500,000t thou. Malaysia is producing some 15 million tons of palm oil in year 2005. http://econ.mpob.gov.my/economy/su_review2005.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Wet Composting
Mainly due that that there is a number of near by shoplet out there serving good milk tea or pulled tea (sth' like milk tea shake) so i figure that they might have some good supply of tea ground. I am trying to make a compact compost pile becoz my space is limited and i do not have a garden, bubbling air thru it will perhaps hopefully speed up the process. I shall figure out some other way thou, while dispose of my original design of bubbling aquarium of soaked compost. Btw, i am trying to do some methane production experiment, basically is put some banana peel in an air tight bottle and try to collect the gas generated and see if it burns. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
There is currently no new plans for more biodiesel refinary for local use as i know.What is in their eye is only business sense, ie to export to europe where the needs for biodiesel is bigger. Anything related to environment or cleaner is simple just part of their advertisement technique. Hopefully that someone did an environmental inpact study to those biorefinary so we wont end up in polluted river or ground water etc. Actually gov plan is to mandate B5 in 2008:http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/10/malaysia_to_man.htmlI really hope this is not a talk-for-fun-only and wish to see action ASAP. But on the other way, diesel vehicles is taxed many times more then gasoline vehicles in malaysia here. It is rediculous to own and maintance a diesel car. Plus there is not many small diesel available in malaysia. If theres any, the extra price will turn you away. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Re: [Bioenergy] Oil palm industry nuking tropical forests
They will do whatever that makes business sense, if sustainable palm oil is what europe wanted that sustainable palm oil they will try to make. Otherwise, they will clear as much forest as possible to make way for more oil palm estate. Other then making more way by clearing rain forest they should focus on available oil palm estate. Including replanting of low production old oil palms, enhanced harvesting technique, biotechnology, etc etc... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Wet Composting
Composting required aerobic condition and well balanced C-N ratio to carry out. And require active turning the compost pile to mix in oxygen and fresh organic material to ensure a complete reaction. If compost too wet and soak in water will turn the pile into anaerobic compost which result in none complete and smelly compost. But how about this one? If i soak a lot of organic material in water, bubble air thru the water, and perhaps keep it warm at 35 C. Will it create any compost in the end? In theory the bacterial should get enough oxygen to undergo aerobic reaction. And what is tea bag's CN ratio? I plan to collect lots of tea grounds to do compost, perhaps i will get it from restaurants or coffee shops. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
I am from Malaysia as well, but i am not really too sure about how the palm oil biodiesel is progressing. It is said that gov is going to mandate a B5 in 2007 but no news ever since.Anyone can enlighten me with any useful information? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush's state of the Union speech
Wow, applause, applause! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
So many wargames people playing and feel fun, superweapon nuke shoot like no tomorrow. Maybe cybergames is the thing to save the world, so people will only do virtual war, and then the real war never happen.Very true the deadliest war weapon is for peace, and very true that when every single life on this planet is eliminated. And then the real peace will arrive - just like Mars, no life, no water, nothing. Peace, is just like a joke. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Well, actually we dont have to worry about aftermath of a nuclear war, because we wont be there to worry about if there is a nuclear war happened.I just wish that if there is ever a nuclear war, I will have a clear view to see the beautiful firework show of giant fireball and mushroom before the heat wave cooked me into radioactive dust. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nikola Tesla, The Master of Lightning
I remain skeptical as well to tesla's electric car. What a different world it would become if this was true. But I believe it is more like a myth then fact. This is just like what you see in the following site: http://www.fuellesspower.com/ (And before you believe in anything, refer following) http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/newclaims/rickharrison/vortex_dc_motor.htm When Tesla's death FBI clean up the hotel room he stayed and his papers were declared to be top secrete. It is said that he is researching some kind of weapon that will make all kind of air force obsolete. Truth is never known. More about Tesla: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla Yeah, about microwave power transmission, i always wanted to ask: are they harmful to birds? :p (birds cooked by flying thru the beam) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Nikola Tesla, The Master of Lightning
http://www.uncletaz.com/library/scimath/tesla/teslacar.html Facinating, we had an era of electric car in the pass. Nikola Tesla is the reason we are using AC power today. He invented an electric car power source that require no charging and can power an 80hp car to 90 mph. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pvc question
i recalled that in the journeytoforever website they did try washing biodiesel with a soda bottle (1.5L), i guess that plastic is similar to PVC plastic. So thats mean should be ok. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems
Cant blame him, not everyone google the net for Solar Panel or Power Efficiency. I am interested however, to know what kind of research he saw. M, change the white house roof top to solar panel is a good idea. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Google laugh
hah, wonder why most people disagree him y still majority people vote him? Perhaps they dont have better choice. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] copyright theft
Thief! Argh Wonder would any idiots buy any links from him.. But the way, i would like to thank journeytoforever.org for providing such invaluable information freely. I have learned much reading the info within. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] the power of spin - harnessing artificial tornadoes as anenergy source
There is a theory to create a controlled artificial tornado within a tornado tower to turn turbines of power generators to generate enormous electricity. All we need to do is to create all sort of condition that will create a tornado inside the tower. That might lead to a gigantic man-made building with a mile tall tower. Some atchitecture difficulty and financing problem here of course. But to use wind turbines to suck hurricanes off shore... i recommend planting more trees and perhaps create man made island that plant more trees. Cheers Rexis On 10/1/05, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps instead of direct harnessing, which could definitely be bad, maybe we could instead work on hurricane proof wind turbines on flats or platforms just offshore? Design them to roll with the punch and operate at high speeds, to suck energy out of the winds just before the storm makes landfall and reduce it's power just before it hits? That'd probably be environmentally better than forcing all that heat to stay in the Equatorial regions, but still reduce the damage it's going to do when it moves. Just a thought. -K On 9/30/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If man could harness some of the energy of storms, the storms probably wouldnot be as bad.Maybe the storms are as bad as they need to be.Keith ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel Consumption Reduction Tips (was Sept 1 declared no buy gas day)
awesome tips, all of them straight to the point, walking and bicycling all surely the most obvious way to save the planet! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Steam catapult assisted take off
Interesting topic in a biodiesel list :) Aircraft carrier steam catapult, usually powered by their own nuclear reactor. This is mainly for assisting their aircrafts to take off in a much shorter distance. To take off, the operator on board need to know the types of aircraft taking off and the weight of the aircraft, also perhaps windspeed and direction. With this calculations the operators will know how much force is needed to assist the aircraft to take off. After a final check, the pilot increases the aircraft engines to full power. When the engines are steady at full power, the catapult is fired. A 60,000-pound aircraft can reach speeds in excess of 150 mph in less than two seconds with the assistance of steam catapult. - http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cv.htm You can read about take off speed of different commercial aircraft here. http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/performance/q0088.shtml for example a boeing 747 weight 800,000 lb would need 180 mph to take off. Regards Rexis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril
Even national geographic predicted that a hurricane in New Orleans will be devastating one whole damn year ago. Unfortunately most people only watch it like watching other TV drama. And i doubt that guy in charge in white house ever watch any national geographic. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Malaysia Investing in Biodiesel plants
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/09/malaysia_invest.html#more A good start for Malaysia! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Does anyone distill ethanol here?
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_drane.html and more...basically i never tried any ethanol fuel myself, but i believe there must be someone out there in this mailist that do. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] advancement of car technology for 1
I once has an idea of a stirling engined car, this car store hot water (or hot molten salt) in an insulated tank or a big Termos flask. The stirling engine will utilize the heat stored and convert it to mobility. And the fuel bar will only show the temprerature inside the insulated tank... To refill, simply heat up your insulated tank content. The idea sounds fun and interesting. But yet, this is just more like a fantasy, you need a noble price to solve the technical difficulties behind. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can this man save the world? (Hydrogen injection)
A current is run from the car battery through the liquid. This process of electrolysis creates hydrogen and oxygen gases which are then fed into the engine's intake manifold where they mix with the gasoline vapours. facts: - Electrolysis produce hydrogen and oxygen - Electrolysis need current to work - Battery can generate current Money from my wallet is paid to Ferrari. This purchasing process enable me to own an Enzo. Which is delivered via cargo transport and delivered me overnight. facts: - You can purchase a Ferrari - You need money to complete a purchasing process - Your wallet have money Why: - I still dont have a drink-fuel-like-toilet-flush-water Enzo? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can this man save the world? (Hydrogen injection)
Most internal combustion engines operate at about 35 per cent efficiency. This means that only 35 per cent of the fuel is fully burned. The rest either turns to carbon corroding the engine or goes out the exhaust pipe as greenhouse gases. Wow, according to this in theory if we make a 100% efficient internal combustion engine then we will have a car with zero greenhouse gases emission and zero carbon corroding to the engine! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The biofuel puzzle
Hi everyone, New here, greetings. :D I hv been doing some readings regarding energy and fuel. And i find this biofuel stuff very interesting. And so i follow the topic for sometime. Dig into clean efficient performance diesel engines, even pick my favourite model of vehicle i gonna get someday(the usual day dreaming before someone else shout to mego back to work~). And then i come to this point, where i found that you will void your warrenty if you put so and so biodiesel into your car, especially most car only allow up to B5. And even more do not recommend fatty acid into your tank, and dont even have any automaker(as i know) have any progress in researching a better biodiesel engine(eg, toyota focus on synergy drive, merc doing syndiesel research, BMW doing their H2 car etc). And then i have lots of doubts, is Biodiesel harmful? Will they destroy my commonrail injection system? Will they melt something inside the engine? will i ever have cheap biodiesel to refuel? etc etc. I start getting disappointed, for what i have admire so much in, is just some, erm, they are not usable in the end. And then i start notice one thing. The fuel makers always say their fuel is pretty darn good, hydrogen researcher keep hightlighting hydrogen contain more energy then a mass equivalent of gasoline, FT syndiesel reaearcher advertising how clean their diesel is and how available their biomass feedstock is, some also saying how good is ethanol is, and of course, how delicious is biodiesel is compare to yucky dinodiesel. Even heard claims about how unsustainable biodiesel is and how unsustainable organic farming is(read that on a agriculture magazine i brought), saying that to feed the world we will need to clear all the forest and jungle if we want to do 100% organic farming(btw, why those organic vege always smaller anyway, i read people can plant giant tomato with organic fertilizer), so and so. (therefore we should all eat GM maize that contain scorpion DNA? Dont think anyone will like it) And then i realised one thing, we simply cannot believe in everything we come into. Of course advertiser will want you to believe in what they want you to believe in. The truth, is always hidden or negleted. We are just doing what we think is correct. The true final answer to biofuel, i am still searching. Lately, wow, gas prices are soaring(well in malaysia here still lucky thou, we are 'only' have some 10 cents price rise to RM1.62 per liter, note: RM3.79 =~ USD1). But i am happy for this, some might think i am sick, some might share my opinion. Coz, fossile fuel price up means biofuels prices more competitive. They are only digging themselves a grave if the big oily people love frying the oil prices. Cheers. Regards. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MEPs caught up in hydrogen hype?
When i was highschool, i was worrying that if all vehicle burning hydrogen and take oxygen from our atmosphere, we will all run out of oxygen!(since plants only take in CO2 and release O2) Electrolysis will produce hydrogen and oxygen also, but if we all lack of oxygen then the oxygen produced will all be bottled and sold for more profit! No more free air we have! What a childish mind i had, i was young thou, but this still preventing me from believing in any hydrogen economy thing. Especially reading a lot regarding this unpractical technology talking about how bad it is. But using hydrogen as an energy source to replace the current world demand of energy will need a massive RD effort andmajor investment. from the article you posted. It feel like saying to live forever you must replace your meat and bones with cyborg parts and seal your brain in a titanium case, but we will need a massive RD effort and major investment to make this happen. Cheers Regards On 9/16/05, Frantz DESPREZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.euractiv.com/Article?_lang=ENtcmuri=tcm:29-144195-16type=NewsSeveral MEPs called on 12 September for a fundamental shift away from the oil era into the green hydrogen economy. But is their initiativebased on science or inspired by political hype?FD___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [ARTICLE] Organic vs. conventional farming: yields, external costs
Love the idea of small organic farms, love the idea of square foot farm, disagree to dedicated big farms which only produce one crop, hate to visit petro station, love bugs, love plants. love to try out compost(no way at 11th floor apartment which im staying now, last time tried to pile up a small hill of chopped grass in front of my house garden before the flood has brought everything almost into my house, good idea to use a barrel :-( ) did some vermiculture(better known as vermi-pet-ture, they are more like pets, but 6 earthworms-all digged out from garden soil successfull breed to 10s of worms in 6 months, before the container is discovered by mum :-/, those earthwormlings were then 'freed' nearby my home on a rich soil - hopefully they will find a new home there) Thanks for the information, it is very useful. Yet to carefully go thru it. On 9/17/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello DougIn response to one of Rexis Tree's questions.Biofuel may have a problem with competition for land with food andwildlife,See: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg18745.htmlRe: Biofuels hold key to future of British farminghttp://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg48264.html How much fuel can we grow?but I don't think that we need fear lower yields with organicfarming.Doug WoodardSt. Catharines, OntarioI think this is rather a better source than David Pimenthal [sic]: http://journeytoforever.org/garden_organiccase.htmlThe case for organicshttp://journeytoforever.org/garden.html Organic gardeninghttp://journeytoforever.org/garden_organic.htmlWhy organic?http://journeytoforever.org/farm.html Small farmsBest wishesKeith-- Forwarded message --The Institute of Science in Society: Science SocietySustainability http://www.i-sis.org.ukGeneral Enquiries[EMAIL PROTECTED]Website/Mailing List[EMAIL PROTECTED] ISIS Director[EMAIL PROTECTED]This article can be found on the I-SIS website athttp://www.i-sis.org.uk/OBCA.php ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] advancement of car technology
This is simply sad, very sad. Absolutely we have the technology, this is as far as the imanagination goes. Yeah we can design a metro city with zero highways, zero emission, railway only, clean and green city, well, in SimCity. Too bad those in charged people never willing to play the real Sim nicely, nor they understand anything nicely. Nature will certainly balance everything back. Now we get a almost zero emission new orleans after Katrina's rampage, just because everything is destroyed. That's very sad. On 9/17/05, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a funny (but I think pretty damning too) editorial on how whatis considered a car with good gas mileage today, is no better thanwhat was possible 30 years ago. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2005/09/16/notes091605.DTLnl=fix___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
